The Rise, and Fall, and Rise Again of Polyester
April 21, 2022 4:45 PM Subscribe
Somehow, polyester went from being the world’s most hated fabrics to one of its favorites. It reinvented itself thanks to advances in materials science, and did it so successfully that many people don’t even realize they’re wearing polyester today.
How Polyester Bounced Back
But that's my bias...
I see what you did there.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:11 PM on April 21, 2022 [39 favorites]
I see what you did there.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:11 PM on April 21, 2022 [39 favorites]
Watching the dry cleaner do it
Like Midas in a polyester suit
It's all luck
Who knew Patagonia was so influential in clothing evolution? Synchilla, polar fleece, Capilene - all your camping clothes. Very interesting stuff.
posted by Bee'sWing at 5:12 PM on April 21, 2022 [6 favorites]
Like Midas in a polyester suit
It's all luck
Who knew Patagonia was so influential in clothing evolution? Synchilla, polar fleece, Capilene - all your camping clothes. Very interesting stuff.
posted by Bee'sWing at 5:12 PM on April 21, 2022 [6 favorites]
We love polyester so much that we are adding it to the food chain. (Which is mentioned in the linked article, but way down at the bottom.)
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 5:18 PM on April 21, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 5:18 PM on April 21, 2022 [7 favorites]
This tells a rather lopsided story about the use of synthetics in the outdoor industry that completely ignores the resurgence in the last couple decades of merino wool, plus the continued use of down and to a lesser degree silk. Contrary to what this article suggests, wool and down are very popular among outdoor folks and certainly haven't been replaced by synthetics. It's odd to talk about fleece and not talk about how fleece has declined in popularity significantly in recent decades in the outdoor industry (though soft shell garments have brought fleece back to some degree, under a different name).
Patagonia does their own thing, but many other outdoor brands are not as dedicated to synthetics as they are. Even Patagonia still sells plenty of cotton and down. Synthetic fabrics certainly have their place, but so do natural fibres.
posted by ssg at 5:19 PM on April 21, 2022 [21 favorites]
Patagonia does their own thing, but many other outdoor brands are not as dedicated to synthetics as they are. Even Patagonia still sells plenty of cotton and down. Synthetic fabrics certainly have their place, but so do natural fibres.
posted by ssg at 5:19 PM on April 21, 2022 [21 favorites]
I've got a cycling baselayer that is super thin and light but also easily the warmest thing I own. It isn't Polartec but it is some kind of polyblend. I usually can't wear it for cycling because I end up getting too hot although for those days that are cold enough and I'm still riding it is amazing. During the summer my family is in dri-fit type clothes pretty much all the time.
The rest of the time it's all cotton and wool but for anything where I'll be active I'll likely be wearing polyester.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 5:36 PM on April 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
The rest of the time it's all cotton and wool but for anything where I'll be active I'll likely be wearing polyester.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 5:36 PM on April 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
But that's my bias...
I was honestly just looking up the etymology of 'bias', wondering if it maybe came first from textiles. It's a little unclear, the earliest senses seem to be from a notion of diagonal, askew, against the grain; that could still involve early fabric usage but also maybe rows of grain. Also something about a game with bowls and balls.
Now I'm wondering the long chains in polyesters also have their own grains and biases...
posted by SaltySalticid at 6:01 PM on April 21, 2022 [4 favorites]
I was honestly just looking up the etymology of 'bias', wondering if it maybe came first from textiles. It's a little unclear, the earliest senses seem to be from a notion of diagonal, askew, against the grain; that could still involve early fabric usage but also maybe rows of grain. Also something about a game with bowls and balls.
Now I'm wondering the long chains in polyesters also have their own grains and biases...
posted by SaltySalticid at 6:01 PM on April 21, 2022 [4 favorites]
> Half the fun of sewing clothes is finding really awesome fabrics, which is frustratingly difficult here in the US, especially for garment fabrics.
My COVID project was learning how to use the serger someone gave me in early 2020. I figured out how to make soft pants and hoodies, but yeah: finding good fabrics is so tricky, especially because I usually have to get them on-line (local fabric stores have a limited selection of knits).
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:22 PM on April 21, 2022
My COVID project was learning how to use the serger someone gave me in early 2020. I figured out how to make soft pants and hoodies, but yeah: finding good fabrics is so tricky, especially because I usually have to get them on-line (local fabric stores have a limited selection of knits).
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:22 PM on April 21, 2022
I thought the end of this article was very salesy. They describe synthetic recycling and fiber recapture from washing machines as something that can happen, for example, and didn't clarify that it does happen now. And I don't see any discussion of "fast fashion" which has to have had something to do with the growth of synthetic textiles over the last couple decades-- which is its own big problem in textile waste over and above recycling the actual fibers.
But otherwise a pretty interesting article. I'd like to know more about preservation-- dealing with how textiles rot was an area of study for me in my previous career and I'm still kind of fascinated.
posted by blnkfrnk at 6:22 PM on April 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
But otherwise a pretty interesting article. I'd like to know more about preservation-- dealing with how textiles rot was an area of study for me in my previous career and I'm still kind of fascinated.
posted by blnkfrnk at 6:22 PM on April 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
I like the bit about getting wildly different functions from polyester by changing the fiber's cross-section without changing the molecule itself. Maybe someone will come up with a metamaterial approach that gives us pure polyester with the stretch and recovery we currently get by blending in elastane.
Although possibly polyester pollution wouldn't mostly be solved by high recycling rates, so replacing blends with pure spandex wouldn't even theoretically help.
I thought the end of this article was very salesy.
Very Reason and The Economist; mentions the problems but has a very business-as-usual frame on what solutions might be imagined.
posted by clew at 6:34 PM on April 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
Although possibly polyester pollution wouldn't mostly be solved by high recycling rates, so replacing blends with pure spandex wouldn't even theoretically help.
I thought the end of this article was very salesy.
Very Reason and The Economist; mentions the problems but has a very business-as-usual frame on what solutions might be imagined.
posted by clew at 6:34 PM on April 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
Why no mention of John Waters in the the article?
posted by TedW at 6:48 PM on April 21, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by TedW at 6:48 PM on April 21, 2022 [4 favorites]
This tells a rather lopsided story about the use of synthetics in the outdoor industry that completely ignores the resurgence in the last couple decades of merino wool, plus the continued use of down and to a lesser degree silk.Yeah, I think the omission of the rise of Smartwool, Icebreaker, Ibex, etc. is a weird miss in this article, but I can see how it's less of a history lesson about the recent evolution of the outdoor clothing industry to a persuasion essay rehabilitating our perception of polyester. In this case, talking about wool would be a distraction to their bias.
Also, the author is Virginia Postrel, who used to be editor in chief of Reason in the 90's and has often wrote about the economics of fashion and glamor, so this isn't a surprise.
I feel like there are three camps of outdoor clothing aesthetic.
1. REI member - polyester, fleece, high tech, high sheen clothing with an emphasis on breathability, affordability, and lightweight, potentially willing to trade on durability; and willing to look like An Outdoors Enthusiast
2. Traditionalist - Americana workwear with heavy use of flannel (which can have polyester), cotton, canvas and chunky wool. Emphasis on vintage appearance and durability at the cost of more weight. Willing to look like a lumberjack.
3. Merino Lover - Sleek silhouettes with emphasis on overlapping thin wool layers. Between 1 & 2 on the durability/weight tradeoff as well as traditional vs high-tech appearance, but more expensive than either. Everyone looks like a jogger or yoga practitioner who just happened to run off into the mountains.
But of course, they're all dwarfed by the fourth aesthetic, the Day Tripper - jeans, running shoes, sweaty t-shirt. The others look at them as amateurs, but they're actually locals who live within 20 minutes of the trailhead and they come out here all the time to get some exercise and this outfit has been fine for the last decade, thank you very much.
posted by bl1nk at 6:57 PM on April 21, 2022 [39 favorites]
I'd love to wear more wool when active, but it just seems inferior to poly in too many ways. I sweat buckets and wool turns into a heavy mess. It doesn't reek like poly does over the long term, but when it's wet it does smell like a wet dog. And wool's durability seems questionable - my irregularly worn wool base layers develop and grow huge holes, but none of my poly stuff seems to die (other than the prints).
I've run a bunch in cotton. It seems fine as long as the temperature stays high, but the temperature can shift a little bit and I'll be shivering.
I haven't tried linen, hemp or bamboo; and they're not very popular or available. What else is there?
posted by meowzilla at 7:08 PM on April 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
I've run a bunch in cotton. It seems fine as long as the temperature stays high, but the temperature can shift a little bit and I'll be shivering.
I haven't tried linen, hemp or bamboo; and they're not very popular or available. What else is there?
posted by meowzilla at 7:08 PM on April 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
I remember polyester from the 70s. Horrid stuff. I associate it with sweating to death. Then a few decades later came performance polyester. Love it. I always get it for gym clothes. Where I can't make the leap yet is in women's blouses. It's so difficult to find an affordable cotton (or cotton/spandex) nice fitted blouse that I can wear to work. Everything is polyester. But I still associate it so strongly with the 70's version that I will not buy it. Are non-performance polyesters truly reformed?
posted by arancidamoeba at 7:36 PM on April 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by arancidamoeba at 7:36 PM on April 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
In this case, talking about wool would be a distraction to their bias.
Well, yeah. If you're going to write an article in an outlet that's all about progress and how things are getting better all the time, then you'd do well to not put up an argument that has massive, obvious holes in it (not just the outdoor industry thing, but also the very obvious pollution issues). People might think perhaps things aren't getting better all the time, as you want to claim.
I'm for progress, but if the best you can come up with is an untrue story that ignores externalities, then maybe that's not really progress. Seems like ideology over facts, as usual.
posted by ssg at 7:43 PM on April 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
Well, yeah. If you're going to write an article in an outlet that's all about progress and how things are getting better all the time, then you'd do well to not put up an argument that has massive, obvious holes in it (not just the outdoor industry thing, but also the very obvious pollution issues). People might think perhaps things aren't getting better all the time, as you want to claim.
I'm for progress, but if the best you can come up with is an untrue story that ignores externalities, then maybe that's not really progress. Seems like ideology over facts, as usual.
posted by ssg at 7:43 PM on April 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
But of course, they're all dwarfed by the fourth aesthetic, the Day Tripper - jeans, running shoes, sweaty t-shirt. The others look at them as amateurs, but they're actually locals who live within 20 minutes of the trailhead and they come out here all the time to get some exercise and this outfit has been fine for the last decade, thank you very much.
It me! N.B. the Day Trippers look at the others as amateurs too. We also don't have space blankets and avalanche beacons and multitools and fire starting kits and whatever else they have in those day packs. It's like they're just wishing for something bad to happen so they can use all that shit.
Anyway back to TFA. I haaaaaate synthetics and they are everywhere now. Avoiding them is one of the organizing principles of my life. No kidding one of the first things that drew me to my partner was the absence of creepy synthetic clothing in his wardrobe. I just can't stand the feel of it, even thinking about touching someone wearing that synthetic wicking stuff gives me the heebie jeebies. Also, the smell. And the static. Ick!
posted by HotToddy at 7:44 PM on April 21, 2022 [6 favorites]
It me! N.B. the Day Trippers look at the others as amateurs too. We also don't have space blankets and avalanche beacons and multitools and fire starting kits and whatever else they have in those day packs. It's like they're just wishing for something bad to happen so they can use all that shit.
Anyway back to TFA. I haaaaaate synthetics and they are everywhere now. Avoiding them is one of the organizing principles of my life. No kidding one of the first things that drew me to my partner was the absence of creepy synthetic clothing in his wardrobe. I just can't stand the feel of it, even thinking about touching someone wearing that synthetic wicking stuff gives me the heebie jeebies. Also, the smell. And the static. Ick!
posted by HotToddy at 7:44 PM on April 21, 2022 [6 favorites]
Given the increasingly well-documented environmental concerns due to microplastics, I'm not a fan of the fact that polyester is so widely used in the clothing industry. The ever decreasing price of polyester and cotton (the race to the bottom!) is largely driving fast fashion, although at least cotton is a natural fiber, albeit with it's own environmental impacts. Now I see various marketing for "sustainable" polyester which is manufactured from recycled plastic, but this clothing will still shed microplastics into the environment. We purchased a washing machine filter from planetcare which is supposed to filter out these microplastics but its hard to know how good a job it is doing.
Anyway, it was an interesting article as I wasn't aware of the history of polyester. And that site seems to have a lot of other interesting content too.
posted by piyushnz at 8:35 PM on April 21, 2022 [6 favorites]
Anyway, it was an interesting article as I wasn't aware of the history of polyester. And that site seems to have a lot of other interesting content too.
posted by piyushnz at 8:35 PM on April 21, 2022 [6 favorites]
Interesting history of polyester, so I appreciate that. Like others have said though, it does try much too hard - it really reads like an advertorial. (And this thread is another example of why I love Metafilter at its best - others more knowledgeable pointing out all the holes when you were just ready to nod along thinking, how interesting.)
posted by blue shadows at 10:38 PM on April 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by blue shadows at 10:38 PM on April 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm a merino wool fan, all my thermals are merino wool because it makes cold climate travel and winter sports a lot easier when you can go a few days between washing stuff you've exerted yourself in without a smell problem.
But that shit is expensive. There's a wide price range in synthetic clothing but natural fibre stuff ranges from not cheap to ludicrously expensive and I've noticed that it has continued to steadily get more expensive over the last couple decades.
The continuing improvement in cheap polyester stuff is going to keep cold weather outdoor activities available to more people.
posted by zymil at 10:53 PM on April 21, 2022 [5 favorites]
But that shit is expensive. There's a wide price range in synthetic clothing but natural fibre stuff ranges from not cheap to ludicrously expensive and I've noticed that it has continued to steadily get more expensive over the last couple decades.
The continuing improvement in cheap polyester stuff is going to keep cold weather outdoor activities available to more people.
posted by zymil at 10:53 PM on April 21, 2022 [5 favorites]
I remember hand-me-downs in the 70s and 80s that were polyester and those were gross on many levels. I hate fast fashion very much - I generally want my clothes to last for a decade, but not those decades.
If I must fit a type I am a fairly satisfied REI member; gotta buy that stuff somewhere and they do put money into local parks and trails, they have lessons and meetups etc. Wasn’t raised in the outdoors. Hard for me to knock it. And so I do have both marino and ‘tech’ fabrics going on. I do believe the patagonia founders are trying to be good, they held a repair day once near me where their staffers would patch anything you brought them.
That said, ebay has been a main source for gear: patagonia and similar US and euro brands. I find the quality to be really good - if my gear is made from oil I want it to last. My top layers are usually marino wool and these North Face short sleeve tech fab shirts with no tails. In the winter I add flannel-y Irish work shirts - they are called ‘grandfather’ shirts now, and you have to look for good ones. I have one that I swear has linen running in the cloth from the days when farmers wore them. These combos keep me going year round.
I also have several poly pants from Bluffworks. In the bl1nk index those are my 3s. If I feel like a short hike during the week I don’t need to change, I just rock my Aussie pull-ons and office pants and go.
If I am doing work in the fall and winter on the trail, I bought a German police coat with lining for 20 bucks. It is a goretex equivalent, has reflective bits and huge pockets. I thought it would be good for bike commuting but the sleeves don’t follow when I ride. For work that is cool though. Those Irish shirts are like 4/5 sleeve. One importer tried to ask for full sleeves to be made and the maker was all “well the cuffs would just be there to get filthy then!”
posted by drowsy at 1:54 AM on April 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
If I must fit a type I am a fairly satisfied REI member; gotta buy that stuff somewhere and they do put money into local parks and trails, they have lessons and meetups etc. Wasn’t raised in the outdoors. Hard for me to knock it. And so I do have both marino and ‘tech’ fabrics going on. I do believe the patagonia founders are trying to be good, they held a repair day once near me where their staffers would patch anything you brought them.
That said, ebay has been a main source for gear: patagonia and similar US and euro brands. I find the quality to be really good - if my gear is made from oil I want it to last. My top layers are usually marino wool and these North Face short sleeve tech fab shirts with no tails. In the winter I add flannel-y Irish work shirts - they are called ‘grandfather’ shirts now, and you have to look for good ones. I have one that I swear has linen running in the cloth from the days when farmers wore them. These combos keep me going year round.
I also have several poly pants from Bluffworks. In the bl1nk index those are my 3s. If I feel like a short hike during the week I don’t need to change, I just rock my Aussie pull-ons and office pants and go.
If I am doing work in the fall and winter on the trail, I bought a German police coat with lining for 20 bucks. It is a goretex equivalent, has reflective bits and huge pockets. I thought it would be good for bike commuting but the sleeves don’t follow when I ride. For work that is cool though. Those Irish shirts are like 4/5 sleeve. One importer tried to ask for full sleeves to be made and the maker was all “well the cuffs would just be there to get filthy then!”
posted by drowsy at 1:54 AM on April 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
When I was a kid in the late 80s we went on holiday to the Yorkshire Dales and North York Moors. This was going to be a walking holiday, as in the activity most days was a ramble with a picnic. My mum had bought us little activity books, from the Ramblers Association or similar, and I remember that they were very clear that we shouldn't be wearing jeans. Of course, that's what us kids were wearing, jeans and trainers and cotton t-shirts and sweatshirts and cheap plastic cagoules. Because those were the clothes we owned. I couldn't at the time envisage what the recommended woollen trousers would look like anyway, because I associated wool with hand-knitted sweaters.
What we wore worked fine for what we did. If we were going now as kids, we might have been kitted out with polyester fleece because that can be found very cheaply anywhere. It's what I own now for any occasional outdoor activities. Wool is expensive, even though I can afford it, and I worry that it will itch. I guess I'm grateful for modern developments in polyester.
posted by plonkee at 4:10 AM on April 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
What we wore worked fine for what we did. If we were going now as kids, we might have been kitted out with polyester fleece because that can be found very cheaply anywhere. It's what I own now for any occasional outdoor activities. Wool is expensive, even though I can afford it, and I worry that it will itch. I guess I'm grateful for modern developments in polyester.
posted by plonkee at 4:10 AM on April 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
I haaaaaate synthetics and they are everywhere now. Avoiding them is one of the organizing principles of my life.
Same. It’s almost impossible anymore to find (relatively) affordable pants or jeans that don’t have some form of stretchy synthetic content. Hell, even the once-solidly-trad Lands End catalog is now almost entirely stretchy crap.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:40 AM on April 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
Same. It’s almost impossible anymore to find (relatively) affordable pants or jeans that don’t have some form of stretchy synthetic content. Hell, even the once-solidly-trad Lands End catalog is now almost entirely stretchy crap.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:40 AM on April 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
Eddie Bauer's amazing "legend wash" tees are now "pro" blends, which is tbh creeping me the fuck out. I bought some yesterday anyway because the old cotton ones I have are like 20 years old and looking rather ratty.
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:56 AM on April 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:56 AM on April 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Three years ago, I got a lightweight Patagonia base layer at REI. $50 for a base layer!
But it worked so well with winter bike riding that I got a second one. These are thinner than t-shirt material, very light. Smooth surfaced, so easy to layer up. Two layers are pretty warm under a windbreaker jacket down to 45F. A single layer is good with a short sleeve jersey in the mid 50s to upper 60s.
I wondered about durability, but both are like new. Very sturdy. I expect to be wearing them to last at least 10 years. Nice.
posted by jjj606 at 5:28 AM on April 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
But it worked so well with winter bike riding that I got a second one. These are thinner than t-shirt material, very light. Smooth surfaced, so easy to layer up. Two layers are pretty warm under a windbreaker jacket down to 45F. A single layer is good with a short sleeve jersey in the mid 50s to upper 60s.
I wondered about durability, but both are like new. Very sturdy. I expect to be wearing them to last at least 10 years. Nice.
posted by jjj606 at 5:28 AM on April 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
I have a drawer of Uniqlo HeatTech garments (with technology from Toray), which I'm guessing is something of the sort. They're fairly inexpensive (about $10 or so for a T-shirt, maybe 1.5x that for the higher-spec variant, and they also have trousers, socks and scarves incorporating the material.
posted by acb at 5:53 AM on April 22, 2022
posted by acb at 5:53 AM on April 22, 2022
" the resurgence in the last couple decades of merino wool, plus the continued use of down and to a lesser degree silk"
This is true for serious outdoorspeople and/or those who can also afford that, but as every day wear for the majority of regular folks on a budget, we're still wearing tons of polarfleece and other synthetics or synthetic-cotton blends. (I.e. almost everything at Walmart or Target or discount clothing stores.)
posted by thefool at 6:05 AM on April 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
This is true for serious outdoorspeople and/or those who can also afford that, but as every day wear for the majority of regular folks on a budget, we're still wearing tons of polarfleece and other synthetics or synthetic-cotton blends. (I.e. almost everything at Walmart or Target or discount clothing stores.)
posted by thefool at 6:05 AM on April 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
miyake’s Pleats Please work because they’re made of polyester.
posted by Ideefixe at 6:15 AM on April 22, 2022
posted by Ideefixe at 6:15 AM on April 22, 2022
We're still years away from the conversation we have to have about clothing and environmental burdens, as the health and ecosystem implications of microplastics aren't well known yet. But estimates put clothing, specifically from laundering synthetic fabrics, as the source for about 1/3 the total generation of micro-plastic particles. I expect this to become a larger issue in the future.
posted by bonehead at 6:39 AM on April 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 6:39 AM on April 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
I would be thrilled to eschew polyester for other fabrics -- except I am what they call an Extended Size, ergo far too déclassée for natural-fiber brands to sell to.
Too often it's buy polyester or go nekkid.
posted by humbug at 6:40 AM on April 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
Too often it's buy polyester or go nekkid.
posted by humbug at 6:40 AM on April 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
It’s almost impossible anymore to find (relatively) affordable pants or jeans that don’t have some form of stretchy synthetic content. Hell, even the once-solidly-trad Lands End catalog is now almost entirely stretchy crap.
Yes and they are so miserably, miserably hot in the summer. I wonder if young people even know the cool comfort of all-cotton jeans. And really that’s true for everything—I wonder if people are just unaware of the low-level discomfort produced by synthetics. It’s the same difference between the feeling you get from being in a room with real woods floors and one with plastic laminate floors, no matter how convincing. Your body knows.
posted by HotToddy at 7:01 AM on April 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
Yes and they are so miserably, miserably hot in the summer. I wonder if young people even know the cool comfort of all-cotton jeans. And really that’s true for everything—I wonder if people are just unaware of the low-level discomfort produced by synthetics. It’s the same difference between the feeling you get from being in a room with real woods floors and one with plastic laminate floors, no matter how convincing. Your body knows.
posted by HotToddy at 7:01 AM on April 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
In my experience (fifteen to twenty years ago), outdoors people telling you how to dress for your hike will tell you that cotton can get you killed, for the very same reason it keeps you so nice and cool in the summer. Your jeans and cotton T-shirts can be the first step in a chain ending in you dying of exposure when you get lost overnight (or quicker than that if you went up Mt. Washington). They are not wrong, but it's a pretty stiff demand for somebody who just wanted to get out in the quiet for a few hours.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:29 AM on April 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 7:29 AM on April 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
Polyester is one of the characters in my half-baked theory that we are serving the machines.
When somebody invented machines to turn huge amounts of cotton into cloth, it wasn't used as a labour-saving device. Instead, it was used to economically justify enslaving millions of people to grow cotton to feed the machines.
When somebody invented machines to make huge amounts of fibre, mostly polyester, out of oil, it was used (and continues to be used) to economically justify putting millions of poor people to work in sweatshops to sew fast-fashion clothing.
"How can we force millions of people to slave away serving this machine?" is the question our economy asks without us thinking about it.
posted by clawsoon at 7:33 AM on April 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
When somebody invented machines to turn huge amounts of cotton into cloth, it wasn't used as a labour-saving device. Instead, it was used to economically justify enslaving millions of people to grow cotton to feed the machines.
When somebody invented machines to make huge amounts of fibre, mostly polyester, out of oil, it was used (and continues to be used) to economically justify putting millions of poor people to work in sweatshops to sew fast-fashion clothing.
"How can we force millions of people to slave away serving this machine?" is the question our economy asks without us thinking about it.
posted by clawsoon at 7:33 AM on April 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
A single point of anecdata: I had a surprising dividend from REI last year (new boots for the whole fam, some gear upgrades) so I decided to upgrade my backpacking undies collection. In addition to my usual collection of poly blend sport undies... I bought two pairs of smart wool merino blend undies for a whopping $35...each. I am a wool/merino wearer in all other areas (socks, base layer, etc) but had yet to try wool underthings. What would they be like???
The result is that they're fine. They feel like cotton ones but wick like the poly ones. They're in the rotation and I will bring them backpacking, but I do feel a bit silly spending so much of my dividend on underpants.
I have yet to find or try a Merino wool bra. Maybe with the next big dividend.
posted by Gray Duck at 7:42 AM on April 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
The result is that they're fine. They feel like cotton ones but wick like the poly ones. They're in the rotation and I will bring them backpacking, but I do feel a bit silly spending so much of my dividend on underpants.
I have yet to find or try a Merino wool bra. Maybe with the next big dividend.
posted by Gray Duck at 7:42 AM on April 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Interesting. I'm usually opposed to embracing "naturalness" and rejecting "artificial" things, but, I very notably smell better when I wear cotton, linen, and wool. I don't understand why.
posted by eotvos at 7:59 AM on April 22, 2022
Half the fun of sewing clothes is finding really awesome fabrics, which is frustratingly difficult here in the US, especially for garment fabrics. But that's my bias...I spent a week in a shared hostel with someone from Europe whose full time job was traveling to poor countries and filling cargo containers with fabric. I've forgotten most of the details and probably didn't understand it well to begin with. But, the amount of frustration at finding good fabric in big city France and Germany was memorable. It seems very surprising to me that this could possibly be true.
posted by eotvos at 7:59 AM on April 22, 2022
The odor on your clothes is caused by microbes and bacteria that flourish when your sweat comes in contact with your skin. The wicking properties of polyester means that moisture stays out on the surface of the clothing and creates a fertile ecosystem for that bacteria to colonize and emit fragrance until you wash the fabric. Linen, wool and cotton threads soak up the moisture and make less of that available for bacteria to live in. Also the relative roughness of the fibers in comparison to polyester makes it difficult for bacteria to take hold.
This is why, as someone else mentioned upthread, wool feels heavier when it's wet. It can hold up to a third of its own weight in moisture, but that moisture is held in the fibers before it wicks out and the stuff held in the fibers is not hospitable for microbes, whereas poly will also mostly wick out moisture but areas that are hard to dry like your armpits or your back (if you're wearing a backpack) rapidly get stinky.
posted by bl1nk at 8:16 AM on April 22, 2022 [8 favorites]
This is why, as someone else mentioned upthread, wool feels heavier when it's wet. It can hold up to a third of its own weight in moisture, but that moisture is held in the fibers before it wicks out and the stuff held in the fibers is not hospitable for microbes, whereas poly will also mostly wick out moisture but areas that are hard to dry like your armpits or your back (if you're wearing a backpack) rapidly get stinky.
posted by bl1nk at 8:16 AM on April 22, 2022 [8 favorites]
Yes and they are so miserably, miserably hot in the summer. I wonder if young people even know the cool comfort of all-cotton jeans.
Cotton jeans? You mean like cotton khaki pants? I'm old enough to have those and don't feel that much difference between denim jeans, stretchy denim jeans, and khaki pants.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:18 AM on April 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Cotton jeans? You mean like cotton khaki pants? I'm old enough to have those and don't feel that much difference between denim jeans, stretchy denim jeans, and khaki pants.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:18 AM on April 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
To this day I will not wear a tshirt with any polyester in it.
posted by Liquidwolf at 8:24 AM on April 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Liquidwolf at 8:24 AM on April 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
In fact we would generally add tight polyester (often pantyhose from the grocery store if we couldn't make to an actual sporting goods store for tights) to our sports uniforms to look cooler, even if it was slightly more uncomfortable.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:24 AM on April 22, 2022
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:24 AM on April 22, 2022
I’m not sure how sold I am on these scientific advances. I don’t love polyester, but I do have a couple of vintage 70s pieces and the polyester stuff from that era washes up nice and seems to last forever. If you vintage shop, you can easily spot the 70s poly and see how vibrant and new looking the fabrics still are.
Meanwhile, new poly blend fast fashion will fall apart quickly. “Vintage Y2K” is trendy now, and it’s amazing how crappy clothing from the 2000s looks compared to a couple decades before. New polyester might feel better but it’s definitely not made to last — though I guess few clothing is these days, sadly.
posted by vanitas at 8:52 AM on April 22, 2022
Meanwhile, new poly blend fast fashion will fall apart quickly. “Vintage Y2K” is trendy now, and it’s amazing how crappy clothing from the 2000s looks compared to a couple decades before. New polyester might feel better but it’s definitely not made to last — though I guess few clothing is these days, sadly.
posted by vanitas at 8:52 AM on April 22, 2022
I can't comment much on the outdoors clothing side but I live in such hot weather, 'ice silk' shirts and shorts have been an economical godsend. Upon reading TFA it's probably a variation of polyester. That said, there's a remarkable absence of rayon in this telling - don't they exist in that clothing sector too? Rayon (and later modal) to me is very interesting from a marketing standpoint, because there's a lot of hay made about the organic materials (e.g. bamboo) but not at all about the process which is basically synthetic and the same as polyester, and I know bamboo gets lauded as a performance fiber too. Essentially every cellulose yarn you see is a type of rayon, and it always leaves me a little sardonic since I spin yarn to see the array of bamboo, pineapple, rose, even seaweed fibres being presented as natural (and they are packaged in cuts to resemble wool lengths so feel free to imagine the shedding).
The other thing on the landscape that I noticed is manufacturers working to introduce biodegradability to the material - back to the spinning front, a shop I frequent is selling 'bio-nylon' as one of their ethical and vegan options. I'm still thinking about it. still, just to bring it back to my part of the world, where other than cotton (we have poor terrain for it - the Dutch tried though, in Indonesia) or silk (the mulberry trees are not found here), all our cellulose options were straight up tree bark before international trade gave us better options. We're too warm for the kind of bast fibre like linen, nettles or ramie (Korea). Even Filipino pineapple fibre (the traditional kind) was thanks to the introduction of red pineapple by the Spanish. For all the poo-poo-ing, the region where almost half of the world resides would be all the poorer for it (literally) without modern textile fabrication technology. My specific part of the region historically for example, for all its extensive weaving cultures, genuinely had no indigenous thread making/yarn spinning culture.
posted by cendawanita at 9:24 AM on April 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
The other thing on the landscape that I noticed is manufacturers working to introduce biodegradability to the material - back to the spinning front, a shop I frequent is selling 'bio-nylon' as one of their ethical and vegan options. I'm still thinking about it. still, just to bring it back to my part of the world, where other than cotton (we have poor terrain for it - the Dutch tried though, in Indonesia) or silk (the mulberry trees are not found here), all our cellulose options were straight up tree bark before international trade gave us better options. We're too warm for the kind of bast fibre like linen, nettles or ramie (Korea). Even Filipino pineapple fibre (the traditional kind) was thanks to the introduction of red pineapple by the Spanish. For all the poo-poo-ing, the region where almost half of the world resides would be all the poorer for it (literally) without modern textile fabrication technology. My specific part of the region historically for example, for all its extensive weaving cultures, genuinely had no indigenous thread making/yarn spinning culture.
posted by cendawanita at 9:24 AM on April 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
If I recall correctly, as Big Youth, the Jamaican rapper prototype, once toasted...
Natty Dread don't jester, he no wear polyester...*
And now today I learned the root word for Natty is Knotty as in Knotty Dread -- which makes a hella lot of sense in retrospect...
-- Truly this changes everything.
posted by y2karl at 9:40 AM on April 22, 2022
Natty Dread don't jester, he no wear polyester...*
And now today I learned the root word for Natty is Knotty as in Knotty Dread -- which makes a hella lot of sense in retrospect...
-- Truly this changes everything.
posted by y2karl at 9:40 AM on April 22, 2022
I haven't tried linen, hemp or bamboo; and they're not very popular or available. What else is there?
So I was intrigued by the boom in "bamboo" clothing online, which started a few years ago. I ended up going down an Internet rabbithole one day. It turns out that "bamboo" fabric is really.... (drumroll)... rayon.
Good 'ol, pre-polyester rayon, or Viscose if you're feeling fancy. Which has apparently gone through the same sort of rethinking that polyester has, and is now turning up in all sorts of "performance blend" fabrics.
The advantage (in theory) of rayon is that it's not produced from plastic, but is made from cellulose. Pretty much anything that contains cellulose can be made into rayon, with more or less work. It's sort of a chemically nasty process, though, because you're basically dissolving the cellulose in some sort of very potent solvent, then taking the solvent back out and re-forming the cellulose into whatever shape or type of fiber you want to make. There are a couple of different production processes, but the cheapest involves carbon disulphide, and I suspect this is what's being used when the stuff is produced in China. (Exposure to it causes the aptly named "encephalopathia sulfocarbonica", characterized by "acute psychosis, paranoic ideas, loss of appetite, gastrointestinal and sexual disorders, polyneuritis, myopathy, and mood changes". Fun stuff.)
During the First Rayon Boom in the early 20th century, it was positioned as an artificial alternative to silk. Its main US producer, the American Viscose Corporation, built gigantic plants in key locations throughout the US, including several whose ruins are still around (one in Front Royal, Virginia, and another in Roanoke are both still mostly standing). They were intentionally built near ready supplies of timber and fresh water, which they used in great quantity (and dumped equally great quantities of contaminated chemical waste into). Pretty much all of them are Superfund sites today.
I'm not clear on whether rayon is in any way preferable to polyester in terms of microfiber pollution, but I can vouch for the fact that the modern stuff does feel quite different from the early/mid-20th century stuff, and blends pretty well with cotton.
Since learning that it can be produced from bamboo, I've been curious whether you could make rayon from post-consumer or post-industrial paper waste, which would provide a use for all the paper and cardboard that we can't just ship to China for disposal anymore. I've never been able to get an answer to this question, although I have discovered that some of the more high-tech forms of rayon (such as the fibers used inside tires) are made from pretty pure sources of cellulose (beech tree fiber is apparently one), so maybe it won't work if the stuff has already been processed into paper.
posted by Kadin2048 at 11:35 AM on April 22, 2022 [8 favorites]
So I was intrigued by the boom in "bamboo" clothing online, which started a few years ago. I ended up going down an Internet rabbithole one day. It turns out that "bamboo" fabric is really.... (drumroll)... rayon.
Good 'ol, pre-polyester rayon, or Viscose if you're feeling fancy. Which has apparently gone through the same sort of rethinking that polyester has, and is now turning up in all sorts of "performance blend" fabrics.
The advantage (in theory) of rayon is that it's not produced from plastic, but is made from cellulose. Pretty much anything that contains cellulose can be made into rayon, with more or less work. It's sort of a chemically nasty process, though, because you're basically dissolving the cellulose in some sort of very potent solvent, then taking the solvent back out and re-forming the cellulose into whatever shape or type of fiber you want to make. There are a couple of different production processes, but the cheapest involves carbon disulphide, and I suspect this is what's being used when the stuff is produced in China. (Exposure to it causes the aptly named "encephalopathia sulfocarbonica", characterized by "acute psychosis, paranoic ideas, loss of appetite, gastrointestinal and sexual disorders, polyneuritis, myopathy, and mood changes". Fun stuff.)
During the First Rayon Boom in the early 20th century, it was positioned as an artificial alternative to silk. Its main US producer, the American Viscose Corporation, built gigantic plants in key locations throughout the US, including several whose ruins are still around (one in Front Royal, Virginia, and another in Roanoke are both still mostly standing). They were intentionally built near ready supplies of timber and fresh water, which they used in great quantity (and dumped equally great quantities of contaminated chemical waste into). Pretty much all of them are Superfund sites today.
I'm not clear on whether rayon is in any way preferable to polyester in terms of microfiber pollution, but I can vouch for the fact that the modern stuff does feel quite different from the early/mid-20th century stuff, and blends pretty well with cotton.
Since learning that it can be produced from bamboo, I've been curious whether you could make rayon from post-consumer or post-industrial paper waste, which would provide a use for all the paper and cardboard that we can't just ship to China for disposal anymore. I've never been able to get an answer to this question, although I have discovered that some of the more high-tech forms of rayon (such as the fibers used inside tires) are made from pretty pure sources of cellulose (beech tree fiber is apparently one), so maybe it won't work if the stuff has already been processed into paper.
posted by Kadin2048 at 11:35 AM on April 22, 2022 [8 favorites]
there's a lot of hay made about the organic materials (e.g. bamboo) but not at all about the process which is basically synthetic and the same as polyester
Not at all the same. The chemical processing involved in making rayon dissolves existing, plant-derived cellulose rather than building a biologically novel polymer from scratch. The wicking and anti-stink behaviour of rayon fibre is also very similar to that of cotton, mainly because it is the same polymer. And when rayon sheds microfibres in the wash, they're chemically identical to what cotton sheds and every bit as biocompatible. Lots of microbes know how to eat cellulose.
posted by flabdablet at 11:41 AM on April 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
Not at all the same. The chemical processing involved in making rayon dissolves existing, plant-derived cellulose rather than building a biologically novel polymer from scratch. The wicking and anti-stink behaviour of rayon fibre is also very similar to that of cotton, mainly because it is the same polymer. And when rayon sheds microfibres in the wash, they're chemically identical to what cotton sheds and every bit as biocompatible. Lots of microbes know how to eat cellulose.
posted by flabdablet at 11:41 AM on April 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
I wonder if people are just unaware of the low-level discomfort produced by synthetics.
OTOH, as someone who has a digestive disorder, stretchy pants means that I can comfortably wear pants all day without feeling like I have a vice around my waist.
posted by rhymedirective at 12:16 PM on April 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
OTOH, as someone who has a digestive disorder, stretchy pants means that I can comfortably wear pants all day without feeling like I have a vice around my waist.
posted by rhymedirective at 12:16 PM on April 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
I wonder if people are just unaware of the low-level discomfort produced by synthetics.
I think this is sort of a varies-by-person thing? I mean, I'm wearing (thanks to multiple Ask Metafilter recommendations) Ex Officio underwear at the moment, and most of their stuff is like a 90% / 10% Nylon/Elastane blend. I find it perfectly comfortable.
Perhaps it's more that synthetics are used frequently in cheap clothing, and it's the cheap stuff that's uncomfortable? I've never noticed the higher-end modern synthetics to feel noticeably less comfortable than good natural-fiber clothes (although I do find that synthetic gym clothes need to be washed with Borax plus regular detergent to get the smell out).
posted by Kadin2048 at 12:35 PM on April 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think this is sort of a varies-by-person thing? I mean, I'm wearing (thanks to multiple Ask Metafilter recommendations) Ex Officio underwear at the moment, and most of their stuff is like a 90% / 10% Nylon/Elastane blend. I find it perfectly comfortable.
Perhaps it's more that synthetics are used frequently in cheap clothing, and it's the cheap stuff that's uncomfortable? I've never noticed the higher-end modern synthetics to feel noticeably less comfortable than good natural-fiber clothes (although I do find that synthetic gym clothes need to be washed with Borax plus regular detergent to get the smell out).
posted by Kadin2048 at 12:35 PM on April 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
stretchy pants means that I can comfortably wear pants all day without feeling like I have a vice around my waist
The world's comfiest pants are made mostly of rayon and have a super accomodating smocked waist region instead of a waist vice.
posted by flabdablet at 12:37 PM on April 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
The world's comfiest pants are made mostly of rayon and have a super accomodating smocked waist region instead of a waist vice.
posted by flabdablet at 12:37 PM on April 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
AFAICT the shopping heuristic for rayon is that if it's described as viscose, it's probably made in one of the most damaging ways, and if it's marked Oeko-Tex, it's made in the least damaging ways we know (which limits the available dyes, frex). There are a lot of brand names in between, though.
posted by clew at 12:38 PM on April 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by clew at 12:38 PM on April 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
So like what natural fibers are environmentally friendly? If polyester is putting microplastics in the water and cotton has a terrible emissions footprint, what's good? Is hemp environmentally friendly? Why hasn't it taken off even though industrial hemp has been legalized?
posted by Easy problem of consciousness at 1:01 PM on April 22, 2022
posted by Easy problem of consciousness at 1:01 PM on April 22, 2022
I'm guessing the most environmentally friendly fibre is the one you wear the longest and the most, well past looking respectable.
But environmental concerns tend to disappear as soon as stuff stops looking respectable, so I dunno...
posted by clawsoon at 2:07 PM on April 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
But environmental concerns tend to disappear as soon as stuff stops looking respectable, so I dunno...
posted by clawsoon at 2:07 PM on April 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Is hemp environmentally friendly?
Hemp requires 1/20th (or less) of the water that cotton requires to produce 1kg and yields 3 tons per hectare vs 1.35 tons per hectare for cotton.
posted by piyushnz at 3:11 PM on April 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
Hemp requires 1/20th (or less) of the water that cotton requires to produce 1kg and yields 3 tons per hectare vs 1.35 tons per hectare for cotton.
posted by piyushnz at 3:11 PM on April 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
The wicking and anti-stink behaviour of rayon fibre is also very similar to that of cotton, mainly because it is the same polymer. And when rayon sheds microfibres in the wash, they're chemically identical to what cotton sheds and every bit as biocompatible
That's good to know! Though the fabrication process as outlined by Kadin2048 is THE point of frustration to me actually and below a certain price point where my economic power resides it's very difficult to find out which technology produces the rayon fibre. Ah well, at least the spinning fibres I have feels less like a social ethical injury.
There's some upstart govt project here to produce hemp at scale but just generally it turns out rainforest terrain is great for ecological niches but not so much with textile-friendly economies of scale plants!
posted by cendawanita at 3:18 PM on April 22, 2022
That's good to know! Though the fabrication process as outlined by Kadin2048 is THE point of frustration to me actually and below a certain price point where my economic power resides it's very difficult to find out which technology produces the rayon fibre. Ah well, at least the spinning fibres I have feels less like a social ethical injury.
There's some upstart govt project here to produce hemp at scale but just generally it turns out rainforest terrain is great for ecological niches but not so much with textile-friendly economies of scale plants!
posted by cendawanita at 3:18 PM on April 22, 2022
Fabric University is a spot I go to every so often to check on fiber characteristics (since yarn spinning is a hobby that rewards novelty material exploration but maybe not as much interest in elaborating
the production background). Unmentioned so far in our thread is newer protein fibres - milk and soybean for example - with similar processes like the cellulose ones, or at least that's how I understand it whenever step one is, 'make a chemical slurry'.
posted by cendawanita at 3:32 PM on April 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
the production background). Unmentioned so far in our thread is newer protein fibres - milk and soybean for example - with similar processes like the cellulose ones, or at least that's how I understand it whenever step one is, 'make a chemical slurry'.
posted by cendawanita at 3:32 PM on April 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
I have a pair of pants made with hemp (and I think cotton and linen) and I have had them for at least 16 years and they look the same. So sturdy. Sadly, Patagonia appears to have stopped making them...
posted by suelac at 7:54 PM on April 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by suelac at 7:54 PM on April 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Another annoying thing about polyester is that even in clothing made from non-synthetic fibres, the thread used to sew up the garment is always polyester. Most sewing threads are also polyester, although you can get cotton and even silk.
posted by Fuchsoid at 3:53 AM on April 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Fuchsoid at 3:53 AM on April 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
So based on my reading, rayon should be a pretty good choice for clothes from an environmental standpoint. Because it can be made from a variety of inputs, including fast-growing grasses like bamboo, it doesn't have the same farming footprint as cotton (or linen, or wool).
There are at least three different chemical processes used to produce textile rayon: the cuprammonium method, the viscose method (which should probably be called the "carbon disulfide method"), and the Lyocell method (which, again if we're being consistent, would be the "NMMO method").
Cuprammonium rayon is only made by a single producer in Japan, Asahi Kasei, and sold under the Bemberg trade name. It's made from cellulose sourced exclusively from cottonseed waste (a byproduct of cottonseed oil production) which is unsuitable for traditional cotton textile production. Based on their website, it seems as though it is used largely for the lining of higher-end Japanese garments (where silk would traditionally be used, e.g. inside suits and kimonos). I'm not quite clear what advantages the cuprammonium method have over the viscose method, but it appears to be a very nice, silk-like feel.
Given that Japan has pretty stringent industrial safety and environmental laws, I'd feel pretty comfortable buying it, given the option. But I've never seen clothing advertised as being made from it in the US. (Also I have unanswered questions about whether cupro rayon can be machine washed and dried, or if it has to be dry cleaned, which could conceivably increase a garment's lifetime footprint significantly.)
"Viscose" rayon is made using carbon disulfide (CS2) as a major process chemical, which is pretty nasty stuff. If done properly, most of the carbon disulfide can be recovered and reused... but, duh, that's not how it's done in most of the places where it's produced most cheaply. And CS2 in the atmosphere eventually becomes SO2 which is a potent greenhouse gas. Not great. I'd bet good money that poorly-controlled viscose factories in Asia are where most "fast fashion" / cheap rayon clothing (including "bamboo" clothing) comes from.
Lyocell rayon is the newest production method and was invented specifically to eliminate the use of carbon disulfide. It uses NMMO instead, which (despite the impenetrable name triggering my dislike of organic chemistry) is apparently less nasty than CS2 as cellulose solvents go. But, basically "because capitalism", the Lyocell process hasn't displaced the viscose process and represents only a minority of rayon production.
But it's not all bad news. It appears you can buy both Lyocell rayon, and viscose rayon from places with reasonable safety and emissions regulations—if you shop around.
"Tencel" is a brand name of textile fibers formerly made in the UK by Courtaulds, now owned by Lenzing of Austria, and is mostly produced in the EU (although they operate factories in China and Thailand for reasons that I suspect have little to do with liking the food there; also they haven't always had great labor management practices) using mostly the Lyocell method. Some boutique clothing brands lean into its use pretty heavily as a "green" alternative to cotton.
My feeling is that seeking out "Tencel" or just "Lyocell" clothes probably is about the best you can do in terms of environmentally- and worker-friendly textile fiber, without jumping all the way into the high-cost world of artisanal small-batch wool produced by sheep with better healthcare than the average American (which is great, but isn't going to help the rest of us whose budget is an order of magnitude less than that for a sweater).
posted by Kadin2048 at 11:39 PM on April 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
There are at least three different chemical processes used to produce textile rayon: the cuprammonium method, the viscose method (which should probably be called the "carbon disulfide method"), and the Lyocell method (which, again if we're being consistent, would be the "NMMO method").
Cuprammonium rayon is only made by a single producer in Japan, Asahi Kasei, and sold under the Bemberg trade name. It's made from cellulose sourced exclusively from cottonseed waste (a byproduct of cottonseed oil production) which is unsuitable for traditional cotton textile production. Based on their website, it seems as though it is used largely for the lining of higher-end Japanese garments (where silk would traditionally be used, e.g. inside suits and kimonos). I'm not quite clear what advantages the cuprammonium method have over the viscose method, but it appears to be a very nice, silk-like feel.
Given that Japan has pretty stringent industrial safety and environmental laws, I'd feel pretty comfortable buying it, given the option. But I've never seen clothing advertised as being made from it in the US. (Also I have unanswered questions about whether cupro rayon can be machine washed and dried, or if it has to be dry cleaned, which could conceivably increase a garment's lifetime footprint significantly.)
"Viscose" rayon is made using carbon disulfide (CS2) as a major process chemical, which is pretty nasty stuff. If done properly, most of the carbon disulfide can be recovered and reused... but, duh, that's not how it's done in most of the places where it's produced most cheaply. And CS2 in the atmosphere eventually becomes SO2 which is a potent greenhouse gas. Not great. I'd bet good money that poorly-controlled viscose factories in Asia are where most "fast fashion" / cheap rayon clothing (including "bamboo" clothing) comes from.
Lyocell rayon is the newest production method and was invented specifically to eliminate the use of carbon disulfide. It uses NMMO instead, which (despite the impenetrable name triggering my dislike of organic chemistry) is apparently less nasty than CS2 as cellulose solvents go. But, basically "because capitalism", the Lyocell process hasn't displaced the viscose process and represents only a minority of rayon production.
But it's not all bad news. It appears you can buy both Lyocell rayon, and viscose rayon from places with reasonable safety and emissions regulations—if you shop around.
"Tencel" is a brand name of textile fibers formerly made in the UK by Courtaulds, now owned by Lenzing of Austria, and is mostly produced in the EU (although they operate factories in China and Thailand for reasons that I suspect have little to do with liking the food there; also they haven't always had great labor management practices) using mostly the Lyocell method. Some boutique clothing brands lean into its use pretty heavily as a "green" alternative to cotton.
My feeling is that seeking out "Tencel" or just "Lyocell" clothes probably is about the best you can do in terms of environmentally- and worker-friendly textile fiber, without jumping all the way into the high-cost world of artisanal small-batch wool produced by sheep with better healthcare than the average American (which is great, but isn't going to help the rest of us whose budget is an order of magnitude less than that for a sweater).
posted by Kadin2048 at 11:39 PM on April 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
Polylactic acid (PLA) is being trialed for fabric. The same stuff that's popular for 3D printing objects. It's generally made out of corn starch and is biodegradable. This is really good news on a variety of fronts.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:00 AM on April 25, 2022
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:00 AM on April 25, 2022
Does this mean that the number of insect species capable of eating holes in your clothes will be greater than for cotton/wool?
posted by acb at 5:12 AM on April 25, 2022
posted by acb at 5:12 AM on April 25, 2022
No. PLA is not corn starch, it's a long chain lactic acid polymer plastic (as we commonly refer to such things) that generally but not necessarily uses corn starch as a production feedstock.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:29 AM on April 25, 2022
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:29 AM on April 25, 2022
Bemberg rayon is widely available as a lining fabric (i.e., not just in Japanese garments). You wouldn't mistake it for silk, but it's definitely silky, and unlike polyester lining, it's breathable and doesn't get staticky. The usual advice is dry clean only, but that's mostly because it's used as a lining fabric and all lined garments are risky to wash because the fashion fabric and lining fabric will usually react differently to being washed. Rayon gets stiff and weird when wet but returns to normal when dry.
posted by HotToddy at 8:11 AM on April 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by HotToddy at 8:11 AM on April 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Oh gosh, please disregard my inadequately informed comment above. I have always sewn with a product marketed as Bemberg rayon but that is indeed not the same thing as Japanese cuprammonium Bemberg! Here's a really thorough exposition on the Japanese product. In the course of reading about this I saw a comment that the company that was importing it to the US had stopped operations earlier this year so it's really hard to find. Learned something new. Thanks Kadin2048!
posted by HotToddy at 8:22 AM on April 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by HotToddy at 8:22 AM on April 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
And now today I learned the root word for Natty is Knotty as in Knotty Dread -- which makes a hella lot of sense in retrospect...Perhaps off topic, but interesting. Thanks! (I'm not proud that throughout most of elementary school years I thought it just meant a bad haircut on anybody. I imagine I probably used it both in places where it confused people and in places where it was quite offensive. I'm glad a teacher corrected me.) Perhaps very slightly on topic, I was surprised a while back to learn that Garrett Morgan, who invented the 3-position stoplight and the respirator, actually made his fortune by discovering that a chemical he designed to prevent scorched wool fabric could also straighten human hair. Fibres are neat.
posted by eotvos at 8:33 AM on April 25, 2022
a product marketed as Bemberg rayon but that is indeed not the same thing as Japanese cuprammonium Bemberg
Really? Phooey, did the Japanese company not get the trademark in the US or what?
I do know that nice Bemberg is really nice, but now I'm wondering if "nice Bemberg" has been cupro and the other stuff hasn't.
posted by clew at 11:09 AM on April 25, 2022
Really? Phooey, did the Japanese company not get the trademark in the US or what?
I do know that nice Bemberg is really nice, but now I'm wondering if "nice Bemberg" has been cupro and the other stuff hasn't.
posted by clew at 11:09 AM on April 25, 2022
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
One of the benefits of sewing is making well fitting clothes which you don't see as much of in ready to wear clothing since they've reduced the number of sizes for easier inventory management.
That and it just doesn't last as long as I'd like, it wears out in weird unpredictable ways.
Half the fun of sewing clothes is finding really awesome fabrics, which is frustratingly difficult here in the US, especially for garment fabrics. But that's my bias...
posted by scififan at 5:05 PM on April 21, 2022 [26 favorites]