The Resurgence of the Abortion Underground
May 2, 2022 8:53 PM Subscribe
"There’s a common story about abortion in this country, that people have only two options to intentionally end a pregnancy: the clinic or the coat hanger. They can choose the safe route that’s protected by Roe v. Wade—a doctor in a legal clinic—or, if Roe is overturned, endure a dangerous back-alley abortion, symbolized by the coat hanger. But a close look at the history of abortion in this country shows that there’s much more to this story. As the Supreme Court prepares to hear a case that could overturn Roe v Wade in June, activists are once again preparing to take abortion into their own hands."
Yes, this week-ish-old podcast is slight outdated...but also (sadly) perhaps more relevant.
Yes, this week-ish-old podcast is slight outdated...but also (sadly) perhaps more relevant.
It’s war.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:31 PM on May 2, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:31 PM on May 2, 2022 [12 favorites]
If you know of a group that needs help, I'd like to find out if I can be of any use. Feel free to DM me.
If you don't know of one, maybe MeFites could... ... ... do a thing that should be discussed elsewhere?
posted by pelvicsorcery at 9:47 PM on May 2, 2022 [6 favorites]
If you don't know of one, maybe MeFites could... ... ... do a thing that should be discussed elsewhere?
posted by pelvicsorcery at 9:47 PM on May 2, 2022 [6 favorites]
One thing I find encouraging is that I’m hearing more and more stories of younger people being able to access sterilization than in past years.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:11 PM on May 2, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:11 PM on May 2, 2022 [5 favorites]
alls I'm saying is an in-law unit can become an out-law unit in a pinch
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:30 PM on May 2, 2022 [17 favorites]
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:30 PM on May 2, 2022 [17 favorites]
I have two things to say about this:
1) I believe that letting individual states have a say on such a fundamental issue is a recipe for disaster. There are some things that should NOT be left up to the states, and if the Justices really think that's the way forward, they are taking a very short-sighted view in an attempt to "right" the wrongs of a past court, neglecting what damage they will do in turn when they should consider what the ramifications would be if they over turn RvW.
2) How illegal would it be, to setup a nation-wide network of volunteers, who receive something in the mail of which the content that may or may not contain RU486 and its follow up drug, and upon receiving a certain anon request that can be validated, drop a certain package in the mail addressed to a certain address or POBox?
Imagine something like this: 100 volunteers, each elected to receive a package containing 100 packets of pills. Some of which will be real RU486 and its follow up drug, some of which are placebo only. They are serialized, so whoever sent the package knows which is which. But the recipient will not know.
Upon a certain notification, a certain number of these volunteers will take package X from their "inventory", verify via a barcode, put stamps on it, and drop it in the mail. They would not know if what they sent was the real drugs or placebo. All they did was added an address label and added postage.
The notification can be PGP encrypted, and thus authenticated and verified to be genuine.
The recipient will receive encrypted instructions to identify which packages contain the drugs and the proper dosage instructions, as if they came from a OB/GYN or PP.
I would expect such a network to be practically untraceable and a waste of time to go after. instead of in sets of 100. Maybe sets of 12, or 5, or even a single packet. Even if they were able to intercept one or two packets, they would not know which ones are placebo. It's practically untraceable, if enough volunteers can be found distributed all over the countries, in both red and blue states.
And just how much trouble can individual relayer get into? Who's going to sue them? What prosecutor would go after individual relayers?
This is just my wild idea. Please poke holes in it.
posted by kschang at 10:43 PM on May 2, 2022 [7 favorites]
1) I believe that letting individual states have a say on such a fundamental issue is a recipe for disaster. There are some things that should NOT be left up to the states, and if the Justices really think that's the way forward, they are taking a very short-sighted view in an attempt to "right" the wrongs of a past court, neglecting what damage they will do in turn when they should consider what the ramifications would be if they over turn RvW.
2) How illegal would it be, to setup a nation-wide network of volunteers, who receive something in the mail of which the content that may or may not contain RU486 and its follow up drug, and upon receiving a certain anon request that can be validated, drop a certain package in the mail addressed to a certain address or POBox?
Imagine something like this: 100 volunteers, each elected to receive a package containing 100 packets of pills. Some of which will be real RU486 and its follow up drug, some of which are placebo only. They are serialized, so whoever sent the package knows which is which. But the recipient will not know.
Upon a certain notification, a certain number of these volunteers will take package X from their "inventory", verify via a barcode, put stamps on it, and drop it in the mail. They would not know if what they sent was the real drugs or placebo. All they did was added an address label and added postage.
The notification can be PGP encrypted, and thus authenticated and verified to be genuine.
The recipient will receive encrypted instructions to identify which packages contain the drugs and the proper dosage instructions, as if they came from a OB/GYN or PP.
I would expect such a network to be practically untraceable and a waste of time to go after. instead of in sets of 100. Maybe sets of 12, or 5, or even a single packet. Even if they were able to intercept one or two packets, they would not know which ones are placebo. It's practically untraceable, if enough volunteers can be found distributed all over the countries, in both red and blue states.
And just how much trouble can individual relayer get into? Who's going to sue them? What prosecutor would go after individual relayers?
This is just my wild idea. Please poke holes in it.
posted by kschang at 10:43 PM on May 2, 2022 [7 favorites]
This is just my wild idea. Please poke holes in it.
Well, for starters you are transporting drugs across state lines. The "easy" way is to just move the person out of that jurisdiction.
But if we're talking crazy ideas, how about using the Texas law to sue the governor for maintaining the roads out of state. Well, Sec. 171.211 appears to specifically indemnify state officials, but how about refineries for making the gasoline busses would need to transport them?
posted by pwnguin at 11:08 PM on May 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
Well, for starters you are transporting drugs across state lines. The "easy" way is to just move the person out of that jurisdiction.
But if we're talking crazy ideas, how about using the Texas law to sue the governor for maintaining the roads out of state. Well, Sec. 171.211 appears to specifically indemnify state officials, but how about refineries for making the gasoline busses would need to transport them?
posted by pwnguin at 11:08 PM on May 2, 2022 [3 favorites]
Well, for starters you are transporting drugs across state lines. The "easy" way is to just move the person out of that jurisdiction.
An easier way would be to just put RU486 in an envelope and mail it with a fake return address without worrying too much.
When the states get serious about RU486 sniffing dogs then you can get more fancy.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:46 PM on May 2, 2022 [14 favorites]
An easier way would be to just put RU486 in an envelope and mail it with a fake return address without worrying too much.
When the states get serious about RU486 sniffing dogs then you can get more fancy.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:46 PM on May 2, 2022 [14 favorites]
kschang, I can't see the point of the placebo pills. At what point can the person who wants an abortion be sure they've gotten real pills?
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 11:48 PM on May 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 11:48 PM on May 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
@Nancy Lebovitz asked What's the point of the placebo pills?
To disguise the fact that s/he, the participant may be breaking USPS prohibition on mailing prescription drugs while NOT being a pharmacy or medical provider.
The basic idea is the relay mailer may or may not be doing something illegal. S/he does NOT KNOW, because s/he does not know the content of the packet s/he is mailing.
I am thinking that the recipient, using some sort of authentication program, will be able to decode after receiving X number of packets and be informed which packet is the real thing, and which packet is the follow up. The rest are placebo, no active ingredient.
posted by kschang at 12:07 AM on May 3, 2022
To disguise the fact that s/he, the participant may be breaking USPS prohibition on mailing prescription drugs while NOT being a pharmacy or medical provider.
The basic idea is the relay mailer may or may not be doing something illegal. S/he does NOT KNOW, because s/he does not know the content of the packet s/he is mailing.
I am thinking that the recipient, using some sort of authentication program, will be able to decode after receiving X number of packets and be informed which packet is the real thing, and which packet is the follow up. The rest are placebo, no active ingredient.
posted by kschang at 12:07 AM on May 3, 2022
Just to clarify my wild idea...
@pwnguin -- personally, it's easier to mail a small packet of drugs than to move a person out of a large state like Texas. If Darknet merchants can use USPS to move controlled substances, a few RU486 and the follow-up pill ought to easily pass under the radar, esp. in small amounts,esp when the network is also processing a bunch of placebo pills.
The general idea is a computer program will be randomly choosing the actual sender of the drug and randomly choosing senders of placebo. A request goes into the system with a name and address, and requests are sent out to a list of participants.
To be redundant, multiple machines around the country can be sharing in the decision in a round-robin format. Since traffic among them is minimum, taking one offline will unlikely interrupt the others for long. Databases can be encrypted and replicated, and remotely hosted. Even with the NSA's power, it should be hard to track.
Personally vetting the relayers would be the hardest part.
posted by kschang at 12:23 AM on May 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
@pwnguin -- personally, it's easier to mail a small packet of drugs than to move a person out of a large state like Texas. If Darknet merchants can use USPS to move controlled substances, a few RU486 and the follow-up pill ought to easily pass under the radar, esp. in small amounts,esp when the network is also processing a bunch of placebo pills.
The general idea is a computer program will be randomly choosing the actual sender of the drug and randomly choosing senders of placebo. A request goes into the system with a name and address, and requests are sent out to a list of participants.
To be redundant, multiple machines around the country can be sharing in the decision in a round-robin format. Since traffic among them is minimum, taking one offline will unlikely interrupt the others for long. Databases can be encrypted and replicated, and remotely hosted. Even with the NSA's power, it should be hard to track.
Personally vetting the relayers would be the hardest part.
posted by kschang at 12:23 AM on May 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
IANAL but the problem I see with kschang’s complicated scheme is that everyone involved in it knows damn well the whole point of it is to move controlled substances across state lines, the law is not going to care if you *actually* mailed the RU486 or a placebo, you chose to get involved in a conspiracy to move illegal drugs and that’s illegal enough to hang some charges on.
posted by egypturnash at 12:37 AM on May 3, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by egypturnash at 12:37 AM on May 3, 2022 [9 favorites]
Needlessly complicated when all that’s necessary is spreading the knowledge about period evacuation. A safe reliable way to ensure you don’t need to distribute drugs, and can be easily taught and cheaply done.
posted by Bottlecap at 1:04 AM on May 3, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by Bottlecap at 1:04 AM on May 3, 2022 [9 favorites]
My point being - many organizations and networks are already providing these services to pregnant people in America when no longer wish to be pregnant and can’t do so above board. There’s Women on Waves and many smaller networks. There’s absolutely no need to reinvent the wheel. Directing resources towards people already providing these services - like planned parenthood - will be a much better use of time and energy. There are a ton of transportation funds for people who need to cross state lines, and abortion will still be legal in many states. Contribute to those funds.
posted by Bottlecap at 1:09 AM on May 3, 2022 [22 favorites]
posted by Bottlecap at 1:09 AM on May 3, 2022 [22 favorites]
@egypturnash -- everyone involved in it knows damn well the whole point of it is to move controlled substances across state lines
RU486 and similar drugs are NOT controlled substances. They are under REMS (risk evaluation / mitigation system) category. And in 2021, the REMS was loosened so there is no more "in-person dispensing" requirements. It does however, require the dispensing pharmacy to be "certified" to handle REMS, presumably to enable better tracking. The problem is not moving it across state lines, but getting certified, presumably.
Historically, the law is more lenient against the "mules" of a scheme.
@bobblecap -- I agree physical evacuation of the victims should be priority, but as more and more southern states pass similar laws, the distances needed for such evacuation and the associated costs will go up. Texas already lost almost all of its PP clinics, and Oklohoma, its neighbor, is not far behind. And Texas is a pretty darn big state. There needs to be a backup plan for people who who somehow missed the "6 week" window (in reality it is more like 1 week) and cannot find time to "take a trip", even for 48 hours, until there's no hiding it any more.
posted by kschang at 1:48 AM on May 3, 2022
RU486 and similar drugs are NOT controlled substances. They are under REMS (risk evaluation / mitigation system) category. And in 2021, the REMS was loosened so there is no more "in-person dispensing" requirements. It does however, require the dispensing pharmacy to be "certified" to handle REMS, presumably to enable better tracking. The problem is not moving it across state lines, but getting certified, presumably.
Historically, the law is more lenient against the "mules" of a scheme.
@bobblecap -- I agree physical evacuation of the victims should be priority, but as more and more southern states pass similar laws, the distances needed for such evacuation and the associated costs will go up. Texas already lost almost all of its PP clinics, and Oklohoma, its neighbor, is not far behind. And Texas is a pretty darn big state. There needs to be a backup plan for people who who somehow missed the "6 week" window (in reality it is more like 1 week) and cannot find time to "take a trip", even for 48 hours, until there's no hiding it any more.
posted by kschang at 1:48 AM on May 3, 2022
kschang, you might want to follow that "evacuation" link in Bottlecap's post. It refers not to the evacuation of people from a state, but of menstrual blood and other uterine contents from the uterus. It's an at-home abortion technique that can be safely done and has been practiced for decades.
posted by antinomia at 3:22 AM on May 3, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by antinomia at 3:22 AM on May 3, 2022 [11 favorites]
In this episode of the Science VS podcast they interview the women who started the menstrual extraction movement, teaching it to women all over the country back when abortion was illegal.
posted by antinomia at 3:34 AM on May 3, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by antinomia at 3:34 AM on May 3, 2022 [6 favorites]
A little over a year ago historian Sarah Churchwell was interviewed on the Talking Politics podcast about how evangelicals went from supporting abortion to opposing it over the course of the 1970s.
posted by Kattullus at 3:45 AM on May 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by Kattullus at 3:45 AM on May 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
@antinomia -- reminds me of old Chinese period dramas where different concubines of the emperor fighting for favors hired "fetal assassins" who can cause spontaneous miscarriages by accessing woman's meridian points. That, AFAIK, was fictional. But it seems to have SOME basis in reality.
Pray that such menstrual evacuation instructions remain legal to access, as you-know-who will try to clamp down on that as "practicing medicine".
posted by kschang at 3:50 AM on May 3, 2022
Pray that such menstrual evacuation instructions remain legal to access, as you-know-who will try to clamp down on that as "practicing medicine".
posted by kschang at 3:50 AM on May 3, 2022
But if we're talking crazy ideas, how about using the Texas law to sue the governor for maintaining the roads out of state. Well, Sec. 171.211 appears to specifically indemnify state officials, but how about refineries for making the gasoline busses would need to transport them?
Or finding a woman who got knocked up by a red-state politician and was then paid to secretly get an abortion, and having HER sue him for "causing an abortion"?
Because you know one of these fuckers did precisely that.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:18 AM on May 3, 2022 [8 favorites]
Or finding a woman who got knocked up by a red-state politician and was then paid to secretly get an abortion, and having HER sue him for "causing an abortion"?
Because you know one of these fuckers did precisely that.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:18 AM on May 3, 2022 [8 favorites]
Setting up some kind of blockchain for legal protections is considerably less expedient than accepting the responsibility to commit necessary crimes.
posted by Jon_Evil at 5:29 AM on May 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Jon_Evil at 5:29 AM on May 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
As someone who has worked in the abortion access movement for over 20 years, I just want folks to know that there are already many organizations ON THE GROUND who are working to ensure that people who need abortion care can get it no matter what. Abortion funds, practical support organizations, and grassroots advocacy organizations know what needs to happen as the fight moves to the states. We don't need to re-create systems that already exist... here's just a few of the places you can direct your help, time and support. Check out the National Network of Abortion Funds, Plan C, Self Managed Abortion: Safe and Secure. My organization Abortion Access Front is having a virtual training day that will showcase many key players doing important work, and also break down the various way people can be activists and volunteers. Sign up at Operation Save Abortion for more info.
For sure get out in those streets in the coming days and week. But also be ready to lend your support in concrete ways, taking the lead from those who do this work best. And when things go underground, you'll be better connected to know how to help.
posted by kimdog at 5:46 AM on May 3, 2022 [88 favorites]
For sure get out in those streets in the coming days and week. But also be ready to lend your support in concrete ways, taking the lead from those who do this work best. And when things go underground, you'll be better connected to know how to help.
posted by kimdog at 5:46 AM on May 3, 2022 [88 favorites]
Since we're going back to the underground, rather than going full darknet and blockchain, I suspect that, should someone in a state with an abortion ban find themselves needing a sympathetic ear and good counsel, most -- if not all -- of the women working at a "gentleman's club" have the insight to provide that for you. And they may even have what you need in the dressing room.
posted by mikelieman at 5:56 AM on May 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by mikelieman at 5:56 AM on May 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
I feel like a lot of you are missing the forest for the trees here. Creating elaborate back-channel ways for people in red states to get drugs mailed them doesn't solve the core problem, which is the lack of easy availability of reproductive care. Anti-choice advocates aren't trying to lock down every avenue for acquiring RU-486; they're trying to add just enough hurdles that poor women in desperate situations won't be able to terminate their pregnancy through channels they know how to access. (After all, if it became totally impossible to access abortions, how would all those republican politicians be able to quietly find grey-market services for their daughters/mistresses?) If you're a tech-savvy native English-speaker, you'll be able to find ways around state-level abortion bans, no matter what the court does to Roe. If you're working 60 hours a week for minimum wage, you're probably not going to have the time or the savvy to find the out-of-state resources you need to hook onto to avoid your own state's laws (and your state will almost certainly lock down any efforts to publicize those resources). Meanwhile, the clock is ticking, and all the anti-choice zealots have to do is throw enough obstacles in your path to delay your efforts for a month or two, at which point it's no longer safe to terminate the pregnancy without medical supervision.
At the point where we're relying on elaborate schemes administered from afar, we've already given up on the most vulnerable populations of women.
posted by Mayor West at 6:29 AM on May 3, 2022 [30 favorites]
At the point where we're relying on elaborate schemes administered from afar, we've already given up on the most vulnerable populations of women.
posted by Mayor West at 6:29 AM on May 3, 2022 [30 favorites]
Mayor West - we can work on all fronts. There absolutely needs to be a continued fight to retain reproductive rights and access to reproductive care. However, if that fight takes time and we lose some ground temporarily, there also needs to be a way to help people in the short term.
It's like: there are countries who support Ukraine by sending them arms, and there are also countries who support Ukrainians by taking in refugees. Assisting Ukrainian refugees doesn't mean that the world has given up on Ukraine actually winning the war with Russia, it just means that we're taking care of the people who are displaced while that war is happening.
Similarly: "relying on elaborate schemes administered from afar" doesn't mean that we're "giving up on the most vulnerable populations of women". It just means that we're taking care of those women while the legal battle is waged.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:41 AM on May 3, 2022 [12 favorites]
It's like: there are countries who support Ukraine by sending them arms, and there are also countries who support Ukrainians by taking in refugees. Assisting Ukrainian refugees doesn't mean that the world has given up on Ukraine actually winning the war with Russia, it just means that we're taking care of the people who are displaced while that war is happening.
Similarly: "relying on elaborate schemes administered from afar" doesn't mean that we're "giving up on the most vulnerable populations of women". It just means that we're taking care of those women while the legal battle is waged.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:41 AM on May 3, 2022 [12 favorites]
This is just my wild idea. Please poke holes in it.
Postal system barely functions anymore, because they're dismantling it on purpose, just FYI.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 6:59 AM on May 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
Postal system barely functions anymore, because they're dismantling it on purpose, just FYI.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 6:59 AM on May 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
Needlessly complicated when all that’s necessary is spreading the knowledge about period evacuation.
Yes, this is what the podcast I linked to is about - I had never heard of this before myself - it interviews people involved with distributing these devices, as well as fitting-out vans (with bullet-proof glass) that can be driven into red states to provide people abortions (and then driven out). It also discusses their history.
posted by coffeecat at 7:03 AM on May 3, 2022
Yes, this is what the podcast I linked to is about - I had never heard of this before myself - it interviews people involved with distributing these devices, as well as fitting-out vans (with bullet-proof glass) that can be driven into red states to provide people abortions (and then driven out). It also discusses their history.
posted by coffeecat at 7:03 AM on May 3, 2022
This is just my wild idea. Please poke holes in it.
Forced-birth advocates infiltrate the network and send out the placebos instead of the drugs.
posted by corey flood at 7:04 AM on May 3, 2022
Forced-birth advocates infiltrate the network and send out the placebos instead of the drugs.
posted by corey flood at 7:04 AM on May 3, 2022
Again, how can a recipient be sure they're gotten real pills?
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 8:04 AM on May 3, 2022
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 8:04 AM on May 3, 2022
There is a specific, longstanding (since 1948) Federal statute barring the sending of abortifacients (and, at least in the past, contraceptive devices), among other "obscene" items, through the US Mail. See 18 U.S. Code § 1461, which is referenced by the USPS Domestic Mail Manual (DMM).
Since the law is already on the books, it's effectively a "trigger statute" if anyone felt like enforcing it. I would assume that will happen whenever the bulk of abortions shift from surgical to medical (pill-based) and the anti-choice shitheels notice.
I foresee a very ugly cat-and-mouse game until there is a Federal statute finally protecting abortion rights.
posted by Kadin2048 at 8:25 AM on May 3, 2022 [6 favorites]
Every obscene, lewd, lascivious, indecent, filthy or vile article, matter, thing, device, or substance; and—It hasn't been enforced in a long time, presumably because of Griswold and Roe, but there's nothing keeping a mendacious Postmaster General from starting to. And it is surprisingly hard to get rid of an appointed Postmaster General.
Every article or thing designed, adapted, or intended for producing abortion, or for any indecent or immoral use; and
Every article, instrument, substance, drug, medicine, or thing which is advertised or described in a manner calculated to lead another to use or apply it for producing abortion, or for any indecent or immoral purpose; and
Every written or printed card, letter, circular, book, pamphlet, advertisement, or notice of any kind giving information, directly or indirectly, where, or how, or from whom, or by what means any of such mentioned matters, articles, or things may be obtained or made, or where or by whom any act or operation of any kind for the procuring or producing of abortion will be done or performed, or how or by what means abortion may be produced, whether sealed or unsealed; and
Every paper, writing, advertisement, or representation that any article, instrument, substance, drug, medicine, or thing may, or can, be used or applied for producing abortion, or for any indecent or immoral purpose; and
Every description calculated to induce or incite a person to so use or apply any such article, instrument, substance, drug, medicine, or thing—
Is declared to be nonmailable matter and shall not be conveyed in the mails or delivered from any post office or by any letter carrier.
Since the law is already on the books, it's effectively a "trigger statute" if anyone felt like enforcing it. I would assume that will happen whenever the bulk of abortions shift from surgical to medical (pill-based) and the anti-choice shitheels notice.
I foresee a very ugly cat-and-mouse game until there is a Federal statute finally protecting abortion rights.
posted by Kadin2048 at 8:25 AM on May 3, 2022 [6 favorites]
This speculation on cloak-and-dagger mechanisms to provide medicine through the mail is a little unseemly. As kimdog says there's groups working on this kind of thing on the ground already. They could use our support right now.
I'm on a trip to Texas so that's on my mind. Just donated to the Lilith Fund and Texas Equal Access Fund. There are many other options local and national. kimdog's suggestion of the National Network of Abortion Funds was particularly helpful to me.
But on the topic of whether mail order pills can help, absolutely! It may or may not be legal, Texas for instance has passed a law threatening jail to doctors prescribing the wrong kind of FDA-approved medicine to Texans. Whether that law is enforceable or not is hard to say, and in practice there are no RU486 sniffing dogs (as remarked above). The Economist had a short overview of the state of mail-order abortion pills in the US a few months ago.
I'm on a trip to Texas so that's on my mind. Just donated to the Lilith Fund and Texas Equal Access Fund. There are many other options local and national. kimdog's suggestion of the National Network of Abortion Funds was particularly helpful to me.
But on the topic of whether mail order pills can help, absolutely! It may or may not be legal, Texas for instance has passed a law threatening jail to doctors prescribing the wrong kind of FDA-approved medicine to Texans. Whether that law is enforceable or not is hard to say, and in practice there are no RU486 sniffing dogs (as remarked above). The Economist had a short overview of the state of mail-order abortion pills in the US a few months ago.
In December the FDA lifted its most onerous requirement, that women collect the first of the two drugs used to end pregnancies from a clinic or medical office in person. ...posted by Nelson at 8:59 AM on May 3, 2022 [9 favorites]
The successes of America’s anti-abortion movement will limit the impact of the FDA’s action, however. Some 19 states have laws requiring a doctor to be present when mifepristone is taken. In December Texas introduced harsh jail sentences and a $10,000 fine for anyone who prescribed abortion medication by telemedicine.
Since the law is already on the books, it's effectively a "trigger statute" if anyone felt like enforcing it. I would assume that will happen whenever the bulk of abortions shift from surgical to medical (pill-based) and the anti-choice shitheels notice.
Luckily, the sheer volume of mail the USPS handles on a daily basis makes it extremely difficult/impractical for them to intercept almost anything that isn’t screamingly clearly labeled as “something illegal!!!” All manner of illegal substances find their way through the USPS system on a daily basis.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:05 AM on May 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
Luckily, the sheer volume of mail the USPS handles on a daily basis makes it extremely difficult/impractical for them to intercept almost anything that isn’t screamingly clearly labeled as “something illegal!!!” All manner of illegal substances find their way through the USPS system on a daily basis.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:05 AM on May 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
I don’t want to get into detail on for obvious reasons, but I happen to know there are already plenty of ways to get prescription drugs mailed to you with no undue fuss. Fill out a form on a website and wait for your package of “health supplements.” It’s not complicated.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:10 AM on May 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:10 AM on May 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
Del em. Del em. Del em.
posted by Ardnamurchan at 9:47 AM on May 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Ardnamurchan at 9:47 AM on May 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
Del em. Del em. Del em.
What does this mean?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:10 AM on May 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
What does this mean?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:10 AM on May 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
Del em.
Looks like the brand name of a menstrual extraction kit.
posted by abulafa at 11:14 AM on May 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
Looks like the brand name of a menstrual extraction kit.
posted by abulafa at 11:14 AM on May 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
Big FYI for those planning to stockpile Plan B: it has a weight limit of 155 pounds. There are many many people for whom it is ineffective and should not be relied on.
posted by Bottlecap at 11:15 AM on May 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by Bottlecap at 11:15 AM on May 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
Big FYI for those planning to stockpile Plan B: it has a weight limit of 155 pounds. There are many many people for whom it is ineffective and should not be relied on.
AGAIN: The data on the supposed weight limit is inconclusive, at best, and the FDA recommends it for all, "regardless of how much they weigh".
posted by Ahmad Khani at 11:39 AM on May 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
AGAIN: The data on the supposed weight limit is inconclusive, at best, and the FDA recommends it for all, "regardless of how much they weigh".
posted by Ahmad Khani at 11:39 AM on May 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
I predict a nation-wide resurgence of the Jane Project/Collective.
In the meantime, TicTac boxes would be dandy in which to distribute morning-after meds.
Ladies, if you’re discarding your pill-form contraception for any reason, flush them down a frat-house toilet, or the toilet of the nearest right wing “think tank.” Get it in the water supply nearest where it’s needed most.
posted by BostonTerrier at 1:02 PM on May 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
In the meantime, TicTac boxes would be dandy in which to distribute morning-after meds.
Ladies, if you’re discarding your pill-form contraception for any reason, flush them down a frat-house toilet, or the toilet of the nearest right wing “think tank.” Get it in the water supply nearest where it’s needed most.
posted by BostonTerrier at 1:02 PM on May 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
Postal system barely functions anymore, because they're dismantling it on purpose, just FYI.
drug dealers use fed ex - if it isn't absolutely, positively there overnight they know it's been inspected and won't pick it up - if it does get there in time, then the feds haven't have time to look at it
posted by pyramid termite at 1:36 PM on May 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
drug dealers use fed ex - if it isn't absolutely, positively there overnight they know it's been inspected and won't pick it up - if it does get there in time, then the feds haven't have time to look at it
posted by pyramid termite at 1:36 PM on May 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
> Del em. Del em. Del em.
What does this mean?
As abulafa says, it's a (relatively) DIY "menstrual extraction" device that can be used for early (first-trimester) abortions. A recent Atlantic article discusses both it and other possible options for DIY and underground abortion provision in a post-Roe world. And yes, shipping medication - Plan C - is one of the options, with all the caveats discussed here.
posted by ASF Tod und Schwerkraft at 1:41 PM on May 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
What does this mean?
As abulafa says, it's a (relatively) DIY "menstrual extraction" device that can be used for early (first-trimester) abortions. A recent Atlantic article discusses both it and other possible options for DIY and underground abortion provision in a post-Roe world. And yes, shipping medication - Plan C - is one of the options, with all the caveats discussed here.
posted by ASF Tod und Schwerkraft at 1:41 PM on May 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
Del em is what the link was mostly about, wasn't it? The DIY heard-about-it-at-a-hacker-conference abortion option?
posted by clawsoon at 2:12 PM on May 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by clawsoon at 2:12 PM on May 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
...and the link is an interview with the author of the Atlantic article?
posted by clawsoon at 2:12 PM on May 3, 2022
posted by clawsoon at 2:12 PM on May 3, 2022
Yes, as the podcast that this post links to talks about, DLM, originally stands for "Dirty Little Machine" is an extraction device. (The podcast is not about pill options) I really recommend folks listen to the episode, it's fascinating!
posted by coffeecat at 3:12 PM on May 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by coffeecat at 3:12 PM on May 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
Del em. Del em. Del em.
Now I’m hearing it to the tune of the Pink Panther theme. Del em. Del em. Del em, Del em, Del em, Del em Del eeeem, De-e-el em.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:26 PM on May 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
Now I’m hearing it to the tune of the Pink Panther theme. Del em. Del em. Del em, Del em, Del em, Del em Del eeeem, De-e-el em.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:26 PM on May 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
While Del em is great, let's not forget the case of Lizelle Herrera... She got charged with murder for self-induced abortion. While the Texas law is mainly aimed toward providers, it's pretty clear that SOMEONE presented enough of a case to the grand jury to get an indictment... And it may not be the last.
posted by kschang at 11:34 PM on May 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by kschang at 11:34 PM on May 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
> ...and the link is an interview with the author of the Atlantic article?
Yup, the article is just easier to read than a podcast transcript, if you're the type who prefers reading to listening to stuff (as is often my preference). Sorry that wasn't clear!
posted by ASF Tod und Schwerkraft at 11:50 PM on May 3, 2022
Yup, the article is just easier to read than a podcast transcript, if you're the type who prefers reading to listening to stuff (as is often my preference). Sorry that wasn't clear!
posted by ASF Tod und Schwerkraft at 11:50 PM on May 3, 2022
(don't flush your contraceptive pills in the water ways, it makes fishes sterile)
posted by thegirlwiththehat at 11:56 PM on May 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by thegirlwiththehat at 11:56 PM on May 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
While Del em is great, let's not forget the case of Lizelle Herrera... She got charged with murder for self-induced abortion.
Yes, but as the podcast/article gets into, should something go wrong using a DIY extraction device, it will look identical to a miscarriage complication - so you would just need to be taken to an ER and say "I think I'm having a miscarriage."
posted by coffeecat at 4:54 PM on May 4, 2022
Yes, but as the podcast/article gets into, should something go wrong using a DIY extraction device, it will look identical to a miscarriage complication - so you would just need to be taken to an ER and say "I think I'm having a miscarriage."
posted by coffeecat at 4:54 PM on May 4, 2022
it will look identical to a miscarriage complication - so you would just need to be taken to an ER and say "I think I'm having a miscarriage."
US women are being jailed for having miscarriages
...especially if you're a woman of colour, and especially if you have any history of drug use.
posted by clawsoon at 4:31 AM on May 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
US women are being jailed for having miscarriages
...especially if you're a woman of colour, and especially if you have any history of drug use.
posted by clawsoon at 4:31 AM on May 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
clawsoon, I followed your link and that's a bit of a misrepresentation - the article notes that in some states there are fetal endangerment laws in place that make it possible to charge women with a crime who miscarry because of drug use. Which I agree, is totally f'd up, and points to why getting people abortion pills isn't without risks. But I'm not sure how this applies to using extraction devices, as they leave no physical trace?
But certainly, part of what needs to happen is education on what one's rights are, and what to say and what not to say to doctors.
posted by coffeecat at 12:58 PM on May 5, 2022
But certainly, part of what needs to happen is education on what one's rights are, and what to say and what not to say to doctors.
posted by coffeecat at 12:58 PM on May 5, 2022
What Americans Can Expect If Abortion Pills Become Their Only Safe Option by Maggie Koerth and Amelia Thomson-DeVeaux, FiveThirtyEight
posted by Kadin2048 at 11:43 PM on May 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Kadin2048 at 11:43 PM on May 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Kadin2048 Thanks for posting that FiveThirtyEight article. There’s a misconception out there that when women experience miscarriage (the end result of 20% of pregnancies), they always know about it and the fetus just comes out on its own. Often, a woman goes to a routine appointment, gets an ultrasound, is informed that the fetal pulse has stopped, and in this moment of shock is given three options: to wait for weeks for the body to possibly expel the nonviable fetus (doesn’t always work), to get a D&C, or to use misoprostol. The last two options are the same procedures used in traditional and pharmaceutical abortion, with the obvious difference that after miscarriage the fetus is no longer developing.
After my miscarriage, I chose the misoprostol. The first dose gave me light cramps for 24 hours, but did not expel the tissue. The second dose woke me up in immense pain at 3:00 am. Pain that got so bad that by 4:30 I could hardly talk when I woke up my husband and said I needed to go to urgent care right then. People talk about how post-Roe will be easier in some ways because these pills exist, but I can’t stop thinking about people who might have a similar experience to mine with misoprostol but couldn’t get that pain treated out of fear of being arrested. Campaigns against the use of misoprostol in a post-Roe America could also create a chilling effect on doctors using it in cases of miscarriage for fear of litigation, which leads me to think on how much more emotionally wrenching my miscarriage would have been for me if I had had to wait to clear the tissue for weeks.
posted by donut_princess at 7:50 AM on May 6, 2022 [8 favorites]
After my miscarriage, I chose the misoprostol. The first dose gave me light cramps for 24 hours, but did not expel the tissue. The second dose woke me up in immense pain at 3:00 am. Pain that got so bad that by 4:30 I could hardly talk when I woke up my husband and said I needed to go to urgent care right then. People talk about how post-Roe will be easier in some ways because these pills exist, but I can’t stop thinking about people who might have a similar experience to mine with misoprostol but couldn’t get that pain treated out of fear of being arrested. Campaigns against the use of misoprostol in a post-Roe America could also create a chilling effect on doctors using it in cases of miscarriage for fear of litigation, which leads me to think on how much more emotionally wrenching my miscarriage would have been for me if I had had to wait to clear the tissue for weeks.
posted by donut_princess at 7:50 AM on May 6, 2022 [8 favorites]
Latest dev... Louisiana is trying to pass a law to classify abortion as murder.
If this goes into law, that means EVERY miscarriage will become a murder investigation. You can imagine police canvassing a grieving women's home for signs of RU486 or devices such as Del Em and produce that as evidence for their "murder" case.
While it's unlikely to pass Constitutional review, the fact that these law-makers are considering it, is troubling in itself.
posted by kschang at 8:21 AM on May 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
If this goes into law, that means EVERY miscarriage will become a murder investigation. You can imagine police canvassing a grieving women's home for signs of RU486 or devices such as Del Em and produce that as evidence for their "murder" case.
While it's unlikely to pass Constitutional review, the fact that these law-makers are considering it, is troubling in itself.
posted by kschang at 8:21 AM on May 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
I skimmed this thread for references to this, but I've been seeing some reports online that if you use a period/cycle tracking app you may want to consider deleting it or ceasing use of it as many of these apps openly or covertly sell the data, which if you live in a state or situation where this data could be legally used against you it could be super bad news.
Which probably means even offline paper/calendar tracking could also similarly be used against you in the case of criminalized abortions or miscarriages.
If things get really invasive and bad I'm not sure what would be a safe and useful solution to this whether it's using some kind of manual code on paper or very strong cryptography on some kind of offline text file or spreadsheet.
Even then you could be court ordered to reveal any cryptographic passwords or keys or be held and jailed in contempt of court.
Even typing this makes me want to throw up with anxiety and bad feelings. This is some crazy dystopian bullshit that makes the fictional world of Aeon Flux or Gattaca look kind and benevolent.
posted by loquacious at 8:57 AM on May 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
Which probably means even offline paper/calendar tracking could also similarly be used against you in the case of criminalized abortions or miscarriages.
If things get really invasive and bad I'm not sure what would be a safe and useful solution to this whether it's using some kind of manual code on paper or very strong cryptography on some kind of offline text file or spreadsheet.
Even then you could be court ordered to reveal any cryptographic passwords or keys or be held and jailed in contempt of court.
Even typing this makes me want to throw up with anxiety and bad feelings. This is some crazy dystopian bullshit that makes the fictional world of Aeon Flux or Gattaca look kind and benevolent.
posted by loquacious at 8:57 AM on May 6, 2022 [4 favorites]
How Abortion Pills Changed the Political Debate in Ireland - "What we're going to see is probably just the increase in international providers like in Aid Access, based outside but able to ship pills directly to people in the US, in a kind of legal gray area."
posted by kliuless at 10:49 PM on May 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
CFM: Pills will not be the answer for everyone, though.Employer Coverage of Travel Costs for Out-of-State Abortion - "Companies are publicly announcing that they will cover travel expenses for workers who need to travel out-of-state for abortion if it is banned where they live. Yelp, Citigroup, Apple, Microsoft, and Amazon are among the growing number of large companies that have announced this benefit."
SC: The best evidence we have now shows that people in the first trimester who are choosing between surgical and medication often prefer medication abortion, because it’s more autonomous, more private, less invasive. But people need abortions across the duration of pregnancy for many different reasons, like with a severe fetal anomaly found late in the second trimester.
As far as the legality of medication abortion across state borders after Roe is overturned, it’s hard to say, in part because the conservative legal movement is fiendishly creative in the mechanisms they develop to criminalize abortion — as we’ve seen in Texas with private prosecutions, this model of allowing people to bring civil actions against anyone for assisting with an abortion in their state.
Right now, medication abortion follows some of the same patterns as surgical abortion, and telemedicine services can be limited by state licensing. So if you live in Texas, a provider in California can’t necessarily send you pills. If pills are going to move across state borders, which they already do, it’s going to be in clandestine formats. In fact, what we’re going to see is probably just the increase in international providers like in Aid Access, based outside but able to ship pills directly to people in the US, in a kind of legal gray area.
CFM: Does this effectively undermine the law?
SC: For me, that is one of the most interesting political dimensions of medication abortion. As a medical technology, it’s dramatically transformed the safety and accessibility of abortion. But as a political technology, it’s really transformed the relationship between pregnant people and the state. It’s challenging the extent to which the state can regulate abortion, because, historically, states have tried to criminalize abortion by regulating the abortion provider, by criminalizing doctors and their actions. Plenty of places, like Poland for instance, don’t criminalize the person who obtains an abortion, which can provide a kind of interesting legal loophole for activists to use.
The case of the Republic of Ireland is an interesting one, because they had penalties in their laws that allowed for up to 14 years in prison for someone who used abortion pills, but they never brought a single prosecution against a pill user. Whereas in Northern Ireland, they had different laws also criminalizing the use of abortion pills, but they did bring a few cases. Those provoked such backlash, they actually of accelerated changes in public opinion. When the public was confronted with the idea that abortion laws actually mean sending individual women to prison, people were unhappy with that. By contrast, in Poland, there have been more aggressive efforts to prosecute — right now, we’re seeing an activist be prosecuted for giving pills to someone who was trying to obtain an abortion while in an abusive relationship.
CFM: What about in the US?
SC: In the US, we’ve also seen prosecutions of people for self-managed abortion. But as with so many things in the American criminal justice system, it’s the poorest people who are being prosecuted, those who need to wait to raise money or find time off work. Prosecutions in the US, they’re also hyperlocal. And they really depend on kind of what your state laws are and whether your local prosecutor really wants to pursue this case. A motivated prosecutor who wants to criminalize someone for a self-managed abortion, they use a variety of arcane laws, everything from feticide, infanticide, sometimes practicing pharmacy without a license.
Medication abortion is medically indistinguishable from a spontaneous miscarriage, so if you were to have a self-managed abortion and present to a doctor, they wouldn’t be able to tell whether that was a spontaneous miscarriage — so the prosecution would have to use digital records. Just in recent years they have used people’s emails, their text messages, their Google searches, etc.
The potential legal implications for employers covering workers’ travel costs in a state with an abortion ban are still murky and untested. Many employers that are offering this benefit are incorporating it into their health insurance plans. The majority of large employers have self-funded health plans, meaning they are not regulated by states and therefore, state laws restricting abortion coverage or access do not apply to these plans. However, whether a state criminal law could be used against an employer that pays workers’ travel costs for an out-of-state abortion through a self-funded health plan is an open question.The Real Dividing Line On Abortion - "It's not about a procedure. It's about women's place in the world."
Shortly after Citigroup made its announcement that they would cover travel costs to obtain an abortion, a Texas state legislator accused the company of violating its state law that bans abortion after 6 weeks and which includes civil penalties for anyone who “aids or abets” an abortion outside of that timeframe. In the U.S. House and Senate, Republican lawmakers are also advocating for financial penalties for companies that cover workers travel costs to obtain an abortion.
posted by kliuless at 10:49 PM on May 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
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posted by foxfirefey at 9:30 PM on May 2, 2022 [14 favorites]