"Mononoke Hime, NO CUT!"
July 15, 2022 1:20 PM Subscribe
I attended Princess Mononoke’s first showing on opening night. The theater was full of families and small children, the aisles crowded with strollers.
When the opening action died down, you could hear the whole theater consumed by wailing toddlers and the apologies of parents as they gathered up and headed for the exits.
As amazing a movie as it is, without an advertising budget, lots of people had no idea what to expect, and I’m sure parents spread major negative buzz.
posted by Headfullofair at 1:47 PM on July 15, 2022 [21 favorites]
When the opening action died down, you could hear the whole theater consumed by wailing toddlers and the apologies of parents as they gathered up and headed for the exits.
As amazing a movie as it is, without an advertising budget, lots of people had no idea what to expect, and I’m sure parents spread major negative buzz.
posted by Headfullofair at 1:47 PM on July 15, 2022 [21 favorites]
My first exposure to the movie was sleeping over at my friend's house; her mom was Japanese and spoke Japanese, but my friend didn't speak it. We watched it in Japanese (I don't remember if it was the Japanese VHS or my friend insisting on watching a DVD with no English subtitles on; I wouldn't put it past her to have done that) with my friend attempting to "translate" based on what she remembered from watching with her mom with her mom translating. This was at like, 1 in the morning mind you, with her also getting sleepy, and a little slap happy.
So my understanding of the film was...garbled, to say the least, but I was still completely bowled over by it and I'm pretty sure we rewatched it at least once.
If a 14 year old could see the movie like that, and still get it, I think that very much proves Miyazaki's point about minimal alterations for an American audience.
posted by damayanti at 1:49 PM on July 15, 2022 [14 favorites]
So my understanding of the film was...garbled, to say the least, but I was still completely bowled over by it and I'm pretty sure we rewatched it at least once.
If a 14 year old could see the movie like that, and still get it, I think that very much proves Miyazaki's point about minimal alterations for an American audience.
posted by damayanti at 1:49 PM on July 15, 2022 [14 favorites]
The term mononoke (物の怪), or もののけ, is not a name, but a Japanese word for supernatural, shape-shifting beings that possess people and cause suffering, disease, or death.
posted by pullayup at 2:18 PM on July 15, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by pullayup at 2:18 PM on July 15, 2022 [11 favorites]
Thanks for posting this! Although the film is truly beautiful, at the time I had reasons to hold all of Japanese culture at arms length (nothing to do with anyone Japanese, its complicated). Now I will rewatch it.
posted by mumimor at 2:32 PM on July 15, 2022
posted by mumimor at 2:32 PM on July 15, 2022
This YT video: Princess Mononoke Explained: Folklore and Yokai (This Will Make You Appreciate the Movie) powers through the significance of names, ethnicities, costumes, and hats in the movie.
posted by bouvin at 2:44 PM on July 15, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by bouvin at 2:44 PM on July 15, 2022 [7 favorites]
Never flummoxed. Forest Princess, giant wolves, evil slime.
My brother sent me a nice copy in japanese when he was a student there that "disappeared" and got told "yeah, but there's an English version now, so just get that"
I'm a fan of wolves, but still bugs me that some jerkass cokeheads stole my original copy.
posted by lkc at 2:47 PM on July 15, 2022 [5 favorites]
My brother sent me a nice copy in japanese when he was a student there that "disappeared" and got told "yeah, but there's an English version now, so just get that"
I'm a fan of wolves, but still bugs me that some jerkass cokeheads stole my original copy.
posted by lkc at 2:47 PM on July 15, 2022 [5 favorites]
And the English cast was fine, but animated movies were for kids and anything else was the Simpsons.
posted by lkc at 2:49 PM on July 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by lkc at 2:49 PM on July 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
When the opening action died down, you could hear the whole theater consumed by wailing toddlers and the apologies of parents as they gathered up and headed for the exits.
This was my experience in going to see Spirited Away; the theatre only had maybe 20 people in it but the high percentage of children children (many who were probably too small for a full length movie anyway) got bored very quickly.
posted by AzraelBrown at 2:58 PM on July 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
This was my experience in going to see Spirited Away; the theatre only had maybe 20 people in it but the high percentage of children children (many who were probably too small for a full length movie anyway) got bored very quickly.
posted by AzraelBrown at 2:58 PM on July 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
I saw this because of the Gaiman connection but I fell in love. This is genuinely one of my favorite movies (probably top 10 in a lot of ways). To me, while all of Miyazaki's movies are personal, this feels the closest to saying all the things he wants to say. It's just so amazing.
We did not have any small children at our screening but it was at a small indie theater at like 7:30 on Thanksgiving weekend so ...
My brother and I convinced my mom to go and her reaction when we left the theater was "I didn't expect it to be so beautiful."
And that's how I feel about this movie. It's so complicated and just ... beautiful.
posted by edencosmic at 4:19 PM on July 15, 2022 [8 favorites]
We did not have any small children at our screening but it was at a small indie theater at like 7:30 on Thanksgiving weekend so ...
My brother and I convinced my mom to go and her reaction when we left the theater was "I didn't expect it to be so beautiful."
And that's how I feel about this movie. It's so complicated and just ... beautiful.
posted by edencosmic at 4:19 PM on July 15, 2022 [8 favorites]
On Moviefone, it was "The Princess of Mononoke."
I saw it opening night with a group of college friends who knew exactly what were getting into, and it was great.
posted by grimmelm at 4:29 PM on July 15, 2022 [7 favorites]
I saw it opening night with a group of college friends who knew exactly what were getting into, and it was great.
posted by grimmelm at 4:29 PM on July 15, 2022 [7 favorites]
I saw it in the theatre and loved it even though at the time I thought Ghibli films tended to be slow (I fell asleep during Kiki's Delivery Service, more than once). In retrospect, Tarantino could have been in a good choice for the script -- at this point I feel like he's better than Gaiman with complicated women, or at least I can see The Bride and Lady Eboshi hanging out and having a conversation.
posted by betweenthebars at 4:31 PM on July 15, 2022
posted by betweenthebars at 4:31 PM on July 15, 2022
I'm another person who went to see Princess Mononoke because I was a Gaiman fan, but who left the theatre a major Miyazaki (and later Studio Ghibli in general) fan.
We watched it in Japanese ... with my friend attempting to "translate" based on what she remembered from watching with her mom with her mom translating.
I had a similar experience the first time I saw Spirited Away. It was a couple of years after I had seen the astoundingly beautiful Mononoke film, and I had the chance to go to a free showing of Spirited Away before it was widely released. I was so excited -- only to find that the theatre had received the wrong print. They had the Japanese language film with no subtitles. Fortunately, one person had seen it in France the year before. So there were 7 or 8 of us who stayed, watching the film, listening to the tone of the voices, and occasionally having explanations passed down the row for important plot points.
I think it was kind of magical: not having the words made me pay so much more attention to the visuals, movement and sound - I know I missed a lot of the story, but I came out feeling like I'd had a transformative experience. And it's still my favourite Studio Ghibli film (though Ponyo is a close second - I love ocean stuff).
The next year, Spirited Away was the first DVD I ever bought. A couple of years later, I got married and our friends clubbed together to buy us all of the Studio Ghibli films available in North America at the time - that was one of my favourite wedding gifts. Our collection is still growing.
posted by jb at 4:38 PM on July 15, 2022 [11 favorites]
We watched it in Japanese ... with my friend attempting to "translate" based on what she remembered from watching with her mom with her mom translating.
I had a similar experience the first time I saw Spirited Away. It was a couple of years after I had seen the astoundingly beautiful Mononoke film, and I had the chance to go to a free showing of Spirited Away before it was widely released. I was so excited -- only to find that the theatre had received the wrong print. They had the Japanese language film with no subtitles. Fortunately, one person had seen it in France the year before. So there were 7 or 8 of us who stayed, watching the film, listening to the tone of the voices, and occasionally having explanations passed down the row for important plot points.
I think it was kind of magical: not having the words made me pay so much more attention to the visuals, movement and sound - I know I missed a lot of the story, but I came out feeling like I'd had a transformative experience. And it's still my favourite Studio Ghibli film (though Ponyo is a close second - I love ocean stuff).
The next year, Spirited Away was the first DVD I ever bought. A couple of years later, I got married and our friends clubbed together to buy us all of the Studio Ghibli films available in North America at the time - that was one of my favourite wedding gifts. Our collection is still growing.
posted by jb at 4:38 PM on July 15, 2022 [11 favorites]
I was in my first year of university when this came out and saw it at an evening showing in downtown Toronto. I don't think there were any kids there. I can't remember who I went with or whose idea it would have been (not mine for sure!) but it was a great introduction to Studio Ghibli* and the works of Hayao Miyazaki. I don't think there were any ads on TV for it or anything like that but anime was enough of a thing at the time that with proper marketing it could have done a lot better.
I must have known about the Gaiman connection at the time but reading the article it came as a surprise to me, "oh, he wrote the script?"
*The best two Ghibli films are Only Yesterday and Grave of the Fireflies and were both directed by Isao Takahata but Miyazaki consistently made a lot of very good films while Takahata's output is a bit more uneven.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:50 PM on July 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
I must have known about the Gaiman connection at the time but reading the article it came as a surprise to me, "oh, he wrote the script?"
*The best two Ghibli films are Only Yesterday and Grave of the Fireflies and were both directed by Isao Takahata but Miyazaki consistently made a lot of very good films while Takahata's output is a bit more uneven.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:50 PM on July 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
I had no idea an English release would need a scriptwriter instead of just a good translator. How much does the content in English differ from the Japanese version?
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 4:53 PM on July 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 4:53 PM on July 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
...and I sure am glad Harvey Weinstein didn't get to cut the length dramatically. Christ, what an asshole.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 4:55 PM on July 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 4:55 PM on July 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
*The best two Ghibli films are Only Yesterday and Grave of the Fireflies
Grave of the Fireflies is the best damn movie that I will never, ever watch again.
posted by xedrik at 5:17 PM on July 15, 2022 [23 favorites]
Grave of the Fireflies is the best damn movie that I will never, ever watch again.
posted by xedrik at 5:17 PM on July 15, 2022 [23 favorites]
I saw it in the theater so I guess I was 14. I was BEYOND stoked about it and loved it. It was my first Miyazaki movie.
posted by potrzebie at 5:17 PM on July 15, 2022
posted by potrzebie at 5:17 PM on July 15, 2022
I hated where I grew up as an older kid, which was about twenty minutes outside of DC in Northern Virginia. But I will always be grateful that I lived there for the US release of Mononoke Hime, and was close enough to a theater that was showing the subtitled film. I got to go with the boy I had an absolutely enormous crush on, he was one of my best friends, and our other best friend didn’t want to see it. (Ironically, she is now a successful animator.) Unfortunately, my dad had to take us to the cool theater in the artsy part of DC for the matinee showing - the only other time the subtitled version was showing was a midnight show. So there I was, in the lobby, nervous as hell to be almost on a date with my crush, and also super curious about that part of the city and the funky indie theater we were in, about fourteen years old, and my dad comes back with a carton of popcorn and loudly proclaims “SO IS THIS MOVIE ABOUT POKEYMANS???”
Anyway, after a briefly furious proclamation about not all anime being pokemon and also it’s pokemon not pokeymans how COULD you, ugh, Dad, you’re SO annoying, this is anime for grow ups not baby stuff, the show was set to start so we get in the theater and there’s like, five other people there, max. Dad obnoxiously decided to sit in the row behind us so “you and your… friend” could hang out. Like, in hindsight, my dad was awesome, defusing tension, giving me space, buying our tickets, but at the time… the mortification… Luckily! It took about five minutes for the movie to really ramp up and then we all forgot about everything else.
It takes a very special film to make a teenage girl forget she’s sitting next to a boy she’s like, totally in love with. But Mononoke absolutely did, for the full run time, with subtitles. Afterwards we all talked about all our favorite parts. My favorite was the part with the deer god stalking through the trees. The boy was really delighted by the little spirits and their super creepy movement. My dad’s favorite part, predictably, was the landscapes. No nervousness or awkwardness ensued. It was just great, and we all talked to each other like three people who had appreciated some wonderful art. Dad of course is a nerdy creative guy himself, he likes moody French films and was the one to rent all the Kurosawa films and watch them with me, so every bit of his pokeymans bit was bluster. I don’t think he made a single joke like that after the movie at all.
A few years ago I caught Mononoke in theaters during one of those short run Ghibli festival things. It holds up magnificently. The movement and handcrafted detail in every frame is astounding. Now that I know so much more about the actual techniques of animation I’m even more impressed. But very little will compare to the feeling of a piece of art making a dad and his cantankerous teenage kid treat each other like peers for an entire day.
My favorite ghibli film is Nausicaa, but I freely admit the animation and sound design in Mononoke is better. I wish its first US run hadn’t been quite so bungled, but if it had had the audiences it deserved, I wouldnt have had such a good day at such a tenuous time in my life.
posted by Mizu at 5:46 PM on July 15, 2022 [58 favorites]
Anyway, after a briefly furious proclamation about not all anime being pokemon and also it’s pokemon not pokeymans how COULD you, ugh, Dad, you’re SO annoying, this is anime for grow ups not baby stuff, the show was set to start so we get in the theater and there’s like, five other people there, max. Dad obnoxiously decided to sit in the row behind us so “you and your… friend” could hang out. Like, in hindsight, my dad was awesome, defusing tension, giving me space, buying our tickets, but at the time… the mortification… Luckily! It took about five minutes for the movie to really ramp up and then we all forgot about everything else.
It takes a very special film to make a teenage girl forget she’s sitting next to a boy she’s like, totally in love with. But Mononoke absolutely did, for the full run time, with subtitles. Afterwards we all talked about all our favorite parts. My favorite was the part with the deer god stalking through the trees. The boy was really delighted by the little spirits and their super creepy movement. My dad’s favorite part, predictably, was the landscapes. No nervousness or awkwardness ensued. It was just great, and we all talked to each other like three people who had appreciated some wonderful art. Dad of course is a nerdy creative guy himself, he likes moody French films and was the one to rent all the Kurosawa films and watch them with me, so every bit of his pokeymans bit was bluster. I don’t think he made a single joke like that after the movie at all.
A few years ago I caught Mononoke in theaters during one of those short run Ghibli festival things. It holds up magnificently. The movement and handcrafted detail in every frame is astounding. Now that I know so much more about the actual techniques of animation I’m even more impressed. But very little will compare to the feeling of a piece of art making a dad and his cantankerous teenage kid treat each other like peers for an entire day.
My favorite ghibli film is Nausicaa, but I freely admit the animation and sound design in Mononoke is better. I wish its first US run hadn’t been quite so bungled, but if it had had the audiences it deserved, I wouldnt have had such a good day at such a tenuous time in my life.
posted by Mizu at 5:46 PM on July 15, 2022 [58 favorites]
Even though this is one of the least kid-friendly Ghibli films, it was my son's favorite movie when he was three. His sister, who is three years older, liked it a lot too, but at first she had to leave the room during the scenes with the demon pigs. (My son actually seemed more scared of Totoro than of the demon pigs. Kids are weird.) My kids have seen this movie a zillion times, but a lot of those viewings were when they were too young to fully appreciate it. They're teenagers now. At some point in the last year our whole family watched Princess Mononoke again together for the first time in years and we all still liked it.
posted by Redstart at 5:50 PM on July 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Redstart at 5:50 PM on July 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
Last night someone was playing this loud outside my apartment while I was trying to sleep. (That iconic soundtrack is instantly recognizable at almost any point in the runtime but I think it was the Tatara women work song that caught my attention.) Anyway it was one of the time's I've been least irritated to be disturbed by noise while trying to sleep.
It's hard to pick a favorite Miyazaki film. (Sometimes I'm tempted to say something crazy like Porco Rosso. Feels like a left-field pick but also pretty defensible!) But the emotional punch on this one is very hard. Mononoke and Nausicaa are the ones that feel like they are, in a way, addressed to me. Won't go into but you probably get it.
posted by grobstein at 7:09 PM on July 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
It's hard to pick a favorite Miyazaki film. (Sometimes I'm tempted to say something crazy like Porco Rosso. Feels like a left-field pick but also pretty defensible!) But the emotional punch on this one is very hard. Mononoke and Nausicaa are the ones that feel like they are, in a way, addressed to me. Won't go into but you probably get it.
posted by grobstein at 7:09 PM on July 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
Mizu: and my dad comes back with a carton of popcorn and loudly proclaims “SO IS THIS MOVIE ABOUT POKEYMANS???”
I'm a few years away from being the dad of a teenager, but let me just say, your father is an inspiration to us all.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 7:30 PM on July 15, 2022 [28 favorites]
I'm a few years away from being the dad of a teenager, but let me just say, your father is an inspiration to us all.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 7:30 PM on July 15, 2022 [28 favorites]
If you’re watching porco rosso, make sure to watch with the French language soundtrack, which Miyazaki preferred for that film (featuring Jean Russo)!
One of my great highlights of living in Japan briefly was visiting the Ghibli Museum - do make a point of going!
posted by WedgedPiano at 7:42 PM on July 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
One of my great highlights of living in Japan briefly was visiting the Ghibli Museum - do make a point of going!
posted by WedgedPiano at 7:42 PM on July 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
Via a similar discussion on Reddit:
posted by fairmettle at 7:46 PM on July 15, 2022 [21 favorites]
The producer [arrived] “with a perfect replica of a Japanese samurai sword. He then, in front of a "horrified" conference room of Miramax employees, "shouted in English and in a loud voice, 'Mononoke Hime, NO CUT!'"I think this is a new development in the legend. The story I've always heard before is that the sword was shipped to Miramax/Weinstein and had "no cuts" etched onto the blade, not that it was presented in person with screaming.in 10 years, the story is going to evolve into a 10 minute duel outside of Miramax HQ
posted by fairmettle at 7:46 PM on July 15, 2022 [21 favorites]
I was in the 'japanimation' club that pitched it for the university theater. I bought dvds and would give them as presents at birthdays.
I love this movie, but yes, it's rather violent and my kid wouldn't watch it after the boar demon opening scene. But what an opening!
posted by eustatic at 7:50 PM on July 15, 2022
I love this movie, but yes, it's rather violent and my kid wouldn't watch it after the boar demon opening scene. But what an opening!
posted by eustatic at 7:50 PM on July 15, 2022
I needed a reminder about this beautiful movie. Thank you for posting this.
posted by eirias at 8:00 PM on July 15, 2022
posted by eirias at 8:00 PM on July 15, 2022
This is genuinely one of my favorite movies (probably top 10 in a lot of ways).
Same. I'm mostly indifferent to animation as a genre, but this film is in a category of its own. Absolutely sublime.
Afterwards we all talked about all our favorite parts. My favorite was the part with the deer god stalking through the trees.
Same. I get chills just thinking about it.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 8:05 PM on July 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
Same. I'm mostly indifferent to animation as a genre, but this film is in a category of its own. Absolutely sublime.
Afterwards we all talked about all our favorite parts. My favorite was the part with the deer god stalking through the trees.
Same. I get chills just thinking about it.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 8:05 PM on July 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
I saw it in the theater in English and I really liked it, and now I've watched in Japanese. It's one of my favorite Ghibli movies. I've introduced Totoro to my grandkids and will continue with others as they get older.
posted by doctor_negative at 11:24 PM on July 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by doctor_negative at 11:24 PM on July 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
It seems insane to me that anyone would bring a toddler to that movie. Even without knowing anything about it, it was rated PG-13, right there on the posters. My sister had a huge fight with my mom about it because she was 11 and wasn't allowed to see it, and even I had to lobby pretty hard for it despite being 13. The reviews in the newspaper all mentioned the violence, so it seems just totally incomprehensible that someone would walk into that with a young child and expect a Pokemon version of the Lion King or something.
posted by wakannai at 3:01 AM on July 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by wakannai at 3:01 AM on July 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
Harvey Weinstein can rot in prison, but Mononoke does drag in places (at least to my ADD American eyes), but Miyazaki deserves respect when he says how his films should be adapted. I'm not sure how much Miyazaki even cares if Americans see his films.
posted by Bee'sWing at 4:32 AM on July 16, 2022
posted by Bee'sWing at 4:32 AM on July 16, 2022
I watched it last night for the first time. Beautiful film, wonderfully unsettling designs and animation.
The ending made me think of Copenhagen Accord optimism.
For the New Yorkers, I see this timely note on the film's Wikipedia page: "For its 25th anniversary, Princess Mononoke will be screened in 35mm at New York City's Japan Society on July 22, 2022."
posted by clawsoon at 4:39 AM on July 16, 2022 [5 favorites]
The ending made me think of Copenhagen Accord optimism.
For the New Yorkers, I see this timely note on the film's Wikipedia page: "For its 25th anniversary, Princess Mononoke will be screened in 35mm at New York City's Japan Society on July 22, 2022."
posted by clawsoon at 4:39 AM on July 16, 2022 [5 favorites]
The first phrase from the movie that struck me was "samurai thugs". Most of the little I've heard about the samurai has been from white guys who are really into them. I'd be interested to know what kind of conversation in Japan itself that phrase (and the movie as a whole) was part of.
posted by clawsoon at 6:16 AM on July 16, 2022
posted by clawsoon at 6:16 AM on July 16, 2022
I had no idea an English release would need a scriptwriter instead of just a good translator. How much does the content in English differ from the Japanese version?
I understand that Gaiman understood the assignment and mostly tried to keep his additions to explaining things that the Japanese audience would have already known. It's quite common for there to be a separate scriptwriter as well as a translator; they're two different skillsets, and a faithful translation is pretty likely to sound bad to English ears.
posted by Merus at 6:34 AM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
I understand that Gaiman understood the assignment and mostly tried to keep his additions to explaining things that the Japanese audience would have already known. It's quite common for there to be a separate scriptwriter as well as a translator; they're two different skillsets, and a faithful translation is pretty likely to sound bad to English ears.
posted by Merus at 6:34 AM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
An interview with Miyazaki talking about some of the themes of the film.
posted by clawsoon at 8:45 AM on July 16, 2022
posted by clawsoon at 8:45 AM on July 16, 2022
even though at the time I thought Ghibli films tended to be slow (I fell asleep during Kiki's Delivery Service, more than once)
My date fell asleep during Mononoke. Glad I saw the film, but even I (a Miyazaki fan) found it a downer and a long sit. Spirited Away so much better, a return to form (but maybe I should give the Princess another try; it's probable that I didn't 'get' it the first time.)
The best two Ghibli films are Only Yesterday and Grave of the Fireflies
Grave of the Fireflies is the best damn movie that I will never, ever watch again.
Agreed but Only Yesterday is very good. You probably need to be middle-aged (or older) to appreciate it, however.
posted by Rash at 9:17 AM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
My date fell asleep during Mononoke. Glad I saw the film, but even I (a Miyazaki fan) found it a downer and a long sit. Spirited Away so much better, a return to form (but maybe I should give the Princess another try; it's probable that I didn't 'get' it the first time.)
The best two Ghibli films are Only Yesterday and Grave of the Fireflies
Grave of the Fireflies is the best damn movie that I will never, ever watch again.
Agreed but Only Yesterday is very good. You probably need to be middle-aged (or older) to appreciate it, however.
posted by Rash at 9:17 AM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
Maybe they couldn't cut anything, but I guess it didn't occur to Miyazaki and his lawyers to specify that they couldn't add anything.
In Kiki's Delivery Service, Jiji the cat speaks to Kiki telepathically with no lip movements to match. So, gosh, he could have been talking to her pretty much anytime. And boy did Disney go to town! The cat is endlessly talking, talking, talking, almost none of which was in the original. Explaining stuff that we already understand perfectly well, making stupid wisecracks, anything to get more of Phil Hartman's voice into every possible second of the film.
Not like you needed another reason, but watch it with the original Japanese track and subtitles. (Thank you, John Lasseter. Whatever his sins, and I gather they were many, he's almost single-handedly responsible for Miyazaki's films being readily available in the US with the original Japanese dialog tracks.)
posted by Naberius at 10:17 AM on July 16, 2022 [8 favorites]
In Kiki's Delivery Service, Jiji the cat speaks to Kiki telepathically with no lip movements to match. So, gosh, he could have been talking to her pretty much anytime. And boy did Disney go to town! The cat is endlessly talking, talking, talking, almost none of which was in the original. Explaining stuff that we already understand perfectly well, making stupid wisecracks, anything to get more of Phil Hartman's voice into every possible second of the film.
Not like you needed another reason, but watch it with the original Japanese track and subtitles. (Thank you, John Lasseter. Whatever his sins, and I gather they were many, he's almost single-handedly responsible for Miyazaki's films being readily available in the US with the original Japanese dialog tracks.)
posted by Naberius at 10:17 AM on July 16, 2022 [8 favorites]
I understand that Gaiman understood the assignment and mostly tried to keep his additions to explaining things that the Japanese audience would have already known.
The specific note that I always remember is that he added a line where the monk, I think, is talking about the god, and describes it as looking like a deer with a human face. Apparently without a little bit of warning to get people in the right mindset, American audiences in test showings were being caught off guard by its appearance and laughing.
posted by Four Ds at 10:42 AM on July 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
The specific note that I always remember is that he added a line where the monk, I think, is talking about the god, and describes it as looking like a deer with a human face. Apparently without a little bit of warning to get people in the right mindset, American audiences in test showings were being caught off guard by its appearance and laughing.
posted by Four Ds at 10:42 AM on July 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
That’s a hell of a story, and pretty much what one expects out of the entertainment industry. That it emerged at all out of the hands of Weinstein and Disney is astounding.
I saw it when it hit dvd in the states with my son, who was about 6 then. He could have taken or left it (was not the Pokémon he had expected) but I was surprised by it and affected deeply by the story - so much so I never could bear to take the dvd back (sorry Hastings!) and still watch it now and then. Might be time to give it a whirl again.
I have seen most of the others and find they evoke my childhood and link that to the present in a way I understand mostly on a visceral level. There is a genuine sense of wonder in the stories that I find thought provoking and inspiring. I am reminded that things are not always what they seem, and often in a good way. And sometimes you follow a path into the trees and get far more than you could possibly imagine.
I found some Kodama figures on eBay; little ivory colored plastic things I’ve scattered randomly around my office where one least expects them. They make me think outside whatever box I’m stuck in just when I need to.
posted by cybrcamper at 1:43 PM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
I saw it when it hit dvd in the states with my son, who was about 6 then. He could have taken or left it (was not the Pokémon he had expected) but I was surprised by it and affected deeply by the story - so much so I never could bear to take the dvd back (sorry Hastings!) and still watch it now and then. Might be time to give it a whirl again.
I have seen most of the others and find they evoke my childhood and link that to the present in a way I understand mostly on a visceral level. There is a genuine sense of wonder in the stories that I find thought provoking and inspiring. I am reminded that things are not always what they seem, and often in a good way. And sometimes you follow a path into the trees and get far more than you could possibly imagine.
I found some Kodama figures on eBay; little ivory colored plastic things I’ve scattered randomly around my office where one least expects them. They make me think outside whatever box I’m stuck in just when I need to.
posted by cybrcamper at 1:43 PM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
Thank you, John Lasseter. Whatever his sins, and I gather they were many, he's almost single-handedly responsible for Miyazaki's films being readily available in the US with the original Japanese dialog tracks.)
Hah! But D also committed a terrible sin in the form of only providing English 'dub subs' for all their Ghibli releases. This is fine for SDH (Subtitles for the Deaf and Hard of hearing) viewers in as much as the subs perfectly match the English audio dub of the film but don't necessarily provide a more nuanced translation of the Japanese audio. For these you need to get the more recently re-released G-Kids discs which I believe added back what had been the original English subs from the pre-D US DVDs. These are generally much more satisfying in my opinion.
(For a good example of how this really matters, check out 'Tekkonkinkreet' and select English audio and English subs and compare. I am sure there are plenty of other examples. It's not that English language dubs are necessarily bad but they often have to trade off nuanced translation against timing for reasonable mouth movement sync.)
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 3:05 PM on July 16, 2022
Hah! But D also committed a terrible sin in the form of only providing English 'dub subs' for all their Ghibli releases. This is fine for SDH (Subtitles for the Deaf and Hard of hearing) viewers in as much as the subs perfectly match the English audio dub of the film but don't necessarily provide a more nuanced translation of the Japanese audio. For these you need to get the more recently re-released G-Kids discs which I believe added back what had been the original English subs from the pre-D US DVDs. These are generally much more satisfying in my opinion.
(For a good example of how this really matters, check out 'Tekkonkinkreet' and select English audio and English subs and compare. I am sure there are plenty of other examples. It's not that English language dubs are necessarily bad but they often have to trade off nuanced translation against timing for reasonable mouth movement sync.)
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 3:05 PM on July 16, 2022
The idea that American children could grow up without the joy of Totoro peeking around the hedge at them makes me sad.
posted by SPrintF at 5:11 PM on July 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by SPrintF at 5:11 PM on July 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
I had no idea an English release would need a scriptwriter instead of just a good translator. How much does the content in English differ from the Japanese version?
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl
Ok so there's 3 jobs.
1. Japanese - English translation - Steve Alpert's translation
2. Script Writing - Neil Gaiman turns the translation into natural dialogue, and edits for cultural context.
3. ADR matchup - the director (Jack Fletcher) gives instructions to the voice actors how to deliver their lines and ensures their voices match the lip sync - which is astoundingly good. You could watch either the Japanese or English dub and the voices match the lip motion so well.
---- Neil Gaiman talks about what he did as a scriptwriter in this interview
Emru Townsend: How exactly did you approach working on rewriting it? I've always wondered how someone rewrites a script from another language.
Neil Gaiman: A lot of it was just taking it and trying to get it to flow as dialogue. You know that you've got a real cast coming up. Most anime dialogue that I've seen--most translated, and I'm not even talking a Japanese thing, I'm talking French and German cartoons as well--doesn't sound like dialogue that people would ever say. And what I wanted to do was try and (a) sneak information in, while (b) giving natural-sounding dialogue, that (c) kept as much as possible, of either what the Japanese said or what they meant. Occasionally, you'd wind up completely changing something in order to make it work. An example would be the women, when Lady Eboshi gets all the women round the fire, and she's giving them their instructions, and she's saying, "Okay, look, I'm going to be leading with the men, you ladies have to stay and guard Irontown." And Gonza says something like, "Don't you worry about Lady Eboshi, she'll be safe with me," and Toki looks at him and she just says "Useless, useless!" And everybody laughs, they kill themselves laughing. Only that's not funny, if you translate it.
posted by xdvesper at 2:50 AM on July 17, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl
Ok so there's 3 jobs.
1. Japanese - English translation - Steve Alpert's translation
2. Script Writing - Neil Gaiman turns the translation into natural dialogue, and edits for cultural context.
3. ADR matchup - the director (Jack Fletcher) gives instructions to the voice actors how to deliver their lines and ensures their voices match the lip sync - which is astoundingly good. You could watch either the Japanese or English dub and the voices match the lip motion so well.
---- Neil Gaiman talks about what he did as a scriptwriter in this interview
Emru Townsend: How exactly did you approach working on rewriting it? I've always wondered how someone rewrites a script from another language.
Neil Gaiman: A lot of it was just taking it and trying to get it to flow as dialogue. You know that you've got a real cast coming up. Most anime dialogue that I've seen--most translated, and I'm not even talking a Japanese thing, I'm talking French and German cartoons as well--doesn't sound like dialogue that people would ever say. And what I wanted to do was try and (a) sneak information in, while (b) giving natural-sounding dialogue, that (c) kept as much as possible, of either what the Japanese said or what they meant. Occasionally, you'd wind up completely changing something in order to make it work. An example would be the women, when Lady Eboshi gets all the women round the fire, and she's giving them their instructions, and she's saying, "Okay, look, I'm going to be leading with the men, you ladies have to stay and guard Irontown." And Gonza says something like, "Don't you worry about Lady Eboshi, she'll be safe with me," and Toki looks at him and she just says "Useless, useless!" And everybody laughs, they kill themselves laughing. Only that's not funny, if you translate it.
posted by xdvesper at 2:50 AM on July 17, 2022 [4 favorites]
saw Mononoke for the first time in a theatrical rerelease (I'm not counting the time when I was 20 & shithammered at a party & someone put it on & I was like "THAT PIG SICK" & immediately passed out), and wow, incredible film, mesmerizing on the big screen (sober)
my favorite Ghibli is either Spirited Away or Howl's Moving Castle but I'd argue for Princess Mononoke being the best Ghibli
posted by taquito sunrise at 4:33 AM on July 17, 2022
my favorite Ghibli is either Spirited Away or Howl's Moving Castle but I'd argue for Princess Mononoke being the best Ghibli
posted by taquito sunrise at 4:33 AM on July 17, 2022
My favourite Miyazaki movie is Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind but his best Studio Ghibli movies are for me Sprited Away and Princes Mononoke.
posted by Pendragon at 12:12 PM on July 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Pendragon at 12:12 PM on July 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
My kids watched Princess Mononoke on a portable DVD player in the back of the car while on a long drive, so my first time watching it was really just listening to it.
Still, I could get the idea of what the article calls 'moral ambiguity'. Instead of American style black-and-white morality tales, with the Princess being and beasts being 'good' and the industrialists being 'bad' it recognizes the complexity of the world, where there are no simple good guys and bad guys and there are no simple answers.
posted by eye of newt at 2:26 PM on July 17, 2022 [2 favorites]
Still, I could get the idea of what the article calls 'moral ambiguity'. Instead of American style black-and-white morality tales, with the Princess being and beasts being 'good' and the industrialists being 'bad' it recognizes the complexity of the world, where there are no simple good guys and bad guys and there are no simple answers.
posted by eye of newt at 2:26 PM on July 17, 2022 [2 favorites]
Hah! But D also committed a terrible sin in the form of only providing English 'dub subs' for all their Ghibli releases
Yes! My Japanese is practically non-existent, but there are a few places in a few films where I can tell the words I'm reading don't match what was just said; and there are also a few where a subtitle appears when nobody has spoken at all.
Also, my favourite (or at least one of them) is Pom Poko, and the less said about the "raccoon pouches" that litter the subtitles, the better.
That said, I probably do get more out of any translated film if some of the assumed background knowledge is filled in for me. It'd be nice to get to choose between two different subtitle tracks, one literal and the other matching the dub.
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 7:14 AM on July 18, 2022
Yes! My Japanese is practically non-existent, but there are a few places in a few films where I can tell the words I'm reading don't match what was just said; and there are also a few where a subtitle appears when nobody has spoken at all.
Also, my favourite (or at least one of them) is Pom Poko, and the less said about the "raccoon pouches" that litter the subtitles, the better.
That said, I probably do get more out of any translated film if some of the assumed background knowledge is filled in for me. It'd be nice to get to choose between two different subtitle tracks, one literal and the other matching the dub.
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 7:14 AM on July 18, 2022
It'd be nice to get to choose between two different subtitle tracks, one literal and the other matching the dub.
Agreed. I have run into this a few times, and it's always appreciated. (Typically, the one matching the dub is more expansive--for example describing sound effects/music--and will have a name explicitly stating that it is for the hard of hearing.)
posted by Four Ds at 9:35 AM on July 18, 2022
Agreed. I have run into this a few times, and it's always appreciated. (Typically, the one matching the dub is more expansive--for example describing sound effects/music--and will have a name explicitly stating that it is for the hard of hearing.)
posted by Four Ds at 9:35 AM on July 18, 2022
I attended Princess Mononoke’s first showing on opening night. The theater was full of families and small children, the aisles crowded with strollers.
When the opening action died down, you could hear the whole theater consumed by wailing toddlers and the apologies of parents as they gathered up and headed for the exits.
Fun Fact: The original release of My Neighbor Totoro in Japan was a double feature with Grave of the Fireflies.
posted by The Tensor at 10:41 AM on July 18, 2022 [5 favorites]
When the opening action died down, you could hear the whole theater consumed by wailing toddlers and the apologies of parents as they gathered up and headed for the exits.
Fun Fact: The original release of My Neighbor Totoro in Japan was a double feature with Grave of the Fireflies.
posted by The Tensor at 10:41 AM on July 18, 2022 [5 favorites]
« Older The only good kind of news about teslas in space. | Terminal ballistics of Atlatl darts Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:33 PM on July 15, 2022 [1 favorite]