Would we allow police to search the sacred precincts of marital bedrooms
July 22, 2022 7:41 AM Subscribe
Yesterday’s passage of H.R. 8373-The Right to Contraception Act, in the U.S.A.’s House of Representatives brought back into focus the looming threat to Griswold v. Connecticut.
While many in the United States view the journey to contraceptive access as a uniquely 20th Century event, Americans have been seeking methods of contraception since the 1800s.
Access to contraception also impacts the U.S. economy and the high school drop out rate.
It remains unclear whether the bill will pass in the senate.
While many in the United States view the journey to contraceptive access as a uniquely 20th Century event, Americans have been seeking methods of contraception since the 1800s.
Access to contraception also impacts the U.S. economy and the high school drop out rate.
It remains unclear whether the bill will pass in the senate.
I have to think more than a few republicans are damned glad contraception is widely available.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:22 AM on July 22, 2022 [19 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 8:22 AM on July 22, 2022 [19 favorites]
Some very, very interesting things are happening in the House and Senate now in the wake of SCOTUS. The House also passed H.R.8404, the Respect for Marriage Act - a bill to protect marriage equality. That bill also now needs to get through the Senate.
CNN recently stopped Senator Marco Rubio as he was getting on an elevator in the Senate building to ask him for a comment about the vote on the Respect for Marriage Act, and he scoffed that it was "a ridiculous waste of time". But - little did he know that Wisconsin Senator Tammy Baldwin, who is herself gay, was already on the elevator and overheard him; she later reached out to CNN to tell them that "You probably would have loved to be on the elevator to see [our] exchange after."
I know that right now things are all talk, and I'm withholding judgement on both bills until I see them pass the Senate. But I am taking moments like that as the glimmer of a sign that the Dems in the Senate might possibly be reaching a point where they're getting fed up enough to act.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:34 AM on July 22, 2022 [30 favorites]
CNN recently stopped Senator Marco Rubio as he was getting on an elevator in the Senate building to ask him for a comment about the vote on the Respect for Marriage Act, and he scoffed that it was "a ridiculous waste of time". But - little did he know that Wisconsin Senator Tammy Baldwin, who is herself gay, was already on the elevator and overheard him; she later reached out to CNN to tell them that "You probably would have loved to be on the elevator to see [our] exchange after."
I know that right now things are all talk, and I'm withholding judgement on both bills until I see them pass the Senate. But I am taking moments like that as the glimmer of a sign that the Dems in the Senate might possibly be reaching a point where they're getting fed up enough to act.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:34 AM on July 22, 2022 [30 favorites]
Definitely agree with EmpressCallipygos, it will be very interesting to see if some of these bills gain enough traction with a big enough fraction of Republicans to actually pass into law. If anything, contraception has much more support across all facets of America than same-sex marriage, even though the forced birth contingent are trying to tie it to abortion. It might be a bit tricky to find the right advertising message on contraception but the idea that Republicans would take away the Pill and IUDs and even condoms has got to strike most people as completely nuts and undesirable. Not that common sense has often stopped the Republicans in the past!
posted by dellsolace at 8:48 AM on July 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by dellsolace at 8:48 AM on July 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
the Pill and IUDs
You would be surprised (or maybe not) how many right-wingers consider these 'abortive' contraceptives and are a no-go.
posted by AzraelBrown at 9:18 AM on July 22, 2022 [15 favorites]
You would be surprised (or maybe not) how many right-wingers consider these 'abortive' contraceptives and are a no-go.
posted by AzraelBrown at 9:18 AM on July 22, 2022 [15 favorites]
I wouldn't be surprised if they classified a woman saying "no" as an abortion.
posted by stevis23 at 9:41 AM on July 22, 2022 [86 favorites]
posted by stevis23 at 9:41 AM on July 22, 2022 [86 favorites]
Dems in the Senate might possibly be reaching a point where they're getting fed up enough to act.
Yeah, they'll send a few fundraising emails and have a drum circle right after both of these bills fail.
posted by TrialByMedia at 10:09 AM on July 22, 2022 [21 favorites]
Yeah, they'll send a few fundraising emails and have a drum circle right after both of these bills fail.
posted by TrialByMedia at 10:09 AM on July 22, 2022 [21 favorites]
I’m hoping this is the start of fracture for the GOP, or at least an edge on them. I’m not all full of hope but I do have some.
posted by glaucon at 10:11 AM on July 22, 2022
posted by glaucon at 10:11 AM on July 22, 2022
How the fuck is this still even a debate
posted by gottabefunky at 10:15 AM on July 22, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by gottabefunky at 10:15 AM on July 22, 2022 [11 favorites]
CNN recently stopped Senator Marco Rubio as he was getting on an elevator in the Senate building to ask him for a comment about the vote on the Respect for Marriage Act, and he scoffed that it was "a ridiculous waste of time".
This is the B of the A/B testing they're doing right now. The A is "State's rights".
posted by Etrigan at 10:16 AM on July 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
This is the B of the A/B testing they're doing right now. The A is "State's rights".
posted by Etrigan at 10:16 AM on July 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
Next up, the anti-antibiotic movement to defend microbes
posted by gottabefunky at 10:17 AM on July 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by gottabefunky at 10:17 AM on July 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
Yeah, they'll send a few fundraising emails and have a drum circle right after both of these bills fail.
As opposed to what? The filibuster isn't supposed to be a de facto 60-vote requirement, but the Republicans have convinced the so-called "liberal media" that it is, so unanimous Democratic support isn't enough to pass the bill, and Manchin and Sinema won't vote for even a filibuster carve-out.
The question is, does preserving the right to abortion and contraception motivate voters enough to cause Republicans to lose seats is what was supposed to be a wave election? Republicans have been motivating their voters over abortion for decades, but now that an obviously partisan SCOTUS decision has taken away a fundamental right, people who enjoyed those rights should be motivated, too. (And the Democrats should -- may not, but should -- hang all this extremism around the Republicans' necks.)
posted by Gelatin at 10:19 AM on July 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
As opposed to what? The filibuster isn't supposed to be a de facto 60-vote requirement, but the Republicans have convinced the so-called "liberal media" that it is, so unanimous Democratic support isn't enough to pass the bill, and Manchin and Sinema won't vote for even a filibuster carve-out.
The question is, does preserving the right to abortion and contraception motivate voters enough to cause Republicans to lose seats is what was supposed to be a wave election? Republicans have been motivating their voters over abortion for decades, but now that an obviously partisan SCOTUS decision has taken away a fundamental right, people who enjoyed those rights should be motivated, too. (And the Democrats should -- may not, but should -- hang all this extremism around the Republicans' necks.)
posted by Gelatin at 10:19 AM on July 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
Yeah, they'll send a few fundraising emails and have a drum circle right after both of these bills fail.
Okay, can you just not, please.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:22 AM on July 22, 2022 [28 favorites]
Okay, can you just not, please.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:22 AM on July 22, 2022 [28 favorites]
Let's be clear -- if this bill fails in the Senate, it'll be because of the Republicans, not the Democrats, and the thing to do is make the Republicans pay the price in the November elections.
posted by Gelatin at 10:26 AM on July 22, 2022 [23 favorites]
posted by Gelatin at 10:26 AM on July 22, 2022 [23 favorites]
as an observer, I get the cynicism.. I get the fatigue with the cynicism too.. but in this moment in history, I absolutely don't get how you can distill things to "maybe the Dems are ready to play rough" like that's hopeful.
that needs to happen, but so much more needs to happen.
posted by elkevelvet at 10:40 AM on July 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
that needs to happen, but so much more needs to happen.
posted by elkevelvet at 10:40 AM on July 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
Let's be clear -- if this bill fails in the Senate, it'll be because of the Republicans, not the Democrats
Please stop this. If this bill fails the Senate, it's because there weren't enough votes to take the necessary action to get it passed. If there's a Democrat who could have been one of those votes but decided that they'd rather not, then they absolutely share the blame.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 10:51 AM on July 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
Please stop this. If this bill fails the Senate, it's because there weren't enough votes to take the necessary action to get it passed. If there's a Democrat who could have been one of those votes but decided that they'd rather not, then they absolutely share the blame.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 10:51 AM on July 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
Please stop this. If this bill fails the Senate, it's because there weren't enough votes to take the necessary action to get it passed. If there's a Democrat who could have been one of those votes but decided that they'd rather not, then they absolutely share the blame.
If the bill fails by less than 50 votes, and some Democrats vote against it, then sure. Though it looks like the party-line-crossing is going to go the other way, as the Republicans know their extremist position on womens' health isn't popular.
Yet one suspects your wording about "there weren't enough votes to take the necessary action to get it passed" refers not to the up-or-down vote but to not exempting this bill from the filibuster. But in that case, I already stipulated that Manchin and Sinema are no-gos on that vote, so of course they'll share the blame.
The fact remains that almost all the Democratic caucus stands in favor of reproductive rights and almost all the Republican caucus stands against it. The fact remains that if the bill fails, it'll be because Republicans voted against it, and they should be made to pay for that extreme position at the ballot box.
posted by Gelatin at 11:09 AM on July 22, 2022 [8 favorites]
If the bill fails by less than 50 votes, and some Democrats vote against it, then sure. Though it looks like the party-line-crossing is going to go the other way, as the Republicans know their extremist position on womens' health isn't popular.
Yet one suspects your wording about "there weren't enough votes to take the necessary action to get it passed" refers not to the up-or-down vote but to not exempting this bill from the filibuster. But in that case, I already stipulated that Manchin and Sinema are no-gos on that vote, so of course they'll share the blame.
The fact remains that almost all the Democratic caucus stands in favor of reproductive rights and almost all the Republican caucus stands against it. The fact remains that if the bill fails, it'll be because Republicans voted against it, and they should be made to pay for that extreme position at the ballot box.
posted by Gelatin at 11:09 AM on July 22, 2022 [8 favorites]
Back to the question of the bill itself. Does anyone know how the R's are justifying their overwhelming opposition to this bill? I think all but 8 voted no...did any of them speak up as to why? I'm guessing maybe it is all about the idea that some contraceptives could theoretically prevent implantation of a zygote, but as my conservative doctor pointed out to me, all the studies show that far fewer zygotes are lost when taking the contraceptive than are lost in normal unmedicated cycles.
My other guess is "we can't vote with the Dems or else we'll get primaried by someone crazier." Is there any actual debate where they justify their opposition?
posted by TreeRooster at 11:12 AM on July 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
My other guess is "we can't vote with the Dems or else we'll get primaried by someone crazier." Is there any actual debate where they justify their opposition?
posted by TreeRooster at 11:12 AM on July 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Okay, can you just not, please.
Why are folks being asked to not express understandable dissatisfaction with the Democrats' repeated failure to rise to the occasion? Their inability or unwillingness to hinder the rise of christofascism is relevant to the discussion, in my opinion. And I agree, I don't think Democrats will do much besides send out fundraising emails and perhaps suggest people try voting with more intensity. I welcome being proven wrong on this.
if this bill fails in the Senate, it'll be because of the Republicans, not the Democrats
While I don't disagree with the sentiment, Manchin and Sinema are both nominal Democrats, and I presume both will be voting against this bill. Again, I welcome being proven wrong on this.
the thing to do is make the Republicans pay the price in the November elections
With respect, this rings a bit maddenesque. Are Democrats capable of doing so? Are they making efforts to do so? The way things appear, from my perspective, suggests that the Republicans will not be paying the price come November. As ever, I welcome being proven wrong.
I have no suggestions or better ideas for what the Democratic leadership should be doing. I'm just watching this all unfold and wondering, is this really happening? Is anything going to prevent this from reaching its natural conclusion?
posted by rustybullrake at 11:13 AM on July 22, 2022 [23 favorites]
Why are folks being asked to not express understandable dissatisfaction with the Democrats' repeated failure to rise to the occasion? Their inability or unwillingness to hinder the rise of christofascism is relevant to the discussion, in my opinion. And I agree, I don't think Democrats will do much besides send out fundraising emails and perhaps suggest people try voting with more intensity. I welcome being proven wrong on this.
if this bill fails in the Senate, it'll be because of the Republicans, not the Democrats
While I don't disagree with the sentiment, Manchin and Sinema are both nominal Democrats, and I presume both will be voting against this bill. Again, I welcome being proven wrong on this.
the thing to do is make the Republicans pay the price in the November elections
With respect, this rings a bit maddenesque. Are Democrats capable of doing so? Are they making efforts to do so? The way things appear, from my perspective, suggests that the Republicans will not be paying the price come November. As ever, I welcome being proven wrong.
I have no suggestions or better ideas for what the Democratic leadership should be doing. I'm just watching this all unfold and wondering, is this really happening? Is anything going to prevent this from reaching its natural conclusion?
posted by rustybullrake at 11:13 AM on July 22, 2022 [23 favorites]
in this moment in history, I absolutely don't get how you can distill things to "maybe the Dems are ready to play rough" like that's hopeful. that needs to happen, but so much more needs to happen.
That's fair. Lemme get into my thinking as to why I took that incident with Rubio and Baldwin as a hopeful sign.
For years now we've been watching the Democrats bite their tongues and follow the "when they go low, we go high" playbook, while the Republicans run roughshod over them. The Democrat playbook has largely been some combination of bipartisanship, trusting the GOP can negotiate, and turning the other cheek; any boorish behavior on a Republican's part gets some kind of mealy-mouthed "I'm shocked, SHOCKED I tell you" statement, but that's it; and the Republicans have gotten used to acting like the spoiled rich kids in an 80s teen comedy who say and do terrible stuff and get away with it. What's the worst that will happen to them if they say something nasty about AOC in the hallway? She'll say something on Twitter or say something in a speech, big deal. She won't even mention who it was who did it. And big deal, the Dems all do this social-justice-warrior stuff about how these poor people will get affected by cancelling gay marriage, but who gives a shit, they probably don't even care either and are just looking for votes themselves like we are. Big deal.
And then this incident with Baldwin and Rubio happened. Rubio said something snotty about the vote to defend marriage equality - and instead of making some kind of SJW statement later about other people, or just rolling her eyes, Baldwin got in his face about it, in person, about how it affected her personally.
I definitely agree that a lot more needs to happen - but this is at least a sign, to me, that at least some Democrats are snapping out of the "be bipartisan at all costs" mode and moving into "call them on their bullshit to their faces" mode, thank God.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:13 AM on July 22, 2022 [14 favorites]
That's fair. Lemme get into my thinking as to why I took that incident with Rubio and Baldwin as a hopeful sign.
For years now we've been watching the Democrats bite their tongues and follow the "when they go low, we go high" playbook, while the Republicans run roughshod over them. The Democrat playbook has largely been some combination of bipartisanship, trusting the GOP can negotiate, and turning the other cheek; any boorish behavior on a Republican's part gets some kind of mealy-mouthed "I'm shocked, SHOCKED I tell you" statement, but that's it; and the Republicans have gotten used to acting like the spoiled rich kids in an 80s teen comedy who say and do terrible stuff and get away with it. What's the worst that will happen to them if they say something nasty about AOC in the hallway? She'll say something on Twitter or say something in a speech, big deal. She won't even mention who it was who did it. And big deal, the Dems all do this social-justice-warrior stuff about how these poor people will get affected by cancelling gay marriage, but who gives a shit, they probably don't even care either and are just looking for votes themselves like we are. Big deal.
And then this incident with Baldwin and Rubio happened. Rubio said something snotty about the vote to defend marriage equality - and instead of making some kind of SJW statement later about other people, or just rolling her eyes, Baldwin got in his face about it, in person, about how it affected her personally.
I definitely agree that a lot more needs to happen - but this is at least a sign, to me, that at least some Democrats are snapping out of the "be bipartisan at all costs" mode and moving into "call them on their bullshit to their faces" mode, thank God.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:13 AM on July 22, 2022 [14 favorites]
Why are folks being asked to not express understandable dissatisfaction with the Democrats' repeated failure to rise to the occasion? Their inability or unwillingness to hinder the rise of christofascism is relevant to the discussion, in my opinion.
"Expressing understandable dissatisfaction" with what they've been doing thus far sounds defeatist as a response to a story about a Democrat who is finally starting to do something different.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:15 AM on July 22, 2022 [8 favorites]
"Expressing understandable dissatisfaction" with what they've been doing thus far sounds defeatist as a response to a story about a Democrat who is finally starting to do something different.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:15 AM on July 22, 2022 [8 favorites]
In what seems like a generation ago, we (rightly) criticized the accelerationists who saw Trump's election as a step towards making life miserable for enough people that they'd vote in golden age of democratic socialism
Now it turns out accelerationism has been the Democrat party's plan all along. Instead of proactively taking steps to stop Republicans in their not-so-secret attempt to pack the courts and overturn Roe, they've just been hoping that eventually enough people will eventually be affected enough to make Republicans pay in November. And then they can maybe get around to fixing everything, or not if the polls don't support spending the necessary political capital.
This legislation is better than doing nothing and I share the hope that it represents a new approach.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 11:28 AM on July 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Now it turns out accelerationism has been the Democrat party's plan all along. Instead of proactively taking steps to stop Republicans in their not-so-secret attempt to pack the courts and overturn Roe, they've just been hoping that eventually enough people will eventually be affected enough to make Republicans pay in November. And then they can maybe get around to fixing everything, or not if the polls don't support spending the necessary political capital.
This legislation is better than doing nothing and I share the hope that it represents a new approach.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 11:28 AM on July 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Fair enough, EC. I am hopeful you're right, but I don't expect to see a partywide shift merely because Baldwin had an opportunity to tell Rubio off in private.
posted by rustybullrake at 11:31 AM on July 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by rustybullrake at 11:31 AM on July 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
I wouldn't be surprised if they classified a woman saying "no" as an abortion
in much the same way as so many classify a trans woman saying "yes" as straight-up fraud.
There are not two mere-matter-of-opinion sides to these issues. Conservatism is a sucking moral vacuum that removes the ability for human beings to see each other as such. Anybody who self-identifies as conservative is best presumed morally repugnant until clearly proven otherwise.
posted by flabdablet at 11:43 AM on July 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
in much the same way as so many classify a trans woman saying "yes" as straight-up fraud.
There are not two mere-matter-of-opinion sides to these issues. Conservatism is a sucking moral vacuum that removes the ability for human beings to see each other as such. Anybody who self-identifies as conservative is best presumed morally repugnant until clearly proven otherwise.
posted by flabdablet at 11:43 AM on July 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
[ Just noticed that in my last comment 'Democratic' was accidentally auto-corrected to 'Democrat' when I meant to say 'Democratic Party'. This was not intended to be a slur and I apologize for letting it slip by.]
posted by RonButNotStupid at 11:48 AM on July 22, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by RonButNotStupid at 11:48 AM on July 22, 2022 [7 favorites]
I am hopeful you're right, but I don't expect to see a partywide shift merely because Baldwin had an opportunity to tell Rubio off in private.
Also fair point; I think I also wasn't clear that I'm seeing it as more of a "promising first step" than a definitive Sign Of Overall Change. (For that I'd have to see something like Chuck Schumer telling Mitch McConnell to kiss his feet or something.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:07 PM on July 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Also fair point; I think I also wasn't clear that I'm seeing it as more of a "promising first step" than a definitive Sign Of Overall Change. (For that I'd have to see something like Chuck Schumer telling Mitch McConnell to kiss his feet or something.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:07 PM on July 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Manchin telling McConnell to kiss his ass would be better still.
It could happen. Strokes can do weird things.
posted by flabdablet at 12:10 PM on July 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
It could happen. Strokes can do weird things.
posted by flabdablet at 12:10 PM on July 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
I know I'm a strong member of the doom and gloom contingent, but I'm actually hopeful about the Jan 6 commission, the fact that these bills +talk about election protection are getting traction even if they are going to likely run into the Senate trash heap, and even some major Democrats getting sorta arrested.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/19/aoc-arrested-protest-abortion-rights-democrats
Any action from the party leadership is good. About time. AOC for President, return the filibuster to requiring real work and dedication at minimum, and keep hammering on the fact that one party claims to want government out of their business while forcing fascist beliefs down everything else.
posted by Jacen at 12:23 PM on July 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/19/aoc-arrested-protest-abortion-rights-democrats
Any action from the party leadership is good. About time. AOC for President, return the filibuster to requiring real work and dedication at minimum, and keep hammering on the fact that one party claims to want government out of their business while forcing fascist beliefs down everything else.
posted by Jacen at 12:23 PM on July 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
The filibuster is not an acceptable excuse. Unless the Dems get Manchin and Sinema in line, they are absolutely at fault for all legislation that does not pass while they have a majority.
The stakes are simply too high not to hold seated legislators accountable for their duty to protect Americans from the worst abuses of an out-of-control, extremist right.
This is not Schoolhouse Rock; there are real consequences for millions of people from the gradual slide into fascism currently happening on the Dems' watch.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:30 PM on July 22, 2022 [10 favorites]
The stakes are simply too high not to hold seated legislators accountable for their duty to protect Americans from the worst abuses of an out-of-control, extremist right.
This is not Schoolhouse Rock; there are real consequences for millions of people from the gradual slide into fascism currently happening on the Dems' watch.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:30 PM on July 22, 2022 [10 favorites]
Unless the Dems get Manchin and Sinema in line
How? All Sinema has to do is defect to the Republican Party, and there goes the Democratic majority in the Senate, and any chance at all to pass any Democratic priorities.
The Democrats are not the only ones with agency here. The "gradual slide into fascism currently happening on the Dems' watch" is being actively undertaken by the Republican Party, so while yes, the Democrats should do everything within their power to stop them, the Republicans and only the Republicans are actually the ones responsible for a major political party embracing fascism as a hedge against their unpopular policies.
And if the Democrats have limited power to force Manchin or Sinema to vote as we'd like, the fact that they don't vote as we line is on them, not the rest of the Democrats who voted the right way.
posted by Gelatin at 12:38 PM on July 22, 2022 [25 favorites]
How? All Sinema has to do is defect to the Republican Party, and there goes the Democratic majority in the Senate, and any chance at all to pass any Democratic priorities.
The Democrats are not the only ones with agency here. The "gradual slide into fascism currently happening on the Dems' watch" is being actively undertaken by the Republican Party, so while yes, the Democrats should do everything within their power to stop them, the Republicans and only the Republicans are actually the ones responsible for a major political party embracing fascism as a hedge against their unpopular policies.
And if the Democrats have limited power to force Manchin or Sinema to vote as we'd like, the fact that they don't vote as we line is on them, not the rest of the Democrats who voted the right way.
posted by Gelatin at 12:38 PM on July 22, 2022 [25 favorites]
[Last month] a grassroots slate of over 50 Democrats took control of the West Virginia Democratic Party after winning a majority of seats on the executive committee and ousting party leadership, thus ending Manchin’s de facto control of the state party apparatus. Now, after a six-year organizing push, every old guard party apparatchik — save for the treasurer — is out of office, replaced with activists from across the Democratic spectrum set on revitalizing the state and forcing renewed support from the national party. The June 18 victories mark the beginning of the end for an era defined by atrophy, nose-diving voter rolls, and just a single Democratic statewide representative: Manchin. (The Intercept, June 30, 2022)
Manchin, 74, is in office until Jan. 2025, and plans to run for re-election.
[The junior senator from West Virginia, Shelley Moore Capito (R), age 68, is in office until Jan. 2027.]
Plans change.
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:08 PM on July 22, 2022 [16 favorites]
Manchin, 74, is in office until Jan. 2025, and plans to run for re-election.
[The junior senator from West Virginia, Shelley Moore Capito (R), age 68, is in office until Jan. 2027.]
Plans change.
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:08 PM on July 22, 2022 [16 favorites]
"maybe the Dems are ready to play rough" like that's hopeful
Unless the Dems get Manchin and Sinema in line
What are they supposed to do, take them out behind the bike shed and work them over?
posted by The Underpants Monster at 1:39 PM on July 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
Unless the Dems get Manchin and Sinema in line
What are they supposed to do, take them out behind the bike shed and work them over?
posted by The Underpants Monster at 1:39 PM on July 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
yes
posted by kokaku at 1:49 PM on July 22, 2022 [14 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 1:49 PM on July 22, 2022 [14 favorites]
Do we think the "majority whip" is a sweet ride? Yes, work them over. Figure out what it takes to get and keep them in line.
posted by explosion at 1:53 PM on July 22, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by explosion at 1:53 PM on July 22, 2022 [10 favorites]
Before we endorse intraparty violence, may I suggest blackmail? I find it impossible to believe that anyone can attain federal elected office—and yes, this even includes goody-goods like Sanders and AOC—without having something in their past that they wouldn't want revealed to the public, or perhaps the IRS. Do some digging!
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:56 PM on July 22, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:56 PM on July 22, 2022 [7 favorites]
Before we endorse intraparty violence, may I suggest blackmail?
I am pretty sure that is part of what the party whips in the UK use. Pretty much any kind of leverage to keep the congresspeople (or MPs) in line and voting as required.
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:00 PM on July 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
I am pretty sure that is part of what the party whips in the UK use. Pretty much any kind of leverage to keep the congresspeople (or MPs) in line and voting as required.
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:00 PM on July 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
Why In the hell would anyone be against contraception? No matter your viewpoint, it seems like there would be a strong argument in favor of limiting conception, even if it’s a supposed Other.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 3:00 PM on July 22, 2022
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 3:00 PM on July 22, 2022
Manchin could be much easier than some people think. As we all know, his daughter is a former pharma CEO and played a direct part in the Insulin price gouging scandal that's ongoing. Convene hearings on the pharma price gouging scandal and drag her into congress to answer. The justice dept. should also be involved. We can also start looking into his fossil fuel ties and whether all of the industry donations to his campaign are legit. Honestly, we keep digging into his past and his family sooner, or later he will either start to play ball or voters will say enough and find a better senator.
I haven't heard a whiff of scandal involving Sinema (aside from her repugnant personal views) but come on, you can't tell me someone that distasteful doesn't have skeletons in their closet.
posted by evilDoug at 3:02 PM on July 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
I haven't heard a whiff of scandal involving Sinema (aside from her repugnant personal views) but come on, you can't tell me someone that distasteful doesn't have skeletons in their closet.
posted by evilDoug at 3:02 PM on July 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
Even a whisper of one of these ideas and what would stop him from changing teams and giving away the Senate majority?
posted by Glinn at 3:13 PM on July 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Glinn at 3:13 PM on July 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
Why In the hell would anyone be against contraception?
I was gonna write out a list of reasons, but it was too upsetting. Basically they all boil down to misogyny and the need to control uppity women.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 3:18 PM on July 22, 2022 [18 favorites]
I was gonna write out a list of reasons, but it was too upsetting. Basically they all boil down to misogyny and the need to control uppity women.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 3:18 PM on July 22, 2022 [18 favorites]
Even a whisper of one of these ideas and what would stop him from changing teams and giving away the Senate majority?
This. Let's say Schumer takes away Manchin's committee assignments. Manchin walks into McConnell's office and says "do you want to be Senate Majority Leader? All I want is Chairman of Energy and Natural Resources."
At that point McConnell makes his turtle face and shakes Manchin's hand.
Manchin doesn't give a fuck about the parties. He's a vestigial Southern Democrat. He has no sense of pride or honor. The only thing he cares about is staying in the Senate and having as much power as possible within that committee. All of his personal wealth and the wealth of his patrons who have made him fabulously wealthy is tied to everything he can fuck with on that committee.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 3:51 PM on July 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
This. Let's say Schumer takes away Manchin's committee assignments. Manchin walks into McConnell's office and says "do you want to be Senate Majority Leader? All I want is Chairman of Energy and Natural Resources."
At that point McConnell makes his turtle face and shakes Manchin's hand.
Manchin doesn't give a fuck about the parties. He's a vestigial Southern Democrat. He has no sense of pride or honor. The only thing he cares about is staying in the Senate and having as much power as possible within that committee. All of his personal wealth and the wealth of his patrons who have made him fabulously wealthy is tied to everything he can fuck with on that committee.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 3:51 PM on July 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
Before we endorse intraparty violence, may I suggest blackmail?
Before blackmail, try plain old graft. In the cloakroom one morning, Chuck Schumer simply asks, "Joe, Krysten, how much will your votes COST? How much money do you want to caucus with democrats? We don't want to have to play hardball." (which is traditionally not a baseball, but rather a bar of soap in a gymsock...)
posted by mikelieman at 3:51 PM on July 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
Before blackmail, try plain old graft. In the cloakroom one morning, Chuck Schumer simply asks, "Joe, Krysten, how much will your votes COST? How much money do you want to caucus with democrats? We don't want to have to play hardball." (which is traditionally not a baseball, but rather a bar of soap in a gymsock...)
posted by mikelieman at 3:51 PM on July 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
Even a whisper of one of these ideas and what would stop him from changing teams and giving away the Senate majority?
Yeah, discussions of Manchin on the Internet attract a lot of tough-talking armchair political operators who in real life would be achieve results like:
TTAPO: Listen, Joe, we're tired of your nonsense. Here's what's going to happ—
[Manchin gets up and walks toward the door]
TTAPO: ...uh, where are you going?
Manchin: Mitch McConnell's office, then Fox News.
TTAPO: B-b-buh hey wait!
[door slams on TTAPO, Biden's agenda, and democracy in America]
posted by The Tensor at 3:54 PM on July 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
Yeah, discussions of Manchin on the Internet attract a lot of tough-talking armchair political operators who in real life would be achieve results like:
TTAPO: Listen, Joe, we're tired of your nonsense. Here's what's going to happ—
[Manchin gets up and walks toward the door]
TTAPO: ...uh, where are you going?
Manchin: Mitch McConnell's office, then Fox News.
TTAPO: B-b-buh hey wait!
[door slams on TTAPO, Biden's agenda, and democracy in America]
posted by The Tensor at 3:54 PM on July 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
We. Don't Have. A. Senate. Majority.
It's fiction.
As long as we can't use it, we don't have it.
So remind me again why we give a shit?
Because the repubs are nutters who would burn the whole town down just to inconvenience the dems?
Maybe you oughta take a look around. Every goddamned thing is on fire and every time they say no, we get no.
We can pack the court, we can fight this.
Or we can be a bunch of goddamned weenies crying because we don't like the mean kids.
posted by evilDoug at 3:59 PM on July 22, 2022 [7 favorites]
It's fiction.
As long as we can't use it, we don't have it.
So remind me again why we give a shit?
Because the repubs are nutters who would burn the whole town down just to inconvenience the dems?
Maybe you oughta take a look around. Every goddamned thing is on fire and every time they say no, we get no.
We can pack the court, we can fight this.
Or we can be a bunch of goddamned weenies crying because we don't like the mean kids.
posted by evilDoug at 3:59 PM on July 22, 2022 [7 favorites]
I'm waiting for forced birth advocates to decide that since we become people at the moment of fertilization, identical twins should only get one vote and chimeras should get two.
posted by clawsoon at 4:12 PM on July 22, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 4:12 PM on July 22, 2022 [11 favorites]
"he will either start to play ball or voters will say enough and find a better senator."
In West Virginia, the "better senator" who would be Joe Manchin's successor will be a Republican and likely one from the GQP. That being said, what good is the Senate Majority if you can't do anything with it?
1- It's far less cray-cray than a Q-Party majority in the Senate.
2- See 1.
Face it, until there is some kind of political realignment which neuters the straight up unhinged authoritarian Dominionist Q-tochracy which the base of the Republican Party has become in its desire to usher in The Idiocracy we are in for a very rough ride. Actually, we are in for a rough ride whether we are getting through that realignment or the christo-fascists take over.
posted by AJScease at 4:13 PM on July 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
In West Virginia, the "better senator" who would be Joe Manchin's successor will be a Republican and likely one from the GQP. That being said, what good is the Senate Majority if you can't do anything with it?
1- It's far less cray-cray than a Q-Party majority in the Senate.
2- See 1.
Face it, until there is some kind of political realignment which neuters the straight up unhinged authoritarian Dominionist Q-tochracy which the base of the Republican Party has become in its desire to usher in The Idiocracy we are in for a very rough ride. Actually, we are in for a rough ride whether we are getting through that realignment or the christo-fascists take over.
posted by AJScease at 4:13 PM on July 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
What are they supposed to do, take them out behind the bike shed and work them over?
For a start, bend the media, who crave access like junkies, and get them to report on money-grubbing schemes by them and their immediate fucking family members. FFS, we've talked about this before, endlessly. Dems are not helpless and we've got to stop tolerating the peddling of that dangerous notion. People's basic civil liberties are at play here.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 6:13 PM on July 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
For a start, bend the media, who crave access like junkies, and get them to report on money-grubbing schemes by them and their immediate fucking family members. FFS, we've talked about this before, endlessly. Dems are not helpless and we've got to stop tolerating the peddling of that dangerous notion. People's basic civil liberties are at play here.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 6:13 PM on July 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
If we’re saying we pressure Manchin/Sinema via investigations, then switching teams to the Republicans doesn’t stop that. This is all executive action. Mitch McConnell doesn’t control the Justice Department or other federal agencies. So if they switch teams in spite anyway then it’s a real shame that the IRS has found some irregularities. Sorry DHS needs to hold you for four hours before your flights now. The DEA heard of a drug running boat matching the description of Manchin’s yacht. Might need to hold it until the investigation is over. There are lots of ways to make their lives hell if they step out of line that running to McConnell won’t fix.
How far things can go before this ends up in court is what limits this, but I’m pretty sure the White House could find a John Yoo justification for all of it and go right up to the line of legality.
The other objection is that this is an abuse of power/not cricket, which is probably why your Joe Bidens aren’t going to do it. But this isn’t in service of a highway bill or something. This isn’t some minor squabble. It’s to protect a number of fundamental rights before we lose them altogether. You know, like voting. So Democrats need to go right up to the line and leverage all possible avenues, not just the ones suitable for School House Rock.
posted by delicious-luncheon at 5:25 AM on July 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
How far things can go before this ends up in court is what limits this, but I’m pretty sure the White House could find a John Yoo justification for all of it and go right up to the line of legality.
The other objection is that this is an abuse of power/not cricket, which is probably why your Joe Bidens aren’t going to do it. But this isn’t in service of a highway bill or something. This isn’t some minor squabble. It’s to protect a number of fundamental rights before we lose them altogether. You know, like voting. So Democrats need to go right up to the line and leverage all possible avenues, not just the ones suitable for School House Rock.
posted by delicious-luncheon at 5:25 AM on July 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
Manchin is literally a West Virginia coal baron. Have OSHA investigate literally every coal mine in West Virginia until he plays ball. Oh he is going to party switch? Now the EPA and IRS are involved. Daughter is a phama lobbyist? Now the FDA is looking over everything they have ever produced and every study they have ever conducted for irregularities. It all stops with one phone call.
I don't know as much about Sinema, but c'mon. It doesn't take LBJ showing his hog at the urinals. Cawthorne mentioned the coke orgies once and they buried him. And the Democrats are supposedly the party that can get things done and really care, not me sitting here on my underpants thinking things up on a Saturday morning.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 6:12 AM on July 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
I don't know as much about Sinema, but c'mon. It doesn't take LBJ showing his hog at the urinals. Cawthorne mentioned the coke orgies once and they buried him. And the Democrats are supposedly the party that can get things done and really care, not me sitting here on my underpants thinking things up on a Saturday morning.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 6:12 AM on July 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
This is the election to save America from fascism which is why we're backing the far-right candidates with $44 million in donations because this time the Pied Piper strategy is gonna work!
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 6:21 AM on July 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 6:21 AM on July 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
This is the election to save America from fascism which is why we're backing the far-right candidates with $44 million in donations because this time the Pied Piper strategy is gonna work!
And that's why the next governor of Maryland could (probably won't, but could) be the extreme-right Trumpist Dan Cox, whom "moderate" Republican and outgoing governor Larry Hogan has already denounced. I really don't like feeling like my life and human rights are just another political gambit in play.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:06 AM on July 23, 2022
And that's why the next governor of Maryland could (probably won't, but could) be the extreme-right Trumpist Dan Cox, whom "moderate" Republican and outgoing governor Larry Hogan has already denounced. I really don't like feeling like my life and human rights are just another political gambit in play.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:06 AM on July 23, 2022
The US political system is a zero-sum game. I hate it, we all hate it (the people in power are the only ones who like it), but pretending it isn't true only leads to empowering the worst people. I would love to be able to punish the Democrats for all kinds of failings. But the only way to punish the Democrats is to reward the Republicans, who are now open fascists whose stated platform is to destroy democracy and human rights. If you want to know WHY Democrats have been so uneffective, this is why. They don't need to be effective, they just need to be the lesser of two evils. I hate hate hate that the system rewards Democrats for doing nothing. But punishing Democrats is cutting off your nose to spite your face. Let's not cut off our own nose, okay? Can we just agree on not cutting off our own nose?
posted by rikschell at 6:07 PM on July 23, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 6:07 PM on July 23, 2022 [10 favorites]
« Older The Everything Musical Instrument | "The UES is a community and we need to be... Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
The SCOTUS reversal of Roe has already emboldened employees in pharmacies and stores to stop selling condoms to customers or take them off the shelves altogether. And this is on top of the existing problem of pharmacists refusing to fill prescriptions for birth control pills, even for medical conditions like endometriosis.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:17 AM on July 22, 2022 [24 favorites]