Video of Finnish PM Explaining Putin's 'Way Out' Viewed 4M Times
October 7, 2022 1:46 PM Subscribe
Roger that!
posted by goalyeehah at 2:39 PM on October 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by goalyeehah at 2:39 PM on October 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
She's not wrong.
posted by Chuffy at 2:50 PM on October 7, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by Chuffy at 2:50 PM on October 7, 2022 [10 favorites]
A slightly longer* version of that answer (and why it could plausibly happen) from Timothy Snyder: How does the Russo-Ukrainian War end? (hint: It's not nuclear war)
*Ok, a very long answer.
posted by gwint at 2:57 PM on October 7, 2022 [23 favorites]
*Ok, a very long answer.
posted by gwint at 2:57 PM on October 7, 2022 [23 favorites]
maybe a direct link to the original tweet by Rikhard Husu (nitter alternative) because newsweek is now at dailymail level of ugh no.
posted by scruss at 3:07 PM on October 7, 2022 [24 favorites]
posted by scruss at 3:07 PM on October 7, 2022 [24 favorites]
I love her slight twitch of her head as she says "leave." Git, go, shoo, gedowtaheah.
posted by Quasirandom at 3:24 PM on October 7, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by Quasirandom at 3:24 PM on October 7, 2022 [10 favorites]
Perfect answer.
posted by drewbage1847 at 3:48 PM on October 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by drewbage1847 at 3:48 PM on October 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
The view are now up to 5.9 million, which is to say, 1.07 times the population of Finland.
posted by Etrigan at 4:24 PM on October 7, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 4:24 PM on October 7, 2022 [11 favorites]
I so enjoyed her dismissive laugh at the end. Bullies like Putin hate that shit.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 4:38 PM on October 7, 2022 [17 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 4:38 PM on October 7, 2022 [17 favorites]
This is what plain-speaking and leadership look like, for anyone who is the least bit confused. Everything about this is perfect.
posted by ivanthenotsoterrible at 4:45 PM on October 7, 2022 [27 favorites]
posted by ivanthenotsoterrible at 4:45 PM on October 7, 2022 [27 favorites]
I would love to be a fly on the wall watching Putin's reaction to watching this in particular.
posted by loquacious at 4:48 PM on October 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by loquacious at 4:48 PM on October 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
Expect another round of Russian-backed social media posts attacking her for not being a nun…
posted by adamsc at 5:10 PM on October 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by adamsc at 5:10 PM on October 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
'a what?"
ulos rampilta?
Great response. Resolve does not bandy far linguistically. Ramp implies elevation, I believe it's an engineering term, here in Michigan, folks mostly say:
"take the next exit"
posted by clavdivs at 5:16 PM on October 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
ulos rampilta?
Great response. Resolve does not bandy far linguistically. Ramp implies elevation, I believe it's an engineering term, here in Michigan, folks mostly say:
"take the next exit"
posted by clavdivs at 5:16 PM on October 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
The news media, NYTimes included, has been spinning the nuclear warfare narrative very strongly over the past few weeks, and from an information literacy perspective it matters to take this sort of news blurb in context. What's notable here is that the reporter in the video was asking the Finnish leader about Biden's position. Her dismissal and changing of the question is rather indicative of a divide in the West on this current issue, of nuclear threats. Many people think being unwavering is the answer and any other response is conceding one's morality and ethics to a bully, to evil, etc. But others think the risks and problems of globalized nuclear warfare upturns people's moral intuitions that are more used to conventional war and conflict. The two sides are not able to see eye to eye on this. But what the reporter in the video did was to show that the US president's and the Finnish prime minister's remarks not on the same page, in a way that echoes that impasse. In this climate, whether and how much of which leader says is rhetoric vs genuine concern, regular citizens like us are not even privy to.
posted by polymodus at 5:42 PM on October 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by polymodus at 5:42 PM on October 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
I can understand both why leaders may want to take credible threats seriously and also why they may want to minimize normalization of the idea of nuclear warfare.
Having both voices is valuable, even if unintentional.
posted by jeoc at 6:07 PM on October 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
Having both voices is valuable, even if unintentional.
posted by jeoc at 6:07 PM on October 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
I saw that CNN makes Crimea a different color of "occupied" on maps of Ukraine, so I assume that the Pentagon would like to soften
US expectations for Crimea being part of Ukraine
Why else would they do that? I assume there is no legal or military difference
posted by eustatic at 6:13 PM on October 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
US expectations for Crimea being part of Ukraine
Why else would they do that? I assume there is no legal or military difference
posted by eustatic at 6:13 PM on October 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
Her dismissal and changing of the question is rather indicative of a divide in the West on this current issue, of nuclear threats.
It is not at all clear that Russia is presently a functional nuclear power at all.
Maintenance is expensive, and maintaining a military that is able to be operationally effective at all much less one where they actually are effective in the field, is an enormous undertaking.
I think we've all seen the pictures of Russian vehicles with rotted tires and other systemic failures that could have been avoided with basic, routine monthly maintenance - in the case of the trucks, literally just "drive around a bit once a month" - that didn't happen, and it's reasonable to assume that nuclear weapons systems require significantly more upkeep than, say, a truck.
There are already plenty of videos circulating of Ukrainian soldiers recovering Russian supplies and discovering that packages labelled "C4" are just blocks of wood in wrapping paper, of vehicles just falling apart or being abandoned in the field, and and and. Every oligarch's yacht, every expensive dacha is very likely to represent an critical step in a supply chain that's now broken, a maintenance project that didn't happen, some quantity of operational readiness that simply doesn't exist.
Given sufficient corruption, this is inevitable. And Russia, operationally, isn't much more than "sufficient corruption" these days.
posted by mhoye at 6:34 PM on October 7, 2022 [20 favorites]
It is not at all clear that Russia is presently a functional nuclear power at all.
Maintenance is expensive, and maintaining a military that is able to be operationally effective at all much less one where they actually are effective in the field, is an enormous undertaking.
I think we've all seen the pictures of Russian vehicles with rotted tires and other systemic failures that could have been avoided with basic, routine monthly maintenance - in the case of the trucks, literally just "drive around a bit once a month" - that didn't happen, and it's reasonable to assume that nuclear weapons systems require significantly more upkeep than, say, a truck.
There are already plenty of videos circulating of Ukrainian soldiers recovering Russian supplies and discovering that packages labelled "C4" are just blocks of wood in wrapping paper, of vehicles just falling apart or being abandoned in the field, and and and. Every oligarch's yacht, every expensive dacha is very likely to represent an critical step in a supply chain that's now broken, a maintenance project that didn't happen, some quantity of operational readiness that simply doesn't exist.
Given sufficient corruption, this is inevitable. And Russia, operationally, isn't much more than "sufficient corruption" these days.
posted by mhoye at 6:34 PM on October 7, 2022 [20 favorites]
Why is the US ruled by septugenarians and other countries get politicians who have a fucking clue?
posted by nestor_makhno at 6:49 PM on October 7, 2022 [20 favorites]
posted by nestor_makhno at 6:49 PM on October 7, 2022 [20 favorites]
Let us please not do ageism here.
posted by introp at 6:52 PM on October 7, 2022 [28 favorites]
posted by introp at 6:52 PM on October 7, 2022 [28 favorites]
Putin's Palace (wikipedia)
The buildings on the palace complex include a house with an area of 17,700 square metres (191,000 sq ft), an arboretum, a greenhouse, a helipad, an ice palace, a church, an amphitheater, a "tea house" (guest house), a gas station, an 80-metre (260 ft) bridge and a special tunnel inside the mountain with a tasting room.
Inside the main building are a swimming pool, aquadiskotheque arrangement, spa, saunas, Turkish baths, meat and fish, vegetable and dessert shops, a warehouse, a reading room, a music lounge, a hookah bar, a theater and a cinema, a wine cellar, a casino, and about a dozen guest bedrooms. The master bedroom is 260 square metres (2,800 sq ft) in size.[10]
An aquadiskotheque?
According to some reports he's the richest man in the world. Why not just enjoy it? Why become the most hated person in the world when you can be floating around in your private water disco? I mean, he's doing both, but it'd be way more chill without all the blood on your hands.
Hey Vladimir, it's not too late. You've heard of the sunk cost fallacy? Sure, you have to take the loss, but only so you don't lose more. End it all. It may be embrarassing, but a little ride on your giant rubber disco ducky will cheer you up.
posted by adept256 at 7:12 PM on October 7, 2022 [17 favorites]
The buildings on the palace complex include a house with an area of 17,700 square metres (191,000 sq ft), an arboretum, a greenhouse, a helipad, an ice palace, a church, an amphitheater, a "tea house" (guest house), a gas station, an 80-metre (260 ft) bridge and a special tunnel inside the mountain with a tasting room.
Inside the main building are a swimming pool, aquadiskotheque arrangement, spa, saunas, Turkish baths, meat and fish, vegetable and dessert shops, a warehouse, a reading room, a music lounge, a hookah bar, a theater and a cinema, a wine cellar, a casino, and about a dozen guest bedrooms. The master bedroom is 260 square metres (2,800 sq ft) in size.[10]
An aquadiskotheque?
According to some reports he's the richest man in the world. Why not just enjoy it? Why become the most hated person in the world when you can be floating around in your private water disco? I mean, he's doing both, but it'd be way more chill without all the blood on your hands.
Hey Vladimir, it's not too late. You've heard of the sunk cost fallacy? Sure, you have to take the loss, but only so you don't lose more. End it all. It may be embrarassing, but a little ride on your giant rubber disco ducky will cheer you up.
posted by adept256 at 7:12 PM on October 7, 2022 [17 favorites]
According to some reports he's the richest man in the world. Why not just enjoy it?
Asking an oligarch why they don't just stop and say "that's enough" makes as much sense as asking a metastasized cancer the same question. You don't get anywhere close to a position like that if the notion of "enough" matters at all or means anything to you.
posted by mhoye at 7:26 PM on October 7, 2022 [23 favorites]
Asking an oligarch why they don't just stop and say "that's enough" makes as much sense as asking a metastasized cancer the same question. You don't get anywhere close to a position like that if the notion of "enough" matters at all or means anything to you.
posted by mhoye at 7:26 PM on October 7, 2022 [23 favorites]
other countries get politicians who have a fucking clue?
Well, Joe had to "use the voice" concerning reckless Russian rattling. Also, also, There was Russian/Soviet thing about leaders retirement. Gorby, Yeltsin, Khrushchev, Trotsky. It's like a Pronunciamiento
The optics are not great here and the time for retirement has past.
aquadiskotheque
"You remember the first rule of retirement, George? No moonlighting, no fooling with loose ends, no private enterprise, ever. You remember who preaches this rule, at Sarratt, in the corridors? George Smiley did. Quote, "When it's over, it's over. Pull down the shutters, go home," unquote. We're over, George. We've got no license. They don't want us anymore"
-Toby Esterhase, Smiley's People.
posted by clavdivs at 7:33 PM on October 7, 2022 [9 favorites]
Well, Joe had to "use the voice" concerning reckless Russian rattling. Also, also, There was Russian/Soviet thing about leaders retirement. Gorby, Yeltsin, Khrushchev, Trotsky. It's like a Pronunciamiento
The optics are not great here and the time for retirement has past.
aquadiskotheque
"You remember the first rule of retirement, George? No moonlighting, no fooling with loose ends, no private enterprise, ever. You remember who preaches this rule, at Sarratt, in the corridors? George Smiley did. Quote, "When it's over, it's over. Pull down the shutters, go home," unquote. We're over, George. We've got no license. They don't want us anymore"
-Toby Esterhase, Smiley's People.
posted by clavdivs at 7:33 PM on October 7, 2022 [9 favorites]
Yandex, Russia's second-largest search engine, just said "screw it" and turned off all national borders on their maps so they wouldn't have to deal with what's going on in Ukraine.
The current Ukraine thread (there's been one unbroken chain of them, one every month) is over here.
posted by meowzilla at 7:41 PM on October 7, 2022 [9 favorites]
The current Ukraine thread (there's been one unbroken chain of them, one every month) is over here.
posted by meowzilla at 7:41 PM on October 7, 2022 [9 favorites]
The news media, NYTimes included, has been spinning the nuclear warfare narrative very strongly over the past few weeks,
The New York Times, beating the drums for war you say? Who could imagine such a thing happening.
Gasp.
posted by mhoye at 7:43 PM on October 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
The New York Times, beating the drums for war you say? Who could imagine such a thing happening.
Gasp.
posted by mhoye at 7:43 PM on October 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
he's the richest man in the world.
I've heard it said that most of his money is currently attributed to others. When he needs it, however, he simply makes a phone call and someone who is currently holding on to some of Putin's money, under the false impression that it is their own, "falls out a window". From that point of view, his personal wealth is indistinguishable from not just the wealth of the nation but includes that of everyone who lives in it also.
Xi Jinping might be the only other world leader than could claim to exceed his ability to personally access money, but I'm not sure even China is quite that authoritarian. It's moving that way though.
posted by bonehead at 7:58 PM on October 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
I've heard it said that most of his money is currently attributed to others. When he needs it, however, he simply makes a phone call and someone who is currently holding on to some of Putin's money, under the false impression that it is their own, "falls out a window". From that point of view, his personal wealth is indistinguishable from not just the wealth of the nation but includes that of everyone who lives in it also.
Xi Jinping might be the only other world leader than could claim to exceed his ability to personally access money, but I'm not sure even China is quite that authoritarian. It's moving that way though.
posted by bonehead at 7:58 PM on October 7, 2022 [6 favorites]
The New York Times, beating the drums for war
It's not just the media, the president of the United States invoked the Cuban missile crisis this week.
If anything, talking about the risk of nuclear escalation has been the go-to for people who want the US to pull back support for Ukraine and let Russia take a win.
posted by BungaDunga at 8:00 PM on October 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
It's not just the media, the president of the United States invoked the Cuban missile crisis this week.
If anything, talking about the risk of nuclear escalation has been the go-to for people who want the US to pull back support for Ukraine and let Russia take a win.
posted by BungaDunga at 8:00 PM on October 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
If anything, talking about the risk of nuclear escalation has been the go-to for people who want
... the human race to survive in a meaningful way?
posted by philip-random at 8:11 PM on October 7, 2022 [8 favorites]
... the human race to survive in a meaningful way?
posted by philip-random at 8:11 PM on October 7, 2022 [8 favorites]
If the threat of nuclear war with Russia causes NATO to back down now, then functionally Putin has won forever. He will never stop expanding because he has been shown that he just has to keep pushing and his opponents will back down.
posted by PennD at 8:14 PM on October 7, 2022 [26 favorites]
posted by PennD at 8:14 PM on October 7, 2022 [26 favorites]
... the human race to survive in a meaningful way?
Well, sure. There's good-faith reasons to be worried about escalation! I just mean that it's not beating the drums for war to talk about escalation risks, that's all. If anything it's a reason (quite probably a bad one, as PennD says) to try to end hostilities in Ukraine, no matter the cost to Ukrainians.
(in my opinion, if Ukraine- which is overwhelmingly the most likely victim of any nuclear use by Putin- isn't being cowed by these threats then we shouldn't be either)
posted by BungaDunga at 8:27 PM on October 7, 2022 [7 favorites]
Well, sure. There's good-faith reasons to be worried about escalation! I just mean that it's not beating the drums for war to talk about escalation risks, that's all. If anything it's a reason (quite probably a bad one, as PennD says) to try to end hostilities in Ukraine, no matter the cost to Ukrainians.
(in my opinion, if Ukraine- which is overwhelmingly the most likely victim of any nuclear use by Putin- isn't being cowed by these threats then we shouldn't be either)
posted by BungaDunga at 8:27 PM on October 7, 2022 [7 favorites]
There's something to be said for explaining the consequences of actions before they happen. That's not necessarily beating the drums of war, and perhaps resolve now increases the chance of peace.
posted by hypnogogue at 8:31 PM on October 7, 2022 [13 favorites]
posted by hypnogogue at 8:31 PM on October 7, 2022 [13 favorites]
I know all of the various reasons why this cannot and should not happen, but I would dearly love it if a reporter asked Putin, "How long do you think you can lose this war before one of your own people assassinates you for it?"
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:32 PM on October 7, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:32 PM on October 7, 2022 [7 favorites]
Might have happened already. Asking the question is easy, getting a chance to report it needs a oujia board.
posted by adept256 at 8:44 PM on October 7, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 8:44 PM on October 7, 2022 [11 favorites]
I lurk at a alt-right, old, crappy webplace just to see what kind of whacked out and hateful bullshit they embrace and encourage. Some of the activity there is full on pro Putin, more of it is pro Ukraine.
Today there was a "Putin Jokes" thread and there were some good ones! Here they are as bare bones as I can remember them, feel free to make them longer, do goofy voices, whatever you want!
1.Putin is being briefed on the war by his top staff. They tell him there is good news and bad news.
The good news is that the latest big cache of weapons and ammo the Ukraine acquired is old, worn out, and poses little threat to the Russian forces. The bad news is The Ukrainians had just captured a large cache of Russia's best weapons and ammo.
2. A man in Moscow is in the street yelling "THE PRESIDENT IS AN IDIOT!!" He is swiftly surrounded by security forces. They detain him and remind him saying that is against the law. The man says "no, I'm talking about Zelensky, I'm for the war!"
"You can't fool us, everyone knows who the real idiot is." say the security men, and take the guy to jail.
3. Putin dies and goes to hell. After five years the devil decides to give Putin a furlough day. Vlad goes to his favorite pub in Moscow and has a beer and chats with the bartender.
"Do we still have Crimea?
"Yes, we do!"
"and the Donbas?
"Indeed we do!"
"and Kiev?"
"The pride of our nation!"
"That's great, I can go back to hell happy. How much for the beer?"
"5 euros please."
posted by vrakatar at 10:11 PM on October 7, 2022 [43 favorites]
Today there was a "Putin Jokes" thread and there were some good ones! Here they are as bare bones as I can remember them, feel free to make them longer, do goofy voices, whatever you want!
1.Putin is being briefed on the war by his top staff. They tell him there is good news and bad news.
The good news is that the latest big cache of weapons and ammo the Ukraine acquired is old, worn out, and poses little threat to the Russian forces. The bad news is The Ukrainians had just captured a large cache of Russia's best weapons and ammo.
2. A man in Moscow is in the street yelling "THE PRESIDENT IS AN IDIOT!!" He is swiftly surrounded by security forces. They detain him and remind him saying that is against the law. The man says "no, I'm talking about Zelensky, I'm for the war!"
"You can't fool us, everyone knows who the real idiot is." say the security men, and take the guy to jail.
3. Putin dies and goes to hell. After five years the devil decides to give Putin a furlough day. Vlad goes to his favorite pub in Moscow and has a beer and chats with the bartender.
"Do we still have Crimea?
"Yes, we do!"
"and the Donbas?
"Indeed we do!"
"and Kiev?"
"The pride of our nation!"
"That's great, I can go back to hell happy. How much for the beer?"
"5 euros please."
posted by vrakatar at 10:11 PM on October 7, 2022 [43 favorites]
If the threat of nuclear war with Russia causes NATO to back down now, then functionally Putin has won forever. He will never stop expanding because he has been shown that he just has to keep pushing and his opponents will back down.
That seems short-sighted to me.
Ukraine is not part of NATO. If they had been, the first Russian troops crossing the border would've triggered World War III. I think the invasion would've been much less likely to happen under those circumstances. So Russia might continue expanding through non-NATO nations, but NATO is expanding too (through diplomacy, not invasion). Finland and Sweden have applied and are waiting for final ratification. Other nations who might find themselves in Russia's crosshairs in the future are sure to consider. In other words, Russia's aggression is reducing Russia's options for future aggression.
posted by swr at 10:34 PM on October 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
That seems short-sighted to me.
Ukraine is not part of NATO. If they had been, the first Russian troops crossing the border would've triggered World War III. I think the invasion would've been much less likely to happen under those circumstances. So Russia might continue expanding through non-NATO nations, but NATO is expanding too (through diplomacy, not invasion). Finland and Sweden have applied and are waiting for final ratification. Other nations who might find themselves in Russia's crosshairs in the future are sure to consider. In other words, Russia's aggression is reducing Russia's options for future aggression.
posted by swr at 10:34 PM on October 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
Turns out leaving just got a lot more difficult.
posted by Candleman at 3:50 AM on October 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Candleman at 3:50 AM on October 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
Yeah, is it symbolic if a bridge is literally burning?
posted by adept256 at 4:06 AM on October 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 4:06 AM on October 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
I so enjoyed her dismissive laugh at the end. Bullies like Putin hate that shit.
Fascists like Putin (or virtually any Republican in the U.S.) get triggered by any young, attractive woman in a position of power who won’t take anyone’s shit, in particular the shit of a right-wing fascist. For an even better example of this, see AOC (who's a person of color to boot, adding yet another layer of head-imploding frustration).
posted by zardoz at 4:09 AM on October 8, 2022 [11 favorites]
Fascists like Putin (or virtually any Republican in the U.S.) get triggered by any young, attractive woman in a position of power who won’t take anyone’s shit, in particular the shit of a right-wing fascist. For an even better example of this, see AOC (who's a person of color to boot, adding yet another layer of head-imploding frustration).
posted by zardoz at 4:09 AM on October 8, 2022 [11 favorites]
She probably thought "Off Ramp" was a minor character in The Handmaid's Tale.
posted by chavenet at 5:17 AM on October 8, 2022
posted by chavenet at 5:17 AM on October 8, 2022
Putin dramatically escalating carries significant personal risks for him. If he were to give unthinkable orders, there is a real chance that a coup will result. Just because he’s gamed it out and thinks that western countries won’t push back, doesn’t mean that the people who have to execute his orders agree.
And example of the limitations of his control is the absence of the Chechen and Wagner forces where it really counts. Some of that is related just to the fragmentation of military command, but you have to wonder what would happen if he publicly ordered the Chechen forces to spearhead retaking Izyum.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 7:10 AM on October 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
And example of the limitations of his control is the absence of the Chechen and Wagner forces where it really counts. Some of that is related just to the fragmentation of military command, but you have to wonder what would happen if he publicly ordered the Chechen forces to spearhead retaking Izyum.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 7:10 AM on October 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
If she has any spare time at all I’d welcome her to take over the day to day job of running Canada.
posted by whatevernot at 8:05 AM on October 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by whatevernot at 8:05 AM on October 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
I thought this Bret Devereaux Twitter thread on the off-ramp was interesting.
To be a touch less flippant, I think the problem with finding Putin de-escalation options is that he pretty evidently doesn't *want* to de-escalate.posted by TheophileEscargot at 8:33 AM on October 8, 2022 [19 favorites]
If Putin was looking to trade some gains to hold on to others, there might be a case for negotiations. But he's not doing that!
Instead he's annexing territory he doesn't even control to tie his hands and the hands of any potential successor, to be unable to concede Ukrainian soil currently under the feet of Ukrainian soldiers.
No off-ramp can be useful for a man who wants to be on the highway.
Why is the US ruled by septugenarians
There'll be good news coming in 6 weeks.
posted by biffa at 10:19 AM on October 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
There'll be good news coming in 6 weeks.
posted by biffa at 10:19 AM on October 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
As I've noted before philip-random, we've now figured out the global risks from nuclear war were grossly exaggerated. We've multiple individual forest first that burn vastly more acreage than burns in typical models, but no nuclear winter so far.
It's possible for America and Russia to pound each other pretty badly, but any "nuclear winter" or "nuclear summer" effect they manage would be rounding error next to climate change for everyone else.
posted by jeffburdges at 12:33 PM on October 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
It's possible for America and Russia to pound each other pretty badly, but any "nuclear winter" or "nuclear summer" effect they manage would be rounding error next to climate change for everyone else.
posted by jeffburdges at 12:33 PM on October 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
but broadly speaking, nuclear war is still 'bad'
posted by ryanrs at 12:56 PM on October 8, 2022 [14 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 12:56 PM on October 8, 2022 [14 favorites]
Though a senior tory did say this week that if Putin set off a nuclear weapon in Ukraine then it might change Liz Truss' chances of getting re-elected. So yeah, pretty much all bad
posted by biffa at 2:43 PM on October 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by biffa at 2:43 PM on October 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
we've now figured out the global risks from nuclear war were grossly exaggerated.
posted by Flunkie at 6:48 PM on October 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Flunkie at 6:48 PM on October 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
The bad news is that we figured that out because the climate change we're engaged in is worse
posted by eustatic at 7:04 AM on October 9, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by eustatic at 7:04 AM on October 9, 2022 [7 favorites]
I liked how she said that, and I think it has extra weight coming from the leader of a country that directly adjoins Russia.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:12 AM on October 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Dip Flash at 7:12 AM on October 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
It's possible for America and Russia to pound each other pretty badly, but any "nuclear winter" or "nuclear summer" effect they manage would be rounding error next to climate change for everyone else.
This strikes me as a “Leukemia isn’t nearly as bad as pancreatic cancer” argument.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:16 AM on October 9, 2022 [8 favorites]
This strikes me as a “Leukemia isn’t nearly as bad as pancreatic cancer” argument.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:16 AM on October 9, 2022 [8 favorites]
Having lived through the cold war I never had existential dread about Nuclear Winter. It was always about the 100s of millions of people that would die either immediately or as the result of radiation, war lording and disruption of systems. Fear of Nuclear Winter is something that comes about if people think it is possible to win an all out nuclear exchange. Technically maybe, but the people left are going to too busy to worry about whether the Communists or Capitalists "won".
posted by Mitheral at 7:26 AM on October 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by Mitheral at 7:26 AM on October 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
Why is the US ruled by septugenarians
Seriously?
Because people voted for them.
They're not unelected dynasts.
Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden are both currently serving terms to which they were elected less than 2 years ago.
Biden pretty soundly beat a large field of mostly younger contenders in 2020. (His closest competitor was someone as old as he is.)
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 5:44 PM on October 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
Seriously?
Because people voted for them.
They're not unelected dynasts.
Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden are both currently serving terms to which they were elected less than 2 years ago.
Biden pretty soundly beat a large field of mostly younger contenders in 2020. (His closest competitor was someone as old as he is.)
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 5:44 PM on October 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
Hey, friends. Please keep in mind that in modern times Russia have annexed Finland once, attempted a second time, and still possess portions of the country. I am in my 30s and have had friends whose family homes were on annexed land. This is personal and these are fresh wounds.
Also fuck Putin.
posted by seraphine at 10:57 PM on October 9, 2022 [17 favorites]
Also fuck Putin.
posted by seraphine at 10:57 PM on October 9, 2022 [17 favorites]
I am so sorry, seraphine. That truly sucks.
posted by Bella Donna at 9:30 AM on October 10, 2022
posted by Bella Donna at 9:30 AM on October 10, 2022
Thank you for the Bret Devereaux link.
I knew there were women in the Ukrainian army, but had heard very little about it. A fast search turns up 15%, with one claim of 22%.
Women in the Ukrainian army
Ukrainian soldiers singing Bella Ciao in a trench
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 2:52 AM on October 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
I knew there were women in the Ukrainian army, but had heard very little about it. A fast search turns up 15%, with one claim of 22%.
Women in the Ukrainian army
Ukrainian soldiers singing Bella Ciao in a trench
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 2:52 AM on October 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
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posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 2:26 PM on October 7, 2022 [7 favorites]