The most NASCAR thing ever.

October 31, 2022 8:20 PM

Ross Chastain (driving the red and black car) picks up five places to qualify for the winner take all NASCAR 2022 Cup Series championship in the Phoenix on Nov. 6 with the most Hollywood move I've seen in five decades of watching stock car racing. SLYT to compilation of dozens of views. Some NSFW language.

He bumped Denny Hamlin in the purple-and-blue-and-white car who on getting passed comments understately “I guess we just lost on that…”

posted by Mitheral (52 comments total)

I don't love NASCAR, but I loved this.
Go get it!
posted by Acari at 8:42 PM on October 31, 2022

Took me the whole video to get a sense of what was actually going on. He wasn't so much riding the wall as not caring if he hit it while taking an aggressive outside line. This should make last laps more interesting for the near future.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:52 PM on October 31, 2022 [6 favorites]

So do I understand correctly that he overcame the problem of losing tire grip due to centrifugal force on a turn by using the wall? And that allowed him to go faster?
posted by clawsoon at 8:56 PM on October 31, 2022 [3 favorites]

Shades of Days of Thunder. I almost want a Mello-Yello now. Damnit Cole!
posted by wierdo at 8:58 PM on October 31, 2022 [2 favorites]

This should make last laps more interesting for the near future.

Joey Logano's response is interesting in this regard.

A. he found it hilarious
B. he thinks NASCAR needs to immediately ban any similar future moves basically because it's fucking dangerous -- people will get hurt

And (some back story) -- people have been getting hurt this year in NASCAR.
posted by philip-random at 9:04 PM on October 31, 2022 [6 favorites]

Whose idea was it? Is this something they practised? Did the team know about it beforehand?
posted by clawsoon at 9:06 PM on October 31, 2022

I have the same question as clawsoon.
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:16 PM on October 31, 2022

This is hilarious. Any rules against two more wheels, mounted vertically on the right side of the car?
posted by achrise at 9:24 PM on October 31, 2022 [14 favorites]

According to this tweet, he learned it playing NASCAR 2005 on the GameCube, but didn’t know if it would actually work until he did it.
posted by gc at 9:28 PM on October 31, 2022 [17 favorites]

"people will get hurt"

How about a new class: self-driving NASCAR?
posted by Marky at 9:40 PM on October 31, 2022 [2 favorites]

> Any rules against two more wheels, mounted vertically on the right side of the car?

I don't follow NASCAR, but I believe it has fewer rules prohibiting this than it does against every single powerplant, braking, or suspension technology that's been introduced to production automobiles since about 1982.
posted by 7segment at 11:31 PM on October 31, 2022 [2 favorites]

Grim experience has probably caused NASCAR to design those walls to be as frictionless as possible and with a complete absence of protuberances in order to minimize the severity of crashes and to keep anything on the wall from 'catching at' cars that have glancing encounters and then sending them spinning end for end back onto the track.

And Chastain was smart enough and brave enough to take advantage of that.

Congratulations to him!
posted by jamjam at 11:43 PM on October 31, 2022

Showed this to a friend who said "The move will be banned, of course. All that safety barrier will have to be replaced," to which I replied "So what you're saying here is that on top of being innovative and determined, this particular good ol' boy is a job creator."
posted by MarchHare at 12:03 AM on November 1, 2022 [21 favorites]

This is nothing. I have insider information that, in his next race, he's going to attempt the Rainbow Road hop-shortcut.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 12:33 AM on November 1, 2022 [16 favorites]

I am thrilled that "using the wall to take corners at top speed" actually works outside of video games with wonky physics

even if it is NASCAR, my go-to example for why the American South doesn't get out enough
posted by Merus at 1:19 AM on November 1, 2022 [2 favorites]

Turns out the sort of PS2 era of racing games had the physics right. Huh.
posted by Dysk at 1:20 AM on November 1, 2022 [1 favorite]

It's a legit move, but it will ONLY WORK FOR ONE CORNER, because it basically destroyed the car's front-right end. The car's worthless after that. If you watch it from his own POV, you can see that the corner's completely ripped out and I doubt the wheel is even on straight. It's a "Hail Mary" move where if he did it wrong or just bad luck (the wall deformed enough to "trap" him and spin him) he's going to be out completely. But for him it's "go big or go home" time.
posted by kschang at 1:28 AM on November 1, 2022 [9 favorites]

I don't follow NASCAR, but I believe it has fewer rules prohibiting this than it does against every single powerplant, braking, or suspension technology that's been introduced to production automobiles since about 1982.

I haven't followed nascar for a long time and won't again until/unless they just have normal races and a normal championship again, but the new car they're using is much more modern.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 3:18 AM on November 1, 2022

Anyone else getting hopelessly confused between Ross Chastain, Roz Chast and Jessica Chastain?
posted by Hogshead at 3:33 AM on November 1, 2022 [14 favorites]

In any other racing series, the second that car hit the wall the yellow would have come out and the field frozen. This being NASCAR, the response from officials is “Let’s see what happens next.”
posted by Thorzdad at 4:35 AM on November 1, 2022 [7 favorites]

This sets a dangerous precedent in my world, because my go-to response to family experiencing tech problems is to tell them to Google it and watch a YouTube on how somebody else fixed the same problem.

We can't have Nascar drivers out there being the first to ever do something, it tells my family that some solutions haven't been attempted before and I'm going to end up being expected to fix them.
posted by Molesome at 4:46 AM on November 1, 2022 [4 favorites]

> the new car they're using is much more modern.

Indeed! Their having finally gone over to fuel injection a couple years ago gives me hope I might not die before seeing them admit that overhead cam engines are a thing that exists.
posted by 7segment at 4:52 AM on November 1, 2022 [3 favorites]

In any other racing series, the second that car hit the wall the yellow would have come out and the field frozen. This being NASCAR, the response from officials is “Let’s see what happens next.”

No, he didn't slam into the wall, he didn't bump it, he didn't nudge it ... he rubbed it. And rubbin', son, is racin'.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:25 AM on November 1, 2022 [15 favorites]

I hope they nickname him Zamboni because he rode the boards, iced the field, and cleaned up.
posted by meinvt at 5:32 AM on November 1, 2022 [10 favorites]

Metafilter is the last place I would expect to call my attention to a NASCAR race, but I guess I shouldn’t be so quick to stereotype. I hope Brockles sees this and weighs in; his comments on automobiles and racing are always enlightening!
posted by TedW at 5:39 AM on November 1, 2022 [2 favorites]

“This is the best thing of 2022 in motor racing !
We all did this on video games with damage disable. Never thought this could become reality 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻”— Fernando Alonso (@alo_oficial) October 31, 2022

posted by ob1quixote at 6:13 AM on November 1, 2022 [6 favorites]

There's no way to practice this, right? I hope?
posted by eustatic at 6:21 AM on November 1, 2022

It was a dangerous, jerkwad move that damaged the track and could have injured other drivers. He even bumped the car in front of him (and not in a controversial bump and run move, but it seems like he just didn't brake enough in time to avoid it). Accidents can be mitigated and are forgiveable: this was intentional and should get him banned from racing.

As fast as I'm concerned, the cheers for this are all coming from people who can't distinguish between reality and tv/movies/video games.
posted by AlSweigart at 6:26 AM on November 1, 2022

As fast as I'm concerned, the cheers for this are all coming from people who can't distinguish between reality and tv/movies/video games.

Fernando Alonso has done some racing in his time, including ovals. It was a dangerous move, but no more so than so many misjudged dives up the inside that are pretty commonplace (and that NASCAR doesn't like to police too much).
posted by Dysk at 6:57 AM on November 1, 2022 [3 favorites]

For anyone else looking to skip, the POV of the driver who rode the wall is at 2:33.

I didn't realize these cars had so much excess power. I naively assumed in NASCAR that cars were driving more or less at top speed all the time. But all Chastain needed to pass a bunch of cars was half a straightaway's worth of open space. Only the space wasn't open, he was grinding his car into a wall the whole time and yet still was accelerating enough to pass everyone.
posted by Nelson at 7:05 AM on November 1, 2022 [3 favorites]

I don't think it was until about 5 minutes in that I fully appreciated the speed involved in the stunt. Sitting through the clips was an exercise in becoming progressively more interested in and excited about something that I clicked into not really expecting that much. 5 minutes in is also where I discovered that NASCAR fans sometimes utilize very unusual vocalization.
posted by Leviathant at 8:13 AM on November 1, 2022

I naively assumed in NASCAR that cars were driving more or less at top speed all the time

Martinsville is a short track, about half a mile. The cars are definitely working with excess power there. But this is not the case for some other tracks they race on where, assuming everything's working right, the cars are more or less flat out all the time.

The wall trick would definitely not work at the majority of tracks, though it has been tried. Sort of.
posted by philip-random at 8:18 AM on November 1, 2022 [5 favorites]

This feels like something 43 would have tried if cars and tracks were then what they are now.

It'll be banned of course, something like "overtaking while in contact with the wall is not permitted" or whatever.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:19 AM on November 1, 2022

I didn't realize these cars had so much excess power.

They normally don't . This race occured on a "short" track where the drivers were continually having to brake and reduce speed to make turns on the (normally faster) inside line. the cars have a 5-speed transmission and they were usually only using 4th and 3rd gear.

BUT for the last half-lap Chastain was able to floor it in 5th, and pick up a slot in the championship race. You couldn't do this for the whole race due to damage done to the car. Also, there is an entrance gate on the perimeter that you would probably get hung up on and cause a very very bad (lethal) crash for at least yourself and maybe others.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 8:19 AM on November 1, 2022 [5 favorites]

Anyone else getting hopelessly confused between Ross Chastain, Roz Chast and Jessica Chastain?

All I'm saying is, I've never seen all 3 of them together in the same room...
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:25 AM on November 1, 2022 [4 favorites]

It was a dangerous move, but no more so than so many misjudged dives

Yes, but it wasn't dangerous and misjudged. It was dangerous and intentional.

And it'll be banned after the fact, and everyone knows it. But this driver decided to make an exception for themselves to do something that endangered himself and others for his own benefit. (Just like what happens in *gestures to rest of the current state of the country*) That's not something that should be rewarded, nor is it something that should go unpunished either.
posted by AlSweigart at 8:31 AM on November 1, 2022 [2 favorites]

But this driver decided to make an exception for themselves to do something that endangered himself and others for his own benefit.

What is all the things that happen in NASCAR up to and including "the existence of NASCAR", Alex?
posted by Etrigan at 8:34 AM on November 1, 2022 [8 favorites]

I thought Alonso had the best take so far, and it's not even close.
posted by some loser at 8:35 AM on November 1, 2022 [1 favorite]

Yes, but it wasn't dangerous and misjudged. It was dangerous and intentional.

See also: revenge wrecks, a NASCAR tradition.

(And "misjudged" was a bit of a euphemism)
posted by Dysk at 8:38 AM on November 1, 2022 [1 favorite]

NBC explains some of the physics involved here.
posted by TedW at 8:39 AM on November 1, 2022 [1 favorite]

a NASCAR tradition

So were confederate flags. (Still are, as long as they aren't visible on camera.)
posted by AlSweigart at 8:57 AM on November 1, 2022

In most games if you try to do that there is some kind of trigger or built in function that slows you down pretty rapidly. As a kid I had a gut feeling that doing that in real life would probably not slow you as much as it does in the game. I also assumed it would grind down the front of your car, sending dangerous debris out behind you like a comet plume and that NASCAR must have some kind of catchall rules that would discourage such an obviously dangerous manuver and disqualify such a win.
posted by kzin602 at 9:33 AM on November 1, 2022

@kzin602 wrote:
>>In most games if you try to do that there is some kind of trigger or built in function that slows you down pretty rapidly.

Well... Depends on how the game implements the collision model. Generally games do NOT model 3D collisions well. There used to be cases in older car games where collisions in close contact (grinding) results in an object propelled into the air like a rocket hundreds of feet. Modern car games are a bit better, but generally, you "bounce off" (i.e. are repelled from the wall) as if the wall is a mirror with a bit of braking vector added. But again, since the bounce is helping you turn, and if you are accelerating, this may be actually faster than relying on tire-grip alone to turn.

For those into Initial D, this is the inverse of the "gutter run". :D
posted by kschang at 10:57 AM on November 1, 2022 [1 favorite]

So were confederate flags. (Still are, as long as they aren't visible on camera.)

Right. Going Godwin-lite on this isn't the gotcha you think - the point is that it isn't outside of the more or less accepted risk profile of what going racing in NASCAR already entails anyway. It's not the first time it's been tried, and it hasn't been banned yet. If this is the time that causes someone to issue a ruling, it'll be because it's unsporting, not uniquely dangerous.
posted by Dysk at 11:40 AM on November 1, 2022 [1 favorite]

In most games if you try to do that there is some kind of trigger or built in function that slows you down pretty rapidly.

I recall that the best way to lazily generate large late-game sums of cash in the PS2 Gran Tursimo game I had (GT2 maybe?) was to ride the wall of an oval in a like F1 car with damage disabled. The game definitely applied a punitive coefficient of friction to wall collisions and wall riding but a sufficiently beefy engine could over come that especially with a big pickup of speed on the straights, so by setting your supercar up at the outer edge in a straight line and just flooring it you could take the race without pressing any button but the throttle. Zoom zoom zoom grind grind zoom zoom zoom grind grind checkered flag, pile of cash to...buy other supercars, I don't really remember.

The only problem was this big moneymaker race was also like 200 laps, which was an incredibly boring to sit through (also in the game, heyoooo), so the REAL trick was to use a series of rubberbands to put the pedal to the metal and then go do something else for an hour and come back to your automated winnings. I ruined one of the buttons on my PS2 controller doing that, applying too much downforce with my rubber band setup for a few hours.
posted by cortex at 11:50 AM on November 1, 2022 [1 favorite]

He even bumped the car in front of him (and not in a controversial bump and run move, but it seems like he just didn't brake enough in time to avoid it).

I think he had to (or thought he had to) push forward to beat the guy to his left.
posted by rhizome at 12:58 PM on November 1, 2022 [2 favorites]

which is the guy he needed to beat in order to advance to the Final Four (basically the last four drivers with a chance at winning the championship -- NASCAR's absurdly over-complicated way of doing things these days). The guy he just sneaked past by bumping that car was Denny Hamlin (#11), who until that moment had every reason to believe he was locked in to the Final Four.
posted by philip-random at 2:09 PM on November 1, 2022 [2 favorites]

Chastain's description of his decision-making isn't going to win him any points with the safety-minded; check his comment 42 seconds into this post-race interview:

"Once I got against the wall I basically just let go of the wheel and just hoped I didn't catch the turn 4 access gate or something crazy, but I was willing to do it..."

Some more choice quotes here:

Was it instinct? Was it a blind panic? What did it feel like? What questions was he asking himself inside the car?

“My brain could not comprehend, my bandwidth was shot when I entered Turn 3 and I grabbed fifth gear,” he said. “Everything went blurry. I couldn't comprehend it. But, yeah, I questioned it. When I grabbed fifth, I was like, 'Well, it's going now.' My foot stayed down. I committed to the wall early. It didn't slow down, so it worked.”

...“Halfway through the corner I saw [the gate], and I had not thought about that,” he admitted. “I did see it when I was in the middle of the corner, but it was too late. Testament to the wall.”

The clip of Chastain looking at the side of his car and just laughing is fun - "Yeah, it's destroyed" - but then you get to the part where he says "My head's a little scrambled as well" and pair that with this from Joey Logano posted earlier. Logano gets serious again and wonders how Chastain feels about it now: "You think about bouncing off the wall like that...your head's getting bounced around like crazy. You touch the fence, there's no suspension between your car and the fence, you know what I mean? It's really rough if you start riding the wall like that."
posted by mediareport at 8:44 PM on November 1, 2022

Is this something they practised? Did the team know about it beforehand?

He says he didn't think about it until the last lap, and it sounds like he checked with his team then:

“I never thought about it. Our prep this week, it never crossed my mind. I've done a lot of sim work this week, a lot of stuff, laps here virtually. Never once did it cross my mind to ever try it. I want to make that clear.

“The last time would have been a long time ago before I was even thinking about being a NASCAR driver. It flashed back in my head on the white flag, and I double-checked off of [Turn] 2. Like, through 1 and 2 I thought, 'I think we need two spots.' They said, ‘Yes’. If it wrecks, OK, we don't make it. It might not work, but I'll try it.
posted by mediareport at 8:50 PM on November 1, 2022 [1 favorite]

This was hilarious and cool, but yeah, probably should be banned. r/Formula1 was discussing this and someone linked to this horrific Mike Harmon crash when he rode the wall like Chastain (amazingly, he walked away from this).
posted by TwoStride at 9:56 PM on November 1, 2022

Yeah, this probably should be banned because, now they know it actually works, other drivers will use the tactic wherever they can and the odds are not in favour of everyone coming out of it as well as this guy did.

'Win it or bin it' is pretty common last-lap tactic in all forms of motorsport, but this really does take the cake. I like it a lot, while still thinking it can't be allowed in the future.
posted by dg at 10:14 PM on November 1, 2022 [1 favorite]

Dale Jr., Steve Letarte Share Opinions on Ross Chastain's Martinsville Move
posted by philip-random at 8:18 AM on November 4, 2022 [2 favorites]