Sarah Silverman addresses Dave Chapelle's SNL monologue

December 4, 2022 2:31 PM

The December 2 2022 episode of The Sarah Silverman Podcast, "Chapelle, B*Face, Anything Goes", spends much of its 50m running time with Sarah talking about Dave, anti-semitism, racism, her own past with blackface, and what all this seems to mean to her. I found this interestingly reflective and nuanced, and was worth my time to go through twice.

Sorry, no transcript that I know of. But maybe tone of voice is helpful with the nuance she's aiming for with this podcast.

posted by hippybear (22 comments total)

It's about 25 minutes, so about half. The second half is voicemails, which are worth listening to also.
posted by hippybear at 2:40 PM on December 4, 2022

I must admit, I'm wary - Silverman has also been pretty public about her disconnection from the audience, and how it's our fault for being too woke. I am... surprised, that someone whose act is built around crossing the line hard would be hosting a podcast for nuanced conversations in the first place.
posted by Merus at 3:59 PM on December 4, 2022 [4 favorites]

I will give this a listen later. I've always felt that when Sarah crosses a line, THAT was the joke - she knows that it's transgressive and she did it just to shock, and we also understand that she's not telling us how she actually feels, she's just making us laugh (if uncomfortably). Whereas with some other acts, they are being funny/serious in their commentary on something on the cutting edge of "woke", and giving some people justification for their own unease or opposition.

"Woke" is a moving target, tomorrow will be more woke than yesterday, and we don't all get there at the same time.
posted by Artful Codger at 4:38 PM on December 4, 2022 [5 favorites]

There’s a transcript at YouTube. Just read it. I haven’t been following much about Silverman but I found it a valuable and sobering take. And could imagine it in her voice which helped! Note there are podcast ads in the transcript which are a bit jarring. Know that when you’ve gotten to the composter ad you’ve reached the end of her piece. After the ads are her voicemail segment.
posted by wemayfreeze at 5:22 PM on December 4, 2022 [5 favorites]

There is a big audience for transgressive humor.
posted by interogative mood at 8:29 PM on December 4, 2022

There is a big audience for transgressive humor.

And watching Silverman break down these transgressive moments in her friend Dave's routine that genuinely left her cold is interesting. BECAUSE Silverman does transgressive humor. She's qualified to talk about this on a lot of levels, and I really truly appreciated her comments on the entire situation.
posted by hippybear at 8:45 PM on December 4, 2022 [18 favorites]

And Chapelle has, in my opinion, gone from transgressive, often shocking humor that was frequently genuinely hilarious... Into not knowing what is transgressive but funny and what's just lashing out at things he doesn't understand anymore. I'm never forgetting that Netflix paid him a lot of money for more shows after he was transphobic in public. Hate can sell. Making a joke out of racism or homophobia definitely has a place, but like Chapelle himself once knew, bigots can and will take the wrong message from it and create a cult
posted by Jacen at 9:36 PM on December 4, 2022 [23 favorites]

Her analysis of a few parts of chapelles rhetoric was really insightful. She notes his conclusion for instance was designed to insulate him from cancelation bc if he was canceled, it was therefore caused by “the Jews”. It felt like I was watching some meta tennis match abt antisemitism with very high stakes.

I actually didn’t realize her podcast was like this. Her philosophy about self care and mental health is so similar to the path I’ve been on for several years. She seems way more advanced though as I’m still white knuckling it most days. She’s interesting to me bc self compassion is such a crucial treatment for dealing with so many elements of mental health struggles as well as mindfulness but self compassion overtly can I think take a naive turn too as you may not exactly know how to interact with toxicity around you. You may take an almost nihilistic view but she’s interesting for holding a lot of things, a lot of true things, at once. I’ll definitely watch more of these.
posted by scunning at 10:22 PM on December 4, 2022 [7 favorites]

I don't have a lot of respect for Sarah Silverman because her success being based on mean jokes has given her a blind spot you could drive a truck through when it comes to pieces of shit who launder hate through jokes.

When Dave came out as transphobic a few years ago she supported him and now he's come out as an anti-semite the best she can muster is some bullshit about roasts only working when you love the person you're roasting?

Dave is now catering to the part of the audience for those roasts who never gave a shit about love and only watched to see comedians from minority backgrounds humiliate each other on stage. They just want permission to be hateful and Dave's giving it to them.

The only solution to people like Dave is to take away their platform to say anything they want as long as it makes enough bigots laugh and she can't see it because she's standing on it too.
posted by zymil at 12:22 AM on December 5, 2022 [14 favorites]

I have never found her to be hilarious.
posted by DJZouke at 5:17 AM on December 5, 2022 [5 favorites]

she can't see it because she's standing on it too

You'll get a lot of disagreemet on that, including from me.

The Hannah Einbinder response that she referenced is here for anyone else interested.

I actually didn’t realize her podcast was like this.

Gosh, when I was knee deep in a divorce her podcast was a legitimate salve. Sane and grounded throughout, never certain of its convictions, always flexible and receptive to human suffering. It's worth exploring her catalogue, even if you don't like her stand up or shows.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 5:31 AM on December 5, 2022 [5 favorites]

I thought she did a really good job of breaking it down, and she was probably the first commentator I saw who took his comment about Jews taking out their grievances on Black Americans as particularly problematic (and why), and how it's "folksiness" contributed to the affront.

I found myself really torn about her repetitions that he was her friend, and wanting to say nothing or let it go because of it - especially because (I wasn't following her about it) others here have pointed out that she said nothing about his transphobic comments. On the one hand, maybe this is her trying to give him a pass in general as a fellow comedian, and only calling him out about this issue because it's personal - which would be really gross. But I think it might be her hoping he'll see it, hoping that by repeatedly mentioning that she's reaching out to him as a friend, maybe she'll actually reach him.

Because I do think the only way to combat bigotry is through conversations and relationships - and (in my opinion) this really calls for one.
posted by Mchelly at 7:10 AM on December 5, 2022 [2 favorites]

Somehow, this McSweeney's article seems relevant: How to hate a Jew like a Jew
posted by cheshyre at 7:22 AM on December 5, 2022 [7 favorites]

I have never found her to be hilarious

This is no basis for discounting a thoughtful analysis presented by someone in the industry.

I am not a gamer - don’t enjoy it - and while I am in tech, I don’t “like” the use of algorithms for life-affecting purposes such as mortgages or access to pain medications, but I sure as hell listen in anyone deeply embedded in these fields when they present well-supported critiques of power dynamics, how these industries perceive and present what they say they are doing, and problems, biases, and blind-spots within their respective fields.
posted by Silvery Fish at 8:36 AM on December 5, 2022 [15 favorites]

When Dave came out as transphobic a few years ago she supported him and now he's come out as an anti-semite the best she can muster is some bullshit about roasts only working when you love the person you're roasting?

She's said in prior podcasts that she supports the trans community but didn't want to say anything against her friend, and so she cut the topic short.

I think she's trying. She was brought up in a comedian culture that is steeped in cruelty (think she started standup at 19?), and she's made huge strides to step out of that.

The thing about her saying that "roasts only work when you love the person you're roasting" is that it doesn't occur to her that nobody has to roast. She doesn't see it as a justification for sadism, she sees roasting as an outlet for peoples' natural inclinations.

I can relate, I'm in a similar (but very different) position. It's hard to step out of the water you're swimming in. A world without celebrating cruelty in some way just isn't conceivable for her yet.
posted by ishmael at 9:10 AM on December 5, 2022 [5 favorites]

Sorry, no transcript that I know of.

With YouTube, if you click the button with the three dots next to the "Share" button under the video, a menu will appear with a "Show transcript" option as the last item on the list. It will open a transcript window on the top right of the screen above the usual list of suggested videos. You can also toggle the default time stamps on the transcript off by clicking the three dots above the transcript and selecting that option.
posted by star gentle uterus at 10:04 AM on December 5, 2022 [3 favorites]

Seeing a lot of excuses for transphobia in this thread.

If you keep quiet while your friend is being transphobic, you're part of the problem.
posted by splitpeasoup at 10:27 AM on December 5, 2022 [17 favorites]

Seeing a lot of excuses for transphobia in this thread.

If you keep quiet while your friend is being transphobic, you're part of the problem.

100%.

I've said it before, there is a general problem with sadism in our culture.
posted by ishmael at 12:36 PM on December 5, 2022 [4 favorites]

The problem with Dave these days is that he's got a LOT of power and he's become a bully. He sees that Netflix has Chappelle's Show in their library and doesn't like that he's not getting a cut? Well, he can just "call his buddy at Netflix" and have them completely remove it from their service. That's real, actual, actionable power. Who amongst us has even 1/100th that kind of pull?

But then ... his reaction to other peoples' reactions to his TERF content (and, really, WHY does he need to talk about it so damn much? who was asking for his opinion on this shit?) was not just to double down and talk about it EVEN MORE, he also had his stupid bully pulpit stance with three demands :

“To the transgender community, I am more than willing to give you an audience,” [ ... ] “But you will not summon me. I am not bending to anybody’s demands.” [ ... ] "You must come to a place of my choosing, at a time of my choosing. And thirdly, you must admit that Hannah Gadsby is not funny"

That is something a bully with power says : "You will not summon me", "you must come to a place of my choosing" (translation : I have the control, and the power, here). No one was trying to "summon" him. There was a very reasonable outcry to his latest special "The Closer" and trans allies and trans folk were like "hey, since you seem to be ignoring any rational response to your latest remarks, can you let us explain to you WHY we feel this way? maybe broaden your perspective?". His response : "YOU CANNOT SUMMON ME!". Because, yeah, apparently an hour's worth of Dave's time is worth $20 million.

Netflix agreed in 2016 to give him $20 million per special. So, let's say you're Netflix, you say "alright, Dave, whatever you spit out, we'll air and give you twenty goddamn million dollars for the privilege". Dave delivers unto them something that includes some more-than-skirting-the-lines transphobic remarks in one of the earlier specials. Do you rile up Dave and tell him "hey, man, that ain't cool"?

Apparently, no. Ted Sarandos just sees dollar signs and doesn't really give two shits. But - for a moment - pretend he does. Or the board of directors has a conscience (I know! I know! Just go with me here!) and tells him "sorry, man, this is just cruel. We have really talented trans employees who will just up and quit if we promote this - can we just remove that chunk?".

Dave would, I guarantee you, spend a year touring the country and getting his own team to film him professionally for his YouTube channel (or the like), or even just call up apparently literally any news organization to say "Hey, it's Dave, I have things to say" blasting how Netflix is a terrible company stifling his creativity. Maybe some other streaming property pays him even more to do a whole new special, or buys the one Netflix rejected.

He cannot be cancelled. He's way too rich. Way too powerful. Way too respected from his past (admittedly genius) material. Even if you hate his current shit (which, outside of the powerful reminder of how good he can be in the mini-special 8:46), you're going to have a very hard time convincing anyone "oh Dave ain't shit and never has been".

The problem is : he knows this. He's protected from so many angles by so many people - including, crucially, the powerful who will happily give him a platform - that it doesn't even occur to him that whatever spews out of his mouth isn't genius-level gifts being handed out to anyone so privileged as to hear them. He's so damn high on his own supply, he literally brags about how good he is in almost every show he does. Even in his speech at Jon Stewart's Mark Twain Prize night, he couldn't stop himself from bragging that he did it first.

Anyway ol' Teddy boy Sarandos is only too happy to keep feeding the kitty.

While I'm (boringly) cisgendered and also not Jewish, I did spend Thanksgiving with my close friend's Jewish family and - though my friend is a fellow comedian (like me) and felt compelled to defend Chappelle - his family were none too happy with Dave's remarks, and were worried that monologue was doing nothing to help, and may end up making it worse and embolden more people to lean into anti-semitism. Why? Cause, historically, Dave has been a voice of the people, heavily quotable, and everyone knows he isn't too damn stupid to know what he's doing or saying. Something that, I believe, cannot be said for someone like "Ye"* or TFG.

* is it pronounced "Yeeee" like in Yeezy's, or Yay like Kanye?
posted by revmitcz at 1:49 PM on December 5, 2022 [16 favorites]

The other side of the "I can't possibly be hateful toward $minoritygroup, one of my best friends is $minoritygroup" coin is "That person can't possibly be hateful toward $minoritygroup because I'm $minoritgygroup and they treat me just fine."

It shames me to say my face has been both sides of that coin before. When I was on the "that person can't be hateful" side, I have to confess that I didn't truly believe the other person wasn't hateful, I just hoped that my feelings for them and my "noble example" would change their minds by getting them to extend their feelings about me to all members of my minority group.

In my experience, it never worked that way. It always ended up being the case that they were willing to make an exception for me and maybe a few other people from the group that they knew personally while continuing to broadly condemn the rest of the minority group. And, when I was younger, it led to things like people feeling like they were okay with saying the N-word and making racially-charged comments around me because, as was said to me on more than one occasion, "You know I don't mean you when I talk like that, I'm talking about other people."

Sad part is that I did truly like some of the people who were like that, and I kept thinking, "Why can't you be you without the racism part goddammit" for as long as I knew them. My gentle remonstrations and appeals to their better nature never seemed to work. Or maybe I didn't stick around long enough. Or maybe I should have blown up at them. Or told them why I was ending the relationship when I walked away. I don't know.

Anyway, I can see where Silverman is coming from with Chapelle. I hope she can reach him though I fear, as revmitcz and others have noted, he's far too insulated and sure enough of himself to be open to learning even from people who love him and whom he thinks he loves.
posted by lord_wolf at 2:34 PM on December 5, 2022 [8 favorites]

Mega-millionaires like Chappelle and even Louis CK aren’t cancellable in the here and now, but maybe it’s a small comfort that Chappelle had a real chance at being one of the eternal greats like Lennie Bruce, George Carlin or Richard Pryor, and he’s really clearly flushed that down the toilet. He’s spending large chunks of his stage time these days just lazily complaining that he got an angry letter or whatever. He’s moments away from just doing an entire set with variations of the One Conservative Joke

Chappelle has very firmly stapled his legacy to the present moment of bigotry. And one day, hopefully soon, that moment will pass
posted by Skwirl at 3:00 PM on December 6, 2022 [6 favorites]

And let's not forget that "cancelled" is really just suffering consequences for being an asshole. Assholes really hate having that pointed out to them.
posted by Jacen at 11:52 AM on December 8, 2022 [1 favorite]