Some Stylish Substance
March 29, 2023 6:54 AM Subscribe
The trailer for Asteroid City, Wes Anderson's latest film, is finally out. The poster was revealed yesterday and the opening date is set for June 16th (6/21 for wider release).
(I posted about this last year when details were more sparse.)
(I posted about this last year when details were more sparse.)
have we reached peak Wes Anderson yet?
I for one am glad there's a Wes Anderson, doing Wes Anderson things.
posted by elkevelvet at 7:15 AM on March 29, 2023 [15 favorites]
I for one am glad there's a Wes Anderson, doing Wes Anderson things.
posted by elkevelvet at 7:15 AM on March 29, 2023 [15 favorites]
a movie I actually want to see! I feel like that's finally happening more often again.
posted by wellifyouinsist at 7:26 AM on March 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by wellifyouinsist at 7:26 AM on March 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
Haven't missed a Wes Anderson movie in the theater since Mr. Fox and I'll be there on opening weekend.
posted by octothorpe at 7:28 AM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by octothorpe at 7:28 AM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
Twee Ennui?
Technically it's Ennui-sur-Blasé.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:29 AM on March 29, 2023 [32 favorites]
Technically it's Ennui-sur-Blasé.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:29 AM on March 29, 2023 [32 favorites]
There are movie trailers and there are Wes Anderson movie trailers that can, apart from everything else, drop in a line like “I’m a widower, but don’t tell my kids”
posted by rongorongo at 7:31 AM on March 29, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by rongorongo at 7:31 AM on March 29, 2023 [8 favorites]
kirkaracha you say tomato I say "everyone hates a critic"
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posted by djseafood at 7:44 AM on March 29, 2023
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posted by djseafood at 7:44 AM on March 29, 2023
Would make a great double feature with Mars Attacks!
posted by kirkaracha at 7:45 AM on March 29, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 7:45 AM on March 29, 2023 [4 favorites]
Did you mean "tomahto"?
posted by kirkaracha at 7:46 AM on March 29, 2023
posted by kirkaracha at 7:46 AM on March 29, 2023
This seems a lot more Wes Anderson than Wes Anderson usually Wes Andersons.
I have to say the giant painted desert backdrops bug me but that may be intentional.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:46 AM on March 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
I have to say the giant painted desert backdrops bug me but that may be intentional.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:46 AM on March 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
What a cast. Does Wes Anderson just have celebrities lined up outside his door or something?
Also, please read this in the voice from Peter and the Wolf: ‘the role of Bill Murray will be played by….Tom Hanks!’
posted by bq at 7:50 AM on March 29, 2023 [22 favorites]
Also, please read this in the voice from Peter and the Wolf: ‘the role of Bill Murray will be played by….Tom Hanks!’
posted by bq at 7:50 AM on March 29, 2023 [22 favorites]
Yep, it's Wes Anderson alright.
posted by tclark at 7:51 AM on March 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by tclark at 7:51 AM on March 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
This seems a lot more Wes Anderson than Wes Anderson usually Wes Andersons.
It's like he's collected all the years of feedback about his general sense of twee and said, Oh yeah?
posted by mochapickle at 7:52 AM on March 29, 2023 [20 favorites]
It's like he's collected all the years of feedback about his general sense of twee and said, Oh yeah?
posted by mochapickle at 7:52 AM on March 29, 2023 [20 favorites]
I'm in.
posted by bondcliff at 7:57 AM on March 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by bondcliff at 7:57 AM on March 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
"You thought you've seen deadpan, well. Have I got a le Crueset graveyard for you."
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:58 AM on March 29, 2023 [26 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:58 AM on March 29, 2023 [26 favorites]
1) Very excited to see this movie
2) If I ever have cause to post anything about Wes Anderson, here or anywhere else, I'm going to explicitly call for the commentariat to attempt a Challenge Mode for the discussion by expressing something about Anderson's style without using the word "twee".
posted by Ipsifendus at 7:58 AM on March 29, 2023 [10 favorites]
2) If I ever have cause to post anything about Wes Anderson, here or anywhere else, I'm going to explicitly call for the commentariat to attempt a Challenge Mode for the discussion by expressing something about Anderson's style without using the word "twee".
posted by Ipsifendus at 7:58 AM on March 29, 2023 [10 favorites]
I was hoping this would be an epic scifi set ON (or in) one of the actual asteroids. Well not an actual actual asteroid, which is certainly not practical until the next generation of spacex bfr rocket ships are finally launched, but a quality CGI representation of an actual asteroid.
posted by sammyo at 8:00 AM on March 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by sammyo at 8:00 AM on March 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
It's like, how much more Wes Anderson could it be?
And the answer is none. None more Wes Anderson.
posted by gauche at 8:00 AM on March 29, 2023 [14 favorites]
And the answer is none. None more Wes Anderson.
posted by gauche at 8:00 AM on March 29, 2023 [14 favorites]
I know what I like, and this, all of this, I like.
posted by zenon at 8:05 AM on March 29, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by zenon at 8:05 AM on March 29, 2023 [6 favorites]
It's like he's collected all the years of feedback about his general sense of twee and said, Oh yeah?
Hold my milk.
posted by Mchelly at 8:08 AM on March 29, 2023 [22 favorites]
Hold my milk.
posted by Mchelly at 8:08 AM on March 29, 2023 [22 favorites]
Also I admit I still haven’t seen The French Dispatch but I am so here for this one
posted by Mchelly at 8:11 AM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Mchelly at 8:11 AM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm going to explicitly call for the commentariat to attempt a Challenge Mode for the discussion by expressing something about Anderson's style without using the word "twee".
I have never once heard that word used outside of a discussion about Wes Anderson.
posted by bondcliff at 8:17 AM on March 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
I have never once heard that word used outside of a discussion about Wes Anderson.
posted by bondcliff at 8:17 AM on March 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
Liev Schreiber is really rockin that look.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 8:17 AM on March 29, 2023
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 8:17 AM on March 29, 2023
What a cast. Does Wes Anderson just have celebrities lined up outside his door or something?
Besides good will or whatever, it seems like these are extremely easy rolls. The set dressers and costumers do all the work. The actors just stand on their marks and evenly say their lines.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 8:26 AM on March 29, 2023 [18 favorites]
Besides good will or whatever, it seems like these are extremely easy rolls. The set dressers and costumers do all the work. The actors just stand on their marks and evenly say their lines.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 8:26 AM on March 29, 2023 [18 favorites]
Peak Anderson?
His next effort will be an hour of two people facing each other against a robin's egg blue background. And we'll all be there.
posted by skippyhacker at 8:26 AM on March 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
His next effort will be an hour of two people facing each other against a robin's egg blue background. And we'll all be there.
posted by skippyhacker at 8:26 AM on March 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
that sure is a lot of white people
posted by Jon_Evil at 8:30 AM on March 29, 2023 [29 favorites]
posted by Jon_Evil at 8:30 AM on March 29, 2023 [29 favorites]
I kinda love how the trailer drops both an A-bomb test and an alien visitation in the first half, and then it goes back to being a normal Wes Anderson movie with people having awkward emotional exchanges shot in perfectly framed profile.
People love to give Wes Anderson a lot of crap for having a highly mannered style and "making the same movie over and over", but I always enjoy spending time in the weird "sometime in the 20th century" worlds that he creates.
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:31 AM on March 29, 2023 [10 favorites]
People love to give Wes Anderson a lot of crap for having a highly mannered style and "making the same movie over and over", but I always enjoy spending time in the weird "sometime in the 20th century" worlds that he creates.
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:31 AM on March 29, 2023 [10 favorites]
"I have never once heard that word used outside of a discussion about Wes Anderson."
And going by the actual definition of the word ("affectedly or excessively dainty, delicate, cute, or quaint'), it rarely applies. I think it's like when Manuel Noriega was consistently referred to as "Panamanian strongman Manuel Noriega." It sounded good, so people just went along with it.
posted by jonathanhughes at 8:32 AM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
And going by the actual definition of the word ("affectedly or excessively dainty, delicate, cute, or quaint'), it rarely applies. I think it's like when Manuel Noriega was consistently referred to as "Panamanian strongman Manuel Noriega." It sounded good, so people just went along with it.
posted by jonathanhughes at 8:32 AM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
I have never once heard that word used outside of a discussion about Wes Anderson.
Count your blessings.
posted by mykescipark at 8:34 AM on March 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
Count your blessings.
posted by mykescipark at 8:34 AM on March 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
The actors just stand on their marks and evenly say their lines.
Nah, that's just what people do when they're trying to parody Anderson. In the real thing there's always some emotional truth underneath the deadpan direction/delivery. Anderson also knows when to let a world-class actor really let it rip, as in Jeffrey Wright's marvelously intense (yet also restrained) performance as a James Baldwin-esque food writer in The French Dispatch.
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:43 AM on March 29, 2023 [28 favorites]
Nah, that's just what people do when they're trying to parody Anderson. In the real thing there's always some emotional truth underneath the deadpan direction/delivery. Anderson also knows when to let a world-class actor really let it rip, as in Jeffrey Wright's marvelously intense (yet also restrained) performance as a James Baldwin-esque food writer in The French Dispatch.
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:43 AM on March 29, 2023 [28 favorites]
I have never once heard that word used outside of a discussion about Wes Anderson.
As a fan of Belle and Sebastian, I've only ever heard the term in association with heretics mocking them.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:56 AM on March 29, 2023 [27 favorites]
As a fan of Belle and Sebastian, I've only ever heard the term in association with heretics mocking them.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:56 AM on March 29, 2023 [27 favorites]
I'm hoping professional nepo baby Maya Hawke will only have a cameo.
Tom Hanks is making me wish he would play John Steinbeck in a big-screen adaptation of Travels With Charley.
posted by pxe2000 at 9:01 AM on March 29, 2023 [7 favorites]
Tom Hanks is making me wish he would play John Steinbeck in a big-screen adaptation of Travels With Charley.
posted by pxe2000 at 9:01 AM on March 29, 2023 [7 favorites]
It is as if twee had been exposed to an atomic bomb test, grew scales and teeth and climbed to a height of 300 feet, rampaged a southwestern town, ate Bill Murray, and then returned to the twee depths from whence it came.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:03 AM on March 29, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:03 AM on March 29, 2023 [4 favorites]
professional nepo baby
can u not plz
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:06 AM on March 29, 2023 [21 favorites]
can u not plz
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:06 AM on March 29, 2023 [21 favorites]
‘the role of Bill Murray will be played by….Tom Hanks!’
Are we sure it's not the role of Gene Hackman playing Bill Murray playing Tom Hanks?
posted by condour75 at 9:08 AM on March 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
Are we sure it's not the role of Gene Hackman playing Bill Murray playing Tom Hanks?
posted by condour75 at 9:08 AM on March 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
Am I the only one here who proudly identifies as twee? 30 years of beautiful tradition from Belle & Sebastian through, well, Belle & Sebastian?
This is definitely piquing my interest more than French Dispatch did in trailers.
posted by thecaddy at 9:09 AM on March 29, 2023 [6 favorites]
This is definitely piquing my interest more than French Dispatch did in trailers.
posted by thecaddy at 9:09 AM on March 29, 2023 [6 favorites]
It's like he's been making these movies all these years and during a lull in the most twee proverbial combat, Wes pauses and smiles.
Audience: Why are you smiling?
Wes: Because I know something you don't know.
Audience: And what is that?
Wes: I'm not left handed!
And then we get Asteroid City.
posted by tclark at 9:10 AM on March 29, 2023 [9 favorites]
Audience: Why are you smiling?
Wes: Because I know something you don't know.
Audience: And what is that?
Wes: I'm not left handed!
And then we get Asteroid City.
posted by tclark at 9:10 AM on March 29, 2023 [9 favorites]
@Mchelly - Worthwhile: Fanfare
@Capt. Renault - I've watched the trailer a couple times and I don't feel like I know "too much about it." In fact, I think it's almost a perfect trailer in that I'm intrigued but have no idea what's going on. (Seeing the movie will confirm whether that's right or not.)
posted by bbrown at 9:14 AM on March 29, 2023
@Capt. Renault - I've watched the trailer a couple times and I don't feel like I know "too much about it." In fact, I think it's almost a perfect trailer in that I'm intrigued but have no idea what's going on. (Seeing the movie will confirm whether that's right or not.)
posted by bbrown at 9:14 AM on March 29, 2023
My wife and I just yesterday decided that we're going to watch Anderson's movies in order. Unfortunately she doesn't really like Bottle Rocket but once we get past that it'll be smooth sailing. Before we start that project, though, we're going to watch the Godfather trilogy (Godfather, Godfather 2, and The Freshman).
Humblebrag: Randall "Tex" Cobb, who plays Leonard Smalls (the "warthog from Hell") in Raising Arizona grew up about eighty yards from us and was a good friend of my brother through high school and college.
posted by neuron at 9:20 AM on March 29, 2023 [12 favorites]
Humblebrag: Randall "Tex" Cobb, who plays Leonard Smalls (the "warthog from Hell") in Raising Arizona grew up about eighty yards from us and was a good friend of my brother through high school and college.
posted by neuron at 9:20 AM on March 29, 2023 [12 favorites]
(No. I would be proud to be labeled twee, but i don’t think I’m there yet.)
posted by Callisto Prime at 9:21 AM on March 29, 2023
posted by Callisto Prime at 9:21 AM on March 29, 2023
we're going to watch the Godfather trilogy (Godfather, Godfather 2, and The Freshman).
.....I like you.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:25 AM on March 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
.....I like you.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:25 AM on March 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
I've seen every Wes Anderson film. (A old friend of mine had a speaking role in his first film.) For the most part, I do like him. I think Fantastic Mr. Fox is his best work, for reasons that I won't get into here. And this looks very much like his oeuvre: I might be delighted by it; I doubt I'll very much be surprised.
What I don't get is why people rush to defend his films. They're fine. But I have yet to hear anyone defend his films against criticism that actually gets into why they're good. Clever, sure. Good? Like, art-as-insight-into-the-human-condition capital-G Good, or hold-a-mirror-up-to-the-parts-of-us-we'd-rather-not-see good? Maybe. But I honestly couldn't tell you that any of his films are really all that thematically different from any other.
Nobody talks about what he says, only how he says it, and I think that's what kind of irks me about him. You might have your preferences, but at the end of the day, they all kind of feel the same, and for the most part, it's fairly thin gruel. That's okay. Like I said, I do like his work, but it's not exactly challenging stuff. Anderson's films are like Transformers movies for people who read the New Yorker.
posted by nushustu at 9:35 AM on March 29, 2023 [16 favorites]
What I don't get is why people rush to defend his films. They're fine. But I have yet to hear anyone defend his films against criticism that actually gets into why they're good. Clever, sure. Good? Like, art-as-insight-into-the-human-condition capital-G Good, or hold-a-mirror-up-to-the-parts-of-us-we'd-rather-not-see good? Maybe. But I honestly couldn't tell you that any of his films are really all that thematically different from any other.
Nobody talks about what he says, only how he says it, and I think that's what kind of irks me about him. You might have your preferences, but at the end of the day, they all kind of feel the same, and for the most part, it's fairly thin gruel. That's okay. Like I said, I do like his work, but it's not exactly challenging stuff. Anderson's films are like Transformers movies for people who read the New Yorker.
posted by nushustu at 9:35 AM on March 29, 2023 [16 favorites]
I just saw this tweet and I think it belongs here!
posted by cakelite at 9:36 AM on March 29, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by cakelite at 9:36 AM on March 29, 2023 [7 favorites]
John Steinbeck in a big-screen adaptation of Travels With Charley.
Charley is a sass-talking poodle animated by Pixar. His camper is animated and also talks
posted by credulous at 9:36 AM on March 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
Charley is a sass-talking poodle animated by Pixar. His camper is animated and also talks
posted by credulous at 9:36 AM on March 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
Listen - to all the people who 'just don't like it.' I get it, I hear you, I understand - but you're wrong and there's nothing wrong with being wrong, my kids are wrong for not liking tomatoes I'm wrong for despising steak and the novels of a certain literary darling - but I know I'm wrong, I appreciate those things I don't like (except for steak, and that's my hang-up), and I can move on.
Sometime around "The Life Aquatic" it occurred to me that I freaking love Anderson's writing but his movie-making not as much. Because he is a fucking fantastic writer, c.f. the above clip from "French Dispatch" and I kept wanting his story-telling and dialog but as realised by someone ... less... mannered.
"Moonrise Kingdom" might be his most mannered movie yet, I think maybe, but I wanna posit that it's his most trenchant. The two kids dancing on the beach is just fucking sublime. All the other spit and polish and affect of the film, they make that moment so tremendously.
Also, I love his casts. Love the obvious joy they bring to the occasion. The whole endeavour is just the fucking opposite of 99% of what is out there. And that is to be celebrated.
posted by From Bklyn at 9:39 AM on March 29, 2023 [11 favorites]
Sometime around "The Life Aquatic" it occurred to me that I freaking love Anderson's writing but his movie-making not as much. Because he is a fucking fantastic writer, c.f. the above clip from "French Dispatch" and I kept wanting his story-telling and dialog but as realised by someone ... less... mannered.
"Moonrise Kingdom" might be his most mannered movie yet, I think maybe, but I wanna posit that it's his most trenchant. The two kids dancing on the beach is just fucking sublime. All the other spit and polish and affect of the film, they make that moment so tremendously.
Also, I love his casts. Love the obvious joy they bring to the occasion. The whole endeavour is just the fucking opposite of 99% of what is out there. And that is to be celebrated.
posted by From Bklyn at 9:39 AM on March 29, 2023 [11 favorites]
Is there an Oscar for Most Casting?
posted by staggernation at 9:43 AM on March 29, 2023 [15 favorites]
posted by staggernation at 9:43 AM on March 29, 2023 [15 favorites]
I actually love his films, like watched each of them several times and would count a couple as favorites. For me, the plots are captivating; the writing crisp and, yes, clever; the style, yes, discernible; and the soundtracks are wonderful. I could go into detail about each of his works and how they resonated with me but @nushustu complaint is holistic.
For me, it comes down to the visual analog to Bill Murray (as Arthur Howitzer Jr.) in The French Dispatch: "Try to make it sound like you wrote it that way on purpose."
There's a refreshing earnestness and intention—with attendant craftsmanship—to everything he does that is refreshing.
It's even present in his shorts and commercials: posted by bbrown at 9:45 AM on March 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
For me, it comes down to the visual analog to Bill Murray (as Arthur Howitzer Jr.) in The French Dispatch: "Try to make it sound like you wrote it that way on purpose."
There's a refreshing earnestness and intention—with attendant craftsmanship—to everything he does that is refreshing.
It's even present in his shorts and commercials: posted by bbrown at 9:45 AM on March 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
Weird that the video I posted is private, but you'll see it if you click on the "poster" link.
Here's the replacement YouTube URL. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by bbrown at 9:48 AM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
Here's the replacement YouTube URL. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by bbrown at 9:48 AM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
The YouTube links in the OP are now private.
Ninjaed.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:49 AM on March 29, 2023
Ninjaed.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:49 AM on March 29, 2023
I'm hoping professional nepo baby Maya Hawke will only have a cameo.
Considering neither of her parents appear to be involved in this project in any way, I can only interpret this comment as coming from somebody with an axe to grind against Maya Hawke in particular (dunno why; I've only seen her in Stranger Things but she's been fine there) or from somebody who is profoundly ignorant about the actual amount of nepotism in Hollywood.
posted by mstokes650 at 9:51 AM on March 29, 2023 [6 favorites]
Considering neither of her parents appear to be involved in this project in any way, I can only interpret this comment as coming from somebody with an axe to grind against Maya Hawke in particular (dunno why; I've only seen her in Stranger Things but she's been fine there) or from somebody who is profoundly ignorant about the actual amount of nepotism in Hollywood.
posted by mstokes650 at 9:51 AM on March 29, 2023 [6 favorites]
I love a lot of his films, my favorite is probably Moonrise Kingdom. It's just such a beautiful film about growing up, and the fragility of youth. There's a lot going on, but it's such a gem. Excited for this one, it looks very interesting.
posted by Carillon at 9:55 AM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Carillon at 9:55 AM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yeah looks good, although the color grading - especially in the beginning of the trailer is giving me instagram filter vibes - the same filter that fitness influencer-grifter Brittany Dawn used to use.
But that's a little besides the point. Setting up the shot is important to the story telling of Anderson's movies, but the characters and script really drive it forward.
posted by alex_skazat at 9:55 AM on March 29, 2023
But that's a little besides the point. Setting up the shot is important to the story telling of Anderson's movies, but the characters and script really drive it forward.
posted by alex_skazat at 9:55 AM on March 29, 2023
What I don't get is why people rush to defend his films. They're fine. But I have yet to hear anyone defend his films against criticism that actually gets into why they're good. Clever, sure. Good? Like, art-as-insight-into-the-human-condition capital-G Good, or hold-a-mirror-up-to-the-parts-of-us-we'd-rather-not-see good? Maybe. But I honestly couldn't tell you that any of his films are really all that thematically different from any other.Film Crit Hulk begs to differ with you.
posted by aerosolkid at 9:58 AM on March 29, 2023 [4 favorites]
I think I'm going to be ill.
posted by goatdog at 10:11 AM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by goatdog at 10:11 AM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
I am not a Wes Anderson fan for various reasons (don't dislike his work, have actually enjoyed the few I've seen, not an un-fan, just not an actual fan) but what interests me in the trailer is the vaguely Texas vibe of the little town. I feel like while I haven't been to Asteroid City, I've definitely visited some of its RL analogues.
This may interest me enough to get me to see this one.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 10:24 AM on March 29, 2023
This may interest me enough to get me to see this one.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 10:24 AM on March 29, 2023
But I have yet to hear anyone defend his films against criticism that actually gets into why they're good. Clever, sure. Good? Like, art-as-insight-into-the-human-condition capital-G Good, or hold-a-mirror-up-to-the-parts-of-us-we'd-rather-not-see good? Maybe.
Seems like Film Crit Hulk accidentally refuted his own point.
"I don't hear anyone get into why they're good." and then proceeds to show two specific ways that Anderson's films are actually good.
They're clever, they're witty. They're entertaining. They're eye candy. The dialog is snappy. The plots are either bumpy and exciting or brooding and melancholy, and always there's a touch of silliness. There was a time when critics often deployed the word foibles in reviews, and Anderson's movies are chock full of foibles.
The visuals, plots, dialog, and acting are all very highly stylized. Nobody worth listening to has ever complained about Film Noir because they have the exact same attributes. But do something kind of like a photo-negative of film noir stylistically and now Film Crit Hulk insists that nobody gets into why Anderson's films are good.
They're good films, Holk.
posted by tclark at 10:25 AM on March 29, 2023 [9 favorites]
Seems like Film Crit Hulk accidentally refuted his own point.
"I don't hear anyone get into why they're good." and then proceeds to show two specific ways that Anderson's films are actually good.
They're clever, they're witty. They're entertaining. They're eye candy. The dialog is snappy. The plots are either bumpy and exciting or brooding and melancholy, and always there's a touch of silliness. There was a time when critics often deployed the word foibles in reviews, and Anderson's movies are chock full of foibles.
The visuals, plots, dialog, and acting are all very highly stylized. Nobody worth listening to has ever complained about Film Noir because they have the exact same attributes. But do something kind of like a photo-negative of film noir stylistically and now Film Crit Hulk insists that nobody gets into why Anderson's films are good.
They're good films, Holk.
posted by tclark at 10:25 AM on March 29, 2023 [9 favorites]
I think I'm at the point where I only need to see the trailers for Wes Anderson movies. I love them. They feel like finished works unto themselves, smart, funny, poignant, packed with wonder. The movies that follow them can't help but land as somehow more sluggish, constrained.
posted by philip-random at 10:41 AM on March 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 10:41 AM on March 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
Nobody talks about what he says, only how he says it, and I think that's what kind of irks me about him.
“It's not what a movie is about, it's how it is about it.” - Roger Ebert
posted by octothorpe at 10:45 AM on March 29, 2023 [9 favorites]
“It's not what a movie is about, it's how it is about it.” - Roger Ebert
posted by octothorpe at 10:45 AM on March 29, 2023 [9 favorites]
that sure is a lot of white people
Indeed. And at the same time, Jeffrey Wright apparently playing a senior officer in the U.S. military in 1955 is wildly anachronistic and kind of a whitewash of history.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 10:46 AM on March 29, 2023
Indeed. And at the same time, Jeffrey Wright apparently playing a senior officer in the U.S. military in 1955 is wildly anachronistic and kind of a whitewash of history.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 10:46 AM on March 29, 2023
It's interesting that people seem to bounce so hard of of Anderson's style that they are unable to see the quality of what he's doing. That feeling seems to be that he's all surface style and no substance.
I have the same problem with Cronenberg movies. I hate his style and really don't enjoy any of his films (except for The Fly). But I'll acknowledge that he's more than his esthetic and is trying and accomplishing what he's trying to do. The style just isn't for me and that's OK.
posted by Eddie Mars at 10:51 AM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
I have the same problem with Cronenberg movies. I hate his style and really don't enjoy any of his films (except for The Fly). But I'll acknowledge that he's more than his esthetic and is trying and accomplishing what he's trying to do. The style just isn't for me and that's OK.
posted by Eddie Mars at 10:51 AM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
I suppose we can't let a Wes Anderson thread go by without linking to the SNL short The Midnight Coterie of Sinister Intruders
posted by indexy at 10:54 AM on March 29, 2023 [14 favorites]
posted by indexy at 10:54 AM on March 29, 2023 [14 favorites]
We could've.
posted by Grangousier at 10:56 AM on March 29, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Grangousier at 10:56 AM on March 29, 2023 [4 favorites]
This looks like a postcard from the '50s that's been reprinted in a coffee table book from the '70s.
I'm in!
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 10:58 AM on March 29, 2023
I'm in!
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 10:58 AM on March 29, 2023
we're going to watch the Godfather trilogy (Godfather, Godfather 2, and The Freshman)
This is the way.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:59 AM on March 29, 2023 [8 favorites]
This is the way.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:59 AM on March 29, 2023 [8 favorites]
I don't know that I always "get" what Wes Anderson is doing/trying for, but I do enjoy the films, and they do make for some interesting discussion afterwards. On top of that they aren't part of any existing franchise IP, they don't need me to do homework, and the final act will not involve the destruction of a city (though a Wes Anderson take on a Marvel or DC film might be wild), so I'm in. I suspect this will be something that actually gets my wife and I to commit to a date night.
posted by nubs at 11:02 AM on March 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by nubs at 11:02 AM on March 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
That's okay. Like I said, I do like his work, but it's not exactly challenging stuff. Anderson's films are like Transformers movies for people who read the New Yorker.
posted by nushustu at 9:35 AM on March 29
This is how I feel, but you put it in words far better than I could come up with. The only movie I like to rewatch is the Fantastic Mr. Fox, and that's more because of Dahl's story. And I do want to rewatch Darjeeling Express, more for the evocation of Train Travel in India, which is a life I grew up with. I come from an Indian railroading family and this part of the movie was great.
I will watch this because I do enjoy his movies and they are better on a big screen. Two things surprised me. Why no Wilson Brothers? He seems to have cast everyone else from his 'company'. And in the poster I was surprised to see the Producer given fourth billing after Director, Screenplay and Story. Time was the Producer always got top billing and Director's fought to get top billing and succeeded. Is it because Wes himself is a producer that the Producer's Guild is okay with this?
posted by indianbadger1 at 11:04 AM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by nushustu at 9:35 AM on March 29
This is how I feel, but you put it in words far better than I could come up with. The only movie I like to rewatch is the Fantastic Mr. Fox, and that's more because of Dahl's story. And I do want to rewatch Darjeeling Express, more for the evocation of Train Travel in India, which is a life I grew up with. I come from an Indian railroading family and this part of the movie was great.
I will watch this because I do enjoy his movies and they are better on a big screen. Two things surprised me. Why no Wilson Brothers? He seems to have cast everyone else from his 'company'. And in the poster I was surprised to see the Producer given fourth billing after Director, Screenplay and Story. Time was the Producer always got top billing and Director's fought to get top billing and succeeded. Is it because Wes himself is a producer that the Producer's Guild is okay with this?
posted by indianbadger1 at 11:04 AM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
what is more insufferable? the Wes Anderson superfan who will gush and gush and you just have to walk away with soaked shoes.. or the Critic who absolutely *needs* to inform you All the Reasons Wes Anderson is Not Very Good Actually
like what you like! or not! the world is big and time is short
posted by elkevelvet at 11:11 AM on March 29, 2023 [15 favorites]
like what you like! or not! the world is big and time is short
posted by elkevelvet at 11:11 AM on March 29, 2023 [15 favorites]
".... and Jeff Goldblum" .... please please let him play the alien ....
posted by mbo at 11:14 AM on March 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by mbo at 11:14 AM on March 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
I suppose I am the only one who misread the title as "Astro City" and was incredibly excited for Wes Anderson doing a take on Busiek's best comic.
That said, this looks fun, as disappointed as I am.
posted by Hactar at 11:19 AM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
That said, this looks fun, as disappointed as I am.
posted by Hactar at 11:19 AM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
STUDIO : "Seems audiences have gotten tired of the orange and teal color grading we were using for major films for most of the last 20 years."
ANDERSON : "OK hear me out: teal and orange."
*Somewhere, a cash register rings out*
I feel privileged to be here for this bold new teal-forward era in film making.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 11:30 AM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
ANDERSON : "OK hear me out: teal and orange."
*Somewhere, a cash register rings out*
I feel privileged to be here for this bold new teal-forward era in film making.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 11:30 AM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
> Phlegmco(tm): "This looks like a postcard from the '50s that's been reprinted in a coffee table book from the '70s."
I've been semi-convinced that Wes Anderson storyboards his movies using only vintage postcards.
posted by mhum at 11:42 AM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
I've been semi-convinced that Wes Anderson storyboards his movies using only vintage postcards.
posted by mhum at 11:42 AM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
I think some people reflexively defend Wes Anderson because a lot of the criticism (and parody) of his films focuses on superficial aspects -- the CandyLand color scheme, the relentless symetry, the "twee" stuff -- while that stuff really on sets the stage. And as I read the criticism, a lot of it seems to confuse "I don't like this" with "this is bad."
I would challenge anyone who is not a Wes Anderson fan to watch the clip of Jeffrey Wright linked above and disagree with the opinion that it is exemplary filmmaking. The line "self reflection is a vice best conducted in private or not at all" is just wonderful, as is Wright's understated delivery of it. But then the camera pull-out around the one-minute mark, followed by the shift in lighting around 1:18, and then the sudden shift to black and white - come on, that's really good. And I say this as someone who didn't really care for about 75% of The French Dispatch.
For me, I will always appreciate a filmmaker who has a vision that is different from the majority of what is out there. I almost always prefer a risky failure over a boring success. With Wes Anderson, the artifice always makes the emotion that much more surprising. When Ben Stiller says, "I've had a rough year, Dad" at the end of Royal Tenenbaums, it gets me every time.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 11:46 AM on March 29, 2023 [26 favorites]
I would challenge anyone who is not a Wes Anderson fan to watch the clip of Jeffrey Wright linked above and disagree with the opinion that it is exemplary filmmaking. The line "self reflection is a vice best conducted in private or not at all" is just wonderful, as is Wright's understated delivery of it. But then the camera pull-out around the one-minute mark, followed by the shift in lighting around 1:18, and then the sudden shift to black and white - come on, that's really good. And I say this as someone who didn't really care for about 75% of The French Dispatch.
For me, I will always appreciate a filmmaker who has a vision that is different from the majority of what is out there. I almost always prefer a risky failure over a boring success. With Wes Anderson, the artifice always makes the emotion that much more surprising. When Ben Stiller says, "I've had a rough year, Dad" at the end of Royal Tenenbaums, it gets me every time.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 11:46 AM on March 29, 2023 [26 favorites]
I always think I should watch Wes Anderson movies, but then I don't. This one seems so pretty, though, that it leaves me thinking that I should again.
posted by jacquilynne at 11:48 AM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by jacquilynne at 11:48 AM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
I don't identify as twee but I'm a proud Whimsicalpalian and this is close enough
posted by The otter lady at 12:04 PM on March 29, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by The otter lady at 12:04 PM on March 29, 2023 [8 favorites]
@Ben Trismegistus - I challenge anyone to read the Film Crit Hulk review linked above and not come to the same conclusion. I have seen TFD half a dozen times and read the script but have a sublimely-richer appreciation after having read that review. Wow—thank you, @aersolkid for sharing it.
@mhum - The storyboard artist for Asteroid City is on Twitter. I'm hoping he opens up about things once the movie's out. (I suspect he's quiet due to the experience of set decorator Sonia Nolla's experience earlier this month.)
posted by bbrown at 12:05 PM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
@mhum - The storyboard artist for Asteroid City is on Twitter. I'm hoping he opens up about things once the movie's out. (I suspect he's quiet due to the experience of set decorator Sonia Nolla's experience earlier this month.)
posted by bbrown at 12:05 PM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
Mod note: fixed the url in the main post, carry on
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:09 PM on March 29, 2023
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:09 PM on March 29, 2023
I would go so far to say that "The Royal Tenenbaums" is a really excellent movie, full stop.
A story about a family, all of whom are neurotic in their own way, shot upon the background of a decaying city that mirrors the family's dilapidated state - the full bull-run of a cast with Gene Hackman and Angelica Huston JUST TO START the show.
Pathos, melancholy, humor, love, obsession, family. Great cinematography and a lot of love for all of the characters.
IMHO this will be the one of his films that will prove to be evergreen.
posted by djseafood at 12:19 PM on March 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
A story about a family, all of whom are neurotic in their own way, shot upon the background of a decaying city that mirrors the family's dilapidated state - the full bull-run of a cast with Gene Hackman and Angelica Huston JUST TO START the show.
Pathos, melancholy, humor, love, obsession, family. Great cinematography and a lot of love for all of the characters.
IMHO this will be the one of his films that will prove to be evergreen.
posted by djseafood at 12:19 PM on March 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
that sure is a lot of white people
There's a lot of room for film critics to get deep into how he deals with race: It is pretty much the motif of every film he's made — except for the overtly racist one and perhaps the other one. Is there a Wes Anderson film that doesn't use non-white people as tokens? Speaking as someone who loved Rushmore and The Royal Tenenbaums.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:20 PM on March 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
There's a lot of room for film critics to get deep into how he deals with race: It is pretty much the motif of every film he's made — except for the overtly racist one and perhaps the other one. Is there a Wes Anderson film that doesn't use non-white people as tokens? Speaking as someone who loved Rushmore and The Royal Tenenbaums.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:20 PM on March 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
A story about a family, all of whom are neurotic in their own way, shot upon the background of a decaying city that mirrors the family's dilapidated state - the full bull-run of a cast with Gene Hackman and Angelica Huston JUST TO START the show.
Pathos, melancholy, humor, love, obsession, family. Great cinematography and a lot of love for all of the characters.
I've also said that he has a talent for getting something special out of actors. Aside from the Ben Stiller moment I mentioned above, Royal Tenenbaums is just about the only movie in which I find Gwyneth Paltrow compelling.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 12:33 PM on March 29, 2023 [4 favorites]
Pathos, melancholy, humor, love, obsession, family. Great cinematography and a lot of love for all of the characters.
I've also said that he has a talent for getting something special out of actors. Aside from the Ben Stiller moment I mentioned above, Royal Tenenbaums is just about the only movie in which I find Gwyneth Paltrow compelling.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 12:33 PM on March 29, 2023 [4 favorites]
> teal and orange
Oh you are so incorrect! This film is graded in peach and cyan. Mark the difference!
posted by seanmpuckett at 12:36 PM on March 29, 2023 [6 favorites]
Oh you are so incorrect! This film is graded in peach and cyan. Mark the difference!
posted by seanmpuckett at 12:36 PM on March 29, 2023 [6 favorites]
...I'm going to explicitly call for the commentariat to attempt a Challenge Mode for the discussion by expressing something about Anderson's style without using the word "twee".
posted by Ipsifendus
"Miranda July-esque, but on a studio-size budget"
miranda july fan here yes i watched the future the whole damn way through twice and why is it so dusty in here all of a sudden
posted by zaixfeep at 12:40 PM on March 29, 2023
posted by Ipsifendus
"Miranda July-esque, but on a studio-size budget"
miranda july fan here yes i watched the future the whole damn way through twice and why is it so dusty in here all of a sudden
posted by zaixfeep at 12:40 PM on March 29, 2023
As I watch that trailer, I...I think I smell gin. Like, I can almost taste it.
posted by wenestvedt at 1:01 PM on March 29, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by wenestvedt at 1:01 PM on March 29, 2023 [4 favorites]
".... and Jeff Goldblum" .... please please let him play the alien ....
His costume from Thor: Love and Thunder would be on brand.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:57 PM on March 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
His costume from Thor: Love and Thunder would be on brand.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:57 PM on March 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
I’m both pleased and unsurprised to see that a Wes Anderson discussion has brought out the Belle and Sebastian fans, battle cardigans on, ready to defend twee.
posted by betweenthebars at 1:59 PM on March 29, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by betweenthebars at 1:59 PM on March 29, 2023 [8 favorites]
World War Twee
it has the most amazing cast
posted by kokaku at 2:14 PM on March 29, 2023 [7 favorites]
it has the most amazing cast
posted by kokaku at 2:14 PM on March 29, 2023 [7 favorites]
I suppose we can't let a Wes Anderson thread go by without linking to the SNL short The Midnight Coterie of Sinister Intruders
This was wonderful. Not sure how I missed it. Thanks!
posted by dobbs at 3:01 PM on March 29, 2023
This was wonderful. Not sure how I missed it. Thanks!
posted by dobbs at 3:01 PM on March 29, 2023
Can't help thinking it sounds like Wes Anderson's adaptation of Hunter x Hunter. The Meteor City flashback from last year already has a bit of a Wes Anderson-ish quality, with precocious children bringing everyone together through movie magic.
Personally though I have been waiting for Wes Anderson's adaptation of Metal Gear Solid (co-written with and starring Owen Wilson as Raiden).
posted by grobstein at 4:15 PM on March 29, 2023
Personally though I have been waiting for Wes Anderson's adaptation of Metal Gear Solid (co-written with and starring Owen Wilson as Raiden).
posted by grobstein at 4:15 PM on March 29, 2023
Focus Features added some more pictures to the movie site, including one indicating that Bob Balaban will be in it. (Phew!)
posted by bbrown at 4:56 PM on March 29, 2023
posted by bbrown at 4:56 PM on March 29, 2023
Can't help thinking it sounds like Wes Anderson's adaptation of Hunter x Hunter. The Meteor City flashback from last year already has a bit of a Wes Anderson-ish quality, with precocious children bringing everyone together through movie magic.
Meteor City is apparently named after the real life Meteor City, AZ:
... Which sounds like it could also be the inspiration for "Asteroid City, Farm Route 6, Mile 75."
posted by grobstein at 5:18 PM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
Meteor City is apparently named after the real life Meteor City, AZ:
Meteor City was a historic trading post located on historic Route 66 west of the town of Unincorporated Winslow situated in Coconino County, Arizona.[2] Accessing it from interstate 40 (I-40), you would exit at Mile-marker / Exit 239 (Meteor City Road) coming from the east or west.
... Which sounds like it could also be the inspiration for "Asteroid City, Farm Route 6, Mile 75."
posted by grobstein at 5:18 PM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm hoping professional nepo baby Maya Hawke will only have a cameo.
extremely funny comment to make about a movie featuring Jason Schwartzman
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 6:51 PM on March 29, 2023 [9 favorites]
extremely funny comment to make about a movie featuring Jason Schwartzman
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 6:51 PM on March 29, 2023 [9 favorites]
Besides good will or whatever, it seems like these are extremely easy rolls.
I think that minimizes the work of acting, but more to the point, I've read that Wes Anderson creates a wonderful environment on set. He apparently requires the whole cast and crew to stay together on location, often renting out some place they all live while filming. In the evening they gather for big dinners and conversation. It's apparently this atmosphere, and his respect for everyone involved in the process, that make actors want to work with him.
posted by Miko at 7:04 PM on March 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
I think that minimizes the work of acting, but more to the point, I've read that Wes Anderson creates a wonderful environment on set. He apparently requires the whole cast and crew to stay together on location, often renting out some place they all live while filming. In the evening they gather for big dinners and conversation. It's apparently this atmosphere, and his respect for everyone involved in the process, that make actors want to work with him.
posted by Miko at 7:04 PM on March 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
Wes Anderson peaked with The Royal Tenenbaums and ever since then it’s a been a slow accretion of style over substance. It’s like watching a real person become a series of cliche liberal tics from about the year 2003.
posted by rhymedirective at 7:10 PM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by rhymedirective at 7:10 PM on March 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
Okay, so apparently Bill Murray was originally cast in this but he caught covid right before filming, so Steve Carell stepped in for him.
posted by mochapickle at 7:16 PM on March 29, 2023
posted by mochapickle at 7:16 PM on March 29, 2023
Looking forward to this. People critique Wes Anderson for being… Anderson-y, a lot, with the implication that he’s perhaps stale or “been there done that.” But my perception is that he grows and tries new things with each film, he’s always pushing himself to experiment with his art. The French Dispatch didn’t totally land for me but I found it pretty delightful even when it missed the mark, and appreciated Wes experimenting with the still life elements, short story elements, etc. Looking forward to what he tries with this one.
Jeffrey Wright was a fantastic addition to the rotating cast of regulars and I’m so pleased to see him back. His part in French Disparch was exemplary. It’s really fun to see an actor show up in an Anderson film for the first time and it just … clicks, like that.
posted by Emily's Fist at 9:37 PM on March 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
Jeffrey Wright was a fantastic addition to the rotating cast of regulars and I’m so pleased to see him back. His part in French Disparch was exemplary. It’s really fun to see an actor show up in an Anderson film for the first time and it just … clicks, like that.
posted by Emily's Fist at 9:37 PM on March 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
And going by the actual definition of the word ("affectedly or excessively dainty, delicate, cute, or quaint'), it rarely applies.
I think you’re right, but the reason it sticks is, I think, that “affectedly or excessively” is so exactly what he does. It’s not always the same thing or set of things, but the sheer amount of careful, precious, almost fussbudgety stylistic tics and formalism in his films is at times overwhelming. For me it either works perfectly, like a magic trick where the stylization conjures a an alternate, ludicrous but somehow consistent and coherent world into being, or collapses under its own weight, where the artifice seems somehow suddenly cheap and cloying. More than anything Anderson seems most like a patissier, someone just wholly dedicated to the artificial, the meticulously crafted, the precise, where the sum total of 3 or 4 complicated and overwrought things ends up being finely balanced and satisfying.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 10:19 PM on March 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think you’re right, but the reason it sticks is, I think, that “affectedly or excessively” is so exactly what he does. It’s not always the same thing or set of things, but the sheer amount of careful, precious, almost fussbudgety stylistic tics and formalism in his films is at times overwhelming. For me it either works perfectly, like a magic trick where the stylization conjures a an alternate, ludicrous but somehow consistent and coherent world into being, or collapses under its own weight, where the artifice seems somehow suddenly cheap and cloying. More than anything Anderson seems most like a patissier, someone just wholly dedicated to the artificial, the meticulously crafted, the precise, where the sum total of 3 or 4 complicated and overwrought things ends up being finely balanced and satisfying.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 10:19 PM on March 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
I recently was lucky enough to catch a showing of Histoire(s) du cinéma, the very long and very French Jean-Luc Godard documentary series that both is and isn't about what movies are, what society is, being alive, etc., in that way that feels so uncannily like a parody of pretentious French filmmaking that it's weird that the whole thing actually wanted to make a point.
First of all, I'd note that Wes Anderson gets criticized for a weirdly similar set of things that Godard does: semblances of meaning rather than actual meaning, stylistic flourishes that don't connect to some deeper narrative or expressive tissue, and an overall bombastic approach to movies that detractors think delude or pressure viewers into seeing the emperor's clothes, so to speak. So that's interesting, kinda.
But one particular bit in Histoire(s) struck me so hard that I've been chewing on it ever since. Godard talks about the idea of "substance" in movies, and the question of what makes them human. Specifically, he focuses on what's needed to transform thought—in the sense of lived experience, which is powerfully felt but lacks an inherent expression—into form, where it can be perceived and recognized and even experienced in kind. And his conclusion, more or less, is that the thing which fundamentally forms thought is style: literally, the means with which we devise expression. (He concludes by asking "What is style, if not man?")
More broadly, the central argument of Histoire(s) is that we're fundamentally bad, as a species, at comprehending suffering, particularly atrocity. Statistics alone don't do the trick; isolating one particular story of suffering among many, on the other hand, can have a reductive effect, because our personal identification with one individual's story collapses our sense of the whole down to something that feels more like staring in a mirror. The lived experience of atrocity is either inaccessible, because the people who have lived it are now dead, or it eventually dies out, or memory simply fades. Godard argues that only way to do justice to the reality of being human, basically, hinges on style: the "unreal" thing that bridges our shadow of a recollection with the reality which cast that shadow in the first place. Humanity, in the arts, isn't simply history or recall—it's the way we struggle with the impossibility of recreating something that can't be recreated, in a way where the impossibility of expressing it becomes a part of the struggle and the tragedy too.
I haven't thought about Wes Anderson much since seeing that—I'm not even a huge Wes Anderson guy in general—but I think that Histoire(s) helps me see what he's going for, and why he makes movies the way that he does. His films are like the antithesis of melodrama: Guy Maddin famously said that melodrama makes for effective art because it captures emotional truth rather than surface reality, and Anderson's entire schtick is... almost the exact opposite of that. I'm always haunted, for example, by that moment in The Royal Tenenbaums where Richie looks in the mirror and says, not-quite-dispassionately, that he's going to kill himself tomorrow, and then immediately slits his wrists. There's something so distressing, not only about how quietly he does it, but about how he looks at himself in the mirror and tells himself he'll do it tomorrow, as if trying to see what it sounds like to say it, or to comprehend what he's talking about doing. It's like he's writing the story of himself, and testing out whether this thing he's saying ought to be the final chapter. And the more quietly he does everything, the more clearly it reveals this monumental pain he's living in.
I think it's safe to say that the bulk of popular cinema relies on personal identification, melodrama or no, to move audiences. A character is put in a situation; the situation makes them feel; the film expresses their feeling; we move along with it. Or a thing happens, and the tone of the movie—the lighting, the score—tells us that this is a Dark moment or a Hopeful one or, y'know, whatever. But Anderson operates at a remove. It's not just the manneredness of his characters, or even the meticulousness of his compositions: it's the way that there's just so much specificity, so many Russian dolls' worth of nuance, like these ornate baroque structures of Definition that have a way of calcifying around the people who are caught up in them. (And oftentimes the people in question are manufacturing all of that ornateness because they're trying to push away from whatever discomfort they're feeling—not even as a mask so much as a distraction from everything else.)
The style almost works as counterpoint to the actual feeling. And the "whimsy" is always this weird mix: one half is childishness and immaturity, and the other half is an oversophistication, like somebody trying too hard to seem adult. It's like a child putting on a suit, going too far, getting too slick, in a way that betrays the messiness and uncertainty of the kid within.
I haven't always clicked with his movies, but it definitely always feels like each movie is about something new. There are recurring elements (childlike adults, children trying too hard to seem adult), but those aren't the themes. And it feels, to me, like the thing Anderson keeps coming back to is the way that some things are so terrifying or painful or uncertain that the only way we can handle them is by approaching them so incredibly gingerly, making a whole huge affect out of Unconcernedness, creating so many layers of manner and "interest" that we can just sorta glance briefly off the one thing that matters, at a whisper of a tangent. The more important a thing is, the more his characters bury themselves in layers, until the elaborate unemotional Style of it all becomes the single most obvious pointer that things are intensely emotional here more than anywhere else.
The "twee"-ness is always a confession. Sometimes, it's a confession in the sense of trying too hard to make something matter; other times, it's a confession in the sense of trying too hard to make something seem meaningless. Anxieties manifest as neuroses or compulsions. Insecurities manifest as attempts at prestige. Adults react to shapeless, childish feelings by doubling down on their adult-ness. Children attempt to articulate the things that mean the most to them by getting performatively "grown up" about them.
There's always such a compulsive framing, too: the Futura labels on everything, the voice-overs, the symmetrical shots... even the way his music calls attention to itself, his choices a little too specific to fade readily into the background. It's all such a meticulous construct. It's like, I dunno, a teenager writing emo poetry whose only real message is Just So You Know, I'm Feeling Real Emotional Right Now. Or someone putting together a playlist for the gym they're going to after getting dumped, where both the gym and the playlist are parts of an attempt to create a narrative. Everything, everything, is intentional—not just for Anderson but for his characters. They compulsively create themselves and they are compulsively created. And the more all that happens, the more starkly everybody's discomfort and uncertainty and messiness stands out by contrast—because the more artificial the rest of it is, the more the humans hiding their humanity smooshes against us like they're crammed into a claustrophobically tight space with everybody else, ourselves included.
Going back to Godard, one of the things Histoire(s) comes back to quite a lot is that there's a difference between movies which tell you how to feel, including movies which induce you into feeling, and movies which themselves throw you into a lived experience of sorts, where you have to do some thinking and feeling yourself. It's like the difference between being told a thought, which you can then choose to agree with or even parrot, and being made to think. So when he says "style," he doesn't just mean choices of colors or angles or what-have-you: it isn't style unless it's specifically trying to articulate something formless, something which feels iconic but doesn't have an easily-parsable meaning. It's that combination—"this is full of emotion and significance, but I'll be damned if I know what those emotions and significances are"—that defines style. Because that's where you're undergoing the human experience of intensely feeling a wordless thing, having an experience and not quite being able to describe what that experience is.
That's why, I think, it's so interesting that the general consensus on Anderson is "everything is Extremely Loud And Articulated, except for his actors, who are The Opposite Of That." It's like all their emotion drains away into their surroundings, taking on lurid and bizarre forms... and then they say something intensely personal, something that ought to have great feeling behind it, and not only do they say it in a near-monotone, but they say it in such an archaic way that it becomes hard to take it seriously. Only it is serious, and they are serious, and that seriousness doesn't mean they're any better at expressing themselves in a ludicrously ineffective way.
They can't express themselves, even when they express themselves. They're wordless up until they find an articulation, but that articulation is awkward and off-putting. Their attempts at misdirection are too clumsy to misdirect. Their attempts to say things never say the right things, which is why they don't attempt it in the first place.
But the movies say what they want to say. I mean, they don't say it, they don't even try to say it... but they say it just the same, you know? And they go about not-saying the thing they're saying so meticulously, so skillfully, and so damn charmingly. I think that Anderson tells pretty universal stories, tells them in excessively particular ways, and uses that particularity to get at what he finds interesting, which you could reduce down to "the difficulty of expressing anything or connecting to anybody," only that's not quite it either. Because the thing he's saying isn't something that easily translates to language: you can only express it, really, in a particular style, which is why he does just that.
And I think there's maybe a four-way divide in how people react to him: three positive, one negative. Some people watch his movies like they'd watch any other, feel for the characters, get emotionally invested, and like the story. Some people don't necessarily connect with his work emotionally, but find it charming or whimsical or playful or clever, and that's enough for them to be entertained. Some people get caught up on how the latter buries the former, and feel like the "story" he's telling seems shallow or uninteresting, with the cleverness as an attempt to distract from (or excuse) the childishness of his drama or his plots. And for some people, it all comes together, like a hall of mirrors that suddenly genuinely opens onto infinity.
Something about him touches non-obviously on what I think is a pretty universal human experience, and I think that's pretty neat. Neater because he touches on it while also putting on a hell of a show. That mix of ornateness and tenderness is so weird and cool and rare; I get why it doesn't work for a lot of people, and I'm not obsessive about it myself, but I do think he's an extraordinarily talented artist who repeats himself far less than he gets shit for.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 12:52 PM on March 30, 2023 [21 favorites]
First of all, I'd note that Wes Anderson gets criticized for a weirdly similar set of things that Godard does: semblances of meaning rather than actual meaning, stylistic flourishes that don't connect to some deeper narrative or expressive tissue, and an overall bombastic approach to movies that detractors think delude or pressure viewers into seeing the emperor's clothes, so to speak. So that's interesting, kinda.
But one particular bit in Histoire(s) struck me so hard that I've been chewing on it ever since. Godard talks about the idea of "substance" in movies, and the question of what makes them human. Specifically, he focuses on what's needed to transform thought—in the sense of lived experience, which is powerfully felt but lacks an inherent expression—into form, where it can be perceived and recognized and even experienced in kind. And his conclusion, more or less, is that the thing which fundamentally forms thought is style: literally, the means with which we devise expression. (He concludes by asking "What is style, if not man?")
More broadly, the central argument of Histoire(s) is that we're fundamentally bad, as a species, at comprehending suffering, particularly atrocity. Statistics alone don't do the trick; isolating one particular story of suffering among many, on the other hand, can have a reductive effect, because our personal identification with one individual's story collapses our sense of the whole down to something that feels more like staring in a mirror. The lived experience of atrocity is either inaccessible, because the people who have lived it are now dead, or it eventually dies out, or memory simply fades. Godard argues that only way to do justice to the reality of being human, basically, hinges on style: the "unreal" thing that bridges our shadow of a recollection with the reality which cast that shadow in the first place. Humanity, in the arts, isn't simply history or recall—it's the way we struggle with the impossibility of recreating something that can't be recreated, in a way where the impossibility of expressing it becomes a part of the struggle and the tragedy too.
I haven't thought about Wes Anderson much since seeing that—I'm not even a huge Wes Anderson guy in general—but I think that Histoire(s) helps me see what he's going for, and why he makes movies the way that he does. His films are like the antithesis of melodrama: Guy Maddin famously said that melodrama makes for effective art because it captures emotional truth rather than surface reality, and Anderson's entire schtick is... almost the exact opposite of that. I'm always haunted, for example, by that moment in The Royal Tenenbaums where Richie looks in the mirror and says, not-quite-dispassionately, that he's going to kill himself tomorrow, and then immediately slits his wrists. There's something so distressing, not only about how quietly he does it, but about how he looks at himself in the mirror and tells himself he'll do it tomorrow, as if trying to see what it sounds like to say it, or to comprehend what he's talking about doing. It's like he's writing the story of himself, and testing out whether this thing he's saying ought to be the final chapter. And the more quietly he does everything, the more clearly it reveals this monumental pain he's living in.
I think it's safe to say that the bulk of popular cinema relies on personal identification, melodrama or no, to move audiences. A character is put in a situation; the situation makes them feel; the film expresses their feeling; we move along with it. Or a thing happens, and the tone of the movie—the lighting, the score—tells us that this is a Dark moment or a Hopeful one or, y'know, whatever. But Anderson operates at a remove. It's not just the manneredness of his characters, or even the meticulousness of his compositions: it's the way that there's just so much specificity, so many Russian dolls' worth of nuance, like these ornate baroque structures of Definition that have a way of calcifying around the people who are caught up in them. (And oftentimes the people in question are manufacturing all of that ornateness because they're trying to push away from whatever discomfort they're feeling—not even as a mask so much as a distraction from everything else.)
The style almost works as counterpoint to the actual feeling. And the "whimsy" is always this weird mix: one half is childishness and immaturity, and the other half is an oversophistication, like somebody trying too hard to seem adult. It's like a child putting on a suit, going too far, getting too slick, in a way that betrays the messiness and uncertainty of the kid within.
I haven't always clicked with his movies, but it definitely always feels like each movie is about something new. There are recurring elements (childlike adults, children trying too hard to seem adult), but those aren't the themes. And it feels, to me, like the thing Anderson keeps coming back to is the way that some things are so terrifying or painful or uncertain that the only way we can handle them is by approaching them so incredibly gingerly, making a whole huge affect out of Unconcernedness, creating so many layers of manner and "interest" that we can just sorta glance briefly off the one thing that matters, at a whisper of a tangent. The more important a thing is, the more his characters bury themselves in layers, until the elaborate unemotional Style of it all becomes the single most obvious pointer that things are intensely emotional here more than anywhere else.
The "twee"-ness is always a confession. Sometimes, it's a confession in the sense of trying too hard to make something matter; other times, it's a confession in the sense of trying too hard to make something seem meaningless. Anxieties manifest as neuroses or compulsions. Insecurities manifest as attempts at prestige. Adults react to shapeless, childish feelings by doubling down on their adult-ness. Children attempt to articulate the things that mean the most to them by getting performatively "grown up" about them.
There's always such a compulsive framing, too: the Futura labels on everything, the voice-overs, the symmetrical shots... even the way his music calls attention to itself, his choices a little too specific to fade readily into the background. It's all such a meticulous construct. It's like, I dunno, a teenager writing emo poetry whose only real message is Just So You Know, I'm Feeling Real Emotional Right Now. Or someone putting together a playlist for the gym they're going to after getting dumped, where both the gym and the playlist are parts of an attempt to create a narrative. Everything, everything, is intentional—not just for Anderson but for his characters. They compulsively create themselves and they are compulsively created. And the more all that happens, the more starkly everybody's discomfort and uncertainty and messiness stands out by contrast—because the more artificial the rest of it is, the more the humans hiding their humanity smooshes against us like they're crammed into a claustrophobically tight space with everybody else, ourselves included.
Going back to Godard, one of the things Histoire(s) comes back to quite a lot is that there's a difference between movies which tell you how to feel, including movies which induce you into feeling, and movies which themselves throw you into a lived experience of sorts, where you have to do some thinking and feeling yourself. It's like the difference between being told a thought, which you can then choose to agree with or even parrot, and being made to think. So when he says "style," he doesn't just mean choices of colors or angles or what-have-you: it isn't style unless it's specifically trying to articulate something formless, something which feels iconic but doesn't have an easily-parsable meaning. It's that combination—"this is full of emotion and significance, but I'll be damned if I know what those emotions and significances are"—that defines style. Because that's where you're undergoing the human experience of intensely feeling a wordless thing, having an experience and not quite being able to describe what that experience is.
That's why, I think, it's so interesting that the general consensus on Anderson is "everything is Extremely Loud And Articulated, except for his actors, who are The Opposite Of That." It's like all their emotion drains away into their surroundings, taking on lurid and bizarre forms... and then they say something intensely personal, something that ought to have great feeling behind it, and not only do they say it in a near-monotone, but they say it in such an archaic way that it becomes hard to take it seriously. Only it is serious, and they are serious, and that seriousness doesn't mean they're any better at expressing themselves in a ludicrously ineffective way.
They can't express themselves, even when they express themselves. They're wordless up until they find an articulation, but that articulation is awkward and off-putting. Their attempts at misdirection are too clumsy to misdirect. Their attempts to say things never say the right things, which is why they don't attempt it in the first place.
But the movies say what they want to say. I mean, they don't say it, they don't even try to say it... but they say it just the same, you know? And they go about not-saying the thing they're saying so meticulously, so skillfully, and so damn charmingly. I think that Anderson tells pretty universal stories, tells them in excessively particular ways, and uses that particularity to get at what he finds interesting, which you could reduce down to "the difficulty of expressing anything or connecting to anybody," only that's not quite it either. Because the thing he's saying isn't something that easily translates to language: you can only express it, really, in a particular style, which is why he does just that.
And I think there's maybe a four-way divide in how people react to him: three positive, one negative. Some people watch his movies like they'd watch any other, feel for the characters, get emotionally invested, and like the story. Some people don't necessarily connect with his work emotionally, but find it charming or whimsical or playful or clever, and that's enough for them to be entertained. Some people get caught up on how the latter buries the former, and feel like the "story" he's telling seems shallow or uninteresting, with the cleverness as an attempt to distract from (or excuse) the childishness of his drama or his plots. And for some people, it all comes together, like a hall of mirrors that suddenly genuinely opens onto infinity.
Something about him touches non-obviously on what I think is a pretty universal human experience, and I think that's pretty neat. Neater because he touches on it while also putting on a hell of a show. That mix of ornateness and tenderness is so weird and cool and rare; I get why it doesn't work for a lot of people, and I'm not obsessive about it myself, but I do think he's an extraordinarily talented artist who repeats himself far less than he gets shit for.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 12:52 PM on March 30, 2023 [21 favorites]
Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted, my one favorite is not enough. Well done.
posted by Glinn at 4:09 PM on March 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Glinn at 4:09 PM on March 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
Why wasn’t Paddington Bear in the trailer?
posted by fallingbadgers at 10:13 PM on March 30, 2023
posted by fallingbadgers at 10:13 PM on March 30, 2023
If you love Wes Anderson - continue on! Enjoy! All I'm saying is that Guillermo del Toro makes the best Wes Anderson movies (for people who like fucking and politics).
posted by latkes at 12:14 PM on March 31, 2023
posted by latkes at 12:14 PM on March 31, 2023
I dunno, latkes, Pacific Rim was fun and all but I'd give a kidney to see Wes Anderson's take on a mecha movie.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 10:55 AM on April 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 10:55 AM on April 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'd give a kidney
There are better, smarter ways to make this point. Thanks.
posted by mochapickle at 11:24 AM on April 1, 2023
There are better, smarter ways to make this point. Thanks.
posted by mochapickle at 11:24 AM on April 1, 2023
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Trailer looks especially Wes-y. This is good.
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:12 AM on March 29, 2023 [6 favorites]