Flipping the surveillance state

April 6, 2023 7:57 AM

After the Los Angeles Police Department voluntarily turned over 9300 police officers' photos, names, ranks and badge numbers in response to a public records request, it is now suing a reporter and the Stop LAPD Spying Coalition to return these materials, over a concern for undercover officers' privacy.

Hamid Khan of the Stop LAPD Spying Coalition pushed back against the LAPD demand. “We’re not publishing their home addresses, we’re not publishing things that are outside their role as police officers,” he said.

The reporter Ben Camacho's tweet on the lawsuit.

Di Barbadillo of the National Lawyers Guild LA says she's had LAPD officers point their guns directly in her face, and then cover their badges when she asked for their names.

The police dataset being demanded back has by now already gained wide dissemination via archive.org and torrent sites.

posted by splitpeasoup (24 comments total)

If you haven't done anything wrong, you haven't got anything to hide, tho?
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:27 AM on April 6, 2023 [35 favorites]

I have said it before and I will say it again: Police uniforms should look like sports jerseys, with a large print name and number on the front and back.
posted by fings at 8:28 AM on April 6, 2023 [67 favorites]

That new barn door should keep the horses in nicely.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:32 AM on April 6, 2023 [6 favorites]

Remember, if you make a mistake, it's not a defense in a court of law.

If a cop makes a mistake, well, you certainly can't expect them to be perfect.
posted by Etrigan at 8:41 AM on April 6, 2023 [29 favorites]

If cops don't want to be at risk in undercover operations, stop fucking doing them.
posted by GoblinHoney at 8:42 AM on April 6, 2023 [8 favorites]

I have said it before and I will say it again: Police uniforms should look like sports jerseys, with a large print name and number on the front and back.

I really like this idea. I also wish that US policing would change its color scheme to more like what they do in the UK, where police often wear high-viz and police cars have patchwork blue and high-viz yellow paint, rather than exclusively trying to dress like special forces soldiers.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:56 AM on April 6, 2023 [45 favorites]

Lol, lmao. Cops know all too well what you can do with this kind of PII access power.
posted by potrzebie at 9:10 AM on April 6, 2023 [1 favorite]

San Francisco has a police accountability database, but it doesn't have officer photos. CopMonitor is run by the San Francisco Public Defender's Office.
posted by larrybob at 9:37 AM on April 6, 2023 [1 favorite]

On the first hand, there is a chance that this may put some undercover cops at risk, although they should be able to be pulled out relatively quickly, given that they are not actually in another country working as a deep mole. On the second hand, does anyone think that by this time tomorrow all of the cartels and such that operate in LA won't have a copy of the database, thus making the takedown of this irrelevant for undercover cops? On the third hand (I grew that one specially for you Trillian, you know that. Took me six months but it was worth every minute.) this is really about cops at protests hiding their identity and keeping people from using that information in a court of law.

I feel for the undercover operations that are ended prematurely. I also celebrate for the people who are not going to be raided because of false information and end up with a broken door and dead dog at best.

The biggest issue I have with this is that they only got the LAPD information, and not the LASD (LA county sheriff's department) as well. Given that there are 18 honest to god gangs operating from within the LASD, this would have been a godsend for people trying to avoid organized crime wearing a badge.
posted by Hactar at 9:40 AM on April 6, 2023 [15 favorites]

Isn't this an FOIA request? How can you sue for that?
posted by tiny frying pan at 10:05 AM on April 6, 2023 [6 favorites]

They're suing less to get the data returned (which is now impossible) and more to intimidate anyone thinking of making similar requests in the future... attempt ANY oversight of us and we'll crush you with lawsuits and increased police scrutiny in your personal life.
posted by lefty lucky cat at 10:09 AM on April 6, 2023 [13 favorites]

But...isn't that crazy weirdly illegal on its face? I've never heard of suing after a FOIA request.
posted by tiny frying pan at 10:12 AM on April 6, 2023 [8 favorites]

If the cops want to justify their use of undercover work, they have to build up public trust that they don't abuse it. Currently it's clear that they DO abuse their power. Violent gangs suck, but allowing police to be just one more competing violent gang is not the answer.
posted by rikschell at 10:17 AM on April 6, 2023 [13 favorites]

SLAAPs seem to be just … like that, tiny frying pan.
posted by clew at 11:14 AM on April 6, 2023 [2 favorites]

Ok, guess I'm the insane one for asking the question, thanks.
posted by tiny frying pan at 11:29 AM on April 6, 2023

You can't just pull data off the internet. They're not like accidentally fired bullets.

/s
posted by meowzilla at 11:39 AM on April 6, 2023 [5 favorites]

I also wish that US policing would change its color scheme to more like what they do in the UK

While we're at it we should take their guns! I love it when they yell "armed police!" on British cop shows. Then you know shit just got real.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:43 AM on April 6, 2023 [5 favorites]

While we're at it, let's extend the sports parallel to having some kind of red card system as well.
posted by flabdablet at 11:48 AM on April 6, 2023 [1 favorite]

I don’t think we’re insane, just outnumbered. Maybe not even that!

Certainly outspent.
posted by clew at 12:14 PM on April 6, 2023 [1 favorite]

Crushed beneath people basically saying, "duh" to reasonable questions.
posted by tiny frying pan at 12:34 PM on April 6, 2023

I think everybody agrees with you that it's ridiculous, what do you want?
posted by Reverend John at 12:56 PM on April 6, 2023

The answer basically is, people can file just about any lawsuit they want. Unless it's a truly obvious abuse of the court system (and even then sometimes), it ties up the defendant and costs them money, because even if you prevail in court, you can't get back your legal fees in most circumstances.

The suit wouldn't be to win, to claw back the information, or anything effective. It would be to punish the person or people who requested the info, and to dissuade future people from fucking with the cops.

You are right, it's immoral, likely illegal, and certainly unethical. Which, of course, is right in line with police behavior.
posted by explosion at 1:14 PM on April 6, 2023 [12 favorites]

FOR YOUR INFORMATION, PRIOR RESTRAINT HAS BEEN ROUNDLY REJECTED BY THE SUPREME COURT.

I can't wait to see the stories that come out of this treasure trove, and frankly I think it could be a good use of ink to use the police reaction to point out how they revolt against all citizen oversight. Every time law enforcement makes a public statement or file a lawsuit, "there you go again."
posted by rhizome at 2:19 PM on April 6, 2023 [3 favorites]

As an Angeleno, let me just weigh in with a local perspective: fuck the police.
posted by BlahLaLa at 8:57 AM on April 7, 2023 [2 favorites]