Tesla is releasing a new beer to promote their vaporware truck.
April 17, 2023 4:38 PM Subscribe
At roughly $30 a bottle (guess it’s a billionaire’s beer). Meanwhile, the only successfully running Tesla truck model still belongs to this plucky inventor, aka The Queen of Shitty Robots (self-chosen appellation).
And, now it has a cool tailgate!.
And a robot charger thingy.
And, now it has a cool tailgate!.
And a robot charger thingy.
Simone Giertz is the best.
posted by The Half Language Plant at 5:27 PM on April 17, 2023 [25 favorites]
posted by The Half Language Plant at 5:27 PM on April 17, 2023 [25 favorites]
Yay Simone Giertz! And that *is* a cool tailgate! If it's actually rated at 500lbs of load, then it's beefier than the 'normal' tailgate that was on my Chevy S-10 -- that was only rated for 300lbs.
posted by rmd1023 at 5:43 PM on April 17, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by rmd1023 at 5:43 PM on April 17, 2023 [6 favorites]
Meanwhile, Ford and Rivian have beaten Tesla to market with actual trucks that work and are not imaginary. Elon Musk's catastrophic failure in what should have been his home territory feels good.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 5:45 PM on April 17, 2023 [22 favorites]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 5:45 PM on April 17, 2023 [22 favorites]
I saw a Rivian truck the other day and those are some freaky headlights. It looks like a nurse shark.
posted by emjaybee at 5:58 PM on April 17, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 5:58 PM on April 17, 2023 [12 favorites]
Those headlights have nothing on the mega-wiper (that doesn't really wipe well)
posted by JoeZydeco at 6:10 PM on April 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by JoeZydeco at 6:10 PM on April 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
Even the name Cybertruck is stupid. It has taken so long to be delivered that “Cyber” no longer sounds futuristic, it just sounds very dated, like I expect the vehicle to come with an AOL CD and a 56k modem.
posted by interogative mood at 6:10 PM on April 17, 2023 [66 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 6:10 PM on April 17, 2023 [66 favorites]
I wish I could find a decent summary of it, but somebody back in early 2020 I think made a long list of the reasons the cybertruck would never ship as revealed and more likely would never ship at all, because the whole design is, in a wide variety of details, simply illegal.
Anyway, Musk promised about the same time that Tesla would be shipping cars without steering wheels by 2021 so, something to think about.
posted by mhoye at 6:22 PM on April 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
Anyway, Musk promised about the same time that Tesla would be shipping cars without steering wheels by 2021 so, something to think about.
posted by mhoye at 6:22 PM on April 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
It has taken so long to be delivered that “Cyber” no longer sounds futuristic, it just sounds very dated, like I expect the vehicle to come with an AOL CD and a 56k modem.
"Sorry, you can only drive this on the 'information superhighway.'"
"What about interstates?"
"Uh...no. It'll brick."
"Well, I don't live in the U.S., so what about the Trans-Canada?"
"Elon and his Nazi buddies don't like the sound of that."
"Autobahn, then? They must be ok with that, right?"
"Look, I'll level with you. Production models don't exist in any country, so this conversation is just stupid at this point. The only thing that's keeping me from ending it is that at least my paycheques are still clearing."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:22 PM on April 17, 2023 [15 favorites]
"Sorry, you can only drive this on the 'information superhighway.'"
"What about interstates?"
"Uh...no. It'll brick."
"Well, I don't live in the U.S., so what about the Trans-Canada?"
"Elon and his Nazi buddies don't like the sound of that."
"Autobahn, then? They must be ok with that, right?"
"Look, I'll level with you. Production models don't exist in any country, so this conversation is just stupid at this point. The only thing that's keeping me from ending it is that at least my paycheques are still clearing."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:22 PM on April 17, 2023 [15 favorites]
Rivians have taken over in my neighborhood- there must be 10 or so locally and growing over the last 18 months. Even saw one the other day at our local Home Depot being loaded up with actual building stuff. They seem nice enough and functional.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 6:23 PM on April 17, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by inflatablekiwi at 6:23 PM on April 17, 2023 [7 favorites]
They seem nice enough and functional.
There are at least a couple of Rivians close to me since I see two of them all the time in the neighborhood. "Nice enough and functional" is my reaction also. At least driving past, they look like a reasonable pickup you could take to the big box store on the weekend. It's out of my price range, but if I had more cash and wanted an electric truck, I'd be happy to have one.
Regardless of how good or bad the engineering of the (so far mostly imaginary) Tesla truck is, it just looks so stupid, like something the geekiest 12 year old you have ever met would draw. I'd be embarrassed to be seen in one, much less own one.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:30 PM on April 17, 2023 [8 favorites]
There are at least a couple of Rivians close to me since I see two of them all the time in the neighborhood. "Nice enough and functional" is my reaction also. At least driving past, they look like a reasonable pickup you could take to the big box store on the weekend. It's out of my price range, but if I had more cash and wanted an electric truck, I'd be happy to have one.
Regardless of how good or bad the engineering of the (so far mostly imaginary) Tesla truck is, it just looks so stupid, like something the geekiest 12 year old you have ever met would draw. I'd be embarrassed to be seen in one, much less own one.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:30 PM on April 17, 2023 [8 favorites]
This is some weapons-grade crazy. I'd like to think Musk would run out of resources soon and disappear into the ether, but the last year has taught me that I have no idea how the world works.
posted by krisjohn at 6:33 PM on April 17, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by krisjohn at 6:33 PM on April 17, 2023 [11 favorites]
I saw a Rivian truck the other day and those are some freaky headlights. It looks like a nurse shark.
Is that how it's coming off to people?! They've looked straight up like Little Orphan Annie eyes since about 1/2 second after I first saw them.
posted by rhizome at 6:49 PM on April 17, 2023 [14 favorites]
Is that how it's coming off to people?! They've looked straight up like Little Orphan Annie eyes since about 1/2 second after I first saw them.
posted by rhizome at 6:49 PM on April 17, 2023 [14 favorites]
First time I saw an illustration of the Tesla truck, I sincerely thought it was a joke. Was skimming some webpage, and there was the goofy looking vehicle... honestly thought it was some kind of Onion-type spoof story.
posted by SoberHighland at 6:58 PM on April 17, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by SoberHighland at 6:58 PM on April 17, 2023 [6 favorites]
(There's footage of Simone Giertz at the Cybertruck launch going "uhhhhhh.... this looks bad" at the camera. Which was my reaction! It looked terrible, and I'm thrilled that someone competent beat Tesla to market with an electric truck that is practical and looks Okay.)
Giertz's "charging robot" is very funny, because the charging robot has no idea how obscene it looks groping around for the charging port.
posted by Merus at 7:03 PM on April 17, 2023 [10 favorites]
Giertz's "charging robot" is very funny, because the charging robot has no idea how obscene it looks groping around for the charging port.
posted by Merus at 7:03 PM on April 17, 2023 [10 favorites]
I've got a day 1 reservation in on a Cybertruck that I'm still looking forward to ordering despite Elog's recent heel turn. I killed my Twitter account to not support the clown but I'm kinda stuck with my cybertruck fixation.
My goal is to upfit it so I can go camping for a week or three out of it. The 3500lb payload, off-road capability, and notional 500 mile range are all well aligned for this use.
Tho the recent Ram pre-announcement was also a decent sketch of what I'm looking for...
Still hopeful the FSD package will fulfill the promised L4 ADAS for me to be able to nap as the truck drives me down to LA or over to Santa Cruz. I wouldn't bet more than $10 either way on this happening or not by say 2030.
Guess I'll echo Steve Jobs back in '88 here about this truck being late: "Late?? It's not late, it's five years ahead of its time!"
But if somebody announces a decent offroadable van I might move my decision to that platform instead.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 7:07 PM on April 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
My goal is to upfit it so I can go camping for a week or three out of it. The 3500lb payload, off-road capability, and notional 500 mile range are all well aligned for this use.
Tho the recent Ram pre-announcement was also a decent sketch of what I'm looking for...
Still hopeful the FSD package will fulfill the promised L4 ADAS for me to be able to nap as the truck drives me down to LA or over to Santa Cruz. I wouldn't bet more than $10 either way on this happening or not by say 2030.
Guess I'll echo Steve Jobs back in '88 here about this truck being late: "Late?? It's not late, it's five years ahead of its time!"
But if somebody announces a decent offroadable van I might move my decision to that platform instead.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 7:07 PM on April 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
I dunno, man, you can spend a lot fewer bucks over the lifetime of the unit just buying a completely rebuilt and modernized Westfalia, plus you won't look like an absolute dingus driving it.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:12 PM on April 17, 2023 [23 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:12 PM on April 17, 2023 [23 favorites]
Elon Musk's catastrophic failure in what should have been his home territory feels good.
The thing is, I'm not surprised the Cybertruck is slow because unlike other companies, Tesla is "actually" doing the work of coming up with some new ideas and designs, while the F-150 Lightning / Rivian are just... normal body on frame trucks we've built for the past 50 years, more or less.
If Tesla succeeds, we will copy their design and benefit from it. If they fail, well, we're happy too.
See there are two types of vehicles, broadly speaking -
Unibody - basically all cars and crossovers - they're like insects - the inside is hollow, the structural strength is provided by the skin or exoskeleton. When the car turns, accelerates, or tows a heavy object, the forces get distributed through the skin of the car which holds it together.
Body On Frame - basically all trucks and heavy SUVs - they're like humans, we are supported by an internal skeleton (bones). These vehicles have a super strong steel part inside them that's about 300kg in weight called the "ladder frame" that, literally, looks like a ladder, that's the endoskeleton, and everything on the truck or SUV attaches to that frame. So when you tow a heavy object, you're attaching it straight to the frame. For a vehicle that size, and mass, the external skin of the vehicle simply isn't strong enough.
Cybertruck asks the question - isn't this redundant? (Inside EV link) Traditional trucks have an endoskeleton and exoskeleton at the same time. What if we just made the exoskeleton stronger and ditched the endoskeleton?
So we go from 0.5mm soft steel that most cars use for their skin, and instead use 3mm super strong stainless steel for the skin which allows us to ditch the endoskeleton and save on weight and cost. Strong steel can't be moulded into complex shapes so most of the Cybertruck has to be flat surfaces. That's fine, we save money on expensive dies and stamping tools we normally need to make curved surfaces.
Ok, the vehicle looks dumb. The idea is utterly preposterous. But who knows, most innovations looked really dumb to begin with, until they caught on and people realised it really was the most efficient way to do things. Eg remember where executives at Nokia / Blackberry laughed at Apple's first iPhone design, anything new looks weird to us.
Conceptually you could have a truck that is stronger but weighs less, and is cheaper to manufacture. Removing the ladder frame frees up all the space to actually put the battery in. I see what they're doing but none of us are going to spend a few billion dollars trying to find out if it's feasible... (that's what a full scale R&D cycle costs nowadays)
Tesla has typically won through design and manufacturing efficiencies, daring to break what has been 30 years of stagnant design. Eg traditional wiring harnesses at competitors use significantly more wiring than Tesla's current designs - exact numbers not publicly disclosed and how long is a piece of string anyway but it's something like 1.5 km of wiring in a Tesla vs 3.0 km of wiring in their competitors based on teardowns and benchmarks.
There's also the traditional vs unboxed manufacturing process (Twitter Link), where they compare the current vs future method in a reply tweet, which, again, begs the question of, why have traditional manufacturers been building their cars the exact same way for 50 years, and why does it take Tesla to design something better? Like, fine, maybe we find out the traditional method really is better, but I'm glad someone is spending the money trying out something new. Obviously, paint consistency is way better in the traditional method, but paint is something that maybe people care less about today than 50 years ago, technology for paint application has improved, and Tesla paint is famously shit anyway and so it can't really get any worse, etc etc.
Like I feel the "wacky" stuff on the surface at Tesla is not the "thing" itself, but rather a side effect of the real work that goes on under the skin that enables them to deliver profits where other companies in the past have failed. What consumer knows or cares about the fact the Tesla has half the internal wiring of a competitor? The only people that care are the shareholders and banks, and that's how Tesla keeps running and expanding to new factories.
posted by xdvesper at 7:12 PM on April 17, 2023 [12 favorites]
The thing is, I'm not surprised the Cybertruck is slow because unlike other companies, Tesla is "actually" doing the work of coming up with some new ideas and designs, while the F-150 Lightning / Rivian are just... normal body on frame trucks we've built for the past 50 years, more or less.
If Tesla succeeds, we will copy their design and benefit from it. If they fail, well, we're happy too.
See there are two types of vehicles, broadly speaking -
Unibody - basically all cars and crossovers - they're like insects - the inside is hollow, the structural strength is provided by the skin or exoskeleton. When the car turns, accelerates, or tows a heavy object, the forces get distributed through the skin of the car which holds it together.
Body On Frame - basically all trucks and heavy SUVs - they're like humans, we are supported by an internal skeleton (bones). These vehicles have a super strong steel part inside them that's about 300kg in weight called the "ladder frame" that, literally, looks like a ladder, that's the endoskeleton, and everything on the truck or SUV attaches to that frame. So when you tow a heavy object, you're attaching it straight to the frame. For a vehicle that size, and mass, the external skin of the vehicle simply isn't strong enough.
Cybertruck asks the question - isn't this redundant? (Inside EV link) Traditional trucks have an endoskeleton and exoskeleton at the same time. What if we just made the exoskeleton stronger and ditched the endoskeleton?
So we go from 0.5mm soft steel that most cars use for their skin, and instead use 3mm super strong stainless steel for the skin which allows us to ditch the endoskeleton and save on weight and cost. Strong steel can't be moulded into complex shapes so most of the Cybertruck has to be flat surfaces. That's fine, we save money on expensive dies and stamping tools we normally need to make curved surfaces.
Ok, the vehicle looks dumb. The idea is utterly preposterous. But who knows, most innovations looked really dumb to begin with, until they caught on and people realised it really was the most efficient way to do things. Eg remember where executives at Nokia / Blackberry laughed at Apple's first iPhone design, anything new looks weird to us.
Conceptually you could have a truck that is stronger but weighs less, and is cheaper to manufacture. Removing the ladder frame frees up all the space to actually put the battery in. I see what they're doing but none of us are going to spend a few billion dollars trying to find out if it's feasible... (that's what a full scale R&D cycle costs nowadays)
Tesla has typically won through design and manufacturing efficiencies, daring to break what has been 30 years of stagnant design. Eg traditional wiring harnesses at competitors use significantly more wiring than Tesla's current designs - exact numbers not publicly disclosed and how long is a piece of string anyway but it's something like 1.5 km of wiring in a Tesla vs 3.0 km of wiring in their competitors based on teardowns and benchmarks.
There's also the traditional vs unboxed manufacturing process (Twitter Link), where they compare the current vs future method in a reply tweet, which, again, begs the question of, why have traditional manufacturers been building their cars the exact same way for 50 years, and why does it take Tesla to design something better? Like, fine, maybe we find out the traditional method really is better, but I'm glad someone is spending the money trying out something new. Obviously, paint consistency is way better in the traditional method, but paint is something that maybe people care less about today than 50 years ago, technology for paint application has improved, and Tesla paint is famously shit anyway and so it can't really get any worse, etc etc.
Like I feel the "wacky" stuff on the surface at Tesla is not the "thing" itself, but rather a side effect of the real work that goes on under the skin that enables them to deliver profits where other companies in the past have failed. What consumer knows or cares about the fact the Tesla has half the internal wiring of a competitor? The only people that care are the shareholders and banks, and that's how Tesla keeps running and expanding to new factories.
posted by xdvesper at 7:12 PM on April 17, 2023 [12 favorites]
My son used to be completely obsessed with the Tesla Model X. He was two years old when people started getting them in our neighborhood and he would FREAK OUT any time he saw one, to the point where he could tell the different Tesla cars apart by sight and would beg perfect strangers getting out of their cars to please, please open the "going-up doors". He would pretend to be a Model X with the stranger's car, lifting his arms as the doors went up. Our local mall has a Tesla storefront and he'd drag us in there to sit in the display models. Dude was a stan. I didn't really want a Tesla but I test drove one so I could tell him I'd done it.
Alas for Elon, my son at 7 thinks Teslas are yesterday's news and has become an avid Rivian spotter in our neighborhood. I wish I didn't believe "where upper middle class little boys are looking, the automobile market follows" buuuut I absolutely do believe that.
posted by potrzebie at 7:31 PM on April 17, 2023 [15 favorites]
Alas for Elon, my son at 7 thinks Teslas are yesterday's news and has become an avid Rivian spotter in our neighborhood. I wish I didn't believe "where upper middle class little boys are looking, the automobile market follows" buuuut I absolutely do believe that.
posted by potrzebie at 7:31 PM on April 17, 2023 [15 favorites]
Cybertruck asks the question - isn't this redundant? Traditional trucks have an endoskeleton and exoskeleton at the same time. What if we just made the exoskeleton stronger and ditched the endoskeleton?
To which the answer is "no, because this fundamentally misunderstands why the ladder frame exists." Trucks are built the way they are because in a very real way they are platforms, and the idea is that you can actually do things like remove the truck bed and replace it with other various modules to convert the truck for various uses. By making the skin into an integral part of the body, you have now locked the vehicle into the shape that it was built in, making retrofitting and conversion much more difficult. Not to mention the little things like the fact that truck beds are designed to be be able to be reached in from the sides to handle whatever is in the truck bed - something that seemed obvious until the Cybertruck with its side panels alongside the bed. (And if those panels are necessary to make the frame rigid enough for the unibody design to work well...that proves my point above.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:40 PM on April 17, 2023 [26 favorites]
To which the answer is "no, because this fundamentally misunderstands why the ladder frame exists." Trucks are built the way they are because in a very real way they are platforms, and the idea is that you can actually do things like remove the truck bed and replace it with other various modules to convert the truck for various uses. By making the skin into an integral part of the body, you have now locked the vehicle into the shape that it was built in, making retrofitting and conversion much more difficult. Not to mention the little things like the fact that truck beds are designed to be be able to be reached in from the sides to handle whatever is in the truck bed - something that seemed obvious until the Cybertruck with its side panels alongside the bed. (And if those panels are necessary to make the frame rigid enough for the unibody design to work well...that proves my point above.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:40 PM on April 17, 2023 [26 favorites]
And a Rivian (and Ford and GM platform) is a skateboard that you can plop different bodies onto. There was a reason Rivian was able to pivot to quickly building Amazon vans- all the engineering hard parts were done with the skateboard.
posted by rockindata at 7:46 PM on April 17, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by rockindata at 7:46 PM on April 17, 2023 [6 favorites]
Interview with Simone Giertz-- I've only started listening to it, but I think she'll be talking about trucks. She's interesting in general.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 7:50 PM on April 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 7:50 PM on April 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
Yeah, yeah, innovation and endoskeletons, sure.
You will never convince me that the cybertruck wasn't just some dumb bullshit Musk sketched while stoned, and will never be released to market.
posted by ryanrs at 7:50 PM on April 17, 2023 [21 favorites]
You will never convince me that the cybertruck wasn't just some dumb bullshit Musk sketched while stoned, and will never be released to market.
posted by ryanrs at 7:50 PM on April 17, 2023 [21 favorites]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmqH1cWIMVY
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 7:53 PM on April 17, 2023
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 7:53 PM on April 17, 2023
Prototype Rivians were used as the main support trucks for the Long Way Up documentary, which was occasionally comical (they had to hire a truck at a truck stop to tow one at one point, to charge it up enough to get to the next charging point), but they did at least look like someone had thought about making it a practical truck for work and travel, and apparently Rivian used the trip as a guide for improvements they needed to make.
posted by tavella at 7:57 PM on April 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by tavella at 7:57 PM on April 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
If I were a millionaire I'd have a R1S in my garage right now for sure. Unfortunately buying a Rivian is also betting on the survival of the company; which comes first, Tesla achieving L4 FSD or Rivian fading like Lucid is an open question to me.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 8:14 PM on April 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 8:14 PM on April 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
If we’re considering vaporware pickup trucks that are unlikely to ever exist, I’d rather be contemplating the Canoo.
posted by zamboni at 8:17 PM on April 17, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by zamboni at 8:17 PM on April 17, 2023 [9 favorites]
Wow that Canoo has a real Simon Stålenhag vibe.
posted by Mister Moofoo at 8:23 PM on April 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Mister Moofoo at 8:23 PM on April 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
Is that how it's coming off to people?! They've looked straight up like Little Orphan Annie eyes since about 1/2 second after I first saw them.
Little Orphan Annie with a unibrow.
posted by 2N2222 at 8:28 PM on April 17, 2023
Little Orphan Annie with a unibrow.
posted by 2N2222 at 8:28 PM on April 17, 2023
To which the answer is "no, because this fundamentally misunderstands why the ladder frame exists." Trucks are built the way they are because in a very real way they are platforms,
At smaller scales, you don't necessarily need a ladder frame to be a platform. The Ford Maverick is a unibody truck based on the C2 platform used by the Ford Focus, for example.
The point of having a common platform or underbody is to reduce the amount of engineering work it takes to produce more vehicle variants.
And what better way to do that than having the Cybertruck be unibody to increase commonality with the rest of the Tesla lineup?
You do mention after-market conversion being easier for body-on-frame, I guess Tesla is willing to ignore that market for their first iteration. They are highly vertically integrated, and I suspect they would rather design the variants and accessories themselves and keep the profit in house.
posted by xdvesper at 8:57 PM on April 17, 2023
At smaller scales, you don't necessarily need a ladder frame to be a platform. The Ford Maverick is a unibody truck based on the C2 platform used by the Ford Focus, for example.
The point of having a common platform or underbody is to reduce the amount of engineering work it takes to produce more vehicle variants.
And what better way to do that than having the Cybertruck be unibody to increase commonality with the rest of the Tesla lineup?
You do mention after-market conversion being easier for body-on-frame, I guess Tesla is willing to ignore that market for their first iteration. They are highly vertically integrated, and I suspect they would rather design the variants and accessories themselves and keep the profit in house.
posted by xdvesper at 8:57 PM on April 17, 2023
If I can’t easily load and unload a pickup over the sides of the bed, it’s worthless to me.
posted by azpenguin at 9:05 PM on April 17, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by azpenguin at 9:05 PM on April 17, 2023 [10 favorites]
>Cybertruck be unibody to increase commonality with the rest of the Tesla lineup?
? CT is a radical departure from the S -> X -> 3 -> Y evolution of the platform.
It's going to have weird casted components since you can't actually build an entire vehicle out of folded steel. My guess is the various cast aluminum subassemblies and the structural battery pack are going to be attached to the steel "exoskeleton" for a very solid structure.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 9:10 PM on April 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
? CT is a radical departure from the S -> X -> 3 -> Y evolution of the platform.
It's going to have weird casted components since you can't actually build an entire vehicle out of folded steel. My guess is the various cast aluminum subassemblies and the structural battery pack are going to be attached to the steel "exoskeleton" for a very solid structure.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 9:10 PM on April 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
I love that absolutely nobody here has taken Tesla's bait and said one word about the beer...
posted by mmoncur at 9:39 PM on April 17, 2023 [22 favorites]
posted by mmoncur at 9:39 PM on April 17, 2023 [22 favorites]
But who knows, most innovations looked really dumb to begin with, until they caught on and people realised it really was the most efficient way to do things. Eg remember where executives at Nokia / Blackberry laughed at Apple's first iPhone design, anything new looks weird to us.
This is a popular argument, especially amongst cryptobros, but: I put the point of Slashdot's irrelevance at the launch of the iPod, where the top rated comment was "No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame." when anyone normal went "wow, they actually made an MP3 player nice to use". That click wheel was super cool. Similarly, the reason why Nokia and Blackberry were caught off guard was because they were out of touch and did not realise the multi-touch screen made the smartphone far more usable.
People who are extremely invested in the status quo might be out of touch, and miss what the general public sees, but that doesn't work the other way around - if the general public look at it and don't understand why anyone would want it, and the people who know also think it's bad, then they're not out of touch, it's just a bad idea.
posted by Merus at 10:03 PM on April 17, 2023 [8 favorites]
This is a popular argument, especially amongst cryptobros, but: I put the point of Slashdot's irrelevance at the launch of the iPod, where the top rated comment was "No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame." when anyone normal went "wow, they actually made an MP3 player nice to use". That click wheel was super cool. Similarly, the reason why Nokia and Blackberry were caught off guard was because they were out of touch and did not realise the multi-touch screen made the smartphone far more usable.
People who are extremely invested in the status quo might be out of touch, and miss what the general public sees, but that doesn't work the other way around - if the general public look at it and don't understand why anyone would want it, and the people who know also think it's bad, then they're not out of touch, it's just a bad idea.
posted by Merus at 10:03 PM on April 17, 2023 [8 favorites]
The mp3 player was a brand new category of device with a small user base when iPod launched. Pickup trucks are the top selling vehicle in the United States.
posted by interogative mood at 10:14 PM on April 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 10:14 PM on April 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
iPod killed the portable CD Player not the mp3 player.
Not that the Cybertruck is mass-market like the iPod – it's terribly niche, providing an intersection of utility for people who are in the market for a vehicle with a 3500lb payload, decent offroading ability, acceleration 0 to 60 like a Z9 Corvette, and/or able to drive the 500 miles from Seattle to Boise on a home charge instead of paying ~$100 for gas.
Kinda like an extreme Subaru Baja. It's a truck, but inadvertently.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 11:12 PM on April 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
Not that the Cybertruck is mass-market like the iPod – it's terribly niche, providing an intersection of utility for people who are in the market for a vehicle with a 3500lb payload, decent offroading ability, acceleration 0 to 60 like a Z9 Corvette, and/or able to drive the 500 miles from Seattle to Boise on a home charge instead of paying ~$100 for gas.
Kinda like an extreme Subaru Baja. It's a truck, but inadvertently.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 11:12 PM on April 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
I didn't fully complete the metaphor, but to avoid any further derail - the difference between "innovative" and "bad" is that it should be pretty obvious to the average punter that the trade-off gets you more than you lose. Losing the tactile keyboard buttons on the iPhone was worth having a much more capable, flexible device. Making your pickup lighter and stronger isn't worth not being able to open up the sides or have an anchor spot for ropes.
posted by Merus at 11:31 PM on April 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Merus at 11:31 PM on April 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
I'll think of those drawbacks when I'm daydreaming in my cybertruck as it's driving me down I-5 to LA & back for free.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 11:39 PM on April 17, 2023
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 11:39 PM on April 17, 2023
> ...like I expect the vehicle to come with an AOL CD and a 56k modem.At this point in 2023, I expect Musk would think that's a fantastic idea, demand the CD dangle freely from the cab rearview mirror, and then ignore+fire the senior engineer who tried to explain what'll happen when sunlight hits the CD.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 11:47 PM on April 17, 2023 [6 favorites]
xdvesper: So we go from 0.5mm soft steel that most cars use for their skin, and instead use 3mm super strong stainless steel for the skin which allows us to ditch the endoskeleton and save on weight and cost.
How do pedestrians and children fare in crash testing? What are the vehicle-vehicle crumple zones like? Are these redundant questions?
posted by k3ninho at 12:09 AM on April 18, 2023 [16 favorites]
How do pedestrians and children fare in crash testing? What are the vehicle-vehicle crumple zones like? Are these redundant questions?
posted by k3ninho at 12:09 AM on April 18, 2023 [16 favorites]
Meanwhile, Ford and Rivian have beaten Tesla to market with actual trucks that work and are not imaginary
and Janus Electric is selling an electric retrofit for multiple existing makes and models of heavy truck that's the same size as their existing diesel powertrains and fuel systems, with twice the Tesla Semi's advertised haulage capacity and a standardized forklift-swappable battery pack design that makes refuelling faster than diesel, at a price that drops the total cost of ownership over expected service life to well below that of a traditional diesel rebuild.
Tesla deserve a lot of credit for shifting the Overton window on electric vehicles and Musk's relentless hucksterism has certainly been a large contributor to that, but their Apple-like devotion to vendor lock-in makes them a marque that I am not the slightest bit interested in owning and I'm sure I'm not alone in that.
I'm waiting for Aptera. If they manage to offer a model compliant with the applicable Australian Design Rules, theirs will be the first car I've ever found attractive enough to contemplate buying new. They talk a strong game on right to repair and their approach to design makes the Cybertruck look totally antiquated. Sandy Munro is a fan.
posted by flabdablet at 1:05 AM on April 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
and Janus Electric is selling an electric retrofit for multiple existing makes and models of heavy truck that's the same size as their existing diesel powertrains and fuel systems, with twice the Tesla Semi's advertised haulage capacity and a standardized forklift-swappable battery pack design that makes refuelling faster than diesel, at a price that drops the total cost of ownership over expected service life to well below that of a traditional diesel rebuild.
Tesla deserve a lot of credit for shifting the Overton window on electric vehicles and Musk's relentless hucksterism has certainly been a large contributor to that, but their Apple-like devotion to vendor lock-in makes them a marque that I am not the slightest bit interested in owning and I'm sure I'm not alone in that.
I'm waiting for Aptera. If they manage to offer a model compliant with the applicable Australian Design Rules, theirs will be the first car I've ever found attractive enough to contemplate buying new. They talk a strong game on right to repair and their approach to design makes the Cybertruck look totally antiquated. Sandy Munro is a fan.
posted by flabdablet at 1:05 AM on April 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
How do pedestrians and children fare in crash testing?
Both IIHS and NHTSA do not measure pedestrian impact injuries or deaths, so go nuts, basically. That's the the US market...
Europe, Oceania, China, are based on Euro NCAP, which has measured pedestrian safety as far back as I can remember (even our 2002 cars were rated on pedestrian safety).
South America uses Latin NCAP and Asia uses ASEAN NCAP which while adapted from Euro NCAP, at first glance does seem to measure pedestrian safety.
I don't know, it's possible they can still pass pedestrian impact tests, we'll see... one concern during pedestrian crash testing is actually that the steel in the hood is too thin and deformable and in the event of a head strike your head actually contacts the engine block which would be very very bad.
One of the other interesting differences between US / Rest of World is the US insistence on roof crush strength tests, NCAP believes it's counter-productive because to beat the roof crush test you compel manufacturers to design a stronger roof, which means a higher chance of rollover since you are putting more weight near the roof and raising the center of gravity...
posted by xdvesper at 1:14 AM on April 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
Both IIHS and NHTSA do not measure pedestrian impact injuries or deaths, so go nuts, basically. That's the the US market...
Europe, Oceania, China, are based on Euro NCAP, which has measured pedestrian safety as far back as I can remember (even our 2002 cars were rated on pedestrian safety).
South America uses Latin NCAP and Asia uses ASEAN NCAP which while adapted from Euro NCAP, at first glance does seem to measure pedestrian safety.
I don't know, it's possible they can still pass pedestrian impact tests, we'll see... one concern during pedestrian crash testing is actually that the steel in the hood is too thin and deformable and in the event of a head strike your head actually contacts the engine block which would be very very bad.
One of the other interesting differences between US / Rest of World is the US insistence on roof crush strength tests, NCAP believes it's counter-productive because to beat the roof crush test you compel manufacturers to design a stronger roof, which means a higher chance of rollover since you are putting more weight near the roof and raising the center of gravity...
posted by xdvesper at 1:14 AM on April 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
That's less of an issue for electrics in general, though, because so much of their weight is in the battery pack and that's almost always right at the bottom.
posted by flabdablet at 1:20 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by flabdablet at 1:20 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Tesla is "actually" doing the work of coming up with some new ideas and designs
Anyone who’s encountered those fucking door handles will realize that disrupting beer in a similar manner is likely to get you carbonated bong water in a milk carton that inexplicably requires a password to open unless one of the corners dissolves first.
posted by aspersioncast at 4:42 AM on April 18, 2023 [31 favorites]
Anyone who’s encountered those fucking door handles will realize that disrupting beer in a similar manner is likely to get you carbonated bong water in a milk carton that inexplicably requires a password to open unless one of the corners dissolves first.
posted by aspersioncast at 4:42 AM on April 18, 2023 [31 favorites]
Given Tesla's history of fit and finish issues, I'm not sure any such milk carton would actually seal; you might not need to wait very long at all for the corners to dissolve.
Simone seems a little down on herself for Truckla's susceptibility to rain but it is, after all, a Tesla.
posted by flabdablet at 5:01 AM on April 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Simone seems a little down on herself for Truckla's susceptibility to rain but it is, after all, a Tesla.
posted by flabdablet at 5:01 AM on April 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
From an old reddit thread upon the cybertruck's release
Seriously what fuck is that? It looks like a DeLorean fucked a triangle.
It looks like a Pontiac Aztec went through a knife sharpener
posted by lalochezia at 5:05 AM on April 18, 2023 [18 favorites]
Seriously what fuck is that? It looks like a DeLorean fucked a triangle.
It looks like a Pontiac Aztec went through a knife sharpener
posted by lalochezia at 5:05 AM on April 18, 2023 [18 favorites]
I have serious doubts about how well you'll be able to see out of the Cybertruck in bad weather. That huge wiper is never going to be able to keep that windshield clear in a downpour and as far as I can tell, there's no wiper at all at the back.
posted by octothorpe at 5:09 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by octothorpe at 5:09 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
After reading about how Musk gutted the sensor array Telsas were working with and forces engineers to fix his own perceived problems over and above any long-term strategy, anyone who is looking forward to FSD that actually works and will not kill you will be waiting past the span of their lifetime.
posted by rikschell at 5:12 AM on April 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 5:12 AM on April 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
I have serious doubts about how well you'll be able to see out of the Cybertruck in bad weather
To be fair, it doesn't often rain on Mars.
posted by flabdablet at 5:13 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
To be fair, it doesn't often rain on Mars.
posted by flabdablet at 5:13 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
The beer currently has a 3.54 rating (out of 5) on untappd.com
posted by Ike_Arumba at 5:17 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Ike_Arumba at 5:17 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
One of the other interesting differences between US / Rest of World is the US insistence on roof crush strength tests, NCAP believes it's counter-productive because to beat the roof crush test you compel manufacturers to design a stronger roof, which means a higher chance of rollover since you are putting more weight near the roof and raising the center of gravity.
Saab had their famous moose/elk test and I think the cars were designed so the animals wouldn't crush the roof?
I miss Saab. Their cars were weird, disruptive, and fun in a way that I suspect most people wish was the case with Tesla. But Saab always put some goddamned thought into why they'd choose to do something different than 99% of other manufacturers: placing the ignition in the center console reduced theft, having large buttons on the console made it easier to drive while wearing winter gloves, etc. Their decisions might have appeared baffling or counterintuitive, but one you understood the use case it all made perfect sense. With Tesla it's just "Musk thinks an F1-style yoke would look cool, so we're going to offer that and let our legions of stans bombard the internet with half-assed reasons for why yokes are superior to steering wheels!"
Also, Saabs and Volvos were safer than every other car on the road. And that safety didn't rest on the promise that magical software AI fairies could drive the car better than a human could and avoid collisions--they were safe because they were designed so the passengers could survive a collision.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:25 AM on April 18, 2023 [15 favorites]
Saab had their famous moose/elk test and I think the cars were designed so the animals wouldn't crush the roof?
I miss Saab. Their cars were weird, disruptive, and fun in a way that I suspect most people wish was the case with Tesla. But Saab always put some goddamned thought into why they'd choose to do something different than 99% of other manufacturers: placing the ignition in the center console reduced theft, having large buttons on the console made it easier to drive while wearing winter gloves, etc. Their decisions might have appeared baffling or counterintuitive, but one you understood the use case it all made perfect sense. With Tesla it's just "Musk thinks an F1-style yoke would look cool, so we're going to offer that and let our legions of stans bombard the internet with half-assed reasons for why yokes are superior to steering wheels!"
Also, Saabs and Volvos were safer than every other car on the road. And that safety didn't rest on the promise that magical software AI fairies could drive the car better than a human could and avoid collisions--they were safe because they were designed so the passengers could survive a collision.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:25 AM on April 18, 2023 [15 favorites]
Single wipers worked well on several of the old series of Mercedes. They abandoned it purely for cost-saving reasons.
posted by drstrangelove at 6:11 AM on April 18, 2023
posted by drstrangelove at 6:11 AM on April 18, 2023
Yeah but the MB windshields weren't either that huge or that steeply raked. Also their wipers were designed by Mercedes Benz engineers, not Teslas.
posted by octothorpe at 6:15 AM on April 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 6:15 AM on April 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
I'll think of those drawbacks when I'm daydreaming in my cybertruck as it's driving me down I-5 to LA & back for free.
I seriously cannot think of a better way to undermine the credibility of any pro-Tesla argument than reminding everyone that they are perfectly fine releasing a product that murders pedestrians because that's easier and cheaper to deal with than controlled testing.
posted by solotoro at 6:32 AM on April 18, 2023 [19 favorites]
I seriously cannot think of a better way to undermine the credibility of any pro-Tesla argument than reminding everyone that they are perfectly fine releasing a product that murders pedestrians because that's easier and cheaper to deal with than controlled testing.
posted by solotoro at 6:32 AM on April 18, 2023 [19 favorites]
Ridgelines don’t look like that any more though. Neither does the Maverick. Elmo’s truck looks even more behind the times by comparison now.
posted by The Monster at the End of this Thread at 6:43 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by The Monster at the End of this Thread at 6:43 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Ridgelines don’t look like that any more though. Neither does the Maverick. Elmo’s truck looks even more behind the times by comparison now.
There was a recent article about the amount of engineering it took to redesign the Ridgeline to look more "normal" while still providing sufficient structural strength for load capacity in the bed. I can't find it, but basically it isn't a trivial problem to solve without using a traditional frame. This also explains why the Ridgeline and Maverick are only released in short-bed, double-cab configurations -- it would take a complete redesign to have a long-bed, extended-cab version and the structural problems get harder.
(Offering only that one configuration isn't a problem for sales, since that is the configuration that everyone except contractors buys these days. The graphics in this Axios article (which probably deserves its own FPP) about how pickup truck designs have changed over time show clearly how the average pickup has gone from being small-cab, long-bed to huge-cab, tiny-bed in just a few decades. You can still buy other configurations, but mostly people don't buy those anymore.)
posted by Dip Flash at 7:04 AM on April 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
There was a recent article about the amount of engineering it took to redesign the Ridgeline to look more "normal" while still providing sufficient structural strength for load capacity in the bed. I can't find it, but basically it isn't a trivial problem to solve without using a traditional frame. This also explains why the Ridgeline and Maverick are only released in short-bed, double-cab configurations -- it would take a complete redesign to have a long-bed, extended-cab version and the structural problems get harder.
(Offering only that one configuration isn't a problem for sales, since that is the configuration that everyone except contractors buys these days. The graphics in this Axios article (which probably deserves its own FPP) about how pickup truck designs have changed over time show clearly how the average pickup has gone from being small-cab, long-bed to huge-cab, tiny-bed in just a few decades. You can still buy other configurations, but mostly people don't buy those anymore.)
posted by Dip Flash at 7:04 AM on April 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
Gierrrrrrrtz!
posted by BlunderingArtist at 7:15 AM on April 18, 2023
posted by BlunderingArtist at 7:15 AM on April 18, 2023
Yeah but the MB windshields weren't either that huge or that steeply raked. Also their wipers were designed by Mercedes Benz engineers, not Teslas.
They also weren't able to keep up in heavy downpours vs a pair of wipers.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:48 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
They also weren't able to keep up in heavy downpours vs a pair of wipers.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:48 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
One of the other interesting differences between US / Rest of World is the US insistence on roof crush strength tests
The other is that mostly pick up trucks make up most of the 10 top models sold in the US, with only 1 car (Toyota Camry) in like 5-7th place, and SUVS taking up the rest, with like 4X as many sales of the top 3 (all pickup trucks) as the Camry. Also pickups generally make up around 50% of the US 'luxury' market, ie: new car prices over $50k.
I don't think that is true for most of the rest of the world.
So that Elon's truck is still a pipe dream is hilarious, and that's why Euro manufacturers are flirting with making pick up trucks.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:58 AM on April 18, 2023
The other is that mostly pick up trucks make up most of the 10 top models sold in the US, with only 1 car (Toyota Camry) in like 5-7th place, and SUVS taking up the rest, with like 4X as many sales of the top 3 (all pickup trucks) as the Camry. Also pickups generally make up around 50% of the US 'luxury' market, ie: new car prices over $50k.
I don't think that is true for most of the rest of the world.
So that Elon's truck is still a pipe dream is hilarious, and that's why Euro manufacturers are flirting with making pick up trucks.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:58 AM on April 18, 2023
Euro manufacturers are flirting with making pick up trucks.
Ten years from now I'm driving a Peugeot pickup truck. On the rear window is a decal of Calvin pissing on Renault logo.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 8:33 AM on April 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
Ten years from now I'm driving a Peugeot pickup truck. On the rear window is a decal of Calvin pissing on Renault logo.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 8:33 AM on April 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
Ten years from now I'm driving a Peugeot pickup truck. On the rear window is a decal of Calvin pissing on Renault logo.
I don't know if they still do, but Peugeot made trucks for a long time. Almost thirty years ago I worked at a place that had a Peugeot truck and I rode in it all the time. It was tiny with a tiny engine and was made for people shorter than me, but it worked fine as a basic truck. It didn't have the Calvin sticker, though.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:51 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
I don't know if they still do, but Peugeot made trucks for a long time. Almost thirty years ago I worked at a place that had a Peugeot truck and I rode in it all the time. It was tiny with a tiny engine and was made for people shorter than me, but it worked fine as a basic truck. It didn't have the Calvin sticker, though.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:51 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
and that's why Euro manufacturers are flirting with making pick up trucks.
Of course, there's still the chicken tax to deal with.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:55 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Of course, there's still the chicken tax to deal with.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:55 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
I love that absolutely nobody here has taken Tesla's bait and said one word about the beer...
Does the bottle shatter when you twist the cap?
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:12 AM on April 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
Does the bottle shatter when you twist the cap?
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:12 AM on April 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
I assume it spontaneously combusts somehow. This is his real innovation, making everything catch fire.
posted by Dark Messiah at 9:13 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Dark Messiah at 9:13 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
murders pedestrians
has a Tesla being operated in FSD mode hit anyone yet? My experience with AP late last year in a Hertz rental was rather unimpressive (sudden braking about once an hour and tendency to dive into merge lanes for no reason) but AFAIK the FSD public testing program is going OK still.
I didn't think any company could get away with just letting their fleet "go to town" testing an "L3.5" ADAS like this, but it certainly is good data to collect and ML from.
Since there's about a trillion or two of market cap to unlock with all-weather L4 ADAS, I do wonder if it's actually possible via ML or just a pipe dream.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 9:25 AM on April 18, 2023
has a Tesla being operated in FSD mode hit anyone yet? My experience with AP late last year in a Hertz rental was rather unimpressive (sudden braking about once an hour and tendency to dive into merge lanes for no reason) but AFAIK the FSD public testing program is going OK still.
I didn't think any company could get away with just letting their fleet "go to town" testing an "L3.5" ADAS like this, but it certainly is good data to collect and ML from.
Since there's about a trillion or two of market cap to unlock with all-weather L4 ADAS, I do wonder if it's actually possible via ML or just a pipe dream.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 9:25 AM on April 18, 2023
There have been 19 deaths verified to have been caused by Tesla's autopilot:
https://www.tesladeaths.com/
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:32 AM on April 18, 2023 [10 favorites]
https://www.tesladeaths.com/
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:32 AM on April 18, 2023 [10 favorites]
and that's why Euro manufacturers are flirting with making pick up trucks.
I believe you, but as someone who hates pick ups with a passion and is sad it's so hard to get a compact or station wagon in the US I really really hope that won't come to pass.
posted by photo guy at 9:54 AM on April 18, 2023
I believe you, but as someone who hates pick ups with a passion and is sad it's so hard to get a compact or station wagon in the US I really really hope that won't come to pass.
posted by photo guy at 9:54 AM on April 18, 2023
SAAB was first an airplane company and the original SAAB car (the 92 so named after its project number) was designed by 16 engineers who had been working on planes. Fun fact, Project 91 was a single engine trainer aircraft.
posted by achrise at 9:55 AM on April 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by achrise at 9:55 AM on April 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Neat. There's also https://www.tesla-fire.com/
It didn't take long to spot this gem:
8/5/2022 USA MA Car spontaneously catches on fire at Tesla store
posted by RonButNotStupid at 10:05 AM on April 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
It didn't take long to spot this gem:
8/5/2022 USA MA Car spontaneously catches on fire at Tesla store
posted by RonButNotStupid at 10:05 AM on April 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
"autopilot" is not the "FSD" ADAS currently being mass tested on public roads. it is a separate buggy product that has indeed gotten more than few drivers and their passengers killed due to various issues like not being able to see a semi-trailer blocking the road ahead (that crash in Florida was actually using the MobileEye system that Tesla abandoned for its own solution)
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 10:16 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 10:16 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Does it really matter if the self-driving technology currently being tested on public roads is different from the previous self-driving technology that was also tested on public roads and resulted in several verified deaths?
Or are we supposed to be excited that the technology has improved to the point where their open-beta is no longer getting people killed?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 10:24 AM on April 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
Or are we supposed to be excited that the technology has improved to the point where their open-beta is no longer getting people killed?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 10:24 AM on April 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
CT is a radical departure from the S -> X -> 3 -> Y evolution of the platform.
It was S,3,X,Y.
Cyber truck was the C, and the upcoming Tesla models respectively are going to be the A, the R and the Model 5, because Musk is ultimately a fourteen year old nerd poseur with an inheritance.
posted by mhoye at 10:34 AM on April 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
It was S,3,X,Y.
Cyber truck was the C, and the upcoming Tesla models respectively are going to be the A, the R and the Model 5, because Musk is ultimately a fourteen year old nerd poseur with an inheritance.
posted by mhoye at 10:34 AM on April 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
SAAB was first an airplane company and the original SAAB car (the 92 so named after its project number) was designed by 16 engineers who had been working on planes.
Which is why they could do great adverts like this. Which still to this day makes me want to get a SAAB.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 10:35 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Which is why they could do great adverts like this. Which still to this day makes me want to get a SAAB.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 10:35 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Or are we supposed to be excited that the technology has improved to the point where their open-beta is no longer getting people killed?
I am, since the AP stuff I experienced with my Model 3 rental was really pretty crappy. Better than nothing but not that high a bar for competitors to clear.
There's a lot of inside baseball here about radar not being all that great a thing to integrate into an ADAS since you don't want false positives (which result in crashes behind you like the Thanksgiving weekend bay bridge pileup) or false negatives, which generally result in the car just plowing into what's blocking the lane at high speed (due to induced driver inattentiveness).
Tesla's FSD thing is one of the more impressive and ambitious projects I've seen, on the scale of GPT and with about the same success level. It's great when it works!
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 10:57 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
I am, since the AP stuff I experienced with my Model 3 rental was really pretty crappy. Better than nothing but not that high a bar for competitors to clear.
There's a lot of inside baseball here about radar not being all that great a thing to integrate into an ADAS since you don't want false positives (which result in crashes behind you like the Thanksgiving weekend bay bridge pileup) or false negatives, which generally result in the car just plowing into what's blocking the lane at high speed (due to induced driver inattentiveness).
Tesla's FSD thing is one of the more impressive and ambitious projects I've seen, on the scale of GPT and with about the same success level. It's great when it works!
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 10:57 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
I want an electric not-car worth the price someday. We will retire to a home that is only reachable by a couple of miles of dirt road.
I have owned pickups before, and that is my last option because the bed would be empty most of the time. I really love the minivan - sliding doors and removable seats FTW.
The rivian was a truck that seemed to be a good fit if i was truck in’, I’d use the ski port and put bikes in the back etc more than i’d be going to home depot. But I really wish for a minibus or minivan with that air suspension etc. That suv is so stingy looking on room, they should pivot it as a subaru hatchback replacement. Though i think the roof is low enough that racks would work out. I saw both at a Fully Charged expo in Austin just before Covid took over.
I’d buy the Ford if I could get that entry level trim but again I want an outdoors and unpacked road ready van thingy. I look forward to seeing what is generated beyond trucks. The vw van looks cool but i had an experience with a new passat diesel getting rekt by a vw belt and got told they would do nothing about it.
posted by drowsy at 11:24 AM on April 18, 2023
I have owned pickups before, and that is my last option because the bed would be empty most of the time. I really love the minivan - sliding doors and removable seats FTW.
The rivian was a truck that seemed to be a good fit if i was truck in’, I’d use the ski port and put bikes in the back etc more than i’d be going to home depot. But I really wish for a minibus or minivan with that air suspension etc. That suv is so stingy looking on room, they should pivot it as a subaru hatchback replacement. Though i think the roof is low enough that racks would work out. I saw both at a Fully Charged expo in Austin just before Covid took over.
I’d buy the Ford if I could get that entry level trim but again I want an outdoors and unpacked road ready van thingy. I look forward to seeing what is generated beyond trucks. The vw van looks cool but i had an experience with a new passat diesel getting rekt by a vw belt and got told they would do nothing about it.
posted by drowsy at 11:24 AM on April 18, 2023
I'm of mixed feelings in the Tesla Wars here. I own a Tesla Model Y. I love it. I'm increasingly embarrassed to admit it. Musk continues to prove himself a buffoon, an asshole, and an emperor without clothes. I absolutely don't believe FSD will be at the point of "napping while my car drives me to LA" in my lifetime, certainly not the lifetime of my car, but that's ok, I don't use it and it's not why I love my car.
Anyway, just wanted to point out that that tesladeaths.com site is not 100% trustworthy on its own. I haven't clicked through to every source, but scrolling down the page and clicking the source links for the first two "verified Tesla autopilot deaths", the first one (1 death) does not mention autopilot or FSD at all. The second one (2 deaths) states that a box truck rear ended a motorcycle with two people on it, then rear ended a Tesla that was stopped in traffic. Both riders of the motorcycle died. Not sure how that gets attributed to "verified Tesla autopilot death." So while some of the deaths may be partially or fully due to autopilot (again, haven't clicked every link), it's definitely not all 19 they claim.
posted by Roommate at 12:46 PM on April 18, 2023
Anyway, just wanted to point out that that tesladeaths.com site is not 100% trustworthy on its own. I haven't clicked through to every source, but scrolling down the page and clicking the source links for the first two "verified Tesla autopilot deaths", the first one (1 death) does not mention autopilot or FSD at all. The second one (2 deaths) states that a box truck rear ended a motorcycle with two people on it, then rear ended a Tesla that was stopped in traffic. Both riders of the motorcycle died. Not sure how that gets attributed to "verified Tesla autopilot death." So while some of the deaths may be partially or fully due to autopilot (again, haven't clicked every link), it's definitely not all 19 they claim.
posted by Roommate at 12:46 PM on April 18, 2023
I love it. I'm increasingly embarrassed to admit it.
No joke, I’ve seen bumper stickers reading “I bought it before we found out how awful he is.”
posted by mhoye at 1:05 PM on April 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
No joke, I’ve seen bumper stickers reading “I bought it before we found out how awful he is.”
posted by mhoye at 1:05 PM on April 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
I see tons of Teslas in the Bay Area, and am I wrong to think they suck? They're boring and ugly, and not even ugly in a distinctive way. And when I got to ride in one (as an Uber passenger) it was pretty meh.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:06 PM on April 18, 2023
posted by kirkaracha at 1:06 PM on April 18, 2023
I really love the minivan - sliding doors and removable seats FTW.
I personally hate my Honda Minivan, but there are no minivans near the top of US car sales, so the Honda has barely been updated in a solid decade and there is a pretty low chance that any manufacturer is going to carry minivan features towards SUVs. The top minivan sold 1/10 as many units as the top pickup and 1/3 as many as the Tesla SUV.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:20 PM on April 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
I personally hate my Honda Minivan, but there are no minivans near the top of US car sales, so the Honda has barely been updated in a solid decade and there is a pretty low chance that any manufacturer is going to carry minivan features towards SUVs. The top minivan sold 1/10 as many units as the top pickup and 1/3 as many as the Tesla SUV.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:20 PM on April 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
MeFi's own #1 has a Rivian and seems to like it.
posted by terrapin at 1:49 PM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by terrapin at 1:49 PM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Mod note: One comment delete. Please avoid using "Nazi" lightly.
posted by loup (staff) at 2:01 PM on April 18, 2023
posted by loup (staff) at 2:01 PM on April 18, 2023
radar not being all that great a thing to integrate into an ADAS since you don't want false positives
If you're at the stage where you're saying "Actually, fewer sensors make it SAFER," then you might be drinking Elon's Kool-Aid. Radar and/or lidar are essential in helping cameras interpret if there is a physical object there, and every serious self-driving platform uses them ... except for Tesla. Because Elon demanded their removal.
posted by rikschell at 4:53 PM on April 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
If you're at the stage where you're saying "Actually, fewer sensors make it SAFER," then you might be drinking Elon's Kool-Aid. Radar and/or lidar are essential in helping cameras interpret if there is a physical object there, and every serious self-driving platform uses them ... except for Tesla. Because Elon demanded their removal.
posted by rikschell at 4:53 PM on April 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
iPod killed the portable CD Player not the mp3 player.
My Sony MiniDisc Player gently weeps.
posted by bendy at 5:11 PM on April 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
My Sony MiniDisc Player gently weeps.
posted by bendy at 5:11 PM on April 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Yuck, cars and trucks. Well, I'm gonna walk to the store.
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 9:41 AM on April 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 9:41 AM on April 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
You will never convince me that the cybertruck wasn't just some dumb bullshit Musk sketched while stoned, and will never be released to market.
--ryanrs
They just installed a 9,000-ton Giga Press, made specifically to punch out Cybertruck body parts. This isn't vaporware. It is a crazy design so who knows if it will ultimately be successful, but it is definitely coming, so we'll soon find out.
posted by eye of newt at 9:59 AM on April 19, 2023
--ryanrs
They just installed a 9,000-ton Giga Press, made specifically to punch out Cybertruck body parts. This isn't vaporware. It is a crazy design so who knows if it will ultimately be successful, but it is definitely coming, so we'll soon find out.
posted by eye of newt at 9:59 AM on April 19, 2023
Only reason I’m getting a bigass truck is to get as far away from other people as physically possible LOL
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 10:46 AM on April 19, 2023
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 10:46 AM on April 19, 2023
I’ve seen bumper stickers reading “I bought it before we found out how awful he is.”
Yeah, but: he was always awful.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 2:46 PM on April 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yeah, but: he was always awful.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 2:46 PM on April 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
The Tesla Truck seems like another Jeep Gladiator. The Gladiator had a great launch, strong initial sales drawing on its unique appearance and all those people who like the classic Jeep. Rather quickly though sales fell off as the broader truck buying public found the overall truck features lacking. The combat, tactical styling may not be able to keep the buyers there. For example North Face, ReI, Arcteryx and other outdoor brands spend a lot of energy making sure their jackets are used by real professionals. The consumer may not ever go on a real expedition, but they want the real gear. The same goes for trucks. Look at all those truck commercials, stereotypical guys doing manly shit, building/ hauling, roping cattle, etc. When you go to a construction job site you see a lot of trucks and vans built on truck platforms.
posted by interogative mood at 3:06 PM on April 19, 2023
posted by interogative mood at 3:06 PM on April 19, 2023
here is the cyber truck barely making it up a few-inch curb with ramps.
Link here.
posted by couchdive at 4:05 PM on April 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Link here.
posted by couchdive at 4:05 PM on April 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
yes but are they tesla-branded ramps
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:27 PM on April 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:27 PM on April 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Tesla just reported quarterly earnings and has dropped prices again on their cars. Their last price cut did not have the expected impact on sales. I think it’s a combination of the overall auto market suffering right now and the fact that Elon’s brand has taken a beating.
posted by interogative mood at 6:35 PM on April 19, 2023
posted by interogative mood at 6:35 PM on April 19, 2023
That's a real problem for Tesla. My neighbors don't have to live next to Elon Musk, but it's a different story if they would be forced to live next to some asshole who makes a positive choice to buy an Elon Musk car. The image problem is real.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 6:57 PM on April 19, 2023
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 6:57 PM on April 19, 2023
Yeah, and I've been wondering: at some point -- especially if he continues his current rightward trajectory -- Musk becomes more of a liability than an asset to Tesla as a brand. What happens then?
During the earnings call, Musk also said he thought Tesla’s autonomous driving software would be fully self-driving (FSD) this year – a claim he has made in years past.
Jam tomorrow.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 7:09 PM on April 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
During the earnings call, Musk also said he thought Tesla’s autonomous driving software would be fully self-driving (FSD) this year – a claim he has made in years past.
Jam tomorrow.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 7:09 PM on April 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yeah, and I've been wondering: at some point -- especially if he continues his current rightward trajectory -- Musk becomes more of a liability than an asset to Tesla as a brand. What happens then?
It sure looks like he has become more of a liability, but the "what then?" question seems unclear. The stock is up from its low point but way down from the top, so there are doubtless a lot of unhappy investors. They are dropping prices without creating a massive upsurge in sales, at least so far, and I'm not seeing this work as a strategy.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:25 PM on April 19, 2023
It sure looks like he has become more of a liability, but the "what then?" question seems unclear. The stock is up from its low point but way down from the top, so there are doubtless a lot of unhappy investors. They are dropping prices without creating a massive upsurge in sales, at least so far, and I'm not seeing this work as a strategy.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:25 PM on April 19, 2023
here is the cyber truck barely making it up a few-inch curb with ramps.
Part of it looks like maybe that's the only working one and they're extra careful not to go more than 2mph. That said, you too can go offroad in a Teslatruck, and you'll only need a staff of six to escort you on foot!
posted by rhizome at 8:30 PM on April 19, 2023
Part of it looks like maybe that's the only working one and they're extra careful not to go more than 2mph. That said, you too can go offroad in a Teslatruck, and you'll only need a staff of six to escort you on foot!
posted by rhizome at 8:30 PM on April 19, 2023
Starship just blew up during stage separation. Meanwhile NASA’s Artemis rocket went to the moon and back.
posted by interogative mood at 6:42 AM on April 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by interogative mood at 6:42 AM on April 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
SLS rocket. Artemis is the mission, like Saturn V rocket and Apollo mission. For a program designed to reuse so much shuttle (and older) technology and even reuse and expend actual shuttle hardware, SLS is pretty far from a resounding success.
Musk is an irredeemable fuckwit. It can still be okay to root for Shotwell and SpaceX though.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 7:56 AM on April 20, 2023
Musk is an irredeemable fuckwit. It can still be okay to root for Shotwell and SpaceX though.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 7:56 AM on April 20, 2023
Musk is an irredeemable fuckwit. It can still be okay to root for Shotwell and SpaceX though.
Nah, not after Shotwell fired whistleblowers calling out conditions at SpaceX in order to suck up to her boss.
posted by NoxAeternum at 5:50 PM on April 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
Nah, not after Shotwell fired whistleblowers calling out conditions at SpaceX in order to suck up to her boss.
posted by NoxAeternum at 5:50 PM on April 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
If all cars are self driving and they only kill 20.000 people a year, it's still an improvement.
posted by Jacen at 7:13 PM on April 20, 2023
posted by Jacen at 7:13 PM on April 20, 2023
Do the cars incur any liability in that eventuality?
Yes, Mercedes is the only manufacturer with level 3 self driving certification right now, and they accept full legal liability for any accidents that occur.
posted by xdvesper at 7:51 AM on April 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Yes, Mercedes is the only manufacturer with level 3 self driving certification right now, and they accept full legal liability for any accidents that occur.
posted by xdvesper at 7:51 AM on April 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Wasn't musks big feature with FSD, is that is disables itself and hands back control to the driver like 1 or 2 seconds before the crash, so they can say its the drivers fault.
In the inside videos you can hear the bing bong sound of it turning FSD off,.
posted by Iax at 7:26 PM on April 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
In the inside videos you can hear the bing bong sound of it turning FSD off,.
posted by Iax at 7:26 PM on April 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
« Older robbery was quick, quiet, & clean, &... | How to Beat Superhuman AIs Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by Mister Moofoo at 4:46 PM on April 17, 2023 [32 favorites]