Zooey Zephyr, Montana legislator, banned from floor

April 26, 2023 8:03 PM

Montana G.O.P. Bars Transgender Lawmaker From House Floor - New York Times (ghostarchive.org)
posted by buffy12 (74 comments total)

Her "blood on your hands" speech hit too close to home and they don't want to take the chance of having to be told something that they don't like again.

She's still being allowed to participate remotely, so the people she represents can't sue. But maybe a clever lawyer can figure out an angle and sue despite that. Because, paraphrasing Nina Simone... Montana GODDAM
posted by hippybear at 8:14 PM on April 26, 2023 [46 favorites]

She is, of course, absolutely correct.
posted by Artw at 8:17 PM on April 26, 2023 [38 favorites]

"Haha, that'll show those woke libs!" I yell while I repeatedly punch myself in the nuts.
posted by chasing at 8:18 PM on April 26, 2023 [10 favorites]

Ah, the "LA LA LA WE'RE NOT LISTENING" tactic. Because it worked so well at elementary school.
posted by How much is that froggie in the window at 9:01 PM on April 26, 2023 [6 favorites]

What are the other Democrats doing to support her? Are they fighting for her? She is brave and speaking truths and should not have to do so alone, but the article makes it seem like she is.
posted by Mizu at 9:30 PM on April 26, 2023 [41 favorites]

People who refuse to make any gun control do indeed have some layers of blood on their hands. As do people who encourage violence against anyone. Especially the most vulnerable minorities.
posted by Jacen at 9:41 PM on April 26, 2023 [9 favorites]

Sensing a very strong Streisand effect here. Like before I had never heard of this legislator. And now, she has an ever expanding national platform and supporters.

Good.
posted by Toddles at 9:51 PM on April 26, 2023 [33 favorites]

Well, unlike Mefi's own swift, Ms. Zephyr did 'zi this one coming. These times are fashy all the way down.
posted by y2karl at 10:06 PM on April 26, 2023 [4 favorites]

What are the other Democrats doing to support her? Are they fighting for her? She is brave and speaking truths and should not have to do so alone, but the article makes it seem like she is.

The Post has a longer and generally better article on this (plus supplemental coverage), including various quotes from other Democrats, such as:

Monday’s protest earned praise from Democrats this week, including Abbott, Montana’s House minority leader.

“To me, it’s an incredible statement in support of the trans, nonbinary and Two Spirit community — and against the Republican agenda that would strip our neighbors of their basic rights, dignity and humanity,” Abbott said in a statement.

The Republican behavior is so fucking egregious I can't believe other Democrats are doing enough, even as I can't imagine what "enough" would even be in this situation.
posted by mark k at 10:20 PM on April 26, 2023 [28 favorites]

Given how much the NY Times has contributed to making transphobia respectable, it feels like maybe they're not the best people to read about over the issue.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 11:04 PM on April 26, 2023 [66 favorites]

We need to stop playing, and start getting as serious as the opposition. No more assuming that acting in good faith will get good faith in return. I want conservative ideas, thought, and organising to start banned by law. If it's good for the goose...
posted by Dysk at 11:06 PM on April 26, 2023 [18 favorites]

Decades of the left not taking the right seriously has lead to creeping fascism that has disenfranchised voters.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:36 PM on April 26, 2023 [13 favorites]

I can't imagine what "enough" would even be in this situation

They could take this chance to each make the "blood on their hands" statement and dare the Republicans to ban them all. Either way, the message gets sent, and it's an important one, especially given the hypocrisy of "pro life" messaging.

Speaking of hypocrisy, these things are never referred to as cancellation or cancel culture
posted by trig at 11:44 PM on April 26, 2023 [51 favorites]

Those fragile GOP snowflakes need their legislative chamber to be a safe place.
posted by straight at 1:39 AM on April 27, 2023 [18 favorites]

NB - The population of the state of Montana is roughly half the size of the city of Corpus Christi, Texas. MT is also slightly smaller than Shasta county, California.
posted by zaixfeep at 2:51 AM on April 27, 2023 [4 favorites]

The fascism has stopped creeping and started sprinting.
posted by entropone at 3:53 AM on April 27, 2023 [18 favorites]

The fascism has stopped creeping and started sprinting.

Between attempting to legislate trans people (and trans legislators) out of existence, the fiasco with "the Justins," Chief Justice John Roberts not even paying lip service to any form of accountability, straight up banning black history, ubiquitous open carry, teacher-led prayers in public institutions, and so on, it's clear that the GOP is in full cornered-rodent mode. We're not going to just tweet toot ourselves out of this mess.
posted by xigxag at 4:33 AM on April 27, 2023 [24 favorites]

Wtf is this fuckery
posted by subdee at 4:42 AM on April 27, 2023 [3 favorites]

Sarah Jones: Will Democrats Fight for Trans People? The party can’t cede an important civil-rights issue to conservatives.

Liberals have an uneasy relationship with progress at times. Social change can outpace them, leading Democratic allies to cry out for caution. Democrats should “put a lid on the culture-war stuff,” said the liberal political scientist Ruy Teixeira in 2020, after Democrats defeated Trump but came up short of expectations for Congress. Though consultant James Carville told Vox in 2021 that “wokeness,” broadly defined, “is a problem and everyone knows it,” he sounded more moderate in a later interview. All that “unifies” Republicans now is “cultural resentment — ‘Let’s all attack the trans kid’ or ‘We shouldn’t tell seventh-graders there are gay people because then they’ll never know,’” he told the Washington Post this year. As Republicans bet on resentment, however, the Democratic Party’s response can seem muted, even fearful. Early this month, the Biden administration proposed a Title IX rule change that would allow public-school districts “to block some transgender athletes from competing on sports teams that match their gender identities,” the New York Times reported. The administration also wants to block blanket bans on trans-student athletes, but its equivocation disappointed trans-rights advocates.
[. . .]
As the Republican base pulls further to the far right, it pulls away, too, from the average American voter. Hate can rally conservatives, but those who peddle it don’t speak for most people. There’s hope, still, that we could be a different kind of country. The transformation that the right fears — that society will one day fully accept trans people — is not here yet. It will take work, and some time, before it is realized. Democrats will have to decide whether they are partners in that effort or not. The choice should be easy.

posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 5:03 AM on April 27, 2023 [12 favorites]

Jeet Heer: Democrats Can Win on Trans Issues—but Only if They Fight. Though culture war bigotry loses at the ballot box, centrist Democrats have been too quick to surrender.

The good news is that the reactionary right is a minority. The bad news is that the reactionary right has a key ally in the form of centrist liberals—particularly those of the older generation who don’t realize how public opinion has shifted on this. In 2019, Michael Bloomberg, gearing up for his unsuccessful bid to buy the Democratic Party’s presidential nomination, told a forum of businessmen that “if you go to the middle of the country, people would say, if your conversation during a presidential election is about some guy wearing a dress and whether he, she or it can go to the locker room with their daughter, that’s not a winning formula for most people.” In a 2022 interview before the midterms, Hillary Clinton, another unsuccessful candidate, responded to a question about trans rights by saying, “We are standing on the precipice of losing our democracy, and everything that everybody else cares about then goes out the window.”

While Joe Biden has a better record on supporting trans rights than Bloomberg or Clinton, there are worrying signs that his White House might also be susceptible to the false idea that transphobia needs to be appeased. On Thursday, The Washington Post reported: “The Biden administration on Thursday proposed new regulations that would allow schools to bar transgender athletes from participating in competitive high school and college sports, but disallow blanket bans on the athletes that have been approved across the country.” This regulation seems like a Clintonian attempt to triangulate between the Democratic base (which supports trans rights) and transphobic Republicans. It has the earmarks of White House Chief of Staff Jeff Zients, a centrist who loves this sort of pointless and counterproductive compromise.

This whole strategy rests on the premise that transphobia is popular enough to be placated. But there’s little reason to think so. Further, attempted triangulation will only demoralize the majority of voters who support Democrats—on not just trans rights but also marriage equality and abortion rights. It risks creating the justified impression that Democrats are willing to back down from a fight about fundamental rights. Such compromises are both morally dubious and politically foolish.

posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 5:06 AM on April 27, 2023 [22 favorites]

MT is also slightly smaller than Shasta county, California.

Montana does have a small population compared to its size— but it is the next largest state after California— so quite a bit bigger than Shasta County.

Having worked for a number of years in that state, it is infuriating to see this turn of events.
posted by profreader at 5:15 AM on April 27, 2023 [5 favorites]

Meanwhile, in Nebraska,

A Nebraska state lawmaker and mother to a trans child is being formally investigated over a potential conflict of interest for opposing restrictions on gender-affirming care for minors... because she has a son who is transgender and could receive a financial benefit. (WaPo, may be paywalled)

So, Republican lawmakers across the country are looking at the widespread condemnation the expulsion shenanigans in Tennessee received, and saying, "hey, we want a piece of that," I guess?

(FWIW, the Nebraska complaint seems to be from a private party, not the state legislature itself, and every actual legislator interviewed in the story, including Republicans, seems to be saying, "this is dumb bullshit," but apparently the complaint was not summarily dismissed by the Nebraska Accountability and Disclosure Commission, so it still looks like officially-sanctioned harassment.)
posted by jackbishop at 5:18 AM on April 27, 2023 [7 favorites]

NB - The population of the state of Montana is roughly half the size of the city of Corpus Christi, Texas. MT is also slightly smaller than Shasta county, California.

Does "NB"stand for the Latin for "Neither relevant nor accurate"? It does not.
posted by BReed at 6:06 AM on April 27, 2023 [11 favorites]

What are the other Democrats doing to support her?

In the House itself, not much because the Republicans have a supermajority, and they are outvoted on party lines. They have, of course, protested, and tried to get her reinstated. She has at least gotten her voting rights back, albeit outside the floor.

From the people themselves, I think she's getting a lot of support. There were at least 300 people at the rally, which is quite a good turnout for something that was explicitly kept off social media to avoid attracting unwanted attention.

After the rally, (I had to go to work and didn't stay for this part) people went to the gallery and chanted "Let her speak" when the Speaker refused to recognize her. He then tried to clear the gallery and several people who resisted were arrested. Laughably, they've been trying to frame this as a "riot" but up to the gallery incident, the whole thing was peaceful.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:07 AM on April 27, 2023 [12 favorites]

The population of the state of Montana is roughly half the size of the city of Corpus Christi, Texas. MT is also slightly smaller than Shasta county, California.

And since they all have 2 US Senators, a Montana voter, in a way, has 30 times the power of a Californian voter, and 22 times that of a Texan's.

(MT registered voters - 740,000, CA = 22,000,000 , TX 16,000,000)
posted by achrise at 6:25 AM on April 27, 2023 [14 favorites]

Oh, it's also worth noting that banning Zooey from the House floor is far from the worst thing this legislature has done. To quote from a recent editorial (by Democratic legislators)

The current legislative session has proven we are no longer maintaining our role as the Last Best Place, but rather:

“The Worst Place to Pick on Queer Kids” (SB 99)

“The Worst Place to Tell Parents How to Parent” (HB 359)

“The Worst Place to Imprison Teachers” (HB 234)

“The Worst Place to Politicize the Independent Judiciary” (SB 302, SB 154)

“The Worst Place to Find an Available Nursing Home” (GOP axed increased funding for HB 649)

“The Worst Place to Strip Cities and Towns of their Funding and Autonomy” (HB 865)

“The Worst Place to Find Affordable Housing” (GOP voted down HB 574, SB 194, HB 233)

“The Worst Place to Suffer from Mental Health Issues” (GOP removed funding from HB 649)

“The Worst Place to Be Left in the Dark on Environmental Impacts (HB 971 and SB 557)

posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:41 AM on April 27, 2023 [14 favorites]

If President Biden is going to be supportive on trans issues, he's going to have to meet with her now.
posted by Flight Hardware, do not touch at 6:51 AM on April 27, 2023 [11 favorites]

Laughably, they've been trying to frame this as a "riot" but up to the gallery incident, the whole thing was peaceful.

They're also saying "insurrection" a lot, because they know that defining that downward means they get to say "How come you want the January 6 patriots in prison but not these people? Checkmate, libs."
posted by Etrigan at 6:59 AM on April 27, 2023 [14 favorites]

Just a quick look at the statistics of religious belief by age/generation and also by rural/urban tells me we're in for ~10 years of civil disorder. Banning Zephyr from the floor is a sign of real weakness, but the godbags will let go of what they have left of control when we pry it from their cold, dead hands.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 7:01 AM on April 27, 2023

Just a quick look at the statistics of religious belief by age/generation and also by rural/urban tells me we're in for ~10 years of civil disorder.

I genuinely hate to break it to you but evidence from countries outside the US suggests that lack of interest in religion does not imply lack of support for fascism.
posted by plonkee at 7:05 AM on April 27, 2023 [16 favorites]

The population of the state of Montana is roughly half the size of the city of Corpus Christi, Texas. MT is also slightly smaller than Shasta county, California.

This is wildly incorrect. It's so wrong that I can't even think of what place would actually match the description. Anyhow, real numbers:

Population
Corpus Christi: 317K
Montana: 1.1M

Area
Shasta County: 3847 sq mi
Montana: 147,070 sq mi
posted by Mister Fabulous at 7:18 AM on April 27, 2023 [33 favorites]

I genuinely hate to break it to you but evidence from countries outside the US suggests that lack of interest in religion does not imply lack of support for fascism.

I'm not talking about outside the US; I'm talking about within. Not sure where you got that impression. Religious belief in the US is super skewed by age and by population density: young urban people are effectively entirely secular, while rural older people almost uniformly religious.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 7:33 AM on April 27, 2023 [1 favorite]

Religious belief in the US is super skewed by age and by population density: young urban people are effectively entirely secular, while rural older people almost uniformly religious

The reason the fascists are framing their anti-LGBTQ agenda as "protecting the children" is that while it's obviously motivated by the more bigoted forms of christianity, they know that overtly trying to impose a theocracy is a non-starter.
posted by Gelatin at 8:12 AM on April 27, 2023 [5 favorites]

For Montana, every single Democrat in the house needs to reiterate Zooey Zephyr's words verbatim and dare them to ban the entire caucus from the house.

GOP delenda est.
posted by tclark at 8:20 AM on April 27, 2023 [16 favorites]

The reason the fascists are framing their anti-LGBTQ agenda as "protecting the children" is that while it's obviously motivated by the more bigoted forms of christianity, they know that overtly trying to impose a theocracy is a non-starter.

It's also notable that they're having to go after trans people, because regular old gay people are way more popular than the godbags are. They're trying to claim that regular gay people are "grooming" kids, but it's easy to show that it's youth pastors who are grooming kids for rape, so that one's not working, either.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 8:24 AM on April 27, 2023 [12 favorites]

She's banned from the chamber but not the building, so: Rep. Zephyr set up on a bench outside the chamber.

(The post-it note marked "Seat 31" is for the seat she would occupy in the chamber were she allowed in.)

This is transphobic bullshit, and was celebrated by the "Montana Freedom Caucus", aka the Most MAGA Melonheads in Montana in a press release. They also misgendered her in the release, called it an "ego trip by Rep. Zephyr to gain media attention", and said they "look forward to getting back to the critical work for which Montanans elected us", which is apparently being professional transphobes, homophobes, and wannabe theocrats.

(full disclosure: I am trans and I follow Rep. Zephyr's girlfriend, Erin Reed, on Twitter and Substack.)
posted by mephron at 8:28 AM on April 27, 2023 [30 favorites]

Dems trying to triangulate or outflank Republicans on this is a real fear, especially given how TERF riddled the opinion column set is and how beholden to them the senior party leadership is. I think the GOP has gone so far so fast it’s impossible for some genius level political consultant to suggest catching up with them, but I wouldn’t rule it out.
posted by Artw at 8:48 AM on April 27, 2023 [4 favorites]

The governor of Montana's son is gay, and apparently he tried to convince ye olde dad not to support these anti LGBTQ bills. Fur gawds sakes even that ghoul Cheney came around when it directly affected his family.

Also, the bravery of this representative is humbling.
posted by bluesky43 at 8:50 AM on April 27, 2023 [22 favorites]

Last night, Zooey Zephyr went on MSNBC along with Justin Jones of Tennessee and Maxwell Frost of New York, who both insisted that solidarity was a necessity to combat fascism.

Obviously it would be better if they didn't need to do this at all. But at least young Democrats understand what's at stake.
posted by mightygodking at 9:06 AM on April 27, 2023 [44 favorites]

"Cornered rodent mode" is right on the nose. Except each one has a bag of grenades.

They're being swept aside by progress and demographics, they know it, and they'll burn it all down on the way out, out of fear and spite.
posted by gottabefunky at 9:15 AM on April 27, 2023 [2 favorites]

The MSNBC segment is absolutely absolutely fabulous. I am so grateful to these brave people.
posted by bluesky43 at 9:34 AM on April 27, 2023 [3 favorites]

It's both inspiring and depressing to see state-level Dems in so many places doing amazing, courageous work and then comparing that to the national party.
posted by an octopus IRL at 10:21 AM on April 27, 2023 [7 favorites]

to paraphrase michael knowles

For the good of society … the Republican Party must be eradicated from public life entirely — the whole preposterous ideology, at every level.

posted by i used to be someone else at 11:41 AM on April 27, 2023 [10 favorites]

How come hysterical free-speech posturing is owned by Republicans? “Republicans are coming for your freedoms, Americans! They want you to sit down and shut up. Republicans want to be in your bedrooms, they want to be in your doctor’s office and they want to control what your children hear, read and learn. They’re coming for all of you.”
posted by amanda at 12:00 PM on April 27, 2023 [7 favorites]

For the good of society … the Republican Party must be eradicated from public life entirely — the whole preposterous ideology, at every level.

Since authoritarian reactionaries are using similar language about "eradicating trans ideology" to provide deniable dog-whistles to their supporters can we please avoid giving them cover by normalizing such language?

As a preferred option, I suggest talking about discrediting their ideology. Something that ought to have a right to exist can still be eradicated by those determined to destroy it, but something that was correct to begin with can't be discredited.
posted by Nerd of the North at 12:02 PM on April 27, 2023

Republicans since at least Reagan have pretended to be the party of freedom. Before Trump and his ilk, they were always on about freedom this, freedom that, keep government out of our private lives. Freedom consistently polls well across all demographics in the US.

The Republicans have given that up, now. They want big government meddling in every last aspect of life. They want government telling you what books you can and can't read, who you're allowed to love, what sort of medical care you're allowed to get, what sports you can play.

This is an excellent time to take back the message of freedom. The leadership of the Democratic party is largely corrupt and are enemies of most things good, but the party generally has some decent members and I think they should rally behind brave people like Zoey and take back freedom, both rhetorically and in reality.
posted by abucci at 12:06 PM on April 27, 2023 [10 favorites]

Since authoritarian reactionaries are using similar language about "eradicating trans ideology" to provide deniable dog-whistles to their supporters can we please avoid giving them cover by normalizing such language?

i fully admit to using megalian-style mirroring here but like, they've already normalized this language against people like me. they're busy trying to limit access across the board to our health care, access to safe spaces, they're slurring us as predators and monsters, and they've found common links with columnists in "liberal" and "centrist" op-ed boards here and across the pond.

fuck decorum.

the republican party already has blood on their hands; i don't think it's beyond the pale to point out that it is a vile, hateful ideology that is inimical to democracy and liberty and to literally quote one of their noisemakers/propagandists.
posted by i used to be someone else at 12:11 PM on April 27, 2023 [20 favorites]

I pity them for getting in her way. She's pretty formidable.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:22 PM on April 27, 2023 [2 favorites]

like, i get it if you want to take a gentler route. i don't have that generosity in me anymore. i don't believe in the "when they go low we go high" pablum.

i get not wanting to legitimize their rhetoric. but it already has been, as far as i see, across entire swaths of the public.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by i used to be someone else at 12:25 PM on April 27, 2023 [11 favorites]

I genuinely hate to break it to you but evidence from countries outside the US suggests that lack of interest in religion does not imply lack of support for fascism.

I'm not talking about outside the US; I'm talking about within. Not sure where you got that impression. Religious belief in the US is super skewed by age and by population density: young urban people are effectively entirely secular, while rural older people almost uniformly religious.

I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I understand how the religious belief is skewed in the US. I'm saying that secular people can be and often are just as fascist as religious people. You should not assume that becoming demographically less religious also means becoming more liberal/progressive, especially in relation to trans rights.
posted by plonkee at 12:26 PM on April 27, 2023 [8 favorites]

mark k: “The Republican behavior is so fucking egregious I can't believe other Democrats are doing enough, even as I can't imagine what "enough" would even be in this situation.”

Enough is shut it down. Nothing happens there ever again until the fascists are removed from office. Pull the fire alarm if you have to.
posted by ob1quixote at 12:32 PM on April 27, 2023 [4 favorites]

For Montana, every single Democrat in the house needs to reiterate Zooey Zephyr's words verbatim and dare them to ban the entire caucus from the house.

I mean... do you think they won't?

Maybe that's a beneficial outcome; I'm not going to pretend to know the answer to that. But I don't put anything past the Republicans (also, an aside, can we finally stop with the cutesy "GOP"?)
posted by rhymedirective at 1:22 PM on April 27, 2023 [5 favorites]

This is fascism, and the only way to fight it is through voter registration and voting in every single election regardless of the stakes.

GO REGISTER VOTERS!
posted by ivanthenotsoterrible at 1:23 PM on April 27, 2023 [2 favorites]

... *is* the only way to fight fascism through Get Out the Vote? I mean, I like your spirit; but based on what's going on in the post and what people have been describing as happening in parallel, it doesn't sound like they'll see "overwhelming vote against us" as a block.

They're calling for trans people & trans-affirming doctors to be killed in the street & are asserting the support of police in their project. Who do you think is going to go "But we don't have the votes" in that?
posted by CrystalDave at 1:33 PM on April 27, 2023 [13 favorites]

This is fascism, and the only way to fight it is through voter registration and voting in every single election regardless of the stakes.

I'm not sure if this is the usual "VOTE HARDER" nonsense or a very dry parody of it.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 1:43 PM on April 27, 2023 [12 favorites]

Maybe if I register as transgender I get two votes? I'm pretty sure I can talk the sovereign citizens to believe it. Maybe that's why they hate us so much?
posted by Jacen at 1:46 PM on April 27, 2023 [1 favorite]

*is* the only way to fight fascism through Get Out the Vote?

Also strongly worded letters


And stern finger wagging
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:55 PM on April 27, 2023 [2 favorites]

Monday’s protest earned praise from Democrats this week, including Abbott, Montana’s House minority leader.
So, they continue to tread the line between being able to say they defended their colleague and not upsetting their opponents lest they become the next target?

...every single Democrat in the house needs to reiterate Zooey Zephyr's words verbatim and dare them to ban the entire caucus from the house.
This, or something equally strong, is the only acceptable response to this bullshit. Make them ban so many that they wouldn't achieve a quorum (if that's even possible).
posted by dg at 5:12 PM on April 27, 2023 [5 favorites]

How come hysterical free-speech posturing is owned by Republicans?

Because it's just that, posturing, and you can't beat them by joining them.
posted by klanawa at 6:16 PM on April 27, 2023 [1 favorite]

Well, the Republicans in the Montana House have 68 seats to the Democrats 32. It's a supermajority, and certainly a quorum.
posted by hippybear at 6:25 PM on April 27, 2023 [2 favorites]

This is fascism, and the only way to fight it is through voter registration and voting in every single election regardless of the stakes.

GO REGISTER VOTERS!

What’s funny about this is that the only way fascism has ever been defeated was a massive war
posted by rhymedirective at 7:26 PM on April 27, 2023 [3 favorites]

I'm unclear exactly what people are expecting the Democrats in the Montana House to do that is at all meaningful. They can take a lot of maneuvers that will get recorded into the official record. They could possibly do some protests but there's already an example of someone being removed...

What would be gained if they continued protests to the point where they were all removed? This house session is ending on May 10, so they could do all kinds of things that receive retaliation that are subsequently proven illegal, but that doesn't mean they go back and redo the legislative session.

I would love, adore, widely broadcast, and help support any ideas of actions that can be taken that aren't extralegal that halts a congressional chamber that is so heavily toward one side. We need serious strategizing about how to neuter all these actions that are being taken. That one congressperson has been doing a filibuster in her state chamber -- is that still going on? That's one. What else can be done?

I'd rather see this stuff neutered in really creative ways than with violence.
posted by hippybear at 8:00 PM on April 27, 2023 [2 favorites]

based on what's going on in the post and what people have been describing as happening in parallel, it doesn't sound like they'll see "overwhelming vote against us" as a block.

They're calling for trans people & trans-affirming doctors to be killed in the street & are asserting the support of police in their project. Who do you think is going to go "But we don't have the votes" in that?

I mean there's a reason this is happening in Montana's legislature but not Michigan's. Institutional power matters a lot.

What’s funny about this is that the only way fascism has ever been defeated was a massive war

This is, historically speaking, nonsense. It's not even been true after fascists gain power in a country and certainly not before.
posted by mark k at 10:47 PM on April 27, 2023 [2 favorites]

> What’s funny about this is that the only way fascism has ever been defeated was a massive war

I feel like this is a statement that depends heavily on what you define as fascism. For example, there wasn't a massive war in Spain marking the transition out of Francoist rule.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 11:29 PM on April 27, 2023 [8 favorites]

If you're someone that already votes consistently, then those calls to vote are not for you. They're for the huge chunk of the population that CAN easily vote but simply doesn't.

Everyone else should hear that as a call to get anyone they know that isn't voting to get the hell out and do the thing and nothing is stopping you for doing more. Heck you can even vote, run for office, knock on doors and all that and STILL plot some kind of coup at night (non-violent if you can, please).

To me, voting is the bare minimum participation you owe to your fellow citizens and I hate that most people don't bother to clear that bar while other folks fight tooth and nail to do it.

But I can't make everyone change their minds all at once so here we are.
posted by VTX at 7:06 AM on April 28, 2023 [4 favorites]

> I'm unclear exactly what people are expecting the Democrats in the Montana House to do that is at all meaningful. They can take a lot of maneuvers that will get recorded into the official record. They could possibly do some protests but there's already an example of someone being removed...

What would be gained if they continued protests to the point where they were all removed? This house session is ending on May 10, so they could do all kinds of things that receive retaliation that are subsequently proven illegal, but that doesn't mean they go back and redo the legislative session.

The Montana Repubs already have a supermajority, so the Dems can't stop any retaliation anyway. What's to lose by every Dem not taking a stand for their trans colleague and all trans folk statewide... except, you know, LGBTIQ+ support statewide for Dems when they wouldn't even make the effort and capitulated? Call the Repub's bluff, protest, and run on their retaliation.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 8:49 AM on April 28, 2023 [1 favorite]

<sup>Pardon my derail. I posted a comment up top in this discussion which has been rightly called out as absurdly wrong. MT's population is slightly smaller than the city of Dallas TX. Not the whole metroplex, just Dallas. I regret my error and the sloppiness of my research and flagged my comment for deletion a few hours later.

My intent was to imply how few votes were needed per district to put these bad actors into such outsized levels of power.

Thank you for reading. End of derail.</sup>
posted by zaixfeep at 1:34 PM on April 28, 2023

Earlier today, with video clips:
Erin Reed @ErinInTheMorn: Y'all, a massive crowd has descended on Missoula, Montana - home of my loving partner, Representative Zephyr - to proclaim that they will not be silenced.

The event is expected to grow in the coming hours.

They've woken a movement in Montana.

Erin Reed @ErinInTheMorn: They thought they would silence representative Zephyr, and democracy itself. But democracy doesn't die that easily. Queer people and those who love us do not go silently.

And now, she is walking out onto the stage in Missoula Montana.

Incredible.
posted by Iris Gambol at 9:40 PM on April 28, 2023 [4 favorites]

Fox News Poll: 86% Say Political Attacks On Trans Kids Are A Problem
posted by Artw at 7:50 AM on April 29, 2023 [1 favorite]

*is* the only way to fight fascism through Get Out the Vote?

- Also strongly worded letters And stern finger wagging

This is a bad-faith comparison. We didn't get Trump out in 2020 by dismissing voting as ineffectual and sneering at people who suggested it. It happened because people did the work and got voters registered and engaged.

To answer the top question: of course GOTV isn't the *only* thing. But it is a necessary thing.

I respect the frustration of people who live in gerrymandered Red states, but the fight needs to continue in those states as well. The alternative is abandoning people like Rep. Zephyr and the Tennessee Two.
posted by Pallas Athena at 2:14 PM on April 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

I’m shocked that this is legal. I’m probably late to the story but still shocked.
posted by bendy at 10:24 PM on April 30, 2023 [1 favorite]

Updates:

1. After being censured, Rep Zephyr worked on a bench outside of the house floor last week.
2. The Republicans, who are members of a party whose preposterous ideology must be eradicated at every level from public life, cancelled legislation from every committee she is a part of.
3. Today, the Rep Zephyr and the ACLU have filed a lawsuit challenging her censure and the behavior of the Speaker of the House Regier, who is a Republican (as I mentioned before and emphasize again, Regier is a member of a party whose preposterous ideology must be eradicated at every level from public life)
4. Several conservative women activists decided today to spend their time sitting on the bench Rep Zephyr was using as a means of denying her a location to work.

posted by i used to be someone else at 2:45 PM on May 1, 2023 [7 favorites]

Several conservative women activists decided today to spend their time sitting on the bench Rep Zephyr was using as a means of denying her a location to work.

Republicans: when they’re not busy being genocidal truly they are pettiest, most small minded fucks on the face of the planet.
posted by Artw at 7:14 PM on May 1, 2023 [11 favorites]

Man, but the fashy is strong in that thread.
posted by y2karl at 3:41 PM on May 11, 2023