“It’s better than nothing”
May 3, 2023 6:44 AM Subscribe
The Stopgap is a new website edited by Danny M. Lavery and Jo Livingstone. The two editors were interviewed by Laura Hazard Owen about their idea for the site and it’s future.
aw yeah.
posted by Ten Cold Hot Dogs at 7:07 AM on May 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Ten Cold Hot Dogs at 7:07 AM on May 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
also, are signups for commenting working for anyone? i don't get a popup or anything when hitting the link
posted by Ten Cold Hot Dogs at 7:09 AM on May 3, 2023
posted by Ten Cold Hot Dogs at 7:09 AM on May 3, 2023
I also got no response from the sign-up link, and considering there's flood of responses from Toasties, I'm guessing it's a general issue.
posted by EvaDestruction at 7:45 AM on May 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by EvaDestruction at 7:45 AM on May 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
I feel like I should have an opinion about this.
posted by stopgap at 8:47 AM on May 3, 2023 [22 favorites]
posted by stopgap at 8:47 AM on May 3, 2023 [22 favorites]
I knew if we let the destruction of media go on for long enough, someone would invent the blog!
posted by babelfish at 8:53 AM on May 3, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by babelfish at 8:53 AM on May 3, 2023 [7 favorites]
"Stately pleasure barge" is a lovely metaphor for a website, and I wish them well.
posted by praemunire at 9:13 AM on May 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by praemunire at 9:13 AM on May 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
I was just thinking the other day of posting an Ask to see where Toasties hang out these days, and then this popped up on the bird site today. Yes!!
posted by atlantica at 9:49 AM on May 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by atlantica at 9:49 AM on May 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
Um, what is going on here? Doesn't look like much?
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:23 AM on May 3, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:23 AM on May 3, 2023 [4 favorites]
It's an early blog, jenfullmoon; maybe read the post introducing the editors, linked in the main mefi post?
I mean, what else would it be?
posted by sagc at 10:26 AM on May 3, 2023
I mean, what else would it be?
posted by sagc at 10:26 AM on May 3, 2023
Looked back in to see if the sign-up issue was fixed and now the links appear to be gone entirely, but the promised post on housemaid's coffee is up, and it's certainly a thing.
posted by EvaDestruction at 12:27 PM on May 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by EvaDestruction at 12:27 PM on May 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
I recommend reading the post on Housemaid's Coffee, though not the coffee itself.
posted by tommasz at 12:44 PM on May 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by tommasz at 12:44 PM on May 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
That post about “housemaid’s coffee” is really interesting. I found a snippet of an interview with M. John Harrison who confirms that this is a reference to Colette.
I also looked at the French original, and unless my poor French is deceiving me, the original recipe is a lot more reasonable sounding than in translation. Also, it’s “café au lait de concierge”, or “janitor’s milky coffee”. Here’s the relevant paragraph in French:
posted by Kattullus at 1:14 PM on May 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
I also looked at the French original, and unless my poor French is deceiving me, the original recipe is a lot more reasonable sounding than in translation. Also, it’s “café au lait de concierge”, or “janitor’s milky coffee”. Here’s the relevant paragraph in French:
La mère et le fils venaient de prendre ensemble leur petit déjeuner et Chéri avait daigné saluer de quelques blasphèmes flatteurs son "café au lait de concierge", un café au lait gras, blond et sucré que l'on confiait une seconde fois à un feu doux de braise, après y avoir rompu des tartines grillées et beurrées qui recuisaient à loisir et masquaient le café d'une croûte succulente.I’m tickled that a translation artifact, “housemaid’s coffee”, was replicated by one author in a book, and then a third tried to bring it into reality.
posted by Kattullus at 1:14 PM on May 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
Um, what is going on here? Doesn't look like much?
Probably helpful to know who Danny Lavery is - he was one of the founding editors of Metafilter-favorite The Toast and since then has written several Metafilter-favorite books. He has a relatively small but VERY dedicated fanbase, much of which is here.
posted by lunasol at 1:51 PM on May 3, 2023 [4 favorites]
Probably helpful to know who Danny Lavery is - he was one of the founding editors of Metafilter-favorite The Toast and since then has written several Metafilter-favorite books. He has a relatively small but VERY dedicated fanbase, much of which is here.
posted by lunasol at 1:51 PM on May 3, 2023 [4 favorites]
That... is a pretty harsh take in my opinion? If I understand this correctly Lavery and Livingstone aren't paying themselves so I feel like having a blog and sometimes having guest posts is not necessarily unethical? Nobody has to guest blog there... The idea that you can't have a website without running it for profit and having a business model to support it sounds ridiculous to me...
Perhaps a more nuanced critique is that Lavery (And Livingstone? I don't know them) has been very successful and should be compensating writers on any personal project of his but I think calling guestblogs slave labor is not useful or accurate.
posted by Wretch729 at 5:27 PM on May 3, 2023 [5 favorites]
Perhaps a more nuanced critique is that Lavery (And Livingstone? I don't know them) has been very successful and should be compensating writers on any personal project of his but I think calling guestblogs slave labor is not useful or accurate.
posted by Wretch729 at 5:27 PM on May 3, 2023 [5 favorites]
The "for the attention/for the exposure" approach is NOT a viable business approach.
Okay, but it's not...for attention/the exposure? At least, it's for attention in the same way most everything posted for public consumption is. It's for fun. The internet used to be full of random shit that was just for fun, that one or two people ran, and maybe they'd shake the can for some cash to pay hosting fees every so often or whatever, but they were blogs and websites that had no pretense of professionalization or being part of a portfolio or being a side hustle or marketing for some other thing. They were just...for fun. Even professional writers can write for free, for fun.
However, Lavery specifically says, "I do value amateurism (as distinct from amateurishness) and enjoyment immensely, and share your sense that they’re worth championing. We’ve talked about this in a few interviews, so I don’t want to belabor the point, but after seeing so many websites disappear/fold/lay staff off over the last few years, I’ve found the internet a more dispiriting, less interesting place than it had been."
Writing doesn't need to be reserved for professional contexts. Speaking as an amateur writer myself, I do not in fact have any strong desire to become a professional writer. I have no desire to submit an essay or short story or what have you to an outlet that will pay for it. I'm not interested in running a whole-ass blog on my own. I, and people like me, might however be interested in writing up some random thing that catches my interest and posting that on a website--a weblog, if you will--where other people might be interested in reading it and commenting upon it! Perhaps I would like to share something that is the so-called best of the web! Wait, that sounds familiar--[looks down at the bottom of this very webpage]--ah.
You are on a blog that sources contributions from other people, for free, at this very moment. All The Stopgap is doing is adding an additional layer of curation in the form of editors--both of whom also contribute themselves, for free--rather than mods who approve every post that doesn't violate the guidelines.
Every single website does not need to be monetized and professionalized, especially not when it's a low-stakes blog.
posted by yasaman at 5:56 PM on May 3, 2023 [17 favorites]
Okay, but it's not...for attention/the exposure? At least, it's for attention in the same way most everything posted for public consumption is. It's for fun. The internet used to be full of random shit that was just for fun, that one or two people ran, and maybe they'd shake the can for some cash to pay hosting fees every so often or whatever, but they were blogs and websites that had no pretense of professionalization or being part of a portfolio or being a side hustle or marketing for some other thing. They were just...for fun. Even professional writers can write for free, for fun.
However, Lavery specifically says, "I do value amateurism (as distinct from amateurishness) and enjoyment immensely, and share your sense that they’re worth championing. We’ve talked about this in a few interviews, so I don’t want to belabor the point, but after seeing so many websites disappear/fold/lay staff off over the last few years, I’ve found the internet a more dispiriting, less interesting place than it had been."
Writing doesn't need to be reserved for professional contexts. Speaking as an amateur writer myself, I do not in fact have any strong desire to become a professional writer. I have no desire to submit an essay or short story or what have you to an outlet that will pay for it. I'm not interested in running a whole-ass blog on my own. I, and people like me, might however be interested in writing up some random thing that catches my interest and posting that on a website--a weblog, if you will--where other people might be interested in reading it and commenting upon it! Perhaps I would like to share something that is the so-called best of the web! Wait, that sounds familiar--[looks down at the bottom of this very webpage]--ah.
You are on a blog that sources contributions from other people, for free, at this very moment. All The Stopgap is doing is adding an additional layer of curation in the form of editors--both of whom also contribute themselves, for free--rather than mods who approve every post that doesn't violate the guidelines.
Every single website does not need to be monetized and professionalized, especially not when it's a low-stakes blog.
posted by yasaman at 5:56 PM on May 3, 2023 [17 favorites]
Also, you say they don't have a business plan, but right there on the about page, it says: "This is strictly for fun. The Stopgap is not a business. We aren’t paying ourselves or anybody else. Digital tip jars will let readers donate directly to guest writers, but please—don’t pitch us anything you could get paid for elsewhere."
No one needs a business plan to run a blog. No one needs a business plan to start up a random website, no, not even if it includes guest contributions. If I, an internet rando, do not need a business plan to shitpost on tumblr or to submit a post on the Blue or to write up a thread on some random niche topic on Twitter or post on Dreamwidth, then neither do any other writers, not even professional ones.
posted by yasaman at 6:10 PM on May 3, 2023 [5 favorites]
No one needs a business plan to run a blog. No one needs a business plan to start up a random website, no, not even if it includes guest contributions. If I, an internet rando, do not need a business plan to shitpost on tumblr or to submit a post on the Blue or to write up a thread on some random niche topic on Twitter or post on Dreamwidth, then neither do any other writers, not even professional ones.
posted by yasaman at 6:10 PM on May 3, 2023 [5 favorites]
this kooky bullshit vanity project
Were you demanding approval rights on every new blog in 2003? Must have been fun times.
I once ran a small website where people posted their writing without getting paid, on principle. I didn't have a business plan, either. Whew. Didn't realize I was such a menace to society.
posted by praemunire at 6:24 PM on May 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
Were you demanding approval rights on every new blog in 2003? Must have been fun times.
I once ran a small website where people posted their writing without getting paid, on principle. I didn't have a business plan, either. Whew. Didn't realize I was such a menace to society.
posted by praemunire at 6:24 PM on May 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
These days the only money in blogging is from user subscriptions. A new blog isn't going to have any.
If you insist on every blog paying writers from launch every blog is going to need an independently wealthy sponsor like The Toast had.
posted by zymil at 7:49 PM on May 3, 2023
If you insist on every blog paying writers from launch every blog is going to need an independently wealthy sponsor like The Toast had.
posted by zymil at 7:49 PM on May 3, 2023
Mod note: A few deleted. Let’s please keep the personal attacks out of these threads.
posted by travelingthyme (staff) at 8:58 PM on May 3, 2023
posted by travelingthyme (staff) at 8:58 PM on May 3, 2023
For what it’s worth, ed, I thought about not posting the link because of that passage too. But, in the end, I didn’t become a writer out of material concerns, though that’s mostly how I’ve made my living over the last few years, but because I love writing. I’ve taken part in plenty of writing projects where no one got paid, from charity things to zines, and I’ve even organized some of those too.
It’s an unfortunate fact that modern capitalism isn't hospitable to all forms of writing. For instance, to take an example from my native country, venues for short stories have nearly entirely disappeared in Iceland, because the magazines that would publish them have either shuttered or radically cut back their publishing schedules largely, it seems, because a large percentage of companies’ advertising budgets are spent on Facebook and Google ads, which means less is going to local companies.
Fifteen years ago, a website like the Stopgap could’ve sustained itself on ads, and paid its writers, but that ad money is going to Facebook and Google. Sure, they could’ve done it as a Substack and taken subscriptions, but lord knows that Substack is rapidly enshittifying into unusability.
And also, sometimes writing should be about the joy of it. If you get paid too, all the better. I once wrote a poem for money, and it was a weird, deeply unsatisfying experience. So after thinking about it, I found myself in agreement with Lavery and Livingstone, sometimes amateurism is the way to go.
posted by Kattullus at 6:00 AM on May 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
It’s an unfortunate fact that modern capitalism isn't hospitable to all forms of writing. For instance, to take an example from my native country, venues for short stories have nearly entirely disappeared in Iceland, because the magazines that would publish them have either shuttered or radically cut back their publishing schedules largely, it seems, because a large percentage of companies’ advertising budgets are spent on Facebook and Google ads, which means less is going to local companies.
Fifteen years ago, a website like the Stopgap could’ve sustained itself on ads, and paid its writers, but that ad money is going to Facebook and Google. Sure, they could’ve done it as a Substack and taken subscriptions, but lord knows that Substack is rapidly enshittifying into unusability.
And also, sometimes writing should be about the joy of it. If you get paid too, all the better. I once wrote a poem for money, and it was a weird, deeply unsatisfying experience. So after thinking about it, I found myself in agreement with Lavery and Livingstone, sometimes amateurism is the way to go.
posted by Kattullus at 6:00 AM on May 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
Good sweet lord jesus just let the folks have some fun on the internet.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:27 AM on May 4, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:27 AM on May 4, 2023 [9 favorites]
Didn't Lavery get gobs of substack cash?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 9:42 AM on May 4, 2023
posted by fluttering hellfire at 9:42 AM on May 4, 2023
I think that is true, fluttering hellfire, and his wife had a Substack also until she quit due to their platforming of transphobia. Lavery still does his. I don't presume to know the moral calculus there. Maybe it is just a long-binding contract.
Non-paying zines and literary reviews are the first and last stop for a lot of writers. There should be more money around to pay people, but there's not, and that's how it's been for decades.
posted by Countess Elena at 2:21 PM on May 4, 2023
Non-paying zines and literary reviews are the first and last stop for a lot of writers. There should be more money around to pay people, but there's not, and that's how it's been for decades.
posted by Countess Elena at 2:21 PM on May 4, 2023
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