Not the Beta you're thinking of (it's way better)
May 9, 2023 12:16 PM Subscribe
Technology Connections' new video is about Sony Betacam.
"the videotape format war between VHS and Beta happened some 40 years ago..."
No, you shut up.
posted by Mchelly at 12:46 PM on May 9, 2023 [7 favorites]
No, you shut up.
posted by Mchelly at 12:46 PM on May 9, 2023 [7 favorites]
And here I thought the reason VHS won was porn. Turns out it was just a lot more useful overall! Sony has a rich history of painting itself into a corner with non-standard technology moves. Anyone remember the Memory Stick? The MiniDisc?
posted by grumpybear69 at 1:02 PM on May 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 1:02 PM on May 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
In this world of Google Docs and pdf files, God format wars were annoying.
posted by Keith Talent at 1:09 PM on May 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Keith Talent at 1:09 PM on May 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
Sixty minutes. That's "one hour" for those of you who speak metric.
posted by hippybear at 1:34 PM on May 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 1:34 PM on May 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
I learned this when having to digitize a bunch of interview tapes for a job a few years ago, I found a Betamax machine with a digital out and learned the and Betacam tapes don’t fit into them. However the machine did come with a vintage porn tape still inside.
I found a Sony J10 betacam machine in on eBay with the condition listed “as is—powers on but we don’t have any tapes to see if it plays”. It had FireWire as its digital output format, which was perfect because the newest piece of technology in that office was a 2007 iMac. The thing wouldn’t play, but I took it to an electronic repair shop in the back of a souvenir and t-shirt store in Chinatown and the replaced a snapped belt inside the player and it worked perfectly. Absolutely great machine, potable, a bunch of features, could do PAL and NTSC formats. The satisfaction of finding a solution and the total expense being under $200 was the only good part of that job.
posted by Jon_Evil at 1:49 PM on May 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
I found a Sony J10 betacam machine in on eBay with the condition listed “as is—powers on but we don’t have any tapes to see if it plays”. It had FireWire as its digital output format, which was perfect because the newest piece of technology in that office was a 2007 iMac. The thing wouldn’t play, but I took it to an electronic repair shop in the back of a souvenir and t-shirt store in Chinatown and the replaced a snapped belt inside the player and it worked perfectly. Absolutely great machine, potable, a bunch of features, could do PAL and NTSC formats. The satisfaction of finding a solution and the total expense being under $200 was the only good part of that job.
posted by Jon_Evil at 1:49 PM on May 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
And here I thought the reason VHS won was porn. Turns out it was just a lot more useful overall!
It was probably still part of it, but, yeah, it was mostly that VHS tapes had longer tapes and recording modes first, and less restrictive licensing and competition from different makers.
In one of his other videos he talks about how Beta and VHS were really quite equal in features, cost and total sales for the first 5-10 years or so but then there was a tipping point where VHS took the lead, which meant more major studio movies as well as adult and other pre-recorded content was available, which meant even more VHS deck sales and so on.
I definitely remember this tipping point in rental stores where the Beta section kept getting smaller and smaller and if you wanted offbeat or less popular movies it was basically VHS or nothing at all. Towards the end of VCRs and rental stores I don't think I even remember seeing Beta tapes in Blockbuster or the Wherehouse at all except for maybe vintage titles.
The Technology Connections channel has a whole bunch of different videos on VCRs and vintage video stuff, and if you like that kind of thing there's also the Cathode Ray Dude who does even deeper dives into vintage video/tape technology and leaning more into broadcast media stuff and cameras and more. He also has a similar sense of dry humor as Alex from TC that's fun.
posted by loquacious at 1:49 PM on May 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
It was probably still part of it, but, yeah, it was mostly that VHS tapes had longer tapes and recording modes first, and less restrictive licensing and competition from different makers.
In one of his other videos he talks about how Beta and VHS were really quite equal in features, cost and total sales for the first 5-10 years or so but then there was a tipping point where VHS took the lead, which meant more major studio movies as well as adult and other pre-recorded content was available, which meant even more VHS deck sales and so on.
I definitely remember this tipping point in rental stores where the Beta section kept getting smaller and smaller and if you wanted offbeat or less popular movies it was basically VHS or nothing at all. Towards the end of VCRs and rental stores I don't think I even remember seeing Beta tapes in Blockbuster or the Wherehouse at all except for maybe vintage titles.
The Technology Connections channel has a whole bunch of different videos on VCRs and vintage video stuff, and if you like that kind of thing there's also the Cathode Ray Dude who does even deeper dives into vintage video/tape technology and leaning more into broadcast media stuff and cameras and more. He also has a similar sense of dry humor as Alex from TC that's fun.
posted by loquacious at 1:49 PM on May 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
However the machine did come with a vintage porn tape still inside.
I'm having trouble parsing this sentence but it seems weirdly filthy.
posted by chavenet at 2:11 PM on May 9, 2023 [3 favorites]
I'm having trouble parsing this sentence but it seems weirdly filthy.
posted by chavenet at 2:11 PM on May 9, 2023 [3 favorites]
Betamax /= Betacam
posted by Sphinx at 2:56 PM on May 9, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Sphinx at 2:56 PM on May 9, 2023 [5 favorites]
I have not WTFV but -
I worked at an archive that specialized in film and video formats for a number of years and I can say that Beta and Digi-Beta (as well as a who lot of other tape cartridge type formats) enjoyed a long life after VHS was replaced via commercial production. For TV, internal Corporate, all sorts of anything pre-pro. I managed a warehouse that was likened to the final scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark filled with Beta + type tapes - all cataloged for the companies we contracted for.
posted by djseafood at 2:59 PM on May 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
I worked at an archive that specialized in film and video formats for a number of years and I can say that Beta and Digi-Beta (as well as a who lot of other tape cartridge type formats) enjoyed a long life after VHS was replaced via commercial production. For TV, internal Corporate, all sorts of anything pre-pro. I managed a warehouse that was likened to the final scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark filled with Beta + type tapes - all cataloged for the companies we contracted for.
posted by djseafood at 2:59 PM on May 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
Betamax /= Betacam
Beta and Betamax vs. VHS discussions always seem to come up, and they are derived from Sony's Betacam and earlier broadcast media tech.
It's also notable that VHS did not experience the same kind of adoption rates in the broadcast industry. Sure, they used it but you didn't generally see professional grade camcorders, editing decks and more in the industry.
Sony's whole Beta-related ecosystem always had much better transport controls, automation and features for professional video and media.
posted by loquacious at 3:05 PM on May 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
Beta and Betamax vs. VHS discussions always seem to come up, and they are derived from Sony's Betacam and earlier broadcast media tech.
It's also notable that VHS did not experience the same kind of adoption rates in the broadcast industry. Sure, they used it but you didn't generally see professional grade camcorders, editing decks and more in the industry.
Sony's whole Beta-related ecosystem always had much better transport controls, automation and features for professional video and media.
posted by loquacious at 3:05 PM on May 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
they are derived from Sony's Betacam
Someone didn't watch the video.
posted by hippybear at 3:09 PM on May 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
Someone didn't watch the video.
posted by hippybear at 3:09 PM on May 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
Every time I watch his videos I learn something. It's a shame that he really, really, really bugs me.
One early difference between VHS and Beta that was not mentioned was that Beta was stereo. I'm pretty sure early VHS was mono. (If that's not true then that explains why it wasn't mentioned)
I got a Beta VCR around 1983 and I think that's why I chose Beta.
posted by MtDewd at 3:37 PM on May 9, 2023
One early difference between VHS and Beta that was not mentioned was that Beta was stereo. I'm pretty sure early VHS was mono. (If that's not true then that explains why it wasn't mentioned)
I got a Beta VCR around 1983 and I think that's why I chose Beta.
posted by MtDewd at 3:37 PM on May 9, 2023
Metafilter: weirdly filthy
posted by allium cepa at 3:37 PM on May 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by allium cepa at 3:37 PM on May 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
In a previous 20th century life, I was employed by a videotape transfer facility; one of my skills is that I can translate any videotape-format-related aspect between various users and grumpy underpaid video technicians. I've spoken almost the exact same words he uses here to many clients, in a somewhat more bland tone of voice. I have many work-related stories from this time which are uninteresting.
He explains it all really well.
posted by ovvl at 3:41 PM on May 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
He explains it all really well.
posted by ovvl at 3:41 PM on May 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
Having watched the whole thing, it's pretty good. He glosses over some stuff I would have liked more scrutiny on but I did like him going into component/composite but I didn't see any Y/C dubbing. I also didn't like the Betamax/VHS side by side test when one deck is much newer than the other one. "This Betamax deck from 1983 is crappier than this VHS/DVD combo from 1995?"
I deal with 3/4" and Betacam/DigiBeta in my current job, and the image quality I can get from them is pretty impressive what with it being cutting edge 30-50 years ago. If you can get past the small resolution, it's not that bad.
posted by Sphinx at 3:59 PM on May 9, 2023
I deal with 3/4" and Betacam/DigiBeta in my current job, and the image quality I can get from them is pretty impressive what with it being cutting edge 30-50 years ago. If you can get past the small resolution, it's not that bad.
posted by Sphinx at 3:59 PM on May 9, 2023
Sony's whole Beta-related ecosystem always had much better transport controls
Oh man, those jog/shuttle knobs on the 1980's 3/4" U-matic machines spoiled me for anything else.
posted by mikelieman at 4:02 PM on May 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
Oh man, those jog/shuttle knobs on the 1980's 3/4" U-matic machines spoiled me for anything else.
posted by mikelieman at 4:02 PM on May 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
Oh man, those jog/shuttle knobs on the 1980's 3/4" U-matic machines spoiled me for anything else.
Ah, U-matic aficionado, refined tastes. By the end of the 20th century many of those remaining decks were not well maintained. For some reason, advertising agencies still really liked using them: "slates, no bars". (consumer tapes had no slates no bars; professional tapes had slates & colour bars to adjust monitor reference, slate was like a little plain title card).
posted by ovvl at 5:25 PM on May 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
Ah, U-matic aficionado, refined tastes. By the end of the 20th century many of those remaining decks were not well maintained. For some reason, advertising agencies still really liked using them: "slates, no bars". (consumer tapes had no slates no bars; professional tapes had slates & colour bars to adjust monitor reference, slate was like a little plain title card).
posted by ovvl at 5:25 PM on May 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
I was mostly aware of what is discussed in the video, but had previously thought that Betacam did what S-Video did, separating luma and chroma but still having a composite chroma signal, rather than being full on component video using some ridiculously complicated multiplexing scheme.
I also didn't realize that many newer Betamax decks didn't support the original tape speed at all. That probably explains why I have a memory of Betamax having somewhat better quality than VHS. That and the fact that I rarely used SP on my VHS decks because tapes were expensive, yo.
posted by wierdo at 7:24 PM on May 9, 2023
I also didn't realize that many newer Betamax decks didn't support the original tape speed at all. That probably explains why I have a memory of Betamax having somewhat better quality than VHS. That and the fact that I rarely used SP on my VHS decks because tapes were expensive, yo.
posted by wierdo at 7:24 PM on May 9, 2023
Someone didn't watch the video.
I did, and I've been a long term-subscriber of Technology Connections and others discussing the technology and evolution of Betamax and the VHS vs. Betamax format wars.
I was speaking vaguely but the Betamax I/II/III system, mechanism and tape transport controls are functionally and mechanically derived from U-matic tapes and earlier Sony systems, even if the differences in how the tapes were encoded were wildly different.
There isn't really a clear, bright evolutionary line between U-matic, Betamax and Betacam apart from them being incompatible in encoding. They have a lot of similarities in how the tape wraps almost completely around the analog tape recording/playback heads even if the media and cassettes or encoding isn't the same or compatible with each other.
VHS uses a much different tape transport and encoding scheme compared to U-matic, Betamax or Betacam and most of Sony's video tape products.
posted by loquacious at 8:59 PM on May 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
I did, and I've been a long term-subscriber of Technology Connections and others discussing the technology and evolution of Betamax and the VHS vs. Betamax format wars.
I was speaking vaguely but the Betamax I/II/III system, mechanism and tape transport controls are functionally and mechanically derived from U-matic tapes and earlier Sony systems, even if the differences in how the tapes were encoded were wildly different.
There isn't really a clear, bright evolutionary line between U-matic, Betamax and Betacam apart from them being incompatible in encoding. They have a lot of similarities in how the tape wraps almost completely around the analog tape recording/playback heads even if the media and cassettes or encoding isn't the same or compatible with each other.
VHS uses a much different tape transport and encoding scheme compared to U-matic, Betamax or Betacam and most of Sony's video tape products.
posted by loquacious at 8:59 PM on May 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
The format wars and later the WinOS vs MacOS wars always seem to point to one fact: consumers are cheap and "good enough" (ie cheap) always wins. Always. You can witness it on lots of tech. The early iterations are often "better" or more fully featured. Compare a 1970s component stereo system to one from 1990. Compare a boombox from first or second gen to one of the last gen. By the end, everything is plastic, all the nice outputs are gone, one of the two cassettes doesn't have a record button, there's no more tone controls, and so on.
If you buy tech, especially newer tech, based on technical merits, you will lose.
posted by readyfreddy at 12:57 AM on May 13, 2023
If you buy tech, especially newer tech, based on technical merits, you will lose.
posted by readyfreddy at 12:57 AM on May 13, 2023
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