SAG/AFTRA contracts expire without a deal, strike expected
July 13, 2023 8:40 AM Subscribe
The union, which represents professional actors in the USA, will make a formal announcement at noon Pacific time. With no writers, and no actors, what will the streaming services do for content?
With no writers, and no actors, what will the streaming services do for content?
Oh good, this will give me plenty of time to catch up on classic movies for my blog.
(And if I'm REALLY REALLY lucky it'll convince Netflix to keep the DVD distribution going instead of cancelling it in September.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:53 AM on July 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
Oh good, this will give me plenty of time to catch up on classic movies for my blog.
(And if I'm REALLY REALLY lucky it'll convince Netflix to keep the DVD distribution going instead of cancelling it in September.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:53 AM on July 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
I'm a SAG member with a normie 9-5 day job. A friend of mine just posted the first residual check she got for a 10-episode network limited series on which she was a guest star every episode: $2.38.
posted by HeroZero at 8:56 AM on July 13, 2023 [87 favorites]
posted by HeroZero at 8:56 AM on July 13, 2023 [87 favorites]
the streaming services do for content?
Most have older programming for people to watch. With what seems to be an incoming global economic downturn people will trim back the number of subscriptions and like claims of 'going woke' causing 'brokeness' the union effort will get blamed for the downturn.
New programming was an effort to capture and keep people. Now we'll see ad-free options increase in price and ads showing up just like OTA media.
posted by rough ashlar at 8:57 AM on July 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
Most have older programming for people to watch. With what seems to be an incoming global economic downturn people will trim back the number of subscriptions and like claims of 'going woke' causing 'brokeness' the union effort will get blamed for the downturn.
New programming was an effort to capture and keep people. Now we'll see ad-free options increase in price and ads showing up just like OTA media.
posted by rough ashlar at 8:57 AM on July 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
....and because that sounds really callous - I also wholly support the writers because I've read the studios' current reaction to the WGA strikers and my attitude is all "screw the suits" right now.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:57 AM on July 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:57 AM on July 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
With no writers, and no actors, what will the streaming services do for content?
But 75% of the reason I subscribe to streaming services in the first place is to watch catalog content from 10-20 years ago or more.
I've never had time to keep up with the vast majority of new original series offered by Netflix, Hulu, and others, but I'm happy to have an easy way to rewatch old favorites (or just old stuff that's new to me) if I don't already own them on DVD.
I suspect we're going to get another wave of people rediscovering Twin Peaks and Columbo, just like we did in the early years of streaming TV making all the old stuff available again.
(And to be clear, I'm fully on board with the writers and actors on wanting a better payout structure for residuals on these old series. If there's no new content, the people responsible for making the old content should absolutely be entitled to some small piece of the action.)
posted by Strange Interlude at 9:01 AM on July 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
But 75% of the reason I subscribe to streaming services in the first place is to watch catalog content from 10-20 years ago or more.
I've never had time to keep up with the vast majority of new original series offered by Netflix, Hulu, and others, but I'm happy to have an easy way to rewatch old favorites (or just old stuff that's new to me) if I don't already own them on DVD.
I suspect we're going to get another wave of people rediscovering Twin Peaks and Columbo, just like we did in the early years of streaming TV making all the old stuff available again.
(And to be clear, I'm fully on board with the writers and actors on wanting a better payout structure for residuals on these old series. If there's no new content, the people responsible for making the old content should absolutely be entitled to some small piece of the action.)
posted by Strange Interlude at 9:01 AM on July 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
particularly columbo because of how natasha lyonne has taken up peter falk's mantle and has done brilliant things with it
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 9:14 AM on July 13, 2023 [22 favorites]
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 9:14 AM on July 13, 2023 [22 favorites]
With no writers, and no actors, what will the streaming services do for content?
We're already seeing a rise in foreign content, especially South Korean. I wonder if the services will lean heavily on that to keep the content stream flowing.
posted by star gentle uterus at 9:17 AM on July 13, 2023 [9 favorites]
We're already seeing a rise in foreign content, especially South Korean. I wonder if the services will lean heavily on that to keep the content stream flowing.
posted by star gentle uterus at 9:17 AM on July 13, 2023 [9 favorites]
Reruns and South Korean content are nice, but they do fuck all for attracting new users, so to whatever extent they were hoping to do that they’ll have to give up on that aspiration for a while.
The line will not be going up.
Hopefully this will result in a crisis for them sooner rather than later.
posted by Artw at 9:20 AM on July 13, 2023
The line will not be going up.
Hopefully this will result in a crisis for them sooner rather than later.
posted by Artw at 9:20 AM on July 13, 2023
anyway. i hate this and i wish the actors and writers and everyone else involved in movie and television production except the fucking suits pulled a defector and started making their own stuff without getting bled dry by talentless jackholes who no one would give the time of day if they didn't have hoards of inherited wealth.
i know movie production at our current visual standards requires a lot of capital i.e. those hoards of inherited wealth the useless people are squatting on, but i for one am totally comfortable with the next n years of movies and television shows being shot on iphones and having dodgy special effects. totally replacing big-budget hollywood with low-budget anarchywood would be a real long slog but if we could get there it would be so wonderful.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 9:20 AM on July 13, 2023 [20 favorites]
i know movie production at our current visual standards requires a lot of capital i.e. those hoards of inherited wealth the useless people are squatting on, but i for one am totally comfortable with the next n years of movies and television shows being shot on iphones and having dodgy special effects. totally replacing big-budget hollywood with low-budget anarchywood would be a real long slog but if we could get there it would be so wonderful.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 9:20 AM on July 13, 2023 [20 favorites]
Reruns and South Korean content are nice, but they do fuck all for attracting new users
Is that true? Squid Game didn't draw in any new subscribers?
posted by star gentle uterus at 9:23 AM on July 13, 2023 [8 favorites]
Is that true? Squid Game didn't draw in any new subscribers?
posted by star gentle uterus at 9:23 AM on July 13, 2023 [8 favorites]
With no writers, and no actors, what will the streaming services do for content?
Do the players on reality shows have to join SAG/AFTRA? If not, I think you'll be seeing a big increase in such programming. Yes, I know they are "scripted" to a degree, but I bet it wouldn't be too hard to find some workaround, no matter how shitty. Hell, as incomprehensible and as so many reality show are, they would be a good test of AI-generated scripts.
When do the contracts for the technical trades, like cinematographers, editors, etc., renew? Those going on strike would be a huge blow to the studios, as far as domestic production goes.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:26 AM on July 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
Do the players on reality shows have to join SAG/AFTRA? If not, I think you'll be seeing a big increase in such programming. Yes, I know they are "scripted" to a degree, but I bet it wouldn't be too hard to find some workaround, no matter how shitty. Hell, as incomprehensible and as so many reality show are, they would be a good test of AI-generated scripts.
When do the contracts for the technical trades, like cinematographers, editors, etc., renew? Those going on strike would be a huge blow to the studios, as far as domestic production goes.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:26 AM on July 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
Not sure a singular phenomenon is going to carry the weight of bringing in and keeping subscribers vs the literally hundreds of series and films that now are stopping production.
I'm sure the AMPTP would love to just have one wild hit to keep the lights on, but since they're trying to hitch their wagon to AI, I have a feeling they don't have the vision to reliably identify the next Squid Game.
posted by tclark at 9:27 AM on July 13, 2023
I'm sure the AMPTP would love to just have one wild hit to keep the lights on, but since they're trying to hitch their wagon to AI, I have a feeling they don't have the vision to reliably identify the next Squid Game.
posted by tclark at 9:27 AM on July 13, 2023
I’d accept Squid Game as a possible outlier and suspect even Netflix was super surprised at that.
posted by Artw at 9:27 AM on July 13, 2023
posted by Artw at 9:27 AM on July 13, 2023
Longest WGA strike was what 24 weeks or something? We're at 10/11 weeks currently? This could easily go that long or longer, but I imagine it compounding with a SAG/AFTRA strike, it may resolve quicker. The nature of these industries and these strikes are on long timeframes, because the things they make take so long to reach the consumer. This is a protracted game of chicken, and you can help the good guys win.
With the WGA strike, it looks like studios explicitly stating they are trying to wait them out, so maybe donate to some resiliency funds, and contact your union if you're a part of one to see how you can help them out.
If you're not a part of a union, you should talk to your coworkers about starting one, and contact union representatives to help you out. It is better for you, for your families, and for your local economies to be a part of a union. Consider this one of the moral, good things you can do if you have the privilege to do so, for those around you who don't necessarily, and to prepare better workplaces for those coming up under you. Be a bulwark against late stage capitalism!
posted by furnace.heart at 9:32 AM on July 13, 2023 [13 favorites]
With the WGA strike, it looks like studios explicitly stating they are trying to wait them out, so maybe donate to some resiliency funds, and contact your union if you're a part of one to see how you can help them out.
If you're not a part of a union, you should talk to your coworkers about starting one, and contact union representatives to help you out. It is better for you, for your families, and for your local economies to be a part of a union. Consider this one of the moral, good things you can do if you have the privilege to do so, for those around you who don't necessarily, and to prepare better workplaces for those coming up under you. Be a bulwark against late stage capitalism!
posted by furnace.heart at 9:32 AM on July 13, 2023 [13 favorites]
It was the Fuck Around of times, it was the Find Out of times.
How many studios sacrificed shows for tax breaks, how much money were they expecting to stay afloat, and how many had financial bombs like The Flash hit?
posted by Slackermagee at 9:38 AM on July 13, 2023 [26 favorites]
How many studios sacrificed shows for tax breaks, how much money were they expecting to stay afloat, and how many had financial bombs like The Flash hit?
posted by Slackermagee at 9:38 AM on July 13, 2023 [26 favorites]
Disney has had three failure movie releases in a row, including the Indy sequel. And their theme park attendance is down so much it's making news that wait times even in the normal lines are under a half-hour.
Warner took the biggest, original name in watching quality television at home and just winked it out of existence.
I think Sony is the only studio that's not hurting because of a streaming platform.
posted by hippybear at 9:44 AM on July 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
Warner took the biggest, original name in watching quality television at home and just winked it out of existence.
I think Sony is the only studio that's not hurting because of a streaming platform.
posted by hippybear at 9:44 AM on July 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
With the WGA strike, it looks like studios explicitly stating they are trying to wait them out, so maybe donate to some resiliency funds, and contact your union if you're a part of one to see how you can help them out.
Thank you for sharing that donation link! I'm going to donate right now. I have limited monetary resources and time, but I will do anything within my power and means to support these strikes.
If you are reading this, have the money to spare, and care about labor rights, I hope you'll consider donating, too. Strikes need all the solidarity and support they can get. I cannot express how important it to donate (if you can) and ensure continuous income for union members. These corporate dicks count on the hope that strike funds will eventually run out so that union members become vulnerable/desperate for income, so if you're in a position to donate, let's make sure that doesn't happen.
posted by nightrecordings at 9:49 AM on July 13, 2023 [11 favorites]
Thank you for sharing that donation link! I'm going to donate right now. I have limited monetary resources and time, but I will do anything within my power and means to support these strikes.
If you are reading this, have the money to spare, and care about labor rights, I hope you'll consider donating, too. Strikes need all the solidarity and support they can get. I cannot express how important it to donate (if you can) and ensure continuous income for union members. These corporate dicks count on the hope that strike funds will eventually run out so that union members become vulnerable/desperate for income, so if you're in a position to donate, let's make sure that doesn't happen.
posted by nightrecordings at 9:49 AM on July 13, 2023 [11 favorites]
what will the streaming services do for content?
My crazy idea is treat and pay workers who make stuff better, and give less money to investors who make everything in life so so much worse only to benefit themselves. If every actor and writer in the world disappeared, people would be alarmed and sad for the loss. If every investor in the world disappeared, all of our lives would simply improve.
posted by GoblinHoney at 9:54 AM on July 13, 2023 [21 favorites]
My crazy idea is treat and pay workers who make stuff better, and give less money to investors who make everything in life so so much worse only to benefit themselves. If every actor and writer in the world disappeared, people would be alarmed and sad for the loss. If every investor in the world disappeared, all of our lives would simply improve.
posted by GoblinHoney at 9:54 AM on July 13, 2023 [21 favorites]
someone published a piece about a month ago (I wish I had a link) about how the entire Holllywood system was effectively broken (absurdly corrupt business practices, vast and poisonous divides between the money people and the creative types)-- that there was no way forward that didn't involve what amounted to a 9.0 earthquake tearing everything up, reducing large chunks of the real estate to rubble, forcing a massive rethink of the entire infrastructure of the biz. And the writers' strike was posited as the beginning.
And now ...
posted by philip-random at 9:59 AM on July 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
And now ...
posted by philip-random at 9:59 AM on July 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
Reruns and South Korean content are nice, but they do fuck all for attracting new users
You say that, but my elderly Jewish parents started watching Extraordinary Attorney Woo entirely on their own initiative after finding a positive review in the paper. Granted, they were watching with dubbing, which irked me, but still...
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 10:07 AM on July 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
You say that, but my elderly Jewish parents started watching Extraordinary Attorney Woo entirely on their own initiative after finding a positive review in the paper. Granted, they were watching with dubbing, which irked me, but still...
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 10:07 AM on July 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
If Hollywood's woes allow more international content to go mainstream, that's not a bad thing. But in the end, worker's rights for all worldwide.
(And some of us watch the inferior dubbed versions of things because it's annoying to try and knit while reading subtitles.)
posted by rikschell at 10:12 AM on July 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
(And some of us watch the inferior dubbed versions of things because it's annoying to try and knit while reading subtitles.)
posted by rikschell at 10:12 AM on July 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
If every actor and writer in the world disappeared, people would be alarmed and sad for the loss.
.....Actually, some of the social media reactions I'm seeing are more like "who cares, those fuckers get paid too much anyway".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:14 AM on July 13, 2023
.....Actually, some of the social media reactions I'm seeing are more like "who cares, those fuckers get paid too much anyway".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:14 AM on July 13, 2023
someone published a piece about a month ago (I wish I had a link)
And now I think I have found it ...
Time to Break Up Hollywood
Hollywood is trapped in a death spiral, with streaming giants struggling to profit while smothering the industry itself. Finally the writers stood up. But will it be enough?
posted by philip-random at 10:16 AM on July 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
And now I think I have found it ...
Time to Break Up Hollywood
Hollywood is trapped in a death spiral, with streaming giants struggling to profit while smothering the industry itself. Finally the writers stood up. But will it be enough?
posted by philip-random at 10:16 AM on July 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
And their theme park attendance is down
Lol. Yeah, Rise of the Resistance at Disneyland is at only at 75 mins at 10am on a Thursday instead of 120.
No one that actually goes to Disneyland thinks that attendance is failing.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 10:23 AM on July 13, 2023 [10 favorites]
Lol. Yeah, Rise of the Resistance at Disneyland is at only at 75 mins at 10am on a Thursday instead of 120.
No one that actually goes to Disneyland thinks that attendance is failing.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 10:23 AM on July 13, 2023 [10 favorites]
i for one am totally comfortable with the next n years of movies and television shows being shot on iphones and having dodgy special effects
Same. Low-fi indie cinema of the 90s was really, really awesome and I'd like to see way more of it.
posted by grumpybear69 at 10:34 AM on July 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
Same. Low-fi indie cinema of the 90s was really, really awesome and I'd like to see way more of it.
posted by grumpybear69 at 10:34 AM on July 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
✊ Solidarity
posted by slogger at 10:44 AM on July 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by slogger at 10:44 AM on July 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
To what degree is maintaining our streaming subscription the equivalent of crossing a virtual picket line? Should we not also be canceling Netflix and D+ as well as opting out of Barbenheimer in solidarity?
posted by bl1nk at 11:30 AM on July 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by bl1nk at 11:30 AM on July 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
To what degree is maintaining our streaming subscription the equivalent of crossing a virtual picket line? Should we not also be canceling Netflix and D+ as well as opting out of Barbenheimer in solidarity?
The WGA has explicitly not called for boycotts by consumers. SAG-AFTRA hasn't either, but then, they're not officially on strike as of my typing this.
posted by Etrigan at 11:39 AM on July 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
The WGA has explicitly not called for boycotts by consumers. SAG-AFTRA hasn't either, but then, they're not officially on strike as of my typing this.
posted by Etrigan at 11:39 AM on July 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
And to add on what Etrigan has said, I've seen strike captains on twitter specifically ask folks to wait to cancel services until an official call comes to do it, so as to maximize the impact at the time those calls are made.
posted by HeroZero at 11:44 AM on July 13, 2023 [25 favorites]
posted by HeroZero at 11:44 AM on July 13, 2023 [25 favorites]
This is huge and good??? The last time SAG-AFRA went on strike was like 1980 and the last time there was a joint strike was like 1960. With the actors on strike, studios can't use the shows already in the pipeline to "wait out" the writers, because the actor's strike also means no touring to promote, no auditions, etc etc.
And if writers are worried about AI taking work away, actors have to be worried too. They don't want studios making AI zombie versions of them to use in perpetuity. I hope the studios cave first b/c CEO pay is dependent on the quarterly earnings report going up, and they are bluffing when they say they'll wait it out. Union strong.
posted by subdee at 11:49 AM on July 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
And if writers are worried about AI taking work away, actors have to be worried too. They don't want studios making AI zombie versions of them to use in perpetuity. I hope the studios cave first b/c CEO pay is dependent on the quarterly earnings report going up, and they are bluffing when they say they'll wait it out. Union strong.
posted by subdee at 11:49 AM on July 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
YouTube link for the press conference starting in a few minutes.
posted by HeroZero at 11:56 AM on July 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by HeroZero at 11:56 AM on July 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
It's on. SHUT 'EM DOWN.
posted by heteronym at 12:21 PM on July 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by heteronym at 12:21 PM on July 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
Wow, Fran Drescher is speaking with passion.
posted by hippybear at 12:22 PM on July 13, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 12:22 PM on July 13, 2023 [10 favorites]
AMPTP's position basically seems to be they want to be left to find a business model where they don't have to pay anyone and any measure to cut them off from that is terribly unfair.
posted by Artw at 12:30 PM on July 13, 2023 [18 favorites]
posted by Artw at 12:30 PM on July 13, 2023 [18 favorites]
No one that actually goes to Disneyland thinks that attendance is failing.
The people whose day job is to go to the parks are absolutely noting lower attendance.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:38 PM on July 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
The people whose day job is to go to the parks are absolutely noting lower attendance.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:38 PM on July 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
AMPTP's position basically seems to be they want to be left to find a business model where they don't have to pay anyone and any measure to cut them off from that is terribly unfair.
I'm convinced that their plan is to replace literally everybody except the executives with automated plagiarizer "AI" programs, based on the fact that they seem to want there to be nobody who can afford to work for them.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:39 PM on July 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
I'm convinced that their plan is to replace literally everybody except the executives with automated plagiarizer "AI" programs, based on the fact that they seem to want there to be nobody who can afford to work for them.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:39 PM on July 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
Duncan Crabtree-Ireland, executive director, is asked a question in Spanish and just paragraphs some explanations in Spanish. It's great.
posted by lauranesson at 12:40 PM on July 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by lauranesson at 12:40 PM on July 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
Oppenheimer cast walk out of UK premiere in 'solidarity' with actors' strike after their London event was started early due to the action (Daily Mail)
posted by Artw at 12:42 PM on July 13, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Artw at 12:42 PM on July 13, 2023 [8 favorites]
I'm pretty damned impressed with how SAG-AFTRA's leadership is running this press conference.
posted by heteronym at 12:44 PM on July 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by heteronym at 12:44 PM on July 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
That reporter who just said that regular people don't care about the issues and just care about not getting watch our shows is a jerk. And Fran is ripping him to pieces. Damn right we care.
posted by ceejaytee at 12:50 PM on July 13, 2023 [16 favorites]
posted by ceejaytee at 12:50 PM on July 13, 2023 [16 favorites]
Unfortunately, there are people saying "who cares, they're all just overpaid crybabies". When you point out that most people aren't getting paid that much they say "they're just extras they don't count". And Fran Drescher's comments don't really address that.
A strike's the only thing that WOULD address that, so far as I can tell.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:57 PM on July 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
A strike's the only thing that WOULD address that, so far as I can tell.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:57 PM on July 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
This from a Variety story late last night stuck with me:
The union is seeking a streaming residual formula that would account for the success of shows. The studios have been unwilling to disclose their own viewership data, leading SAG-AFTRA to propose using metrics from Parrot Analytics, a third-party data firm.
The studios have refused. Apparently, allowing writers and actors to share in the success of hit shows is the kind of thing Disney's Bob Iger thinks is actors and writers not being "realistic."
posted by mediareport at 1:01 PM on July 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
The union is seeking a streaming residual formula that would account for the success of shows. The studios have been unwilling to disclose their own viewership data, leading SAG-AFTRA to propose using metrics from Parrot Analytics, a third-party data firm.
The studios have refused. Apparently, allowing writers and actors to share in the success of hit shows is the kind of thing Disney's Bob Iger thinks is actors and writers not being "realistic."
posted by mediareport at 1:01 PM on July 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
.....You know, I just had a weird thought - might this lead to HBO finally releasing Batgirl after all?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:02 PM on July 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:02 PM on July 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Looks like SAG-AFTRA's site is slammed, but when it calms down, if anyone finds a page similar to this WGA comparison of the union's demands and the studios' offers from the start of the writers' strike, I'd love to see it.
posted by mediareport at 1:07 PM on July 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by mediareport at 1:07 PM on July 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Related, this is the story the New Yorker published on the tenth anniversary of the premiere of Orange is the New Black on Netflix:
“Orange Is the New Black” Signalled the Rot Inside the Streaming Economy
“Orange Is the New Black” Signalled the Rot Inside the Streaming Economy
Before one SAG Awards ceremony, the cast attended a house party thrown by Ted Sarandos, then Netflix’s chief content officer and now its co-C.E.O. Several actors remember that Sarandos gave a toast bragging that more people watched “Orange” than “Game of Thrones”—a rare sliver of transparency about the ratings. (One actor called it a “whoops” moment.) But the cast found the line less uplifting than galling; if the show was really more popular than “Game of Thrones”—whose top cast members have been said to make more than a million per episode by the end—why were the salaries for “Orange” so paltry? DeLaria told me, “I remember all of us thinking, ‘Give us the money!’ But we were always saying, ‘Give us the money.’ We were keenly aware that we weren’t being paid.” She added, referring to her residuals, “I get twenty dollars! I would love to know: How much money did Ted make last year?” (Twenty-two million in salary, plus stock options.)posted by riruro at 1:08 PM on July 13, 2023 [34 favorites]
Genuine question: I've been following all of this a bit, but not extensively (i.e. read a few articles, listened to a few podcasts). I think I understand more or less the view of the writers/actors - streaming has significantly cut their earnings, and in the writers case, lead to worse contracts (in terms of duration - i.e. the so-called 'mini-room'), which particularly hurts early-career writers/actors - a lot hard to break into a career if each gig you land is poorly compensated.
Meanwhile, the studios/streamers say, we're hurting too! Which, while it's true their profits might be down, they still have sizable profits, so it's a bit hard to take seriously.
My question though is if there is some truth to the idea that the sheer quantity of entertainment being produced is not sustainable if the creative labor behind it is compensated fairly? If the writers/actors got everything they wanted (which I realize will likely not happen), would that lead to less shows being made? Which, to be clear, I'd be fine with - so much TV these days - but I've just been wondering about it and never heard it brought up yet.
posted by coffeecat at 1:19 PM on July 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Meanwhile, the studios/streamers say, we're hurting too! Which, while it's true their profits might be down, they still have sizable profits, so it's a bit hard to take seriously.
My question though is if there is some truth to the idea that the sheer quantity of entertainment being produced is not sustainable if the creative labor behind it is compensated fairly? If the writers/actors got everything they wanted (which I realize will likely not happen), would that lead to less shows being made? Which, to be clear, I'd be fine with - so much TV these days - but I've just been wondering about it and never heard it brought up yet.
posted by coffeecat at 1:19 PM on July 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
My question though is if there is some truth to the idea that the sheer quantity of entertainment being produced is not sustainable if the creative labor behind it is compensated fairly?
The WGA outlined in that link above that their proposals would compensate writers with $429 million per year and the AMPTP's proposals $86 million. Let's triple that now that SAG is involved, which is probably a gross overestimation, but still.
Unless you believe that across the entirety of the AMPTP, they don't have $1.029 billion per year, the answer to your question is: no.
They may not want to pay it, because it would mean more money going towards the workers and less used for stock buybacks, etc, but you know, fuck Wall Street.
posted by rhymedirective at 1:24 PM on July 13, 2023 [15 favorites]
The WGA outlined in that link above that their proposals would compensate writers with $429 million per year and the AMPTP's proposals $86 million. Let's triple that now that SAG is involved, which is probably a gross overestimation, but still.
Unless you believe that across the entirety of the AMPTP, they don't have $1.029 billion per year, the answer to your question is: no.
They may not want to pay it, because it would mean more money going towards the workers and less used for stock buybacks, etc, but you know, fuck Wall Street.
posted by rhymedirective at 1:24 PM on July 13, 2023 [15 favorites]
This says it's about the writers' strike in the title, but it's really more about how Hollywood is broken, creating too much content, is unsustainable, etc. It also has some interesting charts in it about studios and projects affected by the strike and stuff. I'm putting it here because it's all sort of the same card. Peak TV Has Peaked: From Exhausted Talent to Massive Losses, the Writers Strike Magnifies an Industry in Freefall [Variety]
posted by hippybear at 1:26 PM on July 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 1:26 PM on July 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
I think it’s important that if someone’s business model is a poorly thought out ponzi scheme that relied on free money and is harder to do since free money dries up them it is not up to everyone else to put them back on track by working for them for free.
posted by Artw at 1:26 PM on July 13, 2023 [18 favorites]
posted by Artw at 1:26 PM on July 13, 2023 [18 favorites]
Oh, and fewer tv shows are coming and has nothing to do with the strike, because streaming is a bad business model.
posted by rhymedirective at 1:27 PM on July 13, 2023
posted by rhymedirective at 1:27 PM on July 13, 2023
My question though is if there is some truth to the idea that the sheer quantity of entertainment being produced is not sustainable if the creative labor behind it is compensated fairly? If the writers/actors got everything they wanted (which I realize will likely not happen), would that lead to less shows being made?
....So, a college friend of mine went into animation, and now lives in Burbank. I paid his family a visit when I was in Los Angeles in the spring. He lives in a small 3-bedroom bungalow in Burbank, and several of his neighbors are on TV.
...One such neighbor is an actor on two series and can only afford a 700 square foot house. This is another one of his neighbors - and that's about the size of the house that my friend lives in.
By contrast, this is just one of Bob Iger's houses; he spent $7 million on renovations at a time he was laying off several Disney employees.
It strikes me that Bob Iger selling JUST ONE of his houses could cover many of SAG's demands.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:30 PM on July 13, 2023 [15 favorites]
....So, a college friend of mine went into animation, and now lives in Burbank. I paid his family a visit when I was in Los Angeles in the spring. He lives in a small 3-bedroom bungalow in Burbank, and several of his neighbors are on TV.
...One such neighbor is an actor on two series and can only afford a 700 square foot house. This is another one of his neighbors - and that's about the size of the house that my friend lives in.
By contrast, this is just one of Bob Iger's houses; he spent $7 million on renovations at a time he was laying off several Disney employees.
It strikes me that Bob Iger selling JUST ONE of his houses could cover many of SAG's demands.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:30 PM on July 13, 2023 [15 favorites]
if there is some truth to the idea that the sheer quantity of entertainment being produced is not sustainable if the creative labor behind it is compensated fairly?
I think the correct answer is: Who cares? If something getting made requires the abusive treatment of the people making it, then it should not exist.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:40 PM on July 13, 2023 [26 favorites]
I think the correct answer is: Who cares? If something getting made requires the abusive treatment of the people making it, then it should not exist.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:40 PM on July 13, 2023 [26 favorites]
Oh, and fewer tv shows are coming and has nothing to do with the strike, because streaming is a bad business model.
I do wonder if it might be kind of a blessing if television were to shrink back down to something closer to the amount of programming that could fit on four major networks' prime time schedules, plus whatever number of shows used to air on basic/premium cable plus local syndication. That was a manageable amount of TV that people could reasonably be expected to keep up with, and be at least peripherally aware of even if they didn't watch. Nowadays our TV culture is so fractured, that there are literally series that have been on the air for five or six years, that I've never even heard of, let alone heard anyone talking about.
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:41 PM on July 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
I do wonder if it might be kind of a blessing if television were to shrink back down to something closer to the amount of programming that could fit on four major networks' prime time schedules, plus whatever number of shows used to air on basic/premium cable plus local syndication. That was a manageable amount of TV that people could reasonably be expected to keep up with, and be at least peripherally aware of even if they didn't watch. Nowadays our TV culture is so fractured, that there are literally series that have been on the air for five or six years, that I've never even heard of, let alone heard anyone talking about.
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:41 PM on July 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
Anybody know how this affects actors (and writers) appearing at conventions - I'm specifically wondering about the upcoming Star Trek convention in Las Vegas? Several articles say writers and actors won't be promoting upcoming projects at San Diego Comic Con, but does that apply to cons where the studios themselves aren't paying workers to do promotional junkets (I think the people at STLV get paid by the organizers and by selling autographs and photo ops)?
posted by mistersix at 1:43 PM on July 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by mistersix at 1:43 PM on July 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
That question was asked during the press release. The short answer is that members won't be able to promote any program that was made under the current or previous contract. I take it to mean no Star Trek/Supernatural/Outlander (pick your fanfave) panels. Things like autograph sessions, however, are permitted. I also suspect panel discussions about the state of modern sci-fi writing or the feminist take on military sci-fi (as two examples pulled out of my hat) would be permitted.
posted by sardonyx at 1:48 PM on July 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by sardonyx at 1:48 PM on July 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
'For those that didn't watch the press conference, one of the AMPTP's "reasonable" and "historic" offers was to be able to pay actors once to be scanned as background then owned to be used indefinitely, on any number of projects, as a digital asset, for no further pay.'
posted by HeroZero at 1:50 PM on July 13, 2023 [22 favorites]
posted by HeroZero at 1:50 PM on July 13, 2023 [22 favorites]
Not that I have "the Hollywood hookup" or anything, but I finally met IRL an online castmate who lives in LA a few weeks ago at a party--he was back here for a few days. He said that he thinks once the actors are gone too, things will shift pretty quickly. From your lips to rich jackholes's ears, sir.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:58 PM on July 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:58 PM on July 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
'For those that didn't watch the press conference, one of the AMPTP's "reasonable" and "historic" offers was to be able to pay actors once to be scanned as background then owned to be used indefinitely, on any number of projects, as a digital asset, for no further pay.'
Relevant recent Black Mirror episode
posted by LionIndex at 2:02 PM on July 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Relevant recent Black Mirror episode
posted by LionIndex at 2:02 PM on July 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
... writers and actors won't be promoting upcoming projects at San Diego Comic Con...
You can see the San Diego Comic-Con programming slate here. Note the "cancelled" filter includes a now-cancelled appearance by Kurtwood Smith and Debra Jo Rupp for That 70s Show's 25th anniversary. It was just cancelled today; there may be some large, empty rooms during next week's convention.
I'm going to the show, so I'll see if Jamie Lee Curtis or the Babylon 5 cast (Boxleitner, Christian, Scoggins, Tallman) are at their panel or autograph signing session.
posted by JDC8 at 2:27 PM on July 13, 2023
You can see the San Diego Comic-Con programming slate here. Note the "cancelled" filter includes a now-cancelled appearance by Kurtwood Smith and Debra Jo Rupp for That 70s Show's 25th anniversary. It was just cancelled today; there may be some large, empty rooms during next week's convention.
I'm going to the show, so I'll see if Jamie Lee Curtis or the Babylon 5 cast (Boxleitner, Christian, Scoggins, Tallman) are at their panel or autograph signing session.
posted by JDC8 at 2:27 PM on July 13, 2023
Relevant recent Black Mirror episode
No love for Looker?
posted by JoeZydeco at 2:28 PM on July 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
No love for Looker?
posted by JoeZydeco at 2:28 PM on July 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
WGA Striking /SAG Striking / DGA’s “Historic” Deal
posted by Artw at 2:32 PM on July 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 2:32 PM on July 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Either the unions or some supportive fangroups should put together teach-ins or panels on the strike during the timeslots of some big cancelled panels.
Also, the strike fund(s) should do a uniquely-colored t-shirt fundraiser. If a quarter of the bodies are wearing fluorescent purple "I bought them a pizza" shirts, that's a news story right there.
posted by DebetEsse at 2:37 PM on July 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
Also, the strike fund(s) should do a uniquely-colored t-shirt fundraiser. If a quarter of the bodies are wearing fluorescent purple "I bought them a pizza" shirts, that's a news story right there.
posted by DebetEsse at 2:37 PM on July 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
Nowadays our TV culture is so fractured, that there are literally series that have been on the air for five or six years, that I've never even heard of, let alone heard anyone talking about.
all other stuff aside, I see this as feature not bug. Not that there very probably isn't way too much TV product available of late, but Sturgeon's Law more than applies ("ninety percent of everything is crap") to the wonderland of moving picture entertainment. With the added concern that no matter how crap some stuff is, audiences keep finding it and apparently liking it.
Which does force me to wonder how much AI-generated everything a lot of people wouldn't just put up with, they'd actually like it -- they really do want every-story-the-same with a few tweaks here and there. Hallmark stuff, for instance. Speaking of which, this could really be a game changer:
Hallmark Researchers Say They Are Close To Developing A Second Movie Plot
posted by philip-random at 2:39 PM on July 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
all other stuff aside, I see this as feature not bug. Not that there very probably isn't way too much TV product available of late, but Sturgeon's Law more than applies ("ninety percent of everything is crap") to the wonderland of moving picture entertainment. With the added concern that no matter how crap some stuff is, audiences keep finding it and apparently liking it.
Which does force me to wonder how much AI-generated everything a lot of people wouldn't just put up with, they'd actually like it -- they really do want every-story-the-same with a few tweaks here and there. Hallmark stuff, for instance. Speaking of which, this could really be a game changer:
Hallmark Researchers Say They Are Close To Developing A Second Movie Plot
posted by philip-random at 2:39 PM on July 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
Generic sneers at peoples work not entirely helpful here, tbh.
posted by Artw at 2:48 PM on July 13, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by Artw at 2:48 PM on July 13, 2023 [9 favorites]
Hollywood's changed before. Used to be all the actors were paid employees of different studios and would work for scale for whatever picture was assigned to them. Same directors, musicians, everyone. The "studio system" turned out some of our most beloved movies, but it ended.
I don't know what is going to come next, but it might be that big a shift in how Hollywood is structured.
posted by hippybear at 2:58 PM on July 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
I don't know what is going to come next, but it might be that big a shift in how Hollywood is structured.
posted by hippybear at 2:58 PM on July 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
the AMPTP's "reasonable" and "historic" offers was to be able to pay actors once to be scanned as background then owned to be used indefinitely, on any number of projects, as a digital asset, for no further pay.'
This already happens, and has been going on for at least twenty years. When I worked at a VFX studio, we would routinely do high-res scans of actors faces (and bodies, when necessary), and motion-retargeting, etc. is all old tech. Remember the "Young Arnold" from Terminator: Dark Fate?
What the AMPTP is arguing for is a different pay scale for capturing a likeness. Hitherto, it's been negotiated on a per-actor or per-show basis and the scans generally aren't re-used. However, AMPTP wants to change how this works and this is their first offer.
I am not defending their offer: it's prima facie terrible. But the tech and usage of digital doubles in film and TV is not new at all and I think focusing on it distracts from the real issues of residuals and how pay works on streaming.
posted by riotnrrd at 3:50 PM on July 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
This already happens, and has been going on for at least twenty years. When I worked at a VFX studio, we would routinely do high-res scans of actors faces (and bodies, when necessary), and motion-retargeting, etc. is all old tech. Remember the "Young Arnold" from Terminator: Dark Fate?
What the AMPTP is arguing for is a different pay scale for capturing a likeness. Hitherto, it's been negotiated on a per-actor or per-show basis and the scans generally aren't re-used. However, AMPTP wants to change how this works and this is their first offer.
I am not defending their offer: it's prima facie terrible. But the tech and usage of digital doubles in film and TV is not new at all and I think focusing on it distracts from the real issues of residuals and how pay works on streaming.
posted by riotnrrd at 3:50 PM on July 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
If you saw interviews with Harrison Ford about the de-aged first half-hour of Indy 5, he's said they used the images of him in his movies when he was younger to build his younger face. I haven't seen the film but I've heard it's the best fake actor presence we've seen yet.
So they don't even really need your permission to scan you. If you've been in one of their things, or even better several, they already could do you if they wanted. Maybe not as well as younger Indy in this new movie because of the amount of footage and money they have to do that, but they could certainly use you as a background actor if they have anything of you.
posted by hippybear at 4:15 PM on July 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
So they don't even really need your permission to scan you. If you've been in one of their things, or even better several, they already could do you if they wanted. Maybe not as well as younger Indy in this new movie because of the amount of footage and money they have to do that, but they could certainly use you as a background actor if they have anything of you.
posted by hippybear at 4:15 PM on July 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Variety's transcript of Drescher's speech
posted by hippybear at 4:26 PM on July 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 4:26 PM on July 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
For reference, scroll down here to see what the Directors Guild of America was excited to get out of the studios in its "truly historic" deal last month. Some of them made me laugh, like the "groundbreaking" confirmation that AI is not people, and the "Unprecedented reduction in the length of the Assistant Director’s day by one hour" (like that won't be easy to ignore on set).
There was some movement on residuals, particularly in foreign markets, but the concessions the DGA got seem to me a poor substitute for the power to truly change the industry that could have come had all 3 unions stood together. Alas, Spielberg, Nolan, Ava DuVernay, Ron Howard and the rest of the DGA board unanimously recommended the deal and 87% of the members voted to approve, so what do I know.
posted by mediareport at 5:27 PM on July 13, 2023
There was some movement on residuals, particularly in foreign markets, but the concessions the DGA got seem to me a poor substitute for the power to truly change the industry that could have come had all 3 unions stood together. Alas, Spielberg, Nolan, Ava DuVernay, Ron Howard and the rest of the DGA board unanimously recommended the deal and 87% of the members voted to approve, so what do I know.
posted by mediareport at 5:27 PM on July 13, 2023
Management class with ownership aspirations led by owners.
posted by Artw at 5:31 PM on July 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:31 PM on July 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
That reporter who just said that regular people don't care about the issues and just care about not getting watch our shows is a jerk.
Unfortunately, there are people saying "who cares, they're all just overpaid crybabies"
Used to be you'd have to look in your rolodex for the usual cranks to give you your quote. Now, pay Elon $8 and search for the crank to provide the quote you want.
Good to see the union strike. May the strike work for them.
posted by rough ashlar at 6:10 PM on July 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately, there are people saying "who cares, they're all just overpaid crybabies"
Used to be you'd have to look in your rolodex for the usual cranks to give you your quote. Now, pay Elon $8 and search for the crank to provide the quote you want.
Good to see the union strike. May the strike work for them.
posted by rough ashlar at 6:10 PM on July 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
You don’t even need to pay the $8, the bootlickers pay the $8 to be fort in line themselves.
posted by Artw at 6:23 PM on July 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 6:23 PM on July 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
If every investor in the world disappeared
Lets do that idea.
Now lets apply it to Monarch electric tractors.
That product exists because of investors as the creator(s) didn't have the cash personally. So for that product to exist an already existing corporation or well off person would have to decide to spend the money to make the product happen.
Such a proposal would also destroy pensions and most large corporations leaving only those people or families with assets as the way for a Monarch to come into existence.
Wage workers would have to settle for whatever a bank decided to give as interest. Typically less than the rate of inflation so a person gets to work and watch the value of their labor shrink. Having some kind of business the worker establishes as 'investing' is gone isn't gonna mesh with their 9-5 job.
The concentration of wealth would only increase. Which is AN idea.
Not sure how that becomes a net improvement for everyone else.
posted by rough ashlar at 6:38 PM on July 13, 2023
Lets do that idea.
Now lets apply it to Monarch electric tractors.
That product exists because of investors as the creator(s) didn't have the cash personally. So for that product to exist an already existing corporation or well off person would have to decide to spend the money to make the product happen.
Such a proposal would also destroy pensions and most large corporations leaving only those people or families with assets as the way for a Monarch to come into existence.
Wage workers would have to settle for whatever a bank decided to give as interest. Typically less than the rate of inflation so a person gets to work and watch the value of their labor shrink. Having some kind of business the worker establishes as 'investing' is gone isn't gonna mesh with their 9-5 job.
The concentration of wealth would only increase. Which is AN idea.
Not sure how that becomes a net improvement for everyone else.
posted by rough ashlar at 6:38 PM on July 13, 2023
Wage workers would have to settle for whatever a bank decided to give as interest.
Don’t be going ruing someone’s happy thought by presupposing the banks don’t all get burnt down as well.
posted by Artw at 6:46 PM on July 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
Don’t be going ruing someone’s happy thought by presupposing the banks don’t all get burnt down as well.
posted by Artw at 6:46 PM on July 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
That's a weird comment with a lot of weird assumptions; we're talking about people whose only contribution is providing capital and taking a cut of profits for which they haven't worked from people who have, they're not making the world a better place. Admittedly I'm coming at this with my own far-left biases but a better world is possible and we can build it and "investors" who hoard capital and use it to control people are not part of that.
posted by an octopus IRL at 6:49 PM on July 13, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by an octopus IRL at 6:49 PM on July 13, 2023 [10 favorites]
Look I’m just going to use mind magic to make everyone with more than a billion in net worth painlessly evaporate and we’ll see if the world becomes a worse place or not.
posted by Artw at 6:54 PM on July 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:54 PM on July 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
Oh, you know, just throw a Stephen King’s The Dome over this place.
posted by Artw at 6:56 PM on July 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 6:56 PM on July 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Don’t be going ruing someone’s happy thought by presupposing the banks don’t all get burnt down as well.
The plans get better and better.
As people's money is in those banks and the way people get paid is via others extracting money from the banks this bold plan means how does the government get paid?
Because you might handwave landlords, wage jobs, obtaining food, the data services to get to the blue/make phone calls there is one party that will want to be paid and has the power of the jailhouse key.
That's a weird comment with a lot of weird assumptions;
The idea of 'poof! No more investors' is weird I agree. Investors do serve a purpose and the case of the monarch tractor is a concrete example I was refreshing my data in case it became needed to mention for a different thread.
The original price was $50k and while confirming the price rise I came across mention of funding rounds. Spitballing - $250Million. So without investors you are left with old family money or well off people like Zuch/Gates/Musk/Bezos opting to blow 1/4 a Billion. And a couple of those gents don't have that much. If it was $125M that's like most of the powerball's winnings.
Admittedly I'm coming at this with my own far-left biases
At least you admit that. Others are less willing to make admissions.
The proposed idea of 'no more investors' will only make the hording and control worse.
posted by rough ashlar at 7:06 PM on July 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
The plans get better and better.
As people's money is in those banks and the way people get paid is via others extracting money from the banks this bold plan means how does the government get paid?
Because you might handwave landlords, wage jobs, obtaining food, the data services to get to the blue/make phone calls there is one party that will want to be paid and has the power of the jailhouse key.
That's a weird comment with a lot of weird assumptions;
The idea of 'poof! No more investors' is weird I agree. Investors do serve a purpose and the case of the monarch tractor is a concrete example I was refreshing my data in case it became needed to mention for a different thread.
The original price was $50k and while confirming the price rise I came across mention of funding rounds. Spitballing - $250Million. So without investors you are left with old family money or well off people like Zuch/Gates/Musk/Bezos opting to blow 1/4 a Billion. And a couple of those gents don't have that much. If it was $125M that's like most of the powerball's winnings.
Admittedly I'm coming at this with my own far-left biases
At least you admit that. Others are less willing to make admissions.
The proposed idea of 'no more investors' will only make the hording and control worse.
posted by rough ashlar at 7:06 PM on July 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Deeeeeeerrrrtaaaaaaaaaail
posted by oddman at 7:14 PM on July 13, 2023 [13 favorites]
posted by oddman at 7:14 PM on July 13, 2023 [13 favorites]
/slaps “anarcho syndicalism” down on to the derail card pile, sweeps up all the capital counters into hat.
posted by Artw at 7:21 PM on July 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:21 PM on July 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
And I don't think "investors" are the issue, as opposed to "just plain dickishness".
Because the problem is not the guys who fund projects. There are plenty of investors who go into things with the attitude that "I happen to be fortunate enough to have money, and I shall use that money to give people WITHOUT money a chance to do something; and if it turns out to be a bust, them's the breaks I guess, at least they tried and some other people got paid". The problem is the subset of those guys who instead think "since I funded this project I am entitled to preferential treatment and possibly demigod status and a guaranteed ROI".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:43 PM on July 13, 2023 [10 favorites]
Because the problem is not the guys who fund projects. There are plenty of investors who go into things with the attitude that "I happen to be fortunate enough to have money, and I shall use that money to give people WITHOUT money a chance to do something; and if it turns out to be a bust, them's the breaks I guess, at least they tried and some other people got paid". The problem is the subset of those guys who instead think "since I funded this project I am entitled to preferential treatment and possibly demigod status and a guaranteed ROI".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:43 PM on July 13, 2023 [10 favorites]
I wonder if Michael Douglas [SAG] uttering the words in Wall Street as Gordon Gecko [written by a WGA member] "Greed is good", setting off the "maximizing shareholder value" era, knew he was laying the seeds for the downfall of the industry that created his and his family's success.
posted by hippybear at 7:53 PM on July 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 7:53 PM on July 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
And I wonder if Leonardo DiCaprio knows he’s responsible for sinking the Titanic.
posted by zamboni at 9:09 PM on July 13, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by zamboni at 9:09 PM on July 13, 2023 [11 favorites]
The answer to 'lets get rid of vulture capitalists' is not 'well, you'll have to use a different set of vulture capitalists under a different name, and that'd be just as bad or worse!'.
Co-op and mutual societies exist, and have shown there is a more ethical way for people to collectively share and invest capital into new ventures without screwing over either party or making a separate class of investors rich.
The other assumption is 'only rich people have all the money, therefore we must do what they want to make them richer if we want to borrow any'. Wealth inequality can and has been addressed in the past through, for example, government regulation, taxation and spending. It is not an immutable law of nature that it cannot be done again. Socialism is a bad word in America because that benefits the aforementioned rich people, but multiple modern social democracies in Europe have shown it's possible to tamper the excesses of unregulated capitalism, without getting rid of capitalism entirely.
Obviously, the political will must be there to do so though, and that also often arrived in the past along with torches and pitchforks - or a gullotine. You'd think rich people would be smart enough to realise that, but eh, we're in a new gilded age, so who knows.
These are much larger systemic issues though than the topic at hand, which is getting writers and actors a fairer portion of the value of their labour.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 12:20 AM on July 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
Co-op and mutual societies exist, and have shown there is a more ethical way for people to collectively share and invest capital into new ventures without screwing over either party or making a separate class of investors rich.
The other assumption is 'only rich people have all the money, therefore we must do what they want to make them richer if we want to borrow any'. Wealth inequality can and has been addressed in the past through, for example, government regulation, taxation and spending. It is not an immutable law of nature that it cannot be done again. Socialism is a bad word in America because that benefits the aforementioned rich people, but multiple modern social democracies in Europe have shown it's possible to tamper the excesses of unregulated capitalism, without getting rid of capitalism entirely.
Obviously, the political will must be there to do so though, and that also often arrived in the past along with torches and pitchforks - or a gullotine. You'd think rich people would be smart enough to realise that, but eh, we're in a new gilded age, so who knows.
These are much larger systemic issues though than the topic at hand, which is getting writers and actors a fairer portion of the value of their labour.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 12:20 AM on July 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
Oh good, this will give me plenty of time to catch up on classic movies for my blog.Apropos of nothing, I was curious who owned the MeFi ID 666 and stumbled upon put.io - a service run by said Mefite where you can paste a torrent / magnet link and it'll just download it for you and put in your chosen cloud folder.
(And if I'm REALLY REALLY lucky it'll convince Netflix to keep the DVD distribution going instead of cancelling it in September.)
While I'm not calling for piracy here, as one commenter recently said "Piracy isn't stealing if buying isn't owning".
runs off to kiss my excessive and extensive DVD & Blu-Ray collection
posted by revmitcz at 3:31 AM on July 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
Hallmark Researchers Say They Are Close To Developing A Second Movie Plot
Wait, the Babylon Bee actually made an actual funny headline? Whatta timeline we're in...
posted by zardoz at 3:46 AM on July 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
Wait, the Babylon Bee actually made an actual funny headline? Whatta timeline we're in...
posted by zardoz at 3:46 AM on July 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
To make things more confusing, we should also be skeptical about stories put out by Variety, Deadline and even Rolling Stone as they are all owned by Penske Media Corporation and the owner of that is Jay Penske, member of the AMPTP.
posted by LostInUbe at 4:03 AM on July 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by LostInUbe at 4:03 AM on July 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
owned by Penske Media Corporation and the owner of that is Jay Penske, member of the AMPTP
I've seen his file. It's in a flexible accordion-style folder!
posted by Servo5678 at 5:13 AM on July 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
I've seen his file. It's in a flexible accordion-style folder!
posted by Servo5678 at 5:13 AM on July 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Same. Low-fi indie cinema of the 90s was really, really awesome and I'd like to see way more of it.
Run Lola Run.
That said, Pay 👏 People 👏 For 👏 Their 👏 Labor 👏.
posted by ryoshu at 6:09 AM on July 14, 2023
Run Lola Run.
That said, Pay 👏 People 👏 For 👏 Their 👏 Labor 👏.
posted by ryoshu at 6:09 AM on July 14, 2023
I bet Harrison Ford is pissed this morning that IJ&tDoD wasn't a July release so he could fuck off of the press tour.
posted by Etrigan at 6:41 AM on July 14, 2023 [13 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 6:41 AM on July 14, 2023 [13 favorites]
Some good detail in an LA Times story (archive), including the A-list SAG-AFTRA member backlash to Drescher's overly optimistic take on the negotiations a couple of weeks ago, and bits like this:
SAG-AFTRA had asked that 2% of the streaming revenue be distributed to performers who appeared in their most successful movies and shows. Because streaming companies have refused to provide precise viewership data with producers and other creatives, SAG-AFTRA suggested using data from a third party, such as Parrot Analytics, to measure the popularity of streaming programs.
That always was a non-starter for streaming companies, which noted Parrot Analytics largely measures social media conversations that gauge interest in a program — not actual viewership. And they refused to budge on giving show creators the actual audience numbers.
posted by mediareport at 10:32 AM on July 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
SAG-AFTRA had asked that 2% of the streaming revenue be distributed to performers who appeared in their most successful movies and shows. Because streaming companies have refused to provide precise viewership data with producers and other creatives, SAG-AFTRA suggested using data from a third party, such as Parrot Analytics, to measure the popularity of streaming programs.
That always was a non-starter for streaming companies, which noted Parrot Analytics largely measures social media conversations that gauge interest in a program — not actual viewership. And they refused to budge on giving show creators the actual audience numbers.
posted by mediareport at 10:32 AM on July 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Not revealing viewership numbers makes the flames go up my face. Imagine a contract with a book publisher that doesn't factor in royalties on units sold. And yet actors are just left hanging with whatever bullshit the streamers want to pay. Kind of like Facebook and Google with ad impressions. Someone needs a serious financial shellacking, that's for sure.
posted by seanmpuckett at 12:57 PM on July 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 12:57 PM on July 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
Reality shows aren’t SAG-AFTRA, and almost none are WGA. LAT April story.
Many are DGA.
posted by Ideefixe at 1:45 PM on July 14, 2023
Many are DGA.
posted by Ideefixe at 1:45 PM on July 14, 2023
RE: Orange is the New Black, I think it kind of sucks they didn't have viewership numbers, but it's was basically the beginning of the streaming revolution, and building tech to even capture moderately public numbers takes time. Now, Nielsen captures numbers for streamers that are most assuredly not as accurate as Networks' internal numbers, but they are at least something to bring to the negotiating table. But sometimes, it sucks being first.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:45 PM on July 14, 2023
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:45 PM on July 14, 2023
The could put out numbers down to single digits if they felt like it.
posted by Artw at 1:47 PM on July 14, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by Artw at 1:47 PM on July 14, 2023 [9 favorites]
I mean, I can relate to media execs creaming their chinos over finally being able to see, after decades of having to rely on Nielsen/Arbitron/etc giving them rough estimates at best, exactly how many people watch exactly how many minutes of every one of their shows, and then clinging to that data shrieking "Mine! MINE!" while looking over their shoulder at the other execs huddled and shrieking over their own piles of data, but you know TOO FUCKING BAD. Share the information so the people whose labor you exploit can share in the obscene amounts of wealth you're raking in.
On that note, a writer just posted this on Twitter:
The WGA and SAG-AFTRA are dealing mainly with publicly traded companies, companies that have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders.
Netflix, for example, has 88.21% of their shares held by institutional investors - banks, hedge funds, insurance companies, etc....
This morning, Netflix stock hit a 52-week high. They made institutional investors alone $106+ billion dollars this year.
$106 BILLION.
Fran Drescher, for her entire life, is worth $25 million...
Not to mention that, in reality, 87% of SAG-AFTRA union members don't quality for health insurance.
How much do they have to make to qualify? $26,000 a year.
These are working class people, just like you...
The wealthiest 1% hold 53% of ALL stocks. The top 10% hold 88.6% of ALL stocks.
Every dollar these media companies don't give to a writer or actor, they hand to millionaires and billionaires.
When you say actors and writers are spoiled, you're on the wrong side of history.
posted by mediareport at 3:51 PM on July 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
On that note, a writer just posted this on Twitter:
The WGA and SAG-AFTRA are dealing mainly with publicly traded companies, companies that have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders.
Netflix, for example, has 88.21% of their shares held by institutional investors - banks, hedge funds, insurance companies, etc....
This morning, Netflix stock hit a 52-week high. They made institutional investors alone $106+ billion dollars this year.
$106 BILLION.
Fran Drescher, for her entire life, is worth $25 million...
Not to mention that, in reality, 87% of SAG-AFTRA union members don't quality for health insurance.
How much do they have to make to qualify? $26,000 a year.
These are working class people, just like you...
The wealthiest 1% hold 53% of ALL stocks. The top 10% hold 88.6% of ALL stocks.
Every dollar these media companies don't give to a writer or actor, they hand to millionaires and billionaires.
When you say actors and writers are spoiled, you're on the wrong side of history.
posted by mediareport at 3:51 PM on July 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
Striking actor Ron Perlman responds to studio executive who said, "The endgame is to allow things to drag on until union members start losing their houses"
"There's a lot of ways to lose your house. One of them is figuring out who the fuck said that. And where he fucking lives."
posted by Lord Chancellor at 4:07 PM on July 14, 2023 [33 favorites]
"There's a lot of ways to lose your house. One of them is figuring out who the fuck said that. And where he fucking lives."
posted by Lord Chancellor at 4:07 PM on July 14, 2023 [33 favorites]
Why try to find out where that one guy who said that lives when we know who they all are and could easily research all their addresses with a little effort?
posted by hippybear at 4:18 PM on July 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 4:18 PM on July 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
The WGA and SAG-AFTRA are dealing mainly with publicly traded companies, companies that have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders.
You know who else publicly traded companies have a responsibility to? The People who created the artificial legal entity, via an act by the Secretary of State. If there's no benefit for The People, why would The People create ALEs in the first place? If they don't like it, they can forego limited liability and enjoy unlimited personal liability.
posted by mikelieman at 11:57 PM on July 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
You know who else publicly traded companies have a responsibility to? The People who created the artificial legal entity, via an act by the Secretary of State. If there's no benefit for The People, why would The People create ALEs in the first place? If they don't like it, they can forego limited liability and enjoy unlimited personal liability.
posted by mikelieman at 11:57 PM on July 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
The WGA and SAG-AFTRA are dealing mainly with publicly traded companies, companies that have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders.
"fiduciary responsibility" is often invoked as a weasel way to infer that companies are required-by-law to squeeze-out absolutely every possible half-cent of profit, which is, of course, utter bullshit. There is no such responsibility. About the only actual responsibility a company owes to its shareholders is to not run the company into the ground, which paying actors and writers a fair wage absolutely would not do.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:19 AM on July 15, 2023 [5 favorites]
"fiduciary responsibility" is often invoked as a weasel way to infer that companies are required-by-law to squeeze-out absolutely every possible half-cent of profit, which is, of course, utter bullshit. There is no such responsibility. About the only actual responsibility a company owes to its shareholders is to not run the company into the ground, which paying actors and writers a fair wage absolutely would not do.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:19 AM on July 15, 2023 [5 favorites]
Andor's Tony Gilroy says streaming data secrecy is "close to ruining this amazing industry"
posted by Artw at 9:40 AM on July 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:40 AM on July 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
I will say I've felt for years and years the refusing to say "this many people watched a show" and instead say "this is a gigantic show on our platform" is really kind of strange.
There's a guy on YouTube, I can't remember his name right now, who does viewer numbers by taking some data from a party that reports how many minutes people spent watching a thing, and doing some math against the length of the thing, and tries to find a number that might, possibly, if you squint, are the number of people who actually watched the whole thing and didn't nope out at any point.
I appreciate what he's trying to do, but it's mostly using a scrye glass and crystal ball to determine actual metrics that could be actually made public.
I know Neilsen isn't/wasn't much better, relying a lot of self-reporting [I've been paid by Nielsen to keep a television diary twice], but they do actually ship out units that do true measuring of viewing by a statistically significant number of people. These streaming services actually HAVE THE REAL DATA. They aren't shipping things out over public airwaves with no notice of who is tuning in. They have actual, real paying membership numbers and they track everything everyone has watched.
The system is foul, and needs to be changed.
posted by hippybear at 2:22 PM on July 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
There's a guy on YouTube, I can't remember his name right now, who does viewer numbers by taking some data from a party that reports how many minutes people spent watching a thing, and doing some math against the length of the thing, and tries to find a number that might, possibly, if you squint, are the number of people who actually watched the whole thing and didn't nope out at any point.
I appreciate what he's trying to do, but it's mostly using a scrye glass and crystal ball to determine actual metrics that could be actually made public.
I know Neilsen isn't/wasn't much better, relying a lot of self-reporting [I've been paid by Nielsen to keep a television diary twice], but they do actually ship out units that do true measuring of viewing by a statistically significant number of people. These streaming services actually HAVE THE REAL DATA. They aren't shipping things out over public airwaves with no notice of who is tuning in. They have actual, real paying membership numbers and they track everything everyone has watched.
The system is foul, and needs to be changed.
posted by hippybear at 2:22 PM on July 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
There's a guy on YouTube, I can't remember his name right now, who does viewer numbers by taking some data from a party that reports how many minutes people spent watching a thing, and doing some math against the length of the thing, and tries to find a number that might, possibly, if you squint, are the number of people who actually watched the whole thing and didn't nope out at any point.
Sounds like Dan Murrell. His Charts with Dan videos are pretty informative. He did a pretty good video on the strike.
posted by Pendragon at 2:34 PM on July 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
Sounds like Dan Murrell. His Charts with Dan videos are pretty informative. He did a pretty good video on the strike.
posted by Pendragon at 2:34 PM on July 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
Yes, Dan Murrell is his name. Thank you. I was completely blank.
posted by hippybear at 3:01 PM on July 15, 2023
posted by hippybear at 3:01 PM on July 15, 2023
DId you even read the article?
...the Dune series has a largely British cast and is therefore working under that region’s Equity contracts. Not long after the strike’s start, SAG-AFTRA said that its members under said contracts may “continue to report to work.”
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 8:13 PM on July 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
...the Dune series has a largely British cast and is therefore working under that region’s Equity contracts. Not long after the strike’s start, SAG-AFTRA said that its members under said contracts may “continue to report to work.”
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 8:13 PM on July 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
Nobody who is a SAG-AFTRA member would scab this strike because once the unions do get a contract, nobody who scabbed during the strike would ever work again.
posted by hippybear at 8:37 PM on July 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 8:37 PM on July 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
Dune: The Sisterhood a scab show.
No it isn't.
posted by Pendragon at 9:38 PM on July 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
No it isn't.
posted by Pendragon at 9:38 PM on July 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
SAG-AFTRA Can Bar Non-Member Social Media Influencers From Guild Admission If They Promote For Studios During Strike [Deadline]
posted by hippybear at 1:13 PM on July 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 1:13 PM on July 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
@ChrisStephensMD: Universal decimates shade trees {SLTwitter} with a "trimming" that were providing shade to striking workers (links includes picture of hack job). 90F temperatures forecast for the week.
posted by Mitheral at 6:19 PM on July 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Mitheral at 6:19 PM on July 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
SAG-AFTRA just released a new comparison of the actors' proposals and the studio/streamer responses. There's also a detailed pdf chart of SAG proposals and AMPTP counters like the one the WGA put out a few months back.
posted by mediareport at 9:45 PM on July 17, 2023
posted by mediareport at 9:45 PM on July 17, 2023
My friend Patrick Wong expressed the issue with ownership of captured data very well, I think, in response to a post about David J. Fielding getting paid $150 for one day of work and then having his likeness used for Zordon in every episode of Power Rangers in 1993:
---
I mean… I guess this is an example of if Hollywood CAN get away with it they will most certainly do it.
But maybe a better example of the data question in relation to Hollywood is the reason why Jet Li was not cast as Seraph as intended.
Jet Li declined because he didn’t want the motion capture data to be owned by anyone else for eternity.
Think about it.
You spend your life's work training. Some janky producer who doesn’t give two shits worth about the blood sweat and tears to get the training wants to OWN that shit for eternity and use it whenever they want and basically pull a zordon on your life’s work.
They WILL do it.
And Jet Li is right. So maybe folks ought to pay attention to the writer’s strike and governments need to be regulating things cuz this has been a problem for a loooooong time now and nobody’s done a thing about it and finally writer’s and actors are getting savvy to how problematic it is.
This all happened all the way back at Matrix Revolutions... so 2003 it was at the forefront of Jet Li's business mind... he'd have had 9 guys working out the choreo and it'd have been 6 months work. Literally they would have all his data, and depending on who laid claim to that data, imagine if AI were able to glean it, combine it and do "stuff" with it that didn't make any sense without the experience of how to utilize the moves...
posted by clawsoon at 5:59 AM on July 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
---
I mean… I guess this is an example of if Hollywood CAN get away with it they will most certainly do it.
But maybe a better example of the data question in relation to Hollywood is the reason why Jet Li was not cast as Seraph as intended.
Jet Li declined because he didn’t want the motion capture data to be owned by anyone else for eternity.
Think about it.
You spend your life's work training. Some janky producer who doesn’t give two shits worth about the blood sweat and tears to get the training wants to OWN that shit for eternity and use it whenever they want and basically pull a zordon on your life’s work.
They WILL do it.
And Jet Li is right. So maybe folks ought to pay attention to the writer’s strike and governments need to be regulating things cuz this has been a problem for a loooooong time now and nobody’s done a thing about it and finally writer’s and actors are getting savvy to how problematic it is.
This all happened all the way back at Matrix Revolutions... so 2003 it was at the forefront of Jet Li's business mind... he'd have had 9 guys working out the choreo and it'd have been 6 months work. Literally they would have all his data, and depending on who laid claim to that data, imagine if AI were able to glean it, combine it and do "stuff" with it that didn't make any sense without the experience of how to utilize the moves...
posted by clawsoon at 5:59 AM on July 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
Hollywood Reporter: The Last Time Actors and Writers Both Went on Strike: How Hollywood Ended the 1960 Crisis. The president of SAG was Ronald Reagan.
On the night of April 4, in the middle of the strike negotiations, both sides paused to attend the 32nd Academy Awards at the Pantages. Reagan had hoped to surprise the audience with an announcement that the strike had been settled, but negotiations remained at an impasse. The MC for the evening, of course, was Bob Hope, hosting the Oscars with the ninth time. "Welcome to Hollywood's most glamorous strike meeting," he said. "I never thought I'd live to see the day when Ronald Reagan was the only actor working."
posted by riruro at 12:19 PM on July 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
On the night of April 4, in the middle of the strike negotiations, both sides paused to attend the 32nd Academy Awards at the Pantages. Reagan had hoped to surprise the audience with an announcement that the strike had been settled, but negotiations remained at an impasse. The MC for the evening, of course, was Bob Hope, hosting the Oscars with the ninth time. "Welcome to Hollywood's most glamorous strike meeting," he said. "I never thought I'd live to see the day when Ronald Reagan was the only actor working."
posted by riruro at 12:19 PM on July 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
Hope was actually pretty funny by modern standards: "quippy" might be a better word, but I definitely still laugh at some of the stuff he said.
posted by wenestvedt at 12:29 PM on July 18, 2023
posted by wenestvedt at 12:29 PM on July 18, 2023
Yeah, he did the set-up/punchline really well. It's a different kind of comedy from today, truly. Although I do remember seeing Hope spin out a yarn where every line was a joke that built on the preceding joke, one punchline after another building up into something sublime.
posted by hippybear at 12:32 PM on July 18, 2023
posted by hippybear at 12:32 PM on July 18, 2023
You know, I'm suddenly wondering, much like SAG and AFTRA joined together earlier... if maybe WGA might be brought into the fold somehow. I understand these are very different industries, but it's possible that these two/three unions might be realizing that they will need to stand together before the New Regime in Hollywood.
I've seen some chatter here and there that the studio heads might attempt to rebuild the studio system with all in-house employees so they have full control.
Anyway, it's a very passing thought, but the idea of having actors and writers banded together in mutual aid for labor is somehow heartening to me.
posted by hippybear at 1:37 PM on July 19, 2023
I've seen some chatter here and there that the studio heads might attempt to rebuild the studio system with all in-house employees so they have full control.
Anyway, it's a very passing thought, but the idea of having actors and writers banded together in mutual aid for labor is somehow heartening to me.
posted by hippybear at 1:37 PM on July 19, 2023
WAPGA - Writers Actors and Performers Guild of America
posted by hippybear at 2:25 PM on July 19, 2023
posted by hippybear at 2:25 PM on July 19, 2023
Writers are first because without the writers, what are the actors and performers?
posted by hippybear at 2:25 PM on July 19, 2023
posted by hippybear at 2:25 PM on July 19, 2023
So I was not expecting my JOB SEARCH to be affected by the strike....
So, my first stop after getting laid off on Monday was to hit up the employment agency in the business campus where I worked (they got me THIS job, and it only took them a month). I went in today for the initial intake, and talked to 3 agents who all said it was a little slow this month, but it usually is and they had ideas anyway and would start beating bushes.
And then one of them admitted to me that he actually knew of a position I'd be PERFECT for, as the office assistant for a scenic design and set building shop they had. They had even just begun the process of placing an ad with their agency....and then the WGA strike happened, and the scene shop's biggest client was SNL, so....they paused it.
...A perfect Exhibit A for "why paying actors and writers is important" and why the CEOs are being dicks. Being stubborn little babies and boasting that they're going to wait out the writers until the writers lose their houses just shows that they don't get that the writers aren't the only ones affected:
* There are scene shop workers (carpenters, electricians, etc.) who also don't get work.
* Same with camera guys.
* And production assistants.
* And the people in the finance offices for a given show.
* And the makeup and hair people.
* And costumers.
* And dressers.
* Et cetera.
....In fact, the makeup and hair people would also be affected by the proposal that background actors come in for AI scanning for just one day and the studios can just edit their digital image. It's not just the actor who only gets one days' work - the costumers and makeup and hair artists also lose out.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:40 PM on July 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
So, my first stop after getting laid off on Monday was to hit up the employment agency in the business campus where I worked (they got me THIS job, and it only took them a month). I went in today for the initial intake, and talked to 3 agents who all said it was a little slow this month, but it usually is and they had ideas anyway and would start beating bushes.
And then one of them admitted to me that he actually knew of a position I'd be PERFECT for, as the office assistant for a scenic design and set building shop they had. They had even just begun the process of placing an ad with their agency....and then the WGA strike happened, and the scene shop's biggest client was SNL, so....they paused it.
...A perfect Exhibit A for "why paying actors and writers is important" and why the CEOs are being dicks. Being stubborn little babies and boasting that they're going to wait out the writers until the writers lose their houses just shows that they don't get that the writers aren't the only ones affected:
* There are scene shop workers (carpenters, electricians, etc.) who also don't get work.
* Same with camera guys.
* And production assistants.
* And the people in the finance offices for a given show.
* And the makeup and hair people.
* And costumers.
* And dressers.
* Et cetera.
....In fact, the makeup and hair people would also be affected by the proposal that background actors come in for AI scanning for just one day and the studios can just edit their digital image. It's not just the actor who only gets one days' work - the costumers and makeup and hair artists also lose out.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:40 PM on July 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
Storyboard artists and pre-vis are probably dead. Also maybe choreographers and stunt coordinators, because are studios going to pay for them to continue creating their things even for finished scripts if there are no actors.
Scenery, lighting.
This is the entire industry in the US shutting down.
And the DGA. What deal at the crossroads do they hope they've made to leave the rest of their industry in quicksand?
posted by hippybear at 2:46 PM on July 19, 2023
Scenery, lighting.
This is the entire industry in the US shutting down.
And the DGA. What deal at the crossroads do they hope they've made to leave the rest of their industry in quicksand?
posted by hippybear at 2:46 PM on July 19, 2023
I'm reminded of a thing I saw on Mastodon earlier, that I can't trace down, that was about a headline something like UPS Drivers Going On Strike Will Plunge Economy Into Chaos, and the question was why isn't the headline UPS Owners And CEOs Greed Will Plung Economy Into Chaos?
Similar headlines in Los Angeles press, etc.
posted by hippybear at 2:52 PM on July 19, 2023
Similar headlines in Los Angeles press, etc.
posted by hippybear at 2:52 PM on July 19, 2023
SAG-AFTRA’s Rejected Contract Demands Seem Beyond Reasonable
posted by Artw at 3:21 PM on July 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 3:21 PM on July 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm like ... SHUT IT ALL DOWN ... I want to see like that little guy in Airplane who pulled the plug on the runway lights, just cackling. Only he's not kidding. The more people and industries striking, the sooner shit gets fixed for everyone.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:54 PM on July 19, 2023
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:54 PM on July 19, 2023
Couple of gossipy tidbits in Variety's new cover story, Showstopper! Strikes Plunge Hollywood Into Chaos With Pricey Movie Delays, Pay Battles and AI Anxiety:
Drescher has come to suspect that the studios had a very specific reason for prolonging talks, and it wasn’t to hammer out a better deal. “They just wanted to get more time to promote their summer movies, and they had no intention of using that extension for anything else,” she claims...
The stakes are so high on summer films like “Dead Reckoning Part One,” “Barbie” and “Oppenheimer” that Tom Cruise asked SAG-AFTRA to allow movie stars to continue promoting their new films, given the challenging theatrical landscape, sources say. The union countered by asking Cruise to join the picket lines, noting that having one of the world’s biggest movie stars visibly in its corner would send a strong message to the studios. Cruise was noncommittal, but offered to assist in other ways.
Also, the story continues the unhelpful thing that every other story seems to do on the background actors/AI stuff: repeat the studio's contention that the actors are wrong when they claim studios want to pay a background actor for 1 day's work and then use their likeness for free in perpetuity, but don't then ask the studios "Ok, so how *would* your proposal work? How exactly would the "requirement for performer’s consent for the creation and use of digital replicas or for digital alterations of a performance" play out on the ground? How often would the actor be paid? How often would you ask them for permission, and what happens if they say no?" Etc.
I'd love to see someone repeatedly ask those questions until the studios give a specific answer.
posted by mediareport at 6:40 PM on July 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Drescher has come to suspect that the studios had a very specific reason for prolonging talks, and it wasn’t to hammer out a better deal. “They just wanted to get more time to promote their summer movies, and they had no intention of using that extension for anything else,” she claims...
The stakes are so high on summer films like “Dead Reckoning Part One,” “Barbie” and “Oppenheimer” that Tom Cruise asked SAG-AFTRA to allow movie stars to continue promoting their new films, given the challenging theatrical landscape, sources say. The union countered by asking Cruise to join the picket lines, noting that having one of the world’s biggest movie stars visibly in its corner would send a strong message to the studios. Cruise was noncommittal, but offered to assist in other ways.
Also, the story continues the unhelpful thing that every other story seems to do on the background actors/AI stuff: repeat the studio's contention that the actors are wrong when they claim studios want to pay a background actor for 1 day's work and then use their likeness for free in perpetuity, but don't then ask the studios "Ok, so how *would* your proposal work? How exactly would the "requirement for performer’s consent for the creation and use of digital replicas or for digital alterations of a performance" play out on the ground? How often would the actor be paid? How often would you ask them for permission, and what happens if they say no?" Etc.
I'd love to see someone repeatedly ask those questions until the studios give a specific answer.
posted by mediareport at 6:40 PM on July 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Warner Bros. Animation and Cartoon Network Production Workers Launch Unionization Effort
posted by Artw at 9:28 AM on July 20, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:28 AM on July 20, 2023 [5 favorites]
Warner Bros. Animation and Cartoon Network Production Workers Launch Unionization Effort
SOLIDARITY NOW!
Would love it if this strike by creative industry workers is catalyst for a great social reset, and we can maybe start valuing labor (and people) before capital. We can either be the Jetsons or the Flintstones, but not both.
posted by LooseFilter at 9:48 AM on July 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
SOLIDARITY NOW!
Would love it if this strike by creative industry workers is catalyst for a great social reset, and we can maybe start valuing labor (and people) before capital. We can either be the Jetsons or the Flintstones, but not both.
posted by LooseFilter at 9:48 AM on July 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
Would love it if this strike by creative industry workers is catalyst for a great social reset, and we can maybe start valuing labor (and people) before capital. We can either be the Jetsons or the Flintstones, but not both.
To paraphrase one of my favorite quotes from Babylon 5: The capitalists learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again.
posted by rhymedirective at 10:21 AM on July 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
To paraphrase one of my favorite quotes from Babylon 5: The capitalists learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again.
posted by rhymedirective at 10:21 AM on July 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
Good news: Snoop Dogg shows solidarity, cancels concerts.
Bad news: Rolling Stone (owned by the same holding corporation as Variety and Deadline) attempts to shame him for doing so.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:08 PM on July 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
Bad news: Rolling Stone (owned by the same holding corporation as Variety and Deadline) attempts to shame him for doing so.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:08 PM on July 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
Stuntmen show the world extreme picketing.
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:42 PM on July 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:42 PM on July 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
Marvel Studios' VFX Staff Is Aiming to Unionize
posted by Artw at 5:47 PM on August 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:47 PM on August 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
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