“We did not, above all else, want to be characterized as a militia.”

July 17, 2023 7:52 AM

Oops. DeSantis' new State Guard, which in an unusual move is under his "direct command, rather than under the state Department of Military Affairs and the National Guard," doesn't pass the smell test by members of other state guards.
posted by coffeecat (64 comments total)

"My 'not a militia' camo-print uniform has people asking a lot of questions already answered by my uniform."
posted by BungaDunga at 8:05 AM on July 17, 2023 [27 favorites]

Archive link.
posted by Mitheral at 8:05 AM on July 17, 2023 [7 favorites]

Not just other state guards; it doesn't pass the smell test by their own recruits. The original reporting from the Tampa Bay Times and the Miami Herald is worth reading, the linked NYT is a good summary.

Instead, the state’s National Guard trained the volunteers for combat. Khakis and polos were replaced by camouflaged uniforms. Volunteers assured they could keep their facial hair were ordered to shave. And they were drilled on how to rappel with ropes, navigate through the woods and respond to incidents under military command.

Imagine if the 2024 election gets a little contentious and DeSantis calls in his private army to "secure the vote". 1500 trained military with guns, beholden to no one but DeSantis.
posted by Nelson at 8:07 AM on July 17, 2023 [36 favorites]

2000's Brooks Brothers riot on steroids. Literally.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 8:14 AM on July 17, 2023 [12 favorites]

But the deployment this spring has been mired in internal turmoil, with some recruits complaining that what was supposed to be a civilian disaster response organization had become heavily militarized, requiring volunteers to participate in marching drills and military-style training sessions on weapons and hand-to-hand combat.

It must be weird as hell to live in Florida and be in any way connected to the real world where insurance won’t cover you against disasters that will surely sweep away your home, but it would be political death for anyone in power to acknowledge there is climate crisis. And now the local despot has a personal death squad that was theoretically supposed to help but is actually for waging the “war on woke” and, I don’t know, invading Disneyland or some shit.
posted by Artw at 8:16 AM on July 17, 2023 [38 favorites]

You know who else was big on state security police being fielded with camo patterns?
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 8:16 AM on July 17, 2023 [6 favorites]

I thought camouflage was used in order to hide. I would assume you would want emergency people to be highly visible. This whole thing stinks of DeSanctimonious trying to man-up with his own army. Another tube gone down as this country descends into…
posted by njohnson23 at 8:21 AM on July 17, 2023 [9 favorites]

Can we put Desantis, Trump and Musk on a rocket to space with a cage in the middle for a Zero G Death-Match.
posted by symbioid at 8:26 AM on July 17, 2023 [8 favorites]

Yes, it's frightening to think that one reason the GOP denies climate change is that they think the instability it will produce will work in their favor. What's to stop other governors from taking inspiration from this and making their state guards be under their direct command too?
posted by coffeecat at 8:27 AM on July 17, 2023 [4 favorites]

It must be weird as hell to live in Florida and be in any way connected to the real world where insurance won’t cover you against disasters that will surely sweep away your home, but it would be political death for anyone in power to acknowledge there is climate crisis.

Surface ocean temperatures along the Florida coast are approaching 100 F this week. They would ordinarily be in the upper 80s. Warm ocean waters intensify storms. But yeah, we don't talk about climate change.

The psy op campaigns perpetrated by oil companies for the last 40 years will easily rank among the most consequentially evil actions ever taken in human history.
posted by cubeb at 8:28 AM on July 17, 2023 [55 favorites]

I think an organized civilian volunteer force to help with natural disasters would have been a great idea. But of course they decide to "tough" it up.

I was in the Florida National Guard (NG) after my regular Army service to help pay through college. That NG is a combat unit with about half the members coming directly from the Army and Marines... and therefore sees everything through that lens. We trained with special forces in the major national training centers and went to Iraq. Absolutely the wrong team to be training a civilian rescue team. Jesus, it's "search and destroy" vs "search and rescue."

Weapons and hand-to-hand training? Hell no! I participated in hurricane relief, and even then you had state troopers and police around to handle that because you absolutely don't want military folks making decisions with civilians. Both ways too...in conflict the military is too hard, and if it's something like evicting someone from their business, we wouldn't do it. "Fuck no, I'm not pointing a weapon at a guy who is just trying to save his home. Have fun, you Statey dick."

My best advice, make the uniform bright pink, and you'll weed out the folks you don't want doing the search and rescue job.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 8:32 AM on July 17, 2023 [49 favorites]

Trump and Allies Forge Plans to Increase Presidential Power in 2025 (gift link)

Donald J. Trump and his allies are planning a sweeping expansion of presidential power over the machinery of government if voters return him to the White House in 2025, reshaping the structure of the executive branch to concentrate far greater authority directly in his hands...

“Our current executive branch,” Mr. McEntee added, “was conceived of by liberals for the purpose of promulgating liberal policies. There is no way to make the existing structure function in a conservative manner. It’s not enough to get the personnel right. What’s necessary is a complete system overhaul.”

We need to start taking Republicans seriously when they declare their intent to establish a Fascist regime.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:34 AM on July 17, 2023 [86 favorites]

Sincere question -

What is the point at which the Pentagon would be compelled to step in and say "yo, you're a governor building your own full-on army here, and that goes against Federal security"?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:36 AM on July 17, 2023 [20 favorites]

The conservative position is that a strong executive is a king in all but name. Don't these bozos read their own founding fathers? What am I saying, of course they don't.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 8:37 AM on July 17, 2023 [6 favorites]

I think an organized civilian volunteer force to help with natural disasters would have been a great idea.

We have one already! It's called the National Guard. However, it is under federal control. The point of the Florida State Guard is to give DeSantis his own private militia. And the military training and abuse of recruits makes it clear it's not a disaster relief organization.

I debated posting that Trump / Presidential Power link here since it's a bit of a derail. But it's definitely relevant. The difference is the President already has his own army, although in the US it's blessedly independent politically. So far there's no reporting that part of the transition planning includes subverting the military leadership, but maybe that's coming. Anyway, the Economist has two great articles this week also on the Trump 2024 authoritarian plans: a short one and a detailed one.
posted by Nelson at 8:38 AM on July 17, 2023 [3 favorites]

strong executive is a king in all but name

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4460868/user-clip-dictator
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 8:40 AM on July 17, 2023 [1 favorite]

We have one already! It's called the National Guard.

Yes I agree, but I'm thinking of something without the heavy weaponry.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 8:41 AM on July 17, 2023

Ah, the ol' Sulla and Marius trick.
posted by moonbiter at 8:43 AM on July 17, 2023 [16 favorites]

Your friendly reminder that this is exactly what the SS & SA were for the Nazis before 1933: a paramilitary force under political control to enforce their agenda outside of the machinery of law. Then once the they came to power, they were placed above the regular military in the hierarchy.
posted by Jon_Evil at 8:46 AM on July 17, 2023 [50 favorites]

Yes, it's frightening to think that one reason the GOP denies climate change is that they think the instability it will produce will work in their favor.

I have no doubt in my mind they will eventually pivot to full ecofash: yes, climate disasters are real, but it is the fault of overpopulation specifically all those terrible minorities, and we must devote all efforts to building walls to keep them out.
posted by Artw at 8:48 AM on July 17, 2023 [9 favorites]

Artw, that's already happening. One guy I kinda knew (I knew someone who knew him and he'd show up sometimes) was a right winger and said we absolutely need to build a wall because with climate change a lot of the poorer parts of the world will have problems and they'll try to come here to escape them and we can't have that so we need a wall to keep them out. The ecofascists already exist. We just don't hear about them much. Yet.
posted by downtohisturtles at 9:02 AM on July 17, 2023 [7 favorites]

PNW has a bunch of them, but it’s fringe. I’m assuming mainstream GOP will flip as one eventually.
posted by Artw at 9:05 AM on July 17, 2023 [1 favorite]

I mean, I get that with the chances of multiple natural disasters happening simultaneously, it makes sense that states (particularly those prone to hurricanes, like Florida) would want a supplementary State Guard. But clearly regulations are needed to prevent these from being misused.
posted by coffeecat at 9:09 AM on July 17, 2023 [1 favorite]

The super-scary part of this neo-militia is it's "authorized" to work out-of-state. The DeSantis SA, anybody?
posted by Thorzdad at 9:10 AM on July 17, 2023 [10 favorites]

We need to start taking Republicans seriously when they declare their intent to establish a Fascist regime.

Everyone's fucking aware. However, a third of the population is all in for fascism.
posted by tavella at 9:10 AM on July 17, 2023 [28 favorites]

What they said they were building sounds like a Community Emergency Response Team (a.k.a. "CERT"), though what they built is either shock troops or a Praetorian guard.

I help run a community farm, and my suburban town's CERT folks assist our annual harvest festival by managing traffic into the parking areas. Their equipment is day-go vests, flashlights, and radios. No guns, no weapons training, no camo.

Like Abehammerb Lincoln says, make them wear bright pink ("You know, for safety") and weed out the bullies.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:22 AM on July 17, 2023 [22 favorites]

Trump ran for President and tried to become a dictator.

DeSantis is flat out running for dictator.
posted by jamjam at 9:24 AM on July 17, 2023 [17 favorites]

One more comment. Don't worry too much about the effectiveness of this unit against the real military. 28 days marching and a single weapons class at Camp Blanding does not make a prepared unit. They wouldn't last as long as the Branch Davidians in a stand up fight. And hopefully this shit doesn't last through DeSantis' next and hopefully final term.

Now to disrupt voting and intimidate protesters? Yeah, perfect group for that.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:27 AM on July 17, 2023 [18 favorites]

There are also already AmeriCorps Disaster Response Teams, which are indeed civilian disaster response teams.
posted by hydropsyche at 9:29 AM on July 17, 2023 [9 favorites]

Now to disrupt voting and intimidate protesters? Yeah, perfect group for that.

There’s a reason the GOP used to idolize the Russian army.
posted by Artw at 9:30 AM on July 17, 2023 [2 favorites]

Can we put Desantis, Trump and Musk on a rocket to space with a cage in the middle for a Zero G Death-Match.

Not to forget Jeff Creepy Laugh Bezos and Howard Latte Nazi Schultz.
posted by y2karl at 9:40 AM on July 17, 2023 [3 favorites]

Instead, the state’s National Guard trained the volunteers for combat. Khakis and polos were replaced by camouflaged uniforms. Volunteers assured they could keep their facial hair were ordered to shave. And they were drilled on how to rappel with ropes, navigate through the woods and respond to incidents under military command.

These guys are training for an invasion of Disney World!

DeSantis may bring a completely new dimension to 'hostile takeovers' of US corporations.
posted by jamjam at 9:40 AM on July 17, 2023 [3 favorites]

The conservative position is that a strong executive is a king in all but name. Don't these bozos read their own founding fathers? What am I saying, of course they don't.

On the contrary, the founding fathers described tyranny and the exact precautions they were taking against it. It gives the fascists a roadmap for what to disband.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:46 AM on July 17, 2023 [2 favorites]

These guys are training for an invasion of Disney World!

No, then instead of camouflage they would be training in Mickey Mouse and Disney Princess costumes. Which I would pay to see.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:48 AM on July 17, 2023 [3 favorites]

In the initial law authorizing Florida's State Guard, it was indeed going to be entirely about disaster relief and similar activities. There was no authorization to carry weapons or even operate out of state for mutual aid purposes.

But then, as with many other things like repealing the resign-to-run law, the Legislature saw fit to go nutballs and authorized SS..erm tactical response units that can carry weapons, enabled out of state operations, and also increased the authorized size of the force.

The first iteration wasn't particularly concerning beyond the fact that DeSantis would be in charge, as it pretty much mirrored what other states that have similar organizations have allowed, some of which have been in place for decades. Full fash came later.
posted by wierdo at 10:11 AM on July 17, 2023 [5 favorites]

...it pretty much mirrored what other states that have similar organizations...

Wait, other states have similar Panhandle Gestapo, too?
posted by wenestvedt at 10:36 AM on July 17, 2023

Similar to what Florida's was initially supposed to be, yes. AFAIK there aren't any other states that gave their Governor their very own SA.

Well, in a sense they all do, but only to the extent that the National Guard is notionally under state control (though operating under rules established by the feds) until activated by the President, at which time they are effectively a branch of the US military.
posted by wierdo at 10:59 AM on July 17, 2023 [1 favorite]

The Texas Rangers are independent of the National Guard. They're more like police than military but it's a little unique. Of course, many local police forces have been militarized in the past couple of decades but they tend not to be trained or organized like a military force.
posted by Nelson at 11:08 AM on July 17, 2023 [1 favorite]

The danger I worry about here isn't that the Florida State Guard or the Texas Rangers are going to win a shooting war with the US Army. What I'm worried about is they're organized enough that they could swoop in to "secure" ballot boxes in, say, Houston or Miami. Or go down to the Mexico border and start bossing around immigrants. An organized group with guns under governor control can do a lot of damage before court orders and jurisprudence sorts out the mess.
posted by Nelson at 11:10 AM on July 17, 2023 [19 favorites]

My assumption is that in most states the closest equivalent would be the “the Proud Boy/Patriot Prayer pals of the local police”.
posted by Artw at 11:13 AM on July 17, 2023 [1 favorite]

Or go down to the Mexico border and start bossing around immigrants

You’re a bit late on that one. It’s been happening for years.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:19 AM on July 17, 2023 [2 favorites]

Don't worry too much about the effectiveness of this unit against the real military.

Thing is, I'm pretty sure the US Army is more-or-less forbidden from taking direct military action within the borders of the US, against US citizens. I assume they can defend their own bases with force, of course. But, to roll-out against DeSantis' SA is not something they're liable to do, failing some outrageously dire circumstances.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:36 AM on July 17, 2023 [2 favorites]

No, the president absolutely has the authority to use the military to suppress an insurrection.
posted by BungaDunga at 11:53 AM on July 17, 2023 [3 favorites]

Thus the "outrageously dire circumstances" part.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:59 AM on July 17, 2023

Thus the "outrageously dire circumstances" part.

George H. W. Bush invoked the insurrection act to send the U.S. Armed Forces to Los Angeles for the Rodney King riots, albeit with the consent of the California government.

The point being that insurrection is in the mind of the President. While those riots were dire, it takes a stretch to consider them a threat to the government.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:16 PM on July 17, 2023 [5 favorites]

Eisenhower didn't need Arkansas to agree to send in the 101st Airborne to Little Rock. If a governor tried to shut down an election by force, that would be more than enough legal justification for doing the same.
posted by BungaDunga at 12:21 PM on July 17, 2023 [11 favorites]

"The Michigan State Police and the National Guard arrived to reinforce police and fire units. Clashes between the mayor and Governor George Romney—both of whom had presidential aspirations—and President Lyndon Johnson increased confusion and delayed the deployment of federal troops."

"Shortly before midnight on Monday, July 24, President Johnson authorized the use of federal troops in compliance with the Insurrection Act of 1807, which authorizes the President to call in armed forces to fight an insurrection in any state against the government.[61] This gave Detroit the distinction of being the only domestic American city to have been occupied by federal troops three times."
posted by clavdivs at 12:59 PM on July 17, 2023 [5 favorites]

From the NYTimes article, 17 states besides Florida have State Guards - none report directly to the governor though, and would appear to be limited to disaster relief (i.e. not militant at all).
posted by coffeecat at 1:43 PM on July 17, 2023 [2 favorites]

Mod note: Weight / fat joke removed.
posted by taz (staff) at 1:52 AM on July 18, 2023 [6 favorites]

I’m sure it will be fine. What’s the worst that could happen? /s
posted by blue_beetle at 7:12 AM on July 18, 2023

Texas troopers told to push children into Rio Grande, deny water to migrants, records say. The thugs here are the Texas State Troopers, a police force that's mostly about highway patrol but are increasingly militarized. They've been involved in several aggressive border enforcement operations in the past few years. I believe they are fully under state control, not federal.

(Posting this partly in response to Tell Me No Lies' comment about how these quasi-military state organizations have been harassing immigrants at the border for years already. They're right, and this group is one of the primary examples.)
posted by Nelson at 8:47 AM on July 18, 2023 [4 favorites]

Side discussion: there's a lot of discontent in the Texas National Guard (the real Army, not the quasi-military) because they've been deployed for many years as basically a political prop for the "border crisis":

Texas national guardsmen say their mission to secure the border is a waste of time and resources
National Guard leaders insist that guardsmen really love all those extra missions

These are people with normal jobs and families, who signed up for real emergencies (or wars), and have been ordered to leave all of it behind to do nothing at the border and get paid little for it (state service, unlike federal, does not give you the nice "military" perks like health insurance or veteran status), leading to suicides and all other kinds of major issues.
posted by meowzilla at 2:19 PM on July 18, 2023 [3 favorites]

There's a really good scifi or horror story lurking in the concept of an invasion of Disneyland. Like... The CEO of Disney turns a dial from PEACE to WAR and all the animatronics get glowing red eyes and the Main Street facade drops to reveal the laser cannons, and the hidden scent dispensers start ejecting toxic gasses and hallucinogens and oh dear God don't ask about the utility corridors.... Brb, gotta make more notes for this....
posted by Jacen at 2:20 PM on July 18, 2023 [4 favorites]

Jacen, there's kinda a Simpsons episode like that. No cannons or gas but when they go to Itchy and Scratchy Land the robots turn evil and get red eyes and go after everyone. Not quite the same but as always "Simpsons Did It".
posted by downtohisturtles at 3:09 PM on July 18, 2023 [3 favorites]

What does their uniforms look like? Brown shirts, maybe?
posted by Jane the Brown at 7:38 PM on July 18, 2023 [1 favorite]

Perhaps they’ll take their inspiration from an English author with deep experience of Nazis on both sides of the Channel and become 'the Black Shorts'.
posted by jamjam at 11:59 PM on July 18, 2023 [1 favorite]

Can someone go yell "Eulalie" at de santis and see if that fixes things?
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 4:19 AM on July 20, 2023 [1 favorite]

Students at Florida public schools will now learn that Black people benefitted from slavery because it taught them skills. This change is part of the African American history standards the State Board of Education approved at a Wednesday meeting.
posted by Artw at 8:41 AM on July 20, 2023 [4 favorites]

Arts, I am gobsmacked and angry that anyone quoted in the story is said to be "defending" the new curriculum, but, well, it's Florida.

Jeeeeeesus, Florida -- WTAF?
posted by wenestvedt at 9:04 AM on July 20, 2023 [2 favorites]

DeSantis announces inquiry into Bud Light's parent company over partnership with trans influencer
posted by Artw at 4:49 PM on July 21, 2023

What is it with governors from Florida and Texas dressing up in military-like cosplay? DeSantis is just missing some tin-plated medals on his chest.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 6:52 PM on July 21, 2023

Alpha Phi Alpha moves 2025 convention out of Florida over ‘racist’ policies
posted by Artw at 7:44 PM on July 26, 2023 [2 favorites]

Let’s spare ourselves the euphemisms. This isn’t an issue of being too online; this is an issue of using fascist content to push a political agenda.
posted by Artw at 9:34 AM on July 28, 2023 [1 favorite]

What is it with governors from Florida and Texas dressing up in military-like cosplay? DeSantis is just missing some tin-plated medals on his chest.

Got a Reichsmarschall Nancy Sinatra costume for Halloween for sure.
posted by y2karl at 3:34 PM on August 6, 2023