toxicity persists and worsens in highly competitive games
July 21, 2023 11:31 AM Subscribe
Despite Advancements, Games Still Aren't Doing Enough To Stop Toxic Voice Chat by Alyssa Mercante [Kotaku] “I started regularly playing competitive online games in 2007, with the launch of Halo 3. Back then, participating in in-game voice chat was harrowing for a 17-year-old girl whose voice betrayed her gender and her youth. I was subjected to such frequent and horrific hostility (rape threats, misogynist remarks, sexually inappropriate comments, you name it) that I eventually started screaming back, a behavior my parents still bring up today. And yet, voice chat is essential in competitive online games, especially modern ones like Call of Duty: Warzone, Apex Legends, Fortnite, Valorant, and Overwatch. All of these popular games require extensive amounts of teamwork to succeed, which is bolstered by being able to chat with your teammates. But in-game voice chat remains a scary, toxic place—especially for women. [...] I spoke to several women about their voice chat experiences, as well as reps from some of today’s biggest online games, to get a better understanding of the current landscape.”
The answer is simple - there needs to be actual fucking consequences. And until there are, this will continue to persist.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:09 PM on July 21, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:09 PM on July 21, 2023 [9 favorites]
6 out of 10 players said they had, at least once, quit a session or match or quit a game completely because they were subjected to hate and harassment within that gaming community.
6 out of 10 players reported they had, at least once, chosen to not spend money in a game because of how other players treated them in that community.
7 out of 10 players reported avoiding playing certain games because of the reputation of the community.
posted by one for the books at 12:28 PM on July 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
6 out of 10 players reported they had, at least once, chosen to not spend money in a game because of how other players treated them in that community.
7 out of 10 players reported avoiding playing certain games because of the reputation of the community.
posted by one for the books at 12:28 PM on July 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
This excerpt from the article stood out to me most:
posted by Fizz at 12:30 PM on July 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
“I think more than anything it is a cultural problem,” said Alice. “FPS games are ‘for boys’ and until we change that perception, I think people will continue to be rude in them, especially when there are minimal consequences.”☝🏽☝🏽☝🏽☝🏽☝🏽☝🏽
Game studios can and should center more women and marginalized creators, players, and developers in marketing materials, streams, and esports events—and they should make it explicitly clear that a toxic culture has no place in their games. Instead of shying away from providing details on banned or otherwise penalized players as a result of toxic behavior, studios should wear them like a badge of honor, presenting them proudly as a way of saying “you have no place here.”
posted by Fizz at 12:30 PM on July 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
Jessica finds that reporting players in Overwatch or CS:GO is virtually useless. “I can’t think of a single case where it felt like [Blizzard] or Valve directly took action,” she said. Overwatch has a feature that will show you a pop-up upon login if the team has taken action against someone you’ve reported, but many players rarely (if ever) see that login. I’ve only ever seen it once.
This is, if not the primary problem, one of the biggest ones. Occasional consequences for harassment and abuse won't change the culture. The article talks about developments in moderation systems that sound good, but they won't work if toxic players feel like they probably won't be banned, and if they are, it will just be for a few days. These companies need enough manpower to reliably review reports and issue long-term or permanent bans, but that's expensive.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 12:40 PM on July 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
This is, if not the primary problem, one of the biggest ones. Occasional consequences for harassment and abuse won't change the culture. The article talks about developments in moderation systems that sound good, but they won't work if toxic players feel like they probably won't be banned, and if they are, it will just be for a few days. These companies need enough manpower to reliably review reports and issue long-term or permanent bans, but that's expensive.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 12:40 PM on July 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
I've been playing online games since before there were online games, I'm the core demographic for this stuff (cis white male), and I have always avoided voice chat in online games. I have probably tried it twice because it made me feel so uncomfortable.
The hateful speech and attitudes are completely pervasive, but also people just kinda treat each other like shit often enough that I didn't even want try any more. I didn't want to open up this weird portal to venom and meanness into my life, especially not while doing something that was supposed to be entertaining.
I won't ever understand the experience women have in this space, but I just can't imagine how they tolerate it. It seems awful that you can enjoy a thing so much to get past the part that constantly hurts you, and that that part will always be there. I'm not expressing that well but maybe the point comes through.
We're only five years past Ubisoft instituting automatic bans for using racial slurs in Rainbow Six Siege, a thing that seems like it should've been common place way before 2018, but I guess progress is progress, better late than never. There are also examples of game design itself making these interactions less negative, like only providing positive feedback options for other players and letting the omission of an endorsement be the negative, rather than explicit options to send negative sentiments to other players. And then there are games like Kind Words where the whole point is saying nice things to internet strangers. Maybe the arc of the online-interpersonal-behavior universe will bend towards civility, but I think we'll have to be very patient, unfortunately.
posted by mmcg at 12:55 PM on July 21, 2023 [13 favorites]
The hateful speech and attitudes are completely pervasive, but also people just kinda treat each other like shit often enough that I didn't even want try any more. I didn't want to open up this weird portal to venom and meanness into my life, especially not while doing something that was supposed to be entertaining.
I won't ever understand the experience women have in this space, but I just can't imagine how they tolerate it. It seems awful that you can enjoy a thing so much to get past the part that constantly hurts you, and that that part will always be there. I'm not expressing that well but maybe the point comes through.
We're only five years past Ubisoft instituting automatic bans for using racial slurs in Rainbow Six Siege, a thing that seems like it should've been common place way before 2018, but I guess progress is progress, better late than never. There are also examples of game design itself making these interactions less negative, like only providing positive feedback options for other players and letting the omission of an endorsement be the negative, rather than explicit options to send negative sentiments to other players. And then there are games like Kind Words where the whole point is saying nice things to internet strangers. Maybe the arc of the online-interpersonal-behavior universe will bend towards civility, but I think we'll have to be very patient, unfortunately.
posted by mmcg at 12:55 PM on July 21, 2023 [13 favorites]
These companies need enough manpower to reliably review reports and issue long-term or permanent bans, but that's expensive.
The main problem isn't manpower.
The main problem is that the game studios have abusers among their ranks. It's not surprising at all that the games that pop up frequently just happen to be the games made by companies with cultures of abuse. If you want abuse to be treated seriously, then we need to get abusers out of the industry.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:07 PM on July 21, 2023 [15 favorites]
The main problem isn't manpower.
The main problem is that the game studios have abusers among their ranks. It's not surprising at all that the games that pop up frequently just happen to be the games made by companies with cultures of abuse. If you want abuse to be treated seriously, then we need to get abusers out of the industry.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:07 PM on July 21, 2023 [15 favorites]
These companies need enough manpower to reliably review reports and issue long-term or permanent bans, but that's expensive.
The main problem isn't manpower.
The main problem is profit seeking.
It is profitable to not have content complaint reviewers. So they won't be there.
Some A/B testing is needed where one pays extra to be on a server which offers the abuse policing and ones that don't to see which is more profitable.
posted by rough ashlar at 1:15 PM on July 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
The main problem isn't manpower.
The main problem is profit seeking.
It is profitable to not have content complaint reviewers. So they won't be there.
Some A/B testing is needed where one pays extra to be on a server which offers the abuse policing and ones that don't to see which is more profitable.
posted by rough ashlar at 1:15 PM on July 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
The main problem is that the game studios have abusers among their ranks.
Yup. When an apple is rotten on the inside, doesn't matter how pretty it looks on the outside, its also terrible and eventually it'll start to show.
posted by Fizz at 1:16 PM on July 21, 2023
Yup. When an apple is rotten on the inside, doesn't matter how pretty it looks on the outside, its also terrible and eventually it'll start to show.
posted by Fizz at 1:16 PM on July 21, 2023
It is profitable to not have content complaint reviewers. So they won't be there.
In the short term. In the long term, abuse crowds out users who get tired of being attacked and choose to leave.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:20 PM on July 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
In the short term. In the long term, abuse crowds out users who get tired of being attacked and choose to leave.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:20 PM on July 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
In the long term, abuse crowds out users who get tired of being attacked and choose to leave.
The long-term consequences of lack of moderation in a nutshell.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 3:35 PM on July 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
The long-term consequences of lack of moderation in a nutshell.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 3:35 PM on July 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
I report every time someone uses a slur or inappropriate comment in games, and I see that aforementioned popup fairly frequently. It's irritating when I don't know who or what punishment, though. A lot of them end up just being temporary voice chat bans, I suspect, which isn't much of a punishment if you were already using the voice chat for harassment instead of properly playing the game.
posted by Scattercat at 7:38 PM on July 21, 2023
posted by Scattercat at 7:38 PM on July 21, 2023
I've been playing online games since before there were online games, I'm the core demographic for this stuff (cis white male), and I have always avoided voice chat in online games.
Same here. I mostly play racing games and I turned on the voice chat every now and then and I've never heard more racial slurs in my life.
Also every now and then I set my car's color to bright pink and entered a multiplayer race and I would almost always hear misogynist words and pick-up lines. BECAUSE A CAR WAS PINK.
I always reported them but the flow of slime was endless and I had to just turn off voices so I could enjoy the game.
The fundamental problem is that if you give a 14-year-old boy a megaphone and no consequences, you're going to have problems. And it's even worse when the 14-year-old boy runs a game company.
posted by mmoncur at 8:33 PM on July 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
Same here. I mostly play racing games and I turned on the voice chat every now and then and I've never heard more racial slurs in my life.
Also every now and then I set my car's color to bright pink and entered a multiplayer race and I would almost always hear misogynist words and pick-up lines. BECAUSE A CAR WAS PINK.
I always reported them but the flow of slime was endless and I had to just turn off voices so I could enjoy the game.
The fundamental problem is that if you give a 14-year-old boy a megaphone and no consequences, you're going to have problems. And it's even worse when the 14-year-old boy runs a game company.
posted by mmoncur at 8:33 PM on July 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
I don't bother with multiplayer games anymore, except for the occasional match in Forza Horizon 5. Thankfully, Horizon neither requires voice chat nor even seems to have it on by default.
Voice chat is a terrible thing and I would never willingly turn it on in public games anymore. I could see turning it on if I had a bunch of friends and we were the only ones who could talk to each other but frankly that's not a reality I've ever had the pleasure of experiencing, so as far as I'm concerned voice chat could disappear completely and the world would be a better place.
Apex Legends' biggest innovation was coming up with a system that let you engage in basic team communication without having to speak a single word.
posted by chrominance at 10:36 PM on July 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
Voice chat is a terrible thing and I would never willingly turn it on in public games anymore. I could see turning it on if I had a bunch of friends and we were the only ones who could talk to each other but frankly that's not a reality I've ever had the pleasure of experiencing, so as far as I'm concerned voice chat could disappear completely and the world would be a better place.
Apex Legends' biggest innovation was coming up with a system that let you engage in basic team communication without having to speak a single word.
posted by chrominance at 10:36 PM on July 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
I don’t play any games with voice chat, but I play MtG and Blood Bowl. The newest video game versions of those removed the mutably text chat completely. Can’t say I’m a fan of dealing with the problem of toxic players by not dealing with it.
They still find a way to be obnoxious somehow and everybody else gets punished by removing the nice social interactions that happened as well.
posted by the_dreamwriter at 2:57 AM on July 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
They still find a way to be obnoxious somehow and everybody else gets punished by removing the nice social interactions that happened as well.
posted by the_dreamwriter at 2:57 AM on July 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
Apex Legends' biggest innovation was coming up with a system that let you engage in basic team communication without having to speak a single word.
This is one of the (many) things I love about the multiplayer in the Souls games and Elden Ring. There's technically voice chat, but nobody ever uses it and so nobody will notice or care if you've disabled it.
Players use the in-game gestures to communicate instead. There are also in-game items that make your character "speak" various positive phrases (in Elden Ring there's one that says "You're beautiful"). Some players don't bother with either of these, and communicate impatience or excitement by spamming the "block" or "crouch" actions.
Good nonverbal times. Of course it's still possible to be toxic within these limitations (and players can still hatemail you directly through PSN or XBL or Steam), but it takes more effort than simply running your mouth in voice chat. If someone's bothering you, you can simply send them home, or leave the session if you were summoned to another player's game.
posted by neckro23 at 7:52 AM on July 22, 2023
This is one of the (many) things I love about the multiplayer in the Souls games and Elden Ring. There's technically voice chat, but nobody ever uses it and so nobody will notice or care if you've disabled it.
Players use the in-game gestures to communicate instead. There are also in-game items that make your character "speak" various positive phrases (in Elden Ring there's one that says "You're beautiful"). Some players don't bother with either of these, and communicate impatience or excitement by spamming the "block" or "crouch" actions.
Good nonverbal times. Of course it's still possible to be toxic within these limitations (and players can still hatemail you directly through PSN or XBL or Steam), but it takes more effort than simply running your mouth in voice chat. If someone's bothering you, you can simply send them home, or leave the session if you were summoned to another player's game.
posted by neckro23 at 7:52 AM on July 22, 2023
The main problem isn't manpower.
I'd say that "manpower" (the sexist, misogynistic patriarchy) is indeed the problem.
posted by tiny frying pan at 8:28 AM on July 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
I'd say that "manpower" (the sexist, misogynistic patriarchy) is indeed the problem.
posted by tiny frying pan at 8:28 AM on July 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
I’ve just really never done online games, largely because of this. Up until very recently all of my gaming has been on consoles, where you typically have to add on a monthly fee for online capability, and why the fuck would I want to pay monthly for the opportunity to have some twelve year old kid call me some slurs? The little mic headsets that came with my Xboxes and PlayStations just lie forgotten in a box of cables. I just got a Steam Deck so now online play *could* be free, which means I *could* potentially do things like try hooking up with some friends in a private game where I trust everyone to be a sensible adult, but it sure is a long road to figuring out how to make that work and where the intersection of “games I’m interested in playing” is with that.
posted by egypturnash at 9:03 AM on July 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by egypturnash at 9:03 AM on July 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
Interpersonal communication was a mistake.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:20 AM on July 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:20 AM on July 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
The very first time I played an online multiplayer game and enabled the voice chat, I was immediately met with two slurs, the f-word and the n-word. I was only in the game lobby and this being the first thing I heard put me off of online-multiplayer games for about a decade or more.
It's 2023 and I play all kinds of multiplayer games but I never bother with the chat and if I'm matched up with strangers, I just ignore the communication part of it entirely and do my own thing. It's just not worth engaging with in my experience, even if you try to report or try to shift the conversation by calling out bad players, not much ever happens. It really sucks. The only time I ever bother is when I am playing with a personal friend and then we're just chatting via discord.
I really wish these corporations would figure out their shit and take a proper stance against this kind of hate speech and abuse. But here we are....
*sighs*
posted by Fizz at 9:59 AM on July 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
It's 2023 and I play all kinds of multiplayer games but I never bother with the chat and if I'm matched up with strangers, I just ignore the communication part of it entirely and do my own thing. It's just not worth engaging with in my experience, even if you try to report or try to shift the conversation by calling out bad players, not much ever happens. It really sucks. The only time I ever bother is when I am playing with a personal friend and then we're just chatting via discord.
I really wish these corporations would figure out their shit and take a proper stance against this kind of hate speech and abuse. But here we are....
*sighs*
posted by Fizz at 9:59 AM on July 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
As always, Nintendo was right, voice chat is the Devil, everyone who ever criticized them for holding off on it for so long owes them an apology.
posted by star gentle uterus at 12:17 PM on July 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by star gentle uterus at 12:17 PM on July 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
I am a woman who has played FPS multiplayer games online for decades. I was a clan leader for Day of Defeat, and have run servers for DoD 1/2, CS, and TF2. I'm old and jaded now, and can deal with whatever if needed. But the amount of misogynistic shit I've had to deal with is stacked up so high, I basically now only talk in games with my friends (thank you, MefightClub!). I'm a decent Overwatch player, but I never do competitive games because I just have no patience for dealing with this sort of toxic masculinity. The last time I tried to play comp alone... well, let's not repeat what was said to me.
I have had decades to develop a tough skin and really mostly avoid it these days. But it makes me furious how little is being done. I'm scared for any younger women who want to enjoy my hobby.
The only way forward is for other men to call out the toxic behavior when they see/hear it. It's not that hard, but hardly anyone ever does. Yet it's the only thing that would move the needle, IMHO.
posted by gemmy at 6:17 PM on July 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
I have had decades to develop a tough skin and really mostly avoid it these days. But it makes me furious how little is being done. I'm scared for any younger women who want to enjoy my hobby.
The only way forward is for other men to call out the toxic behavior when they see/hear it. It's not that hard, but hardly anyone ever does. Yet it's the only thing that would move the needle, IMHO.
posted by gemmy at 6:17 PM on July 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
I don't like the idea upthread for games to offer moderated spaces which cost more (as an incentive, I suppose, for companies to follow the money), because a good experience should be the default, not an up-charge.
Flip that and make it cost way more to play in an unmoderated space. Use that money to pay mods or pay to develop software to spot Civility Violators.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:06 AM on July 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
Flip that and make it cost way more to play in an unmoderated space. Use that money to pay mods or pay to develop software to spot Civility Violators.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:06 AM on July 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
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posted by star gentle uterus at 11:43 AM on July 21, 2023 [29 favorites]