1948, 1971 ... 2024?
August 18, 2023 1:38 PM Subscribe
There's no sign that the WGA and SAG-AFTRA strikes will let up anytime soon, as Hollywood creatives ratchet up the rhetoric by calling for the breakup of the studios on antitrust grounds. As Matt Stoller reports, this makes strange bedfellows: "Most of the public noise during this period of chaos is coming from the more labor oriented activist-types, but behind the scenes, the serious financiers and producers are worried as well, because the ability to actually make money by making and distributing films and TV shows is falling apart."
the serious financiers and producers are worried as well, because the ability to actually make money by making and distributing films and TV shows is falling apart
[Jerry Seinfeld "That's a shame" gif]
Guess, we'll just have to get by off of A24, indie films, low budget genre films, and international films.
(Hereby inviting anyone who doesn't hang out on FF to check my posts there and imagine the maniacal glee with which I am laughing)
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:47 PM on August 18, 2023 [27 favorites]
[Jerry Seinfeld "That's a shame" gif]
Guess, we'll just have to get by off of A24, indie films, low budget genre films, and international films.
(Hereby inviting anyone who doesn't hang out on FF to check my posts there and imagine the maniacal glee with which I am laughing)
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:47 PM on August 18, 2023 [27 favorites]
The AMPTP seem to be currently trying to rebuild broadcast and cable television only with each of them as individual national providers, something that's never been done before. Streaming is proving to be wildly unprofitable, and their retreat into commercial supported tiers and alternate services only proves they've made a gigantic gamble on streaming that turned out to be a huge mistake.
If they were smart, they'd do a retreat. They'd pull all new shows off of streaming services except for a few prestige projects and some cult level stuff, and put their efforts into promoting their already hugely profitable television/cable networks and first-run movie theater releases. They need to be getting their money up front for these shows, which they currently are NOT doing. They're putting them on streaming which is just a fixed revenue stream, there's no direct Reward For Quality there anymore because there's so much original streaming content people don't remain subscribers anymore. They sub for a month here, and a month there...
Getting television advertising revenue and box office receipts would allow these studios to recoup costs without having to bleed dry the very people who create the product they want to sell.
The other big revenue stream, similar to syndication on television, is licensing to a streaming service. You get paid to have someone else stream a thing you created. You made a thing, you probably got profit off of it on television or a theatrical release, but now someone else pays you a lump sum of money, maybe a shitton, maybe not but it's still more income, and you don't have to do a thing other than give them permission and some media files.
All these streaming services have gotten it all entirely backward. Netflix did their thing because they were still mailing DVDs to people's houses for money. HBO was doing their thing because of cable subscription fees. I find it insane that Iger is talking about spinning off ABC and ESPN because they don't fit into a new corporate vision, when those are probably the most money-making parts of their entire enterprise right now outside of merchandising.
Anyway, yes, break up the studios. I don't know if requiring Amazon and Apple to separate their studios from their core business would allow what they're offering us, which is pretty good overall, to continue to exist. They're each tiny divisions compared to the Mothership business.
I mean, at the very least, one part of the old Studio System that had to die was where studios owned their own movie theater chains. How is that any different from owning your own streaming platform?
The AMPTP didn't have to dig themselves into this hole, but now they're about to have their entire supply chain collapse, and maybe breaking them up is the only way to save them.
Thank you for attending my TED talk.
posted by hippybear at 1:51 PM on August 18, 2023 [35 favorites]
If they were smart, they'd do a retreat. They'd pull all new shows off of streaming services except for a few prestige projects and some cult level stuff, and put their efforts into promoting their already hugely profitable television/cable networks and first-run movie theater releases. They need to be getting their money up front for these shows, which they currently are NOT doing. They're putting them on streaming which is just a fixed revenue stream, there's no direct Reward For Quality there anymore because there's so much original streaming content people don't remain subscribers anymore. They sub for a month here, and a month there...
Getting television advertising revenue and box office receipts would allow these studios to recoup costs without having to bleed dry the very people who create the product they want to sell.
The other big revenue stream, similar to syndication on television, is licensing to a streaming service. You get paid to have someone else stream a thing you created. You made a thing, you probably got profit off of it on television or a theatrical release, but now someone else pays you a lump sum of money, maybe a shitton, maybe not but it's still more income, and you don't have to do a thing other than give them permission and some media files.
All these streaming services have gotten it all entirely backward. Netflix did their thing because they were still mailing DVDs to people's houses for money. HBO was doing their thing because of cable subscription fees. I find it insane that Iger is talking about spinning off ABC and ESPN because they don't fit into a new corporate vision, when those are probably the most money-making parts of their entire enterprise right now outside of merchandising.
Anyway, yes, break up the studios. I don't know if requiring Amazon and Apple to separate their studios from their core business would allow what they're offering us, which is pretty good overall, to continue to exist. They're each tiny divisions compared to the Mothership business.
I mean, at the very least, one part of the old Studio System that had to die was where studios owned their own movie theater chains. How is that any different from owning your own streaming platform?
The AMPTP didn't have to dig themselves into this hole, but now they're about to have their entire supply chain collapse, and maybe breaking them up is the only way to save them.
Thank you for attending my TED talk.
posted by hippybear at 1:51 PM on August 18, 2023 [35 favorites]
"...but when I found out that a strike means business stops and we can't make money, you could have knocked me over with a feather!"
It's incredibly important to note that the studios were losing billions before the strike.
posted by rhymedirective at 1:57 PM on August 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
It's incredibly important to note that the studios were losing billions before the strike.
posted by rhymedirective at 1:57 PM on August 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
also, it’s not important but nevertheless amusing to note that until the “wait, if we don’t make movies we don’t make money?!?” penny dropped, the line from the studios was that the strike has driven up their profits — making movies is expensive, and as long as the strike is on they don’t have to throw away potential profits on any of that nonsense.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 2:12 PM on August 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 2:12 PM on August 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
The movie industry is catching up with the music industry.
posted by Chuffy at 2:12 PM on August 18, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by Chuffy at 2:12 PM on August 18, 2023 [9 favorites]
Yeah, as Stoller, Adam Conover and others have pointed out, the studios all jumped aboard Netflix's SPEND LIKE CRAZY ON NEW CONTENT TO STREAM OURSELVES AND DAMN THE PROFITS strategy, which was certainly a choice, and now that they see it can't work, and they've broken a working system, they're at sea.
Here's a direct link to the PDF the Writers Guild West just put out, mentioned by Stoller in his piece: The New Gatekeepers: How Disney, Amazon, and Netflix Will Take Over Media. From the executive summary:
Streaming video is now the dominant distribution platform for content, but it is largely unregulated, taking the problems of vertical integration and media consolidation to the extreme. Streaming’s dominant employers have used their leverage to erode the sustainability of writing work; further consolidation could result in fewer writers able to earn a living and diminished variety in the marketplace of ideas. It is crucial that antitrust agencies and lawmakers take the following actions to protect the future of media:
1. Block further consolidation;
2. Proactively investigate anti-competitive issues and outcomes; and
3. Increase regulation and oversight in streaming.
posted by mediareport at 2:13 PM on August 18, 2023 [14 favorites]
Here's a direct link to the PDF the Writers Guild West just put out, mentioned by Stoller in his piece: The New Gatekeepers: How Disney, Amazon, and Netflix Will Take Over Media. From the executive summary:
Streaming video is now the dominant distribution platform for content, but it is largely unregulated, taking the problems of vertical integration and media consolidation to the extreme. Streaming’s dominant employers have used their leverage to erode the sustainability of writing work; further consolidation could result in fewer writers able to earn a living and diminished variety in the marketplace of ideas. It is crucial that antitrust agencies and lawmakers take the following actions to protect the future of media:
1. Block further consolidation;
2. Proactively investigate anti-competitive issues and outcomes; and
3. Increase regulation and oversight in streaming.
posted by mediareport at 2:13 PM on August 18, 2023 [14 favorites]
It's incredibly important to note that the studios were losing billions before the strike.
Well yes, because every movie loses money.
posted by rhizome at 2:14 PM on August 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
Well yes, because every movie loses money.
posted by rhizome at 2:14 PM on August 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
‘The Peripheral’ Canceled; Prime Video Not Proceeding With Season 2 Amid Lengthy Strikes
posted by jazon at 2:16 PM on August 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by jazon at 2:16 PM on August 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
It is crucial that antitrust agencies and lawmakers take the following actions to protect the future of media:
Good thing there is local, if not living, history of dealing with this kind of thing. Which I'm sure everybody concerned is thinking about and waiting for, so keep the rhetorical powder dry, etc.
posted by rhizome at 2:17 PM on August 18, 2023
Good thing there is local, if not living, history of dealing with this kind of thing. Which I'm sure everybody concerned is thinking about and waiting for, so keep the rhetorical powder dry, etc.
posted by rhizome at 2:17 PM on August 18, 2023
I'm kind of sad about The Peripheral but also I can't tell if I liked it or was just hungry for something to watch at the time.
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:19 PM on August 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:19 PM on August 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
I'm here to support the unions. I feel like the outcome of this strike is critical to the future of unionism in America, as if this might be a pivot point.
It's because of who is under attack here. Creative people. People with novel ideas and ways of expressing them. If you know anything about history, you will recognize that those are the most dangerous people. Art is dangerous, it has power that echoes through culture and ages.
Artists will tell this story, same as always. And that story will become part of culture, same as always. But the story of this strike, that's a story about the power in a union, that's a story that needs to become part of culture again and forever.
There is power in a union.
posted by adept256 at 2:21 PM on August 18, 2023 [53 favorites]
It's because of who is under attack here. Creative people. People with novel ideas and ways of expressing them. If you know anything about history, you will recognize that those are the most dangerous people. Art is dangerous, it has power that echoes through culture and ages.
Artists will tell this story, same as always. And that story will become part of culture, same as always. But the story of this strike, that's a story about the power in a union, that's a story that needs to become part of culture again and forever.
There is power in a union.
posted by adept256 at 2:21 PM on August 18, 2023 [53 favorites]
Guess, we'll just have to get by off of A24, indie films, low budget genre films, and international films.
For all my love of sweeping, huge, epic movies like, Dune and Lord of the Rings and shit, one of my favorite movies that came out in the last 10 years was a budget science fiction film that maybe isn't as grand, but is a good story, had a really small budget (the short was filmed for $20k raised on kickstarter), and was mostly started to give prop builders living in Seattle something to do with the props they were building in their off time, and filmed basically in their backyard. It started as a short, and then got bought up for a full release. No one I've talked to has ever seen it, and its really well done, especially considering the scope (and Pedro Pascal as this space-western-accidental-daddy is, IMHO, better than the Mandalorian by like a wide margin).
I wish more studios were cooperatives, or full anarcho-syndicates. Has anyone approached Mondragon to get into the movie buisness?
posted by furnace.heart at 2:32 PM on August 18, 2023 [26 favorites]
For all my love of sweeping, huge, epic movies like, Dune and Lord of the Rings and shit, one of my favorite movies that came out in the last 10 years was a budget science fiction film that maybe isn't as grand, but is a good story, had a really small budget (the short was filmed for $20k raised on kickstarter), and was mostly started to give prop builders living in Seattle something to do with the props they were building in their off time, and filmed basically in their backyard. It started as a short, and then got bought up for a full release. No one I've talked to has ever seen it, and its really well done, especially considering the scope (and Pedro Pascal as this space-western-accidental-daddy is, IMHO, better than the Mandalorian by like a wide margin).
I wish more studios were cooperatives, or full anarcho-syndicates. Has anyone approached Mondragon to get into the movie buisness?
posted by furnace.heart at 2:32 PM on August 18, 2023 [26 favorites]
(Prospect was a great little scifi film, furnace.heart. And it's streaming free in lots of places right now!)
posted by mediareport at 2:36 PM on August 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by mediareport at 2:36 PM on August 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
I fully support the unions and I don't think they are a significant factor in the ongoing collapse of the industry. Whether streaming was a mistake or not, I am pretty sure the solution has to be something new. I do think humans will keep producing movie and TV in the future. I don't think we can go back to TV advertising model or as much dependence on theaters. It has been more than ten years since I watched a significant amount of tv with commercials and I basically only see it in airports or at the homes of older relatives, but just I would rather not ever watch anything again. Theaters are okay, but they need something better than popcorn and "nachos" if they want people to come given that so many people have great home video setups.
It will be interesting to see what happens. Newspapers have struggled with these changes and the result has mostly been collapse of the industry with a fewer big institutions hanging on while they try to find a way to success. Music has concerts at least. I guess we'll see what film and TV do.
posted by snofoam at 2:38 PM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
It will be interesting to see what happens. Newspapers have struggled with these changes and the result has mostly been collapse of the industry with a fewer big institutions hanging on while they try to find a way to success. Music has concerts at least. I guess we'll see what film and TV do.
posted by snofoam at 2:38 PM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
every movie loses money.
Yes, this was just in the news.
posted by eye of newt at 2:38 PM on August 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yes, this was just in the news.
posted by eye of newt at 2:38 PM on August 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
And it's streaming free in lots of places right now
I do not mean this to be a total asshat, but maybe rent or buy it to put some bucks in the creator's pockets? Isn't that part of the point here? Their own website points to apple TV, maybe thats where they could get the best returns?
posted by furnace.heart at 2:40 PM on August 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
I do not mean this to be a total asshat, but maybe rent or buy it to put some bucks in the creator's pockets? Isn't that part of the point here? Their own website points to apple TV, maybe thats where they could get the best returns?
posted by furnace.heart at 2:40 PM on August 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
If the survival of the industry relies on the innovation of just not paying people then the industry does not deserve to survive.
posted by Artw at 3:01 PM on August 18, 2023 [13 favorites]
posted by Artw at 3:01 PM on August 18, 2023 [13 favorites]
but maybe rent or buy it to put some bucks in the creator's pockets?
Ouch, but not really sure that's fair. I'm not sure how much better the free ad-supported TV (FAST) stuff at places like Tubi might be for creators over someplace like AppleTV, which is notorious for not sharing viewership numbers. I wonder if there's at least a bit more accountability in terms of payment at Tubi, which would track ad impressions? Does Apple just give out a lump sum at the start? Will the creators of Prospect actually get more money if more people watch it via AppleTV instead of Tubi?
I dunno. Someone with more info please feel free to school me; all I know is it's a mess to sort out.
posted by mediareport at 3:07 PM on August 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
Ouch, but not really sure that's fair. I'm not sure how much better the free ad-supported TV (FAST) stuff at places like Tubi might be for creators over someplace like AppleTV, which is notorious for not sharing viewership numbers. I wonder if there's at least a bit more accountability in terms of payment at Tubi, which would track ad impressions? Does Apple just give out a lump sum at the start? Will the creators of Prospect actually get more money if more people watch it via AppleTV instead of Tubi?
I dunno. Someone with more info please feel free to school me; all I know is it's a mess to sort out.
posted by mediareport at 3:07 PM on August 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
The numerous well known accounting shenanigans common in the film industry make me very skeptical of these claims by studios and producers.
posted by interogative mood at 3:15 PM on August 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 3:15 PM on August 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
Oh man, mediareport, again, not meant to be mean or direct that towards you in any way. Part of this whole situation is how opaque streaming anything is regarding revenue. It's chaos, and impossible for even an 'informed consumer' to navigate. I would assume the creators would publish the most revenue positive, but like, who knows?
But DVD's of it also exist. They might exist at your local library. Go socialism and check it out at your local library. If they don't have a copy, contact your local library and suggest they buy a copy for everyone!
posted by furnace.heart at 3:18 PM on August 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
But DVD's of it also exist. They might exist at your local library. Go socialism and check it out at your local library. If they don't have a copy, contact your local library and suggest they buy a copy for everyone!
posted by furnace.heart at 3:18 PM on August 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
I think the piece of this that a lot of people are missing is that the studios are not losing money because of accounting shenanigans, or because they can't currently make tv shows and movies.
They're losing money because they have pretty much all chased after an illusory business strategy of vertical integration and it's not working. They've been losing money for years. Disney Plus has never been profitable. Paramount Plus has never been profitable. Max has never been profitable. And there is no path to profitability for any of them as long as they remain vertically integrated monstrosities.
The studios should be broken up. Production companies should be legally barred from distribution, and vice versa.
This happened (at least) twice before, and in both cases it led to a increase in the quality of movies and television shows being produced, because independent producers had a real shot at getting their movies and tv shows distributed. It's the reason that American television in the 1960s is mostly remember for dreck and American television in the 1970s is mostly remembered for high-quality cultural touchstones like The Mary Tyler Moore Show and All in the Family. The federal government legally barred the networks from owning the shows they aired.
The WGA and SAG-AFTRA are striking because the studios have turned the industry into a vertically integrated low-margin business, not in spite of that fact.
posted by rhymedirective at 3:28 PM on August 18, 2023 [54 favorites]
They're losing money because they have pretty much all chased after an illusory business strategy of vertical integration and it's not working. They've been losing money for years. Disney Plus has never been profitable. Paramount Plus has never been profitable. Max has never been profitable. And there is no path to profitability for any of them as long as they remain vertically integrated monstrosities.
The studios should be broken up. Production companies should be legally barred from distribution, and vice versa.
This happened (at least) twice before, and in both cases it led to a increase in the quality of movies and television shows being produced, because independent producers had a real shot at getting their movies and tv shows distributed. It's the reason that American television in the 1960s is mostly remember for dreck and American television in the 1970s is mostly remembered for high-quality cultural touchstones like The Mary Tyler Moore Show and All in the Family. The federal government legally barred the networks from owning the shows they aired.
The WGA and SAG-AFTRA are striking because the studios have turned the industry into a vertically integrated low-margin business, not in spite of that fact.
posted by rhymedirective at 3:28 PM on August 18, 2023 [54 favorites]
We don’t really know if Max, Disney+, etc are actually losing money because the studios are experts at gaming the system to their advantage. If Wall Street will let them lose money on streaming as long as those platforms are getting more subscribers then you can bet they’ve figured out how to shift a lot of costs onto those platforms to boost their margins elsewhere.
posted by interogative mood at 4:02 PM on August 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 4:02 PM on August 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
Guess, we'll just have to get by off of A24, indie films, low budget genre films, and international films.
The last few decades have produced a tsunami of films and long-form TV shows, and that has coincided with me having a lot less time to watch most of it. This strike could go on for a decade but I'd be perfectly entertained with a new show or movie every night because that's how far behind I am. For Marvel movies alone I have something like FIFTEEN movies to watch to complete them, and that doesn't even count all the TV shows.
posted by zardoz at 4:17 PM on August 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
The last few decades have produced a tsunami of films and long-form TV shows, and that has coincided with me having a lot less time to watch most of it. This strike could go on for a decade but I'd be perfectly entertained with a new show or movie every night because that's how far behind I am. For Marvel movies alone I have something like FIFTEEN movies to watch to complete them, and that doesn't even count all the TV shows.
posted by zardoz at 4:17 PM on August 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
It's being reported that A League Of Their Own, which had been renewed for a shortened second season at Amazon Prime, is now cancelled.
posted by Pallas Athena at 4:18 PM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Pallas Athena at 4:18 PM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
That's sad. We really enjoyed that show.
posted by hippybear at 4:21 PM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 4:21 PM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
> We don’t really know if Max, Disney+, etc are actually losing money
Disney (I don't know about Warner Bros, which owns Max) calls out D+ specifically in their earning reports, so we know it's losing a lot of money: $512 million last quarter.
posted by riotnrrd at 4:38 PM on August 18, 2023
Disney (I don't know about Warner Bros, which owns Max) calls out D+ specifically in their earning reports, so we know it's losing a lot of money: $512 million last quarter.
posted by riotnrrd at 4:38 PM on August 18, 2023
I'd like to remind people that streaming made possible cord cutting, that social trend that helps reduce the power of other huge terrible businesses like Comcast. (Which, in turn, owns NBC/Universal, so it's like they win regardless, and also provides internet for lots of people. That's a purchase that probably shouldn't have been allowed.) Not because the streaming services are great, because they're really not. It's because it's all a twisted mass of snakes, and if you pull at one snake, another snake turns around and bites you.
They're not even the cute kinds of snakes. ===(")~
posted by JHarris at 5:01 PM on August 18, 2023 [13 favorites]
They're not even the cute kinds of snakes. ===(")~
posted by JHarris at 5:01 PM on August 18, 2023 [13 favorites]
The other big revenue stream, similar to syndication on television, is licensing to a streaming service.
This is the thing … Netflix was making tonnes and tonnes of money on streaming for years in large part because studios were licensing their stuff for cheap because no one realized it was so valuable. So when the contracts were up content owners demanded a bigger piece of the revenue. Netflix said no and started developing their own content, and in the course of that pioneering some of the anti-labour tactics that have lead to the present strike.
Content owners still wanted some streaming money so they each individually launched their own streaming platforms in an effort to compete with Netflix, and Wall Street was happy to give them a lot of money to make a go of it. And then interest rates went up and the free money for streamers spigot turned off quite suddenly leaving all of them (except Netflix) with giant gaping streaming sinkholes.
I keep thinking about what should have happened. Each of the content silos having their own $12/month platform obviously sucks and doesn’t work. Netflix could have been less stingy and owned streaming as a distribution platform for all the content owners, but it seems like all of this has worked out fine for Netflix.
In music, there are multiple streaming platforms to choose from and they all have basically the same content. Could that have worked for movies & TV? I think that is some kind of compulsory licensing thing?
Maybe they should have kept the Apple iTunes a la carte model and just left streaming to Netflix and the Tubis of the world.
posted by chrchr at 5:16 PM on August 18, 2023 [9 favorites]
This is the thing … Netflix was making tonnes and tonnes of money on streaming for years in large part because studios were licensing their stuff for cheap because no one realized it was so valuable. So when the contracts were up content owners demanded a bigger piece of the revenue. Netflix said no and started developing their own content, and in the course of that pioneering some of the anti-labour tactics that have lead to the present strike.
Content owners still wanted some streaming money so they each individually launched their own streaming platforms in an effort to compete with Netflix, and Wall Street was happy to give them a lot of money to make a go of it. And then interest rates went up and the free money for streamers spigot turned off quite suddenly leaving all of them (except Netflix) with giant gaping streaming sinkholes.
I keep thinking about what should have happened. Each of the content silos having their own $12/month platform obviously sucks and doesn’t work. Netflix could have been less stingy and owned streaming as a distribution platform for all the content owners, but it seems like all of this has worked out fine for Netflix.
In music, there are multiple streaming platforms to choose from and they all have basically the same content. Could that have worked for movies & TV? I think that is some kind of compulsory licensing thing?
Maybe they should have kept the Apple iTunes a la carte model and just left streaming to Netflix and the Tubis of the world.
posted by chrchr at 5:16 PM on August 18, 2023 [9 favorites]
Worth noting from two days ago: this Variety article using anonymous sources to suggest writers were "privately grumbling" that "nobody asked for" writing room minimums that "would take authority away from showrunners." It caused a lot of eye-rolling among writers on social media at what they saw as obvious manipulative spin from a trade rag heavily dependent on AMPTP members for access and scoops*, with lots of writers raising their hand to say "I asked for this" loud and clear.
*also worth another reminder that Variety, Hollywood Reporter, Deadline and IndieWire are all owned by Penske Media, which also owns AMPTP member Dick Clark Productions.
posted by mediareport at 5:24 PM on August 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
*also worth another reminder that Variety, Hollywood Reporter, Deadline and IndieWire are all owned by Penske Media, which also owns AMPTP member Dick Clark Productions.
posted by mediareport at 5:24 PM on August 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
[not meant to be mean or direct that towards you in any way
It's ok, furnace.heart, I was laughing when I typed that "ouch;" you raised a good point that I'm still not sure how to deal with. Did you notice that Apple TV page linked from the official Prospect site has a little note under the "View in iTunes" box that says "Available on Prime Video, Tubi TV, iTunes, Amazon FreeVee, Plex"? Clear as mud. I'd love to know which streaming option gets the creators the most money. (Also, quick note: not all county libraries do DVDs; mine made the decision not to years ago. They don't do Kanopy either, which charges libraries $2 per free film watched.)]
posted by mediareport at 5:33 PM on August 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's ok, furnace.heart, I was laughing when I typed that "ouch;" you raised a good point that I'm still not sure how to deal with. Did you notice that Apple TV page linked from the official Prospect site has a little note under the "View in iTunes" box that says "Available on Prime Video, Tubi TV, iTunes, Amazon FreeVee, Plex"? Clear as mud. I'd love to know which streaming option gets the creators the most money. (Also, quick note: not all county libraries do DVDs; mine made the decision not to years ago. They don't do Kanopy either, which charges libraries $2 per free film watched.)]
posted by mediareport at 5:33 PM on August 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm glad the article also called out the execrable Microsoft-ABK merger ruling as well, though the issue there is that the judge (who violated judicial ethics by refusing to recuse herself, given that her son works for Microsoft) was unwilling to countenance that the words of a man who executed one of the gravest blows to American jurisprudence might not actually be worth the paper they were written on.
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:42 PM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:42 PM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Reporting in from Tumblr:
Every day the studios continue to be idiots and the strike continues is another day that Good Omens Season 3 has not been announced, and we are Not Okay.
posted by meese at 6:44 PM on August 18, 2023 [9 favorites]
Every day the studios continue to be idiots and the strike continues is another day that Good Omens Season 3 has not been announced, and we are Not Okay.
posted by meese at 6:44 PM on August 18, 2023 [9 favorites]
Disney (I don't know about Warner Bros, which owns Max) calls out D+ specifically in their earning reports, so we know it's losing a lot of money: $512 million last quarter.
Yes but according to Hollywood accounting every film they ever make has “lost” money or barely broken even. This is why their contract payouts focus mostly on gross revenues and no one expects to get paid any of the net proceeds in the contract.
The $512 million probably has a lot of extras being charged to the business so they can make other numbers look better.
posted by interogative mood at 7:48 PM on August 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
Yes but according to Hollywood accounting every film they ever make has “lost” money or barely broken even. This is why their contract payouts focus mostly on gross revenues and no one expects to get paid any of the net proceeds in the contract.
The $512 million probably has a lot of extras being charged to the business so they can make other numbers look better.
posted by interogative mood at 7:48 PM on August 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
I think the piece of this that a lot of people are missing is that the studios are not losing money because of accounting shenanigans, or because they can't currently make tv shows and movies.
They're losing money because they have pretty much all chased after an illusory business strategy of vertical integration and it's not working. They've been losing money for years. Disney Plus has never been profitable. Paramount Plus has never been profitable. Max has never been profitable. And there is no path to profitability for any of them as long as they remain vertically integrated monstrosities.
OK. Maybe. But OK.
The studios should be broken up. Production companies should be legally barred from distribution, and vice versa.
This happened (at least) twice before, and in both cases it led to a increase in the quality of movies and television shows being produced, because independent producers had a real shot at getting their movies and tv shows distributed. It's the reason that American television in the 1960s is mostly remember for dreck and American television in the 1970s is mostly remembered for high-quality cultural touchstones like The Mary Tyler Moore Show and All in the Family. The federal government legally barred the networks from owning the shows they aired.
The WGA and SAG-AFTRA are striking because the studios have turned the industry into a vertically integrated low-margin business, not in spite of that fact.
Now this is off the rails.
Breaking up the studios is an idea. A silly idea. And also an idea irrelevant to the strike.
Trying to buttress the idea by claiming it will increase quality needs better example by saying TV in the 70s was better than TV in the 60s. This is a pretty subjective call, and I think you'll have some very valid pushback if you were to seriously pursue it.
FWIW, I think TV is better now than it's ever been, catering to far more diverse tastes than ever, even with all the vertical integration/streaming currently going. Possibly because of it.
Not only that, there are far more venues for creators than there have ever been, from low end indies all the way to big budget movies and shows. The justification for killing the old studio system back in the day would be hard to apply to the business today.
The WGA and SAG-AFTRA are not striking because the studios have turned the industry into a vertically integrated low-margin business. Furthermore, it seems an article of faith that the studios and their integrated co-industries will be more profitable if they're broken up. As if it's idea is being proposed for their own good. That's sweet, but it doesn't solve the problem of residuals, AI, and just getting a contract ratified. You know, the issues the actual strike is about.
posted by 2N2222 at 8:11 PM on August 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
They could have just paid the writers..
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 8:44 PM on August 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 8:44 PM on August 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
They could pay the writers and the actors what they're asking out of exec pay and the execs wouldn't even notice they had a tiny bit less money.
posted by hippybear at 8:51 PM on August 18, 2023 [16 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 8:51 PM on August 18, 2023 [16 favorites]
Disney (I don't know about Warner Bros, which owns Max) calls out D+ specifically in their earning reports, so we know it's losing a lot of money: $512 million last quarter.
I read - here, I believe - that a large reason D+ is making such losses is because it sold the rights to air sports, totally underestimating exactly how many people worldwide (especially across Asia and Africa and the relevant immigrants) had their channel specifically to watch the cricket.
Also they could just pay the writers out of the CEO bonuses. It would be spare change to them.
posted by HypotheticalWoman at 9:42 PM on August 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
I read - here, I believe - that a large reason D+ is making such losses is because it sold the rights to air sports, totally underestimating exactly how many people worldwide (especially across Asia and Africa and the relevant immigrants) had their channel specifically to watch the cricket.
Also they could just pay the writers out of the CEO bonuses. It would be spare change to them.
posted by HypotheticalWoman at 9:42 PM on August 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
FWIW, I think TV is better now than it's ever been, catering to far more diverse tastes than ever, even with all the vertical integration/streaming currently going. Possibly because of it.
Nope. A large part of the reason why TV has improved is because the UK instituted anti-vertical integration laws that served to allow independent production houses to have a space to exist, which in turn caused the UK television environment to explode in creativity as production houses could now develop shows without being forced to surrender them. This in turn has had knock on effects as those production houses can license their shows for other markets, like the US.
Furthermore, it seems an article of faith that the studios and their integrated co-industries will be more profitable if they're broken up. As if it's idea is being proposed for their own good.
It's not an article of faith - we've seen it done. It turns out that when independent production houses are allowed to survive without being forced to surrender their work to the studios as part of getting shows made, the result is a healthier and more diverse industry.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:59 PM on August 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
Nope. A large part of the reason why TV has improved is because the UK instituted anti-vertical integration laws that served to allow independent production houses to have a space to exist, which in turn caused the UK television environment to explode in creativity as production houses could now develop shows without being forced to surrender them. This in turn has had knock on effects as those production houses can license their shows for other markets, like the US.
Furthermore, it seems an article of faith that the studios and their integrated co-industries will be more profitable if they're broken up. As if it's idea is being proposed for their own good.
It's not an article of faith - we've seen it done. It turns out that when independent production houses are allowed to survive without being forced to surrender their work to the studios as part of getting shows made, the result is a healthier and more diverse industry.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:59 PM on August 18, 2023 [12 favorites]
I would love a world where the writers and actors get paid, but in the FPP I couldn’t make it past the line where the author was suggesting shutting down streaming and moving content back onto the old TV channels.
That’s like telling the newspaper industry that they could have fixed the money loss by shutting down their websites and moving the news back into print.
I don’t know anyone who has dropped cable/network TV in favor of streaming who would be willing to go back. If they’re not able to make money on the streamers, it’s because they got greedy and fragmented it to the point where no one wants to pay for yet another $10/month platform just for one show. The paradigm seems to be hanging the platform on one specific flagship property without anything else to keep viewers once they blew through that content, then the execs who pushed for the platform walk off with ridiculous bonuses and now insist that they can’t afford to pay the writers for season 2.
posted by caution live frogs at 11:45 PM on August 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
That’s like telling the newspaper industry that they could have fixed the money loss by shutting down their websites and moving the news back into print.
I don’t know anyone who has dropped cable/network TV in favor of streaming who would be willing to go back. If they’re not able to make money on the streamers, it’s because they got greedy and fragmented it to the point where no one wants to pay for yet another $10/month platform just for one show. The paradigm seems to be hanging the platform on one specific flagship property without anything else to keep viewers once they blew through that content, then the execs who pushed for the platform walk off with ridiculous bonuses and now insist that they can’t afford to pay the writers for season 2.
posted by caution live frogs at 11:45 PM on August 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
I will be pleasantly surprised if this strike ends with a settlement, and everyone going back to work as normal, Hollywood progressivism is a powerful social weapon, now effectively quiet. With the creatives out of the picture, people are slowly forgetting their influence and relevance. When the Sounds of Freedom inspired pogroms ramp up, the pushback against it will be that much weaker in a social media world now dominated by cheering bullies.
This sounds like a tin foil hat hot-take, but so did now-accurate predictions made seven years ago.
posted by CynicalKnight at 4:03 AM on August 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
This sounds like a tin foil hat hot-take, but so did now-accurate predictions made seven years ago.
posted by CynicalKnight at 4:03 AM on August 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
we'll just have to get by off of A24, indie films, low budget genre films, and international films
We could start by stretching Birdemic: Shock and Terror into a 10 part TV series by adding more car scenes.
posted by flabdablet at 5:25 AM on August 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
We could start by stretching Birdemic: Shock and Terror into a 10 part TV series by adding more car scenes.
posted by flabdablet at 5:25 AM on August 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
The WGA and SAG-AFTRA are not striking because the studios have turned the industry into a vertically integrated low-margin business
This is like saying that I don’t eat because I’m hungry, I eat because I want food
posted by rhymedirective at 5:41 AM on August 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
This is like saying that I don’t eat because I’m hungry, I eat because I want food
posted by rhymedirective at 5:41 AM on August 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
I said this on Mastodon and I'll say it here:
Entertainment CEO'S cheerfully proclaiming that they are saving money during the SAG-AFTRA / WGA strike ...
It's like proclaiming how much money you are saving on food bills, whilst slowly eating your Own Feet.
posted by Faintdreams at 7:10 AM on August 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
Entertainment CEO'S cheerfully proclaiming that they are saving money during the SAG-AFTRA / WGA strike ...
It's like proclaiming how much money you are saving on food bills, whilst slowly eating your Own Feet.
posted by Faintdreams at 7:10 AM on August 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
Zaslav would cheerfully through the entire Warner Bros archive into a woodchipper if he thought he’d get a big enough tax break out of it, and basically hates anything that isn’t the dullest and shittiets reality TV. Of course, he was taking the company in that direction before the strike.
posted by Artw at 12:15 PM on August 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 12:15 PM on August 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Zaslav is the Warner head forecasted by Animaniacs.
posted by hippybear at 12:30 PM on August 19, 2023 [13 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 12:30 PM on August 19, 2023 [13 favorites]
I'd like to remind people that streaming made possible cord cutting
Other way around. Streaming is a response to cord cutting as cable rates started to become unsustainable. The trends were starting to show when all the players went into streaming big time. (It also helped they broadband distribution to the home finally made it possible).
posted by jmauro at 4:05 AM on August 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
Other way around. Streaming is a response to cord cutting as cable rates started to become unsustainable. The trends were starting to show when all the players went into streaming big time. (It also helped they broadband distribution to the home finally made it possible).
posted by jmauro at 4:05 AM on August 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
Entertainment CEO'S cheerfully proclaiming that they are saving money during the SAG-AFTRA / WGA strike ...ohhhh wow that's actually a thing.
It's like proclaiming how much money you are saving on food bills, whilst slowly eating your Own Feet.
I was getting ready to make a comparison to a farmer who "realized" their profit from their harvest will go a lot longer if they don't have to buy seed or pay labor to help sow new crops the following spring. But actually I don't have to because... that's exactly what this is? There are really a true variety of skill levels in hollywood accounting.
posted by midmarch snowman at 5:22 AM on August 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
Unmasking the AMPTP: Hollywood Labor’s Opaque Nemesis
posted by Artw at 2:43 PM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 2:43 PM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
Talks confirmed to resume Wednesday.
(Assuming it isn’t AMPTP pulling a bunch of bullshit again as it has been on all previous occasions)
posted by Artw at 12:51 PM on September 18, 2023
(Assuming it isn’t AMPTP pulling a bunch of bullshit again as it has been on all previous occasions)
posted by Artw at 12:51 PM on September 18, 2023
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Another reminder that the movers and shakers who decide everything are SUPER DUMB. "...but when I found out that a strike means business stops and we can't make money, you could have knocked me over with a feather!"
posted by The Tensor at 1:44 PM on August 18, 2023 [40 favorites]