"They bent, then broke, and gave us what we deserve"
September 26, 2023 10:31 PM Subscribe
WGA writers union reaches agreement to end strike vs Hollywood studios "The Negotiating Committee, the WGAW Board and WGAE Council all voted unanimously to recommend the agreement. It will now go to both guilds’ memberships for a ratification vote." WGA's updated chart comparing what the studios offered on May 1st to what the writers got after their 148-day strike [PDF], including writers room protections, streaming residuals based on actual viewership numbers, and more.
Adam Conover on Twitter:
These are essential protections that the companies told us, to our faces, that they would NEVER give us. But because of our solidarity, because they literally cannot make a dollar without us, they bent, then broke, and gave us what we deserve. WE WON.
Adam Conover on Twitter:
These are essential protections that the companies told us, to our faces, that they would NEVER give us. But because of our solidarity, because they literally cannot make a dollar without us, they bent, then broke, and gave us what we deserve. WE WON.
fwiw...
Now the studios have to fix the streaming business - "The writers convinced the studios to increase their salaries, share more viewership data, pay them bonuses for high-performing shows and guarantee a minimum number of staffers on shows. That is just a small sampling of the terms in this deal, many of which were considered nonstarters back in May."
Now the studios have to fix the streaming business - "The writers convinced the studios to increase their salaries, share more viewership data, pay them bonuses for high-performing shows and guarantee a minimum number of staffers on shows. That is just a small sampling of the terms in this deal, many of which were considered nonstarters back in May."
When the strike began, many corporations — already in cost-cutting mode — were happy to save money for a couple months. The studios assumed they could get the actors and directors to agree to a deal first. After all, that’s what they did in 2007 during the last writer’s strike.posted by kliuless at 1:32 AM on September 27, 2023 [14 favorites]
But it soon became clear that the playbook from years past wasn’t going to fly this time around. Social media had changed the game, enabling writers to marshal support and sustain their collectivist energy. Hundreds of people showed up to protest at corporate offices in New York and Los Angeles for weeks on end.
Social media also allowed the writers to silence internal skeptics, as no writer wanted to be labeled a stooge or scab online. The last strike ended not because of some grand gesture by the studios but because the writers fractured. This version of the WGA has far stronger roots in organized labor...
Streaming created more jobs than ever before, and somehow left people feeling less secure. Seasons were shorter. Teams of writers shrank. More and more of the pay went to the people at the top. Sources of financial stability, such as residual payments when an episode is aired anew, appeared to be shrinking. Participation in the profits of a show, once restricted to a lucky few before, largely disappeared...
There are studio executives who worry this deal will be a Pyrrhic victory for writers; they won the battle but lost the war. The number of shows being made is already going down as companies cut costs. This new deal will increase the cost of making shows, and further depress output.
Good luck convincing writers they’ve lost. They know the industry is changing, but they set out with a long list of priorities and satisfied many of them.
This deal will not fix what currently ails Hollywood. It won’t stop people from cutting the cord or make streaming services more profitable. It won’t revive moviegoing or improve the advertising market. The media business remains challenged. But figuring out the future will fall to the CEOs. That’s what they get paid to do.
Nice. The high visibility of this might inspire more workers to join unions and demand better conditions.
posted by signal at 4:17 AM on September 27, 2023 [17 favorites]
posted by signal at 4:17 AM on September 27, 2023 [17 favorites]
And here I had convinced myself that the strike was machinated to keep the highly influential talk shows off the air so Trump's reascendence would be unopposed.
I am happy to be wrong and admit I was paranoid. Not everything is a conspiracy.
posted by CynicalKnight at 5:22 AM on September 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
I am happy to be wrong and admit I was paranoid. Not everything is a conspiracy.
posted by CynicalKnight at 5:22 AM on September 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Variety has a good summary of the gains made by the striking writers:
...a deal that is far richer and more comprehensive than most industry observers would have predicted last spring when the fitful negotiations began.
posted by mediareport at 5:30 AM on September 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
...a deal that is far richer and more comprehensive than most industry observers would have predicted last spring when the fitful negotiations began.
posted by mediareport at 5:30 AM on September 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
I don’t know, but I’m afraid there are enough carve-outs and loopholes that the only shows that will get made are ones that don’t have to abide by favorable terms for writers.
posted by Jon_Evil at 5:45 AM on September 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Jon_Evil at 5:45 AM on September 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
Re support for SAG-AFTRA: the strike accounts I follow on Tumblr immediately said "writers, please go picket with SAG" as soon as the tentative deal came out.
Those accounts have been accurate, prompt, and sharp in all their reporting. I mean, the WGA ones are presumably written by actual professional writers, so I'm not surprised, but it makes me happy as a union member myself to see other unions doing good work.
posted by humbug at 5:49 AM on September 27, 2023 [8 favorites]
Those accounts have been accurate, prompt, and sharp in all their reporting. I mean, the WGA ones are presumably written by actual professional writers, so I'm not surprised, but it makes me happy as a union member myself to see other unions doing good work.
posted by humbug at 5:49 AM on September 27, 2023 [8 favorites]
They couldn’t beat the WGA, so the streaming services are teaming up - The new Streaming Innovation Alliance seeks to protect streamers from "regulatory threats"
posted by Artw at 6:08 AM on September 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 6:08 AM on September 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Gentle reminder that immediately going to a place of doom about how this historic deal is ultimately going to be bad for writers, actually, is doing the studios' work for them. David Slack says, "They push the lie that we used our power and lost because they hope to stop us from using our power to win." (Link is to a Threadreader unroll.)
posted by merriment at 6:31 AM on September 27, 2023 [52 favorites]
posted by merriment at 6:31 AM on September 27, 2023 [52 favorites]
strikes work! unions give you power! also I'm glad the TV will start coming back :)
posted by dis_integration at 6:37 AM on September 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 6:37 AM on September 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
also btw, how the original writers envisioned things...
What the Founding Fathers Believed: Stock Ownership for All [archive] (and some other stuff)
-The Citizen's Share
posted by kliuless at 6:59 AM on September 27, 2023 [8 favorites]
What the Founding Fathers Believed: Stock Ownership for All [archive] (and some other stuff)
Reading through the original arguments for a United States of America suggests that this level of inequality threatens not only our economy -- who will buy what the wealthy produce? -- but the health of our democracy as well. One does not have to be a modern radical to worry. Back in the 1770s, the Founding Fathers worried deeply about the dangers to the new democracy of concentration of wealth.-The Alternative American Dream: Inclusive Capitalism
James Madison warned that inequality in property ownership would subvert liberty, either through opposition to wealth (a war of labor against capital) or "by an oligarchy founded on corruption" through which the wealthy dominate political decision-making (a war of capital against labor). John Adams favored distribution of public lands to the landless to create broad-based ownership of property, then the critical component of business capital in the largely agricultural U.S. Current levels and trends in inequality would almost certainly have terrified the founders, who believed that broad-based property ownership was essential to the sustenance of a republic...
-The Citizen's Share
posted by kliuless at 6:59 AM on September 27, 2023 [8 favorites]
Not everything is a conspiracy.
Other than mere shared interest, almost nothing is ever a conspiracy--selfish people who would be motivated to create/join conspiracies (what's in it for me?) cannot successfully sustain conspiracies because they are selfish.
I’m afraid there are enough carve-outs and loopholes that the only shows that will get made are ones that don’t have to abide by favorable terms for writers.
Why? This strikes me as baseless paranoia, if you read through the summaries of what's actually been conceded by the studios. I don't know what will happen with the industry as a whole (because I'm not sure the caliber of person in CEO-type roles in these corporations understands culture well enough to adapt in ways that ensure long-term solvency) but labor solidarity is clearly working effectively for labor in this situation.
posted by LooseFilter at 7:07 AM on September 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
Other than mere shared interest, almost nothing is ever a conspiracy--selfish people who would be motivated to create/join conspiracies (what's in it for me?) cannot successfully sustain conspiracies because they are selfish.
I’m afraid there are enough carve-outs and loopholes that the only shows that will get made are ones that don’t have to abide by favorable terms for writers.
Why? This strikes me as baseless paranoia, if you read through the summaries of what's actually been conceded by the studios. I don't know what will happen with the industry as a whole (because I'm not sure the caliber of person in CEO-type roles in these corporations understands culture well enough to adapt in ways that ensure long-term solvency) but labor solidarity is clearly working effectively for labor in this situation.
posted by LooseFilter at 7:07 AM on September 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
The writers that it affects are pleased with the deal so it's not my job to armchair quarterback.
posted by tofu_crouton at 7:14 AM on September 27, 2023 [17 favorites]
posted by tofu_crouton at 7:14 AM on September 27, 2023 [17 favorites]
While talking about the strikes, let's not forget that SAG-AFTRA had a massive positive vote for a strike against the video game companies.
The WGA strike win is going to make it harder for the companies to fight against the striking actors, as long as they keep solidarity. And if that happens, we may finally see the Communications Guild of America get their footholds in and start unionizing the programmers and tech support teams.
posted by mephron at 7:17 AM on September 27, 2023 [12 favorites]
The WGA strike win is going to make it harder for the companies to fight against the striking actors, as long as they keep solidarity. And if that happens, we may finally see the Communications Guild of America get their footholds in and start unionizing the programmers and tech support teams.
posted by mephron at 7:17 AM on September 27, 2023 [12 favorites]
I think we are for sure going to see an emphasis on advertising driven, which is treated differently. Seems like things were going that way anyway though.
posted by Artw at 7:54 AM on September 27, 2023
posted by Artw at 7:54 AM on September 27, 2023
I think we are for sure going to see an emphasis on advertising driven, which is treated differently. Seems like things were going that way anyway though.
Advertising driven what?
posted by rhymedirective at 8:00 AM on September 27, 2023
Advertising driven what?
posted by rhymedirective at 8:00 AM on September 27, 2023
I'd like to imagine that Matt Walsh refusing to go on Dancing With The Stars (not the asshole Matt Walsh, the other one who was on Veep and Upright Citizens Brigade) that finally broke the camel's back.
"A UCB original refuses to tango with Koko Iwasaki??? We're ruined!"
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 8:03 AM on September 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
"A UCB original refuses to tango with Koko Iwasaki??? We're ruined!"
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 8:03 AM on September 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
Advertising driven what?
Streaming. Expect to see at least some of the services getting rid of no ads options because corporations who want to reach us to advertise their shit can easily outspend us as individuals.
It's the same enshittification as cable TV.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 8:06 AM on September 27, 2023 [5 favorites]
Streaming. Expect to see at least some of the services getting rid of no ads options because corporations who want to reach us to advertise their shit can easily outspend us as individuals.
It's the same enshittification as cable TV.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 8:06 AM on September 27, 2023 [5 favorites]
Ad supported streaming services. Prime is switching to that model, though I’m not sure it counts as an “ad supported free streaming service”, the language used in the contract comparison, as it’s tied to Amazon membership.
posted by Artw at 8:06 AM on September 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 8:06 AM on September 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Ad supported streaming services. Prime is switching to that model, though I’m not sure it counts as an “ad supported free streaming service”, the language used in the contract comparison, as it’s tied to Amazon membership.
They already did it to Twitch. There's just too much money in advertising to base any sort of premium product on removing it.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 8:08 AM on September 27, 2023
They already did it to Twitch. There's just too much money in advertising to base any sort of premium product on removing it.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 8:08 AM on September 27, 2023
Walsh is back on DWTS (I watched a little last night.)
posted by 41swans at 8:21 AM on September 27, 2023
posted by 41swans at 8:21 AM on September 27, 2023
SAG-AFTRA had a massive positive vote for a strike against the video game companies.
Not knowing anything about the internal workings here, I wonder how much leverage the union has against video game companies right now. I can't think of anything capital-gee Gamers hate more than something getting in the way of their vidya, doubly so if it's a labor union. Hollywood can't afford to lose access to union talent; is the same really true of game developers? How much do consumers ultimately care about the quality of the voice acting and mocap in games?
I want a win for the union here -- particularly in the realm of AI, which is going to enter into all of their other contract negotiations the next time they're up -- but it seems a lot less of a sure-thing than the currently-struck theatrical contract.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:23 AM on September 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Not knowing anything about the internal workings here, I wonder how much leverage the union has against video game companies right now. I can't think of anything capital-gee Gamers hate more than something getting in the way of their vidya, doubly so if it's a labor union. Hollywood can't afford to lose access to union talent; is the same really true of game developers? How much do consumers ultimately care about the quality of the voice acting and mocap in games?
I want a win for the union here -- particularly in the realm of AI, which is going to enter into all of their other contract negotiations the next time they're up -- but it seems a lot less of a sure-thing than the currently-struck theatrical contract.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:23 AM on September 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
And here I had convinced myself that the strike was machinated to keep the highly influential talk shows off the air so Trump's reascendence would be unopposed.
One of the things that I found so incredible and inspiring about this strike is that, mostly because it was a writer's strike, you had so many people involved with it writing and speaking about their experiences. Writers laid bare all of their frustrations, their treatment, their fears for the future. Across all social media spectrums and traditional outlets there was so much content. It was awe inspiring for me and I'm so happy that they've reached an agreement that promises great things and hopefully works entirely in their favour.
I'd question why you felt that this strike was machinated, why you thought it was inauthentic. If there was some media or news site that contributed to that. There's going to be a lot more invested into anti-union efforts and suppression. The idea that a strike is being manufactured is pretty pernicious. Keep your eyes out for it.
posted by Neronomius at 8:39 AM on September 27, 2023 [12 favorites]
One of the things that I found so incredible and inspiring about this strike is that, mostly because it was a writer's strike, you had so many people involved with it writing and speaking about their experiences. Writers laid bare all of their frustrations, their treatment, their fears for the future. Across all social media spectrums and traditional outlets there was so much content. It was awe inspiring for me and I'm so happy that they've reached an agreement that promises great things and hopefully works entirely in their favour.
I'd question why you felt that this strike was machinated, why you thought it was inauthentic. If there was some media or news site that contributed to that. There's going to be a lot more invested into anti-union efforts and suppression. The idea that a strike is being manufactured is pretty pernicious. Keep your eyes out for it.
posted by Neronomius at 8:39 AM on September 27, 2023 [12 favorites]
Walsh is back on DWTS (I watched a little last night.)
Yes, but unfortunately...
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 8:44 AM on September 27, 2023
Yes, but unfortunately...
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 8:44 AM on September 27, 2023
Yes, but unfortunately...
As someone who's never watched a frame of Dancing With the Stars, but would like to join in the fun of a little conspiracy theorizing, I'm just going to assume the producers intervened to have Walsh bumped off of the show as petty revenge for his outspoken stance in support of the WGA strike.
Also, did you know he had the titular line in Star Wars?
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:04 AM on September 27, 2023
As someone who's never watched a frame of Dancing With the Stars, but would like to join in the fun of a little conspiracy theorizing, I'm just going to assume the producers intervened to have Walsh bumped off of the show as petty revenge for his outspoken stance in support of the WGA strike.
Also, did you know he had the titular line in Star Wars?
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:04 AM on September 27, 2023
"Hollywood can't afford to lose access to union talent; is the same really true of game developers? How much do consumers ultimately care about the quality of the voice acting and mocap in games?"
A lot? At least in the sense that when a game has bad acting it will definitely get panned for the bad acting, and negative reviews do affect game sales.
However, that may not actually be the main point. If game studios want to continue getting Hollywood actors like Keanu to do their games, the SAGAFTRA strike will matter, because union members will have lots of incentive to avoid non-union jobs (especially in an industry that has non-union jobs because it broke a SAGAFTRA strike).
posted by oddman at 9:06 AM on September 27, 2023
A lot? At least in the sense that when a game has bad acting it will definitely get panned for the bad acting, and negative reviews do affect game sales.
However, that may not actually be the main point. If game studios want to continue getting Hollywood actors like Keanu to do their games, the SAGAFTRA strike will matter, because union members will have lots of incentive to avoid non-union jobs (especially in an industry that has non-union jobs because it broke a SAGAFTRA strike).
posted by oddman at 9:06 AM on September 27, 2023
How exactly are "viewership numbers" audited and verified between the streamers and the WGA? A lot of these gains seem to hinge on self-reported numbers if that's really the case. And we all know how that goes.
I'm sure the Guild has Very Smart People that have already thought of this, but I'm curious.
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:09 AM on September 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm sure the Guild has Very Smart People that have already thought of this, but I'm curious.
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:09 AM on September 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
Not knowing anything about the internal workings here, I wonder how much leverage the union has against video game companies right now. I can't think of anything capital-gee Gamers hate more than something getting in the way of their vidya, doubly so if it's a labor union. Hollywood can't afford to lose access to union talent; is the same really true of game developers? How much do consumers ultimately care about the quality of the voice acting and mocap in games?
There's a minimum bar to cross, especially on the voice acting, which is probably the most noticeable part for the consumer, unless the likeness of the actor is also licensed. Plus on some big IPs changing the voice actor would be problematic. The leverage I assume is the same they had with studios, unless you respect the contract no union member will work for you, and also I believe respecting the contract means other actors must also be members so it also incentivize actors to be part of the union.
It's an international industry but I'm unsure of the international ramifications, a lot of the English voice acting occurs in the US though.
I want a win for the union here -- particularly in the realm of AI, which is going to enter into all of their other contract negotiations the next time they're up -- but it seems a lot less of a sure-thing than the currently-struck theatrical contract.
Weirdly enough, AI generated voices in videogames actually do make some sense, it would allow for dialog generation or insertion of context specific words in recorded dialog. It's absolutely worth some compensation if your voice will be baked as parameters for model to generate audio, but that should be no that dissimilar to licensing likeness.
I guess they're afraid that specific parts of voice recording where an actor will record barks/one-liners for several days in a row are at an end, and they'll be forced into licensing the voice rights if they want to have recording contracts.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 9:37 AM on September 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
There's a minimum bar to cross, especially on the voice acting, which is probably the most noticeable part for the consumer, unless the likeness of the actor is also licensed. Plus on some big IPs changing the voice actor would be problematic. The leverage I assume is the same they had with studios, unless you respect the contract no union member will work for you, and also I believe respecting the contract means other actors must also be members so it also incentivize actors to be part of the union.
It's an international industry but I'm unsure of the international ramifications, a lot of the English voice acting occurs in the US though.
I want a win for the union here -- particularly in the realm of AI, which is going to enter into all of their other contract negotiations the next time they're up -- but it seems a lot less of a sure-thing than the currently-struck theatrical contract.
Weirdly enough, AI generated voices in videogames actually do make some sense, it would allow for dialog generation or insertion of context specific words in recorded dialog. It's absolutely worth some compensation if your voice will be baked as parameters for model to generate audio, but that should be no that dissimilar to licensing likeness.
I guess they're afraid that specific parts of voice recording where an actor will record barks/one-liners for several days in a row are at an end, and they'll be forced into licensing the voice rights if they want to have recording contracts.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 9:37 AM on September 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Ad supported streaming services. Prime is switching to that model, though I’m not sure it counts as an “ad supported free streaming service”, the language used in the contract comparison, as it’s tied to Amazon membership.
Thanks. What do you mean by "treated differently"?
posted by rhymedirective at 9:41 AM on September 27, 2023
Thanks. What do you mean by "treated differently"?
posted by rhymedirective at 9:41 AM on September 27, 2023
There's a ton of good stuff in the deal, beyond what I probably would have expected. If you're worried about carve-outs, the one for solo writers doesn't seem so bad at all (and if it does end up putting some more solo-written shows into production, I don't think that's a net-negative for culture).
The one quibble I'd have is that the new streaming residual/bonus is dependent on a show being viewed by 20%+ of the service's U.S. subscribers in its first 90 days. Maybe the actual contract language will be more well-defined than what's reportedly in the tentative agreement, but this probably should have been calculated at 20%+ of active viewing subscribers, lest Amazon, especially, get away with murder for counting all its Prime subscribers as potential Prime Video viewers.
But overall this looks like such a win, for the guild and for union power in general.
posted by nobody at 9:46 AM on September 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
The one quibble I'd have is that the new streaming residual/bonus is dependent on a show being viewed by 20%+ of the service's U.S. subscribers in its first 90 days. Maybe the actual contract language will be more well-defined than what's reportedly in the tentative agreement, but this probably should have been calculated at 20%+ of active viewing subscribers, lest Amazon, especially, get away with murder for counting all its Prime subscribers as potential Prime Video viewers.
But overall this looks like such a win, for the guild and for union power in general.
posted by nobody at 9:46 AM on September 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
"Hollywood can't afford to lose access to union talent; is the same really true of game developers? How much do consumers ultimately care about the quality of the voice acting and mocap in games?"
The quality of Larian's voice acting and mocap is the thing that brought Baldur's Gate 3 into the spotlight for people that don't usually play CRPG/Tactics games. It turned a niche genre classic into a mainstream blockbuster. It is very important.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 9:48 AM on September 27, 2023
The quality of Larian's voice acting and mocap is the thing that brought Baldur's Gate 3 into the spotlight for people that don't usually play CRPG/Tactics games. It turned a niche genre classic into a mainstream blockbuster. It is very important.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 9:48 AM on September 27, 2023
However, that may not actually be the main point. If game studios want to continue getting Hollywood actors like Keanu to do their games, the SAGAFTRA strike will matter, because union members will have lots of incentive to avoid non-union jobs (especially in an industry that has non-union jobs because it broke a SAGAFTRA strike).
This is pretty key. You have two types of voice talent in video games: your imports and your domestics. Domestics are your Nolan Norths and Troy Bakers that do voice overs for a living. They have a strong incentive to protect their labor rights so that they can continue to get gigs doing this for income. Imports are the aforementioned Keanu Reaves, Hollywood actors who lend name recognition to a video game project. Most are very supportive of SAG-AFTRA and would not work on games that were non-union. Either way, publisher attacks on voice actor union will not allow games to get best or even good voice talent, and the companies know this.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 10:09 AM on September 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
This is pretty key. You have two types of voice talent in video games: your imports and your domestics. Domestics are your Nolan Norths and Troy Bakers that do voice overs for a living. They have a strong incentive to protect their labor rights so that they can continue to get gigs doing this for income. Imports are the aforementioned Keanu Reaves, Hollywood actors who lend name recognition to a video game project. Most are very supportive of SAG-AFTRA and would not work on games that were non-union. Either way, publisher attacks on voice actor union will not allow games to get best or even good voice talent, and the companies know this.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 10:09 AM on September 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
FWIW, I was on my bike at a stoplight outside a Disney gate yesterday and saw a WGA Supports SAG-AFTRA picketer. He was discussing with a SAG-AFTRA picketer what he was and wasn't allowed to put on his sign but the light turned green before I could hear the outcome.
Anyway, as far as I can see the writers are not abandoning the actors.
posted by queensissy at 11:05 AM on September 27, 2023 [8 favorites]
Anyway, as far as I can see the writers are not abandoning the actors.
posted by queensissy at 11:05 AM on September 27, 2023 [8 favorites]
Expect to see at least some of the services getting rid of no ads options
They won't get rid of them, since lots of folks will pay to avoid ad breaks. They'll just keep raising the price of no-ads options.
My other worry* is that some streamers will start requiring full-year memberships with no monthly option, to reduce churn from folks like me, who won't pay for more than 2 streamers in a given month and so switch between them frequently.
*"worry" as in "pain in the ass that will make me start torrenting again"
posted by mediareport at 11:46 AM on September 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
They won't get rid of them, since lots of folks will pay to avoid ad breaks. They'll just keep raising the price of no-ads options.
My other worry* is that some streamers will start requiring full-year memberships with no monthly option, to reduce churn from folks like me, who won't pay for more than 2 streamers in a given month and so switch between them frequently.
*"worry" as in "pain in the ass that will make me start torrenting again"
posted by mediareport at 11:46 AM on September 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
The "No Ads" option for twitch is Twitch Turbo.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 11:51 AM on September 27, 2023
posted by I-Write-Essays at 11:51 AM on September 27, 2023
I'm not in the industry...but ooohoo boy, I think getting the studios to release their streaming numbers to the Guild is a HUGE win.
posted by pantarei70 at 12:10 PM on September 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by pantarei70 at 12:10 PM on September 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
They didn’t manage to get a complete ban on the use of AI but they set some very solid limits.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:04 PM on September 27, 2023
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:04 PM on September 27, 2023
They won't get rid of them, since lots of folks will pay to avoid ad breaks. They'll just keep raising the price of no-ads options.
You'd be surprised.
Netflix for instance when they cut their basic without ads product:
Even premium subscribers will struggle to get away from advertising because whatever you're paying, corporations will pay at least another $10/mo on the backend to gain access to advertise to you. When Netflix can rely on other product differentiation, (i.e. multi-screen, 4K, downloads, put the college kids on the plan) expect enshittification of every other product tier with ads.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 1:23 PM on September 27, 2023 [5 favorites]
You'd be surprised.
Netflix for instance when they cut their basic without ads product:
During last quarter’s earnings call, Netflix Chief Financial Officer Spencer Neumann said the “economics” of its ad-supported plan were higher than the basic plan. “It’s actually even higher than our standard plan,” he said during the call, adding that advertising was incremental to both its revenue and profit.“It’s actually even higher than our standard plan,” is a hell of a statement to make.
Even premium subscribers will struggle to get away from advertising because whatever you're paying, corporations will pay at least another $10/mo on the backend to gain access to advertise to you. When Netflix can rely on other product differentiation, (i.e. multi-screen, 4K, downloads, put the college kids on the plan) expect enshittification of every other product tier with ads.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 1:23 PM on September 27, 2023 [5 favorites]
I guess it's time to get refamiliarized with the latest options for piracy.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 1:28 PM on September 27, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by I-Write-Essays at 1:28 PM on September 27, 2023 [5 favorites]
I guess it's time to get refamiliarized with the latest options for piracy.
Amen. Going back to seeing ads in my tv shows would be like going back to the office after working from home. NO THANK YOU, I'd rather quit.
posted by MiraK at 2:07 PM on September 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
Amen. Going back to seeing ads in my tv shows would be like going back to the office after working from home. NO THANK YOU, I'd rather quit.
posted by MiraK at 2:07 PM on September 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
Dan Murrell : The WGA Strike Is Over: What Did They Get?
posted by Pendragon at 2:14 PM on September 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Pendragon at 2:14 PM on September 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Your Childhood Pet Rock: "When Netflix can rely on other product differentiation, (i.e. multi-screen, 4K, downloads, put the college kids on the plan) expect enshittification of every other product tier with ads."
Expect me to jump back to The Pirate Bay as my main streaming solution.
posted by signal at 2:52 PM on September 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
Expect me to jump back to The Pirate Bay as my main streaming solution.
posted by signal at 2:52 PM on September 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
PROPER
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 2:53 PM on September 27, 2023
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 2:53 PM on September 27, 2023
y'all know about f m o v i e s z DOT t o and f m o v i e s DOT h n , right? And you all have excellent adblockers such as ublockOrigin (the browser addon), right? Just checking.
posted by MiraK at 5:19 PM on September 27, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by MiraK at 5:19 PM on September 27, 2023 [5 favorites]
Does anyone else see the disjuncture between celebrating the successful writers' strike and many people saying they will gleefully pirate if they can't avoid ads?
posted by mollweide at 5:33 PM on September 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by mollweide at 5:33 PM on September 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
> Does anyone else see the disjuncture between celebrating the successful writers' strike and many people saying they will gleefully pirate if they can't avoid ads?
I know this is a common hangup for people to bring out, but it is not inconsistent in the slightest. Our economy is a twisted system which forces collaboration with our oppressors. Suggesting that we should support a corporation to support its employees is a hostage situation. That's not how this system works, unless the corporation we're talking about is a co-op. Taking economic hostages only makes the need to destroy that company greater. Piracy is in fact the ultimate expression of capitalism, and these media companies are the strongest pirates out there.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 5:47 PM on September 27, 2023 [11 favorites]
I know this is a common hangup for people to bring out, but it is not inconsistent in the slightest. Our economy is a twisted system which forces collaboration with our oppressors. Suggesting that we should support a corporation to support its employees is a hostage situation. That's not how this system works, unless the corporation we're talking about is a co-op. Taking economic hostages only makes the need to destroy that company greater. Piracy is in fact the ultimate expression of capitalism, and these media companies are the strongest pirates out there.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 5:47 PM on September 27, 2023 [11 favorites]
y'all know about...
PSA: Unsure about the former, but the latter of those two (along with its other identical clones, scattered around the internet) shows processor spikes up to 20% in Firefox's Process Manager, even on its mostly empty static landing page. My assumption is that it's a cryptominer, which probably isn't causing all that much harm -- you'd be using processor to decode whatever video you're watching anyway -- but if nothing else you might not want to leave any of its pages open in background tabs.
Does ublockOrigin successfully block that? (Ghostery, which I'm running, apparently doesn't in this instance.)
posted by nobody at 6:01 PM on September 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
PSA: Unsure about the former, but the latter of those two (along with its other identical clones, scattered around the internet) shows processor spikes up to 20% in Firefox's Process Manager, even on its mostly empty static landing page. My assumption is that it's a cryptominer, which probably isn't causing all that much harm -- you'd be using processor to decode whatever video you're watching anyway -- but if nothing else you might not want to leave any of its pages open in background tabs.
Does ublockOrigin successfully block that? (Ghostery, which I'm running, apparently doesn't in this instance.)
posted by nobody at 6:01 PM on September 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
Consider this: the alternative to piracy is boycott, and suggestion that piracy hurts workers is the same as saying that refusing to buy a company's products hurts workers. As far as I'm concerned, market value is the balance of supply and demand for a good, and the supply of a digital good is infinite once produced; its market value is predicated entirely on artificial scarcity. Its true market value is 0. Refusing to buy a good is exactly the same as pirating it. We should not be paying for digital goods, we should be paying for labor. That is why platforms like Patreon are so important for creating a sustainable ecosystem for supporting artists.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 6:32 PM on September 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by I-Write-Essays at 6:32 PM on September 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
ublockOrigin presumably does block that because I haven't seen any spikes on my FireFox.
And re: the ethics of piracy, I make every effort to pay for the TV/movies I watch. The only time I resort to piracy is when something is either not available in an ad-free format, or available only at an extortionate rate/conditions (e.g. Netflix, which threatened me with insane extra charges when my kids wanted to use our family account from their dad's house every other week, even though I was paying for four screens - FUCK NETFLIX, I'll never be sorry I pirate all their shit).
posted by MiraK at 6:42 PM on September 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
And re: the ethics of piracy, I make every effort to pay for the TV/movies I watch. The only time I resort to piracy is when something is either not available in an ad-free format, or available only at an extortionate rate/conditions (e.g. Netflix, which threatened me with insane extra charges when my kids wanted to use our family account from their dad's house every other week, even though I was paying for four screens - FUCK NETFLIX, I'll never be sorry I pirate all their shit).
posted by MiraK at 6:42 PM on September 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
In these days of shit getting Zaslaved it’s best for options to be open, even if paying is my preference.
posted by Artw at 7:01 PM on September 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:01 PM on September 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
ublockOrigin presumably does block that because I haven't seen any spikes on my FireFox.
At the risk of continuing a derail (processor usage) to a derail (piracy ethics), this finally got me to install uBlock after sticking with Ghostery for years, and...I'm still seeing the same 20% processor spikes (which is notable compared to all the other sites I have open in dozens of tabs, though it reminds me there's one mainstream-ish news site with even worse behavior that I might go ask AskMe about now...)
posted by nobody at 7:11 PM on September 27, 2023
At the risk of continuing a derail (processor usage) to a derail (piracy ethics), this finally got me to install uBlock after sticking with Ghostery for years, and...I'm still seeing the same 20% processor spikes (which is notable compared to all the other sites I have open in dozens of tabs, though it reminds me there's one mainstream-ish news site with even worse behavior that I might go ask AskMe about now...)
posted by nobody at 7:11 PM on September 27, 2023
Yes, paying for a good service is also my preference. I will not pay if it also has ads. That's the end of the story for the economics of the situation. I hypothetically harm the workers of every company I don't buy from. The only way to avoid harming workers is for me to spend all my money right now.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 7:13 PM on September 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by I-Write-Essays at 7:13 PM on September 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
Talking of…
Penniless, Barefoot David Zaslav Wanders L.A. Streets After Reaching Deal With WGA
posted by Artw at 7:41 PM on September 27, 2023 [9 favorites]
Penniless, Barefoot David Zaslav Wanders L.A. Streets After Reaching Deal With WGA
posted by Artw at 7:41 PM on September 27, 2023 [9 favorites]
We should not be paying for digital goods, we should be paying for labor. That is why platforms like Patreon are so important for creating a sustainable ecosystem for supporting artists.
So many hundreds of artists are required to make a show/movie. Does every writer need a patreon, and every hair stylist and every make-up artist and every mic operator and every editor and...and...and...
It would be nice if there was some way for us to pay all those people at the same time, perhaps with a subscription service or with ads?
On the ad note...How many years has it been since TiVo was invented? 20? Only in the last 20 years have we had access to entertainment at home without advertising. Literally the only non-advertising supported channels were the Premium Cable channels (HBO, Showtime, etc.) and public broadcasting. Everything else had ads, remember? We had to watch them all (or mute the TV and have conversations instead)!
I'm annoyed that I have to watch ads on a service I pay for, but I paid for cable too and it showed me ads all the time. People need to be paid (there have been many arguments about whether streaming makes money or not, I wont diverge into that here) and that money either comes from us or from the advertisers.
posted by LizBoBiz at 8:20 PM on September 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
So many hundreds of artists are required to make a show/movie. Does every writer need a patreon, and every hair stylist and every make-up artist and every mic operator and every editor and...and...and...
It would be nice if there was some way for us to pay all those people at the same time, perhaps with a subscription service or with ads?
On the ad note...How many years has it been since TiVo was invented? 20? Only in the last 20 years have we had access to entertainment at home without advertising. Literally the only non-advertising supported channels were the Premium Cable channels (HBO, Showtime, etc.) and public broadcasting. Everything else had ads, remember? We had to watch them all (or mute the TV and have conversations instead)!
I'm annoyed that I have to watch ads on a service I pay for, but I paid for cable too and it showed me ads all the time. People need to be paid (there have been many arguments about whether streaming makes money or not, I wont diverge into that here) and that money either comes from us or from the advertisers.
posted by LizBoBiz at 8:20 PM on September 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
Harley Quinn writer/Abbot Elementary producer Justin Halpern posted a short smart Twitter thread yesterday (Threadreader version):
To the WGA members. I think this is a good deal. It will be tested over the next three years because that’s what always happens. It will be poked and prodded by the AMPTP and business affairs and whomever else is trying to make a little more money by spending less.
So we have to stay aware of changes in the business, which will come! And as they come we have to adapt the contract to protect ourselves. These contracts are chipped away at, one tiny piece at a time, and if we aren’t constantly paying attention & engaging, we’ll be back here.
So let’s not! We showed incredibly solidarity and vigilance. We can do that in non strike times as well. Be aware of, as @KenTremendous calls it, fuckery. It will bubble up and we have to be alert and let each other know.
And lastly, we do not win this contract without the help do the teamsters and IATSE who sacrificed a shit ton for us. When it’s their turn we have to be there for them.
posted by mediareport at 8:41 PM on September 27, 2023 [10 favorites]
To the WGA members. I think this is a good deal. It will be tested over the next three years because that’s what always happens. It will be poked and prodded by the AMPTP and business affairs and whomever else is trying to make a little more money by spending less.
So we have to stay aware of changes in the business, which will come! And as they come we have to adapt the contract to protect ourselves. These contracts are chipped away at, one tiny piece at a time, and if we aren’t constantly paying attention & engaging, we’ll be back here.
So let’s not! We showed incredibly solidarity and vigilance. We can do that in non strike times as well. Be aware of, as @KenTremendous calls it, fuckery. It will bubble up and we have to be alert and let each other know.
And lastly, we do not win this contract without the help do the teamsters and IATSE who sacrificed a shit ton for us. When it’s their turn we have to be there for them.
posted by mediareport at 8:41 PM on September 27, 2023 [10 favorites]
On the ad note...How many years has it been since TiVo was invented? 20?
Even limiting home entertainment to TV the VCR was in homes 30 years before TiVo. Opening the scope the turntable/record player/gramophone was around for a 100 years before the VCR. Neither of those things pushed ads as a condition of use in most cases. And of course books have been around for ~500 years. To say in home entertainment necessarily requires ads is ignoring other ways it can be done.
There are other models besides ads but capitalism seeking continuous growth can't leave any revenue sitting on the table even if it kills their product. Cripes they tried putting advertising into books at one point.
posted by Mitheral at 5:11 AM on September 28, 2023 [4 favorites]
Even limiting home entertainment to TV the VCR was in homes 30 years before TiVo. Opening the scope the turntable/record player/gramophone was around for a 100 years before the VCR. Neither of those things pushed ads as a condition of use in most cases. And of course books have been around for ~500 years. To say in home entertainment necessarily requires ads is ignoring other ways it can be done.
There are other models besides ads but capitalism seeking continuous growth can't leave any revenue sitting on the table even if it kills their product. Cripes they tried putting advertising into books at one point.
posted by Mitheral at 5:11 AM on September 28, 2023 [4 favorites]
> that money either comes from us or from the advertisers.
If your money comes from ads, your audience is not your customer, it is your product. It will be the advertisers who decide what culture gets produced. This must not be allowed to continue: the money must come from us, and the ad industry cut out like cancer.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 6:17 AM on September 28, 2023 [5 favorites]
If your money comes from ads, your audience is not your customer, it is your product. It will be the advertisers who decide what culture gets produced. This must not be allowed to continue: the money must come from us, and the ad industry cut out like cancer.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 6:17 AM on September 28, 2023 [5 favorites]
> If your money comes from ads, your audience is not your customer, it is your product. It will be the advertisers who decide what culture gets produced.
Louder for the folks in the back!
Ads are not inevitable. They are certainly not unavoidable.
posted by MiraK at 7:03 AM on September 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
Louder for the folks in the back!
Ads are not inevitable. They are certainly not unavoidable.
posted by MiraK at 7:03 AM on September 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
How many years has it been since TiVo was invented? 20? Only in the last 20 years have we had access to entertainment at home without advertising
Don't forget that the first DVRs were slammed with lawsuits about skipping ads and had to pull it back.
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:34 AM on September 28, 2023
Don't forget that the first DVRs were slammed with lawsuits about skipping ads and had to pull it back.
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:34 AM on September 28, 2023
Neither of those things pushed ads as a condition of use in most cases.
What? You don't remember fast forwarding through trailers and all the shit before the movie on VHS? If anything it's been gotten worse as media companies have been innovating on sneaking ads into the home video market for decades. Unskippable commercials before playback on DVDs and Blu-Rays. Interstitial ads between episodes of TV shows on box sets. They're sure as hell infecting the home video market and because these titles are programs run on a computer not linear video streams, at least as far as regular consumers are concerned, it's harder to ignore them.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 8:12 AM on September 28, 2023
What? You don't remember fast forwarding through trailers and all the shit before the movie on VHS? If anything it's been gotten worse as media companies have been innovating on sneaking ads into the home video market for decades. Unskippable commercials before playback on DVDs and Blu-Rays. Interstitial ads between episodes of TV shows on box sets. They're sure as hell infecting the home video market and because these titles are programs run on a computer not linear video streams, at least as far as regular consumers are concerned, it's harder to ignore them.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 8:12 AM on September 28, 2023
Even limiting home entertainment to TV the VCR was in homes 30 years before TiVo. Opening the scope the turntable/record player/gramophone was around for a 100 years before the VCR. Neither of those things pushed ads as a condition of use in most cases.
Yes, those things used inputs that you had to purchase or produce yourself (records) just like vcrs and dvd players and mp3 players. Owning a tv itself does not require ads either, but if I want to watch something on it, I generally need to pay for that. Either through a purchase or subscription service or I can watch the free tv over the airwaves…with ads.
However, the content on those devices must be paid for somehow or artists aren’t getting paid. I think we can all agree and that more money should go to the artists, but nothing is free.
posted by LizBoBiz at 4:13 AM on September 29, 2023
Yes, those things used inputs that you had to purchase or produce yourself (records) just like vcrs and dvd players and mp3 players. Owning a tv itself does not require ads either, but if I want to watch something on it, I generally need to pay for that. Either through a purchase or subscription service or I can watch the free tv over the airwaves…with ads.
However, the content on those devices must be paid for somehow or artists aren’t getting paid. I think we can all agree and that more money should go to the artists, but nothing is free.
posted by LizBoBiz at 4:13 AM on September 29, 2023
I think we can all agree and that more money should go to the artists, but nothing is free.
I think we can disagree quite a bit on the terms. I find media piracy most of the time quite principled and ethical considering the alternative. Often smaller creators will still find ways for direct donations (and some even condone the piracy that the companies they work for condemn). And I bought both the computer and the TV that I'm using to watch media, so I suppose nothing is free.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 5:57 AM on September 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
I think we can disagree quite a bit on the terms. I find media piracy most of the time quite principled and ethical considering the alternative. Often smaller creators will still find ways for direct donations (and some even condone the piracy that the companies they work for condemn). And I bought both the computer and the TV that I'm using to watch media, so I suppose nothing is free.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 5:57 AM on September 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
That's exactly it. We all agree that artists should get payed. But artists don't get payed when their company won't provide a product people are willing to pay for. Piracy isn't the reason artists aren't getting payed.
When an ad accidentally makes it through to me, the desperate spasm I undertake to turn it off is exactly the same as someone trying to turn off their alarm in the morning after being jump-scared into wakefulness. From half-asleep in bed, to jumping to my computer in 0.5 seconds flat. It makes my heart race. I would rather not watch a piece of media at all than watch it with ads, and there are so many alternatives I can pick from.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 7:00 AM on September 29, 2023
When an ad accidentally makes it through to me, the desperate spasm I undertake to turn it off is exactly the same as someone trying to turn off their alarm in the morning after being jump-scared into wakefulness. From half-asleep in bed, to jumping to my computer in 0.5 seconds flat. It makes my heart race. I would rather not watch a piece of media at all than watch it with ads, and there are so many alternatives I can pick from.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 7:00 AM on September 29, 2023
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
It'll also be interesting to see how solidarity will work next year, when the big IATSE film and TV crew union (International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees) enters negotiations before its contract expires at the end of July. The vote to approve their last contract in 2021 was extremely close, and in fact if IATSE didn't use a delegate/electoral college system, would have failed. Long work hours and lack of breaks were major issues that haven't gone away.
posted by mediareport at 11:07 PM on September 26, 2023 [10 favorites]