Oh, the Schadenfreude!
October 3, 2023 12:31 PM Subscribe
Oh, the schadenfreude! -- On Amanpour, David Cay Johnson talks to Hari Sreenivasan about the coming just desserts of TFG. Warning: Viewing and/or just listening to this is relentlessly entertaining and uplifting. To and for you! Or so I hope.
See also John Kelly, a Former White House Chief of Staff, Confirms Trump's Disparaging of Veterans and consider the source. The ice dams are collapsing -- watch out for flash floods!
See also John Kelly, a Former White House Chief of Staff, Confirms Trump's Disparaging of Veterans and consider the source. The ice dams are collapsing -- watch out for flash floods!
By MeFi standards, I am not a doomer. But I am reserving any joy I feel. Right now, best I can do is grim satisfaction. I will save the schadenfreude until the door clangs behind him—at least, in some sense—without undue loss of life or civil unrest. I know this is magical thinking, but I still feel slightly guilty for being happy after the election instead of being worried.
posted by Countess Elena at 12:52 PM on October 3, 2023 [28 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 12:52 PM on October 3, 2023 [28 favorites]
My favorite note from today's Gaetz vs. McCarthy hatefest (from WaPost):
Were you wondering why Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) and those voting to oust Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) are speaking from the Democratic side of the aisle? Well, according to multiple people familiar with the matter, Republicans would not allow him to speak from their side. The vitriol within the GOP conference against Gaetz is palpable, and we are all seeing it based on this small move.
Just not a good week for our friends on the hard right.
posted by Midnight Skulker at 12:58 PM on October 3, 2023 [12 favorites]
Were you wondering why Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) and those voting to oust Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) are speaking from the Democratic side of the aisle? Well, according to multiple people familiar with the matter, Republicans would not allow him to speak from their side. The vitriol within the GOP conference against Gaetz is palpable, and we are all seeing it based on this small move.
Just not a good week for our friends on the hard right.
posted by Midnight Skulker at 12:58 PM on October 3, 2023 [12 favorites]
How much "surely this" can we stand?
And I'll leave my other doomer thoughts untyped for my own health.
posted by Xoder at 1:04 PM on October 3, 2023 [16 favorites]
And I'll leave my other doomer thoughts untyped for my own health.
posted by Xoder at 1:04 PM on October 3, 2023 [16 favorites]
coming just desserts
Never celebrate until you're over the line.
posted by mhoye at 1:05 PM on October 3, 2023 [10 favorites]
Never celebrate until you're over the line.
posted by mhoye at 1:05 PM on October 3, 2023 [10 favorites]
In any case, David Cay Johnson's interview is worth a Yes! and an arm punch in the air imho. If even for a moment.
posted by y2karl at 1:05 PM on October 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by y2karl at 1:05 PM on October 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'd be a lot more excited about the whole Trump disses the troops thing if I thought it'd make any difference to his electoral chances. For everyone but his cultists this is confirmation (always nice) for known awfulness, for his cultists this is just one more lie from the Evil Communazi Trump Derangement Syndrome crowd.
As for the legal cases, I'll reserve my celebration until he's actually forced to pay a penalty. As in actual cash out of his pocket not merely sentenced to pay a fine. Never forget that Exxon was fined 2.5 billion in punitive damages and kept it tied up in appeals for TEN FUCKING YEARS until in 2008 it was overturned.
So I'll celebrate when Trump is either in jail or actually pays a fine. This is America, land of the rich being sentenced to big fines then later and quietly whittling the fine down to nothing.
However, I have unreservedly broken out the popcorn and am watching with sheer glee as Gaetz and McCarthy tear each other apart. I don't care which of them wins, they'll hurt each other so that's cool by me.
My only fear is that the Democrats will indulge their self destructive urges and save McCarthy.
posted by sotonohito at 1:07 PM on October 3, 2023 [19 favorites]
As for the legal cases, I'll reserve my celebration until he's actually forced to pay a penalty. As in actual cash out of his pocket not merely sentenced to pay a fine. Never forget that Exxon was fined 2.5 billion in punitive damages and kept it tied up in appeals for TEN FUCKING YEARS until in 2008 it was overturned.
So I'll celebrate when Trump is either in jail or actually pays a fine. This is America, land of the rich being sentenced to big fines then later and quietly whittling the fine down to nothing.
However, I have unreservedly broken out the popcorn and am watching with sheer glee as Gaetz and McCarthy tear each other apart. I don't care which of them wins, they'll hurt each other so that's cool by me.
My only fear is that the Democrats will indulge their self destructive urges and save McCarthy.
posted by sotonohito at 1:07 PM on October 3, 2023 [19 favorites]
I'm not interested in anyone who wants to launder General John "Onboard for the dictatorship, sad about disrespecting soldiers" Kelly's reputation
I'm not interested in Kelly's reputation, but I am interested in what he's saying, and that he's saying it now. I think it's an important sign that a number of former Trump staff are starting to come clean, because it tells us important things about where this is all going.
It's like watching rats start to desert a ship. It's important info, but not because I'm worried about the rats.
posted by heyitsgogi at 1:28 PM on October 3, 2023 [26 favorites]
I'm not interested in Kelly's reputation, but I am interested in what he's saying, and that he's saying it now. I think it's an important sign that a number of former Trump staff are starting to come clean, because it tells us important things about where this is all going.
It's like watching rats start to desert a ship. It's important info, but not because I'm worried about the rats.
posted by heyitsgogi at 1:28 PM on October 3, 2023 [26 favorites]
History made, McCarthy voted out.
posted by glonous keming at 1:55 PM on October 3, 2023 [16 favorites]
posted by glonous keming at 1:55 PM on October 3, 2023 [16 favorites]
even rats would not do that to their House Speaker
posted by elkevelvet at 1:59 PM on October 3, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by elkevelvet at 1:59 PM on October 3, 2023 [5 favorites]
I'd be a lot more excited about the whole Trump disses the troops thing if I thought it'd make any difference to his electoral chances.
Right. The man can and literally does anything and nothing will sway the dumb masses from voting for him. He could nuke America and still get all the votes. So he insulted a sacred cow, so what. That's a Tuesday for him.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:03 PM on October 3, 2023 [13 favorites]
Right. The man can and literally does anything and nothing will sway the dumb masses from voting for him. He could nuke America and still get all the votes. So he insulted a sacred cow, so what. That's a Tuesday for him.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:03 PM on October 3, 2023 [13 favorites]
The ice dams are collapsing -- watch out for flash floods!The emphasized is the gist of it for me. It's a relief to see the slow wheels of justice start to grind with intention. But the grim reality is that none of this ends well, even if it ends justly. I have no joy in considering the days ahead, because I frankly can't confidently envision the world we live in when the dust settles. Storm's a-comin'.
posted by Brak at 2:11 PM on October 3, 2023 [13 favorites]
Well, it's the rats what left the ship years ago, to be sure. But the fact they are piping up now is a sign of their losing their fear that he can ever come back. What David Cay Johnson is talking about is the judgement by the actual judge, if I am not correct. The interview describes the dismantlement and selling off of his fraudulent sham empire so ordered wherein TFG gets back "what's left" on every count. Which ain't nothin'. Hence my own schadenfreude. Apart from Clarence Thomas, no doubt, I wonder how many left of the super-majority would care to pick up that unpinned grenade on appeal. tldr: TFG is toast.
Or so we can only hope until it happens but things are definitely looking up...
posted by y2karl at 2:13 PM on October 3, 2023 [5 favorites]
Or so we can only hope until it happens but things are definitely looking up...
posted by y2karl at 2:13 PM on October 3, 2023 [5 favorites]
History made, McCarthy voted out.
What's the Dem's analysis/endgame in voting with the hardline repubs? I'm asking this genuinely.
Yes, I know McCarthy is a vile shitstain, and "a win's when your enemy is hurt", but aren't the potential replacements even viler/crazier? Mcarthy swallowed shit and voted to continue government funding whereas some futher right R replacements speakers would watch it all burn.
posted by lalochezia at 2:21 PM on October 3, 2023 [14 favorites]
As far as I can tell, all the Kelly piece is doing, is confirming (again) that Trump said all the things he was reported as having said at the time. When there were also witnesses. People didn't care then, when it was fresh. Him saying it now is yet another "if it actually mattered to you, then why didn't you say something earlier" garbage Republican book-sale-bait that I'd love to think would make any difference, but that cynical MAGA people will just see as "he's lying to boost sales" anyway.
As for the interview, it was glorious. But if it happens (turn turn turn spit), it's just one more "my enemies are persecuting me" log on his fire, so will it actually hurt him? He already has lawyers working for him who (you would think) by now have to realize that he doesn't pay his lawyers, so him being broke doesn't seem to stop anything. I dunno, man.
When it comes to TFG, I just don't have any schadenfreude left. I don't even believe he'll be reelected (TTTS), I just know now that people will support him and want him to be the guy in charge of the country no matter what he says or does, and that alone depresses the hell out of me. McCarthy, on the other hand... that did get me a bit of a giggle.
posted by Mchelly at 2:21 PM on October 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
As for the interview, it was glorious. But if it happens (turn turn turn spit), it's just one more "my enemies are persecuting me" log on his fire, so will it actually hurt him? He already has lawyers working for him who (you would think) by now have to realize that he doesn't pay his lawyers, so him being broke doesn't seem to stop anything. I dunno, man.
When it comes to TFG, I just don't have any schadenfreude left. I don't even believe he'll be reelected (TTTS), I just know now that people will support him and want him to be the guy in charge of the country no matter what he says or does, and that alone depresses the hell out of me. McCarthy, on the other hand... that did get me a bit of a giggle.
posted by Mchelly at 2:21 PM on October 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
My money is on TFG violating the gag order he was just handed by Justice Engoron in the NY suit, after he claimed one Engoron's clerks is a girlfriend of Chuck Schumer. It's like he wants a couple of zeros added to the damage verdict.
posted by JoeZydeco at 2:24 PM on October 3, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by JoeZydeco at 2:24 PM on October 3, 2023 [7 favorites]
Lalochezia, not to add too much to the derail, but I'm also interested in the answer to this.
posted by TheKaijuCommuter at 2:27 PM on October 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by TheKaijuCommuter at 2:27 PM on October 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
Ultimately, I think it’s because if they voted to keep him, the challenge votes would just keep happening, and what kind of look is it on the D’s to keep propping him up, day after day?
It’s going to be a mess, but the mess will be of the form of “Republicans completely incapable of governing, not even to benefit their sponsors”, which will be horrifying to live through, but probably the closest thing to electoral poison there is, for such a toxin-inured political party.
posted by notoriety public at 2:30 PM on October 3, 2023 [7 favorites]
It’s going to be a mess, but the mess will be of the form of “Republicans completely incapable of governing, not even to benefit their sponsors”, which will be horrifying to live through, but probably the closest thing to electoral poison there is, for such a toxin-inured political party.
posted by notoriety public at 2:30 PM on October 3, 2023 [7 favorites]
If they seize all his assets how will he pay all the other lawyers? I'm hoping this is the blow that brings the house of cards down. Pessimistic - he's sure good at slipping out of this stuff. He's been really upping his calls for violence lately and I wonder when some judge will decide it's too much and jail him. Popcorn for dinner but what a freaking disaster for the country....
posted by leslies at 2:36 PM on October 3, 2023
posted by leslies at 2:36 PM on October 3, 2023
The chances are miniscule, but if you remove the current R speaker, you get to vote on a new speaker and the current makeup of congress is such that if somehow you get 5 R's (that have already decided they're not going to run again I guess?) that feel like Hakeem Jeffries as speaker is far preferable to whoever Matt Gaetz is willing to back, then you have the chance to regain the speakership even as a minority party.
posted by TwoWordReview at 2:37 PM on October 3, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by TwoWordReview at 2:37 PM on October 3, 2023 [7 favorites]
More likely though is it just enables the 'Republicans in disarray' narrative.
posted by TwoWordReview at 2:40 PM on October 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by TwoWordReview at 2:40 PM on October 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
What's the Dem's analysis/endgame in voting with the hardline repubs? I'm asking this genuinely.
I think "Dems .... voting with the hardline repubs" not quite the best way to frame it. It may seem symbolic or inside baseball, but the convention within the House is that it is the responsibility of the majority to select -- and most importantly keep the Speaker.
Some may call it a distinction without a difference but I think the distinction is still important: the Dems all voted to oust a Republican speaker. In this case I think it's more useful (and more accurate) to frame it as the hardline Republicans having to explain why they voted to vacate the Speaker's chair and side with the House minority.
The only reason this happened at all is because McCarthy was foolish enough to let a rules package through that allowed such a motion to hit the floor in the first place. Past rules packages have had much higher thresholds (IIRC a majority of the party's caucus).
posted by tclark at 2:44 PM on October 3, 2023 [16 favorites]
I think "Dems .... voting with the hardline repubs" not quite the best way to frame it. It may seem symbolic or inside baseball, but the convention within the House is that it is the responsibility of the majority to select -- and most importantly keep the Speaker.
Some may call it a distinction without a difference but I think the distinction is still important: the Dems all voted to oust a Republican speaker. In this case I think it's more useful (and more accurate) to frame it as the hardline Republicans having to explain why they voted to vacate the Speaker's chair and side with the House minority.
The only reason this happened at all is because McCarthy was foolish enough to let a rules package through that allowed such a motion to hit the floor in the first place. Past rules packages have had much higher thresholds (IIRC a majority of the party's caucus).
posted by tclark at 2:44 PM on October 3, 2023 [16 favorites]
What's the Dem's analysis/endgame in voting with the hardline repubs? I'm asking this genuinely.
My understanding was that McCarthy told House Democrats that he didn't want their help and wasn't willing to offer them anything in order to get it (which, if you're going to be Speaker of the House and still don't understand how to get things passed, then good luck getting anything), plus he lied to them and then reneged on the debt agreement - then when they worked with him to get it passed, he was back on TV attacking Jamaal Bowman and saying that it almost didn't happen because of them. They had no intention of supporting him when they didn't trust him if they kept him there.
posted by Mchelly at 2:44 PM on October 3, 2023 [31 favorites]
My understanding was that McCarthy told House Democrats that he didn't want their help and wasn't willing to offer them anything in order to get it (which, if you're going to be Speaker of the House and still don't understand how to get things passed, then good luck getting anything), plus he lied to them and then reneged on the debt agreement - then when they worked with him to get it passed, he was back on TV attacking Jamaal Bowman and saying that it almost didn't happen because of them. They had no intention of supporting him when they didn't trust him if they kept him there.
posted by Mchelly at 2:44 PM on October 3, 2023 [31 favorites]
Then couldn't the Dems get 5 reasonable R's and then vote in someone like Liz Cheney? Or Mitt Romney? If I'm remembering January right, the Speaker doesn't have to be in the House.
posted by still_wears_a_hat at 2:49 PM on October 3, 2023
posted by still_wears_a_hat at 2:49 PM on October 3, 2023
Yes, I know McCarthy is a vile shitstain, and "a win's when your enemy is hurt", but aren't the potential replacements even viler/crazier? Mcarthy swallowed shit and voted to continue government funding whereas some futher right R replacements speakers would watch it all burn.
The internet ate my longer post, so briefly: No, the replacements will not in fact be from the Freedom Caucus or even their allies, because they are a tiny fraction of Republicans who are making the rank and file Republicans hate them more and more.
Note this in no way implies rank and file Republicans are not, in themselves, horrible. But this clown show mess is because fewer than ten of the fringiest of the fringe can take away the Republican majority, and are willing to do it. They have no positive power; they couldn't even muster the votes to start an impeachment inquiry among a chamber filled with Fox News watching conspiracy freaks.
Josh Marshall of TPM, who has been excellent and realistic on all this, has his take here.
posted by mark k at 2:51 PM on October 3, 2023 [10 favorites]
The internet ate my longer post, so briefly: No, the replacements will not in fact be from the Freedom Caucus or even their allies, because they are a tiny fraction of Republicans who are making the rank and file Republicans hate them more and more.
Note this in no way implies rank and file Republicans are not, in themselves, horrible. But this clown show mess is because fewer than ten of the fringiest of the fringe can take away the Republican majority, and are willing to do it. They have no positive power; they couldn't even muster the votes to start an impeachment inquiry among a chamber filled with Fox News watching conspiracy freaks.
Josh Marshall of TPM, who has been excellent and realistic on all this, has his take here.
posted by mark k at 2:51 PM on October 3, 2023 [10 favorites]
The interview with the pulitzer prize winning economics reporter (David Cay Johnson first link) is fabulous. There will be a lot more litigation for sure but if what Johnson says will come to pass, the judge will appoint a receiver who will sell off all of the Trump org businesses including Mar-a-lago until NYS is repaid for the fraud. It'll be a long time until Trump is nearly broke and will depend on the skill of his lawyers in delaying (haha). This isn't over but it looks pretty devastating for the trump crime family.
posted by bluesky43 at 2:53 PM on October 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by bluesky43 at 2:53 PM on October 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
No, the replacements will not in fact be from the Freedom Caucus or even their allies, because they are a tiny fraction of Republicans who are making the rank and file Republicans hate them more and more
There were six ultra Maga republicans that voted for ouster. None of those clowns will be the speaker.
posted by bluesky43 at 2:56 PM on October 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
There were six ultra Maga republicans that voted for ouster. None of those clowns will be the speaker.
posted by bluesky43 at 2:56 PM on October 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
If they seize all his assets how will he pay all the other lawyers?
What a novel concept.
posted by y2karl at 3:00 PM on October 3, 2023 [8 favorites]
What a novel concept.
posted by y2karl at 3:00 PM on October 3, 2023 [8 favorites]
Eris tossed her apple only this time it said "for the most conservative".
I'm relishing the chaos over here.
I hope McCarthy never forgets this was because he broke his word to the Democrats. For one golden moment they showed spine and stood strong. Good job House Democrats, I don't get to say that very often.
Hail Eris!
posted by sotonohito at 3:00 PM on October 3, 2023 [20 favorites]
I'm relishing the chaos over here.
I hope McCarthy never forgets this was because he broke his word to the Democrats. For one golden moment they showed spine and stood strong. Good job House Democrats, I don't get to say that very often.
Hail Eris!
posted by sotonohito at 3:00 PM on October 3, 2023 [20 favorites]
I do feel some schadenfreude, this is a massive slap in the face for Trump.
It must be a shock for him, his business and political careers have been built on saying things without having to prove them, and now he gets to court where you actually have to prove what you say. And he will always have mickey mouse lawyers. He has no legitimate defence so has to depend on the kind of nonsense which no self-respecting lawyer would ever put forward.
It really doesn't sound like any appeals are going to have a chance of succeeding.
posted by mokey at 3:01 PM on October 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
It must be a shock for him, his business and political careers have been built on saying things without having to prove them, and now he gets to court where you actually have to prove what you say. And he will always have mickey mouse lawyers. He has no legitimate defence so has to depend on the kind of nonsense which no self-respecting lawyer would ever put forward.
It really doesn't sound like any appeals are going to have a chance of succeeding.
posted by mokey at 3:01 PM on October 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
but aren't the potential replacements even viler/crazier?
McCarthy himself could be the "replacement" - there's nothing that says he can't be nominated & voted on again.
This is just Step One. The Dems did the expected and totally normal thing and voted against a sitting Republican Speaker - the fact that the motion to vacate was started by the nihilist far-right loonies is almost irrelevant.
(From the CNN Live Feed: "Republican Rep. Patrick McHenry of North Carolina will now temporarily lead the House of Representatives after the speaker's position was vacated on Tuesday.
McHenry, who is a top ally of Kevin McCarthy, was appointed speaker pro tempore.
His name was on a list McCarthy was required to give to the clerk in case of a vacancy.
The speaker pro tempore, which is the official title, can only recess the House, adjourn the chamber and recognize speaker nominations.")
Then after it's been well demonstrated that the Republicans can't get their shit together to get a new Speaker - say a week or so, where the House can literally do nothing except meet in committees, they can't conduct any regular votes on the floor - the Dems can offer McCarthy or one of his "moderate" allies their support in exchange for concessions in writing with penalties if he reneges, which kneecaps the handful of far right Repubs who started this whole thing and forces the rest of the House Republicans to at least pretend they have an interest in doing their jobs.
posted by soundguy99 at 3:05 PM on October 3, 2023 [7 favorites]
McCarthy himself could be the "replacement" - there's nothing that says he can't be nominated & voted on again.
This is just Step One. The Dems did the expected and totally normal thing and voted against a sitting Republican Speaker - the fact that the motion to vacate was started by the nihilist far-right loonies is almost irrelevant.
(From the CNN Live Feed: "Republican Rep. Patrick McHenry of North Carolina will now temporarily lead the House of Representatives after the speaker's position was vacated on Tuesday.
McHenry, who is a top ally of Kevin McCarthy, was appointed speaker pro tempore.
His name was on a list McCarthy was required to give to the clerk in case of a vacancy.
The speaker pro tempore, which is the official title, can only recess the House, adjourn the chamber and recognize speaker nominations.")
Then after it's been well demonstrated that the Republicans can't get their shit together to get a new Speaker - say a week or so, where the House can literally do nothing except meet in committees, they can't conduct any regular votes on the floor - the Dems can offer McCarthy or one of his "moderate" allies their support in exchange for concessions in writing with penalties if he reneges, which kneecaps the handful of far right Repubs who started this whole thing and forces the rest of the House Republicans to at least pretend they have an interest in doing their jobs.
posted by soundguy99 at 3:05 PM on October 3, 2023 [7 favorites]
concessions in writing with penalties if he renegesIs this enforceable at all? Or is it just another question of decorum and traditions that the Rs are all too happy to shit on?
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 3:22 PM on October 3, 2023 [7 favorites]
Eris tossed her apple only this time it said "for the most conservative".
This is brilliant.
posted by bq at 3:32 PM on October 3, 2023 [5 favorites]
This is brilliant.
posted by bq at 3:32 PM on October 3, 2023 [5 favorites]
As much as I'm pleased by hearing the clucking of the chickens on their way back to roost and seeing the cows lined up to walk back home, I'm seriously not counting on anything of actual consequence happening until it's actually happening.
That being said, the amount of pain and difficulty all these various court cases are bringing are making me feel slightly guilty because honestly, for me, the cruelty of being inflected to the justice system is the point. Which is a funhouse mirror of an accusation I've been making against Them for years now.
I really, truly hope things turn out in a way that makes me feel like justice has truly been accomplished. Or even just a tiny slice of justice, enough to be really truly felt by the focus of its gaze. But this slippery fish has evaded all consequence thus far, and so I'm not celebrating anything yet.
posted by hippybear at 3:37 PM on October 3, 2023
That being said, the amount of pain and difficulty all these various court cases are bringing are making me feel slightly guilty because honestly, for me, the cruelty of being inflected to the justice system is the point. Which is a funhouse mirror of an accusation I've been making against Them for years now.
I really, truly hope things turn out in a way that makes me feel like justice has truly been accomplished. Or even just a tiny slice of justice, enough to be really truly felt by the focus of its gaze. But this slippery fish has evaded all consequence thus far, and so I'm not celebrating anything yet.
posted by hippybear at 3:37 PM on October 3, 2023
There's now a US Speaker McCarthy thread
posted by Rumple at 3:41 PM on October 3, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by Rumple at 3:41 PM on October 3, 2023 [7 favorites]
The rest of this should move to the McCarthy thread but
What's the Dem's analysis/endgame in voting with the hardline repubs? I'm asking this genuinely.
Why would they vote for McCarthy? The Democrats don't want McCarthy to be Speaker. They want Hakeem Jeffries to be Speaker.
If McCarthy and the less extreme Republicans wanted Democratic votes, they should have entered into a coalition agreement.
but aren't the potential replacements even viler/crazier?
Expect Democrats to vote in lockstep against any of them, too.
This is a 100% GOP shitstorm and it's on them to unfuck themselves. Good luck with that, fuckos.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 3:51 PM on October 3, 2023 [17 favorites]
What's the Dem's analysis/endgame in voting with the hardline repubs? I'm asking this genuinely.
Why would they vote for McCarthy? The Democrats don't want McCarthy to be Speaker. They want Hakeem Jeffries to be Speaker.
If McCarthy and the less extreme Republicans wanted Democratic votes, they should have entered into a coalition agreement.
but aren't the potential replacements even viler/crazier?
Expect Democrats to vote in lockstep against any of them, too.
This is a 100% GOP shitstorm and it's on them to unfuck themselves. Good luck with that, fuckos.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 3:51 PM on October 3, 2023 [17 favorites]
Nthing the sentiment that John Kelly can go to hell, hopefully with a boot on his face pushing him in even deeper.
I appreciate him coming forward only for the sake of putting an actual name as witness to the shit the bastard said. In no way does that make up for Kelly's hand in all this. Dude can still go all the way to hell. It's worthwhile for the sake of history, I guess... and sadly not much else.
The awful truth we have to face beyond Kelly saying all this is that it moves the dial exactly zero inches. The MAGA crowd will still jump up and down about how their guy loves the troops and is the strongest & pro-military-est president ever. They will only see the long list of military leaders who counter that myth as disgruntled traitors to the cause, RINOs, and whatever other dumb label they can come up with.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:04 PM on October 3, 2023 [6 favorites]
I appreciate him coming forward only for the sake of putting an actual name as witness to the shit the bastard said. In no way does that make up for Kelly's hand in all this. Dude can still go all the way to hell. It's worthwhile for the sake of history, I guess... and sadly not much else.
The awful truth we have to face beyond Kelly saying all this is that it moves the dial exactly zero inches. The MAGA crowd will still jump up and down about how their guy loves the troops and is the strongest & pro-military-est president ever. They will only see the long list of military leaders who counter that myth as disgruntled traitors to the cause, RINOs, and whatever other dumb label they can come up with.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:04 PM on October 3, 2023 [6 favorites]
...how will he pay all the other lawyers...
This is exactly Trump's problem and will be, unless someone steps in for him, his downfall. He's not smart enough to pay: if he were smart enough to pay he could get the big, white-shoe law firm to sweep in and bluff the whole case into obsolescence (a la for example Enron, as noted above). But the stable genius is not even that smart. And so, in a rare case, justice might actually get done.
I could well imagine Jared/Ivanca sweeping in, though, and getting the Saudi Wealth Fund to bankroll his lawyers and defense... which is, really something - here's this guy he was president of the largest economy with the largest army and he wasn't able to get enough good-will/back-scratching/sway - to find someone willing to pay for his lawyers. It's an incredible failure of graft. Trump has failed his way all the way to the top and then, because he is so magnificent, over the top. I gotta say I am optimistic that he will, in fact, face some consequences for all his bullshittery.
posted by From Bklyn at 2:49 AM on October 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
This is exactly Trump's problem and will be, unless someone steps in for him, his downfall. He's not smart enough to pay: if he were smart enough to pay he could get the big, white-shoe law firm to sweep in and bluff the whole case into obsolescence (a la for example Enron, as noted above). But the stable genius is not even that smart. And so, in a rare case, justice might actually get done.
I could well imagine Jared/Ivanca sweeping in, though, and getting the Saudi Wealth Fund to bankroll his lawyers and defense... which is, really something - here's this guy he was president of the largest economy with the largest army and he wasn't able to get enough good-will/back-scratching/sway - to find someone willing to pay for his lawyers. It's an incredible failure of graft. Trump has failed his way all the way to the top and then, because he is so magnificent, over the top. I gotta say I am optimistic that he will, in fact, face some consequences for all his bullshittery.
posted by From Bklyn at 2:49 AM on October 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
My good friend Lenny, a Marine who ultimately died from his severe wounds while fighting on the ground in Vietnam, would be horrified at Trump's attitude toward those who were injured or died in combat.
posted by DJZouke at 5:16 AM on October 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by DJZouke at 5:16 AM on October 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
I will never be optimistic about Trump actually suffering consequences for his actions until it actually, definitely, unequivocally happens. Right now we're still in the might/could/likely/should/ """"""""will"""""""" phase we've been in for as long as he's been flouting the law.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:26 AM on October 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:26 AM on October 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
Back when Tish James first announced she was filing the suit, I ordered this candle from a fantastic site called "That Gay Guy Candle Company". I've been burning it when I've been around the house for the past few days and it's almost gone.
Fortunately there are many options to replace it.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:45 AM on October 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
Fortunately there are many options to replace it.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:45 AM on October 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
I do take a small comfort in the idea that Trump is suffering from the completely ultimate Streisand Effect here. Even in "his" book The Art Of The Deal, he bragged about how he did business was to lie to every side about where every other side stood until everyone agreed, often thinking the others had agreed first. This kind of mafia tactic works great, as long as nobody is looking too closely at what is going on. He braggadocioed himself into one of the places where everyone is going to look at you extremely closely all the time. And he was reveling in the attention, even asking for it. Only now, he's possibly realizing that he shouldn't have invited so much scrutiny into his life and that it is likely his entire undoing.
posted by hippybear at 10:36 AM on October 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 10:36 AM on October 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
...how will he pay all the other lawyers...
This has gotten some attention online: from a WaPo excerpt from Michael Lewis' new book on Sam Bankman Fried:
[Bankman Fried] was exploring the legality of paying Donald Trump himself not to run for president. His team had somehow created a back channel into the Trump operation and returned with the not terribly Earth-shattering news that Donald Trump might indeed have his price: $5 billion.
posted by Arctan at 12:46 PM on October 4, 2023
This has gotten some attention online: from a WaPo excerpt from Michael Lewis' new book on Sam Bankman Fried:
[Bankman Fried] was exploring the legality of paying Donald Trump himself not to run for president. His team had somehow created a back channel into the Trump operation and returned with the not terribly Earth-shattering news that Donald Trump might indeed have his price: $5 billion.
posted by Arctan at 12:46 PM on October 4, 2023
This kind of mafia tactic works great, as long as nobody is looking too closely at what is going on.
It also means you need to micromanage every detail of every deal, which is becoming the hugest problem for Trump's trial in New York. You can't wave off not knowing how your business was operating and blame it on the accountants. Although he's currently trying very hard to do precisely that, given today's reporting from the courtroom.
posted by JoeZydeco at 1:02 PM on October 4, 2023
It also means you need to micromanage every detail of every deal, which is becoming the hugest problem for Trump's trial in New York. You can't wave off not knowing how your business was operating and blame it on the accountants. Although he's currently trying very hard to do precisely that, given today's reporting from the courtroom.
posted by JoeZydeco at 1:02 PM on October 4, 2023
[Bankman Fried] was exploring the legality of paying Donald Trump himself not to run for president. His team had somehow created a back channel into the Trump operation and returned with the not terribly Earth-shattering news that Donald Trump might indeed have his price: $5 billion.
That would be more effective as altruistic spending than a lot of the (non-fraud) stuff "effective altruism" claimed would be good for the human race.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 1:03 PM on October 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
That would be more effective as altruistic spending than a lot of the (non-fraud) stuff "effective altruism" claimed would be good for the human race.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 1:03 PM on October 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
how will he pay all the other lawyers
His current lawyers didn't ask for a trial by jury. "[Judge Engoron] explained during the first day of the trial on 2 October that the case has no jury because neither side had 'asked' for one. Moments earlier, while he was surrounded by news cameras in a hallway outside the courtroom, the former president called for an investigation into Judge Engoron during a makeshift news conference.
"In July, a form filled out by Ms James’s office included a box with two options: 'Trial by jury demanded' or 'Trial without jury.' The filing includes a checkmark in 'Trial without jury.' Attorneys for Mr Trump did not fill out that form."
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:09 PM on October 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
His current lawyers didn't ask for a trial by jury. "[Judge Engoron] explained during the first day of the trial on 2 October that the case has no jury because neither side had 'asked' for one. Moments earlier, while he was surrounded by news cameras in a hallway outside the courtroom, the former president called for an investigation into Judge Engoron during a makeshift news conference.
"In July, a form filled out by Ms James’s office included a box with two options: 'Trial by jury demanded' or 'Trial without jury.' The filing includes a checkmark in 'Trial without jury.' Attorneys for Mr Trump did not fill out that form."
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:09 PM on October 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
Lifetime criminal commits crimes in public, might potentially face a slap on the wrist after becoming President and attempting to overthrow the government, unless he becomes President again. Story at 11!
posted by Jacen at 4:07 PM on October 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Jacen at 4:07 PM on October 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
It also means you need to micromanage every detail of every deal
Which if you look at Trump's foreign policy failings, it was always about who he met and how he felt about it. It's part and parcel of this outlook on life.
posted by hippybear at 4:13 PM on October 4, 2023
Which if you look at Trump's foreign policy failings, it was always about who he met and how he felt about it. It's part and parcel of this outlook on life.
posted by hippybear at 4:13 PM on October 4, 2023
Donald Trump might indeed have his price: $5 billion.
Is that Trump valuation or real valuation? Shoot, it might only be $500 in real money.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:21 PM on October 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
Is that Trump valuation or real valuation? Shoot, it might only be $500 in real money.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:21 PM on October 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
It's David Cay Johnston with a "t."
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 7:14 PM on October 4, 2023
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 7:14 PM on October 4, 2023
In other words elsewhere, his former fixer Michael Cohen brings up what Top Secret documents & information TFG may have shared and with whom. Which leads to no comforting thoughts.
On the other hand, his Mandarin Mussolini is not that bad a descriptive epithet for YKW.
posted by y2karl at 5:06 PM on October 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
On the other hand, his Mandarin Mussolini is not that bad a descriptive epithet for YKW.
posted by y2karl at 5:06 PM on October 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
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Kelly, just like all the other Trump enablers, is as much to blame for the damage Trump has done to the republic as Trump himself, because he watched it happen and kept his omerta for the cause. If I said what I really think of the swine, this comment would probably end up deleted, so I'll just leave it at that.
posted by tclark at 12:47 PM on October 3, 2023 [46 favorites]