Old people are VIPs
October 15, 2023 11:18 AM Subscribe
My Year of Adornment is an essay by Afua Hirsch about embracing aging instead of fighting it.
Although I grew up in the UK, I have been blessed with an inheritance in my mother’s Ghanaian culture that has always presented older women as unrivalled in stature, and beauty. In my Akan heritage, to be young is to be a nobody. Old people are VIPs and status is accumulated with age. You cannot assume the most prestigious positions in the community or kingdom until you have passed certain milestones, you cannot mediate disputes until you have amassed wisdom, you cannot even fulfil the full stylistic potential of traditional fashion until your body has filled out, matured and, ideally, fattened, too. Why, as a woman getting older, would I choose the European approach to deifying youth, when I could lean into the warm embrace of a world that regards age as beauty and power?Beautiful older people are the stars of the blog Advanced Style, whose creator was quoted last fall for an interesting article about fabulous fashionable enduring style icons in Vogue magazine:
..Having decided not to modify my body but embrace it, I would devote a year to the process. I called it My Year of Adornment. Each season, each month, I would invest in the acceptance, appreciation, and beautification of what I have. My body is my body. Rather than seek to amend it, I would adorn it.
In 2008, Ari Seth Cohen started documenting the senior style set through his blog (and eventual documentary and books) Advanced Style. “Older men and women have always been my role models and the people I’ve looked to for creative inspiration, starting with my own grandmother who encouraged me to play in her and my grandfather’s closets and fully express myself,” he says.
..One thing to note, however, is that many of the muses, especially within Advanced Style’s community, don’t like the term grandma—and for good reason. “I know that a lot of the women that I photograph don’t like the term, because they’re not all grandmothers and it kind of reinforces the idea that women have to kind of go down certain paths,” says Cohen. “I don’t really align with the terminology, but if it’s connecting people to their own grandmothers and cre
There’s definitely an art form to how the fashionable elders dress: It feels like it was earned and steeped in stories. “I hear a lot of times from older women that they have felt invisible for many years and that sometimes after seeing women who express themselves fully, they have felt the permission to go there again. Society is so oppressive towards aging and especially towards women,” adds Cohen. “Sometimes when you see people who are fully living in their full blossomed selves, it kind of opens you up to expression.” Also, as someone who has an eccentric mother in her 60s with bright yellow hair, I know there’s nothing like the way people’s faces light up when we’re dressed up together. The most stylish older people don’t follow rules, and that’s part of the reason why they’re enduring style icons
She's a beautiful woman, but halfway through her writing I thought she was totally bonkers out of touch with 'average' women.
...average American woman, waxing once or twice a month, will spend more than $23,000 (roughly £18,500) over the course of her lifetime.
I think her figures are seriously skewed away from what the 'average' woman spends.
But when I hit the end and read this: I try to consume less, for our planet...
She's just seriously full of shit and out of touch with reality.
posted by BlueHorse at 12:49 PM on October 15, 2023 [7 favorites]
...average American woman, waxing once or twice a month, will spend more than $23,000 (roughly £18,500) over the course of her lifetime.
I think her figures are seriously skewed away from what the 'average' woman spends.
But when I hit the end and read this: I try to consume less, for our planet...
She's just seriously full of shit and out of touch with reality.
posted by BlueHorse at 12:49 PM on October 15, 2023 [7 favorites]
"to be young is to be a nobody." Not the best. Is it possible to actually like people?
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 1:04 PM on October 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 1:04 PM on October 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
1. Zizi knows too much
2. 40 is not old
posted by grumpybear69 at 1:22 PM on October 15, 2023 [11 favorites]
2. 40 is not old
posted by grumpybear69 at 1:22 PM on October 15, 2023 [11 favorites]
I keep seeing ads on Pinterest, "Forget your age!", accompanied by photos of models who, it is claimed, are in their 50s. Rather than forgetting their age, they have clearly worked tirelessly for decades to preserve their ridiculously good genes by means of personal trainers, photoshop, and whatever else they got, so that now they can be held up as completely impossible examples of what you should look like in your 50s while you're "forgetting your age". It's difficult to regard it as anything but more bullshit to make actual people feel bad about themselves and buy more products. I eagerly await the day when they publish pictures of what you will actually look like in your 50s alongside these articles, but I'm not holding my breath.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 2:01 PM on October 15, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by Sing Or Swim at 2:01 PM on October 15, 2023 [12 favorites]
Why, as a woman getting older, would I choose the European approach to deifying youth, when I could lean into the warm embrace of a world that regards age as beauty and power?
This really is sort of the spine of the piece, which isn't about whether or not 40 is old, but what are you being told to do about being 40, or 27, or whatever age you are, and what price are you expected to pay for that, and what beauty rituals are being foisted on you and taking your money, versus ones that make you feel more like a person, connected to your family and your heritage? How are we to age is a question we've only really been trying to answer explicitly and consciously and publicly for a little while, and it turns out to be really complicated! (Hair plugs! Hair removal! Tattoos and their removal! Hormones! Pills! Creams! Botox! LASERS!!!!) We're all headed in the same direction but what do we want to be when we grow up? The title of her book, Decolonising My Body, certainly points to one approach to figuring out that question.
posted by mittens at 2:17 PM on October 15, 2023 [15 favorites]
This really is sort of the spine of the piece, which isn't about whether or not 40 is old, but what are you being told to do about being 40, or 27, or whatever age you are, and what price are you expected to pay for that, and what beauty rituals are being foisted on you and taking your money, versus ones that make you feel more like a person, connected to your family and your heritage? How are we to age is a question we've only really been trying to answer explicitly and consciously and publicly for a little while, and it turns out to be really complicated! (Hair plugs! Hair removal! Tattoos and their removal! Hormones! Pills! Creams! Botox! LASERS!!!!) We're all headed in the same direction but what do we want to be when we grow up? The title of her book, Decolonising My Body, certainly points to one approach to figuring out that question.
posted by mittens at 2:17 PM on October 15, 2023 [15 favorites]
1) 40 isn't old
2) I'm 47. I don't really think I'm old
3) Dress the way that makes you feel like yourself.
4) if the botox, hair extension, laser, ozempic, fad diet, performative youthful femininity etc thing makes you feel great, fine, but if it's not, life is short and fuck them.
5) There is no wrong time to wear, basically, a tutu to a punk rock show.
posted by thivaia at 2:27 PM on October 15, 2023 [19 favorites]
2) I'm 47. I don't really think I'm old
3) Dress the way that makes you feel like yourself.
4) if the botox, hair extension, laser, ozempic, fad diet, performative youthful femininity etc thing makes you feel great, fine, but if it's not, life is short and fuck them.
5) There is no wrong time to wear, basically, a tutu to a punk rock show.
posted by thivaia at 2:27 PM on October 15, 2023 [19 favorites]
6) ^My response to "dressing my age"
posted by thivaia at 2:28 PM on October 15, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by thivaia at 2:28 PM on October 15, 2023 [7 favorites]
"to be young is to be a nobody."
I can tell you from personal experience that it is not commutative. I don't get to be young because I am a nobody.
posted by srboisvert at 2:44 PM on October 15, 2023 [5 favorites]
I can tell you from personal experience that it is not commutative. I don't get to be young because I am a nobody.
posted by srboisvert at 2:44 PM on October 15, 2023 [5 favorites]
Isn't 40 more middle age rather than old?
posted by Czjewel at 3:43 PM on October 15, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Czjewel at 3:43 PM on October 15, 2023 [4 favorites]
Good god, 40 is young. Not to be an aged grouch (although I am), but no 40-year-old has any business whatsoever talking about the actual experience of old age.
Also -- speaking as someone who recently turned 70, the physical downsides (word chosen as tactful alternative to "horror show") of aging have nothing to do with the kinds of things that can be addressed with adornment, laser hair removal, Botox, or other aesthetic intervention. It has to do with the gradual, stark, slowly and inexorably ever-more-incapacitating loss of functionality: vision, hearing, taste, ability to move without pain, to bend in ways that used to be heedlessly simple and now require some care and planning and use of supports. Some of this can, to some extent, be slowed by diligent exercise, but that too is something that becomes more of a struggle as the years pass, and to a certain extent a constant relentless reminder of the slow erosion and gradual loss of strength, despite one's best efforts.
So, yes, I'm all for anyone who wants to push back against the whole enterprise of costly interventions in one's physical appearance. And I'm open to anyone who is upbeat about the emotional or spiritual changes of age. But please, do not talk to me about embracing the physical changes it brings.
posted by Kat Allison at 4:34 PM on October 15, 2023 [64 favorites]
Also -- speaking as someone who recently turned 70, the physical downsides (word chosen as tactful alternative to "horror show") of aging have nothing to do with the kinds of things that can be addressed with adornment, laser hair removal, Botox, or other aesthetic intervention. It has to do with the gradual, stark, slowly and inexorably ever-more-incapacitating loss of functionality: vision, hearing, taste, ability to move without pain, to bend in ways that used to be heedlessly simple and now require some care and planning and use of supports. Some of this can, to some extent, be slowed by diligent exercise, but that too is something that becomes more of a struggle as the years pass, and to a certain extent a constant relentless reminder of the slow erosion and gradual loss of strength, despite one's best efforts.
So, yes, I'm all for anyone who wants to push back against the whole enterprise of costly interventions in one's physical appearance. And I'm open to anyone who is upbeat about the emotional or spiritual changes of age. But please, do not talk to me about embracing the physical changes it brings.
posted by Kat Allison at 4:34 PM on October 15, 2023 [64 favorites]
he* not busy being born is busy dying, said Bob Dylan who was pretty damned young at the time. I'm sixty-four now and would love to think I'm still busy being born but all these age related aches and pains and maladies are not helping. That's my biggest grievance with aging. The pain part. Of course, it's true that people of all ages know pain, but mine is the Leonard Cohen kind -- the aches in all the places where I used to play.
* I'm sure all pronouns apply
posted by philip-random at 4:34 PM on October 15, 2023 [8 favorites]
* I'm sure all pronouns apply
posted by philip-random at 4:34 PM on October 15, 2023 [8 favorites]
If you care what you look like you aren't old enough yet...
posted by jim in austin at 4:35 PM on October 15, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by jim in austin at 4:35 PM on October 15, 2023 [7 favorites]
Good god, 40 is young. Not to be an aged grouch (although I am), but no 40-year-old has any business whatsoever talking about the actual experience of old age.
I read the piece not as her talking about what it is like to be old, but rather about what it is like to confront aging and being no longer seen as "young" -- specifically, the aging/beauty expectations for women. For that, 40 seems a very appropriate age to be grappling with it.
Granted that it is an edited extract from her book, I did not find the piece to be totally coherent. Presumably she develops the ideas more clearly and fully in the actual book. I'm curious if hair removal is such a main theme in her book, or if it was just the approachable hook that the Guardian editors grabbed onto for the article.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:51 PM on October 15, 2023 [5 favorites]
I read the piece not as her talking about what it is like to be old, but rather about what it is like to confront aging and being no longer seen as "young" -- specifically, the aging/beauty expectations for women. For that, 40 seems a very appropriate age to be grappling with it.
Granted that it is an edited extract from her book, I did not find the piece to be totally coherent. Presumably she develops the ideas more clearly and fully in the actual book. I'm curious if hair removal is such a main theme in her book, or if it was just the approachable hook that the Guardian editors grabbed onto for the article.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:51 PM on October 15, 2023 [5 favorites]
The Advanced Style stuff is pretty good, but probably more performative than I'd normally want to bother with. My old age look is likely to be more soft-butchy, which is my weekend look now anyway. I'm not really a shiny fabric/bright colors kinda gal. But my mom was, she would have loved it. And tch'd over how expensive those pieces were.
posted by emjaybee at 6:21 PM on October 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by emjaybee at 6:21 PM on October 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
"Decolonising My Body is a powerful excavation of the Eurocentric beauty standards that have long shaped how, in particular, those from the Global Majority are perceived and view themselves. Taking us from puberty to end-of-life, Hirsch shows us that the ways in which we adorn and present ourselves have spiritual implications and shape the possibilities we see for ourselves in the world. These insights and discoveries will empower you to reconnect with your own ancestry, better understand the link between beauty, history and (respectability) politics, and liberate yourself from mainstream standards and systems that aren’t serving you." (Penguin UK)
Hirsch began her reporting career in her teens. She's a former barrister. She authored 2018's Brit(ish): On Race, Identity and Belonging. A sampling of other work: African Renaissance: When Art Meets Power BBC docu-series; the Enslaved docu-series with Samuel L. Jackson; the We Need to Talk about the British Empire podcast; the 2020 "The racism that killed George Floyd was built in Britain" Guardian opinion piece; this year's Carnegie Lecture (transcript at link), titled The Re-enchantment of the World ("Afua Hirsch explores what it would mean to truly decolonize our thinking - for social justice, physical and mental health, cultural cohesion, and an environmentally sustainable future").
I'm fairly confident this excerpt is not representative of the book.
posted by Iris Gambol at 6:33 PM on October 15, 2023 [11 favorites]
Hirsch began her reporting career in her teens. She's a former barrister. She authored 2018's Brit(ish): On Race, Identity and Belonging. A sampling of other work: African Renaissance: When Art Meets Power BBC docu-series; the Enslaved docu-series with Samuel L. Jackson; the We Need to Talk about the British Empire podcast; the 2020 "The racism that killed George Floyd was built in Britain" Guardian opinion piece; this year's Carnegie Lecture (transcript at link), titled The Re-enchantment of the World ("Afua Hirsch explores what it would mean to truly decolonize our thinking - for social justice, physical and mental health, cultural cohesion, and an environmentally sustainable future").
I'm fairly confident this excerpt is not representative of the book.
posted by Iris Gambol at 6:33 PM on October 15, 2023 [11 favorites]
I read the piece not as her talking about what it is like to be old, but rather about what it is like to confront aging and being no longer seen as "young" -- specifically, the aging/beauty expectations for women. For that, 40 seems a very appropriate age to be grappling with it.
Yeah, on a second and less-uncharitable reading, agreed -- I commented after a bad day of cranky knee/back pain, and not being able to take my favorite walk.
posted by Kat Allison at 6:46 PM on October 15, 2023 [5 favorites]
Yeah, on a second and less-uncharitable reading, agreed -- I commented after a bad day of cranky knee/back pain, and not being able to take my favorite walk.
posted by Kat Allison at 6:46 PM on October 15, 2023 [5 favorites]
I'm 65. I consider myself in good health, though I have a chronic condition that's been attempting to kill me since birth. I don't believe in aging gracefully or going quietly into that good night.Fuck you, I'm going to kick, scream, bite, punch, or whatever to keep going, and when I finally lose the battle, death is gonna know he (she, it, whatevs) has been in a fight. OK, I don't mean hair plugs and plastic surgery, I just try to stay healthy to live the life I want. So the idea of wearing a tutu to a punk show is right on the money. I mostly don't go to shows any more, I like being home with my cat, but I have my moments.
posted by evilDoug at 7:51 PM on October 15, 2023 [23 favorites]
posted by evilDoug at 7:51 PM on October 15, 2023 [23 favorites]
Fabulous outfit, evilDoug.
posted by thivaia at 9:02 PM on October 15, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by thivaia at 9:02 PM on October 15, 2023 [8 favorites]
though clearly evil
posted by philip-random at 9:16 PM on October 15, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 9:16 PM on October 15, 2023 [10 favorites]
I don't know if this is a derail - if so straight into the dispenser with what follows and frankly I don't care. It's just an unmissable opportunity to pipe the praises to my wife. We met when she was 25. She was an off the scale beauty - I know because everyone told me she was and I've seen the pictures! It was not that which I particularly noticed at the time, it was her kindness, her luminous 500 megawatt smile, her alertness, her animation, intelligence and vitality. We loved each other with a wild passion, a warm friendship, we did quiet as well as we did raging forest fire. We still do. If you asked me to do a sort of butcher shop view of her then I guess I know the lines on her face, the grey in her hair, the loss of muscle definition as well as the butcher assessing his beef. But that is not what I see for real. All I see is Dutch Rickessa now as ever I did. Nothing has changed. She still drives me wild. She is still absolutely fucking gorgeous as I tell her daily. There is still no magic more beguiling, no electricity of higher voltage than her trailing fingers on my forearm. She is breathtakingly beautiful. What does any of this mean? Lord knows. I struggle with the idea of beauty divorced from love. It changes everything. Of course I clock a passing young beauty as fast as the next man and what does that mean? Precious little to be honest. They cannot compete. You see me with your heart not your eyes, a happy Rickessa tells me. Maybe I do. I'm not fussed. She is gorgeous - maybe I mentioned that! Haha.
posted by dutchrick at 1:14 AM on October 16, 2023 [16 favorites]
posted by dutchrick at 1:14 AM on October 16, 2023 [16 favorites]
40 was the end of our young adulthood. Too effing busy for epiphanies about aging. 50 was the point of checking the life scorecard, counting our blessings and taking a few months off to travel and chill. (First summer off since our early teens). Now in our 60s. The goal is to remain as healthy and active as possible, for as long as possible, and our appearance is a distant second.
Ms Hirsch is an interesting and thoughtful person, but I don't relate to much in this essay.
posted by Artful Codger at 1:19 AM on October 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
Ms Hirsch is an interesting and thoughtful person, but I don't relate to much in this essay.
posted by Artful Codger at 1:19 AM on October 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
Thank you for this post, RobinofFrocksley! I enjoyed both links you shared. I especially enjoyed the pics shared by thivaia and evilDoug. My adult kid was not impressed by the chartreuse overall I picked up at a thrift shop in Prague last May. Not even when I wore it with a cerise linen overcoat recently. I am normally a jeans and sweater gal. But I have always had a weakness for vintage clothing and or quirky outfits and I’m trying to dress up more often when I go out, simply for myself. Aging generally can be a challenge for most folks; aging while female or queer seems even harder. May we all find grace when we need it most.
posted by Bella Donna at 2:03 AM on October 16, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 2:03 AM on October 16, 2023 [8 favorites]
As to the ageing bit, I used to think I was at some sort of peak about 35 (a nice point at which the graph lines of youth and experience intersected). Later, I thought I only began to grow up after I was 58. This week, I just glimpsed what growing up might look like while acutely aware that it hasn't even started yet at 73. On the other hand, I don't see any obvious dividing line between who I was at 6 and 66. Rickessa reports the same. Whatever else this shit is, it is not linear!
posted by dutchrick at 2:08 AM on October 16, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by dutchrick at 2:08 AM on October 16, 2023 [8 favorites]
And as artful codger says, appearance is the least of our concerns as we age!
posted by dutchrick at 2:20 AM on October 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by dutchrick at 2:20 AM on October 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
As a 46 year old I could potentially have related to this piece - I did after all just pay 40 bucks for a home laser device at a thrift store and have been trying to defoliate my upper lip with it for a few months.
But! The problem is another mental aspect of the aging process (for me anyways) is that I can’t read the same way I used to. I don’t know if other people are experiencing this, I would love to know I am not alone. I think I’ll call it The Great Thickening. It’s a combination of impatience and I think maybe increased mental fog. It happened with the cigar piece too. My brain just basically says ‘too many words!’ And that is it. Anything productive I may have gotten out of the reading experience is gone.
Taking that as my primary beef, I think the aging for me is all the physical stuff is terrible. But realizing that no matter what I do, I will get slower mentally. I mean wisdom is nice and all if you can achieve it, but I was always a ‘slow body fast brain’ type and now I have to reconsider those assumptions.
posted by MirJoy at 5:14 AM on October 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
But! The problem is another mental aspect of the aging process (for me anyways) is that I can’t read the same way I used to. I don’t know if other people are experiencing this, I would love to know I am not alone. I think I’ll call it The Great Thickening. It’s a combination of impatience and I think maybe increased mental fog. It happened with the cigar piece too. My brain just basically says ‘too many words!’ And that is it. Anything productive I may have gotten out of the reading experience is gone.
Taking that as my primary beef, I think the aging for me is all the physical stuff is terrible. But realizing that no matter what I do, I will get slower mentally. I mean wisdom is nice and all if you can achieve it, but I was always a ‘slow body fast brain’ type and now I have to reconsider those assumptions.
posted by MirJoy at 5:14 AM on October 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
I wish we had an article written by an older Ghanaian woman who has inherited the status her culture grants to her, and is able to speak from first-hand knowledge to what actually matters to older women in her culture (or in UK's). I suspect it would not be fashion, but who knows? What I suspect more strongly is that no big famous mainstream UK magazine would solicit or publish such an article from an old woman.
What they will solicit and publish are sentences like these: pure gaslighting and toxic beauty culture masquerading as its own opposite.
> My mother has always said Zizi has healing hands. It’s one of an endless number of paradoxes (?where is the paradox I am very confused?) about my diminutive friend and beauty therapist (!!! LOL there goes the premise of this whole article!). She is under 5ft tall, with sturdy olive skin, tousled hair, and a fondness for pedal-pusher playsuits, so it’s hard to guess her age. In truth, she’s almost 50 (! she's literally just in her 40s LIKE YOU, she's YOUR AGE!), but (oh, fuck all the way off, lady) still frequents raves.
Sorry, OP, I appreciate you choosing and posting this article, and there is probably something of worth in it for young people (like myself and the writer) who are interested in fashion and beauty (like the writer). I just hate the framing of this as "old people". It's offensive as fuck.
posted by MiraK at 5:54 AM on October 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
What they will solicit and publish are sentences like these: pure gaslighting and toxic beauty culture masquerading as its own opposite.
> My mother has always said Zizi has healing hands. It’s one of an endless number of paradoxes (?where is the paradox I am very confused?) about my diminutive friend and beauty therapist (!!! LOL there goes the premise of this whole article!). She is under 5ft tall, with sturdy olive skin, tousled hair, and a fondness for pedal-pusher playsuits, so it’s hard to guess her age. In truth, she’s almost 50 (! she's literally just in her 40s LIKE YOU, she's YOUR AGE!), but (oh, fuck all the way off, lady) still frequents raves.
Sorry, OP, I appreciate you choosing and posting this article, and there is probably something of worth in it for young people (like myself and the writer) who are interested in fashion and beauty (like the writer). I just hate the framing of this as "old people". It's offensive as fuck.
posted by MiraK at 5:54 AM on October 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
MirJoy: I've definitely lost some ability to focus on what I read. If something shows signs of stupidity in the first few paragraphs, I'm gone, but it also applies to having less patience with extended pieces. Of course, some of it is aging, but a lot of people who are considerably younger have been complaining about what the internet has done to their attention span.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 6:21 AM on October 16, 2023
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 6:21 AM on October 16, 2023
No need for apologies but thanks! That's very nice of you. People have strong feelings and opinions about age and aging and this isn't my first or fifth post here so I don't take any comments personally. If this was my first post or my fifth then it's likely that I would be over here feeling all terrible about my choices and questioning whether I should ever post again so thank you for that.
Like maybe this post is awful and offensive and I should be all upset and questioning my choices but I'm not because people taking issue with a post seems pretty common on the blue these days and since sometime in 1999 let's be real and also I think this stuff is layered and complicated.
My opinion: Aging is a thing that will happen to everyone so everyone has a valid opinion. Everyone ages differently. Different opinions about what is old and how to properly feel about oldness and how to perform it are all interesting and they all have a place in the conversation for sure.
I am 41 and I hear y'all that I am Not Old but as a person who waited tables for two decades I can tell you that I Feel Old and that's valid. Also don't try and tell me that it would be cool for me to try to act like a young person. Forty year olds get called creepy/immature/etc if they don't act like old people.
As far as adornment goes because that's what I am most inspired by here: Older people are and have always been my style icons. My mother passed on her love of beautiful clothing and jewelry to me and has inspired me to adorn myself every day. I collect vintage clothing and the most precious pieces I own were designed for mature women to wear. Also I am not personally interested in grooming or depilatory stuff so that resonated with me as well. Body hair is just wild wooly adornment and I wish it wasn't such a taboo topic. I love when people are open about their feelings about it.
posted by RobinofFrocksley at 6:32 AM on October 16, 2023 [10 favorites]
Like maybe this post is awful and offensive and I should be all upset and questioning my choices but I'm not because people taking issue with a post seems pretty common on the blue these days and since sometime in 1999 let's be real and also I think this stuff is layered and complicated.
My opinion: Aging is a thing that will happen to everyone so everyone has a valid opinion. Everyone ages differently. Different opinions about what is old and how to properly feel about oldness and how to perform it are all interesting and they all have a place in the conversation for sure.
I am 41 and I hear y'all that I am Not Old but as a person who waited tables for two decades I can tell you that I Feel Old and that's valid. Also don't try and tell me that it would be cool for me to try to act like a young person. Forty year olds get called creepy/immature/etc if they don't act like old people.
As far as adornment goes because that's what I am most inspired by here: Older people are and have always been my style icons. My mother passed on her love of beautiful clothing and jewelry to me and has inspired me to adorn myself every day. I collect vintage clothing and the most precious pieces I own were designed for mature women to wear. Also I am not personally interested in grooming or depilatory stuff so that resonated with me as well. Body hair is just wild wooly adornment and I wish it wasn't such a taboo topic. I love when people are open about their feelings about it.
posted by RobinofFrocksley at 6:32 AM on October 16, 2023 [10 favorites]
RobinofFrocksley, now that is a perspective and idea I hadn't considered: that we need to make more space to talk about people who "feel old" regardless of how young anyone else thinks they are.
I'm 41 too (for another couple of weeks), and I feel as young as I ever did... The only times I felt old in my body was during and a couple of years after each pregnancy when I was grunting every time I bent down, when aches and pains ruled my body. I also look very young, and constantly having to tell people that no, I am not a teenager, gives me a bit of a chip on my shoulder, like, excuse me, yes, 41 yr olds can look like this, OBVIOUSLY, since I'm 41 and I look like this, and it's silly that you assume I must look "aged" at my age, 41 isn't the same as 81 ffs. So that's where I'm coming from.
Clearly I haven't spent decades working a physical job that wears me out, as you say, and I have whatever combination of genetic and economic privilege that helps me feel/look as young as I do. And there should be room for those without that privilege to have their say. Thanks for making me think differently about this.
Still, I'm finding it hard to respect someone who feels old for the reason of "I feel old because, as a literal model and beautiful celebrity, I have been obsessed with my looks all my life and this first grey hair is giving me an existential freakout that I will cover up by gaslighting everyone else about how it's fine to grow old," as opposed to "I feel old because I've had to grow up and grow old to make my living, working my body and psyche harder than most, and I'm looking for fantastic fashions to treat my dear body well and show it off."
posted by MiraK at 7:20 AM on October 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
I'm 41 too (for another couple of weeks), and I feel as young as I ever did... The only times I felt old in my body was during and a couple of years after each pregnancy when I was grunting every time I bent down, when aches and pains ruled my body. I also look very young, and constantly having to tell people that no, I am not a teenager, gives me a bit of a chip on my shoulder, like, excuse me, yes, 41 yr olds can look like this, OBVIOUSLY, since I'm 41 and I look like this, and it's silly that you assume I must look "aged" at my age, 41 isn't the same as 81 ffs. So that's where I'm coming from.
Clearly I haven't spent decades working a physical job that wears me out, as you say, and I have whatever combination of genetic and economic privilege that helps me feel/look as young as I do. And there should be room for those without that privilege to have their say. Thanks for making me think differently about this.
Still, I'm finding it hard to respect someone who feels old for the reason of "I feel old because, as a literal model and beautiful celebrity, I have been obsessed with my looks all my life and this first grey hair is giving me an existential freakout that I will cover up by gaslighting everyone else about how it's fine to grow old," as opposed to "I feel old because I've had to grow up and grow old to make my living, working my body and psyche harder than most, and I'm looking for fantastic fashions to treat my dear body well and show it off."
posted by MiraK at 7:20 AM on October 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
Just ran across a related thing on the Fediverse: image library of age-positive free images from a UK organisation.
posted by clew at 9:04 AM on October 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by clew at 9:04 AM on October 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
Well the important thing is to ensure that some people know they feel and think wrong about their own faces and bodies, right?
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:20 AM on October 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:20 AM on October 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
I don't consider 40 old but being a mother around that age I am very aware of how style is perceived. If you keep up with trends, you're 42 trying to be 19. If you don't, you're frumpy. My hair is quite short and I try to keep it cut crisp because I don't want to look like A Tired Mom Who Gave Up all the time. 30s, 40s and 50s feel like a funny gap to me where if you dress like the people pictured on Advanced Style, you're Weird rather than Eccentrically Cool. The Guardian piece didn't really speak to the things I wanted it to speak to about having style in middle age but that's not her fault, she's on her own journey.
posted by Emmy Rae at 11:17 AM on October 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Emmy Rae at 11:17 AM on October 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
Mod note: One comment removed for violating the guidelines. "Engage with what people are really saying. Respond appropriately to people's mood and investment in a topic. Refrain from making light jokes in a serious discussion."
posted by loup (staff) at 11:37 AM on October 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by loup (staff) at 11:37 AM on October 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
I was going to talk about myself, but then I stumbled over dutchricks derail attempt and lost my train of thought.
That was an amazing derail attempt; would let myself be derailed again.
posted by flamewise at 11:39 AM on October 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
That was an amazing derail attempt; would let myself be derailed again.
posted by flamewise at 11:39 AM on October 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
Hey, RobinofFrocksley, 40+ style's Sylvia Vandelogt frequently interviews fashionable and stylish folks who are older, linking to social media similar to Advanced Style.
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:41 AM on October 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:41 AM on October 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
Advanced Style has never sat well with me, just not my thing, and generally feeling put off by "old people with style" pieces. Then a few years ago I had the bright idea to see if any of the women I admired in my youth had instagram presences (celebrities, OK) and that turned out really well. I'm following people like Patti Smith, Neneh Cherry, Isabella Rossellini and Annie Lennox to name a few of my favorites, all out there doing lots of interesting things, and I feel very happy and inspired by them. There is also Sophie Fontanel, a French fashion journalist who is very outspoken about aging and style - she only posts in French but there is a translate button.
posted by maggiemaggie at 6:49 PM on October 16, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by maggiemaggie at 6:49 PM on October 16, 2023 [6 favorites]
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posted by bluesky43 at 11:47 AM on October 15, 2023 [2 favorites]