You must gather your party before venturing forth

November 10, 2023 10:09 PM

The 50 Best RPGs of All Time. [alt link for anyone who may be blocked]
posted by Artw (81 comments total)

Mod note: This has been flagged for getting a "you have been blocked" response on the url, and I'm getting the same thing. Is there an alt version of the article we can add?
posted by taz (staff) at 10:26 PM on November 10, 2023 [3 favorites]

I can read it & it's got Chrono Cross at #42 & Chrono Trigger nowhere so I'm about to be blocked for causing a ruckus
posted by taquito sunrise at 10:33 PM on November 10, 2023 [30 favorites]

Same here vis-à-vis the presence of Final Fantasy VII versus the absence of Final Fantasy VI.
posted by Strutter Cane - United Planets Stilt Patrol at 10:37 PM on November 10, 2023 [9 favorites]

ok to be actually helpful about it:
50 - The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
49 - Destiny 2
48 - Transistor
47 - Crystalis
46 - Fable
45 - Assassin's Creed Odyssey
44 - Baten Kaitos: Eternal Wings and the Lost Ocean
43 - Baroque
42 - Chrono Cross
41 - Bloodborne
40 - Golden Sun
39 - The World Ends With You
38 - Pathologic 2
37 - The Immortal
36 - The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
35 - Moon: Remix RPG Adventure
34 - Loop Hero
33 - Jeanne D'Arc
32 - Shiren the Wanderer: The Tower of Fortune and the Dice of Fate
31 - Wildermyth
30 - Nier: Automata
29 - Odin Sphere: Leifthrasir
28 - Sorcerian
27 - Dragon Quest
26 - King's Field: The Ancient City
25 - Might and Magic II: Gates to Another World (but only while listening to the Jesus and Mary Chain's Honey's Dead)
24 - Dungeon Encounters
23 - Dragon Age Origins
22 - Tecmo's Deception
21 - Citizen Sleeper
20 - Caves of Qud
19 - The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky
18 - Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
17 - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
16 - Shadowrun
15 - Valkyria Chronicles
14 - Exile 2: The Crystal Souls
13 - Xenoblade Chronicles
12 - Live A Live
11 - Dragon's Dogma
10 - Pokemon Red & Blue
9 - Dark Souls
8 - Ys I & II
7 - Dragon Quest V: Hand of the Heavenly Bride
6 - Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar
5 - Final Fantasy VII
4 - Disco Elysium
3 - Phantasy Star II
2 - Earthbound
1 - Final Fantasy Tactics

yeah this article came to start some shit
posted by taquito sunrise at 10:42 PM on November 10, 2023 [28 favorites]

No Planescape Torment? No.
posted by Paragon at 10:43 PM on November 10, 2023 [28 favorites]

It leaves out Nethack and Rogue in favor of Shiren which stole so many good ideas from them, rates Shiren 5 above the SNES one, it mentions Ultima IV but not VII, doesn't list any Wizardry, and so on. There's good placements in there too, and a list like this can't hope to satisfy everyone... but that's a reason not to make lists like this.

Still though, I sense Garrett Martin has a good heart.
posted by JHarris at 10:53 PM on November 10, 2023 [4 favorites]

Also: no Etrian Odyssey!
posted by JHarris at 10:54 PM on November 10, 2023 [3 favorites]

No Planescape Torment? No.

Suspect it’s inhabiting an implied conceptual space between a Baldur’s Gate II and Disco Elysium.
posted by Artw at 10:57 PM on November 10, 2023 [8 favorites]

This has been flagged for getting a "you have been blocked" response on the url, and I'm getting the same thing. Is there an alt version of the article we can add?

Weird. I have no idea why you would be getting that.
posted by Artw at 10:58 PM on November 10, 2023

I'm not an authority on these things by any means, but it's nice to see Phantasy Star II and The Immortal get some recognition, which I don't see often. Phantasy Star II at #3 seems a bit much, but Immortal might have been the best game I ever played on the original NES.
posted by LionIndex at 11:00 PM on November 10, 2023 [1 favorite]

The Immortal was created by Will Harvey, who also made Music Construction Set and Zany Golf, developed the C64 version of Marble Madness, and eventually went to work over there to work on There.
posted by JHarris at 11:03 PM on November 10, 2023

I note the person who flagged is in the EU, and so am I, so it's possibly geo-blocked. Thanks for the list, taquito sunrise!
posted by taz at 11:09 PM on November 10, 2023

I appreciate that one of the entries is tied to an album, because I can’t separate the experience of playing Fallout and listening to Cake’s Fashion Nugget on repeat during the summer between junior and senior years. The music summons memories of the game and vice versa.
posted by Just the one swan, actually at 11:36 PM on November 10, 2023

It's an interesting list, but some of my favourite RPGs aren't on there, e.g. Fallout, Planescape: Torment, and Pillars of Eternity: Deadfire.

I wish we had a better way to sell listicles than "Top 50". As a survey of the history and breadth of CRPGs, this list is actually pretty cool. But as a ranking it's dumb.

(Also I'm in Europe and can access the article fine?)
posted by Alex404 at 11:43 PM on November 10, 2023 [1 favorite]

Missing Star Control 2 (yes my username checks out).
posted by chmmr at 11:43 PM on November 10, 2023 [12 favorites]

I am still salty that computer games stole the term RPG and that real ones now need to be called TTRPGs.
posted by ursus_comiter at 11:44 PM on November 10, 2023 [31 favorites]

I note the person who flagged is in the EU, and so am I, so it's possibly geo-blocked. Thanks for the list, taquito sunrise!

Blocked in East Asia as well, it seems.

Regarding the list, I think they have a slightly different definition of RPG than me, because games like Myst and Monkey Island would be on mine. Also, Space Quest 4?
posted by Literaryhero at 11:57 PM on November 10, 2023

Missing Star Control 2 (yes my username checks out).

Happy days and jubilation!
posted by Literaryhero at 12:00 AM on November 11, 2023 [2 favorites]

No Fallout and neither of Troika's great efforts, and includes some games (I'm thinking specifically Assassin's Creed and Deception) that seem baffling to include as RPGs? SNES Shadowrun and not the incredible Shadowrun: Dragonfall or Shadowrun: Hong Kong? This is a top 50 console RPGs list, with Balder's Gate 2 thrown in for baffling reasons.

(Also yeah Pokemon R/B is technically an RPG but it's incredibly mediocre as an RPG, as the kind of RPG it is, and it's surpassed in nearly every respect by later entries in the series. That's a pick based on legacy, making the choice of Final Fantasy VII rather than Final Fantasy odd by contrast.)
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:24 AM on November 11, 2023 [10 favorites]

Regarding the list, I think they have a slightly different definition of RPG than me, because games like Myst and Monkey Island would be on mine. Also, Space Quest 4?

Space Quest, Myst, and Monkey Island would generally be classed as point-and-click adventure games. The genre shares a lineage with RPGs (shared ancestry in the text adventure genre, for example) but are distinct.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:26 AM on November 11, 2023 [10 favorites]

I get the "not much AAA" thing, but then West of Loathing should be on there somewhere.
posted by zompist at 12:36 AM on November 11, 2023 [3 favorites]

I think this is the first time I've been satisfied with number one on one of these lists!
posted by Ms. Moonlight at 12:42 AM on November 11, 2023 [2 favorites]

I am still salty that computer games stole the term RPG and that real ones now need to be called TTRPGs.

I bet the kink community is a little sore you stole it from them.

some of them like it a little sore
posted by adept256 at 1:12 AM on November 11, 2023 [4 favorites]

Major points for the Crystalis shout-out. Old-school, classic, and mostly well done.


At least one of these reviewers is the 'get high, game, mind blown type ' chronocross, looking at you

I will never forgive Golden Sun for being literally half a game without warning. Just ends halfway through and no indication of if it will be truly finished. And there was some sequel muckery too.


I'm curious if they forgot Suikoden 2, vetoed it, or just never played it. There's at least five games I'd kick off the list for it. Including one in the top ten. But not FFT, that's pretty close to a perfect game.

FF7 is not better than 6, just more popular


Two Dragon Quest games? Gratuitous
posted by Jacen at 1:22 AM on November 11, 2023 [5 favorites]

LIVE A LIVE

A 28yo jrpg I've never heard of because it was only for super famicom in Japan. I guess it makes the list because it has a modern remake in English released just last month.

If you have nostalgia for those 16 bit jrpgs, take a look at Octopath Traveler I and II and Sea of Stars. New franchises blending retro pixel art with modern graphics. Really great new games in the genre.
posted by adept256 at 1:40 AM on November 11, 2023 [5 favorites]

I bet the kink community is a little sore you stole it from them.

Some cognitive behavioral therapists want a word.
posted by Artw at 1:40 AM on November 11, 2023 [10 favorites]

It seems to mostly adhere to a one entry per series rule, but somehow Final Fantasy Tactics is different but Ultima Underworld isn’t. Anyway, speaking of the latter series, if you have to choose just one, Ultima IV is a good choice, but I’d opt for VII personally. Also, I’d have it number one.

The one game I’m both not surprised and still disappointed isn’t here is Tyranny, which is the only one of those BioWare/Obsidian/Larian CRPGs that I haven’t gotten bored of after 10-15 hours or so. It offers a completely different kind of story than any other CRPG I can think of.

If you haven’t heard of it, in the game you play a functionary in the evil empire, mopping up the remnants of the last state that fought against you. Because of this status the player has within the world, essentially being a cog in a larger system of oppression, you relate to the world in a completely different way from being your standard murder-hobo or chosen-one-genocidaire that you are in most other games.*

Because of this, you often have no good option, where routinely the best you can do is minimize the pain of others, not actually make anyone happy. Also, the oppressive state is detailed and, up to a point, fairly realistic, with competing factions all trying to appease the gnomic will of the overlord. For this reason, whatever little acts of resistance you may choose to do have real meaning and value within the fiction, and therefore to the player.

I’m not saying it’s perfect, the main problem is that the rebels are generic fantasy product people, and there’s a real lack of depth and definition to them, in comparison to the evil empire peoples. On the one hand I understand that, because any detail risks making them analogous either to a real-world oppressed people, or to a medieval European country, in which case you’re in a far-right fantasy situation. That said, you end up with these totally bland, interchangeable characters which I have a really hard time keeping straight. But, in a way, that kind of adds to the fiction of you being, essentially, an imperial middle manager, it’s not even that you don’t care about the people whose souls you’re grinding under your boot, they barely exist as people to you.

It’s a fascinating, brilliant game, and should’ve been on that list. But it’s not been played by many people, as far as I can tell.


* I’ll note that Ultima VII kinda does the same by making you a chosen one who already did the thing so people are kinda surprised you’re back, and then sending you to a completely different place where you’re a nobody.
posted by Kattullus at 1:45 AM on November 11, 2023 [11 favorites]

Hmm I own Wildermyth but must have bought it in Early Access, Steam says I last played in 2020 and I wasn't that impressed with it then. Reinstalling now, time to see what it's grown up to be...
posted by Rhedyn at 2:34 AM on November 11, 2023 [1 favorite]

I remember showing to my stepson the Ultima IV version I had spent many hours on a decade earlier and him simply not getting what it was all about. I had managed to tweak it by rewriting a short piece of hexadecimal code, sheer luck I suppose because my skills allowed me to use only the basic-er kind of basic but anyway I was able to ignore the magic points limit and thus could use as many powerful spells that I wanted (I must admit the game lost its interest from that point on). My stepson wasn't impressed though it was and still is my greatest achievement in the realm of programming or hacking a software.
posted by nicolin at 2:49 AM on November 11, 2023 [1 favorite]

A 28yo jrpg I've never heard of because it was only for super famicom in Japan. I guess it makes the list because it has a modern remake in English released just last month.

I've played that remake, and it's terrific! They really went way beyond what was needed for it. When they translated the Middle Ages chapter, they wrote the whole thing in iambic pentameter!
posted by JHarris at 3:02 AM on November 11, 2023 [1 favorite]

Oh, _C_RPGs.
posted by Hogshead at 3:33 AM on November 11, 2023 [10 favorites]

This has been flagged for getting a "you have been blocked" response on the url, and I'm getting the same thing. Is there an alt version of the article we can add?

archive.is link
posted by majick at 3:42 AM on November 11, 2023 [1 favorite]

Oops I meant : I had played Ultima IV two decades earlier ! Time... It made it look clearly antediluvian. I was able to show what the Apple II version looked like and he was used to nintendo 64 style graphics and playability.
posted by nicolin at 4:09 AM on November 11, 2023 [1 favorite]

Since Ultima IV has been mentioned a few times, I'll note that it's available for free on GOG.com, as well as the two Ultima Worlds of Adventure games (CRPGs made using the Ultima VI engine, set in completely different worlds). I'll note, though, that Ultima IV is antediluvian, as nicolin noted, and while the Ultima VI engine is a lot more advanced, it isn't really until VII you approach the kinds of graphics and controls that modern gamers are used to.
posted by Kattullus at 4:22 AM on November 11, 2023

Wild that Baldur's Gate 3 isn't on here.

Also, Champions at Arms? Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance (original not crappy remake)? FFX? Skyrim?

Did I misunderstand the prompt?
posted by VyanSelei at 4:30 AM on November 11, 2023 [2 favorites]

Also, I should note that the two Ultima Worlds of Adventure games are inspired by early 20th Century pulp fiction, and the attitudes of that era are in evidence in those games.
posted by Kattullus at 4:33 AM on November 11, 2023 [1 favorite]

Also, Diablo?
posted by VyanSelei at 4:36 AM on November 11, 2023 [2 favorites]

Beyond choosing the wrong entries for the Phantasy Star (IV is better), Final Fantasy (XII is the best, this is a hill I will die on after rebutting all counter arguments) and Shadowrun series (Dragonfall is the best and the Genesis/Masterdrive game was better than the SNES one if you can't leave the 90s), this list is odd. If Destiny 2 is a RPG, then so are all immersive sims, so something from the Dishonored series should be there (personally, I like Prey a little better, but I acknowledge that's a minority opinion). Deus X if you're feeling contrary.

I've got more to write about Fallout and Mass Effect, but they're obvious to anyone who has played those series. And leaving out Bloodlines, in all its messy glory is an indication that they've never played it.
posted by Hactar at 4:44 AM on November 11, 2023 [1 favorite]

Space Quest, Myst, and Monkey Island would generally be classed as point-and-click adventure games.

Fair point. How about Diablo II then?
posted by Literaryhero at 4:53 AM on November 11, 2023 [2 favorites]

I know I'm repeating other comments, and complaining about what's in and out of a listicle is the worst type of Internet comment, but I just can't help myself: no Fallout? No Planescape Torment? No Final Fantasy VI? No Skyrim? No Red Dead Redemption I or II? And Assassin's Creed: Origins is a far better RPG story than Odyssey.

Come on.

Dragon Quest V is indeed the correct one, as much as as the original NES version of Dragon Quest IV blew my mind as a kid.
posted by fortitude25 at 5:20 AM on November 11, 2023 [1 favorite]

I am still salty that computer games stole the term RPG and that real ones now need to be called TTRPGs.

Right there with ya, but really, it’s just a retronym when a previously unmodified noun acquires a modifier to clarify what it is now that its descendant is sharing some space. What used to be a guitar became an acoustic guitar; the former razors became straight razors, etc.

But yes, when I see this sort of title I have a picosend of anticipation to see what someone thinks of The Arduin Grimoire and MERP before I remember it’s Friday so I should get down to the dining room before all the pie is gone.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:35 AM on November 11, 2023 [6 favorites]

Fair point. How about Diablo II then?

Action RPG, like a good chunk of this list.
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:56 AM on November 11, 2023 [2 favorites]

I'd take a few off this list to add Ultima Underworld II and Dungeon Master (FTL Games).
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:58 AM on November 11, 2023 [2 favorites]

What an absolutely terrible list. I really gotta stop reading them.
posted by rhymedirective at 6:01 AM on November 11, 2023 [6 favorites]

Yeah, I'd find room somewhere lowish to put at least one of the gold box games. Maybe silver blades?
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:12 AM on November 11, 2023 [3 favorites]

Shadow Hearts Covenant
Dot Hack
FFX
FFXII
Persona 3

^ these are on my personal top RPGs list not because they're good, but because I played them during formative times of my life

(For a more complete picture of my gaming life, simply insert DDR between each entry and sprinkle on a little neopets & loathing)
posted by Baethan at 6:38 AM on November 11, 2023 [3 favorites]

Diablo is an ultraclicker.

FF...12? With the Star Wars ripoffs? And the main character is Vest Boy? The disjointed, coincidence filled, macguffin filled mess with a semi sensical plot? O...k....
posted by Jacen at 6:44 AM on November 11, 2023 [1 favorite]

Starting out with The Witcher 3 at the bottom of the list is grade-A trolling. They know what they're doing.
posted by fishhouses at 6:46 AM on November 11, 2023 [21 favorites]

Clicked post, thinking it was going to be talking about role playing games, not computer games. Get off my lawn, you kids.
posted by eviemath at 6:50 AM on November 11, 2023 [4 favorites]

Yeah, I'd find room somewhere lowish to put at least one of the gold box games. Maybe silver blades?

I'd disagree strongly- Silver Blades is probably the least interesting of the original Gold Box series, since it's basically a town and a huge maze with significant locations in it. Curse of the Azure Blades blends exploring the region with dungeon-crawling well, and Pool of Radiance has a really interesting structure even if it doesn't exploit it as thoroughly as it would if it were made today.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:50 AM on November 11, 2023 [1 favorite]

Let me just be another saying the lack of Ultima VII is a big oversight -- personal nostalgia aside, that game was so ahead of its time and is still reasonably playable via the Exult recreation project.
posted by frenetic at 6:51 AM on November 11, 2023 [2 favorites]

Wild that Baldur's Gate 3 isn't on here.

I have to admit I got it recently and just don't like it. Very disappointed considering the raves I saw online.

There's lots of little quality of life issues--swapping out party members and managing inventory is tedious--but also the plot and NPC companions (at least through act i) are just not my cup of tea.
posted by mark k at 7:55 AM on November 11, 2023 [1 favorite]

What no Divinity Original Sin 2 or Skyrim? Hiss...

Separately this is a good list to try to find some new stuff to try! Thanks for sharing
posted by ellerhodes at 8:03 AM on November 11, 2023

I took a quick look at the top seven or so before reading the comments. Some great games near the top, but most of their rankings are... nope, and that even goes for my favorite game of all time at #5. Then I come back to this thread and see:

I can read it & it's got Chrono Cross at #42 & Chrono Trigger nowhere so I'm about to be blocked for causing a ruckus

...and voila! The whole list is invalid for me now. Good job, Paste, never attempt to rank video game RPGs again.
posted by May Kasahara at 8:13 AM on November 11, 2023 [5 favorites]

No Champions? No Traveller? No DragonQuest?

Oh. Those RPGs, not real RPGs.

/ grognard
posted by mephron at 8:20 AM on November 11, 2023 [9 favorites]

I'm currently enamored, engrossed and semi-obsessed with Baldur's Gate 3. I play on a PS5, and while it's astounding how well they implemented a controller based scene, I do envy the high end PC players*

I make this reply as a friendly rejoinder to mark k's comment above me. This game is astoundingly detailed, layered and nuanced. As a 52 year old D&D Grognard, it has made me come to love Tieflings, Githyanki and many of the other "far-out high fantasy" parts of D&D that I just never clicked with. I'm only in Act 2, but I am still taking my time as a Swords Bard, and there's one surprising, fleshed-out and complex experience after another. There's no grinding on packs of roaming skeletons. Every fight is there for a reason, and has story wrapped around it. The voice acting is possibly the best I've ever experienced. But mostly I love that they've taken a closely examined look at specific parts of the Forgotten Realms world — a setting I was tired of —and made me a gushing fan all over again.

Yes, it has issues. The inventory management is not great. Pathing issues are still a problem with this style of game, even decades later (just FOLLOW me, dammit!). And there's such an avalanche of magic items (minor and major) and the ability to endlessly re-spec every character almost for free that it gets a little overwhelming. I've had weird cut scene triggers happen because I did something the game didn't "expect" but these issues are few and far between. Almost zero visual bugs, not one crash, haven't had to reload due to bugs or glitches once and like 60 hours in. Easily have another 60 hours to go (probably) and I'm still wildly enthusiastic. I often get burned out on long games... not this one.

But the other side of that is: You're supposed to actually Role Play this game. Ignore some of the magic stuff that's not a part of your particular play through. It's entirely safe to just sell stuff or even not pick it up! They created this world where you stumble upon one adventure after another, and these smaller scale adventures—while wrapped into the overarching story—are not necessarily all about gathering every scrap of XP and power just to overcome the next one. It's entirely OK to completely miss entire zones! Because it's a giant world you make your way through, it's not a collect-a-thon with every encounter building your power towards the End Game. The entire game is the End Game, which I absolutely love. Every session is satisfying. Each session is not just about getting to max level eventually and "beating" the game.

The game is wildly sex-positive and just about any gender identity and relationship you want to pursue is possible (I haven't finished the game, but so far you can match with whichever character you want as long as you make decisions that the particular romantic partner generally agrees with). From scraps I read, you can be poly, I thin there's even threesome opportunities. And there's a notorious Bear, too. If anything, they made the wealth of romance options a bit overtuned for my taste... I have four characters throwing themselves at me (!!!), and I have only really made effort towards one of them.

Finally, combat is a big part of the game, but it's not the main part of the game. I am well versed in D&D 5e, and the beginning parts of the game were really tough for me at Normal difficulty, but most of that difficulty came from me learning how to read the battle fields, use the controls and be effective in what I want to do using the control scheme given. In other words, a learning curve for the mechanical parts of the game. Once I hit level 4 or 5 though, the game got significantly easier. If you're intimidated by the systems and complexity, the game does a FANTASTIC job laying out every option you have on your turn. And I could see turning the difficulty to Easy making the battles, um... really easy.

But I mostly love the environments, the characters, the stories. So many zones where you could conceivably go in murderously, or side with the goblins, or side with the goblins to eventually gain power and then defeat them, etc etc, etc. It's very rarely (if ever) a "go to X location and fight one monster after another" experience.

I'm gushing, but it's really a remarkable achievement. The amounts of choices and consequences (all voice acted, many consequences extremely dire!) is like nothing I've ever seen. You get different possible choices based on the race and class you play. It's just dizzying thinking of all the planning that went on under the hood with this game.

tl,dr: go play BG3.

*Upside of avoiding PC is that in my experience playing games like this on PC, the Mods end up taking control of me, and I fall into trap of messing with Mods versus just playing the game. Buy a PS5 and play this!
posted by SoberHighland at 8:35 AM on November 11, 2023 [12 favorites]

I was expecting a list of best Rocket Propelled Grenades /confused
posted by supermedusa at 8:38 AM on November 11, 2023 [4 favorites]

Xenoblade but not Xenogears? Pfffff
posted by I-Write-Essays at 8:44 AM on November 11, 2023 [3 favorites]

I dot want briefly to talk about Witcher3, a game I bounced off four times over five years before digging into it out of desperation. It clicked this time, and it really is one of the best true role playing games as far as world building, immersion and quest design. The sticking point is that the role is Geralt, but if you can get past that it’s his story, not yours, it’s amazing deep and impactful. In particular I want to call out the world as really being a shit place to live for most people though they make the best of it, and Geralt making a real difference for people in the things he does. He is a murder hobo though much of it is justified. I have not played many games which provide this many moments of “god this situation really sucks but I’m doing my best to make it suck less.” It has its problematic aspects and it’s really brutally violent, but I have not encountered such a consistently high level of quest design and environmental storytelling in any other game.

It’s stupid but one of the things I was missing in previous attempts were that you only have to come up with the ingredients to mix potions and bombs and oils once; after you brew them once you automatically refill them any time you meditate. And the latest patch automatically applies the appropriate oil to your sword when you draw. Without these inobvious affordances, previously I never used consumables because it seemed impossible to keep the ingredients in stock.

Also there’s an incredible 100% completion speed run of the base Witcher3 game and it takes 16 hours, even with a conversation bypass hack. That’s a lot of content.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:48 AM on November 11, 2023 [6 favorites]

Only a brief mention of Wizardry, no mention of Pools of Radiance or Bards Tale ?
posted by phigmov at 9:28 AM on November 11, 2023 [4 favorites]

Xenoblade but not Xenogears? Pfffff

To be fair, half of Xenogears is the best RPG ever. It will probably always be my favorite RPG.

I still need to get around to Ultima IV. It's next on the list of RPGs released on the Sega Master System I've been going through, but I have to finish Miracle Warriors first. Now, I like a good amount of grinding -- it can be mindless and relaxing -- but Miracle Warriors goes a bit too far. I've been looking forward to Ultima IV, so I'll likely just give up on Miracle Warriors eventually.

I always preferred the SNES version of Shadowrun to the Genesis one, but they're both pretty great.
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 10:08 AM on November 11, 2023 [2 favorites]

Yeah, if the second half of Xenogears was up to par, it could claim the #1 spot. With only half of the game, however, it still deserves a top 50 spot.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 10:11 AM on November 11, 2023 [3 favorites]

No Don't Shit Your Pants, no peace.
posted by delfin at 10:36 AM on November 11, 2023 [1 favorite]

I'd disagree strongly- Silver Blades is probably the least interesting of the original Gold Box series

That's fair. I was thinking mostly of the addition of the npcs that played themselves, Bikini Chick and Lizard Boi. Were they in Silver Blades or Azure Bonds?

Wild that Baldur's Gate 3 isn't on here.

It hits squarely in an uncanny valley to me. I'd played AD&D and gold-box from jr high thru college but haven't really played and D&D since then. Every time I think I want to buy BG3 I end up watching a letsplay and bailing halfway through character creation. 12 classes? Subclasses? Feats? I just... I dunno, man. Even rangers and paladins are kinda suspect to me.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 10:39 AM on November 11, 2023 [1 favorite]

I know these are just clickbait, but even by those standards this is completely sloppy (and I say that as an FFT superfan). Several games that are *barely* RPGs, and an acknowledgement that Chrono Cross isn't as good as Trigger, but then doesn't even include Trigger.

Lazy, designed for "engagement", and I need to stop clicking on these.
posted by Zargon X at 11:03 AM on November 11, 2023 [4 favorites]

Yeah I'm picturing them sniggering behind their multi colored fingernails at putting Witcher 3 at 50 under things like the insanely tedious and generic golden sun.
posted by Sebmojo at 11:37 AM on November 11, 2023 [1 favorite]

Every time I think I want to buy BG3

It's a really good game and story, idk what to tell you. You won't regret it, and if you came up ad&ds bizarre mishmash of special case rules you won't find it that complicated by comparison.
posted by Sebmojo at 11:40 AM on November 11, 2023

As soon as I saw Marc Normandin was involved I knew this would be a deep, fun, and controversial list.

One thing I really like is how none of the entries from the past 2-3 years require a modern console or a $7000 GPU. Games like Loop Hero, Wildermyth, Dungeon Encounters, or Citizen Sleeper aren't about building a giant world with 4K textures - they're about taking tried and true mechanics of the genre and putting them into perfect focus, or creating games where an amazing story is slowly revealed to you through gameplay.

I'm looking forward to more of these types of games. BG3 is a unicorn - that mixture of budget, dev experience and skill in the genre, and a willingness to polish something until it's ready is a rarity in gaming.
posted by thecjm at 11:51 AM on November 11, 2023 [2 favorites]

I know these are just clickbait, but even by those standards this is completely sloppy

Curious here, how much did you read vs skim?
posted by Artw at 11:51 AM on November 11, 2023

t's a really good game and story, idk what to tell you. You won't regret it, and if you came up ad&ds bizarre mishmash of special case rules you won't find it that complicated by comparison.

The world keeps throwing reasons to buy a steamdeck at me.
posted by Artw at 11:52 AM on November 11, 2023 [1 favorite]

> The world keeps throwing reasons to buy a steamdeck at me.

The OLED steam deck is tempting, but I'm holding out for Steam Deck 2.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 11:56 AM on November 11, 2023

if you came up ad&ds bizarre mishmash of special case rules you won't find it that complicated by comparison.

It's not that it seems overly complicated, it's that it seems like a bizarro version of AD&D. Like going back home and there's a starbucks where the 7-11 should be and I wanted that fuckin slurpee man.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 12:53 PM on November 11, 2023

That's fair. I was thinking mostly of the addition of the npcs that played themselves, Bikini Chick and Lizard Boi. Were they in Silver Blades or Azure Bonds?

Dragonbait and Alias are in Curse of the Azure Bonds.

(I should be embarrassed to know these things.)
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:21 PM on November 11, 2023 [3 favorites]

I'll note, though, that Ultima IV is antediluvian, as nicolin noted, and while the Ultima VI engine is a lot more advanced, it isn't really until VII you approach the kinds of graphics and controls that modern gamers are used to.

Garriott wrote entirely new game engines for each of the first six Ultima games, and it was only with VII that he ever reused the same engine again, with VII being broken into two halves and two entirely separate releases. And yeah, the Lord British games pretty much did define how RPGs worked on the computer for a very long time.

Honestly, I'm really shocked to see Ultima IV listed to high on this list, and I wonder how much of this is actual gameplay which is a horrible slog and how much of it is because it is held in esteem for being so pioneering.
posted by hippybear at 2:06 PM on November 11, 2023 [1 favorite]

Surprised that none of the Persona games are on the list.

LOOOOVVEEEE Octopath Traveler!!
posted by creatrixtiara at 3:54 PM on November 11, 2023

Strange, idiosyncratic, list, but I agree with Caves of Qud being top 20. Maybe higher.
posted by rodlymight at 3:59 PM on November 11, 2023 [2 favorites]

AFAICT nothing from the Black Isle/Troika/Obsidian heritage, understandable in a top 10 list but in a top 50 a sign they don't appreciate the things I do in a cRPG. Stuff I really like is rare enough that I'm not tempted by any of the recommendations that they do make.
posted by mark k at 5:41 PM on November 11, 2023

yall sleeping on the Ys series. glad to see it represented here. really puts the JA in JARPG
posted by glonous keming at 6:51 AM on November 12, 2023

Home of the underdog's top RPG list is a fantastic place to start if you want to dip into some of the best CRPGs from the 20 year period from 1985-2005, though it will miss some of the "nonpure" CRPGs like Deus Ex (which deserves a spot on this list far more than any assassin's creed game).

Absolute bangers from the list which I would especially recommend and which appear on few other lists include Albion, a sci-fi/fantasy RPG from the era of Daggerfall in which an interstellar mining prospector crash lands on a "Desert" planet and finds a rich alien culture. It now has a native windows port thanks to dedicated fans (Github Link) and is also available on GOG in a less polished DOSBOX version.

If you are looking for something a little newer
Arx Fatalis was supposed to be Ultima Underworld 3 but lost the license and is available on steam, and Gothic 2 (GOG), has a lot of what would make kingdom come so great years later, but with a very steep and rewarding difficulty curve if you are into that.
posted by Tsifus at 11:27 AM on November 12, 2023 [5 favorites]

Super Mario RPG isnt number one? This list is invalid.
posted by Billiken at 12:18 PM on November 12, 2023 [1 favorite]

Yeah I agree with others that Ultima VII: The Black Gate should have been on the list. I remember Exile 2: The Crystal Souls quite fondly as well. I think the first Exile games were shareware? I played Disco Elysium recently, it is quite good. I don't think I've ever played any Final Fantasy game?
posted by fridgebuzz at 12:39 PM on November 12, 2023 [2 favorites]