“I don’t know if I want anyone to buy me.”
November 13, 2023 9:22 AM Subscribe
Gimlet on the Rocks After Spotify shut down two subsidiary podcast studios, n+1 considers the legacy of Gimlet Media.
They cancelled Starlee Kine’s Mystery Show after six brilliant episodes and then messed with the recordings, that’s their legacy as far as I’m concerned. I avoided them like the plague after that.
posted by Kattullus at 9:56 AM on November 13, 2023 [37 favorites]
posted by Kattullus at 9:56 AM on November 13, 2023 [37 favorites]
Long live (worker-owned co-op) Maximum Fun.
posted by minsies at 9:56 AM on November 13, 2023 [41 favorites]
posted by minsies at 9:56 AM on November 13, 2023 [41 favorites]
Yeah, cancelling Mystery Show was a mistake, I will cherish my Mystery Show shirt/Jake Gyllenhaal height chart forever.
I also think the move to Spotify exclusive was a huge mistake, as the article mentions somewhat in passing. Heavyweight going spotify exclusive was when I stopped listening to it, and all of the other Gimlet podcasts that went that way. While ads have since informed me that Heavyweight is back..I'm not. I have enough podcasts to listen to. Which may be a broader point: people can only listen to so much, and less now than before given how many of us now work from home (no commute!)
posted by selenized at 10:03 AM on November 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
I also think the move to Spotify exclusive was a huge mistake, as the article mentions somewhat in passing. Heavyweight going spotify exclusive was when I stopped listening to it, and all of the other Gimlet podcasts that went that way. While ads have since informed me that Heavyweight is back..I'm not. I have enough podcasts to listen to. Which may be a broader point: people can only listen to so much, and less now than before given how many of us now work from home (no commute!)
posted by selenized at 10:03 AM on November 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
Mystery Show getting cancelled actually made me mad. I get that it had to be a pain to make and research, but the joy of a podcast is that you have time.
So yeah, I was big mad. I still think of what a perfect narrative nugget "Belt Buckle" was and I'd gladly wait a weird indeterminate period of time to get more of those.
posted by drewbage1847 at 10:22 AM on November 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
So yeah, I was big mad. I still think of what a perfect narrative nugget "Belt Buckle" was and I'd gladly wait a weird indeterminate period of time to get more of those.
posted by drewbage1847 at 10:22 AM on November 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
Agreed regarding Mystery Show, Starlee made one of the best podcasts ever to exist. I mean, they made a whole episode about a belt buckle that had me rapt for nearly an hour.
posted by Hot Pastrami! at 10:23 AM on November 13, 2023 [15 favorites]
posted by Hot Pastrami! at 10:23 AM on November 13, 2023 [15 favorites]
jinx!
posted by drewbage1847 at 10:26 AM on November 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by drewbage1847 at 10:26 AM on November 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
They cancelled Starlee Kine’s Mystery Show after six brilliant episodes and then messed with the recordings
I have followed seemingly every scrap of news I could find about the murder of Mystery Show, but I don’t think I know the part about messing with the recordings.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 10:32 AM on November 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
I have followed seemingly every scrap of news I could find about the murder of Mystery Show, but I don’t think I know the part about messing with the recordings.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 10:32 AM on November 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
Bandcamp’s co-founder and CEO had said at the time of the 2022 Epic acquisition; but as the ensuing half-ironic, half-utopian “Nationalize Bandcamp” memes indicated, it’s been a while since anybody believed those sorts of promises.
This is a pretty important line, IMHO
posted by timdiggerm at 10:38 AM on November 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
This is a pretty important line, IMHO
posted by timdiggerm at 10:38 AM on November 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
The demise of Reply All has been discussed (I still miss Sports Sports Sports) but they really hit it out of the park with Homecoming. I didn't bother with the film remake the original is so good. Shame.
posted by orrnyereg at 10:55 AM on November 13, 2023
posted by orrnyereg at 10:55 AM on November 13, 2023
I feel like this is another example of why going into creative work just doesn't....work.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:23 AM on November 13, 2023
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:23 AM on November 13, 2023
I quite enjoyed Reply All. The IT scammer in India (of course), and the one about identity theft and handle stealing were a couple of amazing episodes, along with several others. I remember when all the fallout happened PJ Voit came out looking much worse than this article lets on (although I don't remember howso, because I have the memory of a poorly trained newt).
posted by slogger at 11:36 AM on November 13, 2023
posted by slogger at 11:36 AM on November 13, 2023
Great post. I was just yesterday thinking "Man, I am SO ready to read a postmortem of Gimlet Media" and you DELIVERED, box!
posted by capnsue at 11:46 AM on November 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by capnsue at 11:46 AM on November 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
from the article:
"Finally they demur, admitting that they honestly aren’t prepared to grow that quickly.
It was a test, Ek explains. Their answer had vouchsafed their purity of heart."
Purity? Maybe naivete. If you are promised growth, even metastatic growth, maybe it actually is cancer? These kinds of stories seem so predictable.
Or maybe it is simply the case that creative work just doesn't....work.
posted by kneecapped at 11:55 AM on November 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
"Finally they demur, admitting that they honestly aren’t prepared to grow that quickly.
It was a test, Ek explains. Their answer had vouchsafed their purity of heart."
Purity? Maybe naivete. If you are promised growth, even metastatic growth, maybe it actually is cancer? These kinds of stories seem so predictable.
Or maybe it is simply the case that creative work just doesn't....work.
posted by kneecapped at 11:55 AM on November 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Horace Rumpole: I don’t think I know the part about messing with the recordings.
This was a while ago, but my recollections is that she made little featurettes around the ads on the show, where the ads were just excuses for more fun stuff, but when Gimlet got new advertisers, they ripped out the featurettes and jammed in new ads.
Admittedly, it’s a smaller sin than being racist assholes to your staff, but there’s something particularly annoying about a company built around one thing, fucking up at their one thing. But yes, messing with the recordings is the oyster crackers served with the clam chowder of their creamy awfulness.
posted by Kattullus at 12:02 PM on November 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
This was a while ago, but my recollections is that she made little featurettes around the ads on the show, where the ads were just excuses for more fun stuff, but when Gimlet got new advertisers, they ripped out the featurettes and jammed in new ads.
Admittedly, it’s a smaller sin than being racist assholes to your staff, but there’s something particularly annoying about a company built around one thing, fucking up at their one thing. But yes, messing with the recordings is the oyster crackers served with the clam chowder of their creamy awfulness.
posted by Kattullus at 12:02 PM on November 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
Mystery show was a sticking point for me too, as well as their resistance to worker organizing (although they did eventually get their union).
posted by deadbilly at 12:04 PM on November 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by deadbilly at 12:04 PM on November 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
It still amazes me that founders till think that once they're purchased the core of what they built won't just be torn apart.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 12:07 PM on November 13, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 12:07 PM on November 13, 2023 [12 favorites]
The whole Reply All debacle kinda blew up Gimlet for me. Parasocial relationships, man.
posted by Going To Maine at 12:07 PM on November 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 12:07 PM on November 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Anybody know how 99% Invisible is doing post Sticher/SiriusXM acquisition? Besides a lot more ads, it appears OKish?
posted by m@f at 12:19 PM on November 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by m@f at 12:19 PM on November 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
and then messed with the recordings
I just finished playing through Remedy’s 2019 Control and wanted to re-listen to Giant Bomb’s Game of the Year podcasts for that year because I remembered a lot of discussion of the game at the time but didn’t have the context for it.
I couldn’t believe the amount of dynamically-inserted ads in them now that Fandom owns GB. It felt like two every fifteen to twenty minutes, and only rotated through two or three different ads. Absolutely maddening.
posted by potent_cyprus at 12:39 PM on November 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
I just finished playing through Remedy’s 2019 Control and wanted to re-listen to Giant Bomb’s Game of the Year podcasts for that year because I remembered a lot of discussion of the game at the time but didn’t have the context for it.
I couldn’t believe the amount of dynamically-inserted ads in them now that Fandom owns GB. It felt like two every fifteen to twenty minutes, and only rotated through two or three different ads. Absolutely maddening.
posted by potent_cyprus at 12:39 PM on November 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
[Sun in an Empty Room plays wistfully]
posted by dephlogisticated at 2:05 PM on November 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by dephlogisticated at 2:05 PM on November 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
@m@f -- this is just my opinion, but I find that 99% Invisible has lost some heart. It's very easy to tell from the editing that Roman Mars no longer does any interviews at all -- he just to either do some or maybe the editing was cleverer. Now he's just there chuckling along to the story, and it grates on my nerves. The stories are still interesting though. Mostly.
posted by OrangeDisk at 2:15 PM on November 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by OrangeDisk at 2:15 PM on November 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
The whole Reply All debacle kinda blew up Gimlet for me. Parasocial relationships, man.
It would be less sad if a similar fate hadn't befallen TL;DR. 🤞Search Engine doesn't fall prey as well.
posted by pwnguin at 2:34 PM on November 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
It would be less sad if a similar fate hadn't befallen TL;DR. 🤞Search Engine doesn't fall prey as well.
posted by pwnguin at 2:34 PM on November 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
Gimlet's demise is exactly how I'd feel if someone announced the Beach Boys broke up. The band was dead long ago and some people continued to make a buck with the same logos and songs but it ain't the same.
However, the belt buckle episode of Mystery Show and the Reply All with this song were some awesome podcasts.
posted by cmfletcher at 2:45 PM on November 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
However, the belt buckle episode of Mystery Show and the Reply All with this song were some awesome podcasts.
posted by cmfletcher at 2:45 PM on November 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Heavyweight is basically Mystery Show, right? More or less?
posted by badbobbycase at 3:39 PM on November 13, 2023
posted by badbobbycase at 3:39 PM on November 13, 2023
Have to agree that the Belt Buckle episode is in my all-time top-ten list of audio things, podcast or radio or whatever (it's up there with Geoff Pevere's interview with Nardwuar back in '89 on CBC's Prime Time). Of course I was disappointed with Gimlet carrying out their obvious exit strategy, but it still isn't as bad as those horrible Clear Channel podcasts (hiding behind an "I Heart Audio" brand -- you aren't fooling anyone, you CC execs who clearly despise interesting media).
Reply All was also so good back in its day. My first exposure was the Tommy Loftus episode, an example of brilliant journalism, and while every episode didn't reach the same heights, there were many that did, even considering that it violated my rule of to not bother listening to podcasts that mostly feature two similar-sounding dudes talking about shit.
posted by morspin at 4:00 PM on November 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Reply All was also so good back in its day. My first exposure was the Tommy Loftus episode, an example of brilliant journalism, and while every episode didn't reach the same heights, there were many that did, even considering that it violated my rule of to not bother listening to podcasts that mostly feature two similar-sounding dudes talking about shit.
posted by morspin at 4:00 PM on November 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Ironically, Cool Zone Media is part of iHeart/Clear Channel.
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:08 PM on November 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:08 PM on November 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
Which may be a broader point: people can only listen to so much, and less now than before given how many of us now work from home (no commute!)
I have been hoarding podcasts as MP3s for years now, waiting for the bottom to drop out of the market. Every once in a while, I feel a chill wind blow with regards to this, and this comment was one of those moments.
I’m still in the office four or five days a week – better shovel some more onto the pile.
posted by ryanshepard at 4:09 PM on November 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
I have been hoarding podcasts as MP3s for years now, waiting for the bottom to drop out of the market. Every once in a while, I feel a chill wind blow with regards to this, and this comment was one of those moments.
I’m still in the office four or five days a week – better shovel some more onto the pile.
posted by ryanshepard at 4:09 PM on November 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
Has the bubble actually burst on podcasts? I keep hearing ads on podcasts for more podcasts, with a "you can make your own podcast too!" call to action at the end.
Other trends:
- two wildly different interview format podcasts I like are launching a sibling "listen to us shoot the breeze" podcast where the hosts have no defined agenda or topic, no prep and minimal editing.
- subscriptions. Planet Money, Slate, Changelog and Economist are all pushing paid subscriptions.
posted by pwnguin at 5:09 PM on November 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Other trends:
- two wildly different interview format podcasts I like are launching a sibling "listen to us shoot the breeze" podcast where the hosts have no defined agenda or topic, no prep and minimal editing.
- subscriptions. Planet Money, Slate, Changelog and Economist are all pushing paid subscriptions.
posted by pwnguin at 5:09 PM on November 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Has the bubble actually burst on podcasts? I keep hearing ads on podcasts for more podcasts, with a "you can make your own podcast too!" call to action at the end.
Few people make fortunes in a goldrush, but some can do quite well selling shovels long after all the gold's been claimed.
Serial in no small way fucked the medium and I'm still a little annoyed by it.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 5:30 PM on November 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
Few people make fortunes in a goldrush, but some can do quite well selling shovels long after all the gold's been claimed.
Serial in no small way fucked the medium and I'm still a little annoyed by it.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 5:30 PM on November 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
I was so angry when Every Little Thing was canceled. No notice, and the back catalog simply vanished as though the show never existed. Why spend so much money just to kill everything?
posted by 1adam12 at 5:41 PM on November 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by 1adam12 at 5:41 PM on November 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Every episode of Mystery Show was great, and “Belt Buckle” is still my single favorite episode of any podcast.
posted by Songdog at 6:47 PM on November 13, 2023
posted by Songdog at 6:47 PM on November 13, 2023
(Starlee, if you are reading this [as creators often do in this age of Google Alerts], we mean every word. What you have created so far made the world more wonderful. If you decide to make more, many of your fellow humans will be downright delighted. But we also understand that burnout is real, and life is full of expanding responsibilities, so sometimes someone must just be done with a thing, and that's also okay.)
posted by Hot Pastrami! at 7:07 PM on November 13, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by Hot Pastrami! at 7:07 PM on November 13, 2023 [10 favorites]
Why spend so much money just to kill everything?
My theory is that they spent the money in order to purchase the podcast-making project team, to integrate into the larger Spotify apparatus.
As with most corporate level purchases of smaller teams, it's not about who is on the team or what they do. It's about skipping the step of having to be the type of expert that can build something themselves.
I remember when Startup talked about maybe building a new kind of podcast app that would enable people to interact with audio content the way gifs do with video media.
And I remember when the founder's spouse quit her day job to sell podcast ideas to the military.
I remember thinking, when mystery show was canceled, that it sounded like the producer was fighting with management. That's a sure way to end a project, no matter how good it is.
posted by rebent at 7:09 PM on November 13, 2023
My theory is that they spent the money in order to purchase the podcast-making project team, to integrate into the larger Spotify apparatus.
As with most corporate level purchases of smaller teams, it's not about who is on the team or what they do. It's about skipping the step of having to be the type of expert that can build something themselves.
I remember when Startup talked about maybe building a new kind of podcast app that would enable people to interact with audio content the way gifs do with video media.
And I remember when the founder's spouse quit her day job to sell podcast ideas to the military.
I remember thinking, when mystery show was canceled, that it sounded like the producer was fighting with management. That's a sure way to end a project, no matter how good it is.
posted by rebent at 7:09 PM on November 13, 2023
Can we talk about how the fantastic "here's how mlm companies use pseudoscience burgle life force" is part of Malcom Gladwell"s Pushkin network?
posted by rebent at 7:12 PM on November 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by rebent at 7:12 PM on November 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
hearing ads on podcasts for more podcasts, with a "you can make your own podcast too!" call to action
I mean, it's just an ad for a product they hope you sign up for, try to use twice, and forget to cancel for a while. The action being called for is your wallet, not your voice.
Assuming civilization lasts long enough and isn't bought by a private equity firm to be systematically ground into Oligarch Chow, there will be history lessons on just how ice-cold evil venture capitalism was.
I would love to think we have at least now reached the stage of late-stage capitalism that founders will stop doing the puppet show that they're being bought because they're special, because it is impossible for me to believe that's anything more than contractually-obligated PR. Everyone knows that the buyer does not want you or your (likely entirely VC-payrolled) employees or 90% of your IP, they just need to put up with that shit for a year to gain full control of that 10% they think they can make an enormous profit on.
I am heartened by worker-owned endeavors like Maximum Fun and Defector, and I hope they do eventually do more talking about how that sausage is made to encourage more of that in media. My heart hopes for some resurrection of Jezebel under Defector's umbrella, or some umbrella anyway.
posted by Lyn Never at 5:37 AM on November 14, 2023
I mean, it's just an ad for a product they hope you sign up for, try to use twice, and forget to cancel for a while. The action being called for is your wallet, not your voice.
Assuming civilization lasts long enough and isn't bought by a private equity firm to be systematically ground into Oligarch Chow, there will be history lessons on just how ice-cold evil venture capitalism was.
I would love to think we have at least now reached the stage of late-stage capitalism that founders will stop doing the puppet show that they're being bought because they're special, because it is impossible for me to believe that's anything more than contractually-obligated PR. Everyone knows that the buyer does not want you or your (likely entirely VC-payrolled) employees or 90% of your IP, they just need to put up with that shit for a year to gain full control of that 10% they think they can make an enormous profit on.
I am heartened by worker-owned endeavors like Maximum Fun and Defector, and I hope they do eventually do more talking about how that sausage is made to encourage more of that in media. My heart hopes for some resurrection of Jezebel under Defector's umbrella, or some umbrella anyway.
posted by Lyn Never at 5:37 AM on November 14, 2023
I don't think Spotify is even the bad guy in this story. The axe was going to come for Gimlet one way or another when ad rates dropped. The podcast industry can only support a small number of podcasts that are produced by big teams of reporters and professional producers. There would have been layoffs and ugly restructurings even if Spotify hadn't bought them out. It might have even happened sooner if Gimlet were still on their own.
The business model of ad supported prestige podcasts didn't really pan out. There just aren't enough direct-to-consumer mattresses in the world to support all those salaries. What's left are podcasts produced by hobbyists earning a little extra income and/or subsisting on Patreon and/or pods that are loss leaders to promote something else. This isn't really where Gimlet or Spotify can function, but that's fine.
It would be awesome if podcasting as a medium resisted corporate ownership just by being sorta inherently unprofitable.
posted by chrchr at 11:28 AM on November 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
The business model of ad supported prestige podcasts didn't really pan out. There just aren't enough direct-to-consumer mattresses in the world to support all those salaries. What's left are podcasts produced by hobbyists earning a little extra income and/or subsisting on Patreon and/or pods that are loss leaders to promote something else. This isn't really where Gimlet or Spotify can function, but that's fine.
It would be awesome if podcasting as a medium resisted corporate ownership just by being sorta inherently unprofitable.
posted by chrchr at 11:28 AM on November 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
It would be awesome if podcasting as a medium resisted corporate ownership just by being sorta inherently unprofitable.
Does that make fanfiction the purest art form?
posted by chaiminda at 2:07 PM on November 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Does that make fanfiction the purest art form?
posted by chaiminda at 2:07 PM on November 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
If anyone's still down here and looking for something, The Guilty Feminist is a real nice podcast. Hosted by an Australian/Briton and incorporating a lotta nice people.
posted by lauranesson at 2:41 AM on November 15, 2023
posted by lauranesson at 2:41 AM on November 15, 2023
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