Lord David Cameron

November 13, 2023 6:16 PM

What David Cameron’s return says about British politics - A man who caused many of Britain’s problems is now offering to fix them (Economist; ungated)
posted by cendawanita (59 comments total)

(fwiw I got this off of my fedi feed)
posted by cendawanita at 6:16 PM on November 13, 2023 [1 favorite]

Ahh, the double-dipping strategy - get paid to break it, get paid again to fix it.
posted by Greg_Ace at 6:27 PM on November 13, 2023 [15 favorites]

More like; get paid to break it, get paid to break it worse, get paid to break it again, explain how being rich is a sign that you're better than everyone else, especially poor people you made life worse for, die rich.
posted by krisjohn at 7:17 PM on November 13, 2023 [24 favorites]

I think the first link needs to be fixed - the final letter got cut off. It should be
https://www.economist.com/britain/2023/11/13/what-david-camerons-return-says-about-british-politics


Just reading now but the first paragraph is (inadvertently?) funny:

David Cameron always looked the part. Even the most powerful man on Earth was taken aback by the ease with which the jacketless, tieless British prime minister behaved. Barack Obama, a former American president, noted that Mr Cameron “possessed an impressive command of the issues, a facility with language and the easy confidence of someone who’d never been pressed too hard by life”.

That doesn't sound taken aback, that sounds like shade.
posted by trig at 7:35 PM on November 13, 2023 [83 favorites]

Politics.co.uk: Why David Cameron is back:

...the move is beyond sensational: it makes Cameron just the second former prime minister to return to cabinet since the second world war...

This aspect of the PM’s reshuffle is also interesting logistically. Because Cameron’s elevation means Sunak has so far avoided the political problems that usually flow from a more wide-ranging rejig...

The decision to elevate Cameron also has clear constitutional consequences. Cameron’s elevation means that the UK’s foreign secretary will be sitting in the House of Lords, distant from the scrutiny of the House of Commons. At a time of major political instability internationally, it might be viewed as pertinent for a foreign secretary to be directly questioned by their shadow, in this instance David Lammy, in the House of Commons. But Cameron will be questioned in the Lords, instead, by the rather less well-known shadow ministerial duo of Baroness Smith and Lord Collins.

New Statesman archive: John Gray: Restoration of a loser:

Cameron is a time warp figure. His appointment is a bafflingly inept move, the only rational explanation of which is that it represents exhaustion and fatigue on the part of the government...

It’s a failure of reinvention. We’re stuck in this sort of Nietzschean eternal recurrence of liberal fiasco, with all kinds of symptoms of the failure of the market liberal regime around us, every single day, and penetrating every aspect of everyday life. And yet, there is an inability to get beyond it, the ability to transcend it or even to significantly mitigate the effects of these failures. This will be Labour’s problem in government, but even then, Starmer hasn’t produced a vision of escaping the nightmare, but merely to soften it and make it more tolerable...

But Britain, there is still the fantasy that the free market can sustain hugely expensive and complicated long term investments, even more so than the US, where Biden has pivoted to a more protectionist approach to political economy. Britain has a uniquely severe doom loop what we’re not able to escape from.

Spectator archive: The dying days of Rishi Sunak’s black hole government:

Everyone who has served in a Tory cabinet in the last decade or so is, whether they like it or not, now in the equivalent of one of those Three Stooges routines where they’re all frantically jabbing their thumbs in each-other’s eyes to the accompaniment of air-horns and whoopee cushions...

Very normal, very normal. Nothing to see here. Everything’s eye-gouging and gossip, and inasmuch as there’s any substance to it other than revenge (if I’m getting sucked into the black hole, by God I’m hanging onto your ankle as I go) it’s about who’s going to be the next leader. Yet every indication is that the new Tory leader who is going to matter even slightly to the course of history is currently taking his or her GCSEs; and will be far too busy trying not to get splatted by a chunk of RAAC concrete to pay enough attention to remember the names of any of this lot by the time he or she makes the front bench.

posted by TheophileEscargot at 8:13 PM on November 13, 2023 [15 favorites]

I watched a video this morning which posited that this is a good strategic move by Sunak (one of the very few he's ever made) to take the wind out of Braverman's sacking and her maneuvering to be a power in what remains of the Tory party. Given she's a genuine nutter, this may in fact ultimately be a good thing overall for GB.
posted by maxwelton at 8:48 PM on November 13, 2023 [4 favorites]

What was the Economist saying about Cameron his first times through? I’m too exasperated to try and look it up, anyone remember?
posted by clew at 9:15 PM on November 13, 2023

For the Americans (and others): in parliamentary democracies you can't be a cabinet member unless you are a member of one of the houses of government (here in NZ we look upon the US habit of the President appointing his mates cabinet posts as a bit corrupt, all ours are elected MPs).

But in the UK there are two houses of parliament, the Commons who are elected and the Lords who are peers of the realm - most cabinet members there are normally from the Commons (MPs) but can come from the Lords - in this case an ex MP (and ex PM) has been made a Lord so that he can be in the cabinet which is considered a bit irregular (and equally from a NZ point of view also looks a little corrupt)
posted by mbo at 9:47 PM on November 13, 2023 [13 favorites]

It's hard to express just how batshit this is. It truly is like one of those wrestling comeback twists. The Sky News presenters couldn't keep a straight face on live TV. Even Ian Dunt couldn't even. I seriously just have no fucking idea what is going to happen next in this godforsaken country.

But then maybe this should be the new Tory strategy? Form a government entirely from the Lords and they can bring back some actual talent. Honestly I'd take it. Bring back Ken Clarke, Michael Heseltine and John Major. I'd take any of them over this current clown show in a heartbeat.
posted by automatronic at 10:33 PM on November 13, 2023 [13 favorites]

Of course this sets a precedent for BoJo's return as well ...
posted by chavenet at 11:24 PM on November 13, 2023 [4 favorites]

The main thing I enjoyed from this was the opposition taunting the entire other side of Parliament, "Not one of you was good enough to become foreign secretary"
posted by bookbook at 11:28 PM on November 13, 2023 [15 favorites]

Yet every indication is that the new Tory leader who is going to matter even slightly to the course of history is currently taking his or her GCSEs; and will be far too busy trying not to get splatted by a chunk of RAAC concrete to pay enough attention to remember the names of any of this lot by the time he or she makes the front bench.

As if any future tory leader will be at a state school.

(Also, they don't usually admit that there's no way they'd come from Scotland either.)
posted by hfnuala at 11:46 PM on November 13, 2023 [8 favorites]

get splatted by a chunk of RAAC concrete

The trouble with that line is it implies the putative leader will be at a cash-strapped state school rather than a rich public school such as Eton. Given the Tories' recent track record, this seems unlikely.
posted by Paul Slade at 11:46 PM on November 13, 2023 [8 favorites]

Wikipedia says his exact lordly title is tbd at the moment. May I suggest 'Lord Cameron of Narnia'?

Also, can someone start the creation process to get 'Lord Paxman of Newsnight' installed to help out?
posted by zaixfeep at 11:46 PM on November 13, 2023 [3 favorites]

Rishi Sunak may wish to quickly ennoble himself and ascend to the Lord's. If he doesn't, Starmer will wipe the floor with him tomorrow at PMQs.
posted by LemmySays at 11:47 PM on November 13, 2023

The Rest is Politics [Alastair Campbell in the Left corner centre & Rory Stewart in the Right corner centre agree to disagree politely] had an emergency livestream podcast [50m] last night: discussing the realpolitik of this shuffling of portfolios. Noting, at the flagged mid-point, how bizarrely amateur the whole system is and how rapidly the seats at the cabinet table are churned over so nobody gets atop their brief.
posted by BobTheScientist at 12:15 AM on November 14, 2023 [2 favorites]

Surely any lordly title for Cameron has to include something porcine
posted by mbo at 12:38 AM on November 14, 2023 [6 favorites]

Lord Cameron of Ham was the suggestion I saw.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 1:04 AM on November 14, 2023 [10 favorites]

There are two places called Swineshead in the UK, so he can choose whichever he thinks is prettier.
posted by Kattullus at 1:14 AM on November 14, 2023 [18 favorites]

DUFF BEERDavid Cameron the cause of and solution to, all of your problems.
posted by Lanark at 1:32 AM on November 14, 2023 [6 favorites]

It truly has diverted attention away from Suella Braverman's much-belated and very well-deserved sacking, although I do not for a moment think Cameron would have accepted the job if he thought that was the only reason it was being offered. I do think he thinks he can do a better job than his recent predecessors, and I also think he'd probably be right about that.

There are some other departures of note we mustn't forget, including the outgoing environment secretary, whose entire plan appears to have been to destroy as much of the environment as possible. Although this is unlikely to change when the government is run by people who think businesses pay too much tax and have too many rules to follow, and think that drilling for more oil and gas in British waters will lower global oil prices.
posted by mathw at 1:46 AM on November 14, 2023 [5 favorites]

David Cameron the cause of and solution to, all of your problems.

I'm no Cameron fan, but it is undoubtedly true that everything got much worse after he stepped down. He was awful, but everything since has been next level. In that sense, bringing Cameron back is definitely an improvement; certainly an improvement on Suella fucking Braverman.
posted by Dysk at 1:51 AM on November 14, 2023 [5 favorites]

Apparently the Tories have now scraped clean through the bottom of the ministerial barrel and have done it so hard they have popped out into a bizarre parallel dimension where this somehow looks like a good idea to them.

I don't really have the energy to care about this absolute shower anymore, wake me up when they call the election.
posted by tomsk at 2:00 AM on November 14, 2023 [3 favorites]

I'm no Cameron fan, but it is undoubtedly true that everything got much worse after he stepped down. He was awful, but everything since has been next level. In that sense, bringing Cameron back is definitely an improvement; certainly an improvement on Suella fucking Braverman.

Barely. He's more acceptable to the centre and doesn't performatively foam at the mouth, sure, but he's enormously corrupt and now has a lifetime seat in the upper house to abuse at his leisure once he's seen out what will undoubtedly be a short term as foreign secretary.

Things got worse after he resigned in large part because he immediately ran away from the mess he created, as you'd expect from a spoilt coward. That meant that many less deranged Tories (I use the term relatively) also had to depart as Remainer-Traitors, leaving headbanging Brexit cultists and opportunistic parasites (again, relative) running the asylum. In many ways he's caused more damage to this country than any other politician in living memory. Letting him back near the levers of power is really quite scary, and the fact that some people view him as acceptable again is depressing on several levels.

And Johnson will now be thinking "Well if Dave can come back, why not me?" Ugh...
posted by tomsk at 2:22 AM on November 14, 2023 [37 favorites]

Yeah, I just think the headbanging Brexit cultists are objectively worse than the people who were ineffectual at opposing them. I just don't see why handing Johnson the reins is more evil than being Boris Johnson, I don't see how Cameron is more responsible for the the Brexit cultists than the they are themselves.
posted by Dysk at 2:43 AM on November 14, 2023 [5 favorites]

I think he's worse because he personally opened the door to them and all the resulting chaos. Obviously the leavers are responsible for their actions, and I agree that they are (somehow) objectively worse in many respects - but they couldn't have done the damage they've done without him first letting them in through his arrogant incompetence in 2016. Handled differently they'd still just be yammering on the backbenches and I suspect getting less and less attention by the year as the generations that listen to them fade away.

But yes I suppose it's a chicken/egg question really and not worth arguing about. I think we agree that the lot of them are irredeemably awful and need getting rid of as soon as possible. Let's hope it's not going to be too much longer.
posted by tomsk at 3:08 AM on November 14, 2023 [9 favorites]

Cameron and the rest of the 2010 conservative front bench were strictly b-team material. The heavy hitters of the Tory prime had aged out or retired to the private sector, and the Cameron plan was basically magical thinking neoliberalism. After Dave left because of brexit, the c-team, quickly followed by the z-team, took over the party, as epitomised by Liz Truss and her friend Therese Coffey (previously minister for environment as mentioned above). Sunak’s leadership is about rehabilitating the Tory party for the election after next, although that’s maybe… 7 years away?

In a side note, my one friend who would admit to voting conservative moved to Japan because his wife couldn’t move to the UK. I’m not sure anything can save the Conservative Party, even if ‘call me Dave’ is there to prop up the front bench.
posted by The River Ivel at 3:10 AM on November 14, 2023 [6 favorites]

how bizarrely amateur the whole system is and how rapidly the seats at the cabinet table are churned over so nobody gets atop their brief

I had this thought as well. Even if we lived in something resembling a meritocracy and they were appointing competent subject matter experts into these positions, the musical chairs approach to appointments means they still wouldn't get anything of note done.

I've said it on this site and elsewhere before, politics seems like a lark for the majority of the Conservative party at the moment. They don't actually seem to have any real core beliefs or plan for the country in the long-term, just short-term ways to generate headlines, stay in the public eye, earn money for themselves and their mates, get out, and profit from the writing and speaking political punditry circuit.

I keep coming back to this quote from The Big Lebowski: "Nihilists! Fuck me. I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos." The Tories come in two flavours: competent evil or incompetent indifference.
posted by slimepuppy at 3:18 AM on November 14, 2023 [5 favorites]

It's not 'Call me Dave' anymore, it's Lord Cameron now(!)

The Tories come in two flavours: competent evil or incompetent indifference.

There's also incompetent evil (see: Suella Braverman).
posted by Dysk at 3:20 AM on November 14, 2023 [13 favorites]

As somebody who actually stood in opposition to Brexit, Cameron's position on that topic happens to put him on the opposite side from Sunak, Starmer and almost everybody else in a prominent position left within the Tories - but on the same same as most members of the public. Not that I attribute this to anything in terms of skillful strategy; but interesting to reflect on.
posted by rongorongo at 3:26 AM on November 14, 2023

tomsk: Things got worse after he resigned in large part because he immediately ran away from the mess he created, as you'd expect from a spoilt coward.

To be fair to Cameron, the plan was that his resignation would be followed by a three-month-long leadership contest, during which time Cameron would’ve prepared the ground for the incoming prime minister, and the incoming prime minister could prepare her positions, but then Andrea Leadsom stuck her foot in her mouth and had to concede the election to Theresa May, and thus she was thrust unprepared into a bad situation, without any clear guidelines set out.

That’s the one thing I’m prepared to give him, because I honestly think he had the worst effect of the whole lot of recent British prime ministers on the living standards of the people he was meant to lead. Austerity was a disaster. This isn’t just hindsight, but was widely predicted at the time. A lot of the disasters that have followed either stemmed from that idiotic policy, or were made worse. He was good at day-to-day politics, but in terms of policy he was a complete ignoramus, and never realized that himself.
posted by Kattullus at 4:42 AM on November 14, 2023 [10 favorites]

Well, it was back in 2018 he apparently said he was bored shitless and fancied a go at foreign secretary. Now certainly seems a good time to take it up as a fun little hobby.
posted by lucidium at 5:04 AM on November 14, 2023 [1 favorite]

Lord Cameron of Greensill.
posted by Grangousier at 5:10 AM on November 14, 2023 [6 favorites]

When Starmer gets in, now there's precedent for making Blair Minister of State for Security and you can all finally get those ID cards.
posted by Audreynachrome at 5:26 AM on November 14, 2023 [1 favorite]

Just another day on Normal Island.
posted by ellieBOA at 6:13 AM on November 14, 2023 [5 favorites]

Not British, so maybe this is the wrong way of looking at it, but I can understand the desire to label people like Cameron as "the worst" even though he didn't directly support Brexit.

It's my understanding that instead of standing firm on his own principals and accepting the electoral consequences for doing the right thing, he made the personally expedient decision to agree to the referendum in exchange for earning the support of the Brexiters. And then for equally expedient reasons, he stuck with his promise to honor the results of what was a completely non-binding resolution instead of personally accepting any responsibility that it was a terrible idea.

I don't see anything wrong with holding a special kind of contempt for people who invite the leopards into the building knowing that they want to eat everyone's faces. You can argue that people like Cameron didn't have anything to do with the resulting face-eating and didn't actually support it, but he's still the guy who unlocked the door and let them in. He knew he could have not invited the Leopards in or at the very least thrown himself at the Leopards to stop them, but he didn't. And that kind of makes him the worst.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:16 AM on November 14, 2023 [14 favorites]

See also: anyone who could have spoken out against Trump but chose not to in order to protect their political career.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:18 AM on November 14, 2023 [4 favorites]

David Cameron left a trail of destruction during his term (sorry for the Mirror link, I read this somewhere better and can’t find it).
posted by ellieBOA at 6:38 AM on November 14, 2023 [4 favorites]

He knew he could have not invited the Leopards in or at the very least thrown himself at the Leopards to stop them, but he didn't. And that kind of makes him the worst.

Agree that it's bad, still think the actual leopards are more responsible for the face-eating and thus worse. Cameron was unprincipled and selfish, sure, but no more so than any of his successors. I don't get the almost feeling of betrayal? He was always a Tory, did anyone ever expect him to do the right thing?
posted by Dysk at 6:54 AM on November 14, 2023 [1 favorite]

"a tantrum in Britain’s Celtic fringe"
GTF, Economist.
posted by aesop at 7:00 AM on November 14, 2023 [6 favorites]

...instead of standing firm on his own principals and accepting the electoral consequences for doing the right thing, he made the personally expedient decision...

He was always a Tory, did anyone ever expect him to do the right thing?

This discussion just reinforces my opinion that the true primogenitor of the rot, the most despicable beast of the Ninth Circle of British Politics, is that fucker I actually once voted for aka Nick Clegg.
posted by protorp at 8:20 AM on November 14, 2023 [12 favorites]

Can we call an emergency session of Mock the Week?
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 8:25 AM on November 14, 2023 [8 favorites]

This discussion just reinforces my opinion that the true primogenitor of the rot, the most despicable beast of the Ninth Circle of British Politics, is that fucker I actually once voted for aka Nick Clegg.

Don't feel bad. Everyone thought centre-left liberals meant a Labour coalition. But, scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 9:36 AM on November 14, 2023 [2 favorites]

But, scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds

Yes, we're the bad ones. Not the people doing actual fascism.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 10:15 AM on November 14, 2023 [6 favorites]

Just another day on Normal Island.

Cameron aside, can we talk about the fact that known idiot and disgraced MP Esther McVey is also back, reportedly as the "common sense tsar" in charge of a portfolio to tackle "woke" issues.

Leaving aside the issue that she's apparently going to be paid a ministerial salary for just going on GB News and spouting fash talking points, how did anyone manage to come up with the title "minister for common sense" in 2023 with a straight face?

What a shower of clowns.
posted by fight or flight at 10:38 AM on November 14, 2023 [13 favorites]

Munya Chawawa, a hilarious British Zimbabwean comedian and satirist, has a fantastic and funny video on this.
posted by ellieBOA at 11:28 AM on November 14, 2023 [4 favorites]

What a shower of clowns.

Clowns are at least trying to be funny. This lot are the septic wash being pumped into the rivers.

About the only good thing about this whole reshuffle is that at least the actual fascist Suella Braverman is no longer home secretary, and Jimmy Dimly as her replacement is too useless to actually do much damage in the year they have left. And Cameron as foreign sec is pretty meaningless in the end, nobody gives a shit about what the British government says any more.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 12:03 PM on November 14, 2023 [2 favorites]

But, scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds

> Yes, we're the bad ones. Not the people doing actual fascism.

I could be wrong, but I think this might be a case of the different UK/US meanings of "liberal".
posted by trig at 12:43 PM on November 14, 2023 [6 favorites]

Yes, we're the bad ones. Not the people doing actual fascism.

Clegg literally took one look at his manifesto after the election, threw it out, and aligned with the fucking Tories for a coalition enabling said Tories to gut the hell out of public services for a good half decade. They thought they'd be a "moderating influence" but any time Clegg tried to stand up and put on his big boy pants, Cameron basically dared him to call an election. Why? Because Cameron and Clegg both knew LDs would be wiped out at the next election. Why? Because what leftists voters they did have were (rightly) fucking outraged at enabling, of all things, a conservative government and made it quite clear they'd never vote LD again.

So not only did Clegg and his cohorts enable a conservative government, they kept said conservatives in power and let them wreck up the fucking joint out of sheer self-interest.

So yeah. Scratch a liberal, a fascist bleeds.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 1:10 PM on November 14, 2023 [14 favorites]

They thought they'd be a "moderating influence"

In my field of energy up to 2015 I'd have said they weren't moderating anything, but when the coalition ended following the 2015 election it became obvious that the LDs had been moderating when Cameron threw out all the 'green crap', including zero carbon regs for new buildings, energy efficiency programmes for new dwellings and effectively banning onshore wind turbine construction.
posted by biffa at 1:23 PM on November 14, 2023 [1 favorite]

From my perspective this thread is like arguing whether Nyarlathotep, Chthulu or one of the other elder gods is the nicer being. They all want to destroy the human race with the maximum amount of madness and suffering along the way. It's just variations on exactly how your soul will be sucked out of your ears and your body contorted in death.
posted by Vortisaur at 2:11 PM on November 14, 2023 [2 favorites]

They all want to destroy the human race with the maximum amount of madness and suffering along the way. It's just variations on exactly how your soul will be sucked out of your ears and your body contorted in death.

Well yeah, but this is the reality we've got, so this is what we're discussing.

The public Tory infighting this has kicked off is at least mildly amusing. Hopefully it keeps them occupied until the next election (though it often leads to hardening of stances on "soft" right wing issues, like immigrants and the queer/trans community, which I also suspect is going to be part of their election campaign.)
posted by Dysk at 2:38 PM on November 14, 2023

(thanks for the post, cendawanita, it's good to have somewhere to process the shenanigans)
posted by Hermione Dies at 2:54 PM on November 14, 2023 [2 favorites]

This thread needs more references to the time David Cameron put his dick in a pig.
posted by longtime_lurker at 3:12 PM on November 14, 2023 [6 favorites]

Now all we need is to put Tony Blair back in charge of the Middle East peace process again...Oh wait.
posted by srboisvert at 6:00 PM on November 14, 2023 [3 favorites]

Glad to see war criminals are still getting work under this government.
posted by fight or flight at 2:14 AM on November 15, 2023 [2 favorites]

> Ahh, the double-dipping strategy

It was bad for the pig. It will be bad for the country.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 2:59 PM on November 15, 2023 [4 favorites]

New Statesman: Sunak and Cameron should confront the Tory Jacobins:

What, I think, people mean when they talk of Cameron’s “centrism” is that he embodies something that was once largely uncontested – the Conservative Party’s attachment to established institutions and the rule of law. This is not centrism, but the minimum we should expect of our mainstream parties, much less the party of government. It says much of the Conservatives’ slow nervous breakdown that this should be considered the politics of moderation. But it is.

The lens of order vs disorder, institution vs anti-institution, system vs anti-system, conflict vs conciliation, is the lens through which to understand nearly all of the battles on the modern right and since Brexit. Anti-institutionalism, a belief that the established legal, cultural and political order is antithetical to conservative ends, has gripped not just the Conservative Party but the wider ecosystem of the right, including previously august right-of-centre newspapers, think tanks and commentators...

This fissure barely existed a decade ago. Today it bisects the right, in the UK, the US and beyond. This divide is the source of much of the disorder that has consumed Western democracies. The right constantly pushes the boundaries of our political institutions, culminating in the absurdity of Conservative MPs – self-professed guardians of law and order – calling for the government to defy not only convention but the rule of law itself...

The Republican Party has been lost to this malady. The best thing Sunak and Cameron could do is to prepare their faction for battle against these Tory Jacobins... More likely is that both Sunak and Cameron, as they have done before, cede ground to the right and hope the problem goes away.

Not directly relevant but interesting: Barrister and professor of law Philippe Sands on what the Supreme Court Rwanda decision means for the government.

Gavin Jacobson: What’s your reaction to the ruling?
Philippe Sands: Unanimous, clear, no hint of ambiguity, a decisive ruling that, on the facts of the case, confirms that to send people to Rwanda would violate the principle of “non-refoulement”, the obligation not to send someone to a place where they are likely to be subject to abusive behaviour.

What is interesting for me is that the judges base the conclusion on the principle of “non-refoulement” not on the European Convention on Human Rights, but on a range of international treaties as well as on customary international law. In other words, you cant blame the ECHR. A judgment that is crystal clear on the facts, leaving no wiggle room.

posted by TheophileEscargot at 5:23 AM on November 17, 2023 [2 favorites]

In other words, you cant blame the ECHR.

Well you can't blame them and have it actually be the case that it is the ECHR's fault, but you can certainly blame them and it may well stick with some of the voters, as we have now seen.
posted by biffa at 9:47 AM on November 18, 2023