Self selective assortative voting (with your feet)
November 29, 2023 7:28 AM Subscribe
The Red State Brain Drain Isn't Coming. It's Happening Right Now. [archive] - "As conservative states wage total culture war, college-educated workers—physicians, teachers, professors, and more—are packing their bags."
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"The danger is that if you take away the ability of FINRA and the SEC to efficiently remove misconduct and miscreants, you're going to have misconduct linger a lot longer," University of Nevada, Las Vegas securities law professor Benjamin Edwards said.The SEC Might Lose Its Courts [ungated] - "But if Jarkesy wins a total victory on the nondelegation argument, that's different. That could mean that all of the SEC's rulemaking (and every other regulatory agency's rulemaking) is suspect, that every policy decision that the SEC makes is unconstitutional. Much of US securities law would need to be thrown out, or perhaps rewritten by Congress if they ever got around to it. Stuff like the SEC's climate rules would be dead forever."
"Our financial system ultimately runs on trust, and you have to be able to trust that the people you're working with are operating honestly - and having a vigorous enforcement structure in place is pretty important," Edwards added.
The Supreme Court has several justices who would love to revive the nondelegation doctrine, but this is a somewhat silly case to do it in. But the Supreme Court does have several justices who would love to revive the nondelegation doctrine in a way that really would undermine most of securities regulation, and while this is a silly case to do it in, it is a case to do it in. You never know!The Case That Could Destroy the Government [archive] - "What was once a fringe legal theory now stands a real chance of being adopted by the Supreme Court."
The Red State Brain Drain Isn't Coming. It's Happening Right Now.
Yes, that's the whole point. If all but a few thousand die-hard Trumpists flee Idaho and Montana (or, increasingly, Florida and Missouri) as they become petty fiefdoms ruled by madmen, the GOP gets exactly what it wants, because even the dried-out husk of a state gets its constitutionally-allotted 3 electoral votes and 2 senators. That's enough to maintain a permanent majority. Then the wealthy few who remain in the Mad-Max-hellscape can just fly to the coasts for their medical care, fine dining, and museums. Hollowing out the middle of the country sounds a little extreme, but the modern GOP has repeatedly shown that it has very little problem letting huge swathes of the country descend into ruin if it means they get to sell shotguns and rowboats to the survivors.
posted by Mayor West at 7:48 AM on November 29, 2023 [79 favorites]
Yes, that's the whole point. If all but a few thousand die-hard Trumpists flee Idaho and Montana (or, increasingly, Florida and Missouri) as they become petty fiefdoms ruled by madmen, the GOP gets exactly what it wants, because even the dried-out husk of a state gets its constitutionally-allotted 3 electoral votes and 2 senators. That's enough to maintain a permanent majority. Then the wealthy few who remain in the Mad-Max-hellscape can just fly to the coasts for their medical care, fine dining, and museums. Hollowing out the middle of the country sounds a little extreme, but the modern GOP has repeatedly shown that it has very little problem letting huge swathes of the country descend into ruin if it means they get to sell shotguns and rowboats to the survivors.
posted by Mayor West at 7:48 AM on November 29, 2023 [79 favorites]
"Isn't coming"? It's been part of American history since there were cities! Young people leave to go where they're appreciated! Sometimes I want to just shake the Republican politicians in Mississippi and say: do you not see, do you not see what we are to everyone else? What you made this place, what your forefathers made of this place? But if they were capable of thinking that way or taking those thoughts seriously, they wouldn't be who they are. Those ideas slide off the armor of bad second-hand theology and "business-friendly" policies.
Oddly enough, one of the best books I've read discussing it is Wisconsin Death Trip, although that's not what the book is known for.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:48 AM on November 29, 2023 [11 favorites]
Oddly enough, one of the best books I've read discussing it is Wisconsin Death Trip, although that's not what the book is known for.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:48 AM on November 29, 2023 [11 favorites]
My spouse and I are both PhD academics. After five years of trying to like it or make peace with the situation in TX, we gave up and fled, one of us leaving an otherwise nice tenure track job.
Perfect 10/10, highly recommended, would flee TX again!
posted by SaltySalticid at 7:56 AM on November 29, 2023 [67 favorites]
Perfect 10/10, highly recommended, would flee TX again!
posted by SaltySalticid at 7:56 AM on November 29, 2023 [67 favorites]
Makes sense: Why the fuck would an academic or doctor go near Florida*, or if they are stuck there already actively be plotting escape?
I’m not sure that the “make the sacrifice to move/stay there to make it a purple state” argument really holds given that once Republicans are entrenched they get rid of every opportunity to removing them by democratic process.
* or Texas. Or one of the others people don’t bother talking about because they don’t have the same cultural/economic impact.
posted by Artw at 7:57 AM on November 29, 2023 [8 favorites]
I’m not sure that the “make the sacrifice to move/stay there to make it a purple state” argument really holds given that once Republicans are entrenched they get rid of every opportunity to removing them by democratic process.
* or Texas. Or one of the others people don’t bother talking about because they don’t have the same cultural/economic impact.
posted by Artw at 7:57 AM on November 29, 2023 [8 favorites]
If Trump winds up in the Oval Office again there won't be anywhere safe to flee to, but for now...
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:00 AM on November 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:00 AM on November 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
They're doing the same thing in Congress; i.e. behaving so off-putting that normal, decent people will not want to serve.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 8:01 AM on November 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by 1970s Antihero at 8:01 AM on November 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
I'm sure Kliuless has this, but I'd like to hear more about corporate enablers.
Unless you really want a complete dissolution to a dollar store and payday economy, what are these companies thinking? They clearly have the leverage. They're paying for all of this politics.
The whole post-Civil Rights political strategy was a concerted long-term play, so it's not like they don't do planning. Is it just to immolate and chattel-ize the countryside and milk the blue urban areas?
Eventually the polity will screw up the economics and they don't make quarterly earnings. Or is it because of climate they're already in last-days-of-Bourbons?
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 8:05 AM on November 29, 2023 [4 favorites]
Unless you really want a complete dissolution to a dollar store and payday economy, what are these companies thinking? They clearly have the leverage. They're paying for all of this politics.
The whole post-Civil Rights political strategy was a concerted long-term play, so it's not like they don't do planning. Is it just to immolate and chattel-ize the countryside and milk the blue urban areas?
Eventually the polity will screw up the economics and they don't make quarterly earnings. Or is it because of climate they're already in last-days-of-Bourbons?
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 8:05 AM on November 29, 2023 [4 favorites]
“Noam Chomsky: Republican Party is the most dangerous organisation in human history,” Maya Oppenheim, The Independent, 27 April 2017
posted by ob1quixote at 8:06 AM on November 29, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by ob1quixote at 8:06 AM on November 29, 2023 [6 favorites]
"I Will Make America Great Again for Young People," Donald J. Trump, Newsweek, 29 November 2023
posted by box at 8:11 AM on November 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by box at 8:11 AM on November 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
bro just one more term bro, bro I swear just one more term and i'll fix the country bro
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:13 AM on November 29, 2023 [21 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:13 AM on November 29, 2023 [21 favorites]
At this point, linking directly to anything said/written by Trump is akin to linking directly to any of the known white supremacist websites. At least give an archive link instead.
posted by eviemath at 8:16 AM on November 29, 2023 [40 favorites]
posted by eviemath at 8:16 AM on November 29, 2023 [40 favorites]
Unless you really want a complete dissolution to a dollar store and payday economy, what are these companies thinking? They clearly have the leverage. They're paying for all of this politics.
Corporate America has always wanted deregulation and they absolutely built that monster, but that's the danger of getting monsters to do your bidding: they won't stop when you tell them to. Now that they're moving past tearing down "regulations which constrain business" into "regulations which give the public confidence in the idea of businesses at all" I imagine there's a lot of concern among the plutocratic class about how the hell not to lose it all, but, as I said, monsters don't stop when you ask.
Seriously, gutting the SEC entirely will completely fuck every single publicly traded entity in the US. They know this. They liked a mildly ineffectual SEC, but a public ruling that the SEC has no actual power is gonna hurt them more than it hurts us.
posted by jackbishop at 8:25 AM on November 29, 2023 [6 favorites]
Corporate America has always wanted deregulation and they absolutely built that monster, but that's the danger of getting monsters to do your bidding: they won't stop when you tell them to. Now that they're moving past tearing down "regulations which constrain business" into "regulations which give the public confidence in the idea of businesses at all" I imagine there's a lot of concern among the plutocratic class about how the hell not to lose it all, but, as I said, monsters don't stop when you ask.
Seriously, gutting the SEC entirely will completely fuck every single publicly traded entity in the US. They know this. They liked a mildly ineffectual SEC, but a public ruling that the SEC has no actual power is gonna hurt them more than it hurts us.
posted by jackbishop at 8:25 AM on November 29, 2023 [6 favorites]
The best part is this is exactly what Red States want. The Right has been incredibly successful at getting people to vote against their best interests, this is just more of the same.
posted by tommasz at 8:29 AM on November 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by tommasz at 8:29 AM on November 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
> because even the dried-out husk of a state gets its constitutionally-allotted 3 electoral votes and 2 senators.
Yep, this is the problem that arises when everyone wants to congregate on the coasts, and/or in Richard Florida's superstar cities. Not to mention that this clustering also drives housing costs way up in those areas.
posted by smcdow at 8:44 AM on November 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yep, this is the problem that arises when everyone wants to congregate on the coasts, and/or in Richard Florida's superstar cities. Not to mention that this clustering also drives housing costs way up in those areas.
posted by smcdow at 8:44 AM on November 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
Unless you really want a complete dissolution to a dollar store and payday economy, what are these companies thinking? They clearly have the leverage. They're paying for all of this politics.
All ownership of everything is getting condensed down to a few very evil individuals and they are absolutely fine with grinding everyone else up and using them for fertilizer.
posted by Artw at 9:13 AM on November 29, 2023 [17 favorites]
All ownership of everything is getting condensed down to a few very evil individuals and they are absolutely fine with grinding everyone else up and using them for fertilizer.
posted by Artw at 9:13 AM on November 29, 2023 [17 favorites]
A consequence to consider:
A professor colleague of mine went to a small academic conference this fall in a blue state. The conference is nominally international, but what that really that means is people from the US plus a few Canadians. The Executive Board of the association holding the conference had planned to update it's (very out of date) DEI statement during the conference.
So far, so non-controversial.
Except some faculty members of the board work in universities that are in blue states that now censor what their employees can say about race. These board members pointed out that, as conditions of their employment -- which as academics, includes their work on things like academic association boards and conference organizing committees -- they are explicitly barred from endorsing DEI statements of any kind.
In fact, because faculty from the states are on the board of these organizations, and there are other faculty/students who are members the organization, it might be necessary to remove all existing DEI statements. No matter that the rules only apply to faculty in one state: for those faculty to be able to participate, the censorship has to apply to the whole organization.
As you can imagine, all hell broke loose. The result in this case was that this small nominally international academic association did not update it's DEI statement this year. But I'm now wondering, have people heard of other academic organizations facing this problem too? Because it seems like this is an unintended consequence that perhaps people should have seen coming and prepared for.
I wonder if the whole Federalism thing is going to start looking a little less attractive soon.
posted by EllaEm at 9:20 AM on November 29, 2023 [20 favorites]
A professor colleague of mine went to a small academic conference this fall in a blue state. The conference is nominally international, but what that really that means is people from the US plus a few Canadians. The Executive Board of the association holding the conference had planned to update it's (very out of date) DEI statement during the conference.
So far, so non-controversial.
Except some faculty members of the board work in universities that are in blue states that now censor what their employees can say about race. These board members pointed out that, as conditions of their employment -- which as academics, includes their work on things like academic association boards and conference organizing committees -- they are explicitly barred from endorsing DEI statements of any kind.
In fact, because faculty from the states are on the board of these organizations, and there are other faculty/students who are members the organization, it might be necessary to remove all existing DEI statements. No matter that the rules only apply to faculty in one state: for those faculty to be able to participate, the censorship has to apply to the whole organization.
As you can imagine, all hell broke loose. The result in this case was that this small nominally international academic association did not update it's DEI statement this year. But I'm now wondering, have people heard of other academic organizations facing this problem too? Because it seems like this is an unintended consequence that perhaps people should have seen coming and prepared for.
I wonder if the whole Federalism thing is going to start looking a little less attractive soon.
posted by EllaEm at 9:20 AM on November 29, 2023 [20 favorites]
Yep, this is the problem that arises when everyone wants to congregate on the coasts, and/or in Richard Florida's superstar cities.
It's not so much "wants to congregate" as "can't live a mentally healthy lifestyle anywhere else". 20 years ago, my wife and I took well-paying jobs in small-town Virginia—and it wasn't even that small a town, 100k or so—and within literally six months, we were willing to take pay cuts to move back to the city. We ended up staying three years for various reasons, but it was a complete nightmare. People straight-up told us we'd get nowhere unless we belonged to one of two churches. The second question anyone would ask us after "what's your name?" was "where do you worship?" and when we said we didn't, they'd literally turn their backs. Everything was of terrible quality, from the work of handypeople to the restaurant choices. There was another couple in the same boat, and we'd make a point of going to whatever new restaurant opened, because we knew it would close in three months because everyone preferred Old Country Buffet. And we're white, and look like it's at least possible that we're not socialists.
After awhile, you're just like fuck it, I'm not martyring myself to make change. These people like it dumb, mean and full of Jeezus, and we'll leave them to it, high rents be damned.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 9:33 AM on November 29, 2023 [61 favorites]
It's not so much "wants to congregate" as "can't live a mentally healthy lifestyle anywhere else". 20 years ago, my wife and I took well-paying jobs in small-town Virginia—and it wasn't even that small a town, 100k or so—and within literally six months, we were willing to take pay cuts to move back to the city. We ended up staying three years for various reasons, but it was a complete nightmare. People straight-up told us we'd get nowhere unless we belonged to one of two churches. The second question anyone would ask us after "what's your name?" was "where do you worship?" and when we said we didn't, they'd literally turn their backs. Everything was of terrible quality, from the work of handypeople to the restaurant choices. There was another couple in the same boat, and we'd make a point of going to whatever new restaurant opened, because we knew it would close in three months because everyone preferred Old Country Buffet. And we're white, and look like it's at least possible that we're not socialists.
After awhile, you're just like fuck it, I'm not martyring myself to make change. These people like it dumb, mean and full of Jeezus, and we'll leave them to it, high rents be damned.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 9:33 AM on November 29, 2023 [61 favorites]
One academia-world consequence of homophobic, transphobic state legislatures and governors is that faculty in universities in these states are less likely to host the annual conferences. The State of California recently (Sept 2023) rescinded the travel ban on state funds from being used on travel to states such as Florida (and hence faculty/students not being able to get university funding to go to these conferences) but I'm not sure if that will change the calculus enough.
Also, EllaEm, I am agog re the DEI statement.
posted by spamandkimchi at 9:34 AM on November 29, 2023 [7 favorites]
Also, EllaEm, I am agog re the DEI statement.
posted by spamandkimchi at 9:34 AM on November 29, 2023 [7 favorites]
EllaEm: some faculty members of the board work in universities that are in blue states that now censor what their employees can say about race... they are explicitly barred from endorsing DEI statements of any kind.
Am I misreading this or are these actually faculty members from red states? I'd expect blue states to be generally okay with DEI statements.
posted by fader at 9:34 AM on November 29, 2023 [10 favorites]
Am I misreading this or are these actually faculty members from red states? I'd expect blue states to be generally okay with DEI statements.
posted by fader at 9:34 AM on November 29, 2023 [10 favorites]
"Isn't coming"? It's been part of American history since there were cities!
That's exactly what they meant by "isn't coming."
Why the fuck would an academic or doctor go near Florida*
If you're male, straight, and in a field that doesn't teach courses directly affected by the culture-war nonsense, you might simply enough not care. UF and FSU pay fine, the weather's warm if you like that, and if your wife/daughter/whatever needs reproductive care you can just fly somewhere else for it if you decide you kinda-sorta care about her. "They came for foo and I didn't speak out..." but these jackasses really aren't coming for civil engineering or math except to tell them they're not bound by DEI stuff.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:40 AM on November 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
That's exactly what they meant by "isn't coming."
Why the fuck would an academic or doctor go near Florida*
If you're male, straight, and in a field that doesn't teach courses directly affected by the culture-war nonsense, you might simply enough not care. UF and FSU pay fine, the weather's warm if you like that, and if your wife/daughter/whatever needs reproductive care you can just fly somewhere else for it if you decide you kinda-sorta care about her. "They came for foo and I didn't speak out..." but these jackasses really aren't coming for civil engineering or math except to tell them they're not bound by DEI stuff.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:40 AM on November 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
These board members pointed out that, as conditions of their employment -- which as academics, includes their work on things like academic association boards and conference organizing committees -- they are explicitly barred from endorsing DEI statements of any kind.
This isn't intended as a slight against those board members, but I think it's particularly insidious how these policies end up getting enforced by the very people they're oppressing by making them personally accountable for the speech of institutions. The lawmakers who crafted those regulations probably have no idea this particular conference exists and given different circumstances it's doubtful the DEI policy would have ever been brought to their attention. But because they've deliberately put someone's livelihood on the line, they have lots of (unwilling) foot soldiers who are ready to enforce these policies in contexts they never even thought of.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:42 AM on November 29, 2023 [18 favorites]
This isn't intended as a slight against those board members, but I think it's particularly insidious how these policies end up getting enforced by the very people they're oppressing by making them personally accountable for the speech of institutions. The lawmakers who crafted those regulations probably have no idea this particular conference exists and given different circumstances it's doubtful the DEI policy would have ever been brought to their attention. But because they've deliberately put someone's livelihood on the line, they have lots of (unwilling) foot soldiers who are ready to enforce these policies in contexts they never even thought of.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:42 AM on November 29, 2023 [18 favorites]
I moved a couple months ago from a red state to a blue one and I am so much happier. I didn't realize just how much of my brain power was taken up by worry about what the dumbass legislators were going to do next until I had been here long enough for it to quiet down. Life's not perfect of course, but there's actually good stuff in the world now! I have enough attention span to read books again! Have you seen New England in the fall? The trees are gorgeous and the temperatures are perfect! 10/10 highly recommend leaving the race to the bottom if you can. Don't let anyone guilt you into staying somewhere that's bad for you.
posted by Is It Over Yet? at 9:45 AM on November 29, 2023 [19 favorites]
posted by Is It Over Yet? at 9:45 AM on November 29, 2023 [19 favorites]
we were in a very red part of CA for the holiday weekend and some friends went air-softing (?). turned out there were a bunch of MAGAts there with obnoxious, trolly t-shirts on. my friends found it challenging to stay away and not say anything. it definitely impacted their experience. (we are all Bay Area lefties of some stripe or other)
even such a small and insignificant thing as an afternoon of sports can be diminished by a hostile environment :(
posted by supermedusa at 9:54 AM on November 29, 2023 [10 favorites]
even such a small and insignificant thing as an afternoon of sports can be diminished by a hostile environment :(
posted by supermedusa at 9:54 AM on November 29, 2023 [10 favorites]
Moving isn’t easy. I know someone who bought a house in Florida while finishing their PHD and now feels stuck between student loan and mortgage debt. But they say the political climate and public discourse have really declined over the last decade.
Also I have met a few people in California who really want to move to Texas because right wing media has convinced them in is paradise compared to CA, despite the fact the the middle class actually pays more in taxes and the schools are worse in Texas. But they could sell their 1200 sq ft house in CA and pay a 3,000 sq ft one in Texas for the same price.
I blame the media for driven the narratives about these places
posted by CostcoCultist at 9:57 AM on November 29, 2023 [8 favorites]
Also I have met a few people in California who really want to move to Texas because right wing media has convinced them in is paradise compared to CA, despite the fact the the middle class actually pays more in taxes and the schools are worse in Texas. But they could sell their 1200 sq ft house in CA and pay a 3,000 sq ft one in Texas for the same price.
I blame the media for driven the narratives about these places
posted by CostcoCultist at 9:57 AM on November 29, 2023 [8 favorites]
Eventually the polity will screw up the economics and they don't make quarterly earnings.
Not only will we bail out the South and other secessionist states, we are already subsidizing them.
And by we, I mean specifically people on the left and center of the political spectrum, many of whom still believe Fascist Republicans in these areas play by the rules. The rest of us are coerced into subsidizing them with our taxes.
Once TFG or another Fascist Republican takes the White House, it won't really matter, anyway. Nowhere will be safe.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:22 AM on November 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
Not only will we bail out the South and other secessionist states, we are already subsidizing them.
And by we, I mean specifically people on the left and center of the political spectrum, many of whom still believe Fascist Republicans in these areas play by the rules. The rest of us are coerced into subsidizing them with our taxes.
Once TFG or another Fascist Republican takes the White House, it won't really matter, anyway. Nowhere will be safe.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:22 AM on November 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
I just read the article and was struck by it, went to share whatever I was thinking then got thwacked across the face by the 2x4 soaked in motor oil of the More Inside. Comprehensive, detailed oh the implications. Man, kliuless, you have set the new hella post standard. The mind reels, the intellect stands abashed etc. etc.
But oh, there is so much to wade through here.
Also it was good to be reminded of
posted by y2karl at 10:31 AM on November 29, 2023 [8 favorites]
But oh, there is so much to wade through here.
Also it was good to be reminded of
...former Representative Barney Frank’s memorable complaint that for conservatives “life begins at conception and ends at birth.”
posted by y2karl at 10:31 AM on November 29, 2023 [8 favorites]
So Trump wants to be Duterte if he's re-elected?
posted by subdee at 10:31 AM on November 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by subdee at 10:31 AM on November 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
> people in California who really want to move to Texas because right wing media has convinced them in is paradise compared to CA
Alas. It's such a disaster. The Texas I grew up in during the 1960s and 1970s is gone forever.
I've got really deep roots here in Texas, and while there's no denying that always been a conservative kind of place, there used to be an inkling of tolerance, if not open-mindedness (especially if it was associated with business and commerce). But that has utterly disappeared over the last 25 years because of these newcomers.
Now it''s nothing short of bat-shit crazy. You are completely correct that the media is driving this particular migration. I hate it.
I'm retiring very soon, so this maybe could be an appropriate time to abscond. I'm very actively looking around for a little piece of land (>50 acres) with a house and big workshop to move to and set up shop. (Aside: I'm so ready to get back to the land. I'm done with city living forever.)
Surprisingly to me, once you get away from urban centers the prices for such properties are pretty comparable in TX and CA -- and really, kind of everywhere (at least according to Zillow). I, unfortunately, hate the cold with the passion of a thousand frozen suns, which limits my choices. (Another aside: What's the deal with Southern Colorado? There are tons of acreage properties for sale up there that are in my opinion extremely inexpensive, like too inexpensive, like there's gotta be a catch, but I can't figure out what it is).
My spouse is pushing for Costa Rica. I'm pushing for Australia. We'll probably end up somewhere around Kerrville.
posted by smcdow at 10:32 AM on November 29, 2023 [6 favorites]
Alas. It's such a disaster. The Texas I grew up in during the 1960s and 1970s is gone forever.
I've got really deep roots here in Texas, and while there's no denying that always been a conservative kind of place, there used to be an inkling of tolerance, if not open-mindedness (especially if it was associated with business and commerce). But that has utterly disappeared over the last 25 years because of these newcomers.
Now it''s nothing short of bat-shit crazy. You are completely correct that the media is driving this particular migration. I hate it.
I'm retiring very soon, so this maybe could be an appropriate time to abscond. I'm very actively looking around for a little piece of land (>50 acres) with a house and big workshop to move to and set up shop. (Aside: I'm so ready to get back to the land. I'm done with city living forever.)
Surprisingly to me, once you get away from urban centers the prices for such properties are pretty comparable in TX and CA -- and really, kind of everywhere (at least according to Zillow). I, unfortunately, hate the cold with the passion of a thousand frozen suns, which limits my choices. (Another aside: What's the deal with Southern Colorado? There are tons of acreage properties for sale up there that are in my opinion extremely inexpensive, like too inexpensive, like there's gotta be a catch, but I can't figure out what it is).
My spouse is pushing for Costa Rica. I'm pushing for Australia. We'll probably end up somewhere around Kerrville.
posted by smcdow at 10:32 AM on November 29, 2023 [6 favorites]
I'm not moving. My students can't move, and they need someone to fight for them. I'm cis, het, white, nominally Christian, and rapidly approaching menopause. I will stay and keep fighting because I think this beautiful place and the 50.5% of voters (probably like 75% of people when you count all the disinfranchised) who are not monsters are worth fighting for.
posted by hydropsyche at 10:38 AM on November 29, 2023 [35 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 10:38 AM on November 29, 2023 [35 favorites]
But I'm now wondering, have people heard of other academic organizations facing this problem too?
I was at a higher ed conference in Wisconsin where there was a DEI presentation but there was a statement that the presenter had had to check state laws first. And there was a lot of talk - and emotion - about comms (advancement and other) not being allowed to say things - both particular language (like Latinx in Arkansas) but a lot related to the affirmative action ban.
There was also a lot of discussion around gaps between donors (who now felt empowered to say out loud things like “I don’t want this money going to X group”) and student bodies. Because schools have been achieving success in reaching underrepresented groups. “Oil money vs. Current students’ values” was how it was put.
People - including southern white men - were visibly upset and venting about how hard it is for them to advocate DEI and progressive values. It was sobering to hear, and touching to also hear comms people strategizing with each other.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:50 AM on November 29, 2023 [17 favorites]
I was at a higher ed conference in Wisconsin where there was a DEI presentation but there was a statement that the presenter had had to check state laws first. And there was a lot of talk - and emotion - about comms (advancement and other) not being allowed to say things - both particular language (like Latinx in Arkansas) but a lot related to the affirmative action ban.
There was also a lot of discussion around gaps between donors (who now felt empowered to say out loud things like “I don’t want this money going to X group”) and student bodies. Because schools have been achieving success in reaching underrepresented groups. “Oil money vs. Current students’ values” was how it was put.
People - including southern white men - were visibly upset and venting about how hard it is for them to advocate DEI and progressive values. It was sobering to hear, and touching to also hear comms people strategizing with each other.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:50 AM on November 29, 2023 [17 favorites]
Why the fuck would an academic or doctor go near Florida*
For academics at least, job openings can be pretty narrowly constrained. If you're say a cognitive neuroscientist specializing in using certain kinds of research hardware to answer questions in a particular part of the subject domain you might be looking at 5 job openings per year in the world that you are an ideal candidate for. Then there is the competition....
For most academics you go where you can you get a job if you are lucky enough to get one.
posted by srboisvert at 11:21 AM on November 29, 2023 [11 favorites]
For academics at least, job openings can be pretty narrowly constrained. If you're say a cognitive neuroscientist specializing in using certain kinds of research hardware to answer questions in a particular part of the subject domain you might be looking at 5 job openings per year in the world that you are an ideal candidate for. Then there is the competition....
For most academics you go where you can you get a job if you are lucky enough to get one.
posted by srboisvert at 11:21 AM on November 29, 2023 [11 favorites]
If they're leaving conservative states, I hope they're moving to swing states.
posted by pracowity at 11:23 AM on November 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by pracowity at 11:23 AM on November 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
I just talked to an old friend who lives in Texas. He and his husband are retired but find the far right bias in the state becoming over-bearing. So it's not just young professionals looking at getting out. The liberal side of my family is making a steady migration from red North Dakota to blue Minnesota. My wife and I will be gone from this red nightmare in another year or two, if everything works out.
posted by Ber at 11:26 AM on November 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Ber at 11:26 AM on November 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
My wife and I moved from Texas to North Carolina in 2017 because she was matched to residency here. We love the extremely blue city we live in, but the state government has been steadily going off the rails for years. We talk about leaving sometimes, but we absolutely love our community. If we ever have a child, the schools here are great too. We're just hoping the new Democratic party chair, a 25-year-old woman who was elected to chair largely because the rest of the party realized what the old guard was doing wasn't working, keeps pulling off wins. But the party switching and gerrymandering aren't helping.
posted by TheKaijuCommuter at 11:33 AM on November 29, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by TheKaijuCommuter at 11:33 AM on November 29, 2023 [7 favorites]
Fader, gah yes you are right! That's a typo on my part! I don't know if it's fixable at this point...
The faculty from places like Florida were the ones who had to censor themselves, and by extension the entire organization.
posted by EllaEm at 11:36 AM on November 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
The faculty from places like Florida were the ones who had to censor themselves, and by extension the entire organization.
posted by EllaEm at 11:36 AM on November 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
It's not so much "wants to congregate" as "can't live a mentally healthy lifestyle anywhere else". 20 years ago, my wife and I took well-paying jobs in small-town Virginia—and it wasn't even that small a town, 100k or so—and within literally six months, we were willing to take pay cuts to move back to the city. We ended up staying three years for various reasons, but it was a complete nightmare. People straight-up told us we'd get nowhere unless we belonged to one of two churches. The second question anyone would ask us after "what's your name?" was "where do you worship?" and when we said we didn't, they'd literally turn their backs.
This exact same experience happened a few years back to an academic friend of mine who got a postdoc in a lovely Liberal Arts college in rural Michigan... Except she was Jewish. They stuck it out for the postdoc but it was miserably lonely. Constant microaggressions.
(Interestingly, I did an archival research project a while back on what happened to Jewish academic refugees who came to the US from Europe in the 1930s and 40s and found temporary positions in US colleges and universities. Most of them went to colleges outside the major cities, and most of them were utterly miserable for exactly the same reason my friend was. Except unlike my friend the refugees were stuck there and had to be grateful for it.)
posted by EllaEm at 11:50 AM on November 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
This exact same experience happened a few years back to an academic friend of mine who got a postdoc in a lovely Liberal Arts college in rural Michigan... Except she was Jewish. They stuck it out for the postdoc but it was miserably lonely. Constant microaggressions.
(Interestingly, I did an archival research project a while back on what happened to Jewish academic refugees who came to the US from Europe in the 1930s and 40s and found temporary positions in US colleges and universities. Most of them went to colleges outside the major cities, and most of them were utterly miserable for exactly the same reason my friend was. Except unlike my friend the refugees were stuck there and had to be grateful for it.)
posted by EllaEm at 11:50 AM on November 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
I have roots in Texas back to before it was part of the US. I got out as fast as I could on graduating high school. Came back for grad school just at the tail end of "Slacker" Austin (hi, smcdow!).
Texas has a long historical thread that sometimes leans one way into a kind of benevolent cultural anarchism, a la Willie Nelson, Butthole Surfers, Big Boys, and "keeping Austin weird"; and sometimes leans the other way into a tight-assed authoritarian libertarianism (yes I appreciate the contradiction but that's the best way I can describe it). I think it's all part of the same vibe, just tuned in differently.
I thought the politics were ugly when I left for good in 2007! Now those Rick Perry days seem sweetly innocuous.
Absolutely no way in hell would I ever go back.
posted by bgribble at 11:50 AM on November 29, 2023 [11 favorites]
Texas has a long historical thread that sometimes leans one way into a kind of benevolent cultural anarchism, a la Willie Nelson, Butthole Surfers, Big Boys, and "keeping Austin weird"; and sometimes leans the other way into a tight-assed authoritarian libertarianism (yes I appreciate the contradiction but that's the best way I can describe it). I think it's all part of the same vibe, just tuned in differently.
I thought the politics were ugly when I left for good in 2007! Now those Rick Perry days seem sweetly innocuous.
Absolutely no way in hell would I ever go back.
posted by bgribble at 11:50 AM on November 29, 2023 [11 favorites]
Now it''s nothing short of bat-shit crazy. You are completely correct that the media is driving this particular migration. I hate it.
A Floridian friend of mine was talking about how much worse Florida is getting because people are moving there to be in the DeSantis state, making things worse and worse as it goes. Sounds like an absolute horror show.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:54 AM on November 29, 2023 [8 favorites]
A Floridian friend of mine was talking about how much worse Florida is getting because people are moving there to be in the DeSantis state, making things worse and worse as it goes. Sounds like an absolute horror show.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:54 AM on November 29, 2023 [8 favorites]
Another wrinkle to this is that the enrollment cliff that will start in 2024 is actually projected to impact certain red states the least. Enrollment is expected to increase in Idaho, Montana, Utah, etc.
posted by HotToddy at 12:10 PM on November 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by HotToddy at 12:10 PM on November 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
The second question anyone would ask us after "what's your name?" was "where do you worship?"
Just tell them you're going to worship at home until you get the mosque built.
posted by pracowity at 12:34 PM on November 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
Just tell them you're going to worship at home until you get the mosque built.
posted by pracowity at 12:34 PM on November 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
I went to Rice, graduated in 1989 and got my MA in 1992. In the last ten years, a lot of my friends have left Texas (Houston in particular). Some of it is climate change, like getting your house flooded a few times by hurricanes, usually getting it cleaned up and fixed just before the next one, but the political climate is an issue. Not all of my friends are going to Blue states, but a lot of them are getting out of the south. And this is the old folks, mostly cis-het white people, pushing toward retirement, empty nesters, and often past needing abortion care. Younger friends who are queer (not just trans folks either) and parents with queer and trans kids are also bailing out at high speed.
We are here for family reasons but honestly if it weren't for family obligations, I think we'd be getting the hell out of Texas too. And we're in Dallas (not the burbs, the city) where it's reasonably safely blue and people don't freak out if you don't have the right answer to "where is your church home?". We left Texas for a job 20 years ago and came back, but if we have to go again, we'd really have to think about whether or not to return.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 12:41 PM on November 29, 2023 [4 favorites]
We are here for family reasons but honestly if it weren't for family obligations, I think we'd be getting the hell out of Texas too. And we're in Dallas (not the burbs, the city) where it's reasonably safely blue and people don't freak out if you don't have the right answer to "where is your church home?". We left Texas for a job 20 years ago and came back, but if we have to go again, we'd really have to think about whether or not to return.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 12:41 PM on November 29, 2023 [4 favorites]
If all but a few thousand die-hard Trumpists flee Idaho and Montana (or, increasingly, Florida and Missouri) as they become petty fiefdoms ruled by madmen, the GOP gets exactly what it wants, because even the dried-out husk of a state gets its constitutionally-allotted 3 electoral votes and 2 senators. That's enough to maintain a permanent majority.
Let's dial down the doom. This scenario would actually lead to red states losing House seats, and some would lose electoral college votes as well. That doesn't add up to them maintaining a permanent majority.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 12:45 PM on November 29, 2023 [8 favorites]
Let's dial down the doom. This scenario would actually lead to red states losing House seats, and some would lose electoral college votes as well. That doesn't add up to them maintaining a permanent majority.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 12:45 PM on November 29, 2023 [8 favorites]
SW Florida here, observations below. First, I just want to bump one of kliuless's links (gift WashPost link, same content.) in case you missed it in that group.
I'd drafted a really long comment that just reiterates stuff that most of you know, about the rightward swing here that has flipped school boards and cowed elected officials into approving BS laws. Places like Tampa are resisting DeSantis's push, but other cities that used to be purple and balanced are swinging right even without interference from the governor.
Anyway, what I wanted to post about was another sort of brain drain. My twin sons graduate this year from a public high school that looks and acts more like a New England prep school. And while probably 50% of these bright, ambitious young people will attend Florida colleges, there's a huge swath of them (including my boys) that flat-out refused to consider a Florida college, or any college in a red state.
They see what's happening, seeing women's rights stripped away, seeing their LGBTQ friends demonized, seeing places awash in guns and gun culture, and they want no part of it. One of my sons looked at Rice (hi, gentlyepigrams!) and really liked it, but ruled it out for location. The other was impressed with Oberlin and Kenyon, but had the same response. I know college can be a bubble, insulating you from state policies, but for them it's about taking some kind of stand.
I'm sure that for every kid like mine, there are more who feel just as strongly that state politics don't matter at all. And the colleges I mentioned are surely not hurting for applicants, at least for now. But I do wonder about down the road.
posted by martin q blank at 1:14 PM on November 29, 2023 [10 favorites]
I'd drafted a really long comment that just reiterates stuff that most of you know, about the rightward swing here that has flipped school boards and cowed elected officials into approving BS laws. Places like Tampa are resisting DeSantis's push, but other cities that used to be purple and balanced are swinging right even without interference from the governor.
Anyway, what I wanted to post about was another sort of brain drain. My twin sons graduate this year from a public high school that looks and acts more like a New England prep school. And while probably 50% of these bright, ambitious young people will attend Florida colleges, there's a huge swath of them (including my boys) that flat-out refused to consider a Florida college, or any college in a red state.
They see what's happening, seeing women's rights stripped away, seeing their LGBTQ friends demonized, seeing places awash in guns and gun culture, and they want no part of it. One of my sons looked at Rice (hi, gentlyepigrams!) and really liked it, but ruled it out for location. The other was impressed with Oberlin and Kenyon, but had the same response. I know college can be a bubble, insulating you from state policies, but for them it's about taking some kind of stand.
I'm sure that for every kid like mine, there are more who feel just as strongly that state politics don't matter at all. And the colleges I mentioned are surely not hurting for applicants, at least for now. But I do wonder about down the road.
posted by martin q blank at 1:14 PM on November 29, 2023 [10 favorites]
Thank you for the big post, kliuless.
I wanted to point out the one about Arizona State University becoming a chip center.
posted by doctornemo at 1:27 PM on November 29, 2023
I wanted to point out the one about Arizona State University becoming a chip center.
posted by doctornemo at 1:27 PM on November 29, 2023
The best thing I ever did was leave Florida.
posted by mike3k at 1:32 PM on November 29, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by mike3k at 1:32 PM on November 29, 2023 [6 favorites]
Antagonisms flare as red states try to dictate how blue cities are run - "Critics of state preemption say it and other actions are increasingly being used by Republicans in punitive, even racist ways to limit local governance."
Not mentioned in the article, but Nashville is dealing with this right now. We have a supermajority Republican state government with a default-hostile stance towards blue-city Nashville: they outlawed municipal mask mandates; tried to cut Metro Nashville Council in half (this was put off until 2027 but is still apparently happening, which will have the effect of giving the white parts of the city greater control); limited us using proceeds from Music City Center for anything other than paying off debt, which is slowing down our ability to rebuild the area that was bombed on Christmas 2020; trying to take over the Metropolitan Nashville Airport Authority and the sports authority; disbanded police oversight boards; prevented us from having supermajority vote requirements, which has the effect of lowering from 27 to 21 the votes necessary to approve things like the NASCAR racetrack facility (the residents have to deal with the noise and pollution, with most of the attendees coming from out of town); and perhaps worst, making it impossible to require new housing developments to include affordable housing.
It's a mess.
posted by joannemerriam at 1:43 PM on November 29, 2023 [15 favorites]
Not mentioned in the article, but Nashville is dealing with this right now. We have a supermajority Republican state government with a default-hostile stance towards blue-city Nashville: they outlawed municipal mask mandates; tried to cut Metro Nashville Council in half (this was put off until 2027 but is still apparently happening, which will have the effect of giving the white parts of the city greater control); limited us using proceeds from Music City Center for anything other than paying off debt, which is slowing down our ability to rebuild the area that was bombed on Christmas 2020; trying to take over the Metropolitan Nashville Airport Authority and the sports authority; disbanded police oversight boards; prevented us from having supermajority vote requirements, which has the effect of lowering from 27 to 21 the votes necessary to approve things like the NASCAR racetrack facility (the residents have to deal with the noise and pollution, with most of the attendees coming from out of town); and perhaps worst, making it impossible to require new housing developments to include affordable housing.
It's a mess.
posted by joannemerriam at 1:43 PM on November 29, 2023 [15 favorites]
> "where do you worship?"
In response to those kinds of questions, I usually roll out Matthew 6:5-8, which nearly always shuts 'em up pretty good. Or at the very least leaves them confused.
posted by smcdow at 1:50 PM on November 29, 2023 [7 favorites]
In response to those kinds of questions, I usually roll out Matthew 6:5-8, which nearly always shuts 'em up pretty good. Or at the very least leaves them confused.
posted by smcdow at 1:50 PM on November 29, 2023 [7 favorites]
I mean, yay blue states, but this is so anecdotal and so far from the reality of the US population movement, it's almost comical.
Actual Stats
The red states are growing like crazy. The Democratic stalwart north east is growing very slowly. Colorado is the fastest growing blue state, but it's still not large in population.
Houston Texas alone grew by over 100,000 people in 2023 alone. You think all those people were not college educated? Come on now.
Let's dial down the doom. This scenario would actually lead to red states losing House seats, and some would lose electoral college votes as well. That doesn't add up to them maintaining a permanent majority.
Yeah, the biggest blue states lost the House seats in the last census: California, Illinois, Michigan, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia. So why couldn't Republicans theoretically run their states equally as poorly, in terms of population growth?
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:29 PM on November 29, 2023 [7 favorites]
Actual Stats
The red states are growing like crazy. The Democratic stalwart north east is growing very slowly. Colorado is the fastest growing blue state, but it's still not large in population.
Houston Texas alone grew by over 100,000 people in 2023 alone. You think all those people were not college educated? Come on now.
Let's dial down the doom. This scenario would actually lead to red states losing House seats, and some would lose electoral college votes as well. That doesn't add up to them maintaining a permanent majority.
Yeah, the biggest blue states lost the House seats in the last census: California, Illinois, Michigan, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia. So why couldn't Republicans theoretically run their states equally as poorly, in terms of population growth?
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:29 PM on November 29, 2023 [7 favorites]
Well, I don't blame anyone for leaving, but like hydropsyche, I'm a white, menopausal, cis-presenting lady without kids who knows how to write a thank you note and loves to make trouble, and I'll probably stay put until they run me out of town. If for no other reason than to provide whatever support I can to the people that can't leave. Or can't leave yet.
posted by thivaia at 2:45 PM on November 29, 2023 [16 favorites]
posted by thivaia at 2:45 PM on November 29, 2023 [16 favorites]
Meant to add that as soon as the kiddos are off to college, we're leaving Florida ASAP.
Some friends have said we should stay and fight, but I've been fighting for years. I've done phone banks and text banks for candidates and written stories (in my newspaper days) and blogged and in the runup to every Election Day, I individually nudged all of my contacts to vote and offer rides to the polls. And my candidates keep losing and every elected board is now dominated by the hard right. I go to school board meetings and county commission meetings where right-wingers yell and shout and say vile stuff for hours on end. And the demographic tide suggests it will just get worse.
When I came here 18 years ago it was a moderate and tolerant place. Now I feel like I'm the enemy in my own town. I'm done.
posted by martin q blank at 3:20 PM on November 29, 2023 [17 favorites]
Some friends have said we should stay and fight, but I've been fighting for years. I've done phone banks and text banks for candidates and written stories (in my newspaper days) and blogged and in the runup to every Election Day, I individually nudged all of my contacts to vote and offer rides to the polls. And my candidates keep losing and every elected board is now dominated by the hard right. I go to school board meetings and county commission meetings where right-wingers yell and shout and say vile stuff for hours on end. And the demographic tide suggests it will just get worse.
When I came here 18 years ago it was a moderate and tolerant place. Now I feel like I'm the enemy in my own town. I'm done.
posted by martin q blank at 3:20 PM on November 29, 2023 [17 favorites]
This has been happening for a long time. The Democrats fled from Texas and then Florida, and they continue to flee state after state. And then complain about the electoral college, fruitlessly.
Soon, there will be no place left to run. What will you do then?
They've had the 5th Circuit for a long time. This is the success of their culture war, that liberals would leave to avoid having to take a stand for their religion or their culture. It has worked.
posted by eustatic at 3:28 PM on November 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
Soon, there will be no place left to run. What will you do then?
They've had the 5th Circuit for a long time. This is the success of their culture war, that liberals would leave to avoid having to take a stand for their religion or their culture. It has worked.
posted by eustatic at 3:28 PM on November 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
We moved to Wisconsin a few years ago from Maryland, and it's been quite an adjustment. It looks like we might — after years of struggle — be turning the corner. Or the economy could stumble and we could be back to the Scott Walker days. It's definitely more stressful than living in Maryland was, Larry Hogan notwithstanding. I notice it most when I travel within the state (it's not for nothing that we refer to it as "The People's Republic of Dane County"). A lot of days I look west to Minnesota with more than a little envy, but then I remind myself that Iowa's right there, and they're facing even bigger challenges. I don't know where we'll end up post-retirement, but I can tell you that it won't be the Deep South, where we're from.
posted by wintermind at 3:32 PM on November 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by wintermind at 3:32 PM on November 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
The Inflation Reduction Act proves, to me, that the US will not act on climate change until enough people move to Texas to turn it Blue.
You can't just give $200 billion in subsidies to the oil and gas industry and just ignore what they are doing in Texas, and just pray that ExxonMobil is going to do the right thing with that IRA money
posted by eustatic at 3:37 PM on November 29, 2023 [9 favorites]
You can't just give $200 billion in subsidies to the oil and gas industry and just ignore what they are doing in Texas, and just pray that ExxonMobil is going to do the right thing with that IRA money
posted by eustatic at 3:37 PM on November 29, 2023 [9 favorites]
I lived in a red state when I was young. I wish someone had made Tex, the Passive-Aggressive Gunslinger back then so I could have seen it, it would have helped me fight back more effectively. Or if I had heard Carlin's "Lead, follow or get out of the way? Obstruct" advice.
Edit: Oh my, here's Tex...
posted by zaixfeep at 3:49 PM on November 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
Edit: Oh my, here's Tex...
posted by zaixfeep at 3:49 PM on November 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
I’m just glad that the WaPo article above highlights Oklahoma. My dad grew up in a blue-collar conservative leaning family in Oklahoma City, with a father who was a former dust bowl refugee. He was the first in his family to go to college, the first to leave Oklahoma, and the only one to settle long-term in a faraway blue state. I grew up hearing him talk regretfully about how he loves his family and misses the big open prairie landscapes, but just could not live in Oklahoma because of the politics. As far as I can tell Oklahoma’s never had a loudmouth governor with designs on higher office who emphasizes their cruelty for clout, like DeSantis or Abbott, so it’s not held up as a bastion of right-wing craziness in a way that motivates blue-staters to donate to local orgs. Policy-wise, though, it’s just as regressive as all of those more famous places. Thanks for the reminder for me to send some holiday donations to Sisu Youth Center and Roe Fund of Oklahoma.
Another thing about Texas and Oklahoma specifically; to the extent that local college grads do stay around, a lot of the big money jobs are in oil and gas. This means that even if younger folks do stay to fill those jobs, they’re likely to be people who lean conservative anyway, or are at least “apolitical” enough that they’ve found ways to justify working in that industry in the time of climate change. Two of my cousins who grew up in Oklahoma and stayed do some kind of petroleum industry work, and I don’t even want to ask them about their voting patterns. (Their parents are Trumpists, which is the source of a lot of family tension).
posted by ActionPopulated at 4:03 PM on November 29, 2023 [4 favorites]
Another thing about Texas and Oklahoma specifically; to the extent that local college grads do stay around, a lot of the big money jobs are in oil and gas. This means that even if younger folks do stay to fill those jobs, they’re likely to be people who lean conservative anyway, or are at least “apolitical” enough that they’ve found ways to justify working in that industry in the time of climate change. Two of my cousins who grew up in Oklahoma and stayed do some kind of petroleum industry work, and I don’t even want to ask them about their voting patterns. (Their parents are Trumpists, which is the source of a lot of family tension).
posted by ActionPopulated at 4:03 PM on November 29, 2023 [4 favorites]
The Right has been incredibly successful at getting people to vote against their best interests, this is just more of the same.
posted by tommasz at 8:29 AM on November 29
Mike Johnson, speaker of the House, was elected with 16% of the electorate in his district.
The Governor of Louisiana was elected with 18%.
It s not so much 'against their interests'. We have no one to vote for. Voter Suppression has only begun.
posted by eustatic at 4:05 PM on November 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by tommasz at 8:29 AM on November 29
Mike Johnson, speaker of the House, was elected with 16% of the electorate in his district.
The Governor of Louisiana was elected with 18%.
It s not so much 'against their interests'. We have no one to vote for. Voter Suppression has only begun.
posted by eustatic at 4:05 PM on November 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
I mean, yay blue states, but this is so anecdotal and so far from the reality of the US population movement, it's almost comical. Actual Stats
It should be noted that those rankings are by percentage, so low-population states get a real boost, but it doesn't reflect actual people. So Idaho is ranked #2 at 14%, but that's about a quarter million people. Compare that to Washington at #7 with 12%, which is nearly a million people.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 4:07 PM on November 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
It should be noted that those rankings are by percentage, so low-population states get a real boost, but it doesn't reflect actual people. So Idaho is ranked #2 at 14%, but that's about a quarter million people. Compare that to Washington at #7 with 12%, which is nearly a million people.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 4:07 PM on November 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
Soon, there will be no place left to run. What will you do then?
They've had the 5th Circuit for a long time. This is the success of their culture war, that liberals would leave to avoid having to take a stand for their religion or their culture. It has worked.
Looks like this is what happens when you stay and fight: it does no good.
Some friends have said we should stay and fight, but I've been fighting for years. I've done phone banks and text banks for candidates and written stories (in my newspaper days) and blogged and in the runup to every Election Day, I individually nudged all of my contacts to vote and offer rides to the polls. And my candidates keep losing and every elected board is now dominated by the hard right.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:45 PM on November 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
They've had the 5th Circuit for a long time. This is the success of their culture war, that liberals would leave to avoid having to take a stand for their religion or their culture. It has worked.
Looks like this is what happens when you stay and fight: it does no good.
Some friends have said we should stay and fight, but I've been fighting for years. I've done phone banks and text banks for candidates and written stories (in my newspaper days) and blogged and in the runup to every Election Day, I individually nudged all of my contacts to vote and offer rides to the polls. And my candidates keep losing and every elected board is now dominated by the hard right.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:45 PM on November 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
Soon, there will be no place left to run. What will you do then?
I don't know if this was in reference to me, but our plan is to move to a town that is not the literal GOP petri dish that my current county has become. I don't care if it's in a red state or blue. Leading candidates for our destination are near extended family in true-blue Massachusetts and upstate NY, or narrowly blue Pennsylvania, or narrowly red North Carolina. In the latter two, our votes and activism might matter.
posted by martin q blank at 5:04 PM on November 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
I don't know if this was in reference to me, but our plan is to move to a town that is not the literal GOP petri dish that my current county has become. I don't care if it's in a red state or blue. Leading candidates for our destination are near extended family in true-blue Massachusetts and upstate NY, or narrowly blue Pennsylvania, or narrowly red North Carolina. In the latter two, our votes and activism might matter.
posted by martin q blank at 5:04 PM on November 29, 2023 [5 favorites]
And then complain about the electoral college, fruitlessly.
I fully support complaining about the electoral college, whether fruitfully or not, as it is garbage.
posted by Artw at 6:18 PM on November 29, 2023 [8 favorites]
I fully support complaining about the electoral college, whether fruitfully or not, as it is garbage.
posted by Artw at 6:18 PM on November 29, 2023 [8 favorites]
> I fully support complaining about the electoral college, whether fruitfully or not, as it is garbage.
No arguments here, but a Constitutional amendment is the only way to (legally) change the electoral system, and with red states getting ever redder with sorting, that will never happen. And so we're stuck in limbo, complaining.
posted by smcdow at 6:54 PM on November 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
No arguments here, but a Constitutional amendment is the only way to (legally) change the electoral system, and with red states getting ever redder with sorting, that will never happen. And so we're stuck in limbo, complaining.
posted by smcdow at 6:54 PM on November 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
In case you missed it, POTUS has provided Your handy guide for responding to crazy MAGA nonsense this Thanksgiving [X via nitter.net]
posted by zaixfeep at 7:25 PM on November 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by zaixfeep at 7:25 PM on November 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
“whether fruitfully or not“
posted by Artw at 7:27 PM on November 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 7:27 PM on November 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
Also FYI National Popular Vote Interstate Compact to reform the EC without an amendment.
posted by zaixfeep at 7:34 PM on November 29, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by zaixfeep at 7:34 PM on November 29, 2023 [6 favorites]
And so we're stuck in limbo, complaining.
posted by smcdow at 6:54 PM on November 29
Y'all, my point is that you ve got to organize. Retreat or not, politics is not a lifestyle, it's a necessity.
What organizing are you doing around the electoral college effort?
posted by eustatic at 11:15 PM on November 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by smcdow at 6:54 PM on November 29
Y'all, my point is that you ve got to organize. Retreat or not, politics is not a lifestyle, it's a necessity.
What organizing are you doing around the electoral college effort?
posted by eustatic at 11:15 PM on November 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
I will go first. I work in environmental, and my family worked in oil and engineering. I don't want to say too much, the internet is dangerous.
ConocoPhillips is taking oodles of IRA money to begin new CO2 drilling in various parts of Louisiana where they own large amounts of real estate.
This is a threat to local Black communities, who lack representation in government at all levels and have no fire departmentsto deal with the hazards of the new infrastructure. Many have left after Hurricane Ida (and Barry and Isaac and Gustav and Katrina). Communities are hurting, and haven't received federal support from FEMA for the usual reasons. The local DA is seizing Black People s land because of the lack of clear title.
Of course, this new drilling is a threat to our natural resource lands, and the climate (which is the biggest threat to our land, and yours, probably).
I worked with some planned parenthood activists to hold a meeting in a white fishing-and-chemical worker community nearby the Black community that cannot organize politically against Conoco. ConocoPhillips. These white folks have the time, money, physical health, and entitlement to block the project. Many work in the oil industry. Many think climate change is a myth. Yet they know some Leopards are eating their face, even if we disagree on which leopards are doing it.
We set up one petition to the state regulator, One to the Department of Energy, possibly a source of funding for Conoco, and one to the local council (nearly all local councilmen are white).
We acted like we were going to sue ConocoPhillips, suppose we would have begged some attorneys if we had needed to. ConocoPhillips has dropped the project.
I wish we could present on the racist impacts of the IRA bill to someone in Treasury in DC, on how it is promoting new oil drilling in areas where even the oil workers don't want it.
I wish I could even meet with white folks and Black folks in the same community in the same room on this issue, to tell them how they helped one another.
(One organizer was Black working in this white community, and one was Houma, we can talk if we are able to focus on the larger problem, ConocoPhillips and the IRA bill 45Q subsidies)
Anyway, I want to hear how people are organizing to support OBs. My Wife s OB described the coming loss of OBs to Louisiana before and after Dobbs.
How are people prepared or preparing to support doctors who will do the right thing to save lives?
posted by eustatic at 11:53 PM on November 29, 2023 [9 favorites]
ConocoPhillips is taking oodles of IRA money to begin new CO2 drilling in various parts of Louisiana where they own large amounts of real estate.
This is a threat to local Black communities, who lack representation in government at all levels and have no fire departmentsto deal with the hazards of the new infrastructure. Many have left after Hurricane Ida (and Barry and Isaac and Gustav and Katrina). Communities are hurting, and haven't received federal support from FEMA for the usual reasons. The local DA is seizing Black People s land because of the lack of clear title.
Of course, this new drilling is a threat to our natural resource lands, and the climate (which is the biggest threat to our land, and yours, probably).
I worked with some planned parenthood activists to hold a meeting in a white fishing-and-chemical worker community nearby the Black community that cannot organize politically against Conoco. ConocoPhillips. These white folks have the time, money, physical health, and entitlement to block the project. Many work in the oil industry. Many think climate change is a myth. Yet they know some Leopards are eating their face, even if we disagree on which leopards are doing it.
We set up one petition to the state regulator, One to the Department of Energy, possibly a source of funding for Conoco, and one to the local council (nearly all local councilmen are white).
We acted like we were going to sue ConocoPhillips, suppose we would have begged some attorneys if we had needed to. ConocoPhillips has dropped the project.
I wish we could present on the racist impacts of the IRA bill to someone in Treasury in DC, on how it is promoting new oil drilling in areas where even the oil workers don't want it.
I wish I could even meet with white folks and Black folks in the same community in the same room on this issue, to tell them how they helped one another.
(One organizer was Black working in this white community, and one was Houma, we can talk if we are able to focus on the larger problem, ConocoPhillips and the IRA bill 45Q subsidies)
Anyway, I want to hear how people are organizing to support OBs. My Wife s OB described the coming loss of OBs to Louisiana before and after Dobbs.
How are people prepared or preparing to support doctors who will do the right thing to save lives?
posted by eustatic at 11:53 PM on November 29, 2023 [9 favorites]
If the term 'culture war' has now passed into everyday language, then the far-right have succeeded in redefining hate as a 'culture'.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 2:46 AM on November 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Cardinal Fang at 2:46 AM on November 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
> What organizing are you doing around the electoral college effort?
For starters, not fleeing a red state
posted by smcdow at 5:58 AM on November 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
For starters, not fleeing a red state
posted by smcdow at 5:58 AM on November 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
For the good of society ... the Republican Party must be eradicated from public life entirely — the whole preposterous ideology, at every level.
posted by i used to be someone else at 7:53 AM on November 30, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by i used to be someone else at 7:53 AM on November 30, 2023 [5 favorites]
For starters, not fleeing a red state
Do not listen to this guy. If you need to flee, flee.
posted by Artw at 8:06 AM on November 30, 2023 [7 favorites]
Do not listen to this guy. If you need to flee, flee.
posted by Artw at 8:06 AM on November 30, 2023 [7 favorites]
I work for a red state, and my institution's dissolved its diversity initiatives to comply with state law. Now, we're going to work on institutional culture instead, often with the same people. It's different, but similar.
Leaving would be hard. I'm close to being fully vested for my pension, and most of my friends, and the Glee Gal's family all live here. My family also lives in red states, so moving to be close to them wouldn't change much.
So, we'll stay and fight.
posted by Spike Glee at 11:44 AM on November 30, 2023 [6 favorites]
Leaving would be hard. I'm close to being fully vested for my pension, and most of my friends, and the Glee Gal's family all live here. My family also lives in red states, so moving to be close to them wouldn't change much.
So, we'll stay and fight.
posted by Spike Glee at 11:44 AM on November 30, 2023 [6 favorites]
By such steps the War on Christmas will yet be won. Onward and upward.
posted by y2karl at 1:00 PM on November 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by y2karl at 1:00 PM on November 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
Act 2 of this recent episode of This American Life had interviews with Idaho legislators reacting to doctors fleeing their state over abortion policies. Not surprising, but chillingly banal audio and a corrective to any hope they would change course regardless of the consequences.
posted by chimpsonfilm at 2:14 PM on November 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by chimpsonfilm at 2:14 PM on November 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
“Blue Cities Under Red State Rule,” Jay Kuo, The Big Picture, 30 November 2023
Red-state legislatures exerting anti-democratic control over blue cities is the latest Republican power grab.posted by ob1quixote at 3:50 PM on November 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
“Can we keep both fascism and climate doom at bay for decades to come?” Stan Cox, Resilience.org, 30 November 2023
posted by ob1quixote at 7:10 AM on December 1, 2023
posted by ob1quixote at 7:10 AM on December 1, 2023
I left Texas for a blue state in early 2000 but it wasn't for politics. It was global warming! In summer 1999, San Antonio had 35 straight days over 35 F plus weeks of thick smoke from huge wildfires in Mexico.
posted by neuron at 11:27 AM on December 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by neuron at 11:27 AM on December 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
Myself and my wife are trapped in a very red state by poverty and illness. I wouldn't ask anyone to come here to try to fix the place. But I would appreciate people remembering we aren't all stupid and vicious.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 12:07 PM on December 2, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by The Manwich Horror at 12:07 PM on December 2, 2023 [10 favorites]
Reddit: I always considered myself a Libertarian... then I moved to Texas
I grew up in Washington state and am originally from California. I'm pretty left leaning on pretty much every social issue. Marry who you wanna marry, abort who you wanna abort, call yourself whatever gender you want and I'll respect it. None of these things affect me and therefore I do not care. It doesn't matter if I personally think it's weird or wrong, if you're not hurting me, I literally don't care. Give respect, get respect. Simple.
I came to Texas for a job opportunity to further my career. Based on reputation and lore I thought my dirt bike, my wheeler, my hunting rifles, and my camping gear would be welcome here. Less regulation, everyone thinks of themselves as a hard country boy who knows how to do it all, etc.
Nope. Where can you free camp? Nowhere. Where can you ride dirt bikes or go rock crawling for free? Nowhere. Where can you hunt where you actually have to try and you're not shooting fish in a barrel? Nowhere.
95% of Texas is privately owned. By contrast, only 56% of Washington is privately owned. That means 44% of the state is open to public use. And yes, the government still regulates how you can use it, but it ultimately results in more land to do what you want, even in a much smaller state. Whether its riding dort bikes, free camping, or hunting.
Not to mention where can I buy an 8th and not worry about being caught...
I'm all for small government, but I'm realizing I'm not for *NO* government. Having some shared land we can all use as we wish is good. Having areas set aside for public use is good. *this side of the mountain is for off-roading (and no you dont need a license plate), this other side is for hiking and camping*
I hate a lot of WA state's ultra liberal policies and high taxes. But I also feel I had more freedom there in many ways.
Maybe I don't actually like what I've always advocated for after all...
Discuss...
Edit: 3 days later I got banned from this sub over this post. Freedom lovers my ass. This is place is run by ashamed right-wingers.
posted by Artw at 9:55 AM on December 3, 2023 [14 favorites]
I grew up in Washington state and am originally from California. I'm pretty left leaning on pretty much every social issue. Marry who you wanna marry, abort who you wanna abort, call yourself whatever gender you want and I'll respect it. None of these things affect me and therefore I do not care. It doesn't matter if I personally think it's weird or wrong, if you're not hurting me, I literally don't care. Give respect, get respect. Simple.
I came to Texas for a job opportunity to further my career. Based on reputation and lore I thought my dirt bike, my wheeler, my hunting rifles, and my camping gear would be welcome here. Less regulation, everyone thinks of themselves as a hard country boy who knows how to do it all, etc.
Nope. Where can you free camp? Nowhere. Where can you ride dirt bikes or go rock crawling for free? Nowhere. Where can you hunt where you actually have to try and you're not shooting fish in a barrel? Nowhere.
95% of Texas is privately owned. By contrast, only 56% of Washington is privately owned. That means 44% of the state is open to public use. And yes, the government still regulates how you can use it, but it ultimately results in more land to do what you want, even in a much smaller state. Whether its riding dort bikes, free camping, or hunting.
Not to mention where can I buy an 8th and not worry about being caught...
I'm all for small government, but I'm realizing I'm not for *NO* government. Having some shared land we can all use as we wish is good. Having areas set aside for public use is good. *this side of the mountain is for off-roading (and no you dont need a license plate), this other side is for hiking and camping*
I hate a lot of WA state's ultra liberal policies and high taxes. But I also feel I had more freedom there in many ways.
Maybe I don't actually like what I've always advocated for after all...
Discuss...
Edit: 3 days later I got banned from this sub over this post. Freedom lovers my ass. This is place is run by ashamed right-wingers.
posted by Artw at 9:55 AM on December 3, 2023 [14 favorites]
“Why Charles Blow Says Black People Need to Leave the North and Return to the South,” Angela Johnson, The Root, 28 November 2023
posted by ob1quixote at 10:48 AM on December 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by ob1quixote at 10:48 AM on December 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
So they can get their votes suppressed?
posted by Artw at 10:50 AM on December 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:50 AM on December 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
Report of a Special Committee: Political Interference and Academic Freedom in Florida’s Public Higher Education System
What we are witnessing in Florida is an intellectual reign of terror. There is a tremendous sense of dread right now, not just among faculty; it’s tangible among students and staff as well. People are intellectually and physically scared. We are being named an enemy of the State. The events at Jacksonville too, feel real, and people feel it could happen to them.2
—LeRoy Pernell, professor of law, Florida A&M (interview with the special committee)
The human toll in Florida is catastrophic. We are tired of being demonized by our government. Many of us are looking to leave Florida, and if we don’t, we will leave academia, and nobody wants our jobs. Faculty are suffering. And when we leave, our communities, our students, families—they will all suffer. So, when we fight for faculty, we are also fighting for the people in our communities.
—A faculty member and union leader in Florida (interview with the special committee)
posted by Artw at 8:54 AM on December 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
What we are witnessing in Florida is an intellectual reign of terror. There is a tremendous sense of dread right now, not just among faculty; it’s tangible among students and staff as well. People are intellectually and physically scared. We are being named an enemy of the State. The events at Jacksonville too, feel real, and people feel it could happen to them.2
—LeRoy Pernell, professor of law, Florida A&M (interview with the special committee)
The human toll in Florida is catastrophic. We are tired of being demonized by our government. Many of us are looking to leave Florida, and if we don’t, we will leave academia, and nobody wants our jobs. Faculty are suffering. And when we leave, our communities, our students, families—they will all suffer. So, when we fight for faculty, we are also fighting for the people in our communities.
—A faculty member and union leader in Florida (interview with the special committee)
posted by Artw at 8:54 AM on December 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
“No Beliefs, Just Intentions,” A.R. Moxon, The Reframe, 17 December 2023
Victims of abuse create language to name both abuse and abusers. Inevitably, abusers use that same language to deny what they're doing. Navigating false equivalence in an age of rising fascism.posted by ob1quixote at 10:59 AM on December 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
Seattle Children’s sues Texas AG over request for gender care records
Even staying out of the stars with the bullshit politics, the bullshit politics may come for you.
posted by Artw at 11:47 AM on December 21, 2023
Even staying out of the stars with the bullshit politics, the bullshit politics may come for you.
posted by Artw at 11:47 AM on December 21, 2023
So they can get their votes suppressed?
posted by Artw at 10:50 AM on December
I would reconsider this comment and read the article
Black people in the US have 'voted with their feet' since forever (1862 comes to mind) and in massive numbers. they and native people are the experts on the costs and benefits of internal displacement
Was the Great Migration a 'brain drain'? What do we owe the ancestors who got shot at, who got their buses turned around when they fled north?
Holding on to Hope Isn’t the Same as Real Political Power
Through his travels, Blow found the idea of wielding real political power resonated in particular with young people who aren’t motivated by the messages of hope and fear we’ve heard for decades. He cited Georgia, which elected its first Black and Jewish senators in 2020, as an example of a Southern city that got a taste of what that real political power feels like
I could paste this whole article. Where can I see this movie?
posted by eustatic at 12:24 AM on December 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:50 AM on December
I would reconsider this comment and read the article
Black people in the US have 'voted with their feet' since forever (1862 comes to mind) and in massive numbers. they and native people are the experts on the costs and benefits of internal displacement
Was the Great Migration a 'brain drain'? What do we owe the ancestors who got shot at, who got their buses turned around when they fled north?
Holding on to Hope Isn’t the Same as Real Political Power
Through his travels, Blow found the idea of wielding real political power resonated in particular with young people who aren’t motivated by the messages of hope and fear we’ve heard for decades. He cited Georgia, which elected its first Black and Jewish senators in 2020, as an example of a Southern city that got a taste of what that real political power feels like
I could paste this whole article. Where can I see this movie?
posted by eustatic at 12:24 AM on December 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
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posted by humbug at 7:46 AM on November 29, 2023 [1 favorite]