Her first publication? her bat mitzvah speech in the synagogue bulletin

December 16, 2023 1:46 PM

Naomi Klein on the podcast Between the Covers. Part 1 transcript & audio. Part 2 transcript & audio: "We can’t accept the weaponization of traumatic memories, which are real. Nazis boycotted Jewish businesses. That memory is in Jewish DNA and that is going to be weaponized and used to say [Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions advocates] are like the Nazis. At the same time, we have to somehow find a way to recognize that those feelings are real and trauma is complicated. We can’t just scream at people who feel things. We have to find a way to navigate that and hold more complicated spaces that allow for the reality of feelings without conceding the truth of the point."

On a formative experience as an undergrad:

I contributed an op-ed [about the first intifada] that caused a huge firestorm on my campus that was like a microcosm of the kinds of things we’re seeing now. It involved emergency meetings, it involved bringing in donors to pressure the president of the university to denounce me and defund the student newspaper, it involved accusing me of being a self-hating Jew and not a real Jew.

On suppression of political speech and protest:

in Canada, the book market is extremely concentrated... there’s a single book chain called Chapters/Indigo that controls 40% of the retail book market and 80% in some regions. Chapters/Indigo, the controlling shares are owned by a Canadian power couple named Heather Reisman and Gerald Schwartz who are very right-wing Zionists, and they’re extremely active in organizing the Jewish lobby. They organized a merger of different Jewish groups a few years ago. They wanted a more pro-Israel Jewish lobby in Canada.

They also formed a foundation in 2005 called The HESEG Foundation for Lone Soldiers. This is very, very controversial for Palestine solidarity activists because HESEG is a scholarship fund for soldiers who enroll in the IDF who are not Israeli. They’re Jews who want to join the IDF from different countries, Canada, but other countries and HESEG offers these soldiers full-ride scholarships, cost of living income, career advice, there’s a HESEG house in Israel. It’s like a fraternity but this clearly is recruitment for the IDF...

I have been troubled by this for a long time because I’ve been fortunate enough to sell a lot of books in Canada and that means that I’ve made a lot of money for Chapters/Indigo, and that means that some portion of those profits have gone to HESEG because Heather Reisman and Gerry Schwartz are the financial backers of HESEG. They spend millions of their own money but that also means that a portion of it is book money, so that means that the whole Canadian literary world is implicated in this without our consent, without our consultation.

The reason why this is relevant is that there was a protest on November 10th outside of Indigo’s flagship store in Toronto and people put up mocked-up book covers of Heather’s face that said, “Funding genocide,” then they threw red paint. In the early hours of the morning about a week ago, I think it was 4:30 in the morning, dozens of riot police broke down the doors of 11 activists around Toronto, who they claim did this act of nonviolent, not property destruction, it was wheat paste, posters, and washable paint and they woke people from their sleep at 4:30, 5:30 in the morning. There were apparently a minimum of eight officers in each house, arrested parents in front of their kids, then sent out a press release saying these were hate-motivated crimes.

posted by spamandkimchi (12 comments total)

Naomi Klein -- everything fine!!!
posted by hippybear at 1:57 PM on December 16, 2023 [20 favorites]

I didn't know that about Chapters/Indigo. I get so tired of Canadian monopolies. I'm sure there's all kinds of coziness between monopoly proprietors, politicians, and elites in what is really quite a small world. And we Canadians just get bland, over-priced, samey stuff. And fun glitches like Rogers going down, knocking down Interac, knocking down nearly all bank transactions for a day. You could be airdropped into many Canadian suburbs and small towns and have a hard time figuring out where you are because the same set of chains are so pervasive. Bleh.
posted by lookoutbelow at 2:07 PM on December 16, 2023 [4 favorites]

That memory [of boycotts] is in Jewish DNA [and therefore traumatizing to Israelis]

I think this argument against BDS would feel more genuine if not for the fact that Gaza has been totally boycotted for 16 years now. And it's not just any old boycott, it's a total economic strangulation applying to both imports and exports, designed to destroy their economy and strip away their basic human dignity and ability to feed their children.
posted by splitpeasoup at 4:05 PM on December 16, 2023 [12 favorites]

While we can accept that someone feels certain way about something, we can't react to every feeling as if it was objective truth.

I wish I could find the article, but there was a story about an adult male in Wales with minor mental health issues who took an air rifle to a public park/forest to shoot squirrels, which was illegal. He came across a family who testified that they thought they were all going to be murdered, despite no evidence that he was ever threatening towards them. In handing down a sentence in line with the minor hunting infraction, not based on any sort of attempted murder charge, the judge said that it was important to respond to the intent and demonstrated actions of the accused, not to the subjective interpretation of alleged victims, no matter how strongly they felt, or how scared they were.

Intent can be tricky, but feelings are way trickier. To ignore another's intent because you can't be sure of it, and instead demand that your feelings about someone's intent be respected without question or limit is unreasonable, yet here we are.
posted by krisjohn at 4:41 PM on December 16, 2023 [23 favorites]

I think this argument against BDS would feel more genuine

It is not an argument against BDS, and I think it might be worth your while to think about why you misread that quote in a way that made you think that it was.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:17 PM on December 16, 2023 [10 favorites]

Huh? Klein herself seems pretty clear that people are making this argument against BDS, or likely to make such an argument against BDS. I fully agree with her, to be clear.

I sense that you are trying to pick a fight with me but not sure why.
posted by splitpeasoup at 6:14 PM on December 16, 2023 [7 favorites]

Maybe ArbitraryAndCapricious thought you mean that Klein herself was arguing against BDS using that argument? That's how I mis-interpreted what you were saying, at least.
posted by AdamCSnider at 6:15 PM on December 16, 2023 [1 favorite]

splitpeasoup and AdamCSnider, Klein says:

At the same time, we have to somehow find a way to recognize that those feelings are real and trauma is complicated. We can’t just scream at people who feel things. We have to find a way to navigate that and hold more complicated spaces that allow for the reality of feelings without conceding the truth of the point, which I think we’ve been horrifically bad at including me by the way, very bad at. I just think it can just argue the point, I think we can do a lot better.

So maybe in the context of this interview, this isn't the place to just make arguments for BDS in front of a sympathetic audience. It's completely missing the point of what Klein is talking about. Sure those arguments against BDS are hypocritical and wrong, and splitpeasoup soup's argument is right, but why not read the interview and actually respond to what Klein is saying about traumatic memories.
posted by riddley at 9:57 PM on December 16, 2023 [7 favorites]

Also thanks spamandkimchi, this is a great interview
posted by riddley at 10:11 PM on December 16, 2023 [2 favorites]

How about engaging with the fpp. You could even start by just reading the pull quote, no clicking on links needed.
posted by eviemath at 6:35 AM on December 18, 2023 [6 favorites]

The left in America has lost the thread totally.

I know! I heard The Left burned down every single block of the city of Portland, leaving not a single structure standing. And now this! Is there no stopping them?!?!
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 8:40 AM on December 18, 2023 [5 favorites]

I know! I heard The Left burned down every single block of the city of Portland

even worse in canada. the Woke Mob has infiltrated the most important institution and are redistributing the timbits.
posted by busted_crayons at 1:25 AM on December 19, 2023 [2 favorites]