tl;dw: RUN FOR THE HILLS
February 6, 2024 11:02 PM Subscribe
A helpful Adversary explains to a Sunday School class the many ways that Evangelical Christian teaching doesn't match up to what pastors learn in seminary, in the animated documentary Satan's Guide to the Bible. (1 hour 26 minutes) Watch out for that Jen!
I got into an argument around age 9 or 10 at Catechism class when I refused to believe the Noah’s ark story as stated - I mean, there are some practical issues here. The priest kicked me out of class and made me stand in the hall until my mom came to pick me up. Thanks Father Blueballs you saved me a lot of time becoming an atheist.
posted by whatevernot at 4:01 AM on February 7 [41 favorites]
posted by whatevernot at 4:01 AM on February 7 [41 favorites]
Father Blueballs?
posted by amanda at 4:33 AM on February 7 [4 favorites]
posted by amanda at 4:33 AM on February 7 [4 favorites]
Pretty good deep dive on some issues, especially with the modern theologians trying to justify horrible stuff as being divinely inspired. I'll never understand exactly why they elevate the words of the (protestant) bible as being the ultimate authority, above the dictates of the golden rule itself. The video could have added a lot more (maybe I missed some by skimming it) like divine approval of chattel slavery, rape (forced marriage) of war captives, capital punishment for minor infractions, and so on.
The main points on Jesus seem to be: don't really need his message, because it is pretty basic humanism. Well, that was the point---evidently humans do in fact need that message, over and over, especially the religious ones. The religious leaders in fact claimed that he was the devil, which tells you a lot.
posted by TreeRooster at 4:54 AM on February 7 [7 favorites]
The main points on Jesus seem to be: don't really need his message, because it is pretty basic humanism. Well, that was the point---evidently humans do in fact need that message, over and over, especially the religious ones. The religious leaders in fact claimed that he was the devil, which tells you a lot.
posted by TreeRooster at 4:54 AM on February 7 [7 favorites]
Religion is yet another progressive invention to subdue regression, whose tools of control have been seized by regressives to amplify their power.
This is the delicate balance of democracy; always teetering on the edge of collapse as it jerks back and forth between enlightenment and mayhem.
posted by CynicalKnight at 6:21 AM on February 7 [4 favorites]
This is the delicate balance of democracy; always teetering on the edge of collapse as it jerks back and forth between enlightenment and mayhem.
posted by CynicalKnight at 6:21 AM on February 7 [4 favorites]
My childhood church was not evangelical, but I've noticed that they tend to leave out a lot of things that are inconvenient, like Luther's antisemitism or the fact that Christianity took hold in Rome not because of the apostles' preaching, but because Constantine made it the state religion.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:06 AM on February 7 [5 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:06 AM on February 7 [5 favorites]
I thought this video was charming, entirely, but then I like felt storyboarding and sarcasm.
posted by which_chick at 8:11 AM on February 7 [5 favorites]
posted by which_chick at 8:11 AM on February 7 [5 favorites]
I feel like there is a basic human need to make sense of our existence. To fight within ourselves against the understanding of our own mortality. To know that our daily existence is just a blip. Religion steps right in. Some people seem more wired for religion than others. There seems to be a genetic component. Lots of anecdotal stories of children raised separate from their birth family and when they meet them again, find a commonality of religious belief that set them apart from their adopted family. These fundamental beliefs and needs are easily manipulated and have been for generations. My religious brother-in-law on every visit will drink too much and try to engage in a philosophical conversation where the “gotcha” is that I should believe in God. Last time it was about how everyone struggles and that we all need to be more forgiving when people are bad. Interesting. I told him that I don’t think all people struggle with being bad. And what kind of “bad” is he talking about? I think he feels bad a lot and was raised, religiously, to feel so and to forgive other people’s bad things done to him (same here, as I was religiously raised and also abused). The answer for him is more church. In my opinion, the church piles on and weaponizes this searching against us. It’s remarkably effective.
posted by amanda at 8:12 AM on February 7 [12 favorites]
posted by amanda at 8:12 AM on February 7 [12 favorites]
TreeRooster: The main points on Jesus seem to be: don't really need his message, because it is pretty basic humanism. Well, that was the point---evidently humans do in fact need that message, over and over, especially the religious ones.
Reminds me of that scene in the first season of Good Omens where Crowley and Aziraphale are watching the crucifixion:
C: What was it he said that got everyone so upset?
A: Be kind to each other.
C: Oh, yeah. That'll do it.
posted by indexy at 8:55 AM on February 7 [22 favorites]
Reminds me of that scene in the first season of Good Omens where Crowley and Aziraphale are watching the crucifixion:
C: What was it he said that got everyone so upset?
A: Be kind to each other.
C: Oh, yeah. That'll do it.
posted by indexy at 8:55 AM on February 7 [22 favorites]
Metafilter: Father Blueballs
posted by CynicalKnight at 10:31 AM on February 7 [8 favorites]
posted by CynicalKnight at 10:31 AM on February 7 [8 favorites]
Even though the intention is to show the shaky ground some beliefs are based on, I think it is even more helpful as a discussion of beliefs that don't get much attention compared to the Golden Rule. If you understand that people believe that God wants the Canaanites to be exterminated and celebrates the death of even their children, then a lot of current events become more understandable.
posted by betaray at 10:34 AM on February 7 [11 favorites]
posted by betaray at 10:34 AM on February 7 [11 favorites]
I didn't go to Sunday school as a child, and while I have heard of the felt boards and assume that the characters in the video are stock characters that Sunday school kids would be familiar with, I have questions about the character design for Satan.
Is he a stock felt board character as well? If so, why, oh why, did they make him such a DILF?
I just can't help but think that if I was exposed to this Satan growing up, I would have been very confused about whose side I was supposed to root for.
posted by The Ardship of Cambry at 12:20 PM on February 7 [3 favorites]
Is he a stock felt board character as well? If so, why, oh why, did they make him such a DILF?
I just can't help but think that if I was exposed to this Satan growing up, I would have been very confused about whose side I was supposed to root for.
posted by The Ardship of Cambry at 12:20 PM on February 7 [3 favorites]
Although I am an atheist, and always have been, I enjoy reading the Bible and know it well. So did my atheist dad and my atheist grandparents. I also respect most religious people. Fundamentalists are a minority among believers, if you look at it globally. But fundamentalists are really, really not respectable and there is a very simple reason for that: if you really read the Christian Bible or the Torah or the Quran (or any other religious texts) you will realize that they cannot be the word of God, or the Truth about anything or even inspired by God. In a sense, that is their magic. They are the words of humans, created over time, and they are a reminder that humans are human throughout the ages. They are "true" because they are full of faults and contradictions and lies and other made-up stuff, and dreams and poems and weird little anecdotes. There are nursery tales and violence and endless lists of things you don't really care about. And they are very much a reflection of the time in which they were written. They are true in the sense that they remind us that we are human and fallible and stupid and full of contradictions.
The problem with fundamentalism is that you are basically forcing yourself and your surroundings to ignore what is in the text and instead "believe" that God made it and that everything in the Bible (or random other religious text) is the truth BUT NEVER READ IT!!! Read the redacted, abridged, interpreted versions. Read the children's Bible. "Believe" does a lot of work here. Even a thousand years ago, Noah's ark can't have made a lot of sense, and they didn't even know about the dinosaurs. I think there is a reason that most fundamentalist movements are modern, in the sense that they have risen as a part of modernity. They do the same thing as fascism, and that is why the connection between Evangelists and Trump makes so much sense: they force you to pledge allegiance to absurd lies and other nonsensical claims, and thus hand off your own senses and "believe" the unbelievable.
(I know there have been fundamentalist sects way back, but #1: they have been smaller groups and #2: there are people claiming modernity began in the Middle Ages, which does make some sense).
posted by mumimor at 12:41 PM on February 7 [13 favorites]
The problem with fundamentalism is that you are basically forcing yourself and your surroundings to ignore what is in the text and instead "believe" that God made it and that everything in the Bible (or random other religious text) is the truth BUT NEVER READ IT!!! Read the redacted, abridged, interpreted versions. Read the children's Bible. "Believe" does a lot of work here. Even a thousand years ago, Noah's ark can't have made a lot of sense, and they didn't even know about the dinosaurs. I think there is a reason that most fundamentalist movements are modern, in the sense that they have risen as a part of modernity. They do the same thing as fascism, and that is why the connection between Evangelists and Trump makes so much sense: they force you to pledge allegiance to absurd lies and other nonsensical claims, and thus hand off your own senses and "believe" the unbelievable.
(I know there have been fundamentalist sects way back, but #1: they have been smaller groups and #2: there are people claiming modernity began in the Middle Ages, which does make some sense).
posted by mumimor at 12:41 PM on February 7 [13 favorites]
Re: Sexy Satan
As I was watching the video, I was thinking about how it was funny that this video would definitely be called Satanic by evangelicals, but it leans into the fact that it is Satan's argument.
I wouldn't say this is a typical depiction of Satan, but it is biblical. Confusion is Satan's MO. Satan is the great deceiver. If looking hot is what it takes to lead you astray, that's what Satan will do. From 2 Corinthians 11:
posted by betaray at 4:03 PM on February 7 [3 favorites]
As I was watching the video, I was thinking about how it was funny that this video would definitely be called Satanic by evangelicals, but it leans into the fact that it is Satan's argument.
I wouldn't say this is a typical depiction of Satan, but it is biblical. Confusion is Satan's MO. Satan is the great deceiver. If looking hot is what it takes to lead you astray, that's what Satan will do. From 2 Corinthians 11:
14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.This doesn't get much attention in evangelical churches because they present themselves as servants of righteousness. So, Satan is primarily horns and pitchforks.
posted by betaray at 4:03 PM on February 7 [3 favorites]
Mind-arresting religion works without gods, through its doom fraud: The end of times needs a salvation. Salvation needs a morality to judge by. Judgment needs scriptural history of a contractual bond. Scripture requires a literal interpretation of magical history. Literal magic is normalized by group-think. Groups need an end of times to make individual commitment urgently necessary.
posted by Brian B. at 4:27 PM on February 7
posted by Brian B. at 4:27 PM on February 7
Dr. Roger Ray at Progressive Faith Sermons has been preaching this from the pulpit for years now. There's no room for magical thinking in his church, and he regularly rants about pastors who know these bible secrets but still continue on.
posted by daHIFI at 5:35 PM on February 7 [3 favorites]
posted by daHIFI at 5:35 PM on February 7 [3 favorites]
This was much more interesting than I expected. It's so obvious that so many of the soi-disant scholars in the video are just grasping at straws to justify their own immorality. Specifically their justification of their own violent tendencies.
posted by ob1quixote at 7:59 PM on February 7 [2 favorites]
posted by ob1quixote at 7:59 PM on February 7 [2 favorites]
I quite enjoyed watching and learned a lot. Of course I was aware of all the Old Testament barbarity but the historical context for Jewish apocalypticism in the first centuries BC/CE was quite interesting. It never occurred to me that the Kingdom of Heaven was referred to as a literal thing (makes obvious sense considering a people living under Roman subjugation.) Hearing a lot of the New Testament verses now after 30 years away from the church I can see how young me would just plow through these things as figures of speech, lest the cognitive dissonance incurred by giving them serious thought might trigger any doubts.
posted by simra at 8:43 PM on February 7 [2 favorites]
posted by simra at 8:43 PM on February 7 [2 favorites]
Reminds me of my favourite joke: What to you call a person who has read the whole Bible cover to cover? An atheist!
posted by a humble nudibranch at 10:21 PM on February 7 [8 favorites]
posted by a humble nudibranch at 10:21 PM on February 7 [8 favorites]
I thought this was going to be from the very silly church of Satan and their counterproductive freedom of religion stunts (like the Baphomet statue) but this is a fucking fantastic deep dive into the intricacies of bible scholarship and factional divides. Of all the 90 minute videos posted on Metafilter, this is the first one I ever finished ! I intended to try 2 minutes and bail but it was mesmerizing.
Also I remember being like 7 and asking a Sunday school teacher some straightforward questions about the stuff they were telling us, resulting in her talking to my parents. In fairness to evangelicals though, I grew up going to BOTH a mountain Southern Baptist church with a yelling preacher and a city Catholic Church for years, and while the Catholics were richer and more solemn (the baptists had way better music), the dogma was about the same.
posted by caviar2d2 at 9:33 AM on February 8 [3 favorites]
Also I remember being like 7 and asking a Sunday school teacher some straightforward questions about the stuff they were telling us, resulting in her talking to my parents. In fairness to evangelicals though, I grew up going to BOTH a mountain Southern Baptist church with a yelling preacher and a city Catholic Church for years, and while the Catholics were richer and more solemn (the baptists had way better music), the dogma was about the same.
posted by caviar2d2 at 9:33 AM on February 8 [3 favorites]
What a find. Woke up thinking about it.
posted by ducky l'orange at 10:49 AM on February 8
posted by ducky l'orange at 10:49 AM on February 8
This was amazing. Growing up, my family was a Creaster family at best, and then we went to Vacation Bible School for a week every summer just to get out of my mom's hair. But after I became an adult and moved away, my parents got mad religious, to the point that they flirt with fundamentalism.
There's a lot I don't know/understand about the Bible, given my limited exposure to it, but this gave me a really good foundation to start on when they want to get in on their religious rants. Plus it was hella entertaining!
posted by StaleCigsandStrongWhiskey at 9:02 PM on February 8 [1 favorite]
There's a lot I don't know/understand about the Bible, given my limited exposure to it, but this gave me a really good foundation to start on when they want to get in on their religious rants. Plus it was hella entertaining!
posted by StaleCigsandStrongWhiskey at 9:02 PM on February 8 [1 favorite]
I love this film so much. It’s exactly the reminder that we Christians need that religion is an imperfect representation of our faith, which is also imperfect. From the inside, we forget often that our faith, its origins, and arcs are as flawed as we are. It’s far too easy to get caught up in the search for righteousness and forget to embrace that we exist on a continuum of imperfection. The word of God is unique to each of us. The idea of Jesus is a powerful way to connect people and continues to be relevant. It’s just unfortunate that most Christians have treated the Bible in all its different incantations as literal truth for now when it was written as gospel for another time. That we haven’t had new books of the Bible written and incorporated broadly has always been a curiosity of mine. Why not include modern letters and scholarly works into this already millennia aged work?
posted by WorkshopGuyPNW at 5:35 AM on February 10 [1 favorite]
posted by WorkshopGuyPNW at 5:35 AM on February 10 [1 favorite]
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If your whole culture is about believing in stupid self-contradictory lies full of violence and authoritarianism, Trump is verily the performative self-contradictory second coming of Christ.
Obviously, I always knew evangelism is stupid, but I've never before bothered to spend this much time on finding out how stupid it is. Thanks for posting!
posted by mumimor at 1:43 AM on February 7 [20 favorites]