JS+TDS=?
February 12, 2024 8:23 PM Subscribe
It's... not blocked in Canada?
I'm not skilled in emoji, but "hands in the air".
posted by hippybear at 8:34 PM on February 12 [3 favorites]
I'm not skilled in emoji, but "hands in the air".
posted by hippybear at 8:34 PM on February 12 [3 favorites]
I mean, the end of the thing...
posted by hippybear at 8:42 PM on February 12 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 8:42 PM on February 12 [1 favorite]
Enh, it was no Elvis ‘68.
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:46 PM on February 12 [7 favorites]
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:46 PM on February 12 [7 favorites]
Yay!
posted by notmtwain at 8:58 PM on February 12 [1 favorite]
posted by notmtwain at 8:58 PM on February 12 [1 favorite]
Um...I noped out when he explained "deMOCKracy," like we're too dumb to get the joke?
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:30 PM on February 12 [3 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:30 PM on February 12 [3 favorites]
I haven't watched it yet, but I guarantee that is a second-order joke about how the original joke was so dumb that there is no way he's actually required to explain it.
posted by rifflesby at 11:14 PM on February 12 [22 favorites]
posted by rifflesby at 11:14 PM on February 12 [22 favorites]
An "I'm embarrassed about the previous joke" joke, in other words.
posted by rifflesby at 11:15 PM on February 12 [3 favorites]
posted by rifflesby at 11:15 PM on February 12 [3 favorites]
on viewing, yeah wow he's cringing even more than I imagined, he's absolutely doing a "This is the best we could come up with" bit. Where I was a little wrong though, was that I assumed it would be more of an embarrassed ad-lib, whereas it actually appears to be a scripted bit -- that is, it's more of a "this election does not merit a better joke" bit.
Anyway that's your Joke Explainer Minute, from a guy who spends maybe too much time thinking about the structure of jokes.
posted by rifflesby at 11:28 PM on February 12 [8 favorites]
Anyway that's your Joke Explainer Minute, from a guy who spends maybe too much time thinking about the structure of jokes.
posted by rifflesby at 11:28 PM on February 12 [8 favorites]
I only caught most of it by chance, but it was not as bad as I thought it would be! The end of his last turn there was as cringey as anything, and I don't think I watched more than a blink at a time for at least the last couple years, and I go back to the Kilborn days with Carell, Colbert, Helms, etc. This time I didn't notice his googly-eyed screaming "ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!" routine, which is enough for now. I'll try to remember to watch next week.
posted by rhizome at 12:25 AM on February 13 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 12:25 AM on February 13 [1 favorite]
I think the ending of this makes it.
First he pivots from a discussion of the age of both candidates to point out that "guys - I'm arguably old too." And then he serious-es out for the last bit to point out that - we're all focusing so much on Election Day, but the real work of bringing about change is "a daily lunchpail job", done by thousands upon thousands of anonymous and smart and passionate people, grinding away daily until the work gets done and then staying on to make sure it stays in place. "You don't just have to worry about Election Day - you have to worry about every day before and every day after, forever."
There is a weird sort of mindset in this country that all we have to do is elect the right president and then we can sit back and he'll take care of everything. And that's not true - if the "right" guy wins there's still a lot to do, and if the "wrong" guy wins it's not over and there's still a lot we can do.
I feel like he's realizing his previous version of the show contributed to that "one and done" mindset a little, but his actions for the Zadroga Act were eye-opening, and it'll be interesting to see how that affects things for the show.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:57 AM on February 13 [40 favorites]
First he pivots from a discussion of the age of both candidates to point out that "guys - I'm arguably old too." And then he serious-es out for the last bit to point out that - we're all focusing so much on Election Day, but the real work of bringing about change is "a daily lunchpail job", done by thousands upon thousands of anonymous and smart and passionate people, grinding away daily until the work gets done and then staying on to make sure it stays in place. "You don't just have to worry about Election Day - you have to worry about every day before and every day after, forever."
There is a weird sort of mindset in this country that all we have to do is elect the right president and then we can sit back and he'll take care of everything. And that's not true - if the "right" guy wins there's still a lot to do, and if the "wrong" guy wins it's not over and there's still a lot we can do.
I feel like he's realizing his previous version of the show contributed to that "one and done" mindset a little, but his actions for the Zadroga Act were eye-opening, and it'll be interesting to see how that affects things for the show.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:57 AM on February 13 [40 favorites]
I’m glad he’s back but I thought he interrupted Zanny Minton Beddoes a lot.
posted by alphanerd at 5:32 AM on February 13
posted by alphanerd at 5:32 AM on February 13
There is a weird sort of mindset in this country that all we have to do is elect the right president and then we can sit back and he'll take care of everything.
I think this was sort of true in the past, but the last decade-ish has involved so many calls to citizen action, I don't know if it's so anymore. That said, everyone I know who is daily engaged with "citizenship work" is retired, unemployed, semi-employed, independently wealthy, or it's the primary activity in their life that isn't their job. I am grateful for their labor, but I think for so many of us "a daily lunchpail job" is not in the cards--more like a "sometimes on a break, when I get one."
posted by cupcakeninja at 5:34 AM on February 13 [4 favorites]
I think this was sort of true in the past, but the last decade-ish has involved so many calls to citizen action, I don't know if it's so anymore. That said, everyone I know who is daily engaged with "citizenship work" is retired, unemployed, semi-employed, independently wealthy, or it's the primary activity in their life that isn't their job. I am grateful for their labor, but I think for so many of us "a daily lunchpail job" is not in the cards--more like a "sometimes on a break, when I get one."
posted by cupcakeninja at 5:34 AM on February 13 [4 favorites]
There is a weird sort of mindset in this country that all we have to do is elect the right president and then we can sit back and he'll take care of everything.
Maybe that mindset isn't so much "elect the right guy and they'll take care of everything" so much as it is "elect someone who acknowledges all the hard work that's already being done by anonymous and smart and passionate people and who won't stand in the way of that work".
I know it's cool to dunk on critics for weirdly expecting something to be done about issues like abortion and trans rights and racial inequality, but there's a ton of those people that Stewart is lionizing that are working hard on those things every day, and it would be nice to at least acknowledge that instead of the usual shoulder shrug of "come back when you have the votes, and even then don't expect much".
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:38 AM on February 13 [11 favorites]
Maybe that mindset isn't so much "elect the right guy and they'll take care of everything" so much as it is "elect someone who acknowledges all the hard work that's already being done by anonymous and smart and passionate people and who won't stand in the way of that work".
I know it's cool to dunk on critics for weirdly expecting something to be done about issues like abortion and trans rights and racial inequality, but there's a ton of those people that Stewart is lionizing that are working hard on those things every day, and it would be nice to at least acknowledge that instead of the usual shoulder shrug of "come back when you have the votes, and even then don't expect much".
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:38 AM on February 13 [11 favorites]
everyone I know who is daily engaged with "citizenship work" is retired, unemployed, semi-employed, independently wealthy, or it's the primary activity in their life that isn't their job
I would actually argue that a lot of it gets done in small chunks, and expecting that it must be done in these full time firehose streams actually discourages people from feeling like they can be a part of it. You do citizenship work every time you educate other people or help them be engaged, or write a letter or call your legislator, watch someone’s kids for an hour so they can go to a meeting, or even pick trash up in your local park.
posted by corb at 5:49 AM on February 13 [15 favorites]
I would actually argue that a lot of it gets done in small chunks, and expecting that it must be done in these full time firehose streams actually discourages people from feeling like they can be a part of it. You do citizenship work every time you educate other people or help them be engaged, or write a letter or call your legislator, watch someone’s kids for an hour so they can go to a meeting, or even pick trash up in your local park.
posted by corb at 5:49 AM on February 13 [15 favorites]
TBH, I don't really know how I feel about this. I already have a scary deja vu feeling which was exacerbated with the Hur report. Having the same, albeit aged, comedians saying the same things may not be good for my mental health.
I’m glad he’s back but I thought he interrupted Zanny Minton Beddoes a lot.
That too. From a European perspective, Trump's open alignment with Putin is incredibly scary. Stewart has always been more about the US domestic stuff, and that is completely OK. He's an American. But when someone from Europe brings in their perspective to his wildly popular show, it would be nice if he gave them some speaking time.
(Also, the English upper class has some insane names going on)
posted by mumimor at 5:52 AM on February 13 [3 favorites]
I’m glad he’s back but I thought he interrupted Zanny Minton Beddoes a lot.
That too. From a European perspective, Trump's open alignment with Putin is incredibly scary. Stewart has always been more about the US domestic stuff, and that is completely OK. He's an American. But when someone from Europe brings in their perspective to his wildly popular show, it would be nice if he gave them some speaking time.
(Also, the English upper class has some insane names going on)
posted by mumimor at 5:52 AM on February 13 [3 favorites]
There is a weird sort of mindset in this country that all we have to do is elect the right president and then we can sit back and he'll take care of everything.
I think this was sort of true in the past
It has never been true. What has been true is that American politics were relatively middle-of-the-road for a long time, allowing the electorate to sleepwalk through the democratic process and truly believe that the presidential election was all that really mattered. But those chickens of disinterest have come home to roost, and guess what, you have to care about and vote in every single election to really have your tiny voice heard. Which revelation has caused people to come to the (incorrect and lazy) conclusion that voting is pointless and doesn't matter. And now we're in a position where every presidential election is DeMoCrAcY iN tHe BaLaNcE and man, it stanks.
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:15 AM on February 13 [14 favorites]
I think this was sort of true in the past
It has never been true. What has been true is that American politics were relatively middle-of-the-road for a long time, allowing the electorate to sleepwalk through the democratic process and truly believe that the presidential election was all that really mattered. But those chickens of disinterest have come home to roost, and guess what, you have to care about and vote in every single election to really have your tiny voice heard. Which revelation has caused people to come to the (incorrect and lazy) conclusion that voting is pointless and doesn't matter. And now we're in a position where every presidential election is DeMoCrAcY iN tHe BaLaNcE and man, it stanks.
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:15 AM on February 13 [14 favorites]
That said, everyone I know who is daily engaged with "citizenship work" is retired, unemployed, semi-employed, independently wealthy, or it's the primary activity in their life that isn't their job.
Just pointing out that Jon Stewart didn't say who had to do that "daily lunchpail job". I got the sense that he wasn't speaking like "each of us has to do this work", more like "there are a lot of lobbyists and activists and political staffers, and they are the ones doing the real work to support and guide the presidents."
And by extension, that means that each of us has more access to people with a portion of the political power than we think; we may not have the time or the bandwidth to actually go to Washington and knock on the doors daily, but we can call the people who do and say "hey, can you put in a word for me". We may not have the time to do anything but vote, but that's something we can do, and we can chat about how we're voting with our family and friends. And we don't have to write direct to the president - we can write to our representative. Or a staffer in their office. Or someone locally. Hell, I got a tax issue resolved only one hour after calling my city councilman.
That's more what I think he meant - that our chances to approach and deal with the government are all the time, instead of just once every four years.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:28 AM on February 13 [14 favorites]
Just pointing out that Jon Stewart didn't say who had to do that "daily lunchpail job". I got the sense that he wasn't speaking like "each of us has to do this work", more like "there are a lot of lobbyists and activists and political staffers, and they are the ones doing the real work to support and guide the presidents."
And by extension, that means that each of us has more access to people with a portion of the political power than we think; we may not have the time or the bandwidth to actually go to Washington and knock on the doors daily, but we can call the people who do and say "hey, can you put in a word for me". We may not have the time to do anything but vote, but that's something we can do, and we can chat about how we're voting with our family and friends. And we don't have to write direct to the president - we can write to our representative. Or a staffer in their office. Or someone locally. Hell, I got a tax issue resolved only one hour after calling my city councilman.
That's more what I think he meant - that our chances to approach and deal with the government are all the time, instead of just once every four years.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:28 AM on February 13 [14 favorites]
hands in the air
posted by Mike Mongo at 6:57 AM on February 13
posted by Mike Mongo at 6:57 AM on February 13
grumpybear69, I think of voting in all elections and primaries as a basic obligation and was not including that in my calculus. (I am aware that not everyone feels that way.) In any case, the "this was sort of true in the past" was intended to refer to the fact that the mindset existed. I don't know many people who believe that these days. Those I know who do believe it are the ones who essentially never think about politics or citizenship.
posted by cupcakeninja at 7:03 AM on February 13 [4 favorites]
posted by cupcakeninja at 7:03 AM on February 13 [4 favorites]
I'm glad you feel that way too, cupcakeninja.
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:13 AM on February 13 [3 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:13 AM on February 13 [3 favorites]
He’s still funny, though I’m more interested in what changes he’ll make as showrunner.
(Isn’t this properly a Fanfare post? Are we not using the purple part of the site any more?)
posted by LooseFilter at 7:27 AM on February 13 [1 favorite]
(Isn’t this properly a Fanfare post? Are we not using the purple part of the site any more?)
posted by LooseFilter at 7:27 AM on February 13 [1 favorite]
Isn’t this properly a Fanfare post?
This was newsworthy enough for CBS (although admittedly they're the parent company) and for NPR, so I think it's a special Blue Status.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:42 AM on February 13 [4 favorites]
This was newsworthy enough for CBS (although admittedly they're the parent company) and for NPR, so I think it's a special Blue Status.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:42 AM on February 13 [4 favorites]
>your tiny voice heard
I like this metaphor! when a crowd whispers in unison, they can be heard.
(and on the physics level people out-of-phase cancel other people out)
posted by torokunai at 7:44 AM on February 13 [2 favorites]
I like this metaphor! when a crowd whispers in unison, they can be heard.
(and on the physics level people out-of-phase cancel other people out)
posted by torokunai at 7:44 AM on February 13 [2 favorites]
Um...I noped out when he explained "deMOCKracy," like we're too dumb to get the joke?
It was worth going on (and no, that wasn't the joke. The joke was that it was so bad).
I also had qualms about going back in time 20 years, but it's not. Jon Stewart has grown like the rest of us.
posted by jb at 7:48 AM on February 13 [2 favorites]
It was worth going on (and no, that wasn't the joke. The joke was that it was so bad).
I also had qualms about going back in time 20 years, but it's not. Jon Stewart has grown like the rest of us.
posted by jb at 7:48 AM on February 13 [2 favorites]
Welcome back, Jon. I missed you.
Hi there Klepper. It's good to see you, too.
posted by mule98J at 7:50 AM on February 13 [3 favorites]
Hi there Klepper. It's good to see you, too.
posted by mule98J at 7:50 AM on February 13 [3 favorites]
The real work of bringing about change is a shit sandwich daily lunchpail job.
Jon's sentiment here aligns well with John Oliver's recent interview on Hot Ones, right at the end when he's asked about whether years of covering current events has made him cynical and how change happens.
posted by neuracnu at 8:34 AM on February 13 [5 favorites]
Jon's sentiment here aligns well with John Oliver's recent interview on Hot Ones, right at the end when he's asked about whether years of covering current events has made him cynical and how change happens.
posted by neuracnu at 8:34 AM on February 13 [5 favorites]
This is a better version of the "they're both so old" joke.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:35 AM on February 13 [9 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:35 AM on February 13 [9 favorites]
I think Jon Stewart either saved the Biden re-election campaign or ended it. Either Biden does a sit down interview and puts these concerns over his brain to rest or he should resign and let Kamala run as an incumbent.
posted by interogative mood at 8:40 AM on February 13 [2 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 8:40 AM on February 13 [2 favorites]
Trump is polling 11 points higher than Biden on "handling the economy."
I'm gonna assume in this crowd there is no reason I need to list the reasons he was positively fucking disastrous for the economy or the various things Biden did right, even if we are not, by and large, his most enthusiastic cheerleaders.
But given that the people being polled lived through all of this, too, I have no idea what is even happening anymore and I just want to pull out all of my fucking hair.
Something like half the voting public really feels like we're still living in a "both sides are pretty much the same" scenario and is happy to keep flipping the switch back and forth between D and R, just to register their nonspecific unhappiness with the state of the country.
I don't even know how you counter that. I laughed at some of Stewart's jokes last night, but I'm gonna need him to do more than another round of "These fucking guys, amirite?" if we're going to keep low information voters from blithely steering us off a fucking cliff.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:03 AM on February 13 [27 favorites]
I'm gonna assume in this crowd there is no reason I need to list the reasons he was positively fucking disastrous for the economy or the various things Biden did right, even if we are not, by and large, his most enthusiastic cheerleaders.
But given that the people being polled lived through all of this, too, I have no idea what is even happening anymore and I just want to pull out all of my fucking hair.
Something like half the voting public really feels like we're still living in a "both sides are pretty much the same" scenario and is happy to keep flipping the switch back and forth between D and R, just to register their nonspecific unhappiness with the state of the country.
I don't even know how you counter that. I laughed at some of Stewart's jokes last night, but I'm gonna need him to do more than another round of "These fucking guys, amirite?" if we're going to keep low information voters from blithely steering us off a fucking cliff.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:03 AM on February 13 [27 favorites]
Agreed, DirtyOldTown. I'm hoping that this was a topic he did because he felt (incorrectly, imho) like he had to re-establish some credibility as an impartial critic, before goring Trump in every episode for the next nine months or so. Because focusing on age is creating an equivalency between the two when there is absolutely no equivalency.
posted by martin q blank at 9:22 AM on February 13 [6 favorites]
posted by martin q blank at 9:22 AM on February 13 [6 favorites]
My father - who is as far from being a Trumper as you can get - has been saying that if the election comes down to Biden vs. Haley, he would likely vote for Haley. I haven't pushed back on that since it does not seem likely - but if she does end up being the candidate, I'm going to be having some loooooooooooooong conversations about "exactly why don't you want to go for Biden again".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:34 AM on February 13 [2 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:34 AM on February 13 [2 favorites]
Biden never should have run for re-election. Didn't he describe himself as the bridge to the next generation during the last election ? Not really giving the next generation a chance if you keep blocking the bridge, Joe.
posted by Pendragon at 9:37 AM on February 13 [13 favorites]
posted by Pendragon at 9:37 AM on February 13 [13 favorites]
but I'm gonna need him to do more than another round of "These fucking guys, amirite?"
This is where I've come to appreciate John Oliver's refinement of the schtick, as it were. Oliver has been very good about going beyond "these fucking guys, amirite?" bemusement to channel some real outrage while also proposing solutions. He's also not afraid of appearing too partisan and doesn't temper his message merely because there's one particular half of the political spectrum that vehemently opposes things with no rhyme or reason.
It seems Stewart has grown up a bit, so we can only hope that he's now following Oliver's lead.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:58 AM on February 13 [13 favorites]
This is where I've come to appreciate John Oliver's refinement of the schtick, as it were. Oliver has been very good about going beyond "these fucking guys, amirite?" bemusement to channel some real outrage while also proposing solutions. He's also not afraid of appearing too partisan and doesn't temper his message merely because there's one particular half of the political spectrum that vehemently opposes things with no rhyme or reason.
It seems Stewart has grown up a bit, so we can only hope that he's now following Oliver's lead.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:58 AM on February 13 [13 favorites]
There is a weird sort of mindset in this country that all we have to do is elect the right president and then we can sit back and he'll take care of everything
I think this is called consumerism and it is pretty rampant in the United States, although some of that is changing. It s changing in different ways for different parts of US society but it was a driving part of Democrats electing Biden, someone who would 'fix it', vs someone with the attitude of the Warren or Sanders' campaign, that 'we have to fix it.'
I think consumerism is behind the joke that Desi Lysic's character really wants to vote for Taylor Swift, the #1 brand for liberals in the USA.
A lot of consunerist politics is less and less effective at the state level. because of the loss of basic journalist capacity, local politics are becoming national. In the void of information left by the 'pivot to video' and other consolidations and radical layoffs within the business of journalism, fascists are organizing
explicitly to make local politics national.
And what does the daily show have to make fun of, when there are fewer and fewer journalists to manufacture the liberal consensus?
And Tucker Carlson, grand nemesis, is trying his hardest to manufacture a 'Christian International' consensus? (Which is funny, because Putin is vocally not a Christian )
A lot of the discussion among liberals is 'how can we excite the youths about the national election (during an emerging genocide)'. This is a symptom of the larger problem-- it s increasingly impossible to view the national election through a consumerist frame. Watching the west wing and the daily show was never enough, definitely not enough now.
International politics is especially immune to consumerism, and the Biden administration is having trouble selling its admittedly most-progressive-stance ever on Israel as an improvement over the policies of Kissenger, if children still die en masse, and International law has no hold, and the US is responsible.
I feel like Stewart was trying to talk about this, with his choice of right wing guest, because this type of right winger hardly exists in the USA anymore after 8 years of Trump. They are both unmoored by the new political reality. They are both 'too old'.
I thought the Economist editor was also confused about her own point. I was not really interested in hearing about how Europeans are 'just smarter' than the US or something. I think the point was for an American audience to hear that we are living in an Era of turmoil in the International order.
An interesting question for the Economist would have been, is euro journalism seeing the same decline as the USA?
posted by eustatic at 10:01 AM on February 13 [6 favorites]
I think this is called consumerism and it is pretty rampant in the United States, although some of that is changing. It s changing in different ways for different parts of US society but it was a driving part of Democrats electing Biden, someone who would 'fix it', vs someone with the attitude of the Warren or Sanders' campaign, that 'we have to fix it.'
I think consumerism is behind the joke that Desi Lysic's character really wants to vote for Taylor Swift, the #1 brand for liberals in the USA.
A lot of consunerist politics is less and less effective at the state level. because of the loss of basic journalist capacity, local politics are becoming national. In the void of information left by the 'pivot to video' and other consolidations and radical layoffs within the business of journalism, fascists are organizing
explicitly to make local politics national.
And what does the daily show have to make fun of, when there are fewer and fewer journalists to manufacture the liberal consensus?
And Tucker Carlson, grand nemesis, is trying his hardest to manufacture a 'Christian International' consensus? (Which is funny, because Putin is vocally not a Christian )
A lot of the discussion among liberals is 'how can we excite the youths about the national election (during an emerging genocide)'. This is a symptom of the larger problem-- it s increasingly impossible to view the national election through a consumerist frame. Watching the west wing and the daily show was never enough, definitely not enough now.
International politics is especially immune to consumerism, and the Biden administration is having trouble selling its admittedly most-progressive-stance ever on Israel as an improvement over the policies of Kissenger, if children still die en masse, and International law has no hold, and the US is responsible.
I feel like Stewart was trying to talk about this, with his choice of right wing guest, because this type of right winger hardly exists in the USA anymore after 8 years of Trump. They are both unmoored by the new political reality. They are both 'too old'.
I thought the Economist editor was also confused about her own point. I was not really interested in hearing about how Europeans are 'just smarter' than the US or something. I think the point was for an American audience to hear that we are living in an Era of turmoil in the International order.
An interesting question for the Economist would have been, is euro journalism seeing the same decline as the USA?
posted by eustatic at 10:01 AM on February 13 [6 favorites]
Middle-of-the-road American voters have been conditioned to view presidential politics as a boring television show whose effects on their life are minimal. And they've grown to treat their mercurial opinions on which side they favor as proof of their measured, non-biased character. They have little to no ability to adjust based on changes to the Overton Window.
We're so fucked.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:08 AM on February 13 [5 favorites]
We're so fucked.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:08 AM on February 13 [5 favorites]
when Reagan was reelected, I was in college and our dorm room BS sessions couldn't really nail down why it was bad that the "Commander in Chief" was getting soft in the head since the administration isn't really run by one person like some 3000BC Sumerian kingdom.
Then Iran-Contra hit and it became a bit clearer where we were wrong. Not that I can see an equivalent mirror-universe thing happening now, but ceteris paribus a JFK is preferable to a Biden I guess.
Not sure that applies to the current GOP tho.
posted by torokunai at 10:30 AM on February 13 [4 favorites]
Then Iran-Contra hit and it became a bit clearer where we were wrong. Not that I can see an equivalent mirror-universe thing happening now, but ceteris paribus a JFK is preferable to a Biden I guess.
Not sure that applies to the current GOP tho.
posted by torokunai at 10:30 AM on February 13 [4 favorites]
The current GOP is more like 'Bircher John Bolton is on his third book tour accusing Trump of treason, except now that Russia has invaded Estonia, he s constituionally correct. But how will Kavanaugh vote?, and how will this affect Senate fundraising from Billionaire-Lich Mercer?"
posted by eustatic at 10:46 AM on February 13
posted by eustatic at 10:46 AM on February 13
Further derail (sorry) but the polite-media complex is already on its way to making Biden's age the 'butter emails' thing x 1000. They've successfully shifted the focus from a demented racist sociopathic rapist criminal who is going to destroy this country's governance over to 'Biden is just too old'. god I hate them. And the idiots in that complex apparently are disregarding that they are the next to go to TrumpCamps (TM) after the unhoused and the undocumented. WTF won't they wake up!
I hate this, but in my nearly useless opinion, I think he's going to lose - too much corporate media fuckery, too much maga fuckery, too much fox fuckery. And it's too bad cause Gaza aide (a HUGE aside) he's been a great president.
It's the never gonna happen, but step aside (approval skyrockets); Kamala Harris moves over to Justice to replace the absolutely useless bag of uselessness Merrick Garland, Gretchen Whitmer as Presidential nominee, Ralph Warnock as VP....
posted by WatTylerJr at 10:55 AM on February 13 [6 favorites]
I hate this, but in my nearly useless opinion, I think he's going to lose - too much corporate media fuckery, too much maga fuckery, too much fox fuckery. And it's too bad cause Gaza aide (a HUGE aside) he's been a great president.
It's the never gonna happen, but step aside (approval skyrockets); Kamala Harris moves over to Justice to replace the absolutely useless bag of uselessness Merrick Garland, Gretchen Whitmer as Presidential nominee, Ralph Warnock as VP....
posted by WatTylerJr at 10:55 AM on February 13 [6 favorites]
Which is a real shame because the media generally did do the Right Thing during the 2020 election with that story about Hunter Biden's laptop. They acknowledged it but didn't really dive into any rampant speculation.
I don't know if the age thing is just the media responding to criticism from the right for having not hyped the laptop or if there's just a childish 'sticking it to the incumbent' factor that journalists like to indulge in.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 11:06 AM on February 13 [1 favorite]
I don't know if the age thing is just the media responding to criticism from the right for having not hyped the laptop or if there's just a childish 'sticking it to the incumbent' factor that journalists like to indulge in.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 11:06 AM on February 13 [1 favorite]
An interesting question for the Economist would have been, is euro journalism seeing the same decline as the USA?
This is where the EU is not the US. Some countries have laws that protect and subsidize real journalism and some don't. You can almost see it directly in the voting results. Liberal countries protect information. Which reminds me to tell my EU representative to suggest public knowledge EU laws.
Back to reality: I think the huge problem is that Trump came back. So there was no real plan for the 2024 election. Kamala Harris was chosen as VP because she is smart and does a really good job, but no-one gave a thought to this election.
Because Kamala Harris can not win a presidential election. I hate to be so blunt, and I hate that this is the case, but there is the racism, the sexism, and also the absurd perception that she is a radical leftist which is based entirely on her race and gender (and maybe even the fact that her husband is Jewish).
posted by mumimor at 11:07 AM on February 13 [5 favorites]
This is where the EU is not the US. Some countries have laws that protect and subsidize real journalism and some don't. You can almost see it directly in the voting results. Liberal countries protect information. Which reminds me to tell my EU representative to suggest public knowledge EU laws.
Back to reality: I think the huge problem is that Trump came back. So there was no real plan for the 2024 election. Kamala Harris was chosen as VP because she is smart and does a really good job, but no-one gave a thought to this election.
Because Kamala Harris can not win a presidential election. I hate to be so blunt, and I hate that this is the case, but there is the racism, the sexism, and also the absurd perception that she is a radical leftist which is based entirely on her race and gender (and maybe even the fact that her husband is Jewish).
posted by mumimor at 11:07 AM on February 13 [5 favorites]
I think there are media consumption options, if you think Daily Show is past its prime, and watching Seth from SNL and Stephen Colbert do the same jokes nightly doesn't cut it for you
Really I think of Some More News as the new mutant youtube video show offspring of TDS, but especially COVID era TDS? Perhaps SMN is more like a grandchild, and it is the offspring of Last Week Tonight by John Oliver?
Roy Wood Jr is touring, but was an amazing podcast host as well as TDS host, i thought. watching for what he does next.
Larry Wilmore is podcasting, but mainly producing now?
Lizz Winstead is now an abortion activist, leader of Abortion Access Front, which has a media production focus and a a youtube page
Anti-IraqWarII-era lefty Sam Seder re-started in 2010 with the Majority Report radio show, which survives in near pristine format, even though we don't have radio shows anymore. I watch it on youtube because I am out of touch
And there are a number of anti fascist shows out there in podcastland, but unsure if that is where a lot of people want to go
posted by eustatic at 11:41 AM on February 13 [1 favorite]
Really I think of Some More News as the new mutant youtube video show offspring of TDS, but especially COVID era TDS? Perhaps SMN is more like a grandchild, and it is the offspring of Last Week Tonight by John Oliver?
Roy Wood Jr is touring, but was an amazing podcast host as well as TDS host, i thought. watching for what he does next.
Larry Wilmore is podcasting, but mainly producing now?
Lizz Winstead is now an abortion activist, leader of Abortion Access Front, which has a media production focus and a a youtube page
Anti-IraqWarII-era lefty Sam Seder re-started in 2010 with the Majority Report radio show, which survives in near pristine format, even though we don't have radio shows anymore. I watch it on youtube because I am out of touch
And there are a number of anti fascist shows out there in podcastland, but unsure if that is where a lot of people want to go
posted by eustatic at 11:41 AM on February 13 [1 favorite]
No better candidates on the Democratic side beat the old white guy. Who the hell do you think would do better at this point? I wanted Elizabeth Warren myself, but noooooooo.
The avalanche has started, it's too late for the pebbles to vote.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:59 AM on February 13 [8 favorites]
The avalanche has started, it's too late for the pebbles to vote.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:59 AM on February 13 [8 favorites]
No better candidates on the Democratic side beat the old white guy.
Josh Shapiro, Gretchen Whitmer, Tim Walz, Chris Murphy, Cory Booker, Gavin Newsom, etc.
Like Kamala, one can come up with lots of reason why candidate X can't win, but the Democrats do have a bench of younger potentials, it does exist. We won't know if any are a better candidate than Biden this time around, because the ship has 100% sailed on that.
posted by mcstayinskool at 12:22 PM on February 13 [1 favorite]
Josh Shapiro, Gretchen Whitmer, Tim Walz, Chris Murphy, Cory Booker, Gavin Newsom, etc.
Like Kamala, one can come up with lots of reason why candidate X can't win, but the Democrats do have a bench of younger potentials, it does exist. We won't know if any are a better candidate than Biden this time around, because the ship has 100% sailed on that.
posted by mcstayinskool at 12:22 PM on February 13 [1 favorite]
Like Kamala, one can come up with lots of reason why candidate X can't win, but the Democrats do have a bench of younger potentials, it does exist.
I totally agree, I just think Kamala is the worst option among the younger Democrats and I can even think of reasons that is why she is the vice president apart from the fact that the Biden team weren't thinking ahead. But I won't. That ship has sailed. But it does tell us that Biden didn't have the future as his first priority.
posted by mumimor at 12:42 PM on February 13 [2 favorites]
I totally agree, I just think Kamala is the worst option among the younger Democrats and I can even think of reasons that is why she is the vice president apart from the fact that the Biden team weren't thinking ahead. But I won't. That ship has sailed. But it does tell us that Biden didn't have the future as his first priority.
posted by mumimor at 12:42 PM on February 13 [2 favorites]
Back to reality: I think the huge problem is that Trump came back.
Came back? He never left. There was zero doubt in anyone's mind that, barring death, Trump would be the Republican nominee for president in 2024.
posted by rhymedirective at 12:57 PM on February 13 [4 favorites]
Came back? He never left. There was zero doubt in anyone's mind that, barring death, Trump would be the Republican nominee for president in 2024.
posted by rhymedirective at 12:57 PM on February 13 [4 favorites]
barring death, Trump would be the Republican nominee for president in 2024.
It's not over yet. Somebody get this motherfucker some more cheeseburgers and European Sudafed.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:01 PM on February 13
It's not over yet. Somebody get this motherfucker some more cheeseburgers and European Sudafed.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:01 PM on February 13
I've been getting madder and matter at Stewart's bothsideism since watching this clip this morning. Biden's old and not evil. Trump is old and mega evil. I don't know of anyone who loves these are the candidates, but there are major differences. And I thought Biden's cookie comment was cute.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:08 PM on February 13 [8 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 1:08 PM on February 13 [8 favorites]
We won't know if any are a better candidate than Biden this time around, because the ship has 100% sailed on that.
The ship hasn't sailed, there is PLENTY of time to find an actual viable candidate, but Biden wants to run and the Democratic establishment is fully behind him and damn you for even questioning the idea that he should have another term.
posted by graventy at 1:28 PM on February 13 [6 favorites]
The ship hasn't sailed, there is PLENTY of time to find an actual viable candidate, but Biden wants to run and the Democratic establishment is fully behind him and damn you for even questioning the idea that he should have another term.
posted by graventy at 1:28 PM on February 13 [6 favorites]
Trump is polling 11 points higher than Biden on "handling the economy."
Part of this definitely comes down to a contingent of American voters who will, without fail, just be down economically on whoever happens to be in charge-- as you alluded to. But polling on the economy is also skewed by the fact that Republicans' perception of reality is far, far more distorted by politics than Democrats. Of course Democrats are also a little more favorable to their people and a little harder on Republicans, but the effect is significantly more intense for Republicans-- and that effect is, in part, driving the disparity between how good the economy really is right now and answers to questions like 'do you approve of Biden's handling of the economy?'
Anyway, I watched the segment. I thought it was alright. It was nice to see Jon Stewart doing his thing. But it did feel a little like he felt the need to equivocate and 'both sides' the issue to avoid being branded as partisan. It's one thing to talk about the optics of it, but are we really going to pretend that it's perfectly valid and trustworthy for a special counsel to insert transparently political points into what is supposed to be a neutral, impartial report... especially when that special counsel has been very active in the politics of a particular party... especially when that special counsel was previously appointed to a high-ranking political role by a president of that party... especially when the subject of the report (and the inappropriate political points) happens to be a president of the other party, against whom the special counsel's erstwhile political benefactor is running? It felt a bit like Stewart just... took that at face value.
I get that most voters who aren't terribly engaged with the political process (and even many who are) feel a general, typically not very well defined discontent with the way this election is shaping up, and that a large part of that discontent is a perception that somehow the two options really aren't all that different-- but they are, and those differences have titanic consequences for the country and the world. We can acknowledge that feeling without feeding into it, and I felt like Stewart fed into it.
posted by Method Man at 1:32 PM on February 13 [5 favorites]
Part of this definitely comes down to a contingent of American voters who will, without fail, just be down economically on whoever happens to be in charge-- as you alluded to. But polling on the economy is also skewed by the fact that Republicans' perception of reality is far, far more distorted by politics than Democrats. Of course Democrats are also a little more favorable to their people and a little harder on Republicans, but the effect is significantly more intense for Republicans-- and that effect is, in part, driving the disparity between how good the economy really is right now and answers to questions like 'do you approve of Biden's handling of the economy?'
Anyway, I watched the segment. I thought it was alright. It was nice to see Jon Stewart doing his thing. But it did feel a little like he felt the need to equivocate and 'both sides' the issue to avoid being branded as partisan. It's one thing to talk about the optics of it, but are we really going to pretend that it's perfectly valid and trustworthy for a special counsel to insert transparently political points into what is supposed to be a neutral, impartial report... especially when that special counsel has been very active in the politics of a particular party... especially when that special counsel was previously appointed to a high-ranking political role by a president of that party... especially when the subject of the report (and the inappropriate political points) happens to be a president of the other party, against whom the special counsel's erstwhile political benefactor is running? It felt a bit like Stewart just... took that at face value.
I get that most voters who aren't terribly engaged with the political process (and even many who are) feel a general, typically not very well defined discontent with the way this election is shaping up, and that a large part of that discontent is a perception that somehow the two options really aren't all that different-- but they are, and those differences have titanic consequences for the country and the world. We can acknowledge that feeling without feeding into it, and I felt like Stewart fed into it.
posted by Method Man at 1:32 PM on February 13 [5 favorites]
yeah I stopped watching this (return) show when it got to this view-from-nowhere perspective.
"Ha ha ha" the destruction of my country is so funny!
posted by torokunai at 1:47 PM on February 13 [2 favorites]
"Ha ha ha" the destruction of my country is so funny!
posted by torokunai at 1:47 PM on February 13 [2 favorites]
Jon Stewart's original run in the Iraq War was already during the destruction of the U.S., you just didn't know it yet. Chickens come home to roost.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:01 PM on February 13 [2 favorites]
posted by Apocryphon at 3:01 PM on February 13 [2 favorites]
That was fantastic and highly appreciated in our progressive/ leftist household. A+, would watch again. I’m actually glad he kinda/sorta both-sided the mental decay thing. It was clear that he views Trump (senile + evil) as worse than Biden (senile + not evil, aside from Gaza), but he’s leaving that to the viewer. Part of the genius of TDS has always been that he’s acknowledging that NO ONE is happy with our choices, and that gives the half of the country that’s conservative an honorable out to look for something better. As in, man it sucks for all of us that these two geezers are all we have. We LOLed pretty continuously through this.
I especially appreciated the callout to voting as A thing but not THE thing. I know so many other leftists who don’t want to vote because of Gaza or whatever (I feel ya) but it’s just a thing you must do. Otherwise Trump wins and trans people are in camps, and instead of Biden giving Israel weapons you get Trump bombing Iran and, IDK, sending troops to invade Gaza or some shit. Protest, then agitate, then VOTE, then protest, then agitate.
posted by caviar2d2 at 3:32 PM on February 13 [5 favorites]
I especially appreciated the callout to voting as A thing but not THE thing. I know so many other leftists who don’t want to vote because of Gaza or whatever (I feel ya) but it’s just a thing you must do. Otherwise Trump wins and trans people are in camps, and instead of Biden giving Israel weapons you get Trump bombing Iran and, IDK, sending troops to invade Gaza or some shit. Protest, then agitate, then VOTE, then protest, then agitate.
posted by caviar2d2 at 3:32 PM on February 13 [5 favorites]
Because Kamala Harris can not win a presidential election.
Agreed, but not for the external reasons you mention; she’s just not a good candidate, turns out she’s not a charismatic speaker at all and her work isn’t that great. (And I say that as a Californian who has voted for her in multiple offices and watched her work for years, and with much disappointment. I’d hoped she would be more effective, and a better option for future president.)
Stewart’s point about ‘just show us then,’ regarding Biden’s mental acuity, is going to gain traction. Show me the money, let us see that Biden.
posted by LooseFilter at 4:35 PM on February 13 [9 favorites]
Agreed, but not for the external reasons you mention; she’s just not a good candidate, turns out she’s not a charismatic speaker at all and her work isn’t that great. (And I say that as a Californian who has voted for her in multiple offices and watched her work for years, and with much disappointment. I’d hoped she would be more effective, and a better option for future president.)
Stewart’s point about ‘just show us then,’ regarding Biden’s mental acuity, is going to gain traction. Show me the money, let us see that Biden.
posted by LooseFilter at 4:35 PM on February 13 [9 favorites]
“demented racist sociopathic rapist criminal ” describes Biden as well.
Posting dark Brandon at the peak of a bloodbath of civilians in occupied Palestine is not going to win the youth vote.
posted by Yowser at 5:28 PM on February 13 [7 favorites]
Posting dark Brandon at the peak of a bloodbath of civilians in occupied Palestine is not going to win the youth vote.
posted by Yowser at 5:28 PM on February 13 [7 favorites]
Biden's old and not evil. Trump is old and mega evil
That’s related to how Biden reads older. Trump’s persona is crass 1980s businessman: Biff from Back to the Future II. Biden comes off as an older archetype associated with nostalgia: first-generation white collar dad, ice cream and lectures on sportsmanship and have the car back by 10. Closer to the dad from A Christmas Story or maybe The Wonder Years.
Hell of a way to pick a head of state.
posted by smelendez at 5:51 PM on February 13 [6 favorites]
That’s related to how Biden reads older. Trump’s persona is crass 1980s businessman: Biff from Back to the Future II. Biden comes off as an older archetype associated with nostalgia: first-generation white collar dad, ice cream and lectures on sportsmanship and have the car back by 10. Closer to the dad from A Christmas Story or maybe The Wonder Years.
Hell of a way to pick a head of state.
posted by smelendez at 5:51 PM on February 13 [6 favorites]
Something like half the voting public really feels like we're still living in a "both sides are pretty much the same" scenario and is happy to keep flipping the switch back and forth between D and R, just to register their nonspecific unhappiness with the state of the country.
I don't even know how you counter that. I laughed at some of Stewart's jokes last night, but I'm gonna need him to do more than another round of "These fucking guys, amirite?" if we're going to keep low information voters from blithely steering us off a fucking cliff.
Stewart is not some extension of the democratic party and he has zero responsibility to promote any ideas to "low information voters" who are simply seeing and hearing things with their own eyes that do not need any extra context.
They think both sides are pretty much the same because their lives stay pretty much the same regardless of who is president. Joe Biden is easy to make fun of because he acts like a bumbling senile old mummy on TV regardless of his actual health. If you don't want comedians making fun of you then do not behave in absurd ways and if you don't won't "low information voters" thinking "both sides are the same" then maybe give people a fucking pube's worth of effort differentiating yourself and enact policies that make material changes in peoples lives.
That’s related to how Biden reads older. Trump’s persona is crass 1980s businessman
Honestly he reads to me like a crass old borsht belt comedian who doesn't give a fuck, a guy who is not supposed to be president because he totally has no filter and makes all the libs seethe and melt down. That's his populist appeal; Biden does not have this, he is a bumbling old squinting mummy and his only selling point is that he's not Trump which puts him squarely in coin flip territory.
Democrats could have pushed someone awesome and immensley likeable like Gretchen Whitmer - or even 85% of bland ass dems from safe congressional seats who are *not* tired, squinting, bumbling old mummies - and we would not be in the position to get made fun of on TV by famous comedians who we thought were our friends. But no, dems always insist on making every election a dangerous coin flip, and frankly I think they enjoy it because it seems like there's a whole cottage industry around freaking out over the coin flip outcome. I'll continue to heckle them until they stop fucking around and support anyone else who chooses to do so as well.
posted by windbox at 6:05 PM on February 13 [8 favorites]
I don't even know how you counter that. I laughed at some of Stewart's jokes last night, but I'm gonna need him to do more than another round of "These fucking guys, amirite?" if we're going to keep low information voters from blithely steering us off a fucking cliff.
Stewart is not some extension of the democratic party and he has zero responsibility to promote any ideas to "low information voters" who are simply seeing and hearing things with their own eyes that do not need any extra context.
They think both sides are pretty much the same because their lives stay pretty much the same regardless of who is president. Joe Biden is easy to make fun of because he acts like a bumbling senile old mummy on TV regardless of his actual health. If you don't want comedians making fun of you then do not behave in absurd ways and if you don't won't "low information voters" thinking "both sides are the same" then maybe give people a fucking pube's worth of effort differentiating yourself and enact policies that make material changes in peoples lives.
That’s related to how Biden reads older. Trump’s persona is crass 1980s businessman
Honestly he reads to me like a crass old borsht belt comedian who doesn't give a fuck, a guy who is not supposed to be president because he totally has no filter and makes all the libs seethe and melt down. That's his populist appeal; Biden does not have this, he is a bumbling old squinting mummy and his only selling point is that he's not Trump which puts him squarely in coin flip territory.
Democrats could have pushed someone awesome and immensley likeable like Gretchen Whitmer - or even 85% of bland ass dems from safe congressional seats who are *not* tired, squinting, bumbling old mummies - and we would not be in the position to get made fun of on TV by famous comedians who we thought were our friends. But no, dems always insist on making every election a dangerous coin flip, and frankly I think they enjoy it because it seems like there's a whole cottage industry around freaking out over the coin flip outcome. I'll continue to heckle them until they stop fucking around and support anyone else who chooses to do so as well.
posted by windbox at 6:05 PM on February 13 [8 favorites]
“demented racist sociopathic rapist criminal ” describes Biden as well.
No it doesn't. Certainly not 'as well' as it does Donald Trump.
posted by Method Man at 6:13 PM on February 13 [13 favorites]
No it doesn't. Certainly not 'as well' as it does Donald Trump.
posted by Method Man at 6:13 PM on February 13 [13 favorites]
if you don't won't "low information voters" thinking "both sides are the same" then maybe give people a fucking pube's worth of effort differentiating yourself and enact policies that make material changes in peoples lives.
Like expanding overtime guarantees to boost the wages of millions of workers, or delivering hundreds of millions of dollars to schools to address mental health and gun violence, or taking unprecedented action on behalf of consumers to crack down on junk fees, or breaking up agricultural monopolies to support struggling small farmers, or penalizing college programs with a track record of trapping students in debt, or spearheading new international regulations on data privacy for tech firms, or modernizing healthcare regulations to ensure greater accessibility for medications like Adderall or T for transmen seeking gender-affirming care, or taking some of the biggest steps against union-busting that a government can take under current law, or imposing new restrictions to prevent airlines from fleecing consumers, or facilitating the availability of over-the-counter contraceptives to protect access at a time when Republicans and the courts are doing everything they can to restrict them, or... ?
And this is just me trying to think of the lesser-known actions the Biden administration has taken to concretely improve the lives of Americans'. I'm not including some of the more well-known accomplishments like the infrastructure bill, the climate bill, Ukraine, CHIPS, IRA, etc.
If you think that's 'not enough', that's fine-- although I think that's an astonishing amount of progress considering the guy came into office with historically narrow control of Congress, virtually 50-50, anyone who thought he was going to be able to pull off massive progressive changes was just setting themselves up for disappointment. But if you think those are things a Trump administration would have done, if you think this doesn't demonstrate 'a pube's worth of effort differentiating' Biden from Trump or Republicans, then I really don't know what to say.
posted by Method Man at 6:25 PM on February 13 [18 favorites]
Like expanding overtime guarantees to boost the wages of millions of workers, or delivering hundreds of millions of dollars to schools to address mental health and gun violence, or taking unprecedented action on behalf of consumers to crack down on junk fees, or breaking up agricultural monopolies to support struggling small farmers, or penalizing college programs with a track record of trapping students in debt, or spearheading new international regulations on data privacy for tech firms, or modernizing healthcare regulations to ensure greater accessibility for medications like Adderall or T for transmen seeking gender-affirming care, or taking some of the biggest steps against union-busting that a government can take under current law, or imposing new restrictions to prevent airlines from fleecing consumers, or facilitating the availability of over-the-counter contraceptives to protect access at a time when Republicans and the courts are doing everything they can to restrict them, or... ?
And this is just me trying to think of the lesser-known actions the Biden administration has taken to concretely improve the lives of Americans'. I'm not including some of the more well-known accomplishments like the infrastructure bill, the climate bill, Ukraine, CHIPS, IRA, etc.
If you think that's 'not enough', that's fine-- although I think that's an astonishing amount of progress considering the guy came into office with historically narrow control of Congress, virtually 50-50, anyone who thought he was going to be able to pull off massive progressive changes was just setting themselves up for disappointment. But if you think those are things a Trump administration would have done, if you think this doesn't demonstrate 'a pube's worth of effort differentiating' Biden from Trump or Republicans, then I really don't know what to say.
posted by Method Man at 6:25 PM on February 13 [18 favorites]
What’s this thread about again?
posted by LooseFilter at 6:53 PM on February 13 [5 favorites]
posted by LooseFilter at 6:53 PM on February 13 [5 favorites]
Biden's old and not evil. Trump is old and mega evil
I mean, Biden's *less* evil than Trump, but after Rafah, Gaza called and would like to disagree on the "not" part.
posted by corb at 6:58 PM on February 13 [5 favorites]
I mean, Biden's *less* evil than Trump, but after Rafah, Gaza called and would like to disagree on the "not" part.
posted by corb at 6:58 PM on February 13 [5 favorites]
My dad fully acknowledges that Trump is a child rapist and is still going to vote for him. Got that info in the same text argument discussing his Christian values. To him "no candidate really ever represents my views" and he somehow thinks Trump is an option, THE option. I need way more than softballs about how old they are and the "real work is on the ground everyday bullshit" doesn't fuckin work when you have someone intending to use extralegal pressures and processes to replace key elements of democracy and rule of law. Conservatives will vote for child rapists so long as it means their hateful agenda and beliefs will be tolerated and advanced through degrading the government.
posted by GoblinHoney at 7:29 PM on February 13 [4 favorites]
posted by GoblinHoney at 7:29 PM on February 13 [4 favorites]
I was looking forward to a mefi thread on Jon Stewart ... but reading these comments just triggered my trauma over the 2016 third party shit. Why can't more people see the agenda behind white privilege "humor"?
"Black Women Warned You." ... Black Women ... and Men
I'm Calling Bullshit on Jon Stewart
posted by Surfurrus at 7:58 PM on February 13 [3 favorites]
"Black Women Warned You." ... Black Women ... and Men
I'm Calling Bullshit on Jon Stewart
posted by Surfurrus at 7:58 PM on February 13 [3 favorites]
I simultaneously understand people who feel like any critical focus on Biden risks both-sidesing a situation involving the most unhinged presidential candidate in my lifetime, because I too raised an eyebrow when Stewart went there...
...and at the same time, that's kind of Stewart's point: that the party line of "nobody should criticize Biden given his opponent" basically precludes any conversation about Biden that isn't flat-out party-line propaganda. Which is a problem, because Biden is doing a dogshit job at presenting himself as anything other than a decrepit old man who's halfway rotted away.
And the thing is, I more-or-less don't think that Biden's especially mentally degraded. He strikes me as fairly sharp. Which is why it's absolutely baffling that he continuously avoids situations where he'd be able to talk with laypeople, and posts the world's most doddering TikToks. He could dispel people's doubts in him, if he's mentally well, so the fact that he isn't says a fucking lot about how little the Democrat establishment thinks it owes its voters.
And even if you think that Biden's been a relatively good president—which I also do, several harsh criticisms aside—the sheer entitled haughtiness of the Democrats fucking sucks. Especially since they simultaneously talk about Trump as a fascist end-of-America threat and go out of their way to sneer at anyone proposing the kinds of escalated actions that seem reasonable if this situation is, in fact, an emergency, while also holding weird fucking grudges against anything remotely resembling socialist thought. (And given that Feinstein was similarly haughty and turned out to have all-but-literal brainworms, can't you kinds forgive Biden's leftward critics for finding it plausible that he's got brainworms too?)
This isn't pro-media-coverage-of-Biden. The mainstream media trying to turn this into a horserace is reprehensible. But so is the Democrat establishment. And Joe is, at the very least, complicit in that too, in ways that make me very uncomfortable with the position that all criticism of Biden is just people falling into Trump's or Russia's playbook. Because that's not what's happening at all.
In any event, if you really don't think anything negative should be said about Biden this year, you probably won't find any conversation about Biden satisfactory, up to and including this thread. That's not a criticism—it's an understandable position to take, imo—but if your stance is that nobody should have a conversation about Biden's age, well, a conversation is happening, and no amount of political principle is gonna make that go away. Sorry for the sucky year you're about to have; hope it's some consolation that the rest of us hate it too.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 8:24 PM on February 13 [8 favorites]
...and at the same time, that's kind of Stewart's point: that the party line of "nobody should criticize Biden given his opponent" basically precludes any conversation about Biden that isn't flat-out party-line propaganda. Which is a problem, because Biden is doing a dogshit job at presenting himself as anything other than a decrepit old man who's halfway rotted away.
And the thing is, I more-or-less don't think that Biden's especially mentally degraded. He strikes me as fairly sharp. Which is why it's absolutely baffling that he continuously avoids situations where he'd be able to talk with laypeople, and posts the world's most doddering TikToks. He could dispel people's doubts in him, if he's mentally well, so the fact that he isn't says a fucking lot about how little the Democrat establishment thinks it owes its voters.
And even if you think that Biden's been a relatively good president—which I also do, several harsh criticisms aside—the sheer entitled haughtiness of the Democrats fucking sucks. Especially since they simultaneously talk about Trump as a fascist end-of-America threat and go out of their way to sneer at anyone proposing the kinds of escalated actions that seem reasonable if this situation is, in fact, an emergency, while also holding weird fucking grudges against anything remotely resembling socialist thought. (And given that Feinstein was similarly haughty and turned out to have all-but-literal brainworms, can't you kinds forgive Biden's leftward critics for finding it plausible that he's got brainworms too?)
This isn't pro-media-coverage-of-Biden. The mainstream media trying to turn this into a horserace is reprehensible. But so is the Democrat establishment. And Joe is, at the very least, complicit in that too, in ways that make me very uncomfortable with the position that all criticism of Biden is just people falling into Trump's or Russia's playbook. Because that's not what's happening at all.
In any event, if you really don't think anything negative should be said about Biden this year, you probably won't find any conversation about Biden satisfactory, up to and including this thread. That's not a criticism—it's an understandable position to take, imo—but if your stance is that nobody should have a conversation about Biden's age, well, a conversation is happening, and no amount of political principle is gonna make that go away. Sorry for the sucky year you're about to have; hope it's some consolation that the rest of us hate it too.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 8:24 PM on February 13 [8 favorites]
But if you think those are things a Trump administration would have done, if you think this doesn't demonstrate 'a pube's worth of effort differentiating' Biden from Trump or Republicans, then I really don't know what to say.
No but you're proving my point. You are listing a bunch of nice regulatory tweaks that have come to embody liberal politics as "the only realistic incremental improvements that can be made" that perhaps you and me and everyone here on Metafilter can recognize are by all accounts cool and good and an improvement to society, but very few people under the age of 43 making less than 50k per year would ever conceivably give a shit about in any way that would move them politically. But yeah you should explain to someone working the cash register at wal mart in Michigan that Biden is spearheading new international regulations on data privacy for tech firms I am sure they will be immediately registering to vote and rushing to the polls. That's always the election we have to deal with right, we have to convince a bunch of people who have felt zero improvement in their lives that actually important changes have been made, list the positive outcomes of the bi-partisan Infrastructure bill...blah blah blah. Coin flip. Get back to me when there is a giant breaking news headline of life changing democratic New Deal policy on the scale of republicans overturning Roe, where if anything they may have overplayed their hand they changed so many lives (except negatively).
I'm Calling Bullshit on Jon Stewart
Wow this is a really stupid video; it's not that Biden is "too old" just because he's 81, it's because he literally looks like a pile of shit and sounds like a person who's brain is melting before our eyes when he speaks, infrastructure bill be damned. Stewart simply outlines the variety of ways he is making an ass of himself, which he is. I don't get why people are trying to pretend otherwise, it's simply the reality. He looks like shit and sounds horrible! Sorry! That's what we've chosen to go with so now we have to deal with it, now he gets made fun of and if we all have to sweat bullets about it but may as well have a nervous laugh now and then in the sheer darkness and absurdity of it all - I will!
but if your stance is that nobody should have a conversation about Biden's age, well, a conversation is happening, and no amount of political principle is gonna make that go away. Sorry for the sucky year you're about to have; hope it's some consolation that the rest of us hate it too
Exxxactly. It sucks, it really does! I choose to find humor in it all...sorry!
posted by windbox at 8:31 PM on February 13 [7 favorites]
No but you're proving my point. You are listing a bunch of nice regulatory tweaks that have come to embody liberal politics as "the only realistic incremental improvements that can be made" that perhaps you and me and everyone here on Metafilter can recognize are by all accounts cool and good and an improvement to society, but very few people under the age of 43 making less than 50k per year would ever conceivably give a shit about in any way that would move them politically. But yeah you should explain to someone working the cash register at wal mart in Michigan that Biden is spearheading new international regulations on data privacy for tech firms I am sure they will be immediately registering to vote and rushing to the polls. That's always the election we have to deal with right, we have to convince a bunch of people who have felt zero improvement in their lives that actually important changes have been made, list the positive outcomes of the bi-partisan Infrastructure bill...blah blah blah. Coin flip. Get back to me when there is a giant breaking news headline of life changing democratic New Deal policy on the scale of republicans overturning Roe, where if anything they may have overplayed their hand they changed so many lives (except negatively).
I'm Calling Bullshit on Jon Stewart
Wow this is a really stupid video; it's not that Biden is "too old" just because he's 81, it's because he literally looks like a pile of shit and sounds like a person who's brain is melting before our eyes when he speaks, infrastructure bill be damned. Stewart simply outlines the variety of ways he is making an ass of himself, which he is. I don't get why people are trying to pretend otherwise, it's simply the reality. He looks like shit and sounds horrible! Sorry! That's what we've chosen to go with so now we have to deal with it, now he gets made fun of and if we all have to sweat bullets about it but may as well have a nervous laugh now and then in the sheer darkness and absurdity of it all - I will!
but if your stance is that nobody should have a conversation about Biden's age, well, a conversation is happening, and no amount of political principle is gonna make that go away. Sorry for the sucky year you're about to have; hope it's some consolation that the rest of us hate it too
Exxxactly. It sucks, it really does! I choose to find humor in it all...sorry!
posted by windbox at 8:31 PM on February 13 [7 favorites]
No but you're proving my point. You are listing a bunch of nice regulatory tweaks that have come to embody liberal politics as "the only realistic incremental improvements that can be made" that perhaps you and me and everyone here on Metafilter can recognize are by all accounts cool and good and an improvement to society, but very few people under the age of 43 making less than 50k per year would ever conceivably give a shit about in any way that would move them politically. But yeah you should explain to someone working the cash register at wal mart in Michigan that Biden is spearheading new international regulations on data privacy for tech firms I am sure they will be immediately registering to vote and rushing to the polls. That's always the election we have to deal with right, we have to convince a bunch of people who have felt zero improvement in their lives that actually important changes have been made, list the positive outcomes of the bi-partisan Infrastructure bill...blah blah blah. Coin flip. Get back to me when there is a giant breaking news headline of life changing democratic New Deal policy on the scale of republicans overturning Roe, where if anything they may have overplayed their hand they changed so many lives (except negatively).
I think you're moving the goalposts. Your original point seems to be that Democrats don't put in any effort to make any improvement in people's lives or differentiate themselves from Republicans. But when presented with a whole bunch of things that do improve people's lives in various ways (again, not even including the most significant ones, or the ways Democrats would improve people's lives just by not doing the insanely horrid things Republicans would do) your point changes to 'yeah, but people don't know/understand those' which is... what the poster you were responding to was saying, that low-information voters will assume 'both sides' are the same when they're tangibly not. On top of the fact, of course, that people's perception of how good their lives are is constantly swayed by politics. Republicans/Republican-leaning voters will convince themselves things are much wore than they actually are if a Democrat is in charge. A lot of generally unaffiliated voters will tend to be harder on whoever happens to be in charge just because they're in charge, even if the economy and quality of life are objectively improving. That doesn't exactly make it easier.
As for a life-changing Democratic New Deal policy, again, Biden came into this with a 50-50 Congress and has been dealing for the last year with a House that would sooner detonate the entire country than give him a win. FDR had a 59-36 Senate and a 313-217 House when he launched his New Deal programs-- and that was the worst majority he had during the New Deal period. Anybody who saw the congressional results in 2020 and thought Biden was going to be able to pull off massive progressive reforms was lying to themselves. Again, it is a testament to his leadership and that of congressional Democrats that they were able to accomplish what they did given the incredibly narrow margins they had. I don't know what more you want them to do to 'differentiate' themselves from Republicans.
posted by Method Man at 9:30 PM on February 13 [10 favorites]
I think you're moving the goalposts. Your original point seems to be that Democrats don't put in any effort to make any improvement in people's lives or differentiate themselves from Republicans. But when presented with a whole bunch of things that do improve people's lives in various ways (again, not even including the most significant ones, or the ways Democrats would improve people's lives just by not doing the insanely horrid things Republicans would do) your point changes to 'yeah, but people don't know/understand those' which is... what the poster you were responding to was saying, that low-information voters will assume 'both sides' are the same when they're tangibly not. On top of the fact, of course, that people's perception of how good their lives are is constantly swayed by politics. Republicans/Republican-leaning voters will convince themselves things are much wore than they actually are if a Democrat is in charge. A lot of generally unaffiliated voters will tend to be harder on whoever happens to be in charge just because they're in charge, even if the economy and quality of life are objectively improving. That doesn't exactly make it easier.
As for a life-changing Democratic New Deal policy, again, Biden came into this with a 50-50 Congress and has been dealing for the last year with a House that would sooner detonate the entire country than give him a win. FDR had a 59-36 Senate and a 313-217 House when he launched his New Deal programs-- and that was the worst majority he had during the New Deal period. Anybody who saw the congressional results in 2020 and thought Biden was going to be able to pull off massive progressive reforms was lying to themselves. Again, it is a testament to his leadership and that of congressional Democrats that they were able to accomplish what they did given the incredibly narrow margins they had. I don't know what more you want them to do to 'differentiate' themselves from Republicans.
posted by Method Man at 9:30 PM on February 13 [10 favorites]
He could dispel people's doubts in him, if he's mentally well, so the fact that he isn't says a fucking lot about how little the Democrat establishment thinks it owes its voters.
It's because of the same reason President Obama didn't immediately fax every media org a copy of his birth certificate the second the Birther movement got started. Once you get on the treadmill of satisfying absurd demands, you can never get off. Anyone who has heard Trump speak in the last 10 years cannot both complain about Biden's mental state and also be taken as a serious person. So, there is no need to go through the effort of convincing to believe their own goddamn eyes and ears.
Sorry for the sucky year you're about to have
That's the thing: Either way, it's not going to suck for me. Same for a lot the "Democrat Establishment" types you are shitting on in your comment, beyond the they might have some "our guy lost boo hoo" feelings afterwards. The thing about being close to the center is that things tend to work out.
Ironically, however, it's sure might suck for a whole of people that are going to vote of Jill Stein or whatever because Biden won't take a turn on Celebrity Jeopardy.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 10:26 PM on February 13 [5 favorites]
It's because of the same reason President Obama didn't immediately fax every media org a copy of his birth certificate the second the Birther movement got started. Once you get on the treadmill of satisfying absurd demands, you can never get off. Anyone who has heard Trump speak in the last 10 years cannot both complain about Biden's mental state and also be taken as a serious person. So, there is no need to go through the effort of convincing to believe their own goddamn eyes and ears.
Sorry for the sucky year you're about to have
That's the thing: Either way, it's not going to suck for me. Same for a lot the "Democrat Establishment" types you are shitting on in your comment, beyond the they might have some "our guy lost boo hoo" feelings afterwards. The thing about being close to the center is that things tend to work out.
Ironically, however, it's sure might suck for a whole of people that are going to vote of Jill Stein or whatever because Biden won't take a turn on Celebrity Jeopardy.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 10:26 PM on February 13 [5 favorites]
Y’all, this post is clearly only about 2% about the show at this point, 98% about U.S. Politics. Please add a USPolitics tag.
posted by cupcakeninja at 3:32 AM on February 14 [4 favorites]
posted by cupcakeninja at 3:32 AM on February 14 [4 favorites]
That's the thing: Either way, it's not going to suck for me. Same for a lot the "Democrat Establishment" types you are shitting on in your comment, beyond the they might have some "our guy lost boo hoo" feelings afterwards. The thing about being close to the center is that things tend to work out.
Having enough privilege and money to survive the resulting horror probably helps.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 3:44 AM on February 14 [3 favorites]
Having enough privilege and money to survive the resulting horror probably helps.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 3:44 AM on February 14 [3 favorites]
Anybody who saw the congressional results in 2020 and thought Biden was going to be able to pull off massive progressive reforms was lying to themselves.
Biden could have made even the tiniest effort to vocally support abolishing the filibuster and/or expanding the Supreme Court.
He did not, because "nothing will fundamentally change" is his life philosophy. He's not even particularly pro-choice (as he himself just affirmed this month!)...he simply doesn't view the dangers posed by the Republican party with the urgency they require. He still views Republicans as his friends.
posted by Gadarene at 4:24 AM on February 14 [2 favorites]
Biden could have made even the tiniest effort to vocally support abolishing the filibuster and/or expanding the Supreme Court.
He did not, because "nothing will fundamentally change" is his life philosophy. He's not even particularly pro-choice (as he himself just affirmed this month!)...he simply doesn't view the dangers posed by the Republican party with the urgency they require. He still views Republicans as his friends.
posted by Gadarene at 4:24 AM on February 14 [2 favorites]
Did we disagree that Jon Stewart would be a bad replacement candidate? I thought that was a good idea.
posted by Snowishberlin at 5:14 AM on February 14 [1 favorite]
posted by Snowishberlin at 5:14 AM on February 14 [1 favorite]
Biden could have made even the tiniest effort to vocally support abolishing the filibuster and/or expanding the Supreme Court.
He did push to abolish the filibuster to protect abortion rights. It didn't pan out because, again, he had a 50-50 Senate and one of the 50 is Joe Manchin, who is blithely ignorant about the reality of American politics today and still thinks Democrats need to be more civil with their 'Republican friends.' Do you really think taking it ten steps further and trying to abolish the filibuster altogether would have gone any better?
he simply doesn't view the dangers posed by the Republican party with the urgency they require. He still views Republicans as his friends.
This hasn't been true since... well, probably before he began his presidency, but certainly since it started. People assume this is still the case because Biden has a long-standing reputation for bipartisanship and cross-aisle cordiality, and he still occasionally traffics in the rhetoric of bipartisanship because Americans like it. But Biden has pretty much been a-okay with passing all his legislative goals with zero Republican support. He has not watered down anything in a bid to get Republican votes (he's only ever had to water them down to get votes from his own party). And he has been unafraid to blast MAGA Republicans and communicate to the public the threat of a second Trump term-- which invariably gets him excoriated by the NYTs and WSJs of the world for his incivility. Meanwhile, Trump gets to be as vicious, petty, uncivil, and bigoted as he wants with minimal pushback from the media-- and at the same time, Biden gets attacked from the left for being 'chummy' with Republicans when he really hasn't been from basically the start of his administration. He can't win.
posted by Method Man at 8:26 AM on February 14 [4 favorites]
He did push to abolish the filibuster to protect abortion rights. It didn't pan out because, again, he had a 50-50 Senate and one of the 50 is Joe Manchin, who is blithely ignorant about the reality of American politics today and still thinks Democrats need to be more civil with their 'Republican friends.' Do you really think taking it ten steps further and trying to abolish the filibuster altogether would have gone any better?
he simply doesn't view the dangers posed by the Republican party with the urgency they require. He still views Republicans as his friends.
This hasn't been true since... well, probably before he began his presidency, but certainly since it started. People assume this is still the case because Biden has a long-standing reputation for bipartisanship and cross-aisle cordiality, and he still occasionally traffics in the rhetoric of bipartisanship because Americans like it. But Biden has pretty much been a-okay with passing all his legislative goals with zero Republican support. He has not watered down anything in a bid to get Republican votes (he's only ever had to water them down to get votes from his own party). And he has been unafraid to blast MAGA Republicans and communicate to the public the threat of a second Trump term-- which invariably gets him excoriated by the NYTs and WSJs of the world for his incivility. Meanwhile, Trump gets to be as vicious, petty, uncivil, and bigoted as he wants with minimal pushback from the media-- and at the same time, Biden gets attacked from the left for being 'chummy' with Republicans when he really hasn't been from basically the start of his administration. He can't win.
posted by Method Man at 8:26 AM on February 14 [4 favorites]
He has not watered down anything in a bid to get Republican votes (he's only ever had to water them down to get votes from his own party).
Oh? That border bill that was basically word for word what republicans want was entirely his work then?
One of the arguments routinely brought up in favor of voting for Biden in 2020 was his bipartisan record and his ability to work across the aisle to get things done. None of that has remotely panned out.
posted by graventy at 8:36 AM on February 14 [2 favorites]
Oh? That border bill that was basically word for word what republicans want was entirely his work then?
One of the arguments routinely brought up in favor of voting for Biden in 2020 was his bipartisan record and his ability to work across the aisle to get things done. None of that has remotely panned out.
posted by graventy at 8:36 AM on February 14 [2 favorites]
The bill that Republicans then promptly sank because it was not, in fact, word for word what they want?
The IRA was passed solely with Democratic votes. The American Rescue Plan was passed solely with Democratic votes. His push for rules changes on voting rights and abortion had no cross-aisle support and he didn't bother trying to get it. On several bills he would have gone bigger-- it was Democrats who prevented him from doing so, not quixotic efforts on his part to win Republican support a la Obama in 2009.
And he has had bipartisan wins, for that matter. The infrastructure deal and the negotiations to avoid a debt ceiling crisis come to mind. Otherwise, he has only ever watered down legislation to get Republican votes when that legislation couldn't be passed through reconciliation or a simple majority-- at which point the choice was basically a watered down bill or no bill at all.
posted by Method Man at 8:47 AM on February 14 [6 favorites]
The IRA was passed solely with Democratic votes. The American Rescue Plan was passed solely with Democratic votes. His push for rules changes on voting rights and abortion had no cross-aisle support and he didn't bother trying to get it. On several bills he would have gone bigger-- it was Democrats who prevented him from doing so, not quixotic efforts on his part to win Republican support a la Obama in 2009.
And he has had bipartisan wins, for that matter. The infrastructure deal and the negotiations to avoid a debt ceiling crisis come to mind. Otherwise, he has only ever watered down legislation to get Republican votes when that legislation couldn't be passed through reconciliation or a simple majority-- at which point the choice was basically a watered down bill or no bill at all.
posted by Method Man at 8:47 AM on February 14 [6 favorites]
I'm disappointed because even with such a slim majority coming out of 2020, I was hopeful the Democrats would a) remain united and b) use the pandemic as an excuse a legitimate reason to engage in the sort of maximalist legislating that Republicans do all the time with slim majorities.
Apart from the lack of a ceasefire, you can't fault Biden for not having a progressive agenda, because I honestly believe he and the majority of Democrats were ready (remember all those hints pre-Inauguration Day that he was reading FDR's biography?) but Manchin and Sinema screwed everyone over with their grandstanding, both by watering down legislation and by robbing the administration of the moment. They could have maintained unity by quietly finding some sort of acceptable compromise, but instead they deliberately torpedoed all the messaging by very publicly acting in bad faith.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:02 AM on February 14 [2 favorites]
Apart from the lack of a ceasefire, you can't fault Biden for not having a progressive agenda, because I honestly believe he and the majority of Democrats were ready (remember all those hints pre-Inauguration Day that he was reading FDR's biography?) but Manchin and Sinema screwed everyone over with their grandstanding, both by watering down legislation and by robbing the administration of the moment. They could have maintained unity by quietly finding some sort of acceptable compromise, but instead they deliberately torpedoed all the messaging by very publicly acting in bad faith.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:02 AM on February 14 [2 favorites]
There is absolutely no fucking excuse for dropping the expanded child tax credit. Getting it included in the pandemic relief bill as a "temporary" benefit was a masterstroke of the kind of incremental progress that centrist-Democrats are always claiming is their jam. It's exactly the kind of thing Republicans are absolutely terrified of because they have nothing to counter it with.
And because Manchin threw a tantrum and couldn't look past his own racist thoughts about welfare queens buying drugs to see what absolute political gold it would have been to take credit for giving people money and putting it directly in their bank accounts, Democrats blew the program up.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:16 AM on February 14 [2 favorites]
And because Manchin threw a tantrum and couldn't look past his own racist thoughts about welfare queens buying drugs to see what absolute political gold it would have been to take credit for giving people money and putting it directly in their bank accounts, Democrats blew the program up.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:16 AM on February 14 [2 favorites]
* climbs atop stepladder *
RIGHT THEN!
Would the people who want to discuss Biden v. anyone independently of Jon Stewart and/or THE DAILY SHOW please start a MeTa or a separate post or go to MeFi Chat or something, so those of us who want to discuss Jon Stewart and/or THE DAILY SHOW can do so?
I'll give y'all a topic, even: at some point in September, Jon could feature some people affected by the Zadroga bill as guests. Discuss the likelihood.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:27 AM on February 14 [2 favorites]
RIGHT THEN!
Would the people who want to discuss Biden v. anyone independently of Jon Stewart and/or THE DAILY SHOW please start a MeTa or a separate post or go to MeFi Chat or something, so those of us who want to discuss Jon Stewart and/or THE DAILY SHOW can do so?
I'll give y'all a topic, even: at some point in September, Jon could feature some people affected by the Zadroga bill as guests. Discuss the likelihood.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:27 AM on February 14 [2 favorites]
If the moderators aren’t moderating, though…are all threads just open topic now?
(Flagging hasn’t worked, and I’d take it to metatalk but they’re not active there, either.)
posted by LooseFilter at 10:34 AM on February 14
(Flagging hasn’t worked, and I’d take it to metatalk but they’re not active there, either.)
posted by LooseFilter at 10:34 AM on February 14
Mod note: One deleted. Folks... please just email us or flag if there's an issue. There was a moderation gap but now I'm online. Thanks.
posted by travelingthyme (staff) at 3:13 PM on February 14
posted by travelingthyme (staff) at 3:13 PM on February 14
He did push to abolish the filibuster to protect abortion rights. It didn't pan out because, again, he had a 50-50 Senate and one of the 50 is Joe Manchin, who is blithely ignorant about the reality of American politics today and still thinks Democrats need to be more civil with their 'Republican friends.' Do you really think taking it ten steps further and trying to abolish the filibuster altogether would have gone any better?
We can agree to disagree about every facet of this paragraph, and I won't take the derail any further.
posted by Gadarene at 3:24 PM on February 14 [1 favorite]
We can agree to disagree about every facet of this paragraph, and I won't take the derail any further.
posted by Gadarene at 3:24 PM on February 14 [1 favorite]
My guess, or hope perhaps, is that this opening salvo by Stewart was calculated to be neutral enough not to immediately give fodder to those at FauxNews who were glued to the set watching, hoping for usable content. He's got forever until november to unload on Trump and all things Fox, but this sets him up as clearly aware that the Dems have issues too, just not issues like a Fascist- proto-dictator-nato destroying Putin Puppet that the Reps are repping.
I love Seth Meyers and A Closer Look, but the writing for Stewart is miles more incisive and a welcome return.
posted by OHenryPacey at 3:27 PM on February 14 [1 favorite]
I love Seth Meyers and A Closer Look, but the writing for Stewart is miles more incisive and a welcome return.
posted by OHenryPacey at 3:27 PM on February 14 [1 favorite]
Man, Hasan Minhaj should have had this show, right? Rough.
posted by eustatic at 4:49 PM on February 14 [1 favorite]
posted by eustatic at 4:49 PM on February 14 [1 favorite]
Trump’s persona is crass 1980s businessman: Biff from Back to the Future II.
‘Back to the Future’ Writer: Biff Is Donald Trump
posted by kirkaracha at 7:11 PM on February 14 [2 favorites]
‘Back to the Future’ Writer: Biff Is Donald Trump
posted by kirkaracha at 7:11 PM on February 14 [2 favorites]
> but I'm gonna need him to do more than another round of "These fucking guys, amirite?"
Oh my god, THIS. This is why I stopped watching the video well before the end, I could not fucking take it, I just cannot.
Like, okay, from this thread I've learned that his point was apparently to say that elections aren't what matter most and the work of democracy happens every single day a little bit at a time through the efforts of everyone all the time. But the way to make that point isn't to say, throughout 95% of your bit, that both sides suck and elections don't matter. Jesus fucking Christ, Jon. Elections matter. It absolutely fucking matters whether we elect this guy vs. that guy. And also yes putting in a little bit of work from everyone every day all the time matters absolutely yes but ELECTIONS FUCKING MATTER JON. Just shut your fucking face with your stupid "both sides suck who cares" schtick.
This is like when South Park tried to pretend that there was little to choose in an election between a douchebag and a turd sandwich but jesus fucking christ you guys a douchebag is obviously phenomenal in comparison? Like, duh?? Choose a clean asshole, not the disgusting lunch that will poison you. The rhetorical point Jon Steward tried to make is mind blowingly stupid and wrong.
posted by MiraK at 2:41 PM on February 20 [3 favorites]
Oh my god, THIS. This is why I stopped watching the video well before the end, I could not fucking take it, I just cannot.
Like, okay, from this thread I've learned that his point was apparently to say that elections aren't what matter most and the work of democracy happens every single day a little bit at a time through the efforts of everyone all the time. But the way to make that point isn't to say, throughout 95% of your bit, that both sides suck and elections don't matter. Jesus fucking Christ, Jon. Elections matter. It absolutely fucking matters whether we elect this guy vs. that guy. And also yes putting in a little bit of work from everyone every day all the time matters absolutely yes but ELECTIONS FUCKING MATTER JON. Just shut your fucking face with your stupid "both sides suck who cares" schtick.
This is like when South Park tried to pretend that there was little to choose in an election between a douchebag and a turd sandwich but jesus fucking christ you guys a douchebag is obviously phenomenal in comparison? Like, duh?? Choose a clean asshole, not the disgusting lunch that will poison you. The rhetorical point Jon Steward tried to make is mind blowingly stupid and wrong.
posted by MiraK at 2:41 PM on February 20 [3 favorites]
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posted by ovvl at 8:29 PM on February 12 [5 favorites]