Sometimes a sandworm is just a sandworm
March 1, 2024 3:11 PM Subscribe
What do King Arthur, Luke Skywalker, Harry Potter, Aragorn and Paul Atreides have in common? Call it Magic Dick Theory. (Although on closer inspection, maybe not Paul so much.) The Ringer offers up a "psychoanalytic reading of canonical chosen-one narratives in fantasy and science fiction."
Metafilter: He's not the chosen one. He's a goldendoodle.
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 3:23 PM on March 1 [13 favorites]
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 3:23 PM on March 1 [13 favorites]
No! He's a very naughty boy!
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 3:30 PM on March 1 [20 favorites]
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 3:30 PM on March 1 [20 favorites]
Fear is overall not great.
What a catchy phrase! Herbert really missed out by not including it in the original Litany.
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:40 PM on March 1 [12 favorites]
What a catchy phrase! Herbert really missed out by not including it in the original Litany.
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:40 PM on March 1 [12 favorites]
This feels like something I’d talk about in a dorm room after smoking that very righteous stuff we got from a friend’s older brother who totally isn’t a drug dealer he just buys some extra stuff to have for his friends.
posted by drewbage1847 at 3:41 PM on March 1 [10 favorites]
posted by drewbage1847 at 3:41 PM on March 1 [10 favorites]
Stolen from a meme: fear is la petite mort.
Paul is a goldendoodle is the best possible commentary on Dune.
posted by solotoro at 3:50 PM on March 1 [5 favorites]
Paul is a goldendoodle is the best possible commentary on Dune.
posted by solotoro at 3:50 PM on March 1 [5 favorites]
> something I’d talk about in a dorm room after smoking that very righteous stuff we got from a friend’s older brother
the spice must flow
posted by glonous keming at 3:53 PM on March 1 [9 favorites]
the spice must flow
posted by glonous keming at 3:53 PM on March 1 [9 favorites]
The author spends a bit of time going on about Harry Potter and wands and broomsticks as being obvious sexual metaphors but I dunno seems a stretch to me to call these things phallic symbols. I mean The Wizarding World is arguably just derivative of Jill Murphy's Worst Witch series, which in place of Harry has the female protagonist Mildred Hubble, and takes place in an all girls school, with nary a boy to be found. And there are still wands and so forth, but clearly there's absolutely no sexual metaphor at all in a simple story about a girl who hasn't yet learnt to balance her kitty properly on a hard broomstick.
posted by xigxag at 4:03 PM on March 1 [27 favorites]
posted by xigxag at 4:03 PM on March 1 [27 favorites]
balance her kitty properly on a hard broomstick.
Is "phrasing" still a thing?
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:11 PM on March 1 [16 favorites]
Is "phrasing" still a thing?
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:11 PM on March 1 [16 favorites]
… and to say nothing of Miss Hardbroom.
posted by house-goblin at 4:11 PM on March 1 [3 favorites]
posted by house-goblin at 4:11 PM on March 1 [3 favorites]
I watched a movie review of Dune Part II today that went into detail about how the reviewer didn't think that Paul was a chosen one but rather stumbled into the narrative of being A Chosen One and used it as his revenge plot. And that his being so close to actually being The Chosen One meant that he was able to pervert something that should have been used for one purpose into something more personal and petty. Basically misusing the role in a ton of ways.
I don't know if I'm well enough versed in the details of the story at this point, and certainly have not seen the film yet, but this is an interesting interpretation of Paul, and makes sense. On some level, describing Paul's role in this way means that Leto II's entire reign should never have happened and is probably a bad thing in the Universe. I mean, I guess, maybe?
posted by hippybear at 4:17 PM on March 1 [3 favorites]
I don't know if I'm well enough versed in the details of the story at this point, and certainly have not seen the film yet, but this is an interesting interpretation of Paul, and makes sense. On some level, describing Paul's role in this way means that Leto II's entire reign should never have happened and is probably a bad thing in the Universe. I mean, I guess, maybe?
posted by hippybear at 4:17 PM on March 1 [3 favorites]
So, I checked out after about ten paragraphs -- I read a lot of cracked.com articles in the '00s, I think I pretty much got where this was going -- so maybe he already said it, but aren't these just coming of age stories (as it were?). Arriving at sexual maturity is certainly part of the coming of age story, but it sounds like he's focusing on that part because swords and magic wands are kind of phallic. I'm not saying that the magic of boners is not relevant, but I think it's kind of a reductive take.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:22 PM on March 1 [1 favorite]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:22 PM on March 1 [1 favorite]
Now I also want to read the same author exploring "cake narratives" a little more. I remember seeing the 2008 Iron Man, and having a moment of "ewww" when I realized some of the story elements that I was reacting positively to.
Which, come to think of it, I'd had similar reactions to previously in some of Herbert's work...
posted by straw at 4:24 PM on March 1 [3 favorites]
Which, come to think of it, I'd had similar reactions to previously in some of Herbert's work...
posted by straw at 4:24 PM on March 1 [3 favorites]
I guess Boeing is making moves to buy back their previously spun-off main body assembly company to put it under their direct control. I wonder if they were ordered to do this by the FAA.
posted by hippybear at 4:25 PM on March 1 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 4:25 PM on March 1 [1 favorite]
I guess Boeing is making moves to buy back their previously spun-off main body assembly company to put it under their direct control. I wonder if they were ordered to do this by the FAA.
a clever plan, but for it to succeed the Guild must not find out.
posted by Dr. Twist at 4:31 PM on March 1 [17 favorites]
a clever plan, but for it to succeed the Guild must not find out.
posted by Dr. Twist at 4:31 PM on March 1 [17 favorites]
I guess Boeing is making moves to buy back their previously spun-off main body assembly company to put it under their direct control. I wonder if they were ordered to do this by the FAA.
The NeoMax must fly
posted by chavenet at 4:58 PM on March 1 [4 favorites]
The NeoMax must fly
posted by chavenet at 4:58 PM on March 1 [4 favorites]
A friend of mine has a saying: “a phallic symbol is anything that’s longer than it is wide.” This insight allows me to reject all “intellectual” articles like this one easily. In my browser, the article is longer than it is wide.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 5:15 PM on March 1 [16 favorites]
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 5:15 PM on March 1 [16 favorites]
Anything wider than it is long, however, need only be turned sideways to become a phallic symbol.
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 5:24 PM on March 1 [7 favorites]
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 5:24 PM on March 1 [7 favorites]
A cake narrative is a story that critiques a thing while also offering you all the pleasures of that thingYep, that bit’s good.
posted by clew at 5:26 PM on March 1 [5 favorites]
A cake narrative is a story that critiques a thing while also offering you all the pleasures of that thing
The first rule of Fight Club is…
posted by Ryvar at 5:32 PM on March 1 [3 favorites]
The first rule of Fight Club is…
posted by Ryvar at 5:32 PM on March 1 [3 favorites]
A cake narrative is a story that critiques a thing while also offering you all the pleasures of that thing
"There is no such thing as an anti-war film"
posted by saturday_morning at 5:36 PM on March 1 [17 favorites]
"There is no such thing as an anti-war film"
posted by saturday_morning at 5:36 PM on March 1 [17 favorites]
Arriving at sexual maturity is certainly part of the coming of age story
Coming of age. amirite?
posted by kirkaracha at 5:49 PM on March 1 [1 favorite]
Coming of age. amirite?
posted by kirkaracha at 5:49 PM on March 1 [1 favorite]
Thought same!
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:53 PM on March 1 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:53 PM on March 1 [1 favorite]
Interestingly, the author ignores the impotent masculine hierarchy represented by the Landsraad, and that the real political power in the universe is the sisterhood. Also not considered is that before Paul, the closest the sisterhood had come to creating a Kwisatz Haderach, was a genetic eunuch. That Paul's greatest feat was to do something that before him only women could do, and that the Kwisatz Haderach was intended to be a tool of the sisterhood. The reason they lose control is because of the choices Jessica makes.
That's not even getting into Leto II's transformation causes him to lose his genitals. That the only thing that can destroy him is a woman, and the thing he creates to save humanity, also a woman.
posted by betaray at 6:17 PM on March 1 [8 favorites]
That's not even getting into Leto II's transformation causes him to lose his genitals. That the only thing that can destroy him is a woman, and the thing he creates to save humanity, also a woman.
posted by betaray at 6:17 PM on March 1 [8 favorites]
Paul is a goldendoodle is the best possible commentary on Dune.
A playwright/English professor acquaintance of mine posted this on Facebook and made me, a Timmy stan, start laughing aloud in a crowded B52 bus this evening:
"no special effects budget, no matter how large, can hide the truth that Timothée Chalamet runs like a dork. Chasing a giant sand worm on Arrakis? He still looks like he’s running late to his postmodernism seminar at Amherst."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:54 PM on March 1 [15 favorites]
A playwright/English professor acquaintance of mine posted this on Facebook and made me, a Timmy stan, start laughing aloud in a crowded B52 bus this evening:
"no special effects budget, no matter how large, can hide the truth that Timothée Chalamet runs like a dork. Chasing a giant sand worm on Arrakis? He still looks like he’s running late to his postmodernism seminar at Amherst."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:54 PM on March 1 [15 favorites]
Hmmm, I think to myself, surely there must be some narratives in which the Chosen One wields a potent yonic symbol rather than a phallic symbol?
Oh, I know! In Lord of the Rings, the actual hero, Frodo, gets… a ring! That's nice and yonic! (Let's just ignore Sting for now.)
Frodo gets a ring that corrupted multiple kingdoms…which you use by penetrating it with your member (finger)…and it corrupts the user and eventually makes them subhuman…and it has to be destroyed to save the realm…and that can only happen once the penetrating member is bitten off.
Okay, I guess it's not an outlier after all! Carry on!
posted by ejs at 8:08 PM on March 1 [9 favorites]
Oh, I know! In Lord of the Rings, the actual hero, Frodo, gets… a ring! That's nice and yonic! (Let's just ignore Sting for now.)
Frodo gets a ring that corrupted multiple kingdoms…which you use by penetrating it with your member (finger)…and it corrupts the user and eventually makes them subhuman…and it has to be destroyed to save the realm…and that can only happen once the penetrating member is bitten off.
Okay, I guess it's not an outlier after all! Carry on!
posted by ejs at 8:08 PM on March 1 [9 favorites]
Let's just ignore Sting for now
I generally have, since the Police broke up.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:23 PM on March 1 [11 favorites]
I generally have, since the Police broke up.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:23 PM on March 1 [11 favorites]
ravenous hell-schlong
I laughed way harder than I had any right to at this phrase.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 8:35 PM on March 1 [1 favorite]
I laughed way harder than I had any right to at this phrase.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 8:35 PM on March 1 [1 favorite]
Hmmm, I think to myself, surely there must be some narratives in which the Chosen One wields a potent yonic symbol rather than a phallic symbol?
It could be argued that's the Eye of Sauron.
posted by betweenthebars at 8:55 PM on March 1 [4 favorites]
It could be argued that's the Eye of Sauron.
posted by betweenthebars at 8:55 PM on March 1 [4 favorites]
that the real political power in the universe is the sisterhood
About that, don't know if I entirely agree. Maybe kinda sorta in a Herbertian 60s sci-fi bro understanding of women's empowerment, that is, basically women using their incredible powers toeasily seize control of the galaxy sex up powerful men behind the scenes. Notice how there was not even a cursory nod to the idea that Irulan could just inherit the mantle of empire herself. And in a subsequent Dune book, one woman who has the temerity to think she has the balls to lead ends up going full "Dr. Janice Lester" (another icon of 60s era female ambition) and devolving into a batshit crazy shrew.
Anything wider than it is long, however, need only be turned sideways to become a phallic symbol.
As it happens, Dune has a surfeit of both phallic symbols and --turns sideways -- caliph symbols.
posted by xigxag at 9:06 PM on March 1 [7 favorites]
About that, don't know if I entirely agree. Maybe kinda sorta in a Herbertian 60s sci-fi bro understanding of women's empowerment, that is, basically women using their incredible powers to
Anything wider than it is long, however, need only be turned sideways to become a phallic symbol.
As it happens, Dune has a surfeit of both phallic symbols and --turns sideways -- caliph symbols.
posted by xigxag at 9:06 PM on March 1 [7 favorites]
We must totally critique all cake narratives on Arrakis. The Guild and the entire Universe depends on cake. He who can critique a thing, controls a thing.
posted by Phssthpok at 9:41 PM on March 1 [1 favorite]
posted by Phssthpok at 9:41 PM on March 1 [1 favorite]
least not forget the Arkenstone {earcnanstan} that magic fist sized jewel that rested until some wizard sets up a heist crew. The desire and power of such a stone.
"sceaða fæcne,
þeof þristlice, þe on þystre fareð,
on sweartre niht...
...a crafty burglar,
a bold thief who moves in the darkness,
in the black night..."
Yes, sting, I'll take the goblin Slayer thank you very much. and the ring of power the most coveted with the ability to fit the size of any finger.
but the arkenstone, "Somewhere behind this is an echo of the 'pearl of great price', for which earcnanstan is used in an Old English translation of Matthew 13:45-6: Gelic is rice heofunas menn ceape sohte gode ercnanstanas... The Virgin Mary, too, is addressed by God as min meregrot... min eorclanstan 'my pearl, my precious stone' in one of the Blicking Homilies"
posted by clavdivs at 9:52 PM on March 1 [2 favorites]
"sceaða fæcne,
þeof þristlice, þe on þystre fareð,
on sweartre niht...
...a crafty burglar,
a bold thief who moves in the darkness,
in the black night..."
Yes, sting, I'll take the goblin Slayer thank you very much. and the ring of power the most coveted with the ability to fit the size of any finger.
but the arkenstone, "Somewhere behind this is an echo of the 'pearl of great price', for which earcnanstan is used in an Old English translation of Matthew 13:45-6: Gelic is rice heofunas menn ceape sohte gode ercnanstanas... The Virgin Mary, too, is addressed by God as min meregrot... min eorclanstan 'my pearl, my precious stone' in one of the Blicking Homilies"
posted by clavdivs at 9:52 PM on March 1 [2 favorites]
Hearing somebody talk about the phallic symbolism in these stories as if it's a new and shocking idea is almost... cute. Like, Mel Brooks was making dick jokes about lightsabers in Spaceballs, and it was hacky then.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 10:35 PM on March 1 [3 favorites]
posted by Ursula Hitler at 10:35 PM on March 1 [3 favorites]
Notice how there was not even a cursory nod to the idea that Irulan could just inherit the mantle of empire herself.
Of course, because the empire is a representation of the patriarchy. Irulan is the only woman who submits to it, and that diminishes her.
However, women do inherit the empire. When Leto and Ghanima take control, Ghanima becomes Empress to the emasculated Leto and takes Farad'n as a concubine. Ghanima doesn't have to transform into another creature, but her contribution to humanity continues far beyond the end of Leto's rule. Leto's role was to destroy the old system permanently, and Ghanima created the new humanity that took its place.
The all-female Fish Speakers enforce the empire's rule because they are the only force that can be trusted to protect life. They are as violent and vicious as any army, but their femininity is crucial in "subduing the aggressive male". Even the God Emperor, when speaking of the priestesses he named the Fish Speakers after, says, "I am those women".
This theme is repeated so many times. A bit of Mone's internal dialog:
And he knew also about evil men who sat at table, gorging themselves on rare delicacies while they watched the torture of fellow humans.
Until the Fish Speakers came, and gore erased such scenes.
On the other hand, Duncan, the symbol of masculinity, is treated like a stud and destroyed and recreated at Leto's whim.
I assume you're talking about Alia. She's destroyed because she loses control to a ultra masculine persona, which is another example of the destructive role of masculinity in the story.
posted by betaray at 10:45 PM on March 1 [3 favorites]
Of course, because the empire is a representation of the patriarchy. Irulan is the only woman who submits to it, and that diminishes her.
However, women do inherit the empire. When Leto and Ghanima take control, Ghanima becomes Empress to the emasculated Leto and takes Farad'n as a concubine. Ghanima doesn't have to transform into another creature, but her contribution to humanity continues far beyond the end of Leto's rule. Leto's role was to destroy the old system permanently, and Ghanima created the new humanity that took its place.
The all-female Fish Speakers enforce the empire's rule because they are the only force that can be trusted to protect life. They are as violent and vicious as any army, but their femininity is crucial in "subduing the aggressive male". Even the God Emperor, when speaking of the priestesses he named the Fish Speakers after, says, "I am those women".
This theme is repeated so many times. A bit of Mone's internal dialog:
And he knew also about evil men who sat at table, gorging themselves on rare delicacies while they watched the torture of fellow humans.
Until the Fish Speakers came, and gore erased such scenes.
On the other hand, Duncan, the symbol of masculinity, is treated like a stud and destroyed and recreated at Leto's whim.
I assume you're talking about Alia. She's destroyed because she loses control to a ultra masculine persona, which is another example of the destructive role of masculinity in the story.
posted by betaray at 10:45 PM on March 1 [3 favorites]
Arthur pulls a sword from a stone, famously, yes, but there’s a lot of ambiguity here in the Arthurian canon: Excalibur is also a gift from the Lady of the Lake and includes a special scabbard, which has healing powers; literally a magical vagina.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 11:02 PM on March 1 [7 favorites]
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 11:02 PM on March 1 [7 favorites]
Let's just ignore Sting for now
Have you not seen the first Dune movie? One can not ignore Sting.
posted by zengargoyle at 2:54 AM on March 2 [14 favorites]
Have you not seen the first Dune movie? One can not ignore Sting.
posted by zengargoyle at 2:54 AM on March 2 [14 favorites]
I think the Dune 2 popcorn bucket might count as a yonic symbol, with the requisite dentata.
posted by chavenet at 3:15 AM on March 2 [7 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 3:15 AM on March 2 [7 favorites]
The author spends a bit of time going on about Harry Potter and wands and broomsticks as being obvious sexual metaphors but I dunno seems a stretch to me to call these things phallic symbols.
In 2007 I was in the process of listening to the The Deathly Hallows on tape (narrated by the amazing Jim Dale) and I had just started dating grumpybearbride. She was not a HP fan, but laid there in bed with me listening to the recordings because, well, we do stupid things when we're first in love. Anyhow, it got to the bit where Harry and Ron and Hermione are making their way to the school via backroads, and camping, and Ron and Harry start comparing wand sizes. GBB started guffawing and I was all "WHAT" and she said it was obviously a very ham-fisted metaphor for ding-dongs, and ladies and gentlebirds I was scandalized that she would assign such a puerile and unpotterlike reading to this sacred text. I got, she delights in recounting when the subject comes up, "so mad." We somehow made it through that, of course.
Now that I've had 16 years to reflect on the passage, and having earned my postdoctoral degree in not reading anything by JK Rowling again for the rest of my life, I can confidently state: yup, they were dicks.
posted by grumpybear69 at 4:39 AM on March 2 [6 favorites]
In 2007 I was in the process of listening to the The Deathly Hallows on tape (narrated by the amazing Jim Dale) and I had just started dating grumpybearbride. She was not a HP fan, but laid there in bed with me listening to the recordings because, well, we do stupid things when we're first in love. Anyhow, it got to the bit where Harry and Ron and Hermione are making their way to the school via backroads, and camping, and Ron and Harry start comparing wand sizes. GBB started guffawing and I was all "WHAT" and she said it was obviously a very ham-fisted metaphor for ding-dongs, and ladies and gentlebirds I was scandalized that she would assign such a puerile and unpotterlike reading to this sacred text. I got, she delights in recounting when the subject comes up, "so mad." We somehow made it through that, of course.
Now that I've had 16 years to reflect on the passage, and having earned my postdoctoral degree in not reading anything by JK Rowling again for the rest of my life, I can confidently state: yup, they were dicks.
posted by grumpybear69 at 4:39 AM on March 2 [6 favorites]
Now that I've had 16 years to reflect on the passage, and having earned my postdoctoral degree in not reading anything by JK Rowling again for the rest of my life, I can confidently state: yup, they were dicks.
Several years too late, it is with bittersweet pleasure that I introduce you to bash.org, now-defunct-home of nerdy IRC chat logs, notably this one about what happens when you replace "wand" with "wang" across the series.
posted by Mayor West at 5:52 AM on March 2 [10 favorites]
Several years too late, it is with bittersweet pleasure that I introduce you to bash.org, now-defunct-home of nerdy IRC chat logs, notably this one about what happens when you replace "wand" with "wang" across the series.
posted by Mayor West at 5:52 AM on March 2 [10 favorites]
Another point: up until the fight in Return of the Jedi, Luke's real prowess and impact on the course of events is not as a lightsaber wielder, but as a pilot. Now, you could get into the barbershop-Freudianism of that, with X-wings being kinda phallic and the destruction of the first Death Star being akin to an ovum being fertilized with a very destructive sperm, but whatever, man. And his sister is a better shot.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:11 AM on March 2 [1 favorite]
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:11 AM on March 2 [1 favorite]
Good old dick theory. It can take a swing at any topic. A cool feature of dick theory is that it is dependably the flip side of uterus theory. See that phallic office tower thrusting into the sky? It is a giant uterus nurturing hundreds of businesses. See that ravenous hell-schlong of Shaihulud? It is a giant uterus for spice. We can carry on like this all day! As to the chosen one interpretation of King Arthur's drawing of Excalibur from the stone, this may be a case of having only one tool. There interesting archeological takes on that legend. The story of Excalibur is situated at the time when the bronze age was transitioning, or had transitioned, into the iron age. In the bronze age, swords were cast in stone or ceramic molds. A new sword was 'drawn' from the stone. The story of Excalibur may be drawing on the processes and symbolism surrounding the forging of weapons, which would have been known to contemporary audiences, to illustrate the ritual and political significance of Arthur's act. Everything is about sex, except that sex is about power.
posted by SnowRottie at 7:57 AM on March 2 [3 favorites]
posted by SnowRottie at 7:57 AM on March 2 [3 favorites]
there's something in the harry potter books where rowling ham-fistedly texts the wand subtext. i think by then she was at the point in her career where editorial input is received in the same gentle-but-weary fashion typically reserved for the maunderings of one's aging relatives.
if you want yonic tho, what about 'harry potter and goblet of fire?' can't just slide past a book about pubescent wizards vying for a magic cup by performing outlandish acts with their wands.
and then the magic cup kills the one who gets it.
posted by logicpunk at 8:11 AM on March 2 [3 favorites]
if you want yonic tho, what about 'harry potter and goblet of fire?' can't just slide past a book about pubescent wizards vying for a magic cup by performing outlandish acts with their wands.
and then the magic cup kills the one who gets it.
posted by logicpunk at 8:11 AM on March 2 [3 favorites]
There is this school of literary thought who believes all the great themes boil down to masculine phallic anxiety. Sword! Wands! Missiles! Lances! Towering pillars of light! Becoming a king!
There is a f*** of a lot of projection going on, by guys who are dick obsessed. There is nothing inherently sexual about a sword, any more than there is something inherently sexual about a fourteen-year-old-girl. A certain kind of guy is going to instantly project sex on any fourteen-year-old-girl that they see, but for the fourteen-year-old-girl whom they sexualize, they are nothing but creeps. It's the same with a sword. The frigging thing is tall and pointed because of physics, and any comparison to a dick is wishful thinking on the part of the guy who sees the sword, or the wand, as being a dick. Dicks don't work like that. They are pretty darn lousy weapons - they have a soft smooth rounded tip to prevent them from causing damage and they are normally a whole seven inches long. It's the same kind of a stretch to associate your dick with a sword or a sandworm, as it is to assume that every fourteen-year-old-girl in your radius is trying to attract your attention.
People ARE supposed to read personal psychological meaning into the stories we read and watch. That's how stories they work. Projection is normal and desirable. But it is also individual. One person reads a novel and they think about how they are thwarted by people manipulating them into meeting their needs. Another person reads a novel and they think about having power to make people do what they want. Another reads a novel and the theme that resonates is about connecting and loss. Whatever they find in the novel is based on where they are psychologically and socially. But none of it is universal.
What beats me is how the dick obsessed guys get taken seriously. Can you imagine if literary analysis went on and on about how every woman sees containers as womb imagery, and that all real great lit is about women and their fecundity and their need to provide? And if dick lit got dismissed as being nothing more than dick lit, male masturbation fantasy and not to be taken seriously by anyone? Yeah, yeah, yeah, immature wish fulfillment fantasy. Any novel that doesn't have at least 3/4s of the words taken up describe the actions and speech of women is clearly just a pulp for semi-literate guys to read. That would be just as absurd as the dick-centric values that many literary critics believe.
It's not that the underpinnings of this kind of literature is a collectively shared unconscious obsession, it's that for some guys, often only for a certain period in their life, they can't see anything but power as related to their dick. It's cringe reading novels by guys who are dick obsessed, and it's a tell when someone says a power fantasy is about dick - it outs the person saying it as a creep, who not only projects dick into things, but reveals them as someone who can't believe other people aren't similarly obsessed.
posted by Jane the Brown at 8:24 AM on March 2 [11 favorites]
There is a f*** of a lot of projection going on, by guys who are dick obsessed. There is nothing inherently sexual about a sword, any more than there is something inherently sexual about a fourteen-year-old-girl. A certain kind of guy is going to instantly project sex on any fourteen-year-old-girl that they see, but for the fourteen-year-old-girl whom they sexualize, they are nothing but creeps. It's the same with a sword. The frigging thing is tall and pointed because of physics, and any comparison to a dick is wishful thinking on the part of the guy who sees the sword, or the wand, as being a dick. Dicks don't work like that. They are pretty darn lousy weapons - they have a soft smooth rounded tip to prevent them from causing damage and they are normally a whole seven inches long. It's the same kind of a stretch to associate your dick with a sword or a sandworm, as it is to assume that every fourteen-year-old-girl in your radius is trying to attract your attention.
People ARE supposed to read personal psychological meaning into the stories we read and watch. That's how stories they work. Projection is normal and desirable. But it is also individual. One person reads a novel and they think about how they are thwarted by people manipulating them into meeting their needs. Another person reads a novel and they think about having power to make people do what they want. Another reads a novel and the theme that resonates is about connecting and loss. Whatever they find in the novel is based on where they are psychologically and socially. But none of it is universal.
What beats me is how the dick obsessed guys get taken seriously. Can you imagine if literary analysis went on and on about how every woman sees containers as womb imagery, and that all real great lit is about women and their fecundity and their need to provide? And if dick lit got dismissed as being nothing more than dick lit, male masturbation fantasy and not to be taken seriously by anyone? Yeah, yeah, yeah, immature wish fulfillment fantasy. Any novel that doesn't have at least 3/4s of the words taken up describe the actions and speech of women is clearly just a pulp for semi-literate guys to read. That would be just as absurd as the dick-centric values that many literary critics believe.
It's not that the underpinnings of this kind of literature is a collectively shared unconscious obsession, it's that for some guys, often only for a certain period in their life, they can't see anything but power as related to their dick. It's cringe reading novels by guys who are dick obsessed, and it's a tell when someone says a power fantasy is about dick - it outs the person saying it as a creep, who not only projects dick into things, but reveals them as someone who can't believe other people aren't similarly obsessed.
posted by Jane the Brown at 8:24 AM on March 2 [11 favorites]
You know, I think the critical thinking about chosen one stories is great, and Magic Dick Theory feels pretty apt to some of these, but hoo BOY could I do with a bit less "gross" side snark in an article about it.
posted by ChrisR at 8:25 AM on March 2
posted by ChrisR at 8:25 AM on March 2
any comparison to a dick is wishful thinking on the part of the guy who sees the sword, or the wand, as being a dick. Dicks don't work like that
Metaphors, on the other hand...
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:16 AM on March 2
Metaphors, on the other hand...
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:16 AM on March 2
a metaphor in the hand is worth $20, same as in town
posted by kokaku at 9:22 AM on March 2 [8 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 9:22 AM on March 2 [8 favorites]
Now that I've had 16 years to reflect on the passage, and having earned my postdoctoral degree in not reading anything by JK Rowling again for the rest of my life, I can confidently state: yup, they were dicks.
History vindicates Alan Moore once again.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 9:25 AM on March 2 [1 favorite]
History vindicates Alan Moore once again.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 9:25 AM on March 2 [1 favorite]
this may be a case of having only one tool.
I've never met anyone with two.
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:17 AM on March 2 [1 favorite]
I've never met anyone with two.
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:17 AM on March 2 [1 favorite]
I've never met anyone with two.
Met anyone? No. Have a very badly degraded scene on a VHS somewhere that has such a person? Yes.
posted by hippybear at 1:29 PM on March 2 [3 favorites]
Met anyone? No. Have a very badly degraded scene on a VHS somewhere that has such a person? Yes.
posted by hippybear at 1:29 PM on March 2 [3 favorites]
Can you imagine if literary analysis went on and on about how every woman sees containers as womb imagery, and that all real great lit is about women and their fecundity and their need to provide?
I don't have to imagine it; Ursula Le Guin's The Carrier Bag Theory of Fiction does it for me:
I would go so far as to say that the natural, proper, fitting shape of the novel might be that of a sack, a bag. A book holds words. Words hold things. They bear meanings. A novel is a medicine bundle, holding things in a particular, powerful relation to one another and to us.
posted by ALeaflikeStructure at 1:42 PM on March 2
I don't have to imagine it; Ursula Le Guin's The Carrier Bag Theory of Fiction does it for me:
I would go so far as to say that the natural, proper, fitting shape of the novel might be that of a sack, a bag. A book holds words. Words hold things. They bear meanings. A novel is a medicine bundle, holding things in a particular, powerful relation to one another and to us.
posted by ALeaflikeStructure at 1:42 PM on March 2
Can you imagine if literary analysis went on and on about how every woman sees containers as womb imagery, and that all real great lit is about women and their fecundity and their need to provide?
Well, you might need to read up on feminist critical analysis of horror movies, where, in certain parts, absolutely everything is "the monstrous feminine", "archaic mother", and so on. This is mostly from the work of Barbara Creed, if you're really interested, but it tends to get a bit repetitive and monomaniacal.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 2:23 PM on March 2
Well, you might need to read up on feminist critical analysis of horror movies, where, in certain parts, absolutely everything is "the monstrous feminine", "archaic mother", and so on. This is mostly from the work of Barbara Creed, if you're really interested, but it tends to get a bit repetitive and monomaniacal.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 2:23 PM on March 2
Yes, it's way too reductive (and the phallic insight dates back at least to the 1960s), but that seems crucial to the Cracked-style strain of humour running through the piece. Nevertheless, I'll second (or maybe third or fourth) appreciation for the "cake narrative" part.
Regarding all the "but what about when in God Emperor or later novels" arguments, I thought the critique fairly clearly positioned itself as being about Dune and not the sequels. Also, eventually Duncan Idaho literally gets the most magic dick of all.
Anyway, my takeaway from the article is it's safe for me to go back to Conan. He's not a chosen one and (excepting the non-conanical bollocks of the movie) he doesn't have a special sword. So he must be barbarically free of magic dick taint. Unless... it is his mighty thews, his body itself, that is the magic dick. Sooo... that would mean when he explodes in barbaric fury, splattering the blood and gore of his enemies all about, it's just another one of those "physically overwhelming orgasmic release(s)." Oh no, it's true, the author was right, I can't un-encounter it. Mitra help me, the serpent is everywhere.
posted by house-goblin at 2:29 PM on March 2 [2 favorites]
Regarding all the "but what about when in God Emperor or later novels" arguments, I thought the critique fairly clearly positioned itself as being about Dune and not the sequels. Also, eventually Duncan Idaho literally gets the most magic dick of all.
Anyway, my takeaway from the article is it's safe for me to go back to Conan. He's not a chosen one and (excepting the non-conanical bollocks of the movie) he doesn't have a special sword. So he must be barbarically free of magic dick taint. Unless... it is his mighty thews, his body itself, that is the magic dick. Sooo... that would mean when he explodes in barbaric fury, splattering the blood and gore of his enemies all about, it's just another one of those "physically overwhelming orgasmic release(s)." Oh no, it's true, the author was right, I can't un-encounter it. Mitra help me, the serpent is everywhere.
posted by house-goblin at 2:29 PM on March 2 [2 favorites]
Anyway, my takeaway from the article is it's safe for me to go back to Conan.
The basically reprehensible soft-core patriarchy porn series Gor had three books that centered around a male from Earth being taken to our sister world, Fighting Slave Of Gor, Rogue Of Gor, and Guardsman Of Gor, the only three that have a male slave kidnapped from Earth rather than a female.
I don't know why I'm mentioning this now, other than they felt a bit like Conan books.
posted by hippybear at 2:39 PM on March 2
The basically reprehensible soft-core patriarchy porn series Gor had three books that centered around a male from Earth being taken to our sister world, Fighting Slave Of Gor, Rogue Of Gor, and Guardsman Of Gor, the only three that have a male slave kidnapped from Earth rather than a female.
I don't know why I'm mentioning this now, other than they felt a bit like Conan books.
posted by hippybear at 2:39 PM on March 2
LOL "normally about seven inches long". Yeah, right.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 2:51 PM on March 2 [2 favorites]
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 2:51 PM on March 2 [2 favorites]
I don't know why I'm mentioning this now, other than they felt a bit like Conan books.
I remember those. For a while the cover designs of the Gor and Conan books were very similar, especially when they used Boris Vallejo for the artwork. I suppose I should be thankful my teenage devotion to Conan left me uninterested in Mr Norman's musings.
posted by house-goblin at 4:07 PM on March 2
I remember those. For a while the cover designs of the Gor and Conan books were very similar, especially when they used Boris Vallejo for the artwork. I suppose I should be thankful my teenage devotion to Conan left me uninterested in Mr Norman's musings.
posted by house-goblin at 4:07 PM on March 2
Honest to god, only that trilogy were worthwhile storytelling at all. I don't know how my gay ass managed to purchase a boxed set of that exact trilogy of that series as a gift card impulse by Way Back In The Day, but I did, and then I read other books in the series and was all WTF???
Not that there wasn't enough WTF in those books already, but honestly SF books from that era and previously were full of really shitty attitudes toward women in a lot of ways.
posted by hippybear at 4:13 PM on March 2
Not that there wasn't enough WTF in those books already, but honestly SF books from that era and previously were full of really shitty attitudes toward women in a lot of ways.
posted by hippybear at 4:13 PM on March 2
What beats me is how the dick obsessed guys get taken seriously.
There's a bit in Alison Bechdel's Fun Home in which she's in college and some guy--maybe a professor, maybe a TA--is going on about the phallic imagery of something and she's kind of rolling her eyes.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:05 PM on March 2
There's a bit in Alison Bechdel's Fun Home in which she's in college and some guy--maybe a professor, maybe a TA--is going on about the phallic imagery of something and she's kind of rolling her eyes.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:05 PM on March 2
A Positivist in the literary sense would say we can read a text, select statements, then ascribe meaning and significance though logic--hopefully keeping the reader engaged and the resulting text, blessedly, short through rhetoric.
In the first half the author is warning and apologizing to the reader about the text to follow. It might upset you, or worse effect your mind. Then, one by one, the reader points to a handful of "sacred" texts (Star Wars, LOTR, Harry Potter), showing us they are suffused with the thing we were warned about: It's dicks all the way down.
If you can't handle the irreverence dealt to these sacred texts or the dick jokes, then you are invited to stop reading.
Now, after working to steel our sensibilities the author steps into their critique. Otherwise tame observations of themes and logical arguments about how these themes are subverted in Dune.
Huh. Why setup all this cover? Because Dune is a sacred text? Because psychoanalytic critique of fiction is objectionable? Or "close reading" is objectionable out of secondary school or higher education? Why is the author so unsure of their audience, or is it all just rhetoric?
posted by xtian at 10:28 AM on March 3
In the first half the author is warning and apologizing to the reader about the text to follow. It might upset you, or worse effect your mind. Then, one by one, the reader points to a handful of "sacred" texts (Star Wars, LOTR, Harry Potter), showing us they are suffused with the thing we were warned about: It's dicks all the way down.
If you can't handle the irreverence dealt to these sacred texts or the dick jokes, then you are invited to stop reading.
Now, after working to steel our sensibilities the author steps into their critique. Otherwise tame observations of themes and logical arguments about how these themes are subverted in Dune.
Huh. Why setup all this cover? Because Dune is a sacred text? Because psychoanalytic critique of fiction is objectionable? Or "close reading" is objectionable out of secondary school or higher education? Why is the author so unsure of their audience, or is it all just rhetoric?
posted by xtian at 10:28 AM on March 3
There was an episode of Murphy Brown where the crew awkwardly explains to Miles Silverberg that the dream he'd just described involving the Washington Monument was a textbook "homoerotic" one. He then stammers and insists he misspoke, and it was the Capitol Dome "d-d-d-DEFINITELY VERY BREAST-SHAPED!!!!"
Fortunately the crew then go on to reassure him that weird dreams are just a thing human minds do, and he shouldn't take it to mean anything that doesn't already feel true. Just maybe don't tell that one at dinner.
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 10:33 AM on March 3
Fortunately the crew then go on to reassure him that weird dreams are just a thing human minds do, and he shouldn't take it to mean anything that doesn't already feel true. Just maybe don't tell that one at dinner.
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 10:33 AM on March 3
interesting.
"This was your father's lightsaber"
OH, HELL NO.
posted by clavdivs at 2:31 PM on March 3
"This was your father's lightsaber"
OH, HELL NO.
posted by clavdivs at 2:31 PM on March 3
The Minstrel-Boy to the war is gone,posted by clew at 3:05 PM on March 3 [3 favorites]
In the ranks of death you'll find him;
His father's sword he has girded on,
And his wild harp slung behind him.
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posted by Jon_Evil at 3:18 PM on March 1 [5 favorites]