Huntsville, Alabama: the legacy of Operation Paperclip
March 11, 2024 7:24 AM Subscribe
Alabama's Biggest Secret - Operation Paperclip Video description posted to the YT channel: In the north of Alabama is the city of Huntsville. It's here where German scientists built NASA in secrecy after World War II. Operation Paperclip is still somewhat not talked about today in Huntsville. And for those who know, there are mixed feelings about it. Today we meet up with the grandson of one of the original German scientists to get an inside look at Operation Paperclip and how it left its permanent mark on the city of Huntsville.
Peter Santenello's personal site: "I'M PETER. I make videos showing you a world that the media fails to capture. No BS polarization or political angle—just pure authentic interactions with the locals. I SHARE THE STORY, YOU MAKE YOUR OWN OPINION.
In 2002 at the age of 24, I saved up $20,000 and left the USA for the first time and ventured around the globe for two years through 50 countries. It was a far different truth than the fear-based narrative that I was taught in my youth. That trip taught me that most of the world is wide open and friendly."
Santenello's YT channel
Peter Santenello's personal site: "I'M PETER. I make videos showing you a world that the media fails to capture. No BS polarization or political angle—just pure authentic interactions with the locals. I SHARE THE STORY, YOU MAKE YOUR OWN OPINION.
In 2002 at the age of 24, I saved up $20,000 and left the USA for the first time and ventured around the globe for two years through 50 countries. It was a far different truth than the fear-based narrative that I was taught in my youth. That trip taught me that most of the world is wide open and friendly."
Santenello's YT channel
I SHARE THE STORY, YOU MAKE YOUR OWN OPINION
Everyone who produces something has a perspective. It's impossible not to since you're the one controlling what the audience does and doesn't see and how what you're presenting is framed. This isn't inherently a bad thing--maybe that perspective is a desire to give local voices an opportunity to be heard--but I've found that the more vocal someone is in their denial that they're trying to overtly influence the audience in any way, the more suspicious I am of what they're doing.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 7:49 AM on March 11 [19 favorites]
Everyone who produces something has a perspective. It's impossible not to since you're the one controlling what the audience does and doesn't see and how what you're presenting is framed. This isn't inherently a bad thing--maybe that perspective is a desire to give local voices an opportunity to be heard--but I've found that the more vocal someone is in their denial that they're trying to overtly influence the audience in any way, the more suspicious I am of what they're doing.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 7:49 AM on March 11 [19 favorites]
It was a far different truth than the fear-based narrative that I was taught in my youth. That trip taught me that most of the world is wide open and friendly.
we get it bro you're a white guy
posted by ZaphodB at 7:57 AM on March 11 [31 favorites]
we get it bro you're a white guy
posted by ZaphodB at 7:57 AM on March 11 [31 favorites]
Looking forward to watching this. Operation Paperclip is the Kevin Bacon of both conspiracy theories and actual horrors committed by the OSS/CIA since the 40s. From hollow moon/earth theories to MK Ultra, you're never too many steps removed from Operation Paperclip.
posted by slimepuppy at 7:58 AM on March 11 [5 favorites]
posted by slimepuppy at 7:58 AM on March 11 [5 favorites]
I think "German" and "after World War II" are doing a lot of work in the video description.
posted by an octopus IRL at 8:08 AM on March 11 [7 favorites]
posted by an octopus IRL at 8:08 AM on March 11 [7 favorites]
I used to live in Huntsville. My dad worked on Redstone Arsenal, the heart of the North Alabama space program. We lived a short ways from it. Von Braun's name was on the civic center.
posted by grubi at 8:12 AM on March 11 [4 favorites]
posted by grubi at 8:12 AM on March 11 [4 favorites]
More info from Wikipedia.
tl;dr: many of these were Nazis, including scientists who had engaged in human experiments. There were concerns about it within the US government, but it was seen as an acceptable price to pay for supremacy against Japan and the Soviet Union, and owed to the US as war reparations.
posted by splitpeasoup at 8:26 AM on March 11 [8 favorites]
tl;dr: many of these were Nazis, including scientists who had engaged in human experiments. There were concerns about it within the US government, but it was seen as an acceptable price to pay for supremacy against Japan and the Soviet Union, and owed to the US as war reparations.
posted by splitpeasoup at 8:26 AM on March 11 [8 favorites]
Related, Tim Hartford's podcast Cautionary Tales just did a three-part series on the V2, focusing heavily on Von Braun. All three episodes, and an earlier related episode are available here.
posted by nathan_teske at 8:29 AM on March 11 [4 favorites]
posted by nathan_teske at 8:29 AM on March 11 [4 favorites]
My turn to nitpick: "not talked about" is not really the same thing as "a secret." See, for example, that one song by Tom Lehrer. von Braun also shows up in Apple's For All Mankind. Operation: Paperclip is referenced obliquely in Captain America: The Winter Soldier.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:30 AM on March 11 [7 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:30 AM on March 11 [7 favorites]
Old Soviet joke:
"How did the Americans land a man on the moon before us?
Their Nazi rocket scientists were better than our Nazi rocket scientists."
posted by thatwhichfalls at 8:31 AM on March 11 [19 favorites]
"How did the Americans land a man on the moon before us?
Their Nazi rocket scientists were better than our Nazi rocket scientists."
posted by thatwhichfalls at 8:31 AM on March 11 [19 favorites]
That joke was also used in The Right Stuff.
posted by NoMich at 8:40 AM on March 11 [12 favorites]
posted by NoMich at 8:40 AM on March 11 [12 favorites]
I included the videographer's own words in framing this because, yes, it's a choice.
I'm wondering what percentage of people will watch his videos to arrive at less-shitty (vs. more-shitty) conclusions? There's a tendency in this space, for instance, to jump to the hottest and most critical take immediately and I find that exhausting at times.
Also, this: we get it bro you're a white guy
There are a lot of white guys pumping out a narrative about how scary other parts of the world are. The US is famously an inward-looking nation/empire in many ways. I'm not sure that Other Places = Scary has been doing much good in the world, either.
Anyhow, my older and capital L-Liberal Canadian brother shared this and I can find lots to criticize, but I also think it's well worth sharing here. I get that it won't pass the purity sniff test for everyone, but whatever
posted by elkevelvet at 8:43 AM on March 11 [19 favorites]
I'm wondering what percentage of people will watch his videos to arrive at less-shitty (vs. more-shitty) conclusions? There's a tendency in this space, for instance, to jump to the hottest and most critical take immediately and I find that exhausting at times.
Also, this: we get it bro you're a white guy
There are a lot of white guys pumping out a narrative about how scary other parts of the world are. The US is famously an inward-looking nation/empire in many ways. I'm not sure that Other Places = Scary has been doing much good in the world, either.
Anyhow, my older and capital L-Liberal Canadian brother shared this and I can find lots to criticize, but I also think it's well worth sharing here. I get that it won't pass the purity sniff test for everyone, but whatever
posted by elkevelvet at 8:43 AM on March 11 [19 favorites]
More on Strughold's experiments:
In 1943, half a dozen children 11 to 13 years old were taken from a nearby psychiatric facility known as Brandenburg-Goerden and brought over to the Institute. Once there, the children, most of whom had epilepsy, were subjected to "hypoxia," or oxygen deprivation experiments. They were placed in an altitude chamber and administered lower levels of oxygen to see if the conditions would trigger seizures.In a book on Nazi medical practices between 1927-1945, author Hans-Walter Schmuhl, a German scholar, recounted in detail those experiments, explaining how the tests had initially begun on rabbits. He described how Dr. Strughold had several "vacuum chambers" and the children were subjected to experiments that simulated altitudes of nearly 20,000 feet. The children survived the research, which didn't end up triggering seizures—so the undertaking was deemed a scientific failure.Even so, Dr. Schmuhl wrote that the scientists "knew from the animal experiments that young epileptic rabbits reacted…with violent, often fatal convulsions" and they "expected (and hoped) that the children would react like the rabbits." (link)
posted by splitpeasoup at 9:00 AM on March 11 [2 favorites]
In 1943, half a dozen children 11 to 13 years old were taken from a nearby psychiatric facility known as Brandenburg-Goerden and brought over to the Institute. Once there, the children, most of whom had epilepsy, were subjected to "hypoxia," or oxygen deprivation experiments. They were placed in an altitude chamber and administered lower levels of oxygen to see if the conditions would trigger seizures.In a book on Nazi medical practices between 1927-1945, author Hans-Walter Schmuhl, a German scholar, recounted in detail those experiments, explaining how the tests had initially begun on rabbits. He described how Dr. Strughold had several "vacuum chambers" and the children were subjected to experiments that simulated altitudes of nearly 20,000 feet. The children survived the research, which didn't end up triggering seizures—so the undertaking was deemed a scientific failure.Even so, Dr. Schmuhl wrote that the scientists "knew from the animal experiments that young epileptic rabbits reacted…with violent, often fatal convulsions" and they "expected (and hoped) that the children would react like the rabbits." (link)
posted by splitpeasoup at 9:00 AM on March 11 [2 favorites]
Anyhow, my older and capital L-Liberal Canadian brother shared this and I can find lots to criticize, but I also think it's well worth sharing here. I get that it won't pass the purity sniff test for everyone, but whatever
I appreciate the share. I've seen a few of his videos and they're usually interesting and fun to watch at the very least, and sometimes strikingly insightful and informative. I do think, while he himself may not be the type of content creator some of these comments are implying he is, his general approach and the "I'm showing you stuff the media doesn't want you to see" vibe he gives off draws in that sort of audience. One of his recent videos showcased a visit to a small town in Alabama and I distinctly remember quite a few comments to the tune of "This is the real America, none of the racial conflict the media keeps trying to feed us!"... I'll give you one guess as to how many people of color appeared in that video.
posted by Method Man at 9:18 AM on March 11 [4 favorites]
I appreciate the share. I've seen a few of his videos and they're usually interesting and fun to watch at the very least, and sometimes strikingly insightful and informative. I do think, while he himself may not be the type of content creator some of these comments are implying he is, his general approach and the "I'm showing you stuff the media doesn't want you to see" vibe he gives off draws in that sort of audience. One of his recent videos showcased a visit to a small town in Alabama and I distinctly remember quite a few comments to the tune of "This is the real America, none of the racial conflict the media keeps trying to feed us!"... I'll give you one guess as to how many people of color appeared in that video.
posted by Method Man at 9:18 AM on March 11 [4 favorites]
"How did the Americans land a man on the moon before us?
Their Nazi rocket scientists were better than our Nazi rocket scientists."
Simplistically speaking, a US Nazi rocket scientist is also the
posted by zamboni at 9:24 AM on March 11 [3 favorites]
Their Nazi rocket scientists were better than our Nazi rocket scientists."
Simplistically speaking, a US Nazi rocket scientist is also the
reasonwhy the Soviet space program was first to put a human in space. After Mercury-Redstone 2 experienced problems, Von Braun insisted, over the objections of Alan Shepherd and others, on the Mercury-Redstone BD test flight. Launched on March 24, MR-BD operated pretty much perfectly, but the delay meant that the Vostok 1 launch on April 12 beat MR-3/Freedom 7 on May 5.
posted by zamboni at 9:24 AM on March 11 [3 favorites]
I have a relative who worked in Huntsville in a related industry, and all I know of what he had to say about it is, "'Yup, Wernher was a big ol' kraut.'"
posted by Countess Elena at 10:01 AM on March 11 [3 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 10:01 AM on March 11 [3 favorites]
I don't understand why people are being cute in this thread.
Nazis are a serious concern. It's not because they are "krauts" (ugh), it's because they are Nazis.
And our Nazis weren't "better" than "theirs". It's just something we say to excuse our own condoning these scientists' use of or complicity with human experimental subjects (Dachau detainees and disabled children) and forced labor.
There is no good use of Nazi science. It's not good science. Nothing good can come of it, for all that many intelligent people may have been involved.
And if we do not heed the lessons of the past, we are bound to repeat them in the future. Genius does not excuse harm to other humans. Must we learn this again and again?
posted by splitpeasoup at 10:21 AM on March 11 [5 favorites]
Nazis are a serious concern. It's not because they are "krauts" (ugh), it's because they are Nazis.
And our Nazis weren't "better" than "theirs". It's just something we say to excuse our own condoning these scientists' use of or complicity with human experimental subjects (Dachau detainees and disabled children) and forced labor.
There is no good use of Nazi science. It's not good science. Nothing good can come of it, for all that many intelligent people may have been involved.
And if we do not heed the lessons of the past, we are bound to repeat them in the future. Genius does not excuse harm to other humans. Must we learn this again and again?
posted by splitpeasoup at 10:21 AM on March 11 [5 favorites]
splitpeasoup, I did not intend to be cute. Dark humor is not cute, but it is as close to genuine as some circumstances permit.
posted by Countess Elena at 10:36 AM on March 11 [9 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 10:36 AM on March 11 [9 favorites]
There is no good use of Nazi science. It's not good science. Nothing good can come of it, for all that many intelligent people may have been involved.
Barring solutions that would have been their own war crimes, the scientists and engineers of Nazi Germany were going to go somewhere. Products of Operation Paperclip, Operation Osoaviakhim, Operation Surgeon, Alsos/Russian Alsos, and TICOM, etc, are probably innumerable. We can question the morality of exploiting them, but they were undeniably effective, and things derived from them are with us today.
posted by zamboni at 11:21 AM on March 11 [4 favorites]
Barring solutions that would have been their own war crimes, the scientists and engineers of Nazi Germany were going to go somewhere. Products of Operation Paperclip, Operation Osoaviakhim, Operation Surgeon, Alsos/Russian Alsos, and TICOM, etc, are probably innumerable. We can question the morality of exploiting them, but they were undeniably effective, and things derived from them are with us today.
posted by zamboni at 11:21 AM on March 11 [4 favorites]
Paperclip, and the numerous similar programs around the world, are a good way to interrogate whether it’s possible for nations to behave morally. Truman’s own changing opinions on the matter are a good exhibit - he took a very long time to approve, but then denied being ambivalent later, claiming it was inevitable.
posted by q*ben at 11:37 AM on March 11
posted by q*ben at 11:37 AM on March 11
Barring solutions that would have been their own war crimes
That's perhaps a bit too categorical - let's go with
posted by zamboni at 11:40 AM on March 11 [2 favorites]
That's perhaps a bit too categorical - let's go with
might have been.
posted by zamboni at 11:40 AM on March 11 [2 favorites]
Old Soviet joke
That "joke" is reminding me of past discussions we've had about how differently the Second World War is remembered in Russia and how the word 'Nazi' doesn't have the same symbolism and association with the Holocaust that it does in the West. Taking that into account, I think it makes the joke's punchline even more sinister because it implies the speaker may not even be aware of the moral failings of using Nazi scientists.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 11:50 AM on March 11 [1 favorite]
That "joke" is reminding me of past discussions we've had about how differently the Second World War is remembered in Russia and how the word 'Nazi' doesn't have the same symbolism and association with the Holocaust that it does in the West. Taking that into account, I think it makes the joke's punchline even more sinister because it implies the speaker may not even be aware of the moral failings of using Nazi scientists.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 11:50 AM on March 11 [1 favorite]
Von Braun's name was on the civic center.
Still is, AFAIK. Last time I was in the airport (HSV) I noticed they had removed the little von braun exhibit. That was a while ago, but even then it seemed crazy that it had lasted so long. It looks like the EB on campus (UAH) with his name on it will be quietly demolished when its replacement is built?
It was never a secret that he was a nazi among the student body on campus or anywhere on Redstone Arsenal. The US government was just more interested in the program's success-- to include rockets as nuclear weapons-- than the obvious ethical issue of using captured nazis to do it.
I'd love to see his name and likeness stricken from the buildings its still on. But getting that done is time, money and effort. All of which in 2024 are better focused on living nazis rather than dead ones. Liberals in Alabama already have a tough enough fight on their hands. Biden cleared something like 36% of the vote in 2020. Getting another 2017 "Alabama Democrat Doug Jones beats Roy Moore for US Senate" result is already long odds.
posted by howbigisthistextfield at 11:54 AM on March 11 [7 favorites]
Still is, AFAIK. Last time I was in the airport (HSV) I noticed they had removed the little von braun exhibit. That was a while ago, but even then it seemed crazy that it had lasted so long. It looks like the EB on campus (UAH) with his name on it will be quietly demolished when its replacement is built?
It was never a secret that he was a nazi among the student body on campus or anywhere on Redstone Arsenal. The US government was just more interested in the program's success-- to include rockets as nuclear weapons-- than the obvious ethical issue of using captured nazis to do it.
I'd love to see his name and likeness stricken from the buildings its still on. But getting that done is time, money and effort. All of which in 2024 are better focused on living nazis rather than dead ones. Liberals in Alabama already have a tough enough fight on their hands. Biden cleared something like 36% of the vote in 2020. Getting another 2017 "Alabama Democrat Doug Jones beats Roy Moore for US Senate" result is already long odds.
posted by howbigisthistextfield at 11:54 AM on March 11 [7 favorites]
After watching a couple of Peter's videos, he has got that Joe Rogan naivete. Doug, his tour guide for "Exploring Wealthy Alamaba," is a charlatan. Doug is the one who claims that people in Alabama have worked through all their differences and learned to live with each other, which is obviously what Peter wants to hear. I also lol'd when he said Alabama public schools are "great." There's a reason that anyone with money sends their kid to private school. Doug's trying to sell some real estate, so his motivations are understandable.
The best part of that video is when Paige says, "Doug has many characters he can be" and a "great impersonator." That's the most authentic bit of Southern culture I saw in that video, calling someone out on their bullshit but making it seem like a compliment. Though, I don't think Peter understood the meaning of what was being said.
However, I think Peter should get credit for going to these places he's been prejudiced about and having conversations with the locals. In "Inside Alabama's Blackest Region," he has a very uncomfortable conversation with a woman at a damaged church. Again, Peter's naive perspective guided his questions, and I could feel how much the woman was holding back. The conversation does give her enough space to lay some truth on him when she tells him that part of the problem is that white people killed the leaders of black communities in her lifetime.
What comes up in both videos is how acceptance and family go hand in hand. The woman in Fairhope talks about accepting her gay son because he is family, and the man in Selma talks about how people of different races get along on his street, pointing out a family across the street with a biracial kid. So even if there's a fair amount of holding back the truth, something can be learned about these places from the videos.
posted by betaray at 11:54 AM on March 11 [8 favorites]
The best part of that video is when Paige says, "Doug has many characters he can be" and a "great impersonator." That's the most authentic bit of Southern culture I saw in that video, calling someone out on their bullshit but making it seem like a compliment. Though, I don't think Peter understood the meaning of what was being said.
However, I think Peter should get credit for going to these places he's been prejudiced about and having conversations with the locals. In "Inside Alabama's Blackest Region," he has a very uncomfortable conversation with a woman at a damaged church. Again, Peter's naive perspective guided his questions, and I could feel how much the woman was holding back. The conversation does give her enough space to lay some truth on him when she tells him that part of the problem is that white people killed the leaders of black communities in her lifetime.
What comes up in both videos is how acceptance and family go hand in hand. The woman in Fairhope talks about accepting her gay son because he is family, and the man in Selma talks about how people of different races get along on his street, pointing out a family across the street with a biracial kid. So even if there's a fair amount of holding back the truth, something can be learned about these places from the videos.
posted by betaray at 11:54 AM on March 11 [8 favorites]
If we're interested in purging our society of Nazism, a couple hundred scientists might be among the least of our worries.
A cursory processing of that list for parent companies reveals the following organizations: Wintershall, Zeiss Ikon, Volkswagen, AGFA, BASF, Bayer, Sanofi, ThyssenKrupp AG, Telefunken, General Dynamics, Magna Steyr, CNH Global, Steyr Arms, Siemens, Shell Oil, Rheinmetall AG, Salzgitter AG, Puch, Porsche, Loewe, Stellantis, DEUMU, Airbus, Merck, Mercedes-Benz Group, Magirus GmbH, Nestle, IBM, Hugo Boss, Deere & Company, General Motors, Ford Motors, Dresdner Bank, Deutsche Bank, ExxonMobil, Evonik Industries, Commerzbank, Chase National Bank, Chanel, BMW, Bahlsen, Baccarat, Audi, Associated Press, Allianz, AEG, the national railway companies of most of Europe, and BAE.
posted by Richard Saunders at 12:21 PM on March 11 [6 favorites]
A cursory processing of that list for parent companies reveals the following organizations: Wintershall, Zeiss Ikon, Volkswagen, AGFA, BASF, Bayer, Sanofi, ThyssenKrupp AG, Telefunken, General Dynamics, Magna Steyr, CNH Global, Steyr Arms, Siemens, Shell Oil, Rheinmetall AG, Salzgitter AG, Puch, Porsche, Loewe, Stellantis, DEUMU, Airbus, Merck, Mercedes-Benz Group, Magirus GmbH, Nestle, IBM, Hugo Boss, Deere & Company, General Motors, Ford Motors, Dresdner Bank, Deutsche Bank, ExxonMobil, Evonik Industries, Commerzbank, Chase National Bank, Chanel, BMW, Bahlsen, Baccarat, Audi, Associated Press, Allianz, AEG, the national railway companies of most of Europe, and BAE.
posted by Richard Saunders at 12:21 PM on March 11 [6 favorites]
I'm OK with calling out any Nazis in the abovementioned corporations as well. As well as the Dulles brothers and other Nazi sympathizers in the US government whose influence determined US foreign policy well into the late 20th century.
Call them all out. Or be consigned to repeat history.
posted by splitpeasoup at 12:42 PM on March 11 [5 favorites]
Call them all out. Or be consigned to repeat history.
posted by splitpeasoup at 12:42 PM on March 11 [5 favorites]
Paperclip wasn't really secret; everyone knew everyone involved was collecting as many smart guys as they could. Maybe the name was secret for a short while, but we were overt in what the objective was. Building NASA wasn't done in secrecy. It's a civilian agency. There was congressional debate. Eisenhower made a speech. I never heard anything in the way of 'mixed feelings' about the Germans in Huntsville working there; maybe a couple of 'yeah, not our finest hour, but it was a long time ago', but far more 'we had to beat the Soviets'.
I SHARE THE STORY, YOU MAKE YOUR OWN OPINION.
My opinion is you're telling a story, not relating truths.
posted by kjs3 at 2:48 PM on March 11 [3 favorites]
I SHARE THE STORY, YOU MAKE YOUR OWN OPINION.
My opinion is you're telling a story, not relating truths.
posted by kjs3 at 2:48 PM on March 11 [3 favorites]
I SHARE THE STORY, YOU MAKE YOUR OWN OPINION
Why does anybody get to have their own opinion if you share the facts with them?
posted by baltimoretim at 5:45 PM on March 11 [1 favorite]
Why does anybody get to have their own opinion if you share the facts with them?
posted by baltimoretim at 5:45 PM on March 11 [1 favorite]
Ok. Can someone else check whether Smarter Every Day supports Black Lives Matter? I had to read about Exxon all day
posted by eustatic at 6:16 PM on March 11 [1 favorite]
posted by eustatic at 6:16 PM on March 11 [1 favorite]
In January I attended a friend's mother's funeral. The mother was a daughter of a Paperclip scientist. With the family lineage in the obituary I can see that he is listed in the Paperclip Wikipedia page. My friend's mother married an aerospace engineer who ended up working at GE Aircraft engine. He eulogized her and revealed that she to worked for the space program back in the early days. He had a charming story that later at GE, NASA brought him and other to work on a side problem about some difficulty the shuttle engines were having. He and his wife worked together through the problems with the engine...an engine whose design could be directly traced to the work her father did.
posted by mmascolino at 6:25 PM on March 11 [3 favorites]
posted by mmascolino at 6:25 PM on March 11 [3 favorites]
Before they got to Huntsville, the Nazi rocket scientists spent time in a Civil War fort on an island in Boston Harbor (called Long Island, just like the better known New York one, but a lot smaller). They were technically illegal immigrants, so the Army had to smuggle them in and hide them in a fort last used in World War I so that Immigration and the State Department wouldn't find them.
But how do you staff and run a fort full of Nazis without worrying about the workers spilling secrets while drinking at a Boston bar on shore leave? You bring in German POWs, who couldn't leave.
From Looking Out: Nazis On The Harbor.
posted by adamg at 6:28 PM on March 11 [5 favorites]
But how do you staff and run a fort full of Nazis without worrying about the workers spilling secrets while drinking at a Boston bar on shore leave? You bring in German POWs, who couldn't leave.
From Looking Out: Nazis On The Harbor.
posted by adamg at 6:28 PM on March 11 [5 favorites]
My turn to nitpick: "not talked about" is not really the same thing as "a secret." See, for example, that one song by Tom Lehrer…
Not to mention that movie by Stanley Kubrick.
posted by TedW at 4:31 AM on March 12
Not to mention that movie by Stanley Kubrick.
posted by TedW at 4:31 AM on March 12
NASA had a biography of von Braun on its website for years before including a mention of his Nazi past. An Inconvenient Truth indeed.
posted by tommasz at 5:54 AM on March 12 [1 favorite]
posted by tommasz at 5:54 AM on March 12 [1 favorite]
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