Generations ain't nothing but a number
March 20, 2024 5:05 AM Subscribe
The youngest Baby Boomers are turning 60 this year, but they have more in common with their Gen X counterparts. (slVancouverSun)
It’s almost as if generational divides are an artificial construct, in an attempt to lump people who are potentially 15 years different in age into broad sweeping categories for convenience sake.
posted by caution live frogs at 5:18 AM on March 20 [44 favorites]
posted by caution live frogs at 5:18 AM on March 20 [44 favorites]
Mod note: Link fixed, cary on!
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 5:20 AM on March 20 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 5:20 AM on March 20 [1 favorite]
The whole 'what generation are you?" is right up there with "what's your sign?".
posted by signal at 5:21 AM on March 20 [28 favorites]
posted by signal at 5:21 AM on March 20 [28 favorites]
One of by best friends of over 30 years turned 60 this year; I turn 53. I got married about two years after he did. He had a kid about four years after I did. Our careers progressed more-or-less the same way. I always thought of him as a peer, and, by extension, a Gen-Xer.
Really, for adults, your peers are defined by milestones more than birth year.
posted by MrGuilt at 5:27 AM on March 20 [4 favorites]
Really, for adults, your peers are defined by milestones more than birth year.
posted by MrGuilt at 5:27 AM on March 20 [4 favorites]
This is me. I am 61, and in the 60's some teenage family friends started calling themselves The Bananas. My brother and I and our same aged friend were still pre-teen, and they started calling us The Baby Bananas. The other two guys liked it and wanted me to join the club, but I hated it, and wouldn't sign their stupid card.
The only generation I ever belonged to was The Blank Generation. I, in fact, was screaming let me out of here before I was even born, (It's such a gamble when you get a face.)
posted by bitslayer at 5:29 AM on March 20 [8 favorites]
The only generation I ever belonged to was The Blank Generation. I, in fact, was screaming let me out of here before I was even born, (It's such a gamble when you get a face.)
posted by bitslayer at 5:29 AM on March 20 [8 favorites]
Is this the proper forum to point out that the X in Generation X wasn't an ordinal, and so subsequent generations being called Y, Z, and Alpha is colossally stupid? No? Carry on.
posted by goatdog at 5:33 AM on March 20 [38 favorites]
posted by goatdog at 5:33 AM on March 20 [38 favorites]
Hypothetically, if an older person were to start the whole "kids these days" speech and complain about how I didn't follow their example and buy a house immediately upon graduating college while settling into a nice, predictable career, I'd happily embrace the concept of generational divides a useful construct for showing them how structural changes in the economy and in society make it difficult for their life experiences to serve as a prescriptive model for younger people to follow.
Then I'd probably shout "OK Boomer" and slug them.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:35 AM on March 20 [9 favorites]
Then I'd probably shout "OK Boomer" and slug them.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:35 AM on March 20 [9 favorites]
Is this the proper forum to point out that the X in Generation X wasn't an ordinal, and so subsequent generations being called Y, Z, and Alpha is colossally stupid?
Thank you! It's nice to know that someone else cares.
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:36 AM on March 20 [12 favorites]
Thank you! It's nice to know that someone else cares.
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:36 AM on March 20 [12 favorites]
I think it's pretty safe to say that one thing all the generations have in common is being really tired.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:37 AM on March 20 [22 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:37 AM on March 20 [22 favorites]
The whole 'what generation are you?" is right up there with "what's your sign?".
This is 100% right. I work in elder care, and I meet a lot of boomers as clients or children of clients. They are not the same. Most of what you can say about "boomers" holds for middle class white boomers raised in the US, and it isn't universal there. Once you leave that narrow box of social class, origin, and race it is entirely useless.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 5:45 AM on March 20 [21 favorites]
This is 100% right. I work in elder care, and I meet a lot of boomers as clients or children of clients. They are not the same. Most of what you can say about "boomers" holds for middle class white boomers raised in the US, and it isn't universal there. Once you leave that narrow box of social class, origin, and race it is entirely useless.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 5:45 AM on March 20 [21 favorites]
This is for bitslayer,. Thanks for the reminder. Generations are marketing bullshit.
posted by evilDoug at 5:58 AM on March 20 [4 favorites]
posted by evilDoug at 5:58 AM on March 20 [4 favorites]
I’m 66. I have never had much, if anything, in common with the crowd most commonly thought of as “boomers.” They’re like uncles and aunts to me, not cohorts. Yet, I keep getting lumped-in with them.
The only generation I ever belonged to was The Blank Generation. I, in fact, was screaming let me out of here before I was even born, (It's such a gamble when you get a face.)
This.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:00 AM on March 20 [9 favorites]
The only generation I ever belonged to was The Blank Generation. I, in fact, was screaming let me out of here before I was even born, (It's such a gamble when you get a face.)
This.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:00 AM on March 20 [9 favorites]
On the subject of generational arbitrariness, my wife is 5 months older than me, and we were both born in 1980 (which is one of those years in that scuffed-over gray area between generations). She identifies as Millennial, and I identify as Generation X, despite the fact that those generational cohorts are the reverse of our age difference and any date-derived cutoff point would not sort us like that. I think this (mostly) derives from two factors:
- We each have a single sibling; my brother is three years my senior, and her sister is five years her junior. Taking a family generation as being a cohesive "cultural generation", it makes sense we'd both identify with the cultural generations of our less ambiguous siblings.
- Technologically speaking, I was an early adopter (what Gretchen McCulloch called Old Internet People), on BBSes and Usenet in the mid-90s; she was introduced to the internet in college (making her, in McCulloch's analysis, a Full Internet Person). We interact with computers in very different ways (I'm still very much a bare-metal, command-line person) and because so much of our life is technologically mediated these days, that feels like a cultural divide.
early adopter ... on BBSes and Usenet in the mid-90s
Harrumph. BBSes started in the late '70s and Usenet in the early '80s. Kids these days...
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 6:21 AM on March 20 [15 favorites]
Harrumph. BBSes started in the late '70s and Usenet in the early '80s. Kids these days...
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 6:21 AM on March 20 [15 favorites]
I really, really hate generational labels. I remember when GenX was being defined in the late 80s and early 90s, and the initial definition put the end of GenX around 1974. So I (1976) was therefore a GenY. But then they moved the goalposts, and I was GenX after all. Clearly it meant nothing! And then in 2014, the Xennial (or Oregon Trail) demographic was defined, and I was all "my people, my people" but the lower cutoff was 1977. Foiled again!
All I know is that I:
- Had divorced parents
- Was a latchkey kid
- Played Oregon Trail in school
- Grew up in sync with the development of personal computers (Atari 400, C64, PC Jr, Amiga)
- Ran a BBS from 1990-1994
- Loved shows like Danger Mouse, Count Duckula and M.A.S.H.
- Was not exposed to Elmo or Duplos
- Walked to school
- Was allowed to bike around town with my friends
- Was allowed to drive to lunch as a senior in HS
- Didn't have a cell phone until after college
- Had a friend whose dad had an in-car satellite phone
- Had a Fisher-Price record player
- Didn't ride in a car seat for the majority of my childhood
So I guess do an MD5 hash of that text, and that's my generation.
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:25 AM on March 20 [36 favorites]
All I know is that I:
- Had divorced parents
- Was a latchkey kid
- Played Oregon Trail in school
- Grew up in sync with the development of personal computers (Atari 400, C64, PC Jr, Amiga)
- Ran a BBS from 1990-1994
- Loved shows like Danger Mouse, Count Duckula and M.A.S.H.
- Was not exposed to Elmo or Duplos
- Walked to school
- Was allowed to bike around town with my friends
- Was allowed to drive to lunch as a senior in HS
- Didn't have a cell phone until after college
- Had a friend whose dad had an in-car satellite phone
- Had a Fisher-Price record player
- Didn't ride in a car seat for the majority of my childhood
So I guess do an MD5 hash of that text, and that's my generation.
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:25 AM on March 20 [36 favorites]
We are not boomers. We were too young for Woodstock, too young for Vietnam War protests, too young to work for Eugene McCarthy. We are Generation Jones. We are OG punk rockers. Do not call us boomers.
posted by 3.2.3 at 6:35 AM on March 20 [18 favorites]
posted by 3.2.3 at 6:35 AM on March 20 [18 favorites]
My previous comment on the subject was just a couple of weeks ago.
posted by gimonca at 6:35 AM on March 20 [1 favorite]
posted by gimonca at 6:35 AM on March 20 [1 favorite]
re: grumpybear69's list -- I'm also 1976, and hit 12/14 on that list. So that checks out I guess?
posted by Thysania at 6:41 AM on March 20 [2 favorites]
posted by Thysania at 6:41 AM on March 20 [2 favorites]
It’s almost as if generational divides are an artificial construct, in an attempt to lump people who are potentially 15 years different in age into broad sweeping categories for convenience sake.
Here comes my personal copypasta, all in caps, if you insist on believing in the validity of generational divides, make of that what you will:
Here comes my personal copypasta, all in caps, if you insist on believing in the validity of generational divides, make of that what you will:
Once more, with feeling: ALL GENERATIONAL CATEGORIES ARE COMPLETELY ARBITRARY, NONE OF THEM HAVE ANY SCIENTIFIC BASIS WHATSOEVER, THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF THE SO CALLED BABY BOOMERS WAS INVENTED BY THEIR PARENTS TO MARKET SHIT TO THEM, AND NOW THE CONCEPT IS PROMULGATED BY THE RULING CLASS AND THEIR LACKEYS TO DIVIDE AND DISTRACT PEOPLE FROM THE ENDEMIC AND WORSENING PROBLEMS OF LATE STAGE CAPITALISM. Thank you and good night.posted by Halloween Jack at 6:46 AM on March 20 [17 favorites]
The whole 'what generation are you?" is right up there with "what's your sign?".
I was idly thinking about "signs" earlier and was wondering if there would have been some very slight validity to the importance of where you were born in the solar calendar at one point in time. In a food-scarce situation, might there be differences between being born in mid-summer, when your mother was eating abundant fruits and grains and animals, versus being born in mid-winter, when in a good year people were eating stored grains and in a bad year tree bark?
I think of the generations as providing some level of common experiences (like, were you born at the right time to go to university when public universities were fully-funded and tuition was cheap?) but differences in things like economic status and culture would far and away override those other generational commonalities.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:52 AM on March 20 [4 favorites]
I was idly thinking about "signs" earlier and was wondering if there would have been some very slight validity to the importance of where you were born in the solar calendar at one point in time. In a food-scarce situation, might there be differences between being born in mid-summer, when your mother was eating abundant fruits and grains and animals, versus being born in mid-winter, when in a good year people were eating stored grains and in a bad year tree bark?
I think of the generations as providing some level of common experiences (like, were you born at the right time to go to university when public universities were fully-funded and tuition was cheap?) but differences in things like economic status and culture would far and away override those other generational commonalities.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:52 AM on March 20 [4 favorites]
Even though I throw around these terms, I know very well it's a class division that the media won't talk about otherwise. The Boomers people love to hate are overeducated, overpaid, and generally white. They write columns or complain on the internet. They aren't the ones who, for example, died of AIDS, or lived quietly hand-to-mouth up to today, or until something happened that they couldn't afford to treat.
on preview: Halloween Jack has it.
I think of myself as Gen X or Xennial, usually the latter. When "Gen X" came out in the 90s, I was clearly too young for it. What I'm definitely in is the generation that missed all the good parties.
There's a tweet that I think about a lot: "Millennials who grew up in the pre-smartphone era are like Tolkien's elves who were the last to see the light of the Two Trees." I mean, sure, it's a joke and it's nerdy as hell, but it points to the idea that something was irrevocably lost -- or rather, eaten.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:52 AM on March 20 [14 favorites]
on preview: Halloween Jack has it.
I think of myself as Gen X or Xennial, usually the latter. When "Gen X" came out in the 90s, I was clearly too young for it. What I'm definitely in is the generation that missed all the good parties.
There's a tweet that I think about a lot: "Millennials who grew up in the pre-smartphone era are like Tolkien's elves who were the last to see the light of the Two Trees." I mean, sure, it's a joke and it's nerdy as hell, but it points to the idea that something was irrevocably lost -- or rather, eaten.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:52 AM on March 20 [14 favorites]
I realise a lot of people in this thread are about ten years older or so than me (still in my 40s) but one of the things I recognise in the ten years older than me was a divide around technology.
I know there's a lot of computer literate people of the age this article talks about here but computers just weren't mainstream - at least here in the UK during the 70s and 80s. They weren't for want of a better word cool.
This did tend to mean, entering the workplace in the mid-90s (post WWW) that there was a divide sometimes. There were the people (and I've had this conversation with a lot of people my age about this) who you just got the feeling they'd be happier if the internet just went away. They knew what they were doing before it and every year it the web became more part of culture, the more they felt threatened.
I suppose I do think generations do have some grounding - it's what you're exposed to when you're young. It's the Douglas Adams quote.
posted by treblekicker at 6:53 AM on March 20 [4 favorites]
I know there's a lot of computer literate people of the age this article talks about here but computers just weren't mainstream - at least here in the UK during the 70s and 80s. They weren't for want of a better word cool.
This did tend to mean, entering the workplace in the mid-90s (post WWW) that there was a divide sometimes. There were the people (and I've had this conversation with a lot of people my age about this) who you just got the feeling they'd be happier if the internet just went away. They knew what they were doing before it and every year it the web became more part of culture, the more they felt threatened.
I suppose I do think generations do have some grounding - it's what you're exposed to when you're young. It's the Douglas Adams quote.
posted by treblekicker at 6:53 AM on March 20 [4 favorites]
Harrumph. BBSes started in the late '70s and Usenet in the early '80s. Kids these days..
Yeah, I know, but I wasn't alive for that (OK, I was alive for the birth of Usenet, but not literate), and vis-a-vis Internet culture, anyone using social telecommunications prior to the mid-90s was functionally an early adopter of that technology —obviously not an early adopter for BBSes or Usenet in particular, which were near the end of their glory years.
posted by jackbishop at 6:54 AM on March 20 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I know, but I wasn't alive for that (OK, I was alive for the birth of Usenet, but not literate), and vis-a-vis Internet culture, anyone using social telecommunications prior to the mid-90s was functionally an early adopter of that technology —obviously not an early adopter for BBSes or Usenet in particular, which were near the end of their glory years.
posted by jackbishop at 6:54 AM on March 20 [2 favorites]
Things I forgot to add to my list:
- Satanic panic
- razors in the apples
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:02 AM on March 20 [6 favorites]
- Satanic panic
- razors in the apples
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:02 AM on March 20 [6 favorites]
My parents stayed married but I hit most of grumpybear69's list, except for the stuff that's different because I'm not American (didn't watch Danger Mouse, Count Duckula; didn't drive to lunch in high school because it was pretty rare for my cohort to have a car until after you moved out of your parents' house, have never played Oregon Trail but did get sexually harassed by adult men on BBSes as a teen).
treblekicker, I know what you mean about the divide in computer literacy in offices. I'm a secretary and my bosses have typically been a generation older than me, and I was the uncool kid who had a computer in the early 80s because my Dad was an early adopter. Most of my bosses have required some remedial computer tutoring up until maybe the last decade. It's a generational thing for sure but also, lots of individuals of their generation embraced this tech and know way more about it than me, so you can't make assumptions.
Generations are useful to talk about populations, in broad strokes, but not really for individuals.
posted by joannemerriam at 7:22 AM on March 20 [2 favorites]
treblekicker, I know what you mean about the divide in computer literacy in offices. I'm a secretary and my bosses have typically been a generation older than me, and I was the uncool kid who had a computer in the early 80s because my Dad was an early adopter. Most of my bosses have required some remedial computer tutoring up until maybe the last decade. It's a generational thing for sure but also, lots of individuals of their generation embraced this tech and know way more about it than me, so you can't make assumptions.
Generations are useful to talk about populations, in broad strokes, but not really for individuals.
posted by joannemerriam at 7:22 AM on March 20 [2 favorites]
FWIW, Danger Mouse was a British cartoon that we Americans only saw because Nickelodeon rebroadcast it here.
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:28 AM on March 20 [4 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:28 AM on March 20 [4 favorites]
We are Generation Jones. We are OG punk rockers. Do not call us boomers.
To add to that, we're the people who had to sit through the "boomer boom" of the mid-to-late 80s. The Big Chill. Thirtysomething. The Grateful Dead singing "Touch of Grey". The endless, mindless self-absorption of people who just couldn't let go of that gauzy idealized memory of their coming-of-age in the sixties, and the sneaking suspicion that it was all floating by on a river of hypocrisy.
Trust me, we invented boomer hate, and we were working from a pretty solid foundation.
(Being a little dramatic here, I probably wouldn't react the same way today, but this illustrates the feeling at the time.)
posted by gimonca at 7:31 AM on March 20 [17 favorites]
To add to that, we're the people who had to sit through the "boomer boom" of the mid-to-late 80s. The Big Chill. Thirtysomething. The Grateful Dead singing "Touch of Grey". The endless, mindless self-absorption of people who just couldn't let go of that gauzy idealized memory of their coming-of-age in the sixties, and the sneaking suspicion that it was all floating by on a river of hypocrisy.
Trust me, we invented boomer hate, and we were working from a pretty solid foundation.
(Being a little dramatic here, I probably wouldn't react the same way today, but this illustrates the feeling at the time.)
posted by gimonca at 7:31 AM on March 20 [17 favorites]
I maintain that the dividing line between boomers and GenX is whether you liked or hated "Prairie Home Companion".
posted by donpardo at 7:37 AM on March 20 [9 favorites]
posted by donpardo at 7:37 AM on March 20 [9 favorites]
- Satanic panic
- razors in the apples
♫ We didn't start the fire ♫
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:39 AM on March 20 [16 favorites]
- razors in the apples
♫ We didn't start the fire ♫
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:39 AM on March 20 [16 favorites]
A while back I made a chart that summed up all the age ranges given for the generations currently living in the US. I was definitely struck by discovering that multiple people want to split the second half of the Boomers into “Generation Jones”, whose defining characteristic is “being the first people to get fucked over by discovering that the Boomers already had everything and didn’t want to let it go”. It was also really interesting to see just how fuzzy the definitions are. There’s about five years of disputed territory around either end of the chunks of twelve or so years that are generally seen as Boomer, X, or Millennial, but only about five years that are definitely Z after twelve years of maybe-z-maybe-millennial.
posted by egypturnash at 7:40 AM on March 20 [6 favorites]
posted by egypturnash at 7:40 AM on March 20 [6 favorites]
Is this the proper forum to point out that the X in Generation X wasn't an ordinal, and so subsequent generations being called Y, Z, and Alpha is colossally stupid?
I mean, I don't think this was unknown? It's not like there was a Generation W preceding X. Honestly, I thought it was reasonably clever. If there were a generation inexplicably into golf called Generation Fore, I wouldn't be surprised if the next one became Generation Five. At least in this case, there was a pretty cool double meaning, like they are a generation of curiosity. I honestly thought it was a bummer when "Millennial" became the more common term.
I do hope Z and Alpha get something else like Millennials eventually did though, because without a double meaning, your cohort is literally just being defined by what precedes it, and that is much less cool.
posted by solotoro at 7:41 AM on March 20 [1 favorite]
I mean, I don't think this was unknown? It's not like there was a Generation W preceding X. Honestly, I thought it was reasonably clever. If there were a generation inexplicably into golf called Generation Fore, I wouldn't be surprised if the next one became Generation Five. At least in this case, there was a pretty cool double meaning, like they are a generation of curiosity. I honestly thought it was a bummer when "Millennial" became the more common term.
I do hope Z and Alpha get something else like Millennials eventually did though, because without a double meaning, your cohort is literally just being defined by what precedes it, and that is much less cool.
posted by solotoro at 7:41 AM on March 20 [1 favorite]
Once more, with feeling: ALL GENERATIONAL CATEGORIES ARE COMPLETELY ARBITRARY, NONE OF THEM HAVE ANY SCIENTIFIC BASIS WHATSOEVER, THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF THE SO CALLED BABY BOOMERS WAS INVENTED BY THEIR PARENTS TO MARKET SHIT TO THEM, AND NOW THE CONCEPT IS PROMULGATED BY THE RULING CLASS AND THEIR LACKEYS TO DIVIDE AND DISTRACT PEOPLE FROM THE ENDEMIC AND WORSENING PROBLEMS OF LATE STAGE CAPITALISM. Thank you and good night.
Yeah, it's consumerism all the way down, but the Baby Boomers actually have the distinction of being the only generational category that isn't completely arbitrary. If you look at the graph for U.S. fertility rate from 1800 to 2020, there is a consistent pattern of fertility decline that begins as early as 1800, except for a temporary bulge that begins about 1940. Inside that bulge is the baby boom. You can argue that there is an element of arbitrariness in that the increase in the birth rate actually started circa 1940, not after World War II specifically, but the Baby Boom is linked to a real thing that happened.
The Baby Boom cohort was so large that American institutions, starting with public schools in the 1950s, then followed by colleges in the 1960s, simply couldn't handle the sheer numbers of Baby Boomers entering new institutions that didn't have enough carrying capacity for them. We're still experiencing this now that the Baby Boom has aged enough that they're starting to need Social Security, nursing homes, end-of-life care etc. The other generational categories are mostly shaped by being in the wake of the Baby Boom. After all, Generation X was originally called "the Baby Bust" generation before it was Generation X.
Any generation as gargantuanly large as the Baby Boom was going to have world-historical consequences. The only problem is that some Boomers think those world-historical consequences is proof of how special they are.
posted by jonp72 at 7:43 AM on March 20 [17 favorites]
Yeah, it's consumerism all the way down, but the Baby Boomers actually have the distinction of being the only generational category that isn't completely arbitrary. If you look at the graph for U.S. fertility rate from 1800 to 2020, there is a consistent pattern of fertility decline that begins as early as 1800, except for a temporary bulge that begins about 1940. Inside that bulge is the baby boom. You can argue that there is an element of arbitrariness in that the increase in the birth rate actually started circa 1940, not after World War II specifically, but the Baby Boom is linked to a real thing that happened.
The Baby Boom cohort was so large that American institutions, starting with public schools in the 1950s, then followed by colleges in the 1960s, simply couldn't handle the sheer numbers of Baby Boomers entering new institutions that didn't have enough carrying capacity for them. We're still experiencing this now that the Baby Boom has aged enough that they're starting to need Social Security, nursing homes, end-of-life care etc. The other generational categories are mostly shaped by being in the wake of the Baby Boom. After all, Generation X was originally called "the Baby Bust" generation before it was Generation X.
Any generation as gargantuanly large as the Baby Boom was going to have world-historical consequences. The only problem is that some Boomers think those world-historical consequences is proof of how special they are.
posted by jonp72 at 7:43 AM on March 20 [17 favorites]
I maintain that the dividing line between boomers and GenX is whether you liked or hated "Prairie Home Companion".
I would agree (since I hate that show and especially the smarmy presenter), but I've known a lot of people my age and younger who loved it. There's no accounting for taste.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:47 AM on March 20 [1 favorite]
I would agree (since I hate that show and especially the smarmy presenter), but I've known a lot of people my age and younger who loved it. There's no accounting for taste.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:47 AM on March 20 [1 favorite]
I saw a thing that said:
If you don't remember the moon landing, you're Gen X.
If you don't remember the Challenger disaster, you're a Millennial.
If you don't remember 9/11, you're Gen Z.
If you don't remember Harambe's death, you're Gen Alpha.
I thought that was kind of an interesting way of doing it.
posted by nushustu at 7:49 AM on March 20 [21 favorites]
If you don't remember the moon landing, you're Gen X.
If you don't remember the Challenger disaster, you're a Millennial.
If you don't remember 9/11, you're Gen Z.
If you don't remember Harambe's death, you're Gen Alpha.
I thought that was kind of an interesting way of doing it.
posted by nushustu at 7:49 AM on March 20 [21 favorites]
The other generational categories are mostly shaped by being in the wake of the Baby Boom. After all, Generation X was originally called "the Baby Bust" generation before it was Generation X.
There was also the "echo boom" before that generation became firmly known as Millennials.
posted by madcaptenor at 7:58 AM on March 20
There was also the "echo boom" before that generation became firmly known as Millennials.
posted by madcaptenor at 7:58 AM on March 20
No, I'm keeping the dividing line firmly at "were you old enough to vote for Reagan in 1980 or 1984, which most (*) of you guys did."
(*) The nonwhite population of the U.S. in 1984 was around 15%, I will excuse them from this grouping if they want. Speaking of which, the slow but steady and now accelerating increase in the nonwhite population post-~1980--and the white boomers' incapacity to deal with that demographic change from the days of their youth--has had massive impacts on U.S. politics.
posted by praemunire at 8:00 AM on March 20 [3 favorites]
(*) The nonwhite population of the U.S. in 1984 was around 15%, I will excuse them from this grouping if they want. Speaking of which, the slow but steady and now accelerating increase in the nonwhite population post-~1980--and the white boomers' incapacity to deal with that demographic change from the days of their youth--has had massive impacts on U.S. politics.
posted by praemunire at 8:00 AM on March 20 [3 favorites]
I still laugh that we were dubbed "Generation X" because nothing had happened to us yet.
What a cruel way to curse us.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:01 AM on March 20 [7 favorites]
What a cruel way to curse us.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:01 AM on March 20 [7 favorites]
We are OG punk rockers.
As mentioned above, I too belong to the Blank Generation.
The time span for Boomers is stupidly large, and indeed Woodstock and Vietnam, and the potential for participation in each, do seem to be defining features for what has become Boomer "identity".
But the whole thing is astrology with a sociology degree.
posted by Ayn Marx at 8:04 AM on March 20 [7 favorites]
As mentioned above, I too belong to the Blank Generation.
The time span for Boomers is stupidly large, and indeed Woodstock and Vietnam, and the potential for participation in each, do seem to be defining features for what has become Boomer "identity".
But the whole thing is astrology with a sociology degree.
posted by Ayn Marx at 8:04 AM on March 20 [7 favorites]
I was born in 1976 and remember when the Dead were still touring when I was a freshman in high school. You had your new hippies/flower children in my cohort, who wore tie-dye and Birkenstocks, and went to Dead shows. It's so weird to think of that now. The three distinct subcultures of my area/era were: new hippies, Goths, and the nerdier kids who were into RPGs and etc. (Weirdos all overlapped, though. Sort of strength in numbers.)
While I do identify as Gen X, I definitely still felt late to the party. Remember when HR PufnStuf and all Sid and Marty Kroft nostalgia was big? I do, and I remember being baffled by it because it was never something I watched as a kid. Same for the Partridge Family and the Carpenters. (The Carpenters I associate with my mom's generation.) Again, the cool bands from 1989-1993 were still about seven to ten years older than me at a minimum so their childhood memories were always going to be different.
The cartoons I loved as a kid were definitely old school Scooby-Doo (my sister and I still talk about the Mama Cass episode), Smurfs, She-Ra and He-Man, GI Joe, Snorks (sp?), Rainbow Brite, Care Bears.
posted by Kitteh at 8:14 AM on March 20 [7 favorites]
While I do identify as Gen X, I definitely still felt late to the party. Remember when HR PufnStuf and all Sid and Marty Kroft nostalgia was big? I do, and I remember being baffled by it because it was never something I watched as a kid. Same for the Partridge Family and the Carpenters. (The Carpenters I associate with my mom's generation.) Again, the cool bands from 1989-1993 were still about seven to ten years older than me at a minimum so their childhood memories were always going to be different.
The cartoons I loved as a kid were definitely old school Scooby-Doo (my sister and I still talk about the Mama Cass episode), Smurfs, She-Ra and He-Man, GI Joe, Snorks (sp?), Rainbow Brite, Care Bears.
posted by Kitteh at 8:14 AM on March 20 [7 favorites]
The Baby Boom cohort was so large that American institutions, starting with public schools in the 1950s, then followed by colleges in the 1960s, simply couldn't handle the sheer numbers of Baby Boomers entering new institutions that didn't have enough carrying capacity for them.
This was more a factor of the Great Depression than a generational thing. Literally huge percentages of US cities were destroyed in between 1920-1940 due to financial effects of the Great Depression, and that's also why the housing boom following the war was so dramatic.
Also, comparatively boomers were large as a percentage of the US population, but numerically Gen-X was only slightly smaller and Millennials are numerically larger than the Boomers.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:20 AM on March 20 [1 favorite]
This was more a factor of the Great Depression than a generational thing. Literally huge percentages of US cities were destroyed in between 1920-1940 due to financial effects of the Great Depression, and that's also why the housing boom following the war was so dramatic.
Also, comparatively boomers were large as a percentage of the US population, but numerically Gen-X was only slightly smaller and Millennials are numerically larger than the Boomers.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:20 AM on March 20 [1 favorite]
While I do identify as Gen X, I definitely still felt late to the party. Remember when HR PufnStuf and all Sid and Marty Kroft nostalgia was big? I do, and I remember being baffled by it because it was never something I watched as a kid.
Shit, I was the right age to have watched Sid and Marty Kroft and I still didn't. Nor HR PufnStuf or the Banana Splits. I was Bugs Bunny and Scooby Doo and Schoolhouse Rock instead.
In terms of "If you remember [blank] you were GenX" I would say The Day After.* And in terms of the Late Boomer/Early GenX divide, I would go with what age you were when you found out about the full destructive capability of nuclear weapons. If you were in college, I'd argue you belong in the Boomers; if you were in high school or younger, I'd put you into GenX. Because knowing about the full destructive force of thermonuclear war as a kid absolutely fucked me up but good, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.
I also made a very convincing argument in a college course that Generation X was going to have a big impact in preventing nuclear war - because we all got the bejesus scared out of us with that childhood knowledge of war, I argued, we were going to be unconsciously carrying that with us and it would affect how we voted, who we voted for, and how we would lead. ...And 20 years later: Barack Obama made great strides in disarmament during his administration, and according to some yardsticks, he is a member of Generation X. I rest my case.
* I belong to a small local Movie Club on Meetup, and went to see Oppenheimer with them; I'm the oldest by far of the members, most of them are Gen Z. After the movie I was chatting with some of the other members and said that I was a little concerned how I would handle the blast imagery "since I was only 13 when I saw The Day After and it left me with a bit of a trigger." They all looked puzzled and asked "The Day After? What's that?"
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:28 AM on March 20 [10 favorites]
Shit, I was the right age to have watched Sid and Marty Kroft and I still didn't. Nor HR PufnStuf or the Banana Splits. I was Bugs Bunny and Scooby Doo and Schoolhouse Rock instead.
In terms of "If you remember [blank] you were GenX" I would say The Day After.* And in terms of the Late Boomer/Early GenX divide, I would go with what age you were when you found out about the full destructive capability of nuclear weapons. If you were in college, I'd argue you belong in the Boomers; if you were in high school or younger, I'd put you into GenX. Because knowing about the full destructive force of thermonuclear war as a kid absolutely fucked me up but good, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.
I also made a very convincing argument in a college course that Generation X was going to have a big impact in preventing nuclear war - because we all got the bejesus scared out of us with that childhood knowledge of war, I argued, we were going to be unconsciously carrying that with us and it would affect how we voted, who we voted for, and how we would lead. ...And 20 years later: Barack Obama made great strides in disarmament during his administration, and according to some yardsticks, he is a member of Generation X. I rest my case.
* I belong to a small local Movie Club on Meetup, and went to see Oppenheimer with them; I'm the oldest by far of the members, most of them are Gen Z. After the movie I was chatting with some of the other members and said that I was a little concerned how I would handle the blast imagery "since I was only 13 when I saw The Day After and it left me with a bit of a trigger." They all looked puzzled and asked "The Day After? What's that?"
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:28 AM on March 20 [10 favorites]
I don't remember the moon landing, because I wasn't born.
I do remember the Challenger disaster, because I was in elementary school.
I don't especially want to be an Xennial, but I suppose it could explain some things.
posted by box at 8:32 AM on March 20 [3 favorites]
I do remember the Challenger disaster, because I was in elementary school.
I don't especially want to be an Xennial, but I suppose it could explain some things.
posted by box at 8:32 AM on March 20 [3 favorites]
I think of the generations as providing some level of common experiences (like, were you born at the right time to go to university when public universities were fully-funded and tuition was cheap?) but differences in things like economic status and culture would far and away override those other generational commonalities.
This. The 50-something, home-owning suburban Gen Xer has a lot more in common with the 75-year-old suburban boomer than with urban or non-home-owning members of their own age cohort.
I do wonder about shared experiences for the generations coming up, though. The death of the all-encompassing monoculture that came with the fracture and collapse of mass media and rise of The Algorithm means that, sure, there might be some overlap in experience, but it's nothing like it was even 15 years ago. The Spongebob generation might be the last one with a set of truly shared media experiences in the US.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:40 AM on March 20 [2 favorites]
This. The 50-something, home-owning suburban Gen Xer has a lot more in common with the 75-year-old suburban boomer than with urban or non-home-owning members of their own age cohort.
I do wonder about shared experiences for the generations coming up, though. The death of the all-encompassing monoculture that came with the fracture and collapse of mass media and rise of The Algorithm means that, sure, there might be some overlap in experience, but it's nothing like it was even 15 years ago. The Spongebob generation might be the last one with a set of truly shared media experiences in the US.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:40 AM on March 20 [2 favorites]
As individuals we each get to be our own precious unique snowflake but sometimes applying hazy and imprecise labels to groups can be useful, so long as you accept that these labels have limits and are not exactly accurate. Sort of like stereotyping entire nations of people (the dutch are very direct and americans are loud). Is it true? Not always. But it can be useful when dealing with millions or even billions of people.
posted by Glibpaxman at 8:57 AM on March 20
posted by Glibpaxman at 8:57 AM on March 20
You can argue that there is an element of arbitrariness in that the increase in the birth rate actually started circa 1940, not after World War II specifically
That's it, actually. It starts in 1940, peaks around 1960, and the decline flattens out around 1980. The "1946 to 1964" boundaries seem to have been decided purely by reversing the last two numerals.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:58 AM on March 20
That's it, actually. It starts in 1940, peaks around 1960, and the decline flattens out around 1980. The "1946 to 1964" boundaries seem to have been decided purely by reversing the last two numerals.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:58 AM on March 20
OK Boomer
OK Renter.
That is fucking savage.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:02 AM on March 20 [10 favorites]
OK Renter.
That is fucking savage.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:02 AM on March 20 [10 favorites]
I remember being scared when I heard the words "nuclear winter" at some point when I was little, but no adult clarified what it was for me, just that the news was very keen on making it clear it could/would happen. I am Challenger explosion school age for sure. We were living in Kentucky at the time. But I don't remember watching the launch in school? I seem to have vague fuzzy memories of being home for some reason. (Which means I probably didn't see it. It's likely.)
posted by Kitteh at 9:06 AM on March 20
posted by Kitteh at 9:06 AM on March 20
As always when these generations things come up, I'm going to point out that the traditional markers used are for white cishet middle-class people and your mileage probably varies the further out you are from that center of gravity. This is all large-scale demographic stuff to the extent it's not made up, and doesn't define us as individuals.
That having been said, I am a very early Gen X kid by the numbers and my ex was Generation Jones (5 years older than I am) and we might have been born in different CENTURIES based on our generational/cultural differences.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 9:12 AM on March 20 [3 favorites]
That having been said, I am a very early Gen X kid by the numbers and my ex was Generation Jones (5 years older than I am) and we might have been born in different CENTURIES based on our generational/cultural differences.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 9:12 AM on March 20 [3 favorites]
Re: an upthread comment about Gen X hallmarks - I wasn't exactly allowed to leave campus to get lunch in high school, even as a senior in 1992-93, but I was on the yearbook staff and I frequently had to pay visits to various businesses in order to do advertising sales. Or at least that's what I and others used as excuses more often than not (sometimes advertising business was part of the trip.) Off we went to Burger King.
posted by emelenjr at 9:17 AM on March 20 [2 favorites]
posted by emelenjr at 9:17 AM on March 20 [2 favorites]
DirtyOldTown... Complete transparency... It's not original to me.
posted by Czjewel at 9:19 AM on March 20 [1 favorite]
posted by Czjewel at 9:19 AM on March 20 [1 favorite]
Let me try to explain my generation in a way that this girl did
We don't pretend to know everything or speak out loud like our parents did
The parks are full of winos and others we forgot
Like the man who drools all day and sits on the city block
We're not Beat
We're not Hip
We're the Brave Generation
And we're [indecipherable]
Written by a guy who was born in 1961, so technically a boomer. Same year as Doug Coupland who, more than anyone, coined the term Generation X.
If I had to place the Boomer/X split anywhere it would probably be along the lines of whether you cracked puberty before or after The Beatles broke up, man walked on the moon, Cable TV moved into the neighbourhood ... so born before/after 1957-58.
posted by philip-random at 9:20 AM on March 20 [1 favorite]
We don't pretend to know everything or speak out loud like our parents did
The parks are full of winos and others we forgot
Like the man who drools all day and sits on the city block
We're not Beat
We're not Hip
We're the Brave Generation
And we're [indecipherable]
Written by a guy who was born in 1961, so technically a boomer. Same year as Doug Coupland who, more than anyone, coined the term Generation X.
If I had to place the Boomer/X split anywhere it would probably be along the lines of whether you cracked puberty before or after The Beatles broke up, man walked on the moon, Cable TV moved into the neighbourhood ... so born before/after 1957-58.
posted by philip-random at 9:20 AM on March 20 [1 favorite]
the traditional markers used are for white cishet middle-class people
Add "American" to that list too. I'm a Gen X American whose Romanian-born spouse just misses being a Millennial by a tick. But many of her childhood memories were chronicled in B&W photos. She grew up with one brand of chewing gum. She had a grandma whose house had an outhouse and no electricity. They traveled by train. They had ration cards. Her childhood is much closer to Greatest Generation folks in some ways.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:30 AM on March 20 [4 favorites]
Add "American" to that list too. I'm a Gen X American whose Romanian-born spouse just misses being a Millennial by a tick. But many of her childhood memories were chronicled in B&W photos. She grew up with one brand of chewing gum. She had a grandma whose house had an outhouse and no electricity. They traveled by train. They had ration cards. Her childhood is much closer to Greatest Generation folks in some ways.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:30 AM on March 20 [4 favorites]
I'm Gen X and really embody the stereotypes, whatever, nobody cares.
But someone upthread was equating generation to star sign, and I have to relate that last week in a class Student 1 was going on about astrology, because I had said it was "total nonsense, but entertaining", and she asked me what my sign was, and I said Capricorn, and she said, "well of course, you're the rational sign, so it makes sense that you'd resist the truth", and while my mouth was hanging open, Student 2 slammed down her water bottle and said "Please shut up about astrology, Charlotte: it's nothing but space racism", and rarely have I been so torn between "hold up" and "let's explore that further".
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 9:33 AM on March 20 [39 favorites]
But someone upthread was equating generation to star sign, and I have to relate that last week in a class Student 1 was going on about astrology, because I had said it was "total nonsense, but entertaining", and she asked me what my sign was, and I said Capricorn, and she said, "well of course, you're the rational sign, so it makes sense that you'd resist the truth", and while my mouth was hanging open, Student 2 slammed down her water bottle and said "Please shut up about astrology, Charlotte: it's nothing but space racism", and rarely have I been so torn between "hold up" and "let's explore that further".
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 9:33 AM on March 20 [39 favorites]
I was idly thinking about "signs" earlier and was wondering if there would have been some very slight validity to the importance of where you were born in the solar calendar at one point in time.
Supposedly, the NHL skews towards players born early in the year due to how cutoff dates work in Canadian youth hockey. If that's true, I guess (Canadian) hockey players tend to be Capricorn, Aquarius, Pisces, etc.
posted by pracowity at 9:34 AM on March 20
Supposedly, the NHL skews towards players born early in the year due to how cutoff dates work in Canadian youth hockey. If that's true, I guess (Canadian) hockey players tend to be Capricorn, Aquarius, Pisces, etc.
posted by pracowity at 9:34 AM on March 20
SPACE!!!! RACISM!!!!!!
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:36 AM on March 20 [10 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:36 AM on March 20 [10 favorites]
METAFILTER: nothing but space racism
posted by philip-random at 10:01 AM on March 20 [3 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 10:01 AM on March 20 [3 favorites]
My generational taxonomy has mostly been:
If you were 13-23 in
50's -- you were the Happy Days generation
60's -- Beatles/free love
70's -- Rock/disco/watergate
80's -- punk/new wave
90's -- grunge/hip hop
00's -- y2k/millenial
10's -- gamer/social media
Also, I hate generational wars. Painting in broad swaths is a disservice to those doing good work and unburdens the shitty people who can hide under the cover of "everyone else is doing it too"
posted by OHenryPacey at 10:15 AM on March 20 [2 favorites]
If you were 13-23 in
50's -- you were the Happy Days generation
60's -- Beatles/free love
70's -- Rock/disco/watergate
80's -- punk/new wave
90's -- grunge/hip hop
00's -- y2k/millenial
10's -- gamer/social media
Also, I hate generational wars. Painting in broad swaths is a disservice to those doing good work and unburdens the shitty people who can hide under the cover of "everyone else is doing it too"
posted by OHenryPacey at 10:15 AM on March 20 [2 favorites]
The later boomers / early Xers are also known as the "13th Generation" from the "13th Gen: Abort, Retry, Ignore, Fail?" book by Howe and Strauss.
posted by mfoight at 10:16 AM on March 20 [1 favorite]
posted by mfoight at 10:16 AM on March 20 [1 favorite]
70's -- Rock/disco/watergate
80's -- punk/new wave
except punk/new wave were more or less invented by "kids" who were teens/early twenties in the mid-late 1970s. I know this because I was there. Not hip enough to grasp it at the time, but they did have the best parties.
It's very accurate that I graduated high school straight into the Disco explosion.
posted by philip-random at 10:24 AM on March 20 [4 favorites]
80's -- punk/new wave
except punk/new wave were more or less invented by "kids" who were teens/early twenties in the mid-late 1970s. I know this because I was there. Not hip enough to grasp it at the time, but they did have the best parties.
It's very accurate that I graduated high school straight into the Disco explosion.
posted by philip-random at 10:24 AM on March 20 [4 favorites]
This was more a factor of the Great Depression than a generational thing. Literally huge percentages of US cities were destroyed in between 1920-1940 due to financial effects of the Great Depression, and that's also why the housing boom following the war was so dramatic.
Also, comparatively boomers were large as a percentage of the US population, but numerically Gen-X was only slightly smaller and Millennials are numerically larger than the Boomers.
The triple whammy of the Great Depression, World War II, and the postwar Baby Boom is more of a "why not both?" explanation for why the 1950s and 1960s were so tumultuous with the "youths" than an either/or explanation.
Millennials are numerically larger than the Boomers now, but a lot of that is due to immigration after 1965, whereas the Baby Boomer cohort was almost entirely native-born due to the restrictive Anglo-Nordic eugenicist immigration laws passed in the 1920s. This leads to very profound political differences across cohorts, simply because of the differences in racial/ethnic composition for the Baby Boom cohort vs. every cohort that came after.
So, while the Baby Boomers numerically overwhelming institutions is no longer unique due to the Millennials, it has a lot different political consequences because Baby Boomers were more racially homogeneous.
posted by jonp72 at 10:26 AM on March 20 [4 favorites]
Also, comparatively boomers were large as a percentage of the US population, but numerically Gen-X was only slightly smaller and Millennials are numerically larger than the Boomers.
The triple whammy of the Great Depression, World War II, and the postwar Baby Boom is more of a "why not both?" explanation for why the 1950s and 1960s were so tumultuous with the "youths" than an either/or explanation.
Millennials are numerically larger than the Boomers now, but a lot of that is due to immigration after 1965, whereas the Baby Boomer cohort was almost entirely native-born due to the restrictive Anglo-Nordic eugenicist immigration laws passed in the 1920s. This leads to very profound political differences across cohorts, simply because of the differences in racial/ethnic composition for the Baby Boom cohort vs. every cohort that came after.
So, while the Baby Boomers numerically overwhelming institutions is no longer unique due to the Millennials, it has a lot different political consequences because Baby Boomers were more racially homogeneous.
posted by jonp72 at 10:26 AM on March 20 [4 favorites]
The later boomers / early Xers are also known as the "13th Generation" from the "13th Gen: Abort, Retry, Ignore, Fail?" book by Howe and Strauss.
Those of us young enough/old enough to have played Vampire: The Masquerade just repressed an involuntary shudder.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 10:42 AM on March 20 [5 favorites]
Those of us young enough/old enough to have played Vampire: The Masquerade just repressed an involuntary shudder.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 10:42 AM on March 20 [5 favorites]
It'll be a while before I forget "space racism." And although I wouldn't be in that generation, I feel like "Abort, Retry, Ignore, Fail" would have been a great name for the cohort between Gen X and Millennials.
As a kid, I remember being puzzled about what "Boomers" exactly meant or stood for, especially since I read a lot of age-inappropriate stuff about them. I loved the song "Boys of Summer," but the line "saw a Deadhead sticker on a Cadillac" sticks out to me even now because that was ... fine? In my world, Cadillacs could be nice, but they weren't Porsches or Mercedes. They belonged to dads or teen brothers, and the Dead was a band for dads and teen brothers. It was hard to figure out what Boomers were sad about sometimes.
posted by Countess Elena at 10:49 AM on March 20 [5 favorites]
As a kid, I remember being puzzled about what "Boomers" exactly meant or stood for, especially since I read a lot of age-inappropriate stuff about them. I loved the song "Boys of Summer," but the line "saw a Deadhead sticker on a Cadillac" sticks out to me even now because that was ... fine? In my world, Cadillacs could be nice, but they weren't Porsches or Mercedes. They belonged to dads or teen brothers, and the Dead was a band for dads and teen brothers. It was hard to figure out what Boomers were sad about sometimes.
posted by Countess Elena at 10:49 AM on March 20 [5 favorites]
Those of us young enough/old enough to have played Vampire: The Masquerade just repressed an involuntary shudder.
Haha I did exactly the same thing. Diablerie for the win!
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 10:52 AM on March 20 [1 favorite]
Haha I did exactly the same thing. Diablerie for the win!
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 10:52 AM on March 20 [1 favorite]
I do hope Z and Alpha get something else like Millennials eventually did though, because without a double meaning, your cohort is literally just being defined by what precedes it“Zoomers” for Gen Z turned out to be apt for reasons no one could have predicted.
posted by mbrubeck at 10:57 AM on March 20 [3 favorites]
Born in 1965 and I have never felt any connection to what media portrayed as the Baby Boomers. I remember mostly being annoyed about it because when 'discovered' Boomers we became awash in Boomer touchstones I could not relate to.
Also, '80s mainstream pop culture made absolutely no sense to me as well, so I never felt in sync with anything.
Going to art school from the small town I grew up in and slowly realizing there was a whole other thing going on; the underground or whatever term might be best, was certainly a huge moment and a massive shift for me, and that's the first time I felt like I belonged anywhere.
Anyways, I am 59, and I certainly do not have the resources that the Boomers are portrayed as having, which might be the most Gen X thing of all.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 11:06 AM on March 20 [4 favorites]
Also, '80s mainstream pop culture made absolutely no sense to me as well, so I never felt in sync with anything.
Going to art school from the small town I grew up in and slowly realizing there was a whole other thing going on; the underground or whatever term might be best, was certainly a huge moment and a massive shift for me, and that's the first time I felt like I belonged anywhere.
Anyways, I am 59, and I certainly do not have the resources that the Boomers are portrayed as having, which might be the most Gen X thing of all.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 11:06 AM on March 20 [4 favorites]
I had totally forgotten about Snorks.
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:19 AM on March 20 [1 favorite]
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:19 AM on March 20 [1 favorite]
These generational labels are about as useful on a day to day basis as what baseball team you root for. I know it's stupid and non-sensical garbage, but I get sucked in so easily.
The only "generation" with any shred of historical reference in living memory is the boomers*. My parents were first-wave and they had me when still young, so I got a full dose of boomer parenting with a little bit of silent in there as well.
The boomer descent** into narcissism and avarice wasn't that much fun to grow up around, but I am well acquainted with the flavor. The only "generation" I see with the potential to go even lower are the oddly-named "millenials". The self-involvement/navel-gazing/look at me/me me me/look at my kid x10^12 inane bullshit runs thick down there.
Imagine if you will, facebook/twitter circa 1985. Or The Berlin Wall might still be up. Might not have been a Challenger mission. Reagan could have had four terms. The '90s could have been the dystopia they wrote about in the '50s.
Oh, forgot to mention that I like measuring by what you remember, because almost everybody I've ever talked to about it had at least one vivid, if malformed early memory, associated with almost anything you could imagine. /editwindowabuse
*Not that it really means anything.
**Not to generalize, just most of my experience.
posted by Sphinx at 11:31 AM on March 20 [1 favorite]
The only "generation" with any shred of historical reference in living memory is the boomers*. My parents were first-wave and they had me when still young, so I got a full dose of boomer parenting with a little bit of silent in there as well.
The boomer descent** into narcissism and avarice wasn't that much fun to grow up around, but I am well acquainted with the flavor. The only "generation" I see with the potential to go even lower are the oddly-named "millenials". The self-involvement/navel-gazing/look at me/me me me/look at my kid x10^12 inane bullshit runs thick down there.
Imagine if you will, facebook/twitter circa 1985. Or The Berlin Wall might still be up. Might not have been a Challenger mission. Reagan could have had four terms. The '90s could have been the dystopia they wrote about in the '50s.
Oh, forgot to mention that I like measuring by what you remember, because almost everybody I've ever talked to about it had at least one vivid, if malformed early memory, associated with almost anything you could imagine. /editwindowabuse
*Not that it really means anything.
**Not to generalize, just most of my experience.
posted by Sphinx at 11:31 AM on March 20 [1 favorite]
“Zoomers” for Gen Z turned out to be apt for reasons no one could have predicted.
I honestly assumed they were called Zoomers because of Zoom. I don't remember hearing this before the pandemic. But it's not so! Merriam-Webster has an interesting little article with some quotes from late 2019 and early (pre-pandemic) 2020; they give a first known use in 2017.. The pandemic probably helped it catch on though.
posted by madcaptenor at 11:32 AM on March 20 [2 favorites]
I honestly assumed they were called Zoomers because of Zoom. I don't remember hearing this before the pandemic. But it's not so! Merriam-Webster has an interesting little article with some quotes from late 2019 and early (pre-pandemic) 2020; they give a first known use in 2017.. The pandemic probably helped it catch on though.
posted by madcaptenor at 11:32 AM on March 20 [2 favorites]
I was born in the early 60s. My parents were 12 in 1945 when the war ended. I don't see how I can be considered a post war Boomer.
As for what's your sign, I am old enough to have had a NY paper license, I also had a copy of my older brother's paper NY license. I went to a bar called "My Father's Place" on Long Island near where I grew up. I was 16 but had my brother's 18 license. Wanted to see a band, I think it was Bobby (Weir) and the Midnights or was it the JGB? Anyway, the bouncer asks to see my ID. I show him my brother's. I know everything on it including the license number. He asks me, "What's your sign?" Totally stumped me. "Uh, I am not into signs, man?" Got bounced that night but came back for the 2nd show the next night.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 11:43 AM on March 20 [3 favorites]
As for what's your sign, I am old enough to have had a NY paper license, I also had a copy of my older brother's paper NY license. I went to a bar called "My Father's Place" on Long Island near where I grew up. I was 16 but had my brother's 18 license. Wanted to see a band, I think it was Bobby (Weir) and the Midnights or was it the JGB? Anyway, the bouncer asks to see my ID. I show him my brother's. I know everything on it including the license number. He asks me, "What's your sign?" Totally stumped me. "Uh, I am not into signs, man?" Got bounced that night but came back for the 2nd show the next night.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 11:43 AM on March 20 [3 favorites]
I loved the song "Boys of Summer," but the line "saw a Deadhead sticker on a Cadillac" sticks out to me even now because that was ... fine?
Well, let's hear from the person who wrote the song:
"I was driving down the San Diego Freeway and got passed by a $21,000 Cadillac Seville, the status symbol of the right-wing upper-middle-class American bourgeoisie – all the guys with the blue blazers with the crests and the grey pants – and there was this Grateful Dead "Deadhead" bumper sticker on it!"
Don Henley, a man who spent the whole of the 1970s making extremely commercial and highly profitable rock music, is pretending he's some kind of self-righteous aging hippie.
Which is more irritating then when he pretended to be a cowboy, but not nearly as irritating as what he'd get up to a few years later.
posted by box at 11:55 AM on March 20 [5 favorites]
Well, let's hear from the person who wrote the song:
"I was driving down the San Diego Freeway and got passed by a $21,000 Cadillac Seville, the status symbol of the right-wing upper-middle-class American bourgeoisie – all the guys with the blue blazers with the crests and the grey pants – and there was this Grateful Dead "Deadhead" bumper sticker on it!"
Don Henley, a man who spent the whole of the 1970s making extremely commercial and highly profitable rock music, is pretending he's some kind of self-righteous aging hippie.
Which is more irritating then when he pretended to be a cowboy, but not nearly as irritating as what he'd get up to a few years later.
posted by box at 11:55 AM on March 20 [5 favorites]
I was asking myself just this morning: "What should I do with all of these CDs? I don't even have a CD player anymore!"
And I answered myself: "It's OK, Boomer."
posted by SPrintF at 11:57 AM on March 20 [1 favorite]
And I answered myself: "It's OK, Boomer."
posted by SPrintF at 11:57 AM on March 20 [1 favorite]
Something I read the other day says what I feel rather well: "I hate being the same age as old people."
(70 next year, since you asked)
posted by 43rdAnd9th at 12:05 PM on March 20 [4 favorites]
(70 next year, since you asked)
posted by 43rdAnd9th at 12:05 PM on March 20 [4 favorites]
As an early 60s baby who was considered Gen X back when the term was coined and read multiple articles at the time about her cohort and how they were just different and terrible, such slackers, no work ethic oh and by the way we're taking social security away, I have always considered myself Gen X. Imagine my surprise when I aged but my generation did not - they moved the goalposts. This is, of course, the most Gen X thing of all. Now I'm 60 and over the last couple years they say I'm a boomer? Fuck right off. I'm too poor to be a boomer. I do remember the moon landing - because my father woke me up and carried me downstairs in my footie pajamas and told me to never, ever forget.
I think if you're born on the cusp you get to choose. I went X long ago.
posted by mygothlaundry at 12:11 PM on March 20 [4 favorites]
I think if you're born on the cusp you get to choose. I went X long ago.
posted by mygothlaundry at 12:11 PM on March 20 [4 favorites]
I'm still amused by the "The Boys of Summer" cover that changed that line to "saw a Black Flag sticker on a Cadillac." (I'm not sure what Henry Rollins is driving these days, but I seem to recall either him mentioning a while back that he was in either a Mercedes or a BMW.)
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:15 PM on March 20 [3 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:15 PM on March 20 [3 favorites]
One time I was driving down the San Diego freeway and I saw a Don Henley sticker on an Acura. That seemed appropriate. And it was on that same drive (going to San Diego for Thanksgiving) that I saw a mall use a Black Flag logo on their display for their Black Friday sales. It's all connected.
posted by downtohisturtles at 12:19 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 12:19 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]
P.S. It was the Ataris' version. Apparently, Henley is not a fan (all the way at the end of this piece).
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:24 PM on March 20
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:24 PM on March 20
Apparently, Henley is not a fan (all the way at the end of this piece).
That link didn't work - Don Henley is more powerful than I thought!
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:28 PM on March 20 [4 favorites]
That link didn't work - Don Henley is more powerful than I thought!
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:28 PM on March 20 [4 favorites]
Age and generational divides are not only artificial they also contribute to another form of divisiveness that the country (The United States of Amnesia) needs less of. We are all in the soup together. You can argue until the sun burns out.
posted by DJZouke at 12:35 PM on March 20
posted by DJZouke at 12:35 PM on March 20
yup, hate on the breaks they got all you want, boomer Americans (of the male variety anyway) had the Vietnam draft hanging over their heads. Yeah, if you were rich, you could just stay in University but who wants to be compelled to be some place they don't want to be?
When I grew tired (to the point of mental instability) of all that academic stuff, I was free to just bail for a while without the threat of jungle warfare. So I got a job driving cab, had my reality expanded in all manner of ways. But then (speaking of generational relevancies) the economy crashed -- worst recession since the Great Depression, and one of the first things people stop doing when they're short on cash is taking cabs. So suddenly those hallowed halls seemed like an okay place to hang out again for a while.
Lucky me. I guess.
posted by philip-random at 12:53 PM on March 20
When I grew tired (to the point of mental instability) of all that academic stuff, I was free to just bail for a while without the threat of jungle warfare. So I got a job driving cab, had my reality expanded in all manner of ways. But then (speaking of generational relevancies) the economy crashed -- worst recession since the Great Depression, and one of the first things people stop doing when they're short on cash is taking cabs. So suddenly those hallowed halls seemed like an okay place to hang out again for a while.
Lucky me. I guess.
posted by philip-random at 12:53 PM on March 20
I would agree (since I hate that show and especially the smarmy presenter), but I've known a lot of people my age and younger who loved it. There's no accounting for taste.
So, you know a lot of Boomers is what you're saying.
posted by donpardo at 12:58 PM on March 20
So, you know a lot of Boomers is what you're saying.
posted by donpardo at 12:58 PM on March 20
Don Henley is more powerful than I thought!
He's no match for the Internet Archive, which offers up this. To set the scene, this is right after Henley tried to distinguish between Frank Ocean sampling 'Hotel California,' Pharrell Williams borrowing large chunks of 'Got to Give it Up,' Okkervil River covering 'End of the Innocence,' and Led Zeppelin being Led Zeppelin.
Interviewer: Were you OK with the Ataris changing “Deadhead sticker on a Cadillac” to “Black Flag sticker” in their Boys of Summer cover?
Henley: Not really. No, not really. But I wasn’t upset enough to do anything about it. I just went, “OK. Fine.” And if you noticed, we haven’t heard much from the Ataris since then. You know that story, right, what happened to them?
Interviewer: I can’t remember.
Henley: I mean, they wrote some songs, very poorly — they were not very good songwriters — and they put out an album, and the only song that people would want to hear when they did a concert was Boys of Summer. And the lead singer apparently got so angry about it that he had a T-shirt made that said “Who the f— is Don Henley?”, or “Who the hell is Don Henley?” or something like that. And he would apparently wear that on stage (laughs) … and I thought that was really childish. But it was funny at the same time, because it was a clear message to them that they needed to work on their craftsmanship.
(If you, like me, find Don Henley to be a bit of an arrogant prick, this interview is pretty good.)
posted by box at 1:07 PM on March 20 [3 favorites]
He's no match for the Internet Archive, which offers up this. To set the scene, this is right after Henley tried to distinguish between Frank Ocean sampling 'Hotel California,' Pharrell Williams borrowing large chunks of 'Got to Give it Up,' Okkervil River covering 'End of the Innocence,' and Led Zeppelin being Led Zeppelin.
Interviewer: Were you OK with the Ataris changing “Deadhead sticker on a Cadillac” to “Black Flag sticker” in their Boys of Summer cover?
Henley: Not really. No, not really. But I wasn’t upset enough to do anything about it. I just went, “OK. Fine.” And if you noticed, we haven’t heard much from the Ataris since then. You know that story, right, what happened to them?
Interviewer: I can’t remember.
Henley: I mean, they wrote some songs, very poorly — they were not very good songwriters — and they put out an album, and the only song that people would want to hear when they did a concert was Boys of Summer. And the lead singer apparently got so angry about it that he had a T-shirt made that said “Who the f— is Don Henley?”, or “Who the hell is Don Henley?” or something like that. And he would apparently wear that on stage (laughs) … and I thought that was really childish. But it was funny at the same time, because it was a clear message to them that they needed to work on their craftsmanship.
(If you, like me, find Don Henley to be a bit of an arrogant prick, this interview is pretty good.)
posted by box at 1:07 PM on March 20 [3 favorites]
But someone upthread was equating generation to star sign, and I have to relate that last week in a class Student 1 was going on about astrology, because I had said it was "total nonsense, but entertaining", and she asked me what my sign was, and I said Capricorn, and she said, "well of course, you're the rational sign, so it makes sense that you'd resist the truth", and while my mouth was hanging open, Student 2 slammed down her water bottle and said "Please shut up about astrology, Charlotte: it's nothing but space racism"
My position on generational cohorts is that they are real, but they are not as important as the Discourse says they are. The size of generational cohorts & the fluctuations of the birth rate that shrink or expand generational cohorts has massive macroeconomic consequences & plays even a minor role in affecting economic boom & bust cycles.
But the problem is that most of the Discourse about generations is primarily based around Zeitgeist or vibes-based. Certainly, if you are doing cultural history or intellectual history, looking at birthdates does matter, because artistic movements or intellectual movements often cluster around people who are about the same age, but the range of ages for people in the cluster are usually much, much narrower than the 18-year slice taken up by the Baby Boom or the approximately 15 years taken up by Generation X.
In contemporary America, you're lucky if you can maintain a vibe shift for longer than 4 years it takes for a cycle of freshman to seniors to go through high school or college. That's why a lot of the generational cohort discourse is like zodiac signs for self-appointed lifestyle sociologists. The cohorts are too broad to be correlated to the micro-trends attributed to them.
posted by jonp72 at 1:09 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
My position on generational cohorts is that they are real, but they are not as important as the Discourse says they are. The size of generational cohorts & the fluctuations of the birth rate that shrink or expand generational cohorts has massive macroeconomic consequences & plays even a minor role in affecting economic boom & bust cycles.
But the problem is that most of the Discourse about generations is primarily based around Zeitgeist or vibes-based. Certainly, if you are doing cultural history or intellectual history, looking at birthdates does matter, because artistic movements or intellectual movements often cluster around people who are about the same age, but the range of ages for people in the cluster are usually much, much narrower than the 18-year slice taken up by the Baby Boom or the approximately 15 years taken up by Generation X.
In contemporary America, you're lucky if you can maintain a vibe shift for longer than 4 years it takes for a cycle of freshman to seniors to go through high school or college. That's why a lot of the generational cohort discourse is like zodiac signs for self-appointed lifestyle sociologists. The cohorts are too broad to be correlated to the micro-trends attributed to them.
posted by jonp72 at 1:09 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
Henley: Not really. No, not really. But I wasn’t upset enough to do anything about it. I just went, “OK. Fine.” And if you noticed, we haven’t heard much from the Ataris since then. You know that story, right, what happened to them?
So my husband was in a band in college that the lead singer of the Ataris was obsessed with. He was in middle school/high school at the time. When the Ataris got big, he called one day and said that the band would be in town on tour and would the old college band like to do a cover of one of their songs with him during the Ataris' set? Well, OF COURSE. So that happened and then the Ataris took a break and the lead singer asked the old college band to record some songs but he ended up skipping out on the bill so my husband and his bandmates sold all of his equipment that he left in the practice space to pay for the recording.
I hate Don Henley. But I hate Kris Roe even more.
posted by cooker girl at 1:25 PM on March 20 [13 favorites]
So my husband was in a band in college that the lead singer of the Ataris was obsessed with. He was in middle school/high school at the time. When the Ataris got big, he called one day and said that the band would be in town on tour and would the old college band like to do a cover of one of their songs with him during the Ataris' set? Well, OF COURSE. So that happened and then the Ataris took a break and the lead singer asked the old college band to record some songs but he ended up skipping out on the bill so my husband and his bandmates sold all of his equipment that he left in the practice space to pay for the recording.
I hate Don Henley. But I hate Kris Roe even more.
posted by cooker girl at 1:25 PM on March 20 [13 favorites]
That's it, actually. It starts in 1940, peaks around 1960, and the decline flattens out around 1980. The "1946 to 1964" boundaries seem to have been decided purely by reversing the last two numerals.
It sure looks that way, but now I remember why the demographers sliced the boundaries the way they did. It's based on the general fertility rate trend in the U.S. from the turn of 20th century until now. Total fertility rate uses general population as the denominator, but general fertility rate uses women of childbearing age as the denominator. The reason 1946 and 1964 were picked as the boundaries for the Baby Boom is that 1946 to 1964 is the only period after both the Depression and World War II where general fertility rate was over 100 births per 1000 females aged 15-44. If my math's right, that's about 10% of women of childbearing age being pregnant each year. General fertility rate ended up below 100 births per 1000 females again in 1965 & it has never gotten above 100 again since then. Current general fertility rate has held steady at about 60 births per year per 1000 women of childbearing age from the mid-70s until now.
posted by jonp72 at 1:28 PM on March 20 [3 favorites]
It sure looks that way, but now I remember why the demographers sliced the boundaries the way they did. It's based on the general fertility rate trend in the U.S. from the turn of 20th century until now. Total fertility rate uses general population as the denominator, but general fertility rate uses women of childbearing age as the denominator. The reason 1946 and 1964 were picked as the boundaries for the Baby Boom is that 1946 to 1964 is the only period after both the Depression and World War II where general fertility rate was over 100 births per 1000 females aged 15-44. If my math's right, that's about 10% of women of childbearing age being pregnant each year. General fertility rate ended up below 100 births per 1000 females again in 1965 & it has never gotten above 100 again since then. Current general fertility rate has held steady at about 60 births per year per 1000 women of childbearing age from the mid-70s until now.
posted by jonp72 at 1:28 PM on March 20 [3 favorites]
Thanks to 3.2.3 for introducing me to the term Generation Jones. Fits my family dynamics too (my siblings are such boomers). Though for what it's worth most of my friends are 10 years younger than I am, so I feel more like Gen X.
It's all dumb stuff, but I think going by decades would make slightly more sense, as OHenryPacey does above.
posted by zompist at 2:04 PM on March 20
It's all dumb stuff, but I think going by decades would make slightly more sense, as OHenryPacey does above.
posted by zompist at 2:04 PM on March 20
(If you, like me, find Don Henley to be a bit of an arrogant prick
Is it the teachers fault? Oh no.
Is it mamma's fault? Oh no.
Is it society's fault? Oh no.
Is it Don's fault? Oh no!
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:20 PM on March 20
Is it the teachers fault? Oh no.
Is it mamma's fault? Oh no.
Is it society's fault? Oh no.
Is it Don's fault? Oh no!
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:20 PM on March 20
Metafilter:
more irritating then when he pretended to be a cowboy, but not nearly as irritating as what he'd get up to a few years later.
posted by aspersioncast at 2:44 PM on March 20 [3 favorites]
more irritating then when he pretended to be a cowboy, but not nearly as irritating as what he'd get up to a few years later.
posted by aspersioncast at 2:44 PM on March 20 [3 favorites]
I'm another Gen X/Millennial cusper and have never felt like I belonged to anything as coherent as a generation.
posted by aspersioncast at 2:47 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
posted by aspersioncast at 2:47 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
subsequent generations being called Y, Z, and Alpha
I'm glad someone remembers micro-generation Y. So forgotten (even more so than Gen X apparently), that it's members are often left wondering or debating on social media about whether they are in the preceding Gen X or the succeeding Millennial generation.
posted by eviemath at 4:35 PM on March 20
I'm glad someone remembers micro-generation Y. So forgotten (even more so than Gen X apparently), that it's members are often left wondering or debating on social media about whether they are in the preceding Gen X or the succeeding Millennial generation.
posted by eviemath at 4:35 PM on March 20
I have a friend born in '62, and she's definitely more Gen X than Boomer.
I think Generation Jones really should be more of a thing in the wide world. Putting them in with Boomers just inflates their numbers. (Hey... is that why they do it? *grin*)
posted by luckynerd at 4:37 PM on March 20
I think Generation Jones really should be more of a thing in the wide world. Putting them in with Boomers just inflates their numbers. (Hey... is that why they do it? *grin*)
posted by luckynerd at 4:37 PM on March 20
Pretty sure I saw a Behind the Music or Cribs or something where Flea, a bass player you might recognize from Young MC’s ‘Bust a Move’ video, showed off the Black Flag sticker on his 7-series BMW.
posted by box at 5:06 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
posted by box at 5:06 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
Flea was also in the film Suburbia, not that one but the 1984 one.
posted by aspersioncast at 6:00 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 6:00 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]
GenX here, born 1967, but this sounds like me:
They're Boomers but without the perks: Many born in 1964 are trying to stay afloat in overpriced real estate markets that made their predecessors rich, while caring for aging parents and trying to help their kids get a financial footing…
the sexual revolution older boomers enjoyed was being shadowed by the AIDS pandemic….
They are caring for aging parents and are trying to help their kids get a financial footing, while social safety nets sag under the bloat left by front-end boomers…
doesn’t have a lavish pension and so she has no plans to retire…
While others are winding down, she is winding up…
“I’m trying to enter my 60s with gusto.”…
Her kids, aged 21 and 23, face challenges with housing and employment greater than those she faced, and she plans to help them out as much as she can…
Helping his parents through their final years has been “something like a part-time job.”
posted by doctornemo at 6:33 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]
They're Boomers but without the perks: Many born in 1964 are trying to stay afloat in overpriced real estate markets that made their predecessors rich, while caring for aging parents and trying to help their kids get a financial footing…
the sexual revolution older boomers enjoyed was being shadowed by the AIDS pandemic….
They are caring for aging parents and are trying to help their kids get a financial footing, while social safety nets sag under the bloat left by front-end boomers…
doesn’t have a lavish pension and so she has no plans to retire…
While others are winding down, she is winding up…
“I’m trying to enter my 60s with gusto.”…
Her kids, aged 21 and 23, face challenges with housing and employment greater than those she faced, and she plans to help them out as much as she can…
Helping his parents through their final years has been “something like a part-time job.”
posted by doctornemo at 6:33 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]
Aaaand here's the clear break away from the Boomer experience:
"“I never had problems affording university on my own. I never had a problem affording housing."
posted by doctornemo at 6:34 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]
"“I never had problems affording university on my own. I never had a problem affording housing."
posted by doctornemo at 6:34 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]
I'm over 60 and I've always felt like I have more in common with Gen X.
My defining event was Watergate.
The first time I voted was for Carter in 1980 (when he lost)
I got my first computer in 1977 (a Cosmac ELF), graduating to an Apple II a few years later.
I was on several local BBSes (anyone remember Modem Over Manhattan), Compuserve, and The Source.
I've always lived in the city (NYC/LA/SF) and I don't drive.
I have pretty wide ranging taste in music from Grateful Dead & Wilco to Arcade Fire & Talking Heads to Youssou N'dour & Tinariwen.
I've worked at a lot of different jobs, and have no retirement savings or pension. I'm currently out of work and struggling and no one will hire someone my age as a software engineer.
posted by mike3k at 6:53 PM on March 20 [3 favorites]
My defining event was Watergate.
The first time I voted was for Carter in 1980 (when he lost)
I got my first computer in 1977 (a Cosmac ELF), graduating to an Apple II a few years later.
I was on several local BBSes (anyone remember Modem Over Manhattan), Compuserve, and The Source.
I've always lived in the city (NYC/LA/SF) and I don't drive.
I have pretty wide ranging taste in music from Grateful Dead & Wilco to Arcade Fire & Talking Heads to Youssou N'dour & Tinariwen.
I've worked at a lot of different jobs, and have no retirement savings or pension. I'm currently out of work and struggling and no one will hire someone my age as a software engineer.
posted by mike3k at 6:53 PM on March 20 [3 favorites]
It just occurred to me that the drinking age went from 18 to 21 when the last of the Boomers turned 18. Not sure why or if coincidence or design, but it was around 1982 that the drinking age nationwide went to 21 because of the threat to take away highway funds if the state did not make the change.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:21 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:21 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]
I vibe more with OHenryPacey's "If you were 13-23 in 60's — Beatles/free love" is my generation, although I mostly closely resemble Countess Elena's "lived quietly hand-to-mouth up to today" cohort.
posted by a humble nudibranch at 10:37 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
posted by a humble nudibranch at 10:37 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]
Add "American" to that list too.
I assumed that, but yes. I've seen Strauss and Howe try to apply their generational cycle to Britain/England all the way back to medieval times and it doesn't work there either. The further away you get in time and space away from where those guys made up that stuff, the less sense it makes.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 10:42 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]
I assumed that, but yes. I've seen Strauss and Howe try to apply their generational cycle to Britain/England all the way back to medieval times and it doesn't work there either. The further away you get in time and space away from where those guys made up that stuff, the less sense it makes.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 10:42 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]
- Was not exposed to Elmo or Duplos
The first Duplo bricks were released in 1969. Duplo received its own branding in 1975.
I had Duplo bricks as a young Gen Xer. I was born in 1974.
posted by Fleebnork at 4:35 AM on March 21 [3 favorites]
The first Duplo bricks were released in 1969. Duplo received its own branding in 1975.
I had Duplo bricks as a young Gen Xer. I was born in 1974.
posted by Fleebnork at 4:35 AM on March 21 [3 favorites]
Fleebnork's comment about Duplos really points out what is so maddening about these convos...so many people say, I didn't experience THAT so I'm this Gen, when people often experience different things for 1,000 different reasons, and time period of those things doesn't always have anything to do with it.
And for those of you acting superior about home ownership - well, that's fine. Enjoy your property (why shame others for renting?) There's people like me, who have no debt. And if the boiler dies tomorrow - I don't have to fix it. This works for me. I love my apartment.
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:54 AM on March 21 [1 favorite]
And for those of you acting superior about home ownership - well, that's fine. Enjoy your property (why shame others for renting?) There's people like me, who have no debt. And if the boiler dies tomorrow - I don't have to fix it. This works for me. I love my apartment.
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:54 AM on March 21 [1 favorite]
"“I never had problems affording university on my own. I never had a problem affording housing."
Traditionally, university education in Canada has been a lot more affordable than the US. Especially around the time these folks would have been of age to get one. (Different now for sure.)
posted by Kitteh at 5:22 AM on March 21
Traditionally, university education in Canada has been a lot more affordable than the US. Especially around the time these folks would have been of age to get one. (Different now for sure.)
posted by Kitteh at 5:22 AM on March 21
Maybe the generational labels are helpful because some of us feel unrepresented otherwise.
posted by grubi at 6:08 AM on March 21 [2 favorites]
posted by grubi at 6:08 AM on March 21 [2 favorites]
People talk about the late boomers being much less well off and having a lot less resources available, and that is definitely true. But I am a late Xer or Xennial or whatever you want to call it, and I had a vastly easier time going to school and getting a home of my own than people who are on paper doing better than me, born two decades later. As nasty as it is for older working class folks (and it nasty) it is worse for a lot of these kids.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 6:43 AM on March 21 [1 favorite]
posted by The Manwich Horror at 6:43 AM on March 21 [1 favorite]
And for those of you acting superior about home ownership - well, that's fine.
'Homeownership' is a boomer thing that indicates 'suburbia' as much as it does age. Over 50% of the residents in every major US city rents. Boston and NYC are the lowest at 34% homeowners, but LA, Dallas, Houston, Chicago, SF, Miami, Philadelphia, Seattle, etc aren't that different.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:31 AM on March 21 [3 favorites]
'Homeownership' is a boomer thing that indicates 'suburbia' as much as it does age. Over 50% of the residents in every major US city rents. Boston and NYC are the lowest at 34% homeowners, but LA, Dallas, Houston, Chicago, SF, Miami, Philadelphia, Seattle, etc aren't that different.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:31 AM on March 21 [3 favorites]
But I am a late Xer or Xennial or whatever you want to call it, and I had a vastly easier time going to school and getting a home of my own than people who are on paper doing better than me, born two decades later
I'm in the same spot. I graduated college right after the dotcom bubble burst and got a (low-paying) tech job, but lived pretty cheaply for a bunch of years and managed to buy a house right before the market really rebounded in my area. On paper I'm making a lot more than I was a few years ago, but I wouldn't be able to buy this house today. Not a chance.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:07 AM on March 21 [1 favorite]
I'm in the same spot. I graduated college right after the dotcom bubble burst and got a (low-paying) tech job, but lived pretty cheaply for a bunch of years and managed to buy a house right before the market really rebounded in my area. On paper I'm making a lot more than I was a few years ago, but I wouldn't be able to buy this house today. Not a chance.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:07 AM on March 21 [1 favorite]
The "1946 to 1964" boundaries seem to have been decided purely by reversing the last two numerals.
1946 was the first year after WWII.
I think the theory goes that people who are born during a major war (in their own country) are so affected by it that it overwhelms the usual 20-year generation markers. So 1940-45 is supposed to be its own generation by that metric.
But also the Silent Generation is 1928-1945 and they were children during WWII.
I'm glad someone remembers micro-generation Y. So forgotten (even more so than Gen X apparently), that it's members are often left wondering or debating on social media about whether they are in the preceding Gen X or the succeeding Millennial generation.
Gen Y and Millennial are the same generation.
posted by joannemerriam at 9:29 AM on March 21 [2 favorites]
1946 was the first year after WWII.
I think the theory goes that people who are born during a major war (in their own country) are so affected by it that it overwhelms the usual 20-year generation markers. So 1940-45 is supposed to be its own generation by that metric.
But also the Silent Generation is 1928-1945 and they were children during WWII.
I'm glad someone remembers micro-generation Y. So forgotten (even more so than Gen X apparently), that it's members are often left wondering or debating on social media about whether they are in the preceding Gen X or the succeeding Millennial generation.
Gen Y and Millennial are the same generation.
posted by joannemerriam at 9:29 AM on March 21 [2 favorites]
The other thing that gets missed in the boomer as homeowner thing is that houses are assets. The boomers are not consuming them, they own them and that means they will be passed down to their children.
So what might seem like a generational solidarity between Millennials who are priced out of the housing market will swiftly get overwhelmed by class divisions between Millennials who have boomer parents with real estate assets and ones who don't.
I know a lot of people have had the same experience I've had where a group of friends from college / first graduate jobs (so - people with similar incomes to start with) have very similar lives until their late 20s early 30s when some members of the group suddenly buy implausibly expensive property and of course everyone knows how that has happened but nobody will talk about it.
posted by atrazine at 10:54 AM on March 21 [5 favorites]
So what might seem like a generational solidarity between Millennials who are priced out of the housing market will swiftly get overwhelmed by class divisions between Millennials who have boomer parents with real estate assets and ones who don't.
I know a lot of people have had the same experience I've had where a group of friends from college / first graduate jobs (so - people with similar incomes to start with) have very similar lives until their late 20s early 30s when some members of the group suddenly buy implausibly expensive property and of course everyone knows how that has happened but nobody will talk about it.
posted by atrazine at 10:54 AM on March 21 [5 favorites]
I know a lot of people have had the same experience I've had where a group of friends from college / first graduate jobs (so - people with similar incomes to start with) have very similar lives until their late 20s early 30s when some members of the group suddenly buy implausibly expensive property and of course everyone knows how that has happened but nobody will talk about it.
When this started happening with people I knew, I was so confused because maybe everyone else knew what was going on, but no one had told me. Since my parents weren't in the position of being able to offer downpayment- or house-sized gifts (or interest-free loans that later get forgiven) , it just wasn't something that had even crossed my mind. But yeah, all of a sudden some people were buying huge historic houses and doing full high-end remodels, while others of us were still renting or maybe buying the smallest "starter home" available.
posted by Dip Flash at 11:48 AM on March 21 [2 favorites]
When this started happening with people I knew, I was so confused because maybe everyone else knew what was going on, but no one had told me. Since my parents weren't in the position of being able to offer downpayment- or house-sized gifts (or interest-free loans that later get forgiven) , it just wasn't something that had even crossed my mind. But yeah, all of a sudden some people were buying huge historic houses and doing full high-end remodels, while others of us were still renting or maybe buying the smallest "starter home" available.
posted by Dip Flash at 11:48 AM on March 21 [2 favorites]
So according to them I'm not only a boomer (1964), I'm a "tail-end boomer" that "got the short end of the stick." Fantastic. Generation Jones FTW.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:31 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]
posted by kirkaracha at 2:31 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]
I was discussing this topic with my adult kid and they reminded me that when people talk about Boomers, “They’re not talking about you, Mommy. Just like they’re not talking about me when they talk about Millennials.” I take their point.
posted by Peach at 4:23 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]
posted by Peach at 4:23 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]
Gen X was in the sweet spot for music.
From Big Bands to Motown to Rockabilly, to Rock, to Heavy Metal, to Disco, to Punk, to New Wave, to R&B, to rap and hip hop and into grunge and EDM...we have had it all.
The soundtrack to my life is full of references to events, movies and collective activities. We got out, we mixed it up and we worked hard to play hard.
posted by Chuffy at 8:23 PM on March 21
From Big Bands to Motown to Rockabilly, to Rock, to Heavy Metal, to Disco, to Punk, to New Wave, to R&B, to rap and hip hop and into grunge and EDM...we have had it all.
The soundtrack to my life is full of references to events, movies and collective activities. We got out, we mixed it up and we worked hard to play hard.
posted by Chuffy at 8:23 PM on March 21
The boomers are not consuming them, they own them and that means they will be passed down to their children.
Not sure I completely agree with that. A lot of people own homes in the US (and the world) and some percentage of them are 'consumed' ie: complete garbage, and that's one reason that real estate conglomerates are in the news right now buying what sounds like shocking percentages of single family homes, but they are buying mostly the junk being offloaded for cheap that was inherited, and that most people don't want to buy because they don't have the funds to buy a home and then pay double for it to rebuild it.
Also, the age at which people die is extremely variable, so the 'boomer transition of their homes to GenX phenomenon' is going to last about 40 years, there's not going to be grand waves.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:28 AM on March 22
Not sure I completely agree with that. A lot of people own homes in the US (and the world) and some percentage of them are 'consumed' ie: complete garbage, and that's one reason that real estate conglomerates are in the news right now buying what sounds like shocking percentages of single family homes, but they are buying mostly the junk being offloaded for cheap that was inherited, and that most people don't want to buy because they don't have the funds to buy a home and then pay double for it to rebuild it.
Also, the age at which people die is extremely variable, so the 'boomer transition of their homes to GenX phenomenon' is going to last about 40 years, there's not going to be grand waves.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:28 AM on March 22
Also, the age at which people die is extremely variable, so the 'boomer transition of their homes to GenX phenomenon' is going to last about 40 years
And that's assuming that the boomers aren't going to be selling their homes to fund their eldercare and leaving their kids with bupkis. (My parents have warned me that that's likely what's going to happen in their case.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:48 AM on March 22 [1 favorite]
And that's assuming that the boomers aren't going to be selling their homes to fund their eldercare and leaving their kids with bupkis. (My parents have warned me that that's likely what's going to happen in their case.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:48 AM on March 22 [1 favorite]
Not sure I completely agree with that. A lot of people own homes in the US (and the world) and some percentage of them are 'consumed' ie: complete garbage, and that's one reason that real estate conglomerates are in the news right now buying what sounds like shocking percentages of single family homes, but they are buying mostly the junk being offloaded for cheap that was inherited, and that most people don't want to buy because they don't have the funds to buy a home and then pay double for it to rebuild it.
The value of a house has two components, the physical structure itself which is a depreciating asset which can end up worth nothing and the value of the real estate. It is the real estate component which varies massively between parts of the country and which has seen the asset value run-up over the last 40 or so years. Of course some people are inheriting things which aren't worth much but then those assets are in parts of the US where the claim that boomers are "hoarding" housing wealth also doesn't apply since the assets they own aren't actually worth anything.
And that's assuming that the boomers aren't going to be selling their homes to fund their eldercare and leaving their kids with bupkis. (My parents have warned me that that's likely what's going to happen in their case.)
Absolutely but:
a) This is yet another argument against the "boomers are hoarding houses they don't need" school of thought because they're retaining an asset to offset a future care obligation.
b) This is yet another class division. The suburban house in Cleveland is going to be claimed to fund elder care while the brownstone and Long Island summer place are in a trust or carefully transferred to children years before to avoid Medicaid claims on the asset.
posted by atrazine at 8:55 AM on March 22
The value of a house has two components, the physical structure itself which is a depreciating asset which can end up worth nothing and the value of the real estate. It is the real estate component which varies massively between parts of the country and which has seen the asset value run-up over the last 40 or so years. Of course some people are inheriting things which aren't worth much but then those assets are in parts of the US where the claim that boomers are "hoarding" housing wealth also doesn't apply since the assets they own aren't actually worth anything.
And that's assuming that the boomers aren't going to be selling their homes to fund their eldercare and leaving their kids with bupkis. (My parents have warned me that that's likely what's going to happen in their case.)
Absolutely but:
a) This is yet another argument against the "boomers are hoarding houses they don't need" school of thought because they're retaining an asset to offset a future care obligation.
b) This is yet another class division. The suburban house in Cleveland is going to be claimed to fund elder care while the brownstone and Long Island summer place are in a trust or carefully transferred to children years before to avoid Medicaid claims on the asset.
posted by atrazine at 8:55 AM on March 22
And that's assuming that the boomers aren't going to be selling their homes to fund their eldercare and leaving their kids with bupkis. (My parents have warned me that that's likely what's going to happen in their case.)
IMO (and in my experience) that's also way overstated, but it's potentially true for a number of people. And even if I think it's overstated, I say that with the huge caveat that it really depends on if they have a child, other relative, or friend willing take on a lot of unpaid labor to keep them in their home and functioning when they are unable or not.
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:26 AM on March 22
IMO (and in my experience) that's also way overstated, but it's potentially true for a number of people. And even if I think it's overstated, I say that with the huge caveat that it really depends on if they have a child, other relative, or friend willing take on a lot of unpaid labor to keep them in their home and functioning when they are unable or not.
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:26 AM on March 22
Just read an amazing book that sort of ties I to this discussion- Melt With Me by Paul Crenshaw. It's a series of essays about growing up as a Gen X'er - but he dissects things in such a way to suggest that maybe the different generations have more in common than you would think (we may have been scared of nukes while our parents were scared of Commies, but fear of an uncontrolled world was at the root in both cases and is kind of universal).
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:54 AM on March 23 [1 favorite]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:54 AM on March 23 [1 favorite]
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posted by whatevernot at 5:10 AM on March 20 [2 favorites]