Seven agonizing nights aboard the Icon of the Seas
April 6, 2024 9:56 PM Subscribe
Gary Shteyngart on assignment from The Atlantic engages in a supposedly fun thing that he'll never do again, cruising from Florida to St. Kitts and CocoCay on board Royal Caribbean’s Icon of the Seas.
Archive link
Shteyngart's most recent previously. Besides writing articles and five (great!) novels, he also wrote for Succession and The Regime and has a series in development based on his Super Sad True Love Story
Archive link
“When Gary is done I think it’s time this genre was taken out back and shot.” And he is right. To badly paraphrase Adorno: After this, no more cruise stories. It is unfair to put a thinking person on a cruise ship. Writers typically have difficult childhoods, and it is cruel to remind them of the inherent loneliness that drove them to writing in the first place.via Camille Fournier "I should be working on my own writing instead of making myself feel bad about how I will never ever write 1/10th as well as @Shteyngart"
Shteyngart's most recent previously. Besides writing articles and five (great!) novels, he also wrote for Succession and The Regime and has a series in development based on his Super Sad True Love Story
It starts out as a snarky, kind of shallow takedown but ends up being pretty self-aware and having some real heart. I'm going to have to check out more of this guy's writing. This article has been rattling around in the back of my mind since I first read it
posted by treepour at 12:00 AM on April 7 [2 favorites]
posted by treepour at 12:00 AM on April 7 [2 favorites]
Very good piece but, yes, why does this genre persist? The little bit in St. Kitts makes me think I’d rather read Shteyngart’s dispatch from practically anywhere else.
posted by smelendez at 12:10 AM on April 7 [1 favorite]
posted by smelendez at 12:10 AM on April 7 [1 favorite]
I have been pricing cruises for a vacation. My youngest hates holidays and longs for structure. Someone at work was a cruise ship staff for 20 years and still goes on cruises as his family’s preferred vacation. He has a family member with similar challenges and the cruise ship meant they could eat the same pizza and wander around while everyone else did their own thing by too.
What I really want is an introvert’s boat trip. Lots of books, coffee and occasional quiet activities.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 12:55 AM on April 7 [14 favorites]
What I really want is an introvert’s boat trip. Lots of books, coffee and occasional quiet activities.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 12:55 AM on April 7 [14 favorites]
I made it through about half of a YT video tour of Icon of the Seas the other day. It looked like being trapped in an endless, mindless, tasteless, garish shopping mall, corridor after soulless corridor. I have always been mildly interested in going on a cruise someday, and I'm sure there are much better ones, but I'm not so sure if I would still be interested now. At any rate, The Atlantic got their money's worth, and if the reports are this good I don't know why the genre should be cancelled, except I guess it would get harder to top.
posted by blue shadows at 2:27 AM on April 7 [4 favorites]
posted by blue shadows at 2:27 AM on April 7 [4 favorites]
Not a bad article, but I just don't get why it's a genre at all. Nobody goes on a regular cruise ship all alone. It's a couple/family vacation, of course you're going to feel isolated and alienated if you go without a buddy. It's just such a weird stunt to keep throwing writers at.
I've been on a couple of cruises in my life and I like them a lot as a way to travel with kids and get to see a few cities without having to schlep all your damn luggage between those cities. But I'm the kind of introvert that likes doing stuff in the world by myself, including the sort of stuff a lot of people don't like to solo like movies and concerts and restaurants, and I'd never go on a cruise by myself unless it was one of those themed nerd cruises like a Star Trek cruise or something. They serve the meals at communal tables! You'd have to just make conversation with a bunch of randos every night without anybody to make fun of them with afterwards! Worst
posted by potrzebie at 2:52 AM on April 7 [15 favorites]
I've been on a couple of cruises in my life and I like them a lot as a way to travel with kids and get to see a few cities without having to schlep all your damn luggage between those cities. But I'm the kind of introvert that likes doing stuff in the world by myself, including the sort of stuff a lot of people don't like to solo like movies and concerts and restaurants, and I'd never go on a cruise by myself unless it was one of those themed nerd cruises like a Star Trek cruise or something. They serve the meals at communal tables! You'd have to just make conversation with a bunch of randos every night without anybody to make fun of them with afterwards! Worst
posted by potrzebie at 2:52 AM on April 7 [15 favorites]
My main takeaway while reading was "the author is quite sure he's better then everyone else on the ship" and then he goes and makes it explicit in the closing paragraphs. His first descriptor of the other passengers is "yapping". He calls them cult members and then does zero development on the theme. He is absolutely not interested in understanding anything that is happening in the whole venture, only in pointing at it derisively. He blithely accuses his fellow passengers of having no internal life, yet somehow he has the hubris to claim the open sea has "nothing to teach us". Yuck.
DFW did it right; A Supposedly Fun Thing was full of empathy and ennui. This article eschews the former and aims for the latter, but achieves only disdain. Who gave the author this assignment? I think they made a bad choice.
posted by dbx at 4:16 AM on April 7 [20 favorites]
DFW did it right; A Supposedly Fun Thing was full of empathy and ennui. This article eschews the former and aims for the latter, but achieves only disdain. Who gave the author this assignment? I think they made a bad choice.
posted by dbx at 4:16 AM on April 7 [20 favorites]
dbx: Shteyngart is basically a bargain-basement DFW in terms of writing ability and general zeitgeistiness, so that's not surprising.
(To give Shteyngart his due, i'm at least not aware of him being a domestic abuser, unlike DFW.)
posted by adrienneleigh at 4:26 AM on April 7 [4 favorites]
(To give Shteyngart his due, i'm at least not aware of him being a domestic abuser, unlike DFW.)
posted by adrienneleigh at 4:26 AM on April 7 [4 favorites]
My headcanon says they named the ship after this.
posted by mittens at 4:43 AM on April 7 [1 favorite]
posted by mittens at 4:43 AM on April 7 [1 favorite]
Hmm. I don't like working in office buildings, but I've just realized that a cruise ship converted to an office building might be interesting enough to get me to go back to the office willingly. Hire the best people you can find in all the ports along your route. Sail the ship up and down the route, maybe one port per day, ship leaves at midnight. You can live in one of the ports and go to the office only when it's in port (the office comes to you), or you can go with the office/ship up and down the route, maybe across the Pacific or Atlantic and back, or around the edge of the Baltic, or up and down the Danube...
posted by pracowity at 4:47 AM on April 7 [9 favorites]
posted by pracowity at 4:47 AM on April 7 [9 favorites]
You could be on a cruise consisting of Proud Boys or QAnons. That would be fun.
posted by DJZouke at 4:59 AM on April 7 [1 favorite]
posted by DJZouke at 4:59 AM on April 7 [1 favorite]
Wow, tough crowd! This is my introduction to the writing of Mr. Shteyngart, and I enjoyed the read. Lots of great lines:
posted by jeremias at 5:04 AM on April 7 [18 favorites]
I breakfast alone at the Coastal Kitchen. The coffee tastes fine and the eggs came out of a bird.It made me laugh, and that's a win in my book.
posted by jeremias at 5:04 AM on April 7 [18 favorites]
He blithely accuses his fellow passengers of having no internal life, yet somehow he has the hubris to claim the open sea has "nothing to teach us". Yuck.
If you're gonna bash the article, at least use quotes properly and maybe read it. What he actually wrote was, "The ocean is teeming with fascinating life, but on the surface it has little to teach us." (followed by what I thought was one of the more interesting segments of the piece). This, you may notice, is essentially the opposite of "nothing to teach us".
posted by advil at 6:02 AM on April 7 [15 favorites]
If you're gonna bash the article, at least use quotes properly and maybe read it. What he actually wrote was, "The ocean is teeming with fascinating life, but on the surface it has little to teach us." (followed by what I thought was one of the more interesting segments of the piece). This, you may notice, is essentially the opposite of "nothing to teach us".
posted by advil at 6:02 AM on April 7 [15 favorites]
It is also unseemly to write about the kind of people who go on cruises. Our country does not provide the education and upbringing that allow its citizens an interior life. For the creative class to point fingers at the large, breasty gentlemen adrift in tortilla-chip-laden pools of water is to gather a sour harvest of low-hanging fruit.
Oh, for Christ's sake.
posted by BWA at 6:59 AM on April 7 [11 favorites]
Oh, for Christ's sake.
posted by BWA at 6:59 AM on April 7 [11 favorites]
Yes, sorry I wrote nothing instead of little. I still think it's hubristic though. I've reread the section, he doesn't elaborate. It's a segue into a meditation on personal stories. For a person who sets himself apart from the "large, breasty gentlemen adrift in tortilla-chip-laden pools" as a member of "the creative class", it suggests a disappointing lack of romanticism and/or creativity. In other words, there's no evident counterweight to the mean-spiritedness. His musing about the passengers wanting a bigger story paraphrases to me as "these people aren't special but wish they were", and not in the sense of a shared human condition but rather in the sense of "they've chosen a dumb way to deal with that".
As far as bashing goes, yeah sorry to anybody who thoroughly enjoyed the article and finds my take needlessly confrontational. I'm trying to genuinely engage with it, for what it's worth. Yeah, I would dislike the folks he describes too -- would probably get in a fight w Mr. Rand because I know just a little about the author's (Rand's) personal story.
I happen to have a copy of A Supposedly Fun Thing on my shelf and was prompted to reread it in its entirety this lazy Sunday morning. The two pieces share a lot of beats, actually, although the DFW is much much longer. I encourage anybody who liked this piece but is unfamiliar with ASFT to give the latter a read.
posted by dbx at 7:06 AM on April 7 [1 favorite]
As far as bashing goes, yeah sorry to anybody who thoroughly enjoyed the article and finds my take needlessly confrontational. I'm trying to genuinely engage with it, for what it's worth. Yeah, I would dislike the folks he describes too -- would probably get in a fight w Mr. Rand because I know just a little about the author's (Rand's) personal story.
I happen to have a copy of A Supposedly Fun Thing on my shelf and was prompted to reread it in its entirety this lazy Sunday morning. The two pieces share a lot of beats, actually, although the DFW is much much longer. I encourage anybody who liked this piece but is unfamiliar with ASFT to give the latter a read.
posted by dbx at 7:06 AM on April 7 [1 favorite]
See, what he's saying is, the ocean is a desert with its life underground.
posted by LionIndex at 7:26 AM on April 7 [35 favorites]
posted by LionIndex at 7:26 AM on April 7 [35 favorites]
My friend is a musician who performed on a cruise ship. He says he will never do it again, because it's like living in a hotel that you can never leave.
Honestly, as a paying gig, could be much worse. You could be a non-musician cruise ship worker, or a musician who happens to be working on a freighter.
Interesting to see the pushback. Cruise ship articles are usually like red meat for MetaFilter, particularly the MeFites who've never been, and vow to never be. And the article doesn't disappoint. Shteyngart can't help but snark even when being self aware. I would have thought this genre would have been played out by now, sending a well regarded writer on the dreaded cruise ship assignment, but here is The Atlantic giving it another enthusiastic go, as if print media is king and always will be. That's the angle I'm admiring.
posted by 2N2222 at 8:19 AM on April 7 [2 favorites]
Honestly, as a paying gig, could be much worse. You could be a non-musician cruise ship worker, or a musician who happens to be working on a freighter.
Interesting to see the pushback. Cruise ship articles are usually like red meat for MetaFilter, particularly the MeFites who've never been, and vow to never be. And the article doesn't disappoint. Shteyngart can't help but snark even when being self aware. I would have thought this genre would have been played out by now, sending a well regarded writer on the dreaded cruise ship assignment, but here is The Atlantic giving it another enthusiastic go, as if print media is king and always will be. That's the angle I'm admiring.
posted by 2N2222 at 8:19 AM on April 7 [2 favorites]
Given the popular conception of cruise ships as festering pits of disease, you've got to hand it to Royal Caribbean for really leaning into the punnery, in naming their ships. My personal favorites:
Adventure of the Seas
Allure of the Seas
Enchantment of the Seas
Explorer of the Seas
Oasis of the Seas
Rhapsody of the Seas
Spectrum of the Seas
Symphony of the Seas
posted by gurple at 8:59 AM on April 7 [1 favorite]
Adventure of the Seas
Allure of the Seas
Enchantment of the Seas
Explorer of the Seas
Oasis of the Seas
Rhapsody of the Seas
Spectrum of the Seas
Symphony of the Seas
posted by gurple at 8:59 AM on April 7 [1 favorite]
I quite like short boat rides. I've been whale-watching near Seattle, and Bateau-Mouche-ing in Montreal, and eagle-seeking and lock-experiencing on the Mississippi. And so on.
And sure, I'll go alone. Have done, several times. There's a point to these cruises other than c-r-u-i-s-e.
But I contain multitudes, 2N222: I both wouldn't ever go on one of these cruises, and wouldn't want to spend one single solitary second near Shteyngart, who would doubtless use any time spent with me to come up with some way to show his disdainful hatred for me in his next piece of writing. (And as a fat middle-aged ace librarian, I'd provide him myriad targets.)
Basically Shteyngart in this piece (which is to the best of my knowledge the only piece of his I've read) caused me to utter that MeFi staple, "Christ, what an asshole." I quit reading it midway through.
posted by humbug at 9:10 AM on April 7 [4 favorites]
And sure, I'll go alone. Have done, several times. There's a point to these cruises other than c-r-u-i-s-e.
But I contain multitudes, 2N222: I both wouldn't ever go on one of these cruises, and wouldn't want to spend one single solitary second near Shteyngart, who would doubtless use any time spent with me to come up with some way to show his disdainful hatred for me in his next piece of writing. (And as a fat middle-aged ace librarian, I'd provide him myriad targets.)
Basically Shteyngart in this piece (which is to the best of my knowledge the only piece of his I've read) caused me to utter that MeFi staple, "Christ, what an asshole." I quit reading it midway through.
posted by humbug at 9:10 AM on April 7 [4 favorites]
I get how the snark can rub the wrong way. But I thought the author was just self-deprecating enough to make it work. He's not an entirely reliable narrator and we're seeing things from his skewed perspective as someone who is self-admittedly NOT the kind of person who would enjoy what a cruise has to offer. I think there's an implicit undertone of "I wish I could enjoy this like these other people are but I just can't and it's making me sad and bitter." I mean, that's kind of how I feel when my coworkers start talking about sports. In that sense, the joke's on him, and I think he's aware of that
posted by treepour at 9:21 AM on April 7 [8 favorites]
posted by treepour at 9:21 AM on April 7 [8 favorites]
On one hand, I know I am contrarian snoot who gets annoyed by other people’s taste level which is why I don’t often broadcast in detail my Disneyworld takes. On the other hand, cruises aren’t cheap and if you’re earnestly contemplating buying bottomless refill chalice for 100k, I have a hard time thinking about you as the poor and downtrodden and thus somehow beyond snark.
posted by thivaia at 10:06 AM on April 7 [5 favorites]
posted by thivaia at 10:06 AM on April 7 [5 favorites]
It's a couple/family vacation, of course you're going to feel isolated and alienated if you go without a buddy
This is what’s funny to me. I’ve never been on one, but I’ve talked to enough people who have to understand they’re designed to be easy vacations for families and aging couples, with lots of guardrails—you won’t get lost, grandpa can take a nap whenever he needs, the kids have stuff to do, and nobody’s worrying about getting a DUI if they have another cocktail — and all the logistics taken care of. Those aren’t features an adventurous solo traveler wants or needs.
I think between now and when the DFW essay came out we’ve come to understand that better, and move away from the vague idea that cruises are “a supposedly fun thing” for everyone (and the ubiquitous cruise ship ads from ‘90s TV). The humor doesn’t work as well, because ultimately he took an expensive trip designed around a bunch of things he knew all along he doesn’t want and his friends all knew he’d hate.
posted by smelendez at 10:27 AM on April 7 [3 favorites]
This is what’s funny to me. I’ve never been on one, but I’ve talked to enough people who have to understand they’re designed to be easy vacations for families and aging couples, with lots of guardrails—you won’t get lost, grandpa can take a nap whenever he needs, the kids have stuff to do, and nobody’s worrying about getting a DUI if they have another cocktail — and all the logistics taken care of. Those aren’t features an adventurous solo traveler wants or needs.
I think between now and when the DFW essay came out we’ve come to understand that better, and move away from the vague idea that cruises are “a supposedly fun thing” for everyone (and the ubiquitous cruise ship ads from ‘90s TV). The humor doesn’t work as well, because ultimately he took an expensive trip designed around a bunch of things he knew all along he doesn’t want and his friends all knew he’d hate.
posted by smelendez at 10:27 AM on April 7 [3 favorites]
I'm mostly just awed that the Atlantic shelled out the $19,000 for another in this genre.
My parents play the status game (at the low end of the scale.) I have said a lot on how much I hate cruises even though I am aware of their service in providing accessible vacations. Because of these things I did enjoy the takedown.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:37 AM on April 7
My parents play the status game (at the low end of the scale.) I have said a lot on how much I hate cruises even though I am aware of their service in providing accessible vacations. Because of these things I did enjoy the takedown.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:37 AM on April 7
I really liked this, although it started slow. A little ways in, I remembered he was the guy that wrote that really long piece in the New Yorker about the botched circumcision that basically changed the entire trajectory of his whole sexual, physical, and emotional life, and I thought, “well yeah, I’ll walk with him to the corner on this.”
posted by toodleydoodley at 10:45 AM on April 7
posted by toodleydoodley at 10:45 AM on April 7
I liked the article but I’m pretty deeply anti cruise. As far as I’m concerned they’re environmentally disastrous floating disease pits. And then I think about the money. I feel like I have, in recent years, sort of clawed my way back to the middle class but I could no more spend $17,000 on a week’s vacation than I could fly to the moon. And if I could, my god. There is so much more to the world. And there is so much need for that money in most of that ports they visit, but so little of it gets out. Tourism based economies are destructive for everyone involved.
I live in a cruise ship port. I hate them. I went to rent a car for a work trip and the car rental guy told me,” well, I couldn’t get you one if there was a cruise ship in port. They all come in, rent a car, drive down the coast to Tillamook, tour the cheese factory, drive back and get on the ship.”
That’s a 1.5 to 2 hour drive. And the cheese factory is depressing. The mind, it boggles.
Their proponents say, they spend so much money in town! Do they, though? They don’t eat or drink and if they do go to a bar, they’re cheap. Of course they are: I would be too if I was spending that kind of money. I don’t know, I read about self satisfied MAGA types feasting away in oblivion and I think the world is doomed. I mean, I think that already and the cruises are one of the reasons.
posted by mygothlaundry at 10:53 AM on April 7 [18 favorites]
I live in a cruise ship port. I hate them. I went to rent a car for a work trip and the car rental guy told me,” well, I couldn’t get you one if there was a cruise ship in port. They all come in, rent a car, drive down the coast to Tillamook, tour the cheese factory, drive back and get on the ship.”
That’s a 1.5 to 2 hour drive. And the cheese factory is depressing. The mind, it boggles.
Their proponents say, they spend so much money in town! Do they, though? They don’t eat or drink and if they do go to a bar, they’re cheap. Of course they are: I would be too if I was spending that kind of money. I don’t know, I read about self satisfied MAGA types feasting away in oblivion and I think the world is doomed. I mean, I think that already and the cruises are one of the reasons.
posted by mygothlaundry at 10:53 AM on April 7 [18 favorites]
Seems like a good place to remind everyone of the existence of Olivia.
Personally, the only kind of cruise I would consider going on is one to somewhere you couldn't get to otherwise--basically, Antarctica--but I think Shteyngart should try to remember that you can't tell whether anyone has an interior life unless you talk to them for some time.
(Also, buddy, you look like this, so even if manners doesn't teach you otherwise, perhaps someone should tell you that it's graceless and embarrassing to take out those Manhattan-5 feelings on the bodies of Midwesterners, mmmkay?)
posted by praemunire at 10:53 AM on April 7 [9 favorites]
Personally, the only kind of cruise I would consider going on is one to somewhere you couldn't get to otherwise--basically, Antarctica--but I think Shteyngart should try to remember that you can't tell whether anyone has an interior life unless you talk to them for some time.
(Also, buddy, you look like this, so even if manners doesn't teach you otherwise, perhaps someone should tell you that it's graceless and embarrassing to take out those Manhattan-5 feelings on the bodies of Midwesterners, mmmkay?)
posted by praemunire at 10:53 AM on April 7 [9 favorites]
I could no more spend $1[9],000 on a week’s vacation than I could fly to the moon. And if I could, my god. There is so much more to the world.
I'm planning a milestone birthday trip for myself, and...yeah. But then I think, I don't have little kids to worry about, or aging parents. And I can walk unaided for miles, and I'm not on chemo. It's not that I don't know where Shteyngart's coming from, it's just that I recognize that place as one of my nastier ones, where legitimate objections get muddled up with aesthetic ones, childhood traumas, and a very complicated relationship to the class hierarchy.
posted by praemunire at 11:03 AM on April 7 [1 favorite]
I'm planning a milestone birthday trip for myself, and...yeah. But then I think, I don't have little kids to worry about, or aging parents. And I can walk unaided for miles, and I'm not on chemo. It's not that I don't know where Shteyngart's coming from, it's just that I recognize that place as one of my nastier ones, where legitimate objections get muddled up with aesthetic ones, childhood traumas, and a very complicated relationship to the class hierarchy.
posted by praemunire at 11:03 AM on April 7 [1 favorite]
Is the author pretending to be a bit daft and/entitled to rile us up? If so it both worked but also turned me off from finishing. From what I've read so far he set himself up for a bad time, had a bad time, then wrote an article complaining that the bad time cost $19k. His over the top reaction to hearing the word "aft" reminds me of the "American goes to foreign country then complains that nobody speaks English" trope.
I look forward to the next few articles in this series:
"Classical Orchestra Floutist pays big bucks for front row Taylor Swift ticket, is disappointed when audience is full of teenagers in sequins instead of tuxedo clad upper crust types. I spent $19,000 on this ticket and they didn't play any woodwinds!"
"Gluten intolerant wine snob goes to local craft beer joint, has a bad time."
posted by mrgoldenbrown at 11:52 AM on April 7 [10 favorites]
I look forward to the next few articles in this series:
"Classical Orchestra Floutist pays big bucks for front row Taylor Swift ticket, is disappointed when audience is full of teenagers in sequins instead of tuxedo clad upper crust types. I spent $19,000 on this ticket and they didn't play any woodwinds!"
"Gluten intolerant wine snob goes to local craft beer joint, has a bad time."
posted by mrgoldenbrown at 11:52 AM on April 7 [10 favorites]
A couple decades ago, cruise ships were all "one class" as opposed to ocean liners which everyone has heard about (Titanic!) but don't exist anymore except for the Queen Mary 2 (that one still has three categories although they're not called first/second/steerage anymore and even the most inexpensive class is still very very nice). If you truly want to veg out reading on your balcony and staring at the ocean, a transatlantic passage is your best option but of course it is a lot more expensive than flying from NYC to the UK.
Cruise ships are like package tours (7 days and 6 nights, capitals of Europe!!) in that 1) everything--meals, accommodation, sightseeing, entertainment-- is supplied for you and you know the (approx) cost up front and 2) self-contained, like an all-inclusive resort. I bet the Venn diagram for these three options is practically overlapping.
I think if cruise ships were still "one class", no restrictions as to which dining room to eat in or what entertainment lounge to drink in, they would've stagnated years ago since they travel the same routes, and dock at the same islands. Now the experience IS the ship and the competitiveness is what keeps them coming back.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 12:40 PM on April 7
Cruise ships are like package tours (7 days and 6 nights, capitals of Europe!!) in that 1) everything--meals, accommodation, sightseeing, entertainment-- is supplied for you and you know the (approx) cost up front and 2) self-contained, like an all-inclusive resort. I bet the Venn diagram for these three options is practically overlapping.
I think if cruise ships were still "one class", no restrictions as to which dining room to eat in or what entertainment lounge to drink in, they would've stagnated years ago since they travel the same routes, and dock at the same islands. Now the experience IS the ship and the competitiveness is what keeps them coming back.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 12:40 PM on April 7
I wonder how David Foster Wallace would feel about snoot-on-a-cruise turning out to have a more lasting legacy than everything else he ever wrote put together, but, also, I kinda don't care.
posted by box at 12:52 PM on April 7 [9 favorites]
posted by box at 12:52 PM on April 7 [9 favorites]
Now the experience IS the ship and the competitiveness is what keeps them coming back.
I think that really is increasingly true - as well as a very well-trained sales force. My parents have their own assigned salesperson on their cruise line of choice, who keeps up on them and their kids (my family went on a cruise with my parents for my mum's 70th birthday, the last cruise I intend to take unless I luck on a fjords trip someday) and calls them with special deals and basically makes them feel really important. They also let them know if their points are about to expire and so on and so forth. It's a great technique. I liked the cult comparisons in this piece.
For my parents it really is about the Disney-like atmosphere. The way the staff treat them. The lack of anything inconvenient or disturbing (for some value of disturbing...I find lots of things on cruises disturbing) and the way they can feel well-travelled without ever feeling lost or out of place. Frictionless. That's one reason I personally find my parents' love of cruising tough to take, because that desire for frictionless living was such a force when I was young and under their control. That's very personal but I do tend to think it has a societal edge to it.
posted by warriorqueen at 12:56 PM on April 7 [11 favorites]
I think that really is increasingly true - as well as a very well-trained sales force. My parents have their own assigned salesperson on their cruise line of choice, who keeps up on them and their kids (my family went on a cruise with my parents for my mum's 70th birthday, the last cruise I intend to take unless I luck on a fjords trip someday) and calls them with special deals and basically makes them feel really important. They also let them know if their points are about to expire and so on and so forth. It's a great technique. I liked the cult comparisons in this piece.
For my parents it really is about the Disney-like atmosphere. The way the staff treat them. The lack of anything inconvenient or disturbing (for some value of disturbing...I find lots of things on cruises disturbing) and the way they can feel well-travelled without ever feeling lost or out of place. Frictionless. That's one reason I personally find my parents' love of cruising tough to take, because that desire for frictionless living was such a force when I was young and under their control. That's very personal but I do tend to think it has a societal edge to it.
posted by warriorqueen at 12:56 PM on April 7 [11 favorites]
Agree the frictionlessness is certainly a selling point. Have never been on a cruise, nor gone to an all-inclusive resort. We always did it the hard way. And with 4 kids of various ages, there was most always friction. But these cruise ships have so much stuff going on, and can certainly see the appeal of essentially letting your kids do all the fun stuff, while you relax.
Still, not going on a cruise. Carribean all-inclusive resort? Maybe.
posted by Windopaene at 1:20 PM on April 7
Still, not going on a cruise. Carribean all-inclusive resort? Maybe.
posted by Windopaene at 1:20 PM on April 7
dorothyisunderwood: What I really want is an introvert’s boat trip. Lots of books, coffee and occasional quiet activities.
You're a person after my own heart. I've been on one cruise in my life — an Alaska cruise with family, including elderly parents. It was nice in the way that it served as a moving hotel from which family excursions could be planned at each port. However, by the midpoint I felt a need to escape. I took a ferry from the port in Juneau to Douglas Island to visit their public library.
posted by RichardP at 2:41 PM on April 7 [3 favorites]
You're a person after my own heart. I've been on one cruise in my life — an Alaska cruise with family, including elderly parents. It was nice in the way that it served as a moving hotel from which family excursions could be planned at each port. However, by the midpoint I felt a need to escape. I took a ferry from the port in Juneau to Douglas Island to visit their public library.
posted by RichardP at 2:41 PM on April 7 [3 favorites]
My friend is a musician who performed on a cruise ship. He says he will never do it again, because it's like living in a hotel that you can never leave.
but could he check out any time he liked?
posted by logicpunk at 2:43 PM on April 7 [2 favorites]
but could he check out any time he liked?
posted by logicpunk at 2:43 PM on April 7 [2 favorites]
What I really want is an introvert’s boat trip. Lots of books, coffee and occasional quiet activities.
This is a library.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:32 PM on April 7 [6 favorites]
This is a library.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:32 PM on April 7 [6 favorites]
Better scenery though, but probably less norovirus and COVID
posted by Windopaene at 3:33 PM on April 7
posted by Windopaene at 3:33 PM on April 7
If I had nineteen grand to blow on a single holiday, I would simply trek across Iceland on horseback before visiting every neolithic painted cave in southern France and northern Spain.
posted by rdc at 3:46 PM on April 7 [11 favorites]
posted by rdc at 3:46 PM on April 7 [11 favorites]
OK the whole $19K/$17K thing got me so - the sailing he went on was sold out so probably secondary market:
That said, I don't think I'd sail on any of X of the Seas but I had a lovely experience on recent Viking cruise (n.b. no children policy).
posted by achrise at 5:02 PM on April 7 [1 favorite]
No wonder this ship was sold out months before departure, and we had to pay $19,000 for a horrid suite away from the Suite NeighborhoodI guess the $17K came from the price of a Rolex on board
a used Rolex that can be bought for $8,000 on land here proudly offered at $17,000.Current prices for future similar cruises on the same ship appear to start for less than $2K. You can get a suite for less than $3.5K
That said, I don't think I'd sail on any of X of the Seas but I had a lovely experience on recent Viking cruise (n.b. no children policy).
posted by achrise at 5:02 PM on April 7 [1 favorite]
I enjoyed the article, it's funny and makes some good points even if as the author admits some of it goes after low hanging fruit. A lot of it is schtick and tongue in cheek - I don't think we're supposed to believe every moment was actually as bad as presented - and the author to me reads as much more self aware then perhaps being given credit for. Besides which, being on ship full of rand/maga types what else could you say?
posted by blue shadows at 5:57 PM on April 7
posted by blue shadows at 5:57 PM on April 7
I went on my first cruise last year, not having done so previously because of all the things expressed in the article and in this thread. But, despite myself, I liked it and had a great time. This was not in anything as big as the obscene Icon of the Seas, but a much smaller and older P&O ship. Still pretty big as ships go, but small enough to be a lot more accessible. Seven-day cruise, which is actually five days because they count the day you board in the afternoon and the day you disembark in the morning.
Maybe being a P&O cruise, so at the lower end price-wise, meant the passengers were less elitist or more friendly or something. There was an entire sampling of society roaming around, from young families to newlyweds to middle-aged couples (that's us) to retirees (often regular cruisers who you very quickly learn to recognise on sight and never ever sit near them for fear of being sucked into their monologue about how many cruises they've been on). There were lots of groups for whom this was clearly the absolutely most exciting thing that had ever happened to them and something they'd talk about breathlessly for the rest of their lives.
We (my wife and I) take regular holidays and most of them are camping on or near beaches and/or road trips but we are not the types to sit around on a deck chair and need something to do pretty much all the time to be happy. I predicted I would be bored stiff after the first day, but I was wrong. Lots of shows and lots of trivia contests and bingo and all sorts of things that I'd likely never do in any other context. We had a great time, with the only exception being the two shore trips that were, at best, underwhelming. I understand this is the hallmark of the cheaper cruises - you only get to stop where port fees are low and kickbacks are high. But for a couple of grand each, we got a room with a verandah (couldn't stand the thought of being trapped in a windowless box) so could sit out and watch the ocean go by with all meals, accommodation, entertainment, activities etc included. This is incredible value and delivered the one thing I was hoping for in spades - absolute leisure for (almost) a week where the biggest chore was deciding which restaurant to eat in. Also drinking. Lots of drinking. Because of our usual desire to do things, we pretty much had done every possible activity before the end and spent the last day at sea lying around on deckchairs and chatting with people. And, of course, drinking as well as partaking of the free quality seafood available at one of the bars only on the last sea day that is apparently some kind of Easter Egg you have to know about or just stumble across, as I did.
I was surprised that drinks were priced pretty much on par with pubs and the like and racked up quite an impressive tab over the cruise. Of course, a lot of the profit for a cruise ship is in all the things you can mindlessly spend money on, like booze, gambling, photos etc and, because you pay for everything using the card on your lanyard and settle up the bill at the end, you end up spending more than you expect.
Would I do another one? Absolutely. Would I go on a cruise by myself, as an introvert who isn't generally a fan of people? Definitely not. Unless you are one of those weird people who love nothing more than to get to know new humans and share stories, you should absolutely not go on a cruise by yourself. Unless, of course, you love to read and have a verandah where you can sit by yourself for as many hours as you want and ignore the world along with all the people in it. You can choose how much you interact with others and that sounds like the perfect arrangement to me.
posted by dg at 7:40 PM on April 7
Maybe being a P&O cruise, so at the lower end price-wise, meant the passengers were less elitist or more friendly or something. There was an entire sampling of society roaming around, from young families to newlyweds to middle-aged couples (that's us) to retirees (often regular cruisers who you very quickly learn to recognise on sight and never ever sit near them for fear of being sucked into their monologue about how many cruises they've been on). There were lots of groups for whom this was clearly the absolutely most exciting thing that had ever happened to them and something they'd talk about breathlessly for the rest of their lives.
We (my wife and I) take regular holidays and most of them are camping on or near beaches and/or road trips but we are not the types to sit around on a deck chair and need something to do pretty much all the time to be happy. I predicted I would be bored stiff after the first day, but I was wrong. Lots of shows and lots of trivia contests and bingo and all sorts of things that I'd likely never do in any other context. We had a great time, with the only exception being the two shore trips that were, at best, underwhelming. I understand this is the hallmark of the cheaper cruises - you only get to stop where port fees are low and kickbacks are high. But for a couple of grand each, we got a room with a verandah (couldn't stand the thought of being trapped in a windowless box) so could sit out and watch the ocean go by with all meals, accommodation, entertainment, activities etc included. This is incredible value and delivered the one thing I was hoping for in spades - absolute leisure for (almost) a week where the biggest chore was deciding which restaurant to eat in. Also drinking. Lots of drinking. Because of our usual desire to do things, we pretty much had done every possible activity before the end and spent the last day at sea lying around on deckchairs and chatting with people. And, of course, drinking as well as partaking of the free quality seafood available at one of the bars only on the last sea day that is apparently some kind of Easter Egg you have to know about or just stumble across, as I did.
I was surprised that drinks were priced pretty much on par with pubs and the like and racked up quite an impressive tab over the cruise. Of course, a lot of the profit for a cruise ship is in all the things you can mindlessly spend money on, like booze, gambling, photos etc and, because you pay for everything using the card on your lanyard and settle up the bill at the end, you end up spending more than you expect.
Would I do another one? Absolutely. Would I go on a cruise by myself, as an introvert who isn't generally a fan of people? Definitely not. Unless you are one of those weird people who love nothing more than to get to know new humans and share stories, you should absolutely not go on a cruise by yourself. Unless, of course, you love to read and have a verandah where you can sit by yourself for as many hours as you want and ignore the world along with all the people in it. You can choose how much you interact with others and that sounds like the perfect arrangement to me.
posted by dg at 7:40 PM on April 7
and the author to me reads as much more self aware then perhaps being given credit for
Well, he says he's of the essence of pendejo, so yeah. (Labored joke, btw.) But just because you're being a shit about yourself doesn't necessarily mean it's fun to read your being a shit about other people, especially in a very well-worn vein.
posted by praemunire at 7:49 PM on April 7 [3 favorites]
Well, he says he's of the essence of pendejo, so yeah. (Labored joke, btw.) But just because you're being a shit about yourself doesn't necessarily mean it's fun to read your being a shit about other people, especially in a very well-worn vein.
posted by praemunire at 7:49 PM on April 7 [3 favorites]
Current prices for future similar cruises on the same ship appear to start for less than $2K. You can get a suite for less than $3.5K
That seems more reasonable (and, frankly, more in this demo's spending range). Still not how I'd choose to deploy even that much money.
posted by praemunire at 7:52 PM on April 7
That seems more reasonable (and, frankly, more in this demo's spending range). Still not how I'd choose to deploy even that much money.
posted by praemunire at 7:52 PM on April 7
The problem with cruise ships as a type of vacation is you can't get lost without increasing your chances of dying
posted by morspin at 8:15 PM on April 7 [2 favorites]
posted by morspin at 8:15 PM on April 7 [2 favorites]
There's a whole list of reasons why I don't like cruises that everyone else has listed already ranging from cruises being crowded norovirus incubators to massively outsized environmental and energy impacts to abusive labor practices, or simply not being that into that many people in a floating mall and buffet - and I agree with all of these.
Especially having lived in multiple places that have been cruise ship destinations.
But the real reason I don't want anything to with being on or near a cruise ship is because there's absolutely no fucking way I want to be on any kind of boat with that many people in general.
But especially with - forgive me for painting with a wide brush - the general demographic of the kinds of people that love cruises and being catered to and taking easy vacations on rails - who have no idea what to do in the event of a major disaster or event at sea.
I've seen and heard of way, way too many accounts and videos of what happens to cruise ships and exactly how fast the non-metaphorical shit can hit the non-proverbial fan during severe weather and high sea events, what happens during evacuations, or even the general concept of muster station drills for me to want to be on an absolutely massive boat with too many thousands of people. People that can barely make it to and from a breakfast buffet and how badly these kinds of people start behaving as soon as they're slightly inconvenienced or outraged about as little as bad customer service or missing a single meal.
There's no way in hell I want to take any chance at all of experiencing boarding - much less actually sharing and surviving on - a life boat or raft with the average cruise ship guest. People would be fighting over the whole concept of rationing food and water within minutes.
And I actually like boats and being on the water, but miss me with all of that nonsense. I live somewhere with a lot of maritime culture and history and I practically grew up on the ocean. I respect and I have a completely healthy fear of the sea and boats because the sea deserves respect and at least some fear.
I wouldn't want to get on a 25 foot day cruiser on calm inland seas with the average or typical cruise ship patron, much less four to five thousand of them crammed into a floating strip mall.
posted by loquacious at 8:17 PM on April 7 [7 favorites]
Especially having lived in multiple places that have been cruise ship destinations.
But the real reason I don't want anything to with being on or near a cruise ship is because there's absolutely no fucking way I want to be on any kind of boat with that many people in general.
But especially with - forgive me for painting with a wide brush - the general demographic of the kinds of people that love cruises and being catered to and taking easy vacations on rails - who have no idea what to do in the event of a major disaster or event at sea.
I've seen and heard of way, way too many accounts and videos of what happens to cruise ships and exactly how fast the non-metaphorical shit can hit the non-proverbial fan during severe weather and high sea events, what happens during evacuations, or even the general concept of muster station drills for me to want to be on an absolutely massive boat with too many thousands of people. People that can barely make it to and from a breakfast buffet and how badly these kinds of people start behaving as soon as they're slightly inconvenienced or outraged about as little as bad customer service or missing a single meal.
There's no way in hell I want to take any chance at all of experiencing boarding - much less actually sharing and surviving on - a life boat or raft with the average cruise ship guest. People would be fighting over the whole concept of rationing food and water within minutes.
And I actually like boats and being on the water, but miss me with all of that nonsense. I live somewhere with a lot of maritime culture and history and I practically grew up on the ocean. I respect and I have a completely healthy fear of the sea and boats because the sea deserves respect and at least some fear.
I wouldn't want to get on a 25 foot day cruiser on calm inland seas with the average or typical cruise ship patron, much less four to five thousand of them crammed into a floating strip mall.
posted by loquacious at 8:17 PM on April 7 [7 favorites]
... the general concept of muster station drills ...
One thing that surprised me, as a first timer, was the complete lack of any actual drills or useful guidance to passengers about what to do in the event of an 'incident'. We got a 5-minute briefing at what was supposed to be our muster station (one of the bars) and were required to watch a 'safety' video on the TV in our room that was about 15 minutes. They tracked if you had started the video and let it run to the end, but obviously not if you were in the room at the time. Really all we were told was that, if the alarm sounds, go to your muster station (if you can find it) and we'll tell you what to do next.
So, yeah, I hate to think of the shitshow if something did actually go wrong, particularly given the number of people daily slogging their way through their pre-paid drinks package (AKA the 'drinks challenge' because you have to have something like 15 drinks per day to get your money's worth). I figured we'd go straight to one of the inflatable liferafts, hurl it over the side and jump after it ;-)
posted by dg at 11:18 PM on April 7 [3 favorites]
One thing that surprised me, as a first timer, was the complete lack of any actual drills or useful guidance to passengers about what to do in the event of an 'incident'. We got a 5-minute briefing at what was supposed to be our muster station (one of the bars) and were required to watch a 'safety' video on the TV in our room that was about 15 minutes. They tracked if you had started the video and let it run to the end, but obviously not if you were in the room at the time. Really all we were told was that, if the alarm sounds, go to your muster station (if you can find it) and we'll tell you what to do next.
So, yeah, I hate to think of the shitshow if something did actually go wrong, particularly given the number of people daily slogging their way through their pre-paid drinks package (AKA the 'drinks challenge' because you have to have something like 15 drinks per day to get your money's worth). I figured we'd go straight to one of the inflatable liferafts, hurl it over the side and jump after it ;-)
posted by dg at 11:18 PM on April 7 [3 favorites]
I'm surprised some of the audience here missed the self deprecation mixed into the mockery of MAGA types. I like his writing.
posted by zymil at 4:14 AM on April 8 [6 favorites]
What I really want is an introvert’s boat trip. Lots of books, coffee and occasional quiet activities.I haven't been on one but I think this is basically a European river cruise. Much smaller boats where the most exciting place probably is the library and when the boat stops you do a lot of wandering around visiting cathedrals, museums, and cafes.
posted by zymil at 4:14 AM on April 8 [6 favorites]
Yeah, I've heard really good things about river cruises.
posted by mikelieman at 4:33 AM on April 8 [1 favorite]
posted by mikelieman at 4:33 AM on April 8 [1 favorite]
I haven't been on one but I think this is basically a European river cruise.
I haven't done one myself, but I know several people who have done Viking cruises and this is absolutely spot on. Probably helps that the demographic tends to be a tad older and the cruises are (I think) usually childfree.
I have approximately zero interest in ever doing a Caribbean cruise for all the reasons listed, but I certainly get the appeal. For me, getting lost in a strange city is part of the appeal of traveling, but it's not everyone's cup of tea.
My own cruise experience was limited to an overnight Silja Line ferry from Stockholm to Helsinki last summer. It was kinda fun in that it was way less stressful and more scenic than flying, but two nights on the boat was plenty. Can't imagine spending weeks on a boat like that.
posted by photo guy at 4:42 AM on April 8 [1 favorite]
I haven't done one myself, but I know several people who have done Viking cruises and this is absolutely spot on. Probably helps that the demographic tends to be a tad older and the cruises are (I think) usually childfree.
I have approximately zero interest in ever doing a Caribbean cruise for all the reasons listed, but I certainly get the appeal. For me, getting lost in a strange city is part of the appeal of traveling, but it's not everyone's cup of tea.
My own cruise experience was limited to an overnight Silja Line ferry from Stockholm to Helsinki last summer. It was kinda fun in that it was way less stressful and more scenic than flying, but two nights on the boat was plenty. Can't imagine spending weeks on a boat like that.
posted by photo guy at 4:42 AM on April 8 [1 favorite]
Previously: "Cruises Are So Uncool They Are Cool" (Michael Ian Black)
posted by AndrewInDC at 6:44 AM on April 8
posted by AndrewInDC at 6:44 AM on April 8
What I really want is an introvert’s boat trip. Lots of books, coffee and occasional quiet activities.
All cruise lines are not the same, and if you look for the ones that target older demographics (Viking, Cunard, Holland) you will find what you’re looking for.
The QM2 has a gorgeous two-story library that Cunard boasts as the best at-sea.
posted by Huggiesbear at 7:38 AM on April 8 [1 favorite]
All cruise lines are not the same, and if you look for the ones that target older demographics (Viking, Cunard, Holland) you will find what you’re looking for.
The QM2 has a gorgeous two-story library that Cunard boasts as the best at-sea.
posted by Huggiesbear at 7:38 AM on April 8 [1 favorite]
“Author embarks on their first cruise-ship voyage” has been a staple of American essay writing for almost three decades, beginning with David Foster Wallace’s “A Supposedly Fun Thing I’ll Never Do Again,” which was first published in 1996 under the title “Shipping Out.”
How could Mr. Shteyngart ignore the earliest & probably best "author embarks on their first cruise-ship voyage", that being The Innocents Abroad, or The New Pilgrim's Progress: Being Some Account of the Steamship Quaker City's Pleasure Excursion to Europe and the Holy Land by one Mark Twain? Not only was it Twain's first cruise ship voyage, it was arguably the world's first cruise ship voyage. As Twain himself put it in the introduction:
It was a novelty in the way of excursions—its like had not been thought of before ... a great steamship with flags flying and cannon pealing, ... a royal holiday beyond the broad ocean in many a strange clime and in many a land renowned in history!
Honestly, I'm no longer surprised when a contemporary author evinces such ignorance of history, literary or otherwise, but I am indeed surprised that this thread has gone for over 50 comments without a mention of "the best selling of Twain's works during his lifetime, as well as one of the best-selling travel books of all time."
posted by mr vino at 8:11 AM on April 8 [6 favorites]
How could Mr. Shteyngart ignore the earliest & probably best "author embarks on their first cruise-ship voyage", that being The Innocents Abroad, or The New Pilgrim's Progress: Being Some Account of the Steamship Quaker City's Pleasure Excursion to Europe and the Holy Land by one Mark Twain? Not only was it Twain's first cruise ship voyage, it was arguably the world's first cruise ship voyage. As Twain himself put it in the introduction:
It was a novelty in the way of excursions—its like had not been thought of before ... a great steamship with flags flying and cannon pealing, ... a royal holiday beyond the broad ocean in many a strange clime and in many a land renowned in history!
Honestly, I'm no longer surprised when a contemporary author evinces such ignorance of history, literary or otherwise, but I am indeed surprised that this thread has gone for over 50 comments without a mention of "the best selling of Twain's works during his lifetime, as well as one of the best-selling travel books of all time."
posted by mr vino at 8:11 AM on April 8 [6 favorites]
We knew you'd be along to tell us all about it. Saves us the typing.
posted by pracowity at 8:38 AM on April 8 [2 favorites]
posted by pracowity at 8:38 AM on April 8 [2 favorites]
DFW's and Jonathan Franzen's cruise diaries were quite good, so I look forward to reading Shteyngart's and Twain's. Soon, someone (Freeman's?) will be able to compile an anthology of cruise literature.
posted by nikoniko at 11:28 AM on April 8
posted by nikoniko at 11:28 AM on April 8
Although of course it's really about the phenomenon of Bitcoin and being trapped with people you don't like. And also giving new phrases to the world, such as:
John McAfee has never been convicted of rape and murder, but—crucially—not in the same way that you or I have never been convicted of rape or murder.Honestly, I don't have much to say about the Shteyngart piece. I can't fault him for being put off by the prevalence MAGA people, and it sounded like he put himself into doing things a bit, but yeah, it's hard to know what I could've expected from it.
posted by ambrosen at 7:21 PM on April 8 [5 favorites]
I am, with some misgivings, tentatively going on the JoCo Cruise next year, which is sort of an introvert cruise, in that it's for huge nerds and I'm going to see TMBG play. The fact that it's less likely to have drunken MAGA types on it is a big sell. If there are major labor problems -- I am concerned about an accident on the ship -- I may back out. Still, I am aware I will forfeit my place in next year's Good Person Olympics for this.
And yet I really feel the romance of the cruise as such. I'd theoretically love to take a transatlantic cruise or just take a damn boat where I'm going. I have a fondness for videos of Japanese ferries that take a night or longer to get where they're going and have cruise-type amenities, although they are much lower key. (See this guy's channel.) The lament should be that we cannot have Nice Things, as other countries apparently can, and it's too damn convenient to blame that entirely on the type of person we love to hate.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:29 AM on April 9 [1 favorite]
And yet I really feel the romance of the cruise as such. I'd theoretically love to take a transatlantic cruise or just take a damn boat where I'm going. I have a fondness for videos of Japanese ferries that take a night or longer to get where they're going and have cruise-type amenities, although they are much lower key. (See this guy's channel.) The lament should be that we cannot have Nice Things, as other countries apparently can, and it's too damn convenient to blame that entirely on the type of person we love to hate.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:29 AM on April 9 [1 favorite]
"...have a fondness for videos of Japanese ferries that"
I'm fond of the various vids on youtube of the Norwegian Hurtigruten Ferries that go up and down the coast of Norway.
https://www.hurtigruten.com/en-us/about-us/voyages/the-original-coastal-express
[snip]
The Voyage
Our signature voyage along the Norwegian coast travels from the southern city of Bergen, across the Arctic Circle, up to Kirkenes, and back. These 12 days and 2,500 nautical miles feature some of the most stunning scenery on the planet.
posted by aleph at 1:07 PM on April 9 [1 favorite]
I'm fond of the various vids on youtube of the Norwegian Hurtigruten Ferries that go up and down the coast of Norway.
https://www.hurtigruten.com/en-us/about-us/voyages/the-original-coastal-express
[snip]
The Voyage
Our signature voyage along the Norwegian coast travels from the southern city of Bergen, across the Arctic Circle, up to Kirkenes, and back. These 12 days and 2,500 nautical miles feature some of the most stunning scenery on the planet.
posted by aleph at 1:07 PM on April 9 [1 favorite]
« Older How are crayons made? | The Art of the Benshi: "Full-fledged artists in... Newer »
posted by Repack Rider at 10:46 PM on April 6 [7 favorites]