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Best Christmas Destinations
December 8, 2003 2:00 AM   Subscribe

Where Would You Send Someone You Love For Christmas? If you had unlimited funds, what would be your Hannukah or Christmas present for someone you thought really deserved one? For instance, our genial host and the owner of MetaFilter, Matt Haughey. A lot of us are presently engaged in clubbing in to offer him a short visit to Iceland. y6y6y6 has even set up a website to solicit funds and suggestions, following enormous interest on MetaTalk. Well-known weblogs like boing boing and anildash are chipping in too. isn't it time we showed our appreciation? (Matt, please don't read or delete this!)
posted by MiguelCardoso (101 comments total)

 
Well, there goes the element of surprise.....
posted by davehat at 2:25 AM on December 8, 2003


Perhaps it's a ruse. Maybe we're sending him to Kyrgyzstan.
posted by armoured-ant at 2:33 AM on December 8, 2003


Now that our cover's been blown, it's back to the original plan of sending Matt some ale & whores.
posted by DaShiv at 2:47 AM on December 8, 2003


I don't see any way on that site to donate, though obviously everyone else is smarter than me as Jon's got funds... what am I missing?

Also, why have the details of the gift been made as an FPP? Matt doesn't need to read the thread. It's all revealed to him before he gets the warning.

On preview...
posted by dobbs at 2:48 AM on December 8, 2003


Perhaps it's a ruse. Maybe we're sending him to Kyrgyzstan.

There are rooms available at the Hyatt Regency in Bishkek.
posted by eddydamascene at 3:01 AM on December 8, 2003


How about faraway and exotic Beaverton, Oregon? He can tour the Nike corporation, have lunch at one of the numerous fast food franchises, do some serious strip mall Christmas shopping, and still be back home in time for dinner.
posted by Devils Slide at 3:04 AM on December 8, 2003


Actually, fuck Kyrgyzstan - Back to my first suggestion (NSFW).
posted by armoured-ant at 4:00 AM on December 8, 2003


(Matt, please don't read or delete this!)

MiguelCardoso: My balls are huge.
posted by Space Coyote at 4:03 AM on December 8, 2003


The warning in small size and at the END of the post? Way to go, Miguel! :-/
posted by zerofoks at 4:07 AM on December 8, 2003


"MiguelCardoso: My balls are huge."

yeah, "huge and located in my cranium, too"
I was under the impression that the Iceland thing was a surprise for Matt -- if it was, how does it feel ruining a surprise gift bought, by the way, with other people's money, Cardoso?

couldn't you post your usual "what's your favorite X" daily fpp without mentioning Matt's gift? and you post it in the blue, of all places?

bah
posted by matteo at 4:07 AM on December 8, 2003


I'd send them unlimited funds.
posted by Pretty_Generic at 4:10 AM on December 8, 2003


Devil's Slide: I live in Aloha. Why don't we meet up and have some coffee at the Tanasbourne starbucks? It would be interesting to run into another metafilteran.
posted by Keyser Soze at 4:17 AM on December 8, 2003


In other news I just went on this date and it was so cool! I can't wait to have another one. Personally, it's nice to date a girl that actually has something to say.
posted by Keyser Soze at 4:19 AM on December 8, 2003


Why on earth send Matt to Iceland???? I thought you liked him! (I mean, it's COLD there...)

But what do I know. My husband wants to go to Siberia.
posted by konolia at 4:30 AM on December 8, 2003


MiguelCardoso wrote:
I think a MeTa thread is the most effective but I've already abused my hospitality there with the recent repost so I'll leave it to someone else.

Uh-huh...
posted by fooljay at 4:30 AM on December 8, 2003


For those wanting to contribute to the gift, here's the info:

Through PayPal: jon@jonsullivan.com

By post:
Jon Sullivan
10320 Maya Linda Rd #A212
San Diego, CA 92126

Cash, checks, non-US funds, etc are all fine. If you have special circumstances and there is anything I can do to facilitate a contribution, please just let me know.
posted by y6y6y6 at 4:33 AM on December 8, 2003


Ooooooooh yeahhh !!!


Mmmmmmmmmmmm


Work that front-page... ooooooooooohhh !!!!

Uhh- huhh ! OOOOOOoooohhh.....
posted by Frasermoo at 5:49 AM on December 8, 2003


I thought I was the only person who actually wanted to go to Iceland.
posted by oissubke at 5:58 AM on December 8, 2003


WHAT.
THE.
FUCK.
MIGUEL?
posted by bshort at 6:04 AM on December 8, 2003


My mum never went to Iceland.

She went to Beejam's.
posted by davehat at 6:07 AM on December 8, 2003


Miguel you are a lousy party pooper for revealing the gift. On the other hand, we may actually get enough donations now to buy him the aforementioned...
posted by cbrody at 6:16 AM on December 8, 2003


In an effort to turn this back into a real thread, rather than just a YALABMT (yet another let's all bash Miguel thread)...........

As someone heavily involved in this whole process I'm finding it to be rather incredible. Several years after the dot-com crash, when we've heard from various quarters that blogging is dead, people continue to reap rewards for putting up and maintaining free content. Blogging pays. At least for a few.

In Matt's case it pays because people are so grateful they are eager (yes eager) to show their appreciation. Even people who don't have a membership have contributed to his Christmas gift.

It's like "It's A Wonderful Life (blog version)" The heart warming tale of an A-list blogger who toils without pay for years on a hand-coded community weblog. A labor of love that is at times thankless and aggravating. Finally his cranky and obnoxious users come together in the Christmas spirit to buy him wondrous gifts.

Josh Marshall recently raised $5000 to help him blog the presidential debates. I'm making a very good return on giving my photos away (self-link obviously).

Is this something new in weblogs? Or is it just a lucky few? Are there any other bloggers you're buying gifts for? Discuss.
posted by y6y6y6 at 6:39 AM on December 8, 2003


Miguel: from now on, please stop posting after the 3rd dry martini.
posted by signal at 6:47 AM on December 8, 2003


while we're at it , lets send migs to siberia.

(oops)
posted by sgt.serenity at 6:48 AM on December 8, 2003


anyway , if a scotsman can chip in , anyone can.
posted by sgt.serenity at 6:50 AM on December 8, 2003


the ruse is working--Matt will really think we're sending him to Iceland (when we all know it's somewhere entirely different, right?).
posted by amberglow at 6:52 AM on December 8, 2003


Exactly Amber...as though we're sending anyone to Iceland. Sheesh. Come on gang, we all know we're sending him to New Zealand to tour the LotR sites. ;)
posted by dejah420 at 7:15 AM on December 8, 2003


Is this something new in weblogs? Or is it just a lucky few? Are there any other bloggers you're buying gifts for? Discuss.

Something new? Been happening for years now. They call them camgirls I believe. So after we have enough funds for matt, perhaps we should turn our attention to some poor girl who has spent her last 3 years posing for strangers everywhere!
posted by justgary at 7:16 AM on December 8, 2003


well I laughed, davehat...
posted by twine42 at 7:22 AM on December 8, 2003


"They call them camgirls I believe."

Sssssshhhhh....... We don't want Matt to guess that we're sending him 600 pairs of "slightly used" panties.

"Merry Christmas Matt!!!! Here's a crate of soiled thongs."
posted by y6y6y6 at 7:23 AM on December 8, 2003


y6y6y6, not so much of a return, really -- just random cash infusions for specific purposes. Is anybody actually earning a living? ($30,000+/ann)
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 7:26 AM on December 8, 2003


I suppose he could have kept it a secret and the gift would be from a select few, or he could have revealed it like he did and given everyone who uses Metafilter a chance to donate. Not all of us read metatalk. In fact, I'd gather I'm not the only one who thinks the whole concept of it is rather silly.

Thanks for letting us all in on it, Miguel.

A bunch of us who frequented the message board raised over $1000.00 one year to pay for a year's hosting of Zug.com. People who provide a free service should be rewarded now and then.
posted by bondcliff at 7:44 AM on December 8, 2003


"Is anybody actually earning a living? ($30,000+/ann)"

I seriously doubt it.

But then that's not the point. I have a job. And my websites are a labor of love. I've been doing them for absolutely nothing for many years. It's really nice to pull in a little cash, even if it's only enough to cover the hosting costs.

If my job was maintaining my weblog, I think I would find a new job. I like it better when I know it's just for fun, and enough other people get some use out of it to return a little cash as well.

I have about 3000 photos on my site. About 2973 of them aren't very good at all. Still, people seem to find interesting uses for all of them, and since it's both free for users and paid for on my end, I don't need to worry.

I'm not sure what I'm getting at here............ Maybe just this: Getting a return on a labor of love is cool.
posted by y6y6y6 at 7:45 AM on December 8, 2003


What I've been noticing a lot lately in blogs and other web communities is what I've been thinking of as 'flash giving'. With PayPal and an existing audience, a new cause can be funded with amazing speed. Whether it's Helping Brianna, sending games to sick kids, or salving the wounds of Star Wars Kid, web communities are proving themselves to be real communities by doing one of the things communities are supposed to do - helping the other members.

It can be, as in this case, a simple act of gratitude. But it can also fill in the cracks where there are no existing charitable organizations that can deal with the specific problem at hand. While there are drawbacks to these flash charities (chance of fraud, lack of tax receipts), I find the personalization of them - that you know exactly who you're donating to and why - to be very gratifying.


Also, to bondcliff, y6 wrote a perfectly acceptable sample post that would have revealed the existence of the gift project to the general MeFi readership, while not actually revealing the gift to be given to Matt. It's not the post that people are objecting to, since that had already been agreed upon, but the specific, secret-spoiling content of it.
posted by jacquilynne at 7:49 AM on December 8, 2003


Um, I don't want to be a wet blanket, but does anyone really think that mathowie hadn't copped to this prior to Miguel's post? I mean, it's hardly been the best kept secret on the Internet. Even if someone tattoos the word "Iceland" on his forehead, I feel confident that Matt will act genuinely surprised and pleased when the gift is officially presented.
posted by vraxoin at 7:49 AM on December 8, 2003


It wasn't a surprise - Matt himself let it be known a trip to Iceland was what he most wanted. And there's no party pooping involved - we simply need some more donations (not many now!) to make it all come true.

As for posting it on MeFi it wasn't my idea, although I agreed with it. It would always be a lousy post but it's in a good cause and it's more honest this way. The sole purpose is to let MeFi members know that this effort is being made, since only a fraction read MetaTalk.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 7:49 AM on December 8, 2003


I think Andrew Sullivan brought in enough for himself and a second employee for his blog last year.
posted by Mick at 7:52 AM on December 8, 2003


Man.. not to be a total poopypants, because I totally respect anyone who puts up a site that isn't 100% commercial, but Matt here probably makes his hosting costs, etc back by selling TextAds (I've bought some before!)...

I, on the other hand, run a site that seeks to promote music, which (sorry for the horn-tooting here) probably has more tangible benefit to people, and I can't imagine the readership ever doing anything like that for me...

Maybe I should start a cyberbegging site.. *sighs*...
posted by twiggy at 7:55 AM on December 8, 2003


Oh yeah, I should have added:

I pay for everything myself, I lose money on it willingly, and I'm already poor-ass and struggling to pay my bills to begin with... 'course, the readership of my site doesn't necessarily know that, because I don't bitch about it or look for sympathy... (although I'm doing that here... at least I don't do it on my site ;-) hah...
posted by twiggy at 7:56 AM on December 8, 2003


put a little blurb on your site asking for help maintaining it or paying for server costs, twiggy--you'd probably be surprised. (and tis the season, no?)
posted by amberglow at 7:59 AM on December 8, 2003


jacquilynne, thanks for clearing that up. I see your point.
posted by bondcliff at 8:07 AM on December 8, 2003


twiggy - I notice you have the Google ads running. Those don't pay for the hosting? or are you not talking about the openingbands.com site. Just wondering.

"and I can't imagine the readership ever doing anything like that for me..."

I think what jacquilynne said very much applies to this sort of thing. You really need a huge voice/community if you want a fund drive. Even with thousands of active users (members or not) here, only a small percent are going to donate. Which is fine, but it makes it less of an option for sites getting less than a million hits a month.

And I suspect it works better as a one time thing. We have a chance here to leave Matt (and his wife) flabbergasted, but that only works once. We'd have to buy him a house next year to get the same effect.
posted by y6y6y6 at 8:14 AM on December 8, 2003


geez, Migs. what were you thinking??? this post could easily have been composed without outright revealing the gift. someone as aware of subtle interpersonal nuances as you generally appear to be shouldn't have made such an elemental mistake. haven't you ever known ahead of time about a present you were likely to receive, but preserved the pleasant fiction of surprise for the sake of all involved?

we weren't 100% certain that matt knew--until you unilaterally took a highly unnecessary step. man, I'm disappointed. sheesh.
posted by clever sheep at 8:42 AM on December 8, 2003


I didn't mean to bash Miguel, but it did seem like a bit of a "Well, Duh!" type post. With a bit of post-post investigating, I see that the action of posting to blue was agreed by consensus in one of the many new meta-meta-meta threads out there concerning this topic.

y6y6y6: I'm trying to donate to the fund, but I have to wait for my paypal account to become operational. What's the cut off date for donations? I hope I'll be able to donate by the end of the week, is that too late?

I'm planning a trip to Iceland in the not too distant future. As a little tip to anyone in the UK considering going there, the cheapest way is to get an Icelandair flight to New York and take advantage of the free online stop on either the outward or inward flight. You are normally limited to three days there, but it is MUCH cheaper than a return flight to Reykjavic (about a third cheaper in low season). I have no idea whether the same is true of trips originating stateside.
posted by davehat at 9:03 AM on December 8, 2003


i hear the mother of all meetups a rumblin.......
posted by sgt.serenity at 9:10 AM on December 8, 2003


Don't worry, guys. I have it on very good authority that Matt never reads any of Miguel's posts.

In fact, I don't even know what I'm doing here.
posted by crunchland at 9:16 AM on December 8, 2003


"What's the cut off date for donations?"

There really isn't one. If you can't get money to me before we finalize the purchase (probably early next week), just let me know via email and I'll cover you. Sooner the better, but it's not a big deal.
posted by y6y6y6 at 9:20 AM on December 8, 2003


gah, Reykjavik... [all that trouble getting the j and y the right way round an I put a frickin c in there....]

crunchland: er, are you saying you're Matt?

y6y6y6: Great. Please front me $1 bazillion. Cheque's in the post ;)
posted by davehat at 9:23 AM on December 8, 2003


Old and Busted: Chatty, superfluous FPPs about food and drink

The New Hotness: Blabbing "secrets" in a thread and asking the site admin not to read it
posted by dhoyt at 9:31 AM on December 8, 2003


Let's all send Miguel to the Paris Hilton.
posted by PrinceValium at 9:44 AM on December 8, 2003


Nah. He wouldn't know what to do. I think the Hanoi Hilton is more appropriate.
posted by crunchland at 10:08 AM on December 8, 2003


All this thread needs to complete it is a post from Matt saying "It's cool, I didn't read what you're getting me."
posted by drezdn at 10:55 AM on December 8, 2003


It's cool, I didn't read what you're getting me.
posted by mathowie at 11:30 AM PST on December 8


Well, damn. It almost worked.
posted by shoepal at 11:36 AM on December 8, 2003


(I am of course, referring to my attempt to deliver on drezdn's request via some less than perfect HTML shenanigans, not the success of the christmas gift fund drive).
posted by shoepal at 11:45 AM on December 8, 2003


You're sending Matt away?

Please tell me you're also planning on bringing him back!
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:30 PM on December 8, 2003


You're sending Matt away?
Please tell me you're also planning on bringing him back!

Nope. A oneway ticket to Moldavia, and $5 spending money only--he'll have to get back on his own (and we take over in the meanwhile).
posted by amberglow at 12:39 PM on December 8, 2003


Not all of us read metatalk.

Well, you should be. Except the threads started by Miguel. Joking, joking...

Also : I can't believe this thread is still here.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 12:55 PM on December 8, 2003


"A oneway ticket to Moldavia, and $5 spending money only--he'll have to get back on his own "

Ah.
SurvivorFilter.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:59 PM on December 8, 2003


"A oneway ticket to Moldavia"

Or Transdniester?
posted by CunningLinguist at 1:22 PM on December 8, 2003


It wasn't a surprise - Matt himself let it be known a trip to Iceland was what he most wanted.

Matt may have wanted it, but he had no idea he was getting it. I want things too, but am still surprised when I receive them.
posted by iconomy at 1:33 PM on December 8, 2003


fixed : >
posted by amberglow at 1:40 PM on December 8, 2003


I saw...! I kiss you ;)
posted by iconomy at 1:57 PM on December 8, 2003


*sigh*
Moron.
posted by niteHawk at 2:51 PM on December 8, 2003


sweetness, sweetness i was only joking when i said ..........
posted by sgt.serenity at 3:18 PM on December 8, 2003


What the hell, we all sometimes fuck up.

The funniest was what drezdn wrote and the following post, sure enough, it was matt. I was killing myself laughing.

In any case, it's the thought that counts and so, an early Christmas present from SantaMeFi.
posted by alicesshoe at 3:40 PM on December 8, 2003


and the following post, sure enough, it was matt.

No.
posted by dgaicun at 3:57 PM on December 8, 2003


I'm only willing to contribute to this Haughey adulation fund if he sets up a 24/7 webcam and has loud sex, just off camera.
posted by crunchland at 4:04 PM on December 8, 2003


with you, presumably.
posted by sgt.serenity at 4:12 PM on December 8, 2003


Perhaps, Miguel, but how easy would it have been to just include the pertinent information inside of the thread?
posted by The God Complex at 4:14 PM on December 8, 2003


Iceland ? Well - I've never been, but I've read glowing praise for the place. So be it. However, Brazil's nice too.....

Also, Baffin Island's quite an experience as well, or so I've heard on the good authority of firsthand testimony - a nearly overwhelming sensual experience, in fact. Just bring a high powered rifle - the polar bears can be overly curious....and no computers around for many, many miles. No people either.

But Matt wants Iceland, so Iceland it is.
posted by troutfishing at 4:20 PM on December 8, 2003


Keyser, I would have definitely met you for that cup of java if I didn't live in the Bay Area. I lived in Beaverton during the late 80's.

There are, however, quite a few Portland MeFites, and they had a picnic/beer bash just last summer, I believe. Hell, you can have that cup of coffee with our illustrious leader himself (after a careful vetting, physical, and strip search, that is), since he now lives there.
posted by Devils Slide at 4:43 PM on December 8, 2003


Note: next time anyone gives a surprise gift DO NOT tell Miguel what said gift will be. Tell him it will be a giant teddy bear or something.

Because of course what the gift was couldn't be concealed in the comments of the thread, oh no, not at all. Because of course, by telling Matt not to read it at the end of the FPP...
Oh bother, what God Complex Said.
There's always one person that's gonna blow the surprise party...
posted by batgrlHG at 5:04 PM on December 8, 2003


Iconomy, TGC and others: I am at fault and I apologize. Over-enthusiastic and, as usual, wrong. I've apologized to Matt and I'd like to apologize too to all those who went to such lengths to keep this a secret. It's horrible being a bigmouth.

How could I forget the elementary "more inside" or, at least, having the warning at the beginning of the post? The truth is that I was nervous about the highly dubious status of the post; I didn't want it to be a phoney, fluffed-up post and so I went ahead and blurted it all out like some stool pigeon on truth serum. Iceland had been mentioned in a MeTa post Matt commented in; it was on the front page of Boing Boing; I was almost sure Matt already knew about it. Big mistake. What a brute, dammit.

Still, we got the eyeballs and the dollars so it's not all bad, I guess. It's amazing that a group of people got together to make it happen - and it's happened.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 5:12 PM on December 8, 2003


Agreed (with Migs' above comment.)

Miguel has apologized many times and did not do this maliciously. Cut the man a tiny bit of slack as his goal was to promote the donation to Mathowie's "thank you gift."
posted by gen at 5:26 PM on December 8, 2003


Miguel, you don't have to apologize to me - I'm not mad at you. It seemed to me that you thought Matt knew about the gift, and he didn't. It will all turn out ok, partially thanks to your unending enthusiasm. So here's a nice linen handkerchief, now dry those tears ;)
posted by iconomy at 5:37 PM on December 8, 2003


Meu querido MEC, arruma as botas. Vai levar na peida!
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:43 PM on December 8, 2003


seu tem quis dizer para ser uma parada de surpresa tomando atenção longe de matthew e espreita como você disse que você ria
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:47 PM on December 8, 2003


Thanks, gen and Ike - that was sweet of you. That "handkerchief" brought back memories, too! :)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 5:54 PM on December 8, 2003


Sarge: that means "My dear MEC, pack it in. Go get fucked in the ass!" The second comment is gobbledygook.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 5:56 PM on December 8, 2003


oops , i'll shut up now.
sorry for moaning at you migs.
posted by sgt.serenity at 6:06 PM on December 8, 2003


*hugs migs*
posted by sgt.serenity at 6:19 PM on December 8, 2003


And a "Vai levar na peida!" to us all. /Charlie Brown Christmas Special]
posted by dgaicun at 6:59 PM on December 8, 2003


Hey, I was just pointing out a possible alternative method. It's no skin off my back.
posted by The God Complex at 7:32 PM on December 8, 2003


Actually, it's better this way. Now we can surprise Matt by not getting him anything.
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 7:57 PM on December 8, 2003


And instead buying Miguel a trip to Iceland (in a hot-air balloon filled with chilled champagne).
posted by liam at 9:04 PM on December 8, 2003


Miguel: You fucking suck. Seriously.

You've managed to move from posting trite but cute posts in MeTa to screwing up a surprise gift from the community. Congratulations.
posted by bshort at 9:57 PM on December 8, 2003


Jesus christ. Miguel, you're a fuckin moron. Seriously.

I'm beginning to think that he's got some kind of mental retardation, in all honesty. I mean that too, no sarcasm.
posted by Jairus at 12:41 AM on December 9, 2003


*hugs migs*

Jesus. Get to a teen chat room.
posted by Frasermoo at 1:50 AM on December 9, 2003


but Matt here probably makes his hosting costs, etc

there are no hosting costs. members who donated bought the latest server, and a member houses it in a closet and donates the bandwidth off his T1.
posted by quonsar at 2:25 AM on December 9, 2003


jairus, bshort, please go hyperventilate in a paper bag or something. The man is sorry already, and if the whole scenario o' love and giving has already been diminished you certainly aren't adding to it with these juvenile tantrums. If mommy lets it leak that santa doesn't exist on christmas eve, it certainly isn't going to make little billy feel any better if daddy's screaming at mommy about it all through christmas day.
posted by dgaicun at 2:30 AM on December 9, 2003


If mommy lets it leak that santa doesn't exist on christmas eve, it certainly isn't going to make little gary feel any better if daddy's screaming at mommy about it all through christmas day.

It did for me.
posted by justgary at 2:50 AM on December 9, 2003


Santa leaks?
posted by Frasermoo at 3:56 AM on December 9, 2003


ALERT: We have enough money.
posted by y6y6y6 at 6:39 AM on December 9, 2003


Good.

Re Miguel: although I have no particular wish to add to the pileon, I find the readiness to hug and excuse him because he's so sowwy pretty repellent. Migs is a big boy, he's fucked up many times and is always sorry and always goes and does it again. Posting this on the front page, with the gift idea out in the open, was so monumentally thoughtless and stupid, and so consistent with his I-post-what-I-feel-like-and-worry-about-it-later mentality, that I can't find much forgiveness in my bitter, hardened soul. I'm glad he realizes he fucked up; I'd be much gladder if I thought there was the slightest chance he'd learn from the experience.
posted by languagehat at 8:06 AM on December 9, 2003


maybe it isnt migs who's to learn.
posted by sgt.serenity at 8:59 AM on December 9, 2003


y6y6y6: nonononono. One never has enough money!
Matt: please delete y6y6y6's comment.
posted by ginz at 9:37 AM on December 9, 2003


p.s.
You guys don't really believe that if Miguel hadn't posted it here, the gift would still be a surprise for Matt, somewhere in June/July? Right? Right? I mean, it's all over the internet. And Matt likes cats, and cats always know everything.
posted by ginz at 9:46 AM on December 9, 2003


If there is some extra scrilla we could get him a pony m-i-n-i b-i-k-e.
He could put in his suitcase and ride it in Reykjavic.
posted by roboto at 1:54 PM on December 9, 2003


languagehat, good points. All I'm saying is that some off the wall bring-the-hate fest isn't going to make Miguel any better or Matt any happier. But it does have the chance of making things suck more.

but this thread has pretty much ended, so this is all superfluous anyhow.
posted by dgaicun at 3:08 PM on December 9, 2003


dgaicun: actually, if enough of us bitch long enough Miguel might actually change. Stranger things have happened.

And it's not that Miguel is a blight on the community, it's that he doesn't learn and doesn't seem to care what the consequences of his actions are.

Or, exactly what languagehat said.
posted by bshort at 6:21 PM on December 9, 2003


bshort, you need to chill out.

merry happy holidays matt!
posted by _sirmissalot_ at 7:28 PM on December 10, 2003


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