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Europe and John Kerry
March 6, 2004 8:30 PM   Subscribe

Europe Is Deeply In Love With John Kerry. How Will America React? He's liberal but not an outright socialist; he has Polish origins and an Irish surname; he's better connected to the British Royal Family than that embarrassing proto-prole Bush; he was educated in Switzerland; he speaks French beautifully and, above all, he's married to a spirited Portuguese woman who watches his every step... [More inside.]
posted by MiguelCardoso (69 comments total)

 
British conservatives, according to a recent leader in the Daily Telegraph and George Osborne in last week's Spectator and Europeans in general are besotted with him. In yesterday's Economist, blastedly not online, regular columnist Charlemagne says Europeans are so taken with the man it may be necessary to downplay this passionate love affair, not to put off the U.S. electorate, supposedly wary of the Euro-trash factor.

Considering that Europe is mostly leftish and deeply put off by George W.Bush (the "I'm pro-American but anti-Bush" opinion has become a mantra here), could this resounding classroom crush for Kerry and his dashing eyebrows and cosmopolitan mien, so closely and fondly echoing our Kennedy affair, become a liability in the so-called heartlands of America? [in short, should we start pretending we can't stand the man or carry on enthusing?]
posted by MiguelCardoso at 8:30 PM on March 6, 2004


US poll opinion of France and Germany improves

Not as high as during the 90's, but half the country views France as "favorable." But yeah, let's keep hawking the Freedom Fries and pretend that hating everyone else is the American way.

The lower rating for France also corresponds with this Fox News poll - hardly a movement aimed at making Bush look bad- from last year noting over half the country caring "some" or "a lot" about foreign opinion of the U.S.

Nevertheless, I find it interesting how Kerry and Bush are both New England-born, mostly New-England-raised, mostly New-England-taught generational elitists. But Bush's image called into play is his "down home image" because he puts on a big hat and plays cowboy in Texas a few weeks out of the year, wheras the theme for Kerry will be associating him with Europe (translated: he's not a real American, so why should he run it?) on the basis of being intelligent.

Also, Miguel, I'm not really sure what your point is here when the first link of your FPP titled "Europe loves Kerry" links to an article that doesn't even include the word Europe, let alone mention it. If there's anything more to this post than "George Bush is more Amurcan than Kerry 'cuz Kerry speaks Frenchanese," I'm waiting to hear it.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 8:51 PM on March 6, 2004


Good point, XQU - I hadn't thought of the New England connection. It's interesting for a European that you have two upper-class/rich guys with such obvious differences in education.

As for my post, dammit boy, read the whole thing - the main link was to a reason for Kerry's likeability here (his liberalism), but there was also a link to the European connection and paraphrases of The Economist and Telegraph articles I read (not everything is online, you know, but that's no reason to mention it - you'll just have to trust me or check for yourself), as well as links to his European connections? What more do you want to answer the damn question? Oh wait, you did that already... ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 8:59 PM on March 6, 2004


You're not helping things, Miguel.
posted by interrobang at 9:17 PM on March 6, 2004


But yeah, let's keep hawking the Freedom Fries and pretend that hating everyone else is the American way.

Politics aside, I was kind of fond of "Freedom Fries." If only because a fry joint up my way offers a condiment called "war sauce." I was hoping they'd combine the two into some kind of "Guerilla Special."
posted by jonmc at 9:25 PM on March 6, 2004


I really don't think how the french and/or portuguese view kerry will change his popularity much in the general population. They don't seem to care much about what foreigners think of candidates... :)
posted by rhyax at 9:29 PM on March 6, 2004


jonmc, could you quit fucking pretending that you live on the lower east side? It's really fucking annoying.
posted by interrobang at 9:30 PM on March 6, 2004


I meant "up my way," as in New York City, Captain Geography. But for the benefit of the studio audience: I LIVE IN QUEENS!

Carry on.
posted by jonmc at 9:33 PM on March 6, 2004


interrobang - may I respectfully and friendly suggest you step back a while, have a drink and rejoin the community when you're feeling more participative and true to your normal self?
posted by MiguelCardoso at 9:36 PM on March 6, 2004


By the way, when have I ever "pretended" that I live on the Lower East Side? I may mention places in that area sometimes, but that's cause I like to hang around there. Anybody who's ever seen my user page or my blog knows that I live in Astoria. But apparently it's "break jonmc's balls month" on the intarweb.

This whole online thing is getting a lot less fun.
posted by jonmc at 9:39 PM on March 6, 2004


jonmc, you invoke the lower east side all the time.

What most mefites know is that you are a New York guy. You constantly invoke lower east side bars and hangouts, and you use them as a sort of "authority-through-everyday-guyness.

You use the lower east side like it's a badge of authority: "I am a regular guy - who doesn't vote - but I feel this way about such-and-such."

You try to have it both ways by claiming to be nonpartisan, but you temper that appearance by making it seem more legitimate with your sometime association with Avenue A. That is a disnegenuous way to approach things.
posted by interrobang at 9:50 PM on March 6, 2004


I live in New Jersey. I hope that contributes to the topic just as much as discussing where jonmc lives does.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 9:56 PM on March 6, 2004


Miguel: what I meant by what I said to you was that this fucking country is already mad enough at Europe that we introduced some new words into our language so that we could negate the concept of the French.

I don't agree with what we did - and I thought that the "freedom fries" thing was the most ridiculous thing I'd ever heard - but the solution to getting rid of the corrupt criminal George Bush is not the support of Europe.

There are already too many idiot assholes here who will automatically go against anything Europe wants just because Europe wants it.

Our problem is internal, like a sexually transmitted disease: it's probably incurable, it's definitely because we fucked Enron, and we're going to die from it unless something changes.
posted by interrobang at 9:57 PM on March 6, 2004


Pathetic attempt at giving jon his inventory by the way.
posted by sgt.serenity at 10:00 PM on March 6, 2004


This is a ridiculous conversation to spring out of a statement that was basically meant as a joke about french fries. If the restaurant had been on 59th street, I still would have referenced it to make the joke.

Look, I used to hang around that area a lot and i've seen a few interesting things there that I might have mentioned here, usually bars I used to drink in or restaurants and record stores. My politics and point of view come from my experience and ideas. I live and hang around in New York City because I like it here. My opinions are legitamite because they're mine.Just like your's are legitamite because they're yours.

NTM, the Lower East Side has changed a lot over the past few years. There's million dollar condos for sale on Rivington and Delancey and bars on Orchard Street that charge $6.50 for Rheingolds. If I wanted to pick an area as a "badge of authority," I could do better.

You always seemed like nice guy, interrobang. I dunno know what I did to deserve that.
posted by jonmc at 10:03 PM on March 6, 2004


Is this a royal train-wreck of a thread or what?
posted by MiguelCardoso at 10:03 PM on March 6, 2004


once we start talking about how jorge cadete is now playing for partick thistle it will be ..............
posted by sgt.serenity at 10:07 PM on March 6, 2004


Just ignore the troll, folks.
posted by spazzm at 10:08 PM on March 6, 2004


which one ?
posted by sgt.serenity at 10:08 PM on March 6, 2004


Is this a royal train-wreck of a thread or what?

My statements about jonmc aside (and I'm sorry, jonmc, I am not a nice guy, but I have always been annoyed by your posturing) I still stand by my statement several comments above to Miguel: America - like it or not, and I don't - is largely turned off by what Europe thinks right now.

I don't agree with it, but that's my impression, and that's germaine to the thread.
posted by interrobang at 10:10 PM on March 6, 2004


Seems more like you came in here with guns blazing with your snark at Miguel and then attacking me when all I did was make a harmless joke.

And for the record, I think that Europe's opinion of our potential president does matter if for no other reason than the fact that he'd be the person primarily repronsible for representing us abroad.
posted by jonmc at 10:27 PM on March 6, 2004


Europe is reading this thread and laughing at us.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 10:37 PM on March 6, 2004


I like pancakes.
posted by SPrintF at 10:40 PM on March 6, 2004


XQUZPHYR, for what it's worth, I'm sorry for making the joke, if that's what caused this trainwreck. But I also felt I had to defend myself after interrobang's personal attack.

Plus, I have no problem whatsoever with Europe. My mother was born there and I have a boatload of cousins there too.
posted by jonmc at 10:41 PM on March 6, 2004


And for the record, I think that Europe's opinion of our potential president does matter if for no other reason than the fact that he'd be the person primarily repronsible for representing us abroad.

I never said that it didn't. I was arguing that attention to it is possibly a negative thing, since it's already been established that right now - like it or not - America hates Europe.

I love Europe, and I love America. I just don't think that Europe's support of John Kerry in the media is a good thing to capitalize on: a sizeable amount of voting jackasses have been trained by the right-wing media to hate Europe.
posted by interrobang at 10:52 PM on March 6, 2004


I'm just interested in seeing how motivated the anti-bush vote is in america . I dont think an anti kerry vote would be at all comparable migs and theres no real chance of a similar foaming mouthed hatred happening any time soon , no matter what his connections are, or who likes him,
unless kerry picks bin laden as his running mate.
posted by sgt.serenity at 10:58 PM on March 6, 2004


Jeebus freakin' christ on a pogo stick, interrobang...WTF did Jon do - in this thread, or at all - to warrant such a personal attack? And the fact that you've "always been annoyed by his posturing?" Damn. I'm usually on the opposite end of the political spectrum from Jon, and I've "known" him for nearly two years, and he is one of the most unpretentious, un-postured guys around this joint.

And something else: I don't particularly care which portion of NYC he lives in -- Upper East Side, Lower East Side, Queens, Brooklyn, whatever -- he gets around quite a bit, and to someone whose last visit to NYC was back in about 1976 (me), Jon is full-blooded native NYC in my eyes.

Lighten up, man.
posted by davidmsc at 11:00 PM on March 6, 2004


I never said that it didn't. I was arguing that attention to it is possibly a negative thing, since it's already been established that right now - like it or not - America hates Europe.

Maybe. America's always been somewhat ambivalent about Europe, for a lot of reasons. But I don't think European support for a candidate is going to make or break the campaign. Anti-Bush sentiment is on the rise in a lot of different places. Many old-school libertarian-leaning conservatives are put off by his deficit spending and kowtowing to the Religious Right with the Gay Marraige nonsense. Moderates are getting antsier and antsier about the war and the economy. Liberals didn't like him to begin with. The type of schnook who would be negatively swayed by Europe's positive opinion of Kerry probably already had their mind made up.

I'm basing my predictions on the admittedly unscientific method of what I hear people I know say in real life and online. And because of how the 1992 elections went: Bush Sr. victorious in Gulf War I, everybody thought he was a shoo-in. But the economy cost him the election. And IIRC, Clinton was popular in Europe as well.
posted by jonmc at 11:03 PM on March 6, 2004


Also , its maybe off topic , but the republicans regarding of themselves as some sort of natural home for christians absolutely amazes me, at what point robbing the poor and being religious intersect , i really dont know.
posted by sgt.serenity at 11:06 PM on March 6, 2004


So, jonmc is running for president and is popular in Europe, but may or may not be a true New Yorker?
posted by namespan at 11:09 PM on March 6, 2004


Enough talk about me. I believe my Euro fan base consists of sarge and miguel.

As for sarges other comment: I believe I read somewhere that while something like 20% of Americans self-identify as "evangelical christians" ony something like 2/3 of that group are self-described Republicans. The leftward leaning evangelicals amy be accounted for at least somewhat by the African-American church. Also the Catholic Church has always had some fairly active leftward leaning people like the Brothers Berrigan & the Maryknolls. Much of the religion-invoking of the right is cynical pandering for political gain.
posted by jonmc at 11:16 PM on March 6, 2004


Moderates are getting antsier and antsier about the war and the economy. Liberals didn't like him to begin with. The type of schnook who would be negatively swayed by Europe's positive opinion of Kerry probably already had their mind made up.

That sounds very convincing, Jon. But I have to apologize for the lame topic - you were right from the start, as usual - as it really isn't an issue in the November elections. My post was motivated by a European phenomenon - unknown in my lifetime - which is this overwhelming support for a candidate so early in the game. On an anecdotal and impressionistic level, a lot of previously Bush-supporting conservative friends are now clearly rooting for Kerry - though they would still be happy if Bush won again. Like me, for instance. It's all good, as far I'm concerned. But everyone from ambivalent about to against Bush is passionate about Kerry to an extent I've never seen regarding an American election.

I think it's important to understand that for 99,9% Europeans the result of U.S. elections is unimportant - at most like the Oscars. It's nor really relevant, as Presidents tend to be, well, American and, whether Democratic or Republican, are soon coerced into the usual position regarding Europe. We end up liking/hating whoever's elected. I expect it's the same with you.

No big deal. But it's still unprecedented to find this level of sympathy and support, among right and left, for one particular candidate - in this case, Kerry.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 11:18 PM on March 6, 2004


Interrobang, has a point, most americans think of europe as the old family backhome who's either crazy or just plain out-of-touch,. and the films about europe in the US seem to be fish outta of water, where the 'normal' american makes fun of the natives..

Not a high rating,
lets breakdown the american foreigh Ideal
French = Smelly horny cowards
Germans = Crude Cruel Nazis
British = Absent minded polite bores
Italians = horny manic oily
Spanish = OLD mexicans
Polsih = (need we go thier)
Russian = sad ugly and insane
Swedes = Big blond and the other germans
Norway = VIKINGS (so we like them)
Finland = Phones!

This list is non-inclusive
posted by Elim at 11:19 PM on March 6, 2004


I don't care where jonmc used to live, but he talks about where he used to live a lot, and he does it in a way that's supposed to confirm his gritty authority.

I used to live where he used to live, and I've been reading this website for about two years.

Aside from the fact that jonmc plays the part constantly of the character who's so outside of things that he doesn't bother to vote, my point in this thread was not about jonmc. It was about Miguel's assertion that European political preferences mattered. I agree that those prefrerences matter.

I already said what I think earlier in the thred.
posted by interrobang at 11:21 PM on March 6, 2004


Jonmc, you gotta room in NY I could rent (and a job?)?
posted by Elim at 11:23 PM on March 6, 2004


Yeah, me too: let's avoid this issue completely.
posted by interrobang at 11:32 PM on March 6, 2004


metatalk
posted by sgt.serenity at 12:30 AM on March 7, 2004


With all due respect, the idea of someone objecting to a Queens resident desribing a LES restaurant as "up my way" is SO FUCKING NEW YORK.

Also, this made me laugh:
Spanish = OLD mexicans
Not sure why. Must be the gin.
posted by tingley at 12:31 AM on March 7, 2004


I lived in Massachusetts when Kerry was in office, and from the way things in Mass ran versus the way things in Texas are run are quite different, probably more so than any difference between Europe and the US. Big Oil and Enron style "virtual capital" pull longer strings than the Cape Cod Cranberry Bog lobby. Bush has ties to the Bin Ladens. Kerry, at best, is less than open about Quebec maple syrup smugglers.

I think that after Bush - and I do think that Kerry easily means "after Bush" - America has a lot of ties to mend with Europe - especially as an Economic partner. I don't think Americans really grasp the reality of the EU, how it works and what it means. They still grapple with those cowardly French and those Nazi Krauts and all the old stereotypes that served the post WWII generations so well.

I'm an American (Bronx born and raised) living in Europe. Listening to the BBC World Service Radio for over a decade has really opened my world view. Try it. It won't make anybody into a European overnight, but it is a planet away from the newsoid crap people will see presented on Fox news or even US CNN. There is more out there than news about Ashcroft and Michael Jackson. When world news comes on it doesn't mean that there must be some threatening situation.
posted by zaelic at 1:09 AM on March 7, 2004


I need to read metafilter more regularly during the weekend! this is a great thread, and I'm serious.

how bout this zinger? :
"Americans trust Ashcroft more than ACLU
and they support the Patriot Act, too!"


wtf? but as an austin, texan, the possibility of this is horrifying. you should hear the back-and-forth at the home depot.

(p.s. live the mantra: regime change in 04 regime change in 04 .. flush rinse, re-state)
posted by Peter H at 1:14 AM on March 7, 2004


Fucking keep this slime away from my lady and my babies!


posted by Peter H at 1:17 AM on March 7, 2004


YAAAWN. Goin to bed
but, to sgt serenity

the randi oakes link is a funny surprise, three down, three to the right. "But Randi also had to contend with loneliness, that ended when she met musician Michael Porcaro. And they were planning to be married until 30-year-old Gregory Harrison walked into her life during an episode of "The Battle Of The Network Stars". It was love at first sight, everyone watching the special could see the instant chemistry, and the rest is history..."

I don't know why I quote this. But I love bourbon!

but seriously, the ashcroft link above. It should worry you.

goodnight...
posted by Peter H at 1:30 AM on March 7, 2004


So there I was slicking back my hair, about to enter a familiar room at MeFi Towers, when suddenly I found myself crossing Delancey; my hair was whipping about in the wind, and I was swinging a surprisngly small European pickle at a wild-eyed ZIP code fetishist who threatened to kill me unless I declared myself inauthentic.

And then things really got strange.
posted by Opus Dark at 2:51 AM on March 7, 2004


Miguel: this is what you get for trying to bring up a topic that's not about food, wine, or cigars.
posted by zaelic at 3:23 AM on March 7, 2004


I miss New York. Queens, too - can't get a decent bagel or slice here, and you have to put up with the same obnoxious attitude from folks who live inside the Yamanote line and consider anything outside to be second class. Greetings from the Queens of Tokyo. Which would be a nice segue into another gay marriage train wreck. Yippee.
posted by bashos_frog at 5:20 AM on March 7, 2004


Fair is fair. Americans *do* see Euros as a collection of royalist fops, the soccer hooligan Liverpoolians who fought Napoleon and conquered India for a while, the French and other primates, and the goose-steppers.

But Europeans see Americans as either rocket-ship cowboys or tommy-gun Wall Street gangsters.

I still think that all the republicans will have to do to beat Kerry is just put a bunch of pictures of him on the Internet with a big black "L" on his forehead.
posted by kablam at 6:15 AM on March 7, 2004


I, umm, live around the corner from that fry place. And i'm a yuppie. Not an everyman. Everyman-types can't afford this neighborhood. (Although I do have a rent stabilized place).

Vote Blair in '04!
posted by swerdloff at 6:54 AM on March 7, 2004


Miguel: this is what you get for trying to bring up a topic that's not about food, wine, or cigars.

This was indeed a good question, Miguel. My immediate answer would be that it is important what Europeans think of the president elected in 2004, but most Americans could care less.

I find it interesting how Kerry and Bush are both New England-born, mostly New-England-raised, mostly New-England-taught generational elitists.

I hadn't thought of the New England connection. It's interesting for a European that you have two upper-class/rich guys with such obvious differences in education.

I think you and XQUZYPHYR are slighting missing the point here. Bush definitely was raised as a Texan, not a New Englander. And It's curious just how similar their education was: both went to exclusive private schools, then to Yale. (Thanks to 'affirmative action,' Bush got into Yale with SATs of barely 1200.)

According to this site:
Kerry was educated at Swiss boarding schools and attended an elite private school in New Hampshire, before enrolling in Yale University. . . .
Bush . . . spent his early years in Midland, Texas, going on to study at the exclusive Phillip's Academy in Andover, Mass. After his high school graduation in 1964, he enrolled at Yale University, like his father, George H.W. Bush, had done two decades before.


You might say that Kerry makes more use of his education than Bush. (Or maybe those years in Switzerland made a difference.) Or that he at least thinks things out. George, like Davy Crockett at the Alamo, seems to be more of the "Be sure you're right, then go ahead" mentality. That's mostly what this thread from yesterday was all about.

One thing is sure: they both are elitists. (Bush because of his dad's friends, Kerry because of his wife's money.) It'll be a cold day in Key West before Americans get to vote for someone for president from the Lower East Side.
posted by LeLiLo at 7:27 AM on March 7, 2004


to contribute to silly hijack (i can't help it 'cause this is so wrong)
about that LES v queens posturing, I have to admit I assumed at first interrobang was suggesting jonmc was trying to play the part of some kinda uber hipster / fashionista / alt-yuppie / rich metrosexual / etc, because if you know anything about new york these days, that's what the LES is about. If you're accusing him of posturing as some gritty "real nyer" type, then you should be pointing toward his referencing queens (although queens turned into the new williamsburg a few years back, so it's hardly "gritty" anymore) or the bronx or something.

Anyway, I don't think jonmc is posturing. He may sometimes get too bitter about people who less down to earth, but I think it's authentic bitterness :)

I doubt americans will really care what europe thinks because they won't know what europe thinks. When I'm in europe I'm amazed how much international news there is. In America, TV news is practically all local, with little bits about national and if there's, like a war or something, a piece on international stuff. Tabs are the same. Our few good papers don't even address most non-US related international stuff except on page 17 or whatever.
posted by mdn at 8:59 AM on March 7, 2004


I assumed at first interrobang was suggesting jonmc was trying to play the part of some kinda uber hipster / fashionista / alt-yuppie / rich metrosexual / etc,

Exactly. Yeesh. I'll never mention any place I've ever been in New York again if it'll make everybody happy.
posted by jonmc at 9:18 AM on March 7, 2004


Is this Lower East Side something you'd have to have a New York City to know about?
posted by ao4047 at 9:35 AM on March 7, 2004


One thing is sure: they both are elitists. (Bush because of his dad's friends, Kerry because of his wife's money.)
boy, THAT IS A THREAD KILLER.
posted by clavdivs at 9:38 AM on March 7, 2004


it's already been established that right now - like it or not - America hates Europe.

Well, Americans are supposed to love Tony Blair more than the British public, and if you believe the rumours, he's actually worried about what a Kerry victory would mean for his prospects in a 2005 election.

But isn't it obvious? Kerry makes the US look like a less scary, foreign place to those outside its borders. Less subject to the military-industrial complex, less beholden to people who treat the Bible as if it were a history book, less ignorant of the Big Outside, etc. Kerry reminds people of the large amount that there is to like about America and Americans: things that are too easy to forget whenever Bush opens his mouth. And that's nice, you know? It's like the way that family gatherings are more enjoyable when your drunk, bigoted uncle doesn't turn up.

If the Republicans want to use that fact against Kerry, and people are swayed by it when casting their vote, then, to be honest, they'll deserve what they get.
posted by riviera at 9:49 AM on March 7, 2004


I think that it is amusing that in a thread that includes talk about social class posturing, that someone can say "America hates Europe" as if America is a singular noun capable of hatred, and Europe is a singular noun capable of being hated.

It all depends on which Americans and which country. During the last war, Bush and his supporters were villifying France while praising England as a full partner (while trotting out the other European powers that jumped onto the gravy train to prove multilateralism.) Ireland and Italy are given a mythic status in the minds of both people with an ancestral connection to those countries, and wannabes. One of the big ironies is the post-war cultural partnership with England to the point where I suspect a lot of music consumers can't tell who is British and who is American any more. At the same time as the French baiting, British films Bend it Like Beckham and 28 Days Later were making respectible money for imports (I have $31mil and $45mil each.)

Certainly there are xenophobic Americans. But saying "America hates Europe" really does not capture how complex the relationship is.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 10:13 AM on March 7, 2004


Europe Is Deeply In Love With John Kerry. How Will America React?

what I wanna know is, how will ParisParamus react?
posted by mcsweetie at 10:23 AM on March 7, 2004


Hey! I live on the Lower East Side of Milwaukee....
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 12:43 PM on March 7, 2004


They're laughing at us over at monkeyfilter.

Now that the Europeans and all right thinking residents of Queens back Kerry, I have no choice. I must vote for Nader.

And the Belgians invented those fried potatoes not the French. Idiot Americans.
posted by Slagman at 1:22 PM on March 7, 2004


I thought that the "Guerrilla Special"-joke was funny...

But I also agree with Miguel. Support for Kerry here in Europe is already reaching epic proportions.
posted by hoskala at 1:28 PM on March 7, 2004


*Throws poo at MoFi*
posted by homunculus at 1:32 PM on March 7, 2004


I think this whole bit about where jonmc lives and where he pretends to live is very pertinent to the presidential race. After all, Bush is from Texas, right?
posted by crunchland at 1:43 PM on March 7, 2004


Oh, and don't forget. Dick Chaney is from Wyoming, right? And Arnold is from California, right?
posted by crunchland at 1:44 PM on March 7, 2004


I think this whole bit about where jonmc lives and where he pretends to live is very pertinent to the presidential race.

True, crunchland, true. Get jonmc out of the White House!
posted by namespan at 5:13 PM on March 7, 2004


I like what riviera said.
posted by Cyrano at 5:35 PM on March 7, 2004


Yeap. There's nothing I like more then paying $6.50 for Rheingolds and chillin' in my million dollar condo. Because I'm from the lower east side!
posted by delmoi at 7:24 PM on March 7, 2004


I also, uh. Like the um. Subway.
posted by delmoi at 7:25 PM on March 7, 2004


One thing is sure: they both are elitists. (Bush because of his dad's friends, Kerry because of his wife's money.)
boy, THAT IS A THREAD KILLER.


I think this thread (unfortunately) was killed long before I showed up, but I did use the wrong word. I was working from XQUZYPHYR's phrase mostly New-England-taught generational elitists. What I meant was that both are "among the financial elite" (because of dad and wife), which isn't the same thing. Kerry is by far the richest of the 40 or so millionaire senators (his net worth is between $200 and $840 million), and Bush's net worth is estimated to be $9 to $22 million.

So we probably won't find either one of them on the Lower East Side, slopping war sauce on their (Belgian) Freedom Fries. Or in the, um, subway.
posted by LeLiLo at 5:00 AM on March 8, 2004


Is this Lower East Side something you'd have to have a New York City to know about?

The primary feature of Toronto's Lower East Side is an Ikea, so I'm guessing yes.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 11:28 AM on March 8, 2004


Enough talk about me. I believe my Euro fan base consists of sarge and miguel.

nah. count oily, horny, manic me in as well.

I've recently seen Kerry's wife on Italian TV -- her Italian is very good. it was a on-the-fly interview after a long day on the campaign trail, she was obviously very tired, but still her Italian was pretty impressive.

I've always been surprised at the neighborhood obsession that seems to plague New Yorkers. but anyway this thread made me laugh out loud. really. and I'm usually a pretty glum bastard.


but I also think Miguel should stick to non-political FPP's. and Carlos, too
;)

posted by matteo at 5:24 PM on March 8, 2004


Liverpoolians
Liverpudlians
posted by inpHilltr8r at 6:53 PM on March 8, 2004


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