Defamer.

May 28, 2004 6:16 PM

Defamer.LA is the world's cultural capital. Defamer is the gossip rag it deserves. Oh, but it's much better than that. Smart, funny, ever so slightly understated satire and snappy, sarcastic commentary. [via wonkette]
posted by bingo (43 comments total)

This post brought to you by Nick Denton and Pepsi Blue®
posted by jeremias at 6:22 PM on May 28, 2004

Whatever. I'd never been to Nick Denton's site until I just clicked on your link.
posted by bingo at 6:26 PM on May 28, 2004

bingo - Denton's the publisher.
posted by kickingtheground at 6:34 PM on May 28, 2004

Kinja (broken still) is one of his babies right?
posted by dabitch at 6:38 PM on May 28, 2004

LA is the world's cultural capital.

Whatever... I prefer to think of it as a cultural wasteland... or a bunch of suburbs searching for a city.

Burn Hollywood Burn
posted by jasenlee at 7:11 PM on May 28, 2004

don't forget gizmodo and fleshbot [nsfw].

there's actually an interesting article in this month's wired about denton's 'empire'.
posted by birdherder at 7:13 PM on May 28, 2004

jeremias, I gotta call bullshit on the Pepsi Blue call. As I understand it, that's applicable for a link to a site hawking a product that isn't the web site itself. Yes this is part of Denton's 'Gawker' empire, just as the 900 permutations of Google have been part of their empire - but if it's an interesting site in and of itself, it's worthwhile. And if nothing else, I say any site that quotes Daniel Radosh as though he's a household name ("Radosh") deserves our support.

Plus he has the link to Wonkette & Washingtonienne's "laterer" photos that wonkette was too prudish to link to.
posted by soyjoy at 7:44 PM on May 28, 2004

gawker, wonkette, defamer, whatever... it's all insular trite shit that you couldn't pay me to be interested in. the only reason why i've even heard of them is because one of my hostees is regularly mentioned/linked on 2 of those sites - i thought that indicated they were smart and worth reading, but i was entirely mistaken.

LA is the world's cultural capital.

hollywood does not equal culture. unless the culture you mean is a creeping toxic mold.
posted by t r a c y at 8:55 PM on May 28, 2004

What is it about LA and NYC that leads to an over-inflated sense of their own cultural importance?
posted by KirkJobSluder at 8:58 PM on May 28, 2004

"The difference between Los Angeles and yogurt is that yogurt has a active living culture."
(My Google-fu failed me in attributing this classic quotation)
posted by wendell at 9:09 PM on May 28, 2004

Amen, KirkJobSluder, though I'd add the Bay Area to that group.
posted by keswick at 9:16 PM on May 28, 2004

"The difference between Los Angeles and yogurt is that... no member of a yogurt team ever raped anyone.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 9:26 PM on May 28, 2004

I think the people who write for the site would agree with the attacks on LA culture. The "cultural capital" remark is made, if not completely tongue-in-cheek, then at least with a great deal of cynicism.
posted by bingo at 9:32 PM on May 28, 2004

While I'm generally pretty warm towards these Denton blogs, I find myself not caring too much. Nothing wrong with Defamer, but I think it's just a bit too McBlog at this point. Seen it before, you know? Hard to get excited.
posted by dong_resin at 9:53 PM on May 28, 2004

I agree with dong resin. Good, but not essential. Funny, but not classic.
posted by cell divide at 10:02 PM on May 28, 2004

Hey, I happen to be surrounded by motherfucking culture here in Los Angeles. Sure, Demi Moore is probably blowing some teenager in the back room of some painfully hip bistro. Fine. Just as long as her SUV isn't blocking traffic as I try and get to the Werner Herzog film festival up the street.
posted by scody at 10:40 PM on May 28, 2004

Well, if he has anything to do with Gizmodo, he has some instant street cred for me. i love that site.
posted by quin at 12:24 AM on May 29, 2004

Look out for a McSnarkBlog opening near you.
posted by riviera at 5:06 AM on May 29, 2004

I think the mock poster for "The Day After Tomorrow" and the article about the woman who was pretending not to get fired are hilarious. I don't care if the money behind it comes from the editor of The New York Times or some kid down the block with a lucrative lemonade stand.
posted by bingo at 6:09 AM on May 29, 2004

Heh. I actually got up to speed on this thanks to a recent jonmc blog post.

One thing I've learned in my time in the US is that the words culture, history, antique, tasteful & artistic - like fanny, fag, rubber, jumper & lift - have different meanings to what I've been used to.
posted by i_cola at 8:02 AM on May 29, 2004

Well, if he has anything to do with Gizmodo, he has some instant street cred for me. i love that site.

Agreed. OT: The Gizmodo vs Engadget personnel fight turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to Giz. Now Gizmodo has funny writing and clever features, whereas Engadget is just plain boring.
posted by mr.marx at 8:22 AM on May 29, 2004

I'm no expert certainly, since I was born and raised in New York, and I shared the anti-LA attitude - until I lived there on assignment for a year... LA's not for everybody, since as a culture it seems to disdain the not-young, not-beautiful and not-hip-self-identified, so it takes a very strong sense of self to operate there successfully. But having lived there and enjoyed it, I just find the kind of anti-LA-screed seen above comes from those who don't actually live there, but instead see it as a convenient and, frankly, done-done-and-overdone target for condescension to bolster their own self-esteem...

(Oh, and some of you really should read the links before commenting; despite the terminology throwback to bonzo eBiz days, Defamer's method seems to be ironic, that is for you playing along at home, "we don't really believe this shit, we're just publishing it to call attention to how much we don't believe it..." Note that they don't admire LA any more than most of you profess to...)
posted by JollyWanker at 11:52 AM on May 29, 2004

Jolly Wanker: But having lived there and enjoyed it, I just find the kind of anti-LA-screed seen above comes from those who don't actually live there, but instead see it as a convenient and, frankly, done-done-and-overdone target for condescension to bolster their own self-esteem...

Or a reaction to the done-done-and-overdone condescension from coasters who assume "flyover" country is a wasteland.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 4:46 PM on May 29, 2004

Hmm. So if I'm reading y'all right, "culture" isn't the stuff we live and breathe every day, the entertainment we consume at night and talk about every day. Rather, it's something that those with "taste" (read: the rarified elite) produce and that the more intelligent (and rich) appreciate. (it's especially hilarious hearing this attitude from those down home folks in 'flyover country')
Face it: LA's output defines you more than you'd ever care to admit. It is, more than any other city, the world's culture capital. Get over it.
posted by Treeline at 6:30 AM on May 30, 2004

Hahahahaahaha!
Not everyone lives in the USA with their heads stuck, Treeline
posted by i_cola at 11:03 AM on May 30, 2004

Treeline: Well, there is an interesting contradiction there. The folks who use "flyover country" with a straight face define their centrisim in terms of "high culture." If what you are talking about is the stuff we live, breathe, and talk about every day, I find that most of it is local anyway in that sports, office gossip, and family dramas are far more interesting that what is produced on television.

LA as a center for entertainment production was invented and there was no reason why it cannot be reinvented or replaced elsewhere.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 11:16 AM on May 30, 2004

I grew up in Kansas City. It's more than "fly-over country."
I lived in L.A. for five years.
I didn't like it.
There is more to culture in America than what Hollywood dictates.
Nonetheless, many of us are immersed in pop culture references in one way or another, even if many of those references are cynical/ironic.
The folks at Defamer are not suggesting that the kind of culture Hollywood propogates is, on the whole, worthwhile, any more than the Wonkette site is about what a wonderful place to live Washington DC is (in fact, substantially less so, really).
This has been a lesson for me in how not to choose the quote to include in an FPP. I was hoping for discussion of the site itself, and not an argument what the FPP quote might mean if taken completely out of context.
posted by bingo at 11:18 AM on May 30, 2004

Los Angeles is a cultural center for more reasons than just Hollywood.

But, hey, that's cool, go ahead and trash LA. Keeps my rent low and the lines short.
posted by samh23 at 1:08 PM on May 30, 2004

and KCRW, Cinespia, Morphosis, NPR West, Zocalo, Kill Radio...

I dislike "Hollywood" as much as the next guy, but don't say LA has no culture.
posted by 4easypayments at 1:50 PM on May 30, 2004

I dislike "Hollywood" as much as the next guy, but don't say LA has no culture.

*sigh*, the issue is not that there is a lot of great stuff in LA. But with the too-often expressed attitude that there is nothing worth becoming involved in elsewhere.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 6:33 PM on May 30, 2004

Well i-cola, have you ever lived anywhere outside the US? In my experience it's pretty difficult to avoid Hollywood product or Hollywood-influenced product. Listen to any country's pop music or watch their TV shows. Ask the kids and teens what they like. Go to their movie theaters and you'll most often see a dubbed hollywood movie. Is the behavior of the people influenced by this or not?

KJS, I hear what you're saying, but people's everyday behavior is hugely influenced by what they absorb from tv. Humans imitate. Even those who proudly proclaim that their head isn't stuck are critters of their culture. (what bingo said)

Note that I also hate the self important you-are-where-you-live types and also prefer life away from any country's commercial centers. But I loathe the substitution of "culture" for "high culture". Those who use it should wake up and see that their vaunted taste mainly reflects how they wish to be seen and/or their socioeconomic background.
posted by Treeline at 8:03 PM on May 30, 2004

Listen to any country's pop music or watch their TV shows. Ask the kids and teens what they like. Go to their movie theaters and you'll most often see a dubbed hollywood movie.

You sir/madam, are insane.
posted by mr.marx at 8:16 PM on May 30, 2004

So you are (cough) making the argument that Sweden has a self sustaining film industry, that Sweden's television shows aren't heavily informed by hollywood production techniques and that sweden's pop music is a product of traditional swedish culture? Are Swedish teens now aping what they see in this wonderful Swedish culture machine?
If so, I'm very surprised. Tell me more. Please enlighten me about this cultural island that is Sweden.
posted by Treeline at 9:12 PM on May 30, 2004

apologies - i posted in anger.
Mr. Marx, I'm clearly not arguing that the world is just like the US or LA, just that LA is the largest producer of culture in the world and that the product has a large influence on culture across the world. This is true to varying degrees across the developed world.

You sir/madam, are insane.
If you've got an argument, make it.
posted by Treeline at 9:37 PM on May 30, 2004

Well i-cola, have you ever lived anywhere outside the US?

i_cola isn't an American.

And I have to say that I've been to Sweden and, while they are certainly not unaware of American culture, they definitely have plenty of their own cultural shit going on, they're proud and somewhat aloof people, they sure as shit have their own music and cinema, and in general I think that Sweden is one of the worst examples you could have picked for the point you're trying to make.
posted by bingo at 2:52 AM on May 31, 2004

That "toxic" song Britney is singing lately? Swedish.
posted by dabitch at 2:54 AM on May 31, 2004

...and I know you're not saying that they *don't* have their own culture. But, while I agree that we have the world's biggest "buy our shit now" machine, we also have a kind of insular arrogance about how much people must care about the shit that we're peddling, and the degree to which they have plenty of other options available. We don't get much Swedish stuff widely distributed here, but that's more a symptom of the fact that our own machine is keeping us saturated with Americana than that the rest of the world is lapping up what we export.

...and the Swedes are damn sexy, too.
posted by bingo at 3:03 AM on May 31, 2004

...Britney sings?
posted by bingo at 3:07 AM on May 31, 2004

well, she squeals or something when not being in the press for no reason. 'Baby, Hit me one more time' was also written by Swedes.
posted by dabitch at 3:13 AM on May 31, 2004

The Gizmodo vs Engadget personnel fight turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to Giz. Now Gizmodo has funny writing and clever features, whereas Engadget is just plain boring.

Nope, Engadget is as good as Gizmodo used to be, while Giz isn't half as funny as it thinks it is.

Also, MF front page is no place for links to a Denton blog - anyone hanging here will probably know of them.

posted by ascullion at 3:20 AM on May 31, 2004

Treeline: ....But I loathe the substitution of "culture" for "high culture".

...that LA is the largest producer of culture in the world...

I loathe the substitution of "product" for "culture." That is not to say that product is not a part of culture, but that there is a heck of a lot of culture that is not represented by Hollywood product including such things as family recipies, high school sports histories, and personal and professional connections. The notion that culture is a product rather than something you participate in is one of the biggest self-perpetuating myths of Hollywood.

*Shrug* perhaps I'm just surrounded by relatives who would rather talk about neighbors and extended family than "Friends." TV is just a way to keep up with the news or the regional professional sports teams.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 7:59 AM on May 31, 2004

Treeline: Brit-born, been around a few places since. Hence the laughter. LA (or more specifically the Burbank-Hollywood axis) might have US culture by the danglies but it's merely an adjunct at best in many places.

If you want to talk about cultural influence, the language we're using is a good starting point. A lot of things happened before the 1920's y'know ;-)

bingo: In my mind you will forevermore be posting in that suit & MeFi-blue shirt...
posted by i_cola at 1:31 PM on May 31, 2004

i_cola: LA (or more specifically the Burbank-Hollywood axis) might have US culture by the danglies but it's merely an adjunct at best in many places.

Heh, for that matter, much of the television and movie industry does not seem to reflect the greater LA area if my excursions last year around Anaheim and local radio are to be believed.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 2:36 PM on May 31, 2004