Some lysol, bleach, heavy duty trash bags...

May 30, 2004 6:06 PM

Calling the 'cleaner' - like Harvey Keitel, who has both played a 'cleaner' and become one in real life, Zbigniew Brzezinski now moves in to rectify the mess. "The present policy - justified by falsehoods, pursued with unilateral arrogance, blinded by self-delusion, and stained by sadistic excesses - cannot be corrected with a few hasty palliatives."
posted by troutfishing (16 comments total)

Brzezinski's cool. Yeah, I'm a foreign policy nerd. There's hardly anything in nerdom that has escaped my grasp. I recommend that people read George Kennan and my man, Zbigny. But then, I would.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 6:32 PM on May 30, 2004

youse can all get fucked n shit cos that;s kust not rihgt and I'm so drunk right now but I stand by all the commmetns I've made slp yeash!!!!

Now that's a definite PUI.
posted by y2karl at 6:41 PM on May 30, 2004

Well the cleaning job is about to get messier. It seems we have a little dispute brewing over who will become president. The Iraqi governing council demanded that the largely ceremonial post should go to Sheikh Ghazi Mashal Ajil al-Yawar, an Arab businessman in his 40s who has criticized the US-led occupation and who is the council's president. Paul Bremer has apparently threatened to ignore their vote.
posted by caddis at 6:49 PM on May 30, 2004

So, could we get this Administration naked in Tarantino's back yard and hose them all down?
posted by trondant at 6:52 PM on May 30, 2004

Yes -- except they all get to wear the "I'm with stupid" shirts.
posted by Zonker at 7:12 PM on May 30, 2004

I was thinking the pliers/blowtorch treatment would be more appropriate.
posted by mr.marx at 7:23 PM on May 30, 2004

Boy, oh boy, this thread is starting out real dodgey. You know, you can't say truthout without saying trout. Just try it.

[Thanks for the great links!]
posted by squirrel at 8:14 PM on May 30, 2004

"In 1970 a young Polish intellectual named Zbigniew Brzezinski foresaw the rising economic power of Japan, and postwar Europe. Brzezinski idealized the theories of Karl Marx. In his book, Between Two Ages, as in subsequent writings, he argued that balance-of-power politics was out, and world-order politics was in.
The initial world order was to be a trilateral economic linkage between Japan, Europe, and the United States. David Rockefeller funded Brzezinski, and called together an organization, named the Trilateral Commission, with Brzezinski as its first executive secretary, and director.

The stated goals of the Trilateral Commission are: "Close Trilateral cooperation in keeping the peace, in managing the world economy, in fostering economic redevelopment, and alleviating world poverty will improve the chances of a smooth, and peaceful evolution of the global system."
*
So, can Brzezinski reasonably be described as a multilateralist, a globalist, and a proponent of the New World Order? And if so, is his criticism more based in philosophy, rather than pragmatism?

I think the answer is yes. And he is upset that everybody isn't doing it his way.
posted by kablam at 8:22 PM on May 30, 2004

You know, you can't say truthout without saying trout. Just try it.

What are you talking about?
---
Anyway, erm the part about Keitel was great. As far as the whole Iraq thing, who cares? Isn't the whole thing over and done with like a year ago?
posted by delmoi at 10:16 PM on May 30, 2004

His book "The Grand Chessboard" I believe was very influential to the PNAC neo-con crowd although he is not
one of them. His latest book "The Choice" harsh criticism
of the Unilateral policies that got us in the mess. Troutfishing you summed it up succintly Brez is the cleaner!
But he provided a template with that helped to make the mess.
posted by thedailygrowl at 10:22 PM on May 30, 2004

Anyway, erm the part about Keitel was great. As far as the whole Iraq thing, who cares? Isn't the whole thing over and done with like a year ago?

Irony, right?
posted by Fat Buddha at 1:45 AM on May 31, 2004

When will the right wing smear campaign begin?

3-2-1 . . .
posted by sic at 2:03 AM on May 31, 2004

I liked this speech that he (not Harvey Keitel) gave last October.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 2:36 AM on May 31, 2004

sic - you mean on this thread, or on Zbig ? As far as the thread goes, you'll notice that I haven't alerted their search spiders with the words "Iraq" or "Bush".

But I don't think anyone's going to attack Zbig.

He would have wholeheartedly endorsed many types of aggressive projections of American power provided those were done with some grace, forethought, and crucially, consensus achieved by backroom arm twisting sweetened by treats and kind public pronouncements.

But now, he's moving in with a sharp blade, and chloroform, to neuter the hounds of war who've been pissing all over the US' next several decade's geopolitical prospects.

___________________________________

squirrel - I do read Trouthout (or pay attention to it's collected news articles, actually) although I occasionally get the urge to squish William Rivers Pitt, like a Warner Bros. cartoon character, with a huge wooden mallet.

He'd just pop back up again and keep on talking.

____________________________________

Kablam - "So, can Brzezinski reasonably be described as a multilateralist, a globalist, and a proponent of the New World Order?......I think the answer is yes." : I think the answer is yes, and no as well. The "Grand Chessboard" was quite heavily pragmatic, in a Machiavellian way.

Brzezinski might be described as a "multilateralist, a globalist, and a proponent of the New World Order", yes, but that is to miss the possibility that he is - foremost - a pragmatist.

The difference between an ideologue and a pragmatist is that, while for the ideologue ideology pulls the cart, the pragmatist lets observed circumstances pull the cart, and chuckles to himself, or rolls his eyes, as those carts yoked to ideology are pulled over cliffs into the abyss.

[ * drum roll, or cue Warner Bros. cartoon music * ]

Jealousy ?

Zbig is merely disgusted by the gawdawfull mess the Busholescents have made as they go through a learning curve process - of discovering that reality doesn't always conform especially well to inside-the-beltway think tank ideology - on the public dime (err...a little more than a dime) and with incalculable consequences.

Brzezinski has watched the Bush Administration, watched and waited - cautious of squandering his political capital - for a certain point when 1) he was certain of the necessity and 2) his voice could potentially tip the balance.

Now, he moves in for the kill .
posted by troutfishing at 7:51 AM on May 31, 2004

troutfishing: "...moves in for the kill?" Kill what?
Brzezinski has long fitted into the class of those not content to see the future unfold, but who want to control the future, to help bring about its "inevitable", always "inevitable", end, as they see it.

And such people are *always* disappointed with the results, when what had been their ideal future materializes into a so-so, or not what they wanted at all, present.

The difference is between demanding a static future, that only has to be 'managed', as opposed to a truly pragmatic outlook, that 'there will always be new and different problems, so there must always be new and better solutions. (And it most likely will be other people who think of them.)'

Brzezinski's original problem was again that
"...balance-of-power politics was out, and world-order politics was in." How easy, how understandable, and how wrong to generalize ALL of what goes on in world politics under two easy to understand catagories.

Balance-of-power politics is still IN. As is world-order politics. And mercantilism. And Socialism. And Capitalism. And Vandalism vs. Civilization. et cetera, et cetera. In fact, the only thing that is *almost* out is Royalism.

All fighting each other, and all the time. Which is why a true pragmatic never says, "look how you screwed up." They say, "how can we adapt the *current* situation to best advantage?"
posted by kablam at 9:55 AM on May 31, 2004

Kablam - Though I agree with much of what you've just said, I thin this is really very simple - Zbig wants the Bush crowd out. They've proved too dense.

Sometimes the purely pragmatic thing to do is to pull the emergency brake before the train goes or a cliff or crashes from a damaged bridge down into a swamp filled with hungry crocodiles.
posted by troutfishing at 11:59 AM on May 31, 2004