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Two-digit code cooks the books
August 31, 2004 11:23 AM   Subscribe

By entering a 2-digit code in a hidden location in the Diebold voting machine, a second set of votes is created. "This set of votes can be changed, so that it no longer matches the correct votes. The voting system will then read the totals from the bogus vote set. It takes only seconds to change the votes, and to date not a single location in the U.S. has implemented security measures to fully mitigate the risks."
posted by mr_crash_davis (75 comments total)

 
FarkFilter? :-)
posted by clevershark at 11:31 AM on August 31, 2004


"This Account Has Been Suspended"

Why don't we adopt the mercuri method and be done with it?
posted by zelphi at 11:34 AM on August 31, 2004


"This account has been suspended"

Do I smell conspiracy?
posted by PigAlien at 11:37 AM on August 31, 2004


If this is so, then the election's over. Everyone in states that use Diebold machines had better vote absentee.
posted by amberglow at 11:38 AM on August 31, 2004


I have the first two pages, if anyone is interested... got the "account suspended" thing on the third.
posted by pascal at 11:41 AM on August 31, 2004


"FarkFilter? :-)"

Hmm. That explains why it was so slow (and seems to be dead now). I got the link via email.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 11:43 AM on August 31, 2004


pascal: send them to me and I'll mirror them.
posted by bshort at 11:45 AM on August 31, 2004


* taps foot impatiently *

Y'know, if this were a y2karl or troutfishing post, we'd already be reading the content right on this page.
posted by soyjoy at 11:53 AM on August 31, 2004


This seems to be the same article. Correct me if I'm wrong.
posted by soyjoy at 11:54 AM on August 31, 2004


here

on preview: damn, soyjoy steals my whuffies
posted by mr.marx at 11:57 AM on August 31, 2004


Hey, all the etiquette wars here recently, a guy has to be careful y'know.
posted by pascal at 12:01 PM on August 31, 2004


Do I smell conspiracy?

More likely an unpaid hosting bill. The .com is still perfectly accessible, but I can't find the article. The .org is registered to Bev Harris; the .com is registered to David Allen.
posted by ar0n at 12:11 PM on August 31, 2004


NOTE: A similarly named site (BlackBoxVoting.com) is owned by someone else. That is a commercial site not affiliated in any way with the nonprofit Black Box Voting organization, nor with the founder, investigative journalist Bev Harris.
posted by pascal at 12:14 PM on August 31, 2004


For what it's worth, here's a text-only mirror.
posted by bshort at 12:16 PM on August 31, 2004


So, uh, can anybody here offer proof or contradictory evidence that the information in the article is untrue? Cause this is beyond scary.
posted by junkbox at 12:35 PM on August 31, 2004


In districts that have always gone Democratic, are there legal procedures in place if this is used to swing it Republican?
posted by amberglow at 12:36 PM on August 31, 2004


If this is so, then the election's over. Everyone in states that use Diebold machines had better vote absentee.

That won't help:

Whether you vote absentee, on touch-screens, or on paper ballot (fill in the bubble) optical scan machines, all votes are ultimately brought to the "mother ship," the central tabulator at the county which adds them all up and creates the results report. [...] The central tabulator is far more vulnerable than the touch screen terminals.
posted by vorfeed at 12:37 PM on August 31, 2004


Unfuckingbelievable....

I am lost for words...
posted by EmoChild at 1:04 PM on August 31, 2004


h4ck th3 c0un+ry!!!
posted by neckro23 at 1:08 PM on August 31, 2004


The whole site has just started giving 403s as I was right in the middle of reading it....
posted by Daddio at 1:11 PM on August 31, 2004


Looks like the site's back up...
posted by matty at 1:41 PM on August 31, 2004


are there legal procedures in place if this is used to swing it Republican?

Guns, I suppose.
posted by aramaic at 1:58 PM on August 31, 2004


Stories about how these revelations are made, and the subsequent lack of anyone caring, are really what toss me over the line from caring about changing the government and its policies to saying that the American people deserve what they get.

I'm saddened but rapidly becomming committed to the belief that no one is going to care about this until a blatant error that puts the 2000 Florida fiasco to shame occurs.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 1:59 PM on August 31, 2004


Uhhmm... it's on a site called conspiracy planet? How reliable is this source? Where did they get this info?

If anything, I'd tend to believe this sort of thing is true, but I have a hard time swallowing it as truth from a site I've never heard of that's named specifically about conspiracies.. seems shady to me..
posted by twiggy at 2:09 PM on August 31, 2004


You know what it'll take to get people to pay attention to this? A whole state going for Nader or one of the other third party candidates. Anything else will have plausible deniability (for the public at large, anyway).

White hats: get on it.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 2:09 PM on August 31, 2004


if a blue state goes red, or a swing state goes red beyond a slight margin, we'll know why, and hopefully people will sue immediately.
posted by amberglow at 2:13 PM on August 31, 2004


Twiggy: the main link is to BlackBoxVoting.org, which was live with the article 30sec ago when I double-checked.
posted by aramaic at 2:16 PM on August 31, 2004


Amberglow, that "sue" business didn't work out so well the last time...

People who want to make a difference in the election process should volunteer to be poll workers. At least it's a start. And the polls need workers under 70.

Twiggy, the BlackBoxVoting people may or may not be 100% correct with their facts, but they're not crazy hothead types by any stretch of the imagination.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:32 PM on August 31, 2004


what are the other options, Sidhedevil? Suing is all we got, if this shit is going to happen. A poll worker wouldn't see this or be able to do anything about it.
posted by amberglow at 2:36 PM on August 31, 2004


Here are some other stories about Bev Harris and the BlackBoxVoting folks.

And some other stories about problems with electronic voting machines.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:39 PM on August 31, 2004


I think everyone needs to get out and vote for the candidates of their choice, and they should do whatever they can to ensure that a paper record is kept of their vote (if California can do it, so can the smaller states).

And, Amberglow, who do you think is going to rig the vote if it's not the poll workers? Diebold and the other companies? They would be foolish to try at this point given the attention that is being focused on the problem.

The reason for poll workers in the US has historically been to combat tabulation fraud. Poll workers from all political backgrounds should be taking an active part in vote tabulation to do whatever they can to ensure fairness.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:43 PM on August 31, 2004


it's over.

tell your friends, your loved ones, every person you encounter when you walk the streets of your city: america is over.

it had a good run, it was a shining example and a dream come true for a number of years, but it's done.

actually, i'm over-reacting. things won't be so bad for most folks in the new america. they'll let us keep our value menus at fast food restaurants, and our sports teams, and our reality shows. they'll probably even let a few "indie" and "opposition" radio stations keep broadcasting, some dissenting articles will continue to appear in non-mainstream papers. hell, a lot of people don't vote anyway, so they won't notice or care.

maybe we should change the national anthem from "the star-spangled banner" to "comfortably numb"?

but i have a serious question: what can those of us who care do that will actually matter? if i took a job as a poll worker, how could i guarantee electronic votes weren't being electronically stolen? i don't know how to program computers or provide security for networked systems, so that's out. if i march in a protest, i'll be dismissed and ignored as an anti-civilization, american-hating member of The Left. if i write a letter, i'll get a form reply thanking me for my time and reassuring me that my congressperson or governor is working hard on the issues that matter to me.

seriously, what can we do?
posted by lord_wolf at 2:44 PM on August 31, 2004


Seriously, Lord Wolf, if you were already a poll worker, you would have some leverage with your state's Election Commission to demand an audit of the electronic voting and tabulation machines being used.

Seeing as you are not already a poll worker, you can call your municipality, county, and state election commission/authority and insist on talking with someone there about what is being done. Let them know that you're willing to volunteer to be a poll worker only if you feel that the voting process is going to be on the up and up.

You can also write letters to your local newspaper and to all the magazines you read. You can call in to radio talk shows (misleading the call screeners if necessary) and discuss the problem. You can call in to C-SPAN. You can call in to Howard Stern and/or Don Imus and try to get them worked up about this. You can write a letter to 60 Minutes asking them to do a piece on the problem. You can write a letter to "The Daily Show" asking them to have Bev Harris as a guest.

You can talk with your friends about it.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:50 PM on August 31, 2004


This pretty much puts the nails in our collective coffin.

I still think that the more serious problem is an electorate that is too overwhelmed with poor information and too apathetic to make good decisions. (Can I say, looking for the candidate with mojo, with style, etc) It looks like Bush might even win honestly this time around. *looks to his right and left at other American voters and shudders*
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 3:08 PM on August 31, 2004


thank you for the suggestions, Sidhedevil.

i will try some of those things, and i will try to get my friends to try some of them as well. i was about ready to give up far too early, i guess. there's still time to fight.

thanks again.
posted by lord_wolf at 3:13 PM on August 31, 2004


That's fucked up - right there. That thing. There.

It's not enough that the software was written using Access, that there isn't a paper trail, that the software is closed source and unauditable, but now it looks as though a back door has been added which will allow the right person to fix the elections.

You might as well have a great big red button on the side of all voting machines labelled "Fix elections now"

If this is true, and this isn't front page news in your country, then your whole democratic system is completely messed up.
posted by seanyboy at 3:41 PM on August 31, 2004


Let me join the calm, objective opinions expressed here: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!! Well, the good news is you can now safely claim the election was "stolen" if the outcome is not to your liking.

The article makes allusions to internal memos, an alleged examination of Diebold software (which I'm fairly sure is closed source), a "smoking gun document," a demonstration no one appears to have actually seen, and implores me to "donate now" at the bottom of every page.

Yes, from the far more credible sources I've read, Diebold's voting machines appear to be insecure, error-prone crap, and yes, an allegation of this magnitude would be very significant if true, but I really would like to hear this information verified by someone who, at the very least, doesn't have the markings of a crackpot.

Until then, don't count on my AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!
posted by Krrrlson at 3:59 PM on August 31, 2004


Seeing as you are not already a poll worker, you can call your municipality, county, and state election commission/authority and insist on talking with someone there about what is being done. Let them know that you're willing to volunteer to be a poll worker only if you feel that the voting process is going to be on the up and up.

And they will laugh in your face for being so fucking naive.

"On April 21, 2004, Harris appeared before the California Voting Systems Panel, and presented the smoking gun document showing that Diebold had not corrected the GEMS flaws, even though it had updated and upgraded the GEMS program."

" On Aug. 11, 2004, Jim March formally requested that the Calfornia Voting Systems Panel watch the demonstration of the double set of books in GEMS. They were already convened, and the time for Harris was already allotted. Though the demonstration takes only 3 minutes, the panel refused to allow it and would not look. They did, however, meet privately with Diebold afterwards, without informing the public or issuing any report of what transpired. "

You can write a letter to 60 Minutes asking them to do a piece on the problem.

"On Aug. 18, 2004, Harris and Stephenson, together with computer security expert Dr. Hugh Thompson, and former King County Elections Supervisor Julie Anne Kempf, met with members of the California Voting Systems Panel and the California Secretary of State's office to demonstrate the double set of books. The officials declined to allow a camera crew from 60 Minutes to film or attend. ... The undersecretary of state, Mark Kyle, left the meeting early, and one voting panel member, John Mott Smith, appeared to sleep through the presentation."

You can talk with your friends about it.

Whoop-de-do.

"When you put a two-digit code into a secret location can you disengage the vote tables, so that tampered totals table don't have to match precinct by precinct results. This way, it will pass a spot check -- even with paper ballots -- but can still be rigged."

Ladies and gentlemen, we in the States are fucked like a two-dollar whore.
posted by IshmaelGraves at 4:07 PM on August 31, 2004


Americans, could you stop exporting democracy to the rest of the world now, please? Because, y'know, a refusal often offends.
posted by Hogshead at 4:16 PM on August 31, 2004


Also: Shut the fuck up, Krrrlson, and learn to use the fucking Internet.
posted by IshmaelGraves at 4:17 PM on August 31, 2004


Also: Shut the fuck up, Krrrlson, and learn to use the fucking Internet.

I'm so sorry... I don't know how to use the fucking Internet. That's great, you solved my memos/source code problem. Now could you tell me which of your links verifies the central tabulator issue with a source other than Bev Harris?

Oh, and to prove I can remain mature in this debate: it's still a question whether you are fucked like a two-dollar whore, but you definitely sound like one.
posted by Krrrlson at 4:32 PM on August 31, 2004


The Diebold Variations. Y'all could do worse than spend some money pasting these up in your communities.
posted by stonerose at 4:37 PM on August 31, 2004


Thanks to Scalia's "judgement" after the 2000 election, no election will ever seem reliable again. Ever. Thats what you get for deciding a recount was unecessary.

Let that be Scalia's place in history. The guy who eroded faith in democratic elections. Cuz thats a genie you won't ever get back into the bottle, no matter which party prevails.
posted by Fupped Duck at 4:38 PM on August 31, 2004


"Congratulations on your victory!"
posted by homunculus at 4:52 PM on August 31, 2004


Yes, from the far more credible sources I've read, Diebold's voting machines appear to be insecure, error-prone crap, and yes, an allegation of this magnitude would be very significant if true, but I really would like to hear this information verified by someone who, at the very least, doesn't have the markings of a crackpot.

I admire your scepticism, Krrlson, but who do tou think Diebold will co-operate with on that? Why is th egovernment not doing independent tests, if - as you agree - objectively, they are flogging a oice if shit which will play a vital role in the 'democracy' of your country.

It's been quoted a bajillion times before, but Stalin said: "Those who cast the ballots decide nothing; those who count the ballots decide everything."

Who'd a thought that a decade and a half after the fall of the Soviet Union, someone in the government of the US is acting in some respects like a Stalinist.

The US.

How are the mighty fallen, and how sad that makes so many of your friends.
posted by dash_slot- at 5:29 PM on August 31, 2004


Well, Ishmael, LordWolf may not live in California, but in a state which contains rational election commissioners.

Here's the thing--it's certainly possible that none of the steps I suggested (or am taking myself) may effect meaningful change. However, doing nothing is certainly not going to effect meaningful change.

Krrlson, it is possible that Bev Harris is wrong. However, she has been shown to be correct fairly often so far by people with a) far more technical knowledge than hers, and b) no axe to grind.

It's certainly worth an examination.
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:08 PM on August 31, 2004


i took a job as a poll worker, how could i guarantee electronic votes weren't being electronically stolen?

The only way I could see is if you write in the canidates you want, and in a race where no one else is running you write in a MD5 hash for a phrase like "They are all crooked".

Extra bonus if the state you reside in is a few votes either way for the Republicrat or Demopublican and you wrote in "George W. Bush" or "John Kerry"....because your balot could deterime the election.

And you might get 15 mins of fame to mention how screwed the system is.
posted by rough ashlar at 6:31 PM on August 31, 2004


I'm so sorry... I don't know how to use the fucking Internet.

The Internet is not at fault, it is the inablilty to actually think is the issue.

But thank you for playing, you do get Rice O Roni - the San Fransico treat, because all contestants are awarded this fine product.
posted by rough ashlar at 6:36 PM on August 31, 2004


I admire your scepticism, Krrlson, but who do tou think Diebold will co-operate with on that? Why is th egovernment not doing independent tests, if - as you agree - objectively, they are flogging a oice if shit which will play a vital role in the 'democracy' of your country.

dash_slot, Sidhedevil:

Don't get me wrong, I am no fan of Diebold's creation and I fully share the concern. The issue cited certainly bears closer attention. What I object to is this collective fit at an as of yet unsubstantiated piece of information, as though the problem never existed until this alleged fact came to light. I object to the fact that most people here made this into an excuse to vent more Republican conspiracy paranoia, rather than engage in any semblance of rational, coherent discussion.

It may be just me, but I believe America is not so far gone as to allow a massive, organized vote tampering effort to slip by unnoticed. What I do see to be possible is a machine error, human error, or an isolated security breach that ends up affecting the entire election. Which is quite frightening, but does not warrant running out and screaming "the election is over!"

But thank you for playing, you do get Rice O Roni - the San Fransico treat, because all contestants are awarded this fine product.

Have my cat spayed or neutered!
posted by Krrrlson at 6:46 PM on August 31, 2004


"The election controversy has had a negative impact on Diebold's stock," said Kartik Mehta, an analyst with FTN Midwest Research. Mehta thinks that this valuation leaves little downside for the stock, even if there are more problems surrounding e-voting this November. "Risk is pretty much priced out of the stock at this point in time. The market has already discounted any type of election or voting controversy," he said.

Doesn't that mean that they virtually expect a cock-up?

Krrlson: there seems to be features in there that no simple, ethical accounting scheme would require. Why have a secret back door that the vendors haven't told the customer about?
posted by dash_slot- at 6:50 PM on August 31, 2004


there seems to be features in there that no simple, ethical accounting scheme would require. Why have a secret back door that the vendors haven't told the customer about?

One of the major problems, even if we rule out foul play, is that the system appears to be far from simple. Needlessly complicated, in fact. Now whether that is engineering incompetence or something else remains to be seen.
posted by Krrrlson at 8:39 PM on August 31, 2004


"As long as I count the votes, what are YOU going to do about it?"

-William "Boss" Tweed.



Or the movie version of the same quote...

"Remember the first rule of politics. The ballots don't make the results, the counters make the results. The counters. Keep counting."
posted by uncanny hengeman at 8:43 PM on August 31, 2004


maybe we should change the national anthem from "the star-spangled banner" to "comfortably numb"?

I understand that it would be depressing on a thematic level to do so, but dude. "Comfortably Numb" is a much, much, much, much better song.
posted by soyjoy at 8:54 PM on August 31, 2004


remember, remember, the fifth of november
posted by Satapher at 8:59 PM on August 31, 2004


They might be there for testing purposes.

Maybe.

Just saying'.
posted by weston at 9:23 PM on August 31, 2004


Long ago and far, far away, the US Democratic Party in certain American States was very practiced in voting fraud.

Long ago and far, far away.

Software is so much more efficient.

The Diebold/vote fraud story has been stuck like a rotting fish in the windows of Democracy for a few years now but most Americans seem to have clothespins over their noses.

What can be done ?

There is only one way - current US (and developed world) mainstream media serve, quite effectively, as plows that shove truth to the margins. Effective recourse, for those who care about this, lies in the creation of a media counterforce. Something as big as the concern of those who feel that the World itself - as we now know and live it - is at risk and quickly cascading to catastrophe.

Mainstream media injects it's soporifics in each second of nightly news. This is seldom challenged. That must stop.

Hence, a populist media which challenges the current 4th estate : what American Public radio and TV - once upon a time - aspired to become, what the BBC could be : media to serve the interest of the widest collective, We The People.

This can be done now with the help of the internet, and more crucially, with the energies of tens or hundreds of thousands who feel the our historical pivot now in their bellies.

Major media has vast financial resources, yes. But the hundreds of thousands - millions, tens of millions indeed - of disaffected the World round need to realize now the force of their awareness.

Organized concern, hundred-thousand or million fold, is power - to shape perceptions of reality.

The fact that you are reading this means that you are less caught in the collective trance. So, will you take your awareness beyond the realm of bland acquiescence ?

Here you are, in the moment. Which door do you choose ?
posted by troutfishing at 9:35 PM on August 31, 2004


.. By pressing down a special key, it plays a little melody ...
posted by crunchland at 10:01 PM on August 31, 2004


When Republican Chuck Hagel was first elected Senator from Nebraska back in 1996, it was curious that a virtual non-entity came out of utter and total obscurity to pummel a popular sitting governor by a whopping 56% to 42% !!! Curious still was that no Nebraska newspaper picked up on the fact that he had been president of a company responsible for counting 80% of the Nebraska vote (and still holds substantial interest therein).

Now, I dunno if any chicanery went on behind closed doors or not -- in point of fact, I like Hagel and give him high marks for personal integrity (unlike Nelson, who I consider a opportunistic resume-stuffer, "Democratic" in name only) -- nonetheless, it is dismaying that no one asked any questions.
posted by RavinDave at 11:11 PM on August 31, 2004


How are the mighty fallen, and how sad that makes so many of your friends.

True, but I perk up a bit, anyway, thinking about another revolution.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 2:53 AM on September 1, 2004


Conspiricy or cock-up? Hmm. I'm usually inclined to take the cock-up option in cases like this. However, there are some disturbing aspects which seriously need to be investigated, given what is at stake.

Let us assume for the moment that there is a conspiracy to ensure the Rupublican Party wins the election.

At what point in the counting could totals be changed? Would it be possible for someone to look at the results and change them before releasing the results? In which case, if Bush is leading, they don't need to do anything at all. No risk, no questions asked.

What if the race is so close that one or two States could swing it? What if those States were so tight that changing the results from just a few counties could swing the State? It wouldn't take all that much tampering, and the conspiritors might judge that the risk would be worth it. The chance of detection would be very low. Given the American public's attitude to the counting in Florida, they might plausibly believe that the American public wouldn't really care anyway, as long as the election is over and a President is elected. Move On, indeed.

How much money is raised in a Presidential election. Hundreds of millions of dollars. Possibly billions, all told. That is the value of the prize. Surely there are some people out there who judge that manipulation is a) feasible, and b) low enough risk, that it's a scary possibility.

The UN seriously needs to monitor these elections, and they need to pay special attention to auditing electronic votes.
posted by salmacis at 3:18 AM on September 1, 2004


Metafilter: changing the national anthem from "the star-spangled banner" to "comfortably numb"

Gets my vote!

The largest democracy in the world uses electronic voting with no problems. India has an effective and inexpensive system. But then, they don't depend on Access and Windows either. [retch]

Corporatism has rotted the flesh off the bones of democracy in America.
posted by nofundy at 5:01 AM on September 1, 2004


The Diebold/vote fraud story has been stuck like a rotting fish in the windows of Democracy for a few years now but most Americans seem to have clothespins over their noses.

What can be done ?


In the question you have the answer. The Americans who are aware and yet do nothing are not simply apathetic -- in my opinion, of course -- but lost for a solution. What can be done, indeed? Especially for those of us in solid red/blue states with antiquated but (more) secure voting systems, it's hard to imagine what can be done beyond mediabothering and encouraging people in Diebold-ized places to vote absentee (for what it's worth) and demand accountability for themselves, since its their votes which are in jeopardy.

As a Pennsylvanian, I hold no sway over the (apparently stupid/bought and paid for) unelected officials in California or Florida or wherever who have chosen these poorly constructed systems, put millions of dollars into purchasing them and are now determined to use them, worries and problems and gaping security holes be damned. Despite the effect that their choices may well have upon me and mine, my voice cannot (rather rightly) be heard quite so far from home. I'm not going to scream myself hoarse -- despite an inclination to do just that -- because it would have no effect.

If there was ever a case of "get your own house in order" this is it. If your vote is going to be "recorded" electronically, get mad and get active. The rest of us can't fix this for you.
posted by Dreama at 7:10 AM on September 1, 2004


I find if I wear my tinfoil hat while voting, it prevents my vote from being miscounted.
posted by darren at 8:07 AM on September 1, 2004


"The UN seriously needs to monitor these elections, and they need to pay special attention to auditing electronic votes."

The UN is far from trustworthy in this instance. The UN itself would clearly harbor bias in any US election as the member nations fought politically for the chance to alter the outcome of the election of one of the most powerful figures on earth.

Right now the UN and the US are each others check and balance. To hand over control of the US to the UN would be bad, bad bad.

The voting machine problem is a serious one, it is one we need to work on and make sure is public and loud. I don't personally subscribe to the common hand wringing that all of the US is stupid and asleep... but then my self image doesn't depend on the believe that I alone took the "red pill" the way so many peoples does.

In the end? Push comes to shove? The American people have the option of armed revolution - that was part of the reason for the 2nd amendment remember? So that the population would into be powerless in the face of oppression and tyranny. Its just too bad the left spend the last few decades trying to disarm the population.

What is killing me is the tinfoil hat side of this - that the purpose is a plot to keep Bush in power. I don't think it is - I just think it sucks. Even if it's a plot I think it would be internal to Diebold.

But this may be the best reason to hope Kerry wins. If he loses no one will actually accept the loss... and the resulting uncertainty may well give fringe anarchist and socialist groups - not to mention home grown terrorists - the boost they need.
posted by soulhuntre at 8:12 AM on September 1, 2004


... I'm the operator, with my Diebold vote tabulator ...
posted by greensweater at 8:12 AM on September 1, 2004


Verified Voting has tons of links on this. It really is a state issue, as each of us vote under different rules and laws. I'm glad we haven't switched yet in NYS, but we have 2 bills awaiting reconciliation and passage already requiring at least some voter-verified audit trails, and maybe even open source code (tho i bet that gets dropped).

on preview: soulhuntre, Diebold execs are on record as saying they're going to make sure at least one state goes Bush, no matter what. It's been posted here before. They also donate heavily to the Republicans. It's not internal to the company.
posted by amberglow at 8:20 AM on September 1, 2004


The UN is far from trustworthy in this instance. The UN itself would clearly harbor bias in any US election as the member nations fought politically for the chance to alter the outcome of the election of one of the most powerful figures on earth.

Sheer paranoid bullshit. And that's saying something in a thread full of paranoid bullshit.
posted by salmacis at 8:22 AM on September 1, 2004


In order to monitor a U.S. election, the U.N. would need to be invited to do so by the U.S. government. So, the point is moot. But it is fun to imagine the Bushies bringing in the U.N., just so they could raise hysteria by screaming about the U.N. taking over as a world government. BOO!!!

I would, however, be interested to see what the Carter Center had to say about Diebold. Unfortunately, that would probably be dismissed on the basis of Jimmy Carter's party affiliation.
posted by stonerose at 8:52 AM on September 1, 2004


International team to monitor presidential election.
Observers will be part of OSCE's human rights office

posted by Espoo2 at 9:33 AM on September 1, 2004


Vote absentee.
posted by Vidiot at 12:03 PM on September 1, 2004


yay, greensweater!
posted by crunchland at 12:06 PM on September 1, 2004


"They also donate heavily to the Republicans. It's not internal to the company."

That they have a bias for the Republicans doe not make them Republican controlled any more than ANSWERS bias towards Kerry means the are a Democratic shill.

But hey look, I'll be happy if no Diebold machine ever gets used again, I am not defending them... jsut discussing how much tinfoil is needed here.

As an aside, do people really think the UN is somehow the only human organization in history without bias and corruption?
posted by soulhuntre at 12:17 PM on September 1, 2004


Well ... maybe this means Texas will go to Kerry?
posted by Peter H at 6:41 PM on September 1, 2004


haha excellent kraftwerk references there you two!
posted by derbs at 3:30 AM on September 2, 2004


When Republican Chuck Hagel was first elected Senator from Nebraska back in 1996, it was curious that a virtual non-entity came out of utter and total obscurity to pummel a popular sitting governor by a whopping 56% to 42% !!! Curious still was that no Nebraska newspaper picked up on the fact that he had been president of a company responsible for counting 80% of the Nebraska vote (and still holds substantial interest therein).

Now, I dunno if any chicanery went on behind closed doors or not -- in point of fact, I like Hagel and give him high marks for personal integrity (unlike Nelson, who I consider a opportunistic resume-stuffer, "Democratic" in name only) -- nonetheless, it is dismaying that no one asked any questions.


That is truly amazing, RavinDave, if what you say is correct.

*Ahem* See my post above.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 4:36 AM on September 2, 2004


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