Lewis and Clark re-enactment gets real?
September 20, 2004 8:39 AM Subscribe
"We didn't bring our bows and arrows today," said Carter Camp, a Ponca from Oklahoma. "But if you continue, we will harass you. We will bring our bows and arrows."
That didn't work the first time around friend. Better step it up a few notches.
posted by a3matrix at 9:15 AM on September 20, 2004
That didn't work the first time around friend. Better step it up a few notches.
posted by a3matrix at 9:15 AM on September 20, 2004
Well, it might work now.
I can't believe they organized this whole thing without including, or at least considering the wishes of, the natives in the area.
That, to me, would seem a natural fit. Mended fences and all that.
posted by chicobangs at 9:31 AM on September 20, 2004
I can't believe they organized this whole thing without including, or at least considering the wishes of, the natives in the area.
That, to me, would seem a natural fit. Mended fences and all that.
posted by chicobangs at 9:31 AM on September 20, 2004
There names are spelt "Lois" and "Clark", and they only got married in one TV show. No wonder people aren't happy.
posted by seanyboy at 9:38 AM on September 20, 2004
posted by seanyboy at 9:38 AM on September 20, 2004
(Is that even legal in South Dakota, seanyboy?)
posted by chicobangs at 9:47 AM on September 20, 2004
posted by chicobangs at 9:47 AM on September 20, 2004
From my reading of the article ("Well before the journey started, we really took the time to reach out and learn about Native American culture. We're committed to the truthful telling of our nation's history, whether it's pretty or not.", "What the council supports is opportunities for all Native Americans to be heard...", etc.), it sounds like they were considering the native reaction, and hoping to use the anniversary to highlight the whole story, not just the European/white perspective.
A similar thing happened here in Nova Scotia this year with the 400th anniversary of the founding of Acadia, the first French settlement in North America. Organizers made sure to include native leaders in the ceremonies, and everything went well. But perhaps the wounds aren't as fresh here. You can't really blame the native peoples for being upset at any reminder of what happened.
But in spite my sympathy for them, I can't help wondering when it ends. Are the Angles still upset at the Normans for 1066?
posted by GhostintheMachine at 10:47 AM on September 20, 2004
A similar thing happened here in Nova Scotia this year with the 400th anniversary of the founding of Acadia, the first French settlement in North America. Organizers made sure to include native leaders in the ceremonies, and everything went well. But perhaps the wounds aren't as fresh here. You can't really blame the native peoples for being upset at any reminder of what happened.
But in spite my sympathy for them, I can't help wondering when it ends. Are the Angles still upset at the Normans for 1066?
posted by GhostintheMachine at 10:47 AM on September 20, 2004
It would be interesting to see some solid, resolute civil disobedience. Bows & arrows would certainly be creative.
The Sioux reservations are kind of messed up with regard to jurisdiction, I gather, but unless I'm mistaken there wouldn't be a heck of a lot that local cops could do about this as long as it was only property damage and no federal property was harmed. Though the picture-taking was a nice intimidation angle -- they learned that from the Secret Service and the FBI, I guess....
posted by lodurr at 11:05 AM on September 20, 2004
The Sioux reservations are kind of messed up with regard to jurisdiction, I gather, but unless I'm mistaken there wouldn't be a heck of a lot that local cops could do about this as long as it was only property damage and no federal property was harmed. Though the picture-taking was a nice intimidation angle -- they learned that from the Secret Service and the FBI, I guess....
posted by lodurr at 11:05 AM on September 20, 2004
What we need to do is get the Civil War reenacters to insist on changing who won, and then start a fight over it.
We need more thoughtful, reflective thinking about history and our place in it, and less whiny xenophobes who think that life today is the result of 200 year old historical expeditions.
Native American traditions are dying out. Traditions die out because people don't find them useful (Christianity). People don't find them useful because traditions are valued for themselves, rather than as traditions.
Wouldn't it be nice if the expedition were shown the glory of American Indian Cultures in spontaneous and extravagant demonstrations as they went their way.
Instead, losers act like losers. Glass half full much? Makes me almost resent my heritage...
posted by ewkpates at 11:16 AM on September 20, 2004
We need more thoughtful, reflective thinking about history and our place in it, and less whiny xenophobes who think that life today is the result of 200 year old historical expeditions.
Native American traditions are dying out. Traditions die out because people don't find them useful (Christianity). People don't find them useful because traditions are valued for themselves, rather than as traditions.
Wouldn't it be nice if the expedition were shown the glory of American Indian Cultures in spontaneous and extravagant demonstrations as they went their way.
Instead, losers act like losers. Glass half full much? Makes me almost resent my heritage...
posted by ewkpates at 11:16 AM on September 20, 2004
Are the Angles still upset at the Normans for 1066?
Battle of Hastings?
A (memorized) date, that for some reason, I've never forgotten. If the price of something I purchase is $10.66, I always take the time to point it out to the cashier... "Ahh yes, the Battle of Hastings." I rarely get more than a blank stare in return.
posted by Witty at 1:10 PM on September 20, 2004
Battle of Hastings?
A (memorized) date, that for some reason, I've never forgotten. If the price of something I purchase is $10.66, I always take the time to point it out to the cashier... "Ahh yes, the Battle of Hastings." I rarely get more than a blank stare in return.
posted by Witty at 1:10 PM on September 20, 2004
I think ewkpates must be drunk, cause he makes absolutely no comprehensible sense. And, less logical sense than normally he does.
posted by Eekacat at 9:37 PM on September 20, 2004
posted by Eekacat at 9:37 PM on September 20, 2004
But what about soup? And parrots? And if the giant cyborg panda bears that eat from the tree of life are infected with Helicobacter pylori, then who will operate the microwaves?
posted by iamck at 10:24 PM on September 20, 2004
posted by iamck at 10:24 PM on September 20, 2004
man, here I was, patting myself on the back for hitting the right note of outraged big picture pragmatism combined with just hint of injured intellectualism. Then I read all y'all's comments, and I figure I should just admit I posted to the wrong thread.
Native American Cultures have been poor adapters. They haven't successfully addressed the failures of their society within their own ranks. This link is a fine example of the same kind of denial and dishonesty that leads some people to think that the confederate flag is a symbol of anything except defeat.
Rather than greet this "expedition" with the anger at their loss, which although horrible is way over, it would have shown them to be a greater People had they organized events and celebrations of their history and traditions to coincide, turning the "expedition" into exactly what it was at the time - a journey of wonder and fascination at the incredible beauty and diversity of the American People and their Land.
posted by ewkpates at 6:42 AM on September 21, 2004
Native American Cultures have been poor adapters. They haven't successfully addressed the failures of their society within their own ranks. This link is a fine example of the same kind of denial and dishonesty that leads some people to think that the confederate flag is a symbol of anything except defeat.
Rather than greet this "expedition" with the anger at their loss, which although horrible is way over, it would have shown them to be a greater People had they organized events and celebrations of their history and traditions to coincide, turning the "expedition" into exactly what it was at the time - a journey of wonder and fascination at the incredible beauty and diversity of the American People and their Land.
posted by ewkpates at 6:42 AM on September 21, 2004
Native American Cultures have been poor adapters. ...
Well, to be "fair", the fact that the BIA worked very hard for a hundred years or more to "disincentivize" expressions of native american culture might have had something to do with that. Where BIA influence was kept to a minimum (e.g. among the Navaho and Senecas), there was lots of adaptation.
Not really into starting up teh whole "victim culture" thing, here, BTW. Just pointing out that any culture would be a "poor adapter" given the right counter-agents, such as schooling their young to loath their heritage...
posted by lodurr at 7:25 AM on September 21, 2004
Well, to be "fair", the fact that the BIA worked very hard for a hundred years or more to "disincentivize" expressions of native american culture might have had something to do with that. Where BIA influence was kept to a minimum (e.g. among the Navaho and Senecas), there was lots of adaptation.
Not really into starting up teh whole "victim culture" thing, here, BTW. Just pointing out that any culture would be a "poor adapter" given the right counter-agents, such as schooling their young to loath their heritage...
posted by lodurr at 7:25 AM on September 21, 2004
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Not to mention the prospect of a solid ass kicking.
posted by 2sheets at 9:09 AM on September 20, 2004