No Java for you, my Iranian friend.

December 10, 2004 8:55 AM

No Java for you, my Iranian friend.
posted by hoder (32 comments total)

This is standard stuff for US software if you check the license agreements. Chances are the license will not only say that it's prohibited in those countries but you also can't distribute it to citizens of those countries.

I work for a British university and we used to produce CDs containing the majority of the software used in our courses that could be distributed by such means for the benefit of those with limited internet access at home. We don't do it any more primarily because of the number of Libyan, Iranian and Iraqi mostly post graduate students we have. If we discriminate on race we get shafted. If we distribute to everyone we get shafted. We now distribute to nobody instead.
posted by vbfg at 9:20 AM on December 10, 2004

This really isn't all that extraordinary. I would imagine almost all licenses for US-produced software contain a clause stating the product can't be exported to embargoed countries.

Google: software license embargoed countries
posted by sanko at 9:21 AM on December 10, 2004

That doesn't mean it doesn't suck.
posted by chicobangs at 9:25 AM on December 10, 2004

It does indeed suck mightily, not the least reason for which is there is no agent of terror anywhere in the world that doesn't have access to commercially available software anyway. All this predates 9/11 by some distance btw.
posted by vbfg at 9:28 AM on December 10, 2004

It's funny how the first Anonymous comment blames Bush.
posted by brownpau at 9:31 AM on December 10, 2004

And it would be soooooo hard to find the Java JDK or runtime somewhere else on the internet, right? And I'm sure you couldn't run your network through a proxy server to mask the location, right?

Really, if anyone wants it, they can have it. Export control laws will never work on software that's freely available on the internet. It's just too big to police.
posted by SweetJesus at 10:00 AM on December 10, 2004

SweetJesus, a lay person doesn't know how to do that stuff. And many of those who do are going to respect the law. Even in Iran.

Sure, the program can be had. What sucks is, there's a law being enforced saying that Iranians can't use it, and it cuts them off from the rest of the world a little bit more.
posted by chicobangs at 10:06 AM on December 10, 2004

What sucks is, there's a law being enforced saying that Iranians can't use it, and it cuts them off from the rest of the world a little bit more.

I just wanted to read that again, because I couldn't agree with it more.

Software export restrictions on a java game? That just seems really dumb. What possible secrets could an Iranian glean from some java applet?
posted by mathowie at 10:48 AM on December 10, 2004

It's not so much about the software as it is about the encryption strength. The US restricts the export of software using encryption above a certain strength, the idea being that they don't want their own innovations being used against them.

The JVM contains encryption routines that are above that limit, so in theory, an Iranian nogoodnik could reverse-engineer the JVM and gain access to the encryption routines. Which he could then use to, I don't know, encrypt with 128-bit strength a bomb in a suitcase.

It's been this way for quite some time.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 10:59 AM on December 10, 2004

You can only write nuclear detonation software in Java. Even I know that.
posted by jon_kill at 11:19 AM on December 10, 2004

so in theory, an Iranian nogoodnik could reverse-engineer the JVM and gain access to the encryption routines

Or they could just go to java.sun.com, find the crypto APIs, and make calls into them.
posted by b1tr0t at 11:20 AM on December 10, 2004

SweetJesus, a lay person doesn't know how to do that stuff. And many of those who do are going to respect the law. Even in Iran.

My point wasn't that its easy to do, my point was is that if someone really wants Java for a particular purpose (nefarious or not) they can get it, and no amount of export laws will ever stop that.
posted by SweetJesus at 11:52 AM on December 10, 2004

Or they could just go to java.sun.com, find the crypto APIs, and make calls into them.

Bad guys never do things the easy way.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 11:53 AM on December 10, 2004

I'm confident banning Java from being used in embargoed country will do good ; unfortunately, criminals still dare use boxcutters successfully and we can't ban bleeding edge boxcutter technology.
posted by elpapacito at 12:01 PM on December 10, 2004

>It's been this way for quite some time.

It used to be that way here in the US, but under Clinton (thanks to pressure from ecommerce, activists, etc) the ridiculous bit-size based restrictions were removed.

These laws are antiquited and stupid. Its trivial for developers in any country to get encryption tools, libraries, etc.

So much for crossing the digitial divide and "the internet will solve everything" mentality. On top of it, while Iran was going through a popular democratic movement, Bush labeled them part of the "Axis of Evil" thus making sure we have enough official state enemies for Washington, the arms industry, etc while crushing whatever western hopes the people who were part of this movement had.

Here in the land of the free, I catn convince my computer to even copy a DVD I own without resorting to cracking its encryption which under the DMCA is an illegal act.

So much for the information age when business and government call the shots.
posted by skallas at 12:13 PM on December 10, 2004

b1tr0t -- Servers can be configured to reject certain requesting TLDs. I don't know if Sun actually does this, but I wouldn't be surprised. That said, I don't think it takes a hacker-extraordinaire to figure out how to download off of a site that doesn't block their domain.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 12:40 PM on December 10, 2004

ayatollah not to download that. but allah you guys never listen.
posted by quonsar at 12:45 PM on December 10, 2004

Well, if you're in an embargoed country and you install it anyway, what are they going to do, extradite you?
posted by angry modem at 12:54 PM on December 10, 2004

ayatollah not to download that. but allah you guys never listen.

unfunny and slightly offensive, nice one!
posted by blendor at 1:15 PM on December 10, 2004

ayatoldya not to downlaod that. but allahs, you guys never listen.

Is that betta, or wahhaborse?
posted by wah at 1:22 PM on December 10, 2004

>>What possible secrets could an Iranian glean from some java applet?<<

Matt - Of all people, you should know the awesome power of a JRun bomb.

Also: [ThisPolicyIsFuckedUp]
posted by McGuillicuddy at 2:01 PM on December 10, 2004

Can we akhbar puns from now on?
posted by AlexReynolds at 2:05 PM on December 10, 2004

This really doesn't have much to do with crypto at all. It's illegal for anyone in the US to supply any goods or services to citizens or government of Iran.

From the US OFAC [pdf] : "In general, a person may not export from the U.S. any goods, technology or services,
if that person knows or has reason to know such items are intended specifically for
supply, transshipment or reexportation to Iran."
posted by sanko at 2:23 PM on December 10, 2004

"It's illegal for anyone in the US to supply any goods or services to citizens or government of Iran. "

Duh, even Dick Cheney knows how to get around that one. Simply set up a corp in the Caymans and get back to work. It's proxy servers for oil services corps.

WASHINGTON - Vice President Dick Cheney, who has called Iran "the world's leading exporter of terror," pushed to lift U.S. trade sanctions against Tehran while chairman of Halliburton Co. in the 1990s. And his company's offshore subsidiaries also expanded business in Iran.

AP - Last modified October 9, 2004 - 12:36 am
posted by wah at 2:47 PM on December 10, 2004

Because of the crypto export restrictions, there was an international version of PGP (Pretty Good Privacy), where the source code was printed, the printed version legally exported from the US and then scanned and OCRed to recreate the source code. This is fortunately no longer necessary, as the restrictions on crypto software have been eased - because eCommerce needs strong encryption. The author of PGP was also the target of a criminal investigation because he released PGP freely on the Internet in 1991.
posted by ltl at 3:00 PM on December 10, 2004

maybe the iranian programmers should complain to their government that the situation sucks, and something should be done to fix it.

oh wait, they'd probably be FUCKING BEHEADED if they did that.

gee must really be rough to live in iran and not have access to java plugins. really rough indeed.

next...
posted by jimjam at 6:45 PM on December 10, 2004

I used to actually spell out in my disclaimer that people from embargoed countries weren't even supposed to visit my (then) US hosted website "so leave now, go!"

Yes it's a fucked up thang, but it's easy to beat and makes for interesting disclaimer texts. ;)
posted by dabitch at 7:12 PM on December 10, 2004

US laws regarding software are almost as fucked up as US laws regarding drugs.
posted by Veritron at 10:23 PM on December 10, 2004

If it could be said that Muslims are programmed to believe in a false god, could it also be said that American Christians are programmed to believe in the true one? You know, the god still deemed legal to worship, fully copyrighted and all that.

How is it legal then, to export brand America while it is not for brand Sun Microsystems?
posted by crasspastor at 12:38 AM on December 11, 2004

Windows XP isn't warez you would want to publicize running last time I checked. How is it possible that an Iranian is using software created in Redmond WA, USA to demonstrate that code written in San Jose CA, USA is not legal?

Surely the Iranian GNU-Linux lobby is much more powerful than anything Microsoft, a benficent pro-democracy, American company, could muster. Which leads me to ask: Why's this guy running ILLEGAL software? Ideally, one would think Iranians would be Linux Zealots -- as easy as it would be to create a sweet Gnome or KDE Allah centric desktop theme. Why then, the homogenic Microsoft flagship product?

Really, snarkiness aside, I wonder how widespread MS Windows use is in Iran? And why the double standard?
posted by crasspastor at 12:58 AM on December 11, 2004

Did I just read that someone in Iran might be beheaded for not obeying a US dictate? No, can't be. Moving on now.
posted by Dick Paris at 2:59 AM on December 11, 2004

Isn't it to do with encryption, as DrJohnEvans said?
posted by Infinite Jest at 3:00 AM on December 11, 2004