Kid Rock: Defender of America's Moral Values

January 4, 2005 11:02 AM

Kid Rock To Play Bush Inauguration ... The Bush Twins have invited Kid Rock to play their inauguration bash after their father is sworn in to a second term. Rock also played the Republican National Convention. This is a guy who stuck his head through an American flag at the Superbowl and has lyrics that say all women are whores and extol drug and alcohol abuse. (The link has actual lyrics from Rock, so if you are offended by cursing don't follow it.)
posted by nathanrudy (173 comments total)

Um, This inauguration celebration is offensive on so many levels, Kid Rock is like the least of our problems...
posted by lilboo at 11:05 AM on January 4, 2005

As opposed to the other music stars that played at the RNC and the DNC, who all preached nothing but gender equality and sobriety... /nothing to see here, move along..
posted by rulethirty at 11:06 AM on January 4, 2005

I don't know whether to be disappointed in Kid Rock for being a Bush supporter or relieved that on some level the Bush twins seem to be normal teenagers.
posted by jonmc at 11:06 AM on January 4, 2005

During the Reagan administration we from the Left were outraged that Wayne Newton was about the only act deemed worthy of playing in front of the Prez. So now we're outraged because of an act from the extreme. The Left needs to quit being outraged by crap like this and figure out how to convince the U.S. not to vote for ass clowns like W.

Whether the "family values" stand is actually hypocritical or not is kind of beside the point. It's idiotic, but worse yet, it works. We the (Neanderthal) people, voted the "values" back in.

I agree with lilboo, Kid Rock is the least of our problems.
posted by mcstayinskool at 11:11 AM on January 4, 2005

how much you wanna bet this wasn't their first choice?

Black Eyed Peas, Dave Matthews, Maroon 5, Foo Fighters, Eminem, are all Dems.

They basically had to pick between Skynyrd, Britney, and Kid Rock.
posted by slapshot57 at 11:12 AM on January 4, 2005

Kid Rock ceased to be of any interest years ago. Now he's a GOP bitch, good for him. Looks like its time to delete "Cowboy" from the iPod.
posted by fenriq at 11:18 AM on January 4, 2005

Nah, we from the Left are outraged at hypocrisy in all its forms, from whichever side it originates. It's just that the Republicans have gotten so darn good at it.
posted by fleener at 11:18 AM on January 4, 2005

I thought the twins were sent to Gitmo after their disaster at the RNC, e.g., "Sex in the City."
posted by bardic at 11:19 AM on January 4, 2005

The Nuge!
posted by Armitage Shanks at 11:19 AM on January 4, 2005

I'll never forget the interview Kid Rock did a few months ago shortly after the RNC (where he performed) about how musicians and actors (translated: Democratic musicians and actors) should just shut up and not make political statements and argued "who would you trust to make your decisions, Donald Rumsfeld or the Dixie Chicks?" Considering who ended up being right, you'd wonder if it was a rhetorical question.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 11:20 AM on January 4, 2005

Maybe they could get Springsteen to play "Born in the USA!"
posted by eyeballkid at 11:20 AM on January 4, 2005

I don't know that anyone is really 'outraged' by Kid Rock playing, mcstayinskool. I think if there is outrage from this patridiot guy, it's more at the hypocrisy, which is fine, I guess.

Frankly, I think it's pretty funny. Once Ozzy sucked up to Bush (which VH1 recently listed as the most un-metal moment of all-time), you just kind of have to start laughing at shit like this.
posted by Ufez Jones at 11:20 AM on January 4, 2005

Why did this post (this isn't directed at you, nathanrudy), make me want to just throw up my hands and scream filthy words?
posted by HuronBob at 11:21 AM on January 4, 2005

Normal teenagers? Dude, no one likes Kid Rock anymore. He was fun in a pre-9/11 "Isn't the other half cute?" kind of way. I thought he was the attempt of mixing rural whites with hip hop and failed. Why don't the Bush twins be really hip and get the Scissor Sisters or some infinitely cooler band.

But this looks like it was orchestrated by some HR person in the GOP machine who remembered Kid Rock being cool from her very lonely college years at [insert top American university].

And as slapshot57 said, no self-respecting cutting edge artist is going to play for the GOP. Well, unless it was done with a heavy dose of irony.
posted by geoff. at 11:21 AM on January 4, 2005

Kid Rock? Feh... the Republicans can have him.
posted by turaho at 11:22 AM on January 4, 2005

and... Ufez.. the use of "ozzy" "Bush" and "suck" in the same sentence brought a smile to my face.
posted by HuronBob at 11:23 AM on January 4, 2005

Looks like its time to delete "Cowboy" from the iPod.

You'd delete a perfectly good song because of who the singer voted for? Lame.
posted by jonmc at 11:23 AM on January 4, 2005

The Left needs to quit being outraged by crap like this and figure out how to convince the U.S. not to vote for ass clowns like W.

You actually have it precisely backwards, mcstayinschool. "The left" gets its ass kicked on the outrage front quite regularly by the right, and the left needs to learn to get better at it. This Kid Rock thing, while stupid and pointless, is exactly the kind of thing Republicans would effectively hammer Dems with, so much so that if things were reversed the Dems would actually cave and un-invite Mr. (dumb as a) Rock, and end up with a black eye in the matter.

But anyway, the idiot pretender musician Kid Rock seems a perfect complement to the idiot pretender President. Never mind that that lyrics to Kid Rock's songs seem to put him completely opposed to modern Republicans (or decent society in general). It was all fake, any way.
posted by teece at 11:24 AM on January 4, 2005

He was fun in a pre-9/11 "Isn't the other half cute?"

Wow...

no self-respecting cutting edge artist is going to play for the GOP

Good to see that all of the "self-respecting cutting edge" are in lockstep with you.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 11:25 AM on January 4, 2005

You'd delete a perfectly good song because of who the singer voted for? Lame.

You'd call "Cowboy" a perfectly good song? Lame.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 11:26 AM on January 4, 2005

If Bill Hicks was still alive he would have moved on from making jokes about New Kids On The Block to making jokes about Kid Rock, rather than Justin Timberlake or whoever.

I just wish I didn't know who Kid Rock was. It's nothing to do with which political side he supports, but the fact that he's just a talentless hack.
posted by tapeguy at 11:28 AM on January 4, 2005

Didn't Michael Jackson perform for Reagan?
posted by Hands of Manos at 11:28 AM on January 4, 2005

why is it any kind of surprise that someone who

- views women as objects
- values image over everything else
- calls himself a cowboy
- plays off like he 'worked his way to the top' when in fact he came into this world with silver spoon and just can't quite get Daddy off his back to 'do something with his life.'

is connected with the GOP? This isn't someone who gives a damn for the little guy. Kid Rock could care less about the people who come to his concerts. The only global interest he's got his mind on is that fat line backstage sitting between two globes of silicon. That and making sure "Freedom's on the March" to make the world safer for his pathetic lyrics.

Nevertheless, I hope he doesn't back out of the Inauguration, so we can hear the Red States grumble about yet another great representation of their 'family values.'
posted by jackspace at 11:30 AM on January 4, 2005

I don't know that anyone is really 'outraged' by Kid Rock playing

I'm always outraged by Kid Rock playing, anywhere.
posted by mkultra at 11:31 AM on January 4, 2005

"The left" gets its ass kicked on the outrage front quite regularly by the right, and the left needs to learn to get better at it. This Kid Rock thing, while stupid and pointless, is exactly the kind of thing Republicans would effectively hammer Dems with, so much so that if things were reversed the Dems would actually cave and un-invite Mr. (dumb as a) Rock, and end up with a black eye in the matter.

Actually, both the right and the left need to STFU about shit like this and worry about actual, y'know, issues.

But this looks like it was orchestrated by some HR person in the GOP machine who remembered Kid Rock being cool from her very lonely college years at [insert top American university].

That's exactly the kind of too-cool-for-school elitism that's alienated me (and I imagine countless others) from both the Left and the music scene. Keep it up, guys.

On preview: You'd call "Cowboy" a perfectly good song? Lame.

It's nothing earthshaking, but it's a decent party tune. Besides, it was fenriq who said it was on his iPod to begin with, so he must have enjoyed it. The politics of the singer don't make much difference in how the song sounds.
posted by jonmc at 11:31 AM on January 4, 2005

You mean to tell me that there are neither Bush fans nor Kid Rock fans in this thread? How can that be?
posted by Witty at 11:34 AM on January 4, 2005

If you don't want Kid Rock playing the inauguration you may want to actually win an election so that won't happen. You see, when you WIN an election you can actually choose whoever the hell you want no matter how craptacular they might be.
posted by TetrisKid at 11:37 AM on January 4, 2005

Metafilter polarized over Kid Rock.

Funniest. Thread. Ever.
posted by unsupervised at 11:38 AM on January 4, 2005

posted by jackspace at 11:38 AM on January 4, 2005

why is it any kind of surprise that someone who
- views women as objects
- values image over everything else
- calls himself a cowboy
- plays off like he 'worked his way to the top' when in fact he came into this world with silver spoon and just can't quite get Daddy off his back to 'do something with his life' is connected with the GOP?

Haha... and the Dems are full of 'rags to riches' stories and card-carrying members of the "American Dream"?

You live in a cloud.
posted by Witty at 11:39 AM on January 4, 2005

No, but the difference between (say) John Kerry and his cousin and Skull-and-Bones mate George W. Bush is that Kerry doesn't pretend to be blue-collar, whereas Bush does.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:41 AM on January 4, 2005

On the Left, we are who we are. You don't need to be a hypocrite to be a 'Lefty.' Of course, there are many hypocrites within the Democratic Party, but it's just not requisite to be a Dem.

The Right, on the other hand, seems to have this tendency to make big claims, and set certain expectations, where even they, the Enlightened Few, falter.


posted by jackspace at 11:46 AM on January 4, 2005

Having said all of this, WTF? So the Bush twins have bad taste in music as well as incipient alcohol problems and hair that is wayyyyy too dry. At least they're not stalkers or hard-core drug addicts like their Floridian cousins.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:49 AM on January 4, 2005

Sidhedevil,

No, but the difference between (say) John Kerry and his cousin and Skull-and-Bones mate George W. Bush is that Kerry doesn't pretend to be blue-collar, whereas Bush does.

Are you kidding? Riding into the tonight show on a harley dressed up as a denim superhero? The gas guzzling truck/suv comment nonsense? The horrible failed sports references?

The kerry campaign was almost completely defined by pretending to be blue collar, it was one of his major faults throughout the midwest.

And Geoff,

no self-respecting cutting edge artist is going to play for the GOP. Well, unless it was done with a heavy dose of irony.

You can keep your cutting edge, I'll keep my Johnny Ramone.
posted by rulethirty at 11:52 AM on January 4, 2005

Lets see...The Poster Boy for drunk trailer trash plays big blow-out for the First Party Girls. And this is news...how?
posted by Thorzdad at 11:52 AM on January 4, 2005

Good to see that all of the "self-respecting cutting edge" are in lockstep with you.

Really, are there any cutting edge music icons that play for the GOP? This is not being said in a "we
're cooler than you are" way, just seems they always get the bottom shelf, b-list washouts. Just curious if you could provide any examples contrary to the assertion that was made by Geoff(albeit it was made sans actual data, nonetheless...)
posted by rocket_skates at 11:52 AM on January 4, 2005

Actually, both the right and the left need to STFU about shit like this and worry about actual, y'know, issues.

That be a ticket to electoral loss, jonmc. The American people, in general, don't give a shit about issues. They listen to shit like this.

The Republican's ability to appeal to emotions, rather than talk about issues, is actually how they got where they are today. Like I said, reverse the party, and this is the kind of thing Republicans would use to assure their base that Democrats were all godless criminals, snorting coke of the tits of a hooker, working to destroy America.

It is doesn't matter that this is empty, vapid shit. It's what people listen to.
posted by teece at 11:52 AM on January 4, 2005

rulethirty, here in Massachusetts, white-collar people ride Harleys (Jay Leno is a big Harley guy, for example) and follow sports.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:55 AM on January 4, 2005

(as well as blue-collar people, I mean)
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:55 AM on January 4, 2005

*note johnny ramone is dead and doesn't count anymore
posted by rocket_skates at 11:55 AM on January 4, 2005

I don't get the point of this post. Am I supposed to be shocked that:

1. "Kid Rock" is a Republican, despite the fact that even I already knew it

or

2. Billy Bragg and Zack de la Rocha aren't playing the inauguration?
posted by Mayor Curley at 11:55 AM on January 4, 2005

I bet the music at an Al Sharpton Inauguration would be incredible...
posted by unsupervised at 11:55 AM on January 4, 2005

I don't get the point of this post. Am I supposed to be shocked that:

I think it may have something to do with the fact that Kid Rock's "artistic" body of "work" creates a world that is 100% antithetical to the one Republicans claim to support, Mayor Curley. But you knew that.
posted by teece at 11:59 AM on January 4, 2005

Maybe Kid Rock will spill some phat street kred to the RNC. "What's uppya my dubya?"
posted by Hands of Manos at 12:00 PM on January 4, 2005

So the Bush twins have bad taste in music as well as incipient alcohol problems and hair that is wayyyyy too dry.

The Poster Boy for drunk trailer trash plays big blow-out for the First Party Girls

keep making my point for me, folks. the general public's image (esp. those of the general public under 40) of "liberals," is not that of of coke snorting libertines, but of neurotic PC tightasses, and comments like that back that image up nicely.

That be a ticket to electoral loss, jonmc. The American people, in general, don't give a shit about issues. They listen to shit like this.

How, we've been playing outraged and oppended for the past 4 years, and that led to an electoral loss, too.

I bet the music at an Al Sharpton Inauguration would be incredible...

Cos colored folk sho' is musical, right?
posted by jonmc at 12:00 PM on January 4, 2005

jonmc, I was mostly joking. It is a decent song and its fun to listen to every now and again. But yeah, I do take note of the artist singing the song.

I can't stand Elton John as a human being (except for that totally bitchin' public smackdown on Madonna recently!) and refuse to listen to his music, outside of elevators and malls where its nigh inescapable.

Kid Rock's a wanker who needs to bath more often (the greasy hair thing is incredibly trashy looking). The GOP can have him and Zell.
posted by fenriq at 12:02 PM on January 4, 2005

I bet the music at an Al Sharpton Inauguration would be incredible...

The cavernous depths of hell smoothly coated with ice would provide excellent acoustics.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 12:04 PM on January 4, 2005

Hey guys, I hate Bush and Kid Rock and all, but President Clinton's 1993 inauguration featured Fleetwood Mac. So let's not be tossing "lame" about too haphazardly, okay?
posted by Optimus Chyme at 12:05 PM on January 4, 2005

Cos colored folk sho' is musical, right?
As we discuss an artist who spans two genres of music, both of which were created by the "colored folk"
posted by rocket_skates at 12:05 PM on January 4, 2005

Are you kidding? Riding into the tonight show on a harley dressed up as a denim superhero?

It's mainly Wall Street types and wealthy executives who ride Harleys 'round where I live...
posted by crank at 12:05 PM on January 4, 2005

this entire thread is making my eyes roll back in my head so hard it is physically causing me agony.
posted by glenwood at 12:06 PM on January 4, 2005

Cos colored folk sho' is musical, right?

My first troll! Thanks jonmc!
posted by unsupervised at 12:09 PM on January 4, 2005

It's mainly Wall Street types and wealthy executives who ride Harleys 'round where I live...

Who the hell else could afford a $20,000 bike that breaks down every week?
posted by teece at 12:13 PM on January 4, 2005

organizers say that Gloria Estefan and country singer John Michael Montgomery will join Grammer, the former star of television's "Frasier," at the military tribute at the MCI Center on Jan. 18.
The Bush twins, Jenna and Barbara, will be hosts of the youth concert, where the teenage singer JoJo will appear along with Kid Rock.


give me fleetwood mac anyday
posted by rocket_skates at 12:14 PM on January 4, 2005

Are you joking, jonmc? The Bush twins clearly have bad taste in music if they want Kid Rock to play at their inauguration party. The Bush twins clearly have incipient alcohol problems, as shown by their repeated forays into underage drinking despite the scrutiny of the world's press. And the Bush twins' hair is, indeed, way too dry. It looks like straw.

Of course my pointing these facts out is ruining the Left's political capital, just like Rush Limbaugh's endless taunting of Chelsea Clinton ruined the Right's political capital.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:15 PM on January 4, 2005

actually it's got nothing to do with their taste in music. these are the only people who will play for them.
posted by rocket_skates at 12:16 PM on January 4, 2005

They totally deserve each other. Why not celebrate red-state victory with the most stereotypical red-stater of all?

Maybe they'll get "Dog" the Bounty Hunter to emcee. That would be frickin' awesome.
posted by fungible at 12:16 PM on January 4, 2005

Maybe they'll get "Dog" the Bounty Hunter to emcee.

way frickin' awesome
posted by rocket_skates at 12:17 PM on January 4, 2005

I'm sure this will get shot back in my face, but hasn't Fleetwood Mac stood the test of time unlike Kid Rock's manufactured musical career?
posted by Hands of Manos at 12:18 PM on January 4, 2005

Not nearly as outrageous as when he played with these guys.
posted by muckster at 12:20 PM on January 4, 2005

The GOP long ago showed that they're *not* about values in nominating Arnold Schwarzenegger for California governor. Socially, he's against most everything they claim to stand for. It's economically that he's an ally, and this was one of the things that transformed my doubts about the modern GOP into full-fledged abandonment. Their social claims are, more or less, simply cover for their more important economic agenda.
posted by namespan at 12:21 PM on January 4, 2005

Personally I think this is harmony with the entire theme of this presidency...
posted by mrs.pants at 12:25 PM on January 4, 2005

Hands of Manos, yes, they have and they are a legitimate band. Kid Rock's a sideshow.
posted by fenriq at 12:26 PM on January 4, 2005

You elitist democrats think you're too-cool-for-school, but let me tell you...

...you're not.

/zoolander

To sum up. Kid Rock is a mysogynist neanderthal appreciated by other neanderthals and until the democrats realise that this is their constituency we're all going to hell.

The secret is to bang the rocks together, guys.
posted by Sparx at 12:26 PM on January 4, 2005

Why not celebrate red-state victory with the most stereotypical red-stater of all?

As a point of pride I am compelled to point out that the land of my formative years, Michigan, is a blue state.
posted by crank at 12:26 PM on January 4, 2005

The Bush twins clearly have bad taste in music if they want Kid Rock to play at their inauguration party. The Bush twins clearly have incipient alcohol problems, as shown by their repeated forays into underage drinking despite the scrutiny of the world's press.

I have a couple Kid Rock songs in my playlist. He's harmless fun. The Bush Twins are college kids, of course they're gonna make "forays into underage drinking." The constant scrutiny of the press they get would make any 19-year old look like an incipient alcoholic. I have no love for W. or his administration , but let's not be petty and bitchy.

Unsupervised, no troll at all. Why would you assume Sharpton's music choices would be good? Because he's black. A quick look at the "urban music" charts of late would quickly dispel you of any delusion that black people innately have better musical taste.

I'm sure this will get shot back in my face, but hasn't Fleetwood Mac stood the test of time unlike Kid Rock's manufactured musical career?

Yes, but as good as Rumours was, their best work was done with a lineup that few people today remember. And as for "manufactured," so what? The Monkees, most of Motown, and all of 60's bubblegum qualifies as "manufactured." Has zero to do with the quality of the records.
posted by jonmc at 12:26 PM on January 4, 2005

this entire thread is making my eyes roll back in my head so hard it is physically causing me agony.

No kidding. Boy howdy, this thread has it all. We can insult each other over politics AND our tastes in music.

There are a lot worse acts out there than Kid Rock, who I actually like. So he's a Republican, big f'n deal.

I hate to admit it, but I'd probably be one too if I was making shitloads of money.
posted by bawanaal at 12:29 PM on January 4, 2005

I can't believe jonmc is defending Kid Rock. Choose your battles wisely is all I can say.
posted by stinkycheese at 12:35 PM on January 4, 2005

A quick look at the "urban music" charts of late would quickly dispel you of any delusion that black people innately have better musical taste.

ummm, hey, just so you know white people account for more sales of "urban" music than blacks.

And as for "manufactured," so what? The Monkees, most of Motown, and all of 60's bubblegum qualifies as "manufactured."

our point exactly
posted by rocket_skates at 12:38 PM on January 4, 2005

I'd also point out that Fleetwood Mac's music - at least "Don't Stop" - was full of optimism for a better tomorrow and hope that the world would be better than today or yesterday, while Kid Rock's music is full of celebration of ignorance and mediocrity (I live a very, very red state and see it every day). I have no problem with Republicans as such; Republicans have some good ideas for running the country. But they also happen to be overrun with a culture that is NOT interested in leaving their children with a better world than they inherited.

Every time I hear Kid Rock, I think of every dystopian vision of the future where ignorant, half-savage "citizens" go to extraordinarily violent public shows to get off. Compared to almost any other "red state musician" like Johnny Cash, hell, Kid Rock is nothing. Anyway, I have less of a problem with Kid Rock being a Republican than I do with Republicans liking Kid Rock.
posted by socratic at 12:39 PM on January 4, 2005 [1 favorite]

And as for "manufactured," so what? The Monkees, most of Motown, and all of 60's bubblegum qualifies as "manufactured." Has zero to do with the quality of the records.

Good point, I'd not thought of that. Of course I don't listen to any of those bands either...I only listen to quality melodies that pour from Clay Aiken, 50 Cents and some other talent from American Idolatry.

I can't believe jonmc is defending Kid Rock.

Perhaps I'm dense, how is he defending Kid Rock? I thought he was just being practical. Come on, admit it, we all have a little kid rock in our ipods...I mean, I DON'T, but you know...well...everyone else does.
posted by Hands of Manos at 12:40 PM on January 4, 2005

And your problem with this is....?
posted by asianmack at 12:41 PM on January 4, 2005

It is doesn't matter that this is empty, vapid shit. It's what people listen to.
~teece

And yet, here you are... more than once even.
posted by Witty at 12:42 PM on January 4, 2005

while Kid Rock's music is full of celebration of ignorance and mediocrity

And the world, by definition is filled with mediocre people. Better to embrace and celebrate that than to bow down to anyone's version of an ideal.
posted by jonmc at 12:42 PM on January 4, 2005

The bush twins are 23 years old and college graduates. Not that this has anything to do with all of yous guys pointless arguing...
posted by Jeremy at 12:42 PM on January 4, 2005

The bush twins are 23 years old and college graduates.

Point still applies, unless MeFi is full of people who were 23-year old teetotalers who never made drunken asses of themselves in public, which I doubt.
posted by jonmc at 12:45 PM on January 4, 2005

the presence of Kid Rock is perfectly appropriate for the occasion, seriously. I'd be surprised if actual decent, talented artists like, as others have said, Springsteen, had accepted to play for Bush. Kid Rock's perfect.

I was disappointed in BB King's sad show playing with that old political bigoted street thug (of the dead only the truth), Lee Atwater. that was disappointing.

Good to see that all of the "self-respecting cutting edge" are in lockstep with you.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood

well, fans of the almost-militarized GOP can hardly be sarcastic about other people's "lockstep". but I find it quite satisfying that, when it comes to right-wing artists (writers, musicians, whatever) the Right can usually rely on the Kid Rocks and Tom Clancys of the world, since sheer math tells you that a good 90% (I'm being polite) of true creative artists are politically progressive.
ah, all those Republicans who, if they have any taste in music or literature, have to buy books written / music played / movies directed by those dam lib'ruls.
posted by matteo at 12:46 PM on January 4, 2005

Man, any post involving anything remotely related to Bush here is like blood in the water. The users here just froth at the mouth to start doing the same stupid shit over and over.

Why do you bother?
posted by xmutex at 12:47 PM on January 4, 2005

xmutex - you forgot posts about christianity too
posted by Hands of Manos at 12:48 PM on January 4, 2005

I've never made a drunken ass of myself while I was being supervised by Secret Service agents, no. If you can't confine your drinking to, say, parties with your friends even though you know there are boatloads of paparazzi out there to take your photo and splash it all over the world's press, then I say you have an incipient alcohol problem.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:48 PM on January 4, 2005

since sheer math tells you that a good 90% (I'm being polite) of true creative artists are politically progressive.

Math? Show your work, please.

Besides 90% of shitty artists lean to the left, too. What's your point?
posted by jonmc at 12:48 PM on January 4, 2005

GONG!
posted by sklero at 12:50 PM on January 4, 2005

A quick look at the "urban music" charts of late would quickly dispel you of any delusion that black people innately have better musical taste.

jonmc, I'm a huge Johnny Cash / Loretta Lynn fan, but really, give it up. black people, 10% of the population, are behind a disproportionately large percentage of the good stuff coming out of the US music industry.

_______

I've never made a drunken ass of myself while I was being supervised by Secret Service agents, no.

holy crap! are you Amy Carter?
posted by matteo at 12:50 PM on January 4, 2005

decent party tune....harmless fun

I call that a defence, HoM. Obviously anyone can like any kind of music they care to. I'm just shocked that jonmc is rising to the side of Mr. Bawitaba, given his otherwise more-or-less spotless tastes (as in, shared with my own). No biggie.
posted by stinkycheese at 12:50 PM on January 4, 2005

90% of shitty artists lean to the left, too. What's your point?

that you can count on the fingers of one hand the number of GOOD musicians who voted for Bush. you're free to prove me wrong. what's your GOP equivalent to the REM/Springsteen/Pearl Jam etc '04 concerts for Kerry? country music? NASCAR jingles?
US Democrats are politically swimming in deep shit, but at least they're listening to good music in the process
posted by matteo at 12:53 PM on January 4, 2005

Yah, half the world is below average and all that. But the point is that Kid Rock celebrates it. I was under the impression that the American Dream was that we leave our kids with the opportunity to have a better future. Prolonging - even uplifting - a culture of violence, alcohol abuse, drugs, and rejection of education is un-American, and (it seems) un-Republican.
posted by socratic at 12:54 PM on January 4, 2005

(but I concede that the best American movie of 2004 was directed by a Republican, if Clint Eastwood is still one, which I don't really know)
posted by matteo at 12:56 PM on January 4, 2005

keep making my point for me, folks. the general public's image (esp. those of the general public under 40) of "liberals," is not that of of coke snorting libertines, but of neurotic PC tightasses, and comments like that back that image up nicely.

And thanks for beating that horse to death again, jonmc. Blah blah blah lookit what the liberals are doing to make themselves look bad. Bullshit. If anything, you've made the point that the FPP does: liberals will be forever burdened by criticism of their opinions, while conservatives will forever profit from the martyrdom of theirs.

It doesn't matter that the GOP is a bunch of hypocrites for even suggesting that a piece of trash like Kid Rock represents their alleged "moral values" platform because the VERY NATURE of American conservatism for our generation is that they're for moral values. So it was, and so it shall be.

When Barbara Streisand sneezes, conservatives will call it a political statement and tell her that she needs to shut up because she's some stupid Hollywood cunt who doesn't know what she's talking about, then switching right over to interviewing Ron Silver about his recovery from having George Bush's cock surgically implanted in his mouth. Meanwhile, if Bush went on television tomorrow night, strangled a puppy with his bare hands, and visibly obtained orgasm as a result of doing so, conservatives would ignore this discrepancy of Bush's "values" and when liberals point this out, conservatives bitch about how "those PC liberals are out to get us." And yet, while this process has maintained its steady pace for about a decade, you still act as if this A. is a new thing, B. will upset the nature of American politics in some way.

Seriously, people whine about this concept and make their tired, stupid "keep it up, libs, and you'll never win! LOL!" in like every third political thread or something in some constant attempt to guarantee that no matter what anyone thinks politically, they're a stupid loser for doing it. Please, just stop it. Liberals point out hypocrisy and conservatives claim cultural martyrdom. Whining about it is like complaining that cats chase mice.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 12:59 PM on January 4, 2005

I call that a defence, HoM. Obviously anyone can like any kind of music they care to. I'm just shocked that jonmc is rising to the side of Mr. Bawitaba, given his otherwise more-or-less spotless tastes (as in, shared with my own). No biggie.

don't get me wrong, I think Kid Rock sucks with a capital "F" (minus the "s" and then you add the "f" to the front of "ucks" and you drop the last "s" and...oh, you get it, right?)

anyway...so yeah, I don't like him and I think it's hilarious that Kid Suck is playing for the RNC...but I mean, I'm sure if Kerry would have won and would have gotten, say, Ludacris to gangsta rap about booty shakin' ho'z perform lyrical poems about social welfare of black women everywhere at his inauguration then Rush, Boortz, Anne Coulter and other loudmouth right winged bozo's would have been all over what that he was promoting bad values (and when I mean bad, I mean like a "a lime to a lemon, a lemon to a lime" bad!)
posted by Hands of Manos at 12:59 PM on January 4, 2005

jonmc, I'm a huge Johnny Cash / Loretta Lynn fan, but really, give it up. black people, 10% of the population, are behind a disproportionately large percentage of the good stuff coming out of the US music industry.

Disproportionate portion, I'll buy. But there's been plenty of bad music unleashed by black people, too. Jodeci? New Edition? Shannon?

I'm not accusing anybody of anything, but after awhile it all starts to sound like a new version of "They're just such good entertainers."

Also, matteo, you know well that for all my frustration with the American left, I'm no Republican. I'm just sick of facile sloganeering. And FWIW, Loretta Lynn did campaign for Bush, Sr.

I just dislike making political agreement a prerequisite for enjoying music.
posted by jonmc at 1:05 PM on January 4, 2005

Haha... and the Dems are full of 'rags to riches' stories and card-carrying members of the "American Dream"?

Witty -- I give you ... BILL CLINTON! How about Congressman Matsui who just passed away?
posted by nathanrudy at 1:05 PM on January 4, 2005

Wow, this thread is interesting in a "holy crap those two cars are going to crash while I watch and it is all happening so slowly and there's blood everywhere but I can't look away" sort of way.
posted by tommasz at 1:06 PM on January 4, 2005

jonmc,

well, I can only speak for myself, but I'm 23 and not drunk right now. As for them I figure they should be given some privacy, we all do it blah blah blah.

But seriously, kid rock is the equivolent of getting Ryan Adams. Sure, he's got a few decent songs you know some of the words to, but no one is gonna brag in mixed company about scoring them. And everyone there is gonna be heading downtown by 1100.

And I've hated Rock since 1999, long before I knew his leanings. He was a woodstock 99 and let me tell you, they clean that shit up BIG TIME in the studio. He's got less musical talent then ashlee simpson
posted by slapshot57 at 1:07 PM on January 4, 2005

Would the Republicans be upset if Ludacris played the Kerry inauguration? Yes.

On this, we can agree!

I think, all in all, anybody that actually gets elected POTUS - on either, hee hee, side - is going to be so MOR that it's inevitable that their inauguration performers would be "safe". I'm thinking U2, Bob Dylan, maybe James Brown (he could play "Living in America" and wear that I Want You hat).

We won't be seeing Peaches or Merzbow on the White House lawn, that's for sure. Not even a reformed Throbbing Gristle, I say! One can fantasize however...

Finally, Ted Nugent must feel slighted.
posted by stinkycheese at 1:12 PM on January 4, 2005

Perhaps to Kid Rock, a paycheck is a paycheck.
Perhaps not.
posted by me3dia at 1:13 PM on January 4, 2005

Kid Rock is so 1998
posted by cinderful at 1:14 PM on January 4, 2005

If Peaches came out at the RNC singing "AAAXXX" I would forever vote Republican.
posted by Hands of Manos at 1:17 PM on January 4, 2005

This is gonna make the best Girls Gone Wild® tape evah!
posted by junkbox at 1:25 PM on January 4, 2005

But there's been plenty of bad music unleashed by black people, too. Jodeci? New Edition? Shannon?

maybe it's white suburban kids who buy it, who knows
posted by matteo at 1:27 PM on January 4, 2005

maybe it's white suburban kids who buy it, who knows

nope, sorry to shatter a cherished cultural myth, but dusky-skinned folk often are as clueless as the rest of us.
posted by jonmc at 1:30 PM on January 4, 2005

MetaFilter: Going on television tomorrow night, strangling a puppy with its bare hands, and visibly obtaining orgasm as a result of doing so.
posted by First Post at 1:33 PM on January 4, 2005

Maybe they could get Springsteen to play "Born in the USA!"

That's not exactly a feel-good patriotic sort of song.
posted by caddis at 1:35 PM on January 4, 2005

Thank you, Professor Obvious.
posted by jonmc at 1:38 PM on January 4, 2005

XQUZYPHYR - I just wanted you to know I've quoted the fourth paragraph of your 3:59 post about eleven times now. If you'd like me to send you a check for royalties or something, just let me know where. :)
posted by socratic at 1:40 PM on January 4, 2005

liberals will be forever burdened by criticism of their opinions, while conservatives will forever profit from the martyrdom of theirs.

damn...that's good.

m3dia, i suspect this is also just a paycheck for mr. ritchie, but i also think his values do align more with the values of republicans than with liberals/progressives. in fact, there are a lot of parallels between gangsta/hardcore/bling rappers and republicans. when eazy e attended one of those $200-a-plate dinners with some republican bigwig several years, people freaked out b/c they thought he was there to cause harm. wrong. he was there because "game recognize game."

anyway, nothing bad will happen to the g.o.p. b/c of this. we have reached a point in america where they can pretty much do anything they want, and none of them -- especially no one from their ruling clique -- will suffer any real negative consequences. they may as well have the geto boys perform "damn it feels good to be a gangsta" at the inauguration (why does a pres. who wins re-election get another inauguration anyway? seems like a waste of time and money to me, whether it's clinton, bush or whoever.)
posted by lord_wolf at 1:43 PM on January 4, 2005

That's not exactly a feel-good patriotic sort of song.

No, It's not. Which is why it's so ironic that Reagan clung to it during one of his campaigns. No one bothered to read the lyrics. Hence my comment.
posted by eyeballkid at 1:43 PM on January 4, 2005

He's got less musical talent then ashlee simpson
posted by slapshot57 at 1:07 PM PST on January 4

Now THAT was funny! Thanks slapshot57!
posted by fenriq at 2:09 PM on January 4, 2005

It is doesn't matter that this is empty, vapid shit. It's what people listen to.

therein lies the modern american malady
posted by garfield at 2:15 PM on January 4, 2005

LordWolf -- I guess you're right: the GOP could probably get caught on videotape smoking crack with a snitch of a prostitute, have a young intern give them a rim-job on altoids behind the desk of the oval office, and be a former klansman who uses the n-word in a nationally televised interview, and never have to worry about getting called out on it.

All the while, dems will have to worry about getting run out of town on a rail for getting gropes of their own, or for making less clearly offensive comments.

These double standards really suck.
posted by esquire at 2:28 PM on January 4, 2005

garfield... don't you find it slightly amusing that MetaFilter is "talking" about it, while pretending that the issue isn't important to us... important only to red-stated middle-American white trash?

"WE SHOULD BE WORRYING ABOUT REAL ISSUES, BUT THIS IS ALL AMERICANS CARE ABOUT... SO SAD", shouts the Mefi majority. Yet this stuff keeps showing up here on the front page. It happened every day during the Presidential race. The Mefi left is just in denial about who they really are.
posted by Witty at 2:34 PM on January 4, 2005

Reading this post has entertained me almost as much as the whole "choke on a bag of cocks" fiasco. Good show, folks.
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 2:38 PM on January 4, 2005

interesting, esquire.

i seem to recall a huge shitstorm descending upon both the crack-smoking mayor and the oral sex receiving president. what's your definition of "getting called on it"?

as for the former klansman, in the article you linked, he acknowledges his mistakes and apologizes for them, which is quite different from the "do as we say, not as we do" philosophy of the current republican party.

packwood...well, fuck 'im. all i can do is point out that even former supporters turned against him and their voices were heard. when former supporters speak out against bush, the right-wing attack machine kicks into high gear.

finally, if you think lott's removal/demotion had anything to do with what he said, you need to study politics -- especially those as practiced by "the architect" karl rove -- a little more.
posted by lord_wolf at 2:44 PM on January 4, 2005

The GOP long ago showed that they're *not* about values in nominating Arnold Schwarzenegger for California governor. Socially, he's against most everything they claim to stand for.

In Utah, when Democrats show up on the ticket, you know that most of the time, they're going to be pro-life. Not that it helps them a whole lot, because 75% of the population simply assumes that Democrat == baby killer and doesn't bother to investigate positions on particular issues. But running an open pro-choice candidate in Utah would probably be political suicide. Are the democrats hypocrites for running pro-life candidates, even though they're typically associated with other values?

This isn't to say I'm not disturbed by the Governator myself -- I am -- and further not disturbed by a certain amount of moral duplicity I see in the GOP. But the idea that a socially liberal governor would be elected in California doesn't seem too surprising to me.
posted by weston at 2:45 PM on January 4, 2005

Reagan used "Little Pink Houses" by John Mellencamp.

I believe he was later diagnosed with a malfunctioning irony gene.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 2:46 PM on January 4, 2005

If Peaches came out at the RNC singing "AAAXXX" I would forever vote Republican.

At the very least, I'd tune in to watch...
posted by stifford at 2:49 PM on January 4, 2005

Lordwolf: The crack smoker is back on the City Council, the rim-job-getter is heading up presidential aid commissions, and nobody called on the Klansman to resign.

He used the N-word, dude. Not back in the 50s or 60s, when we know he was using the N-word all the time. He used the N-word just three years ago. That's freaking crazy. He apologized? Lott apologized, too. Apologized and resigned his leadership position. Sorry shouldn't walk the dog where the N-word is involved.

If you think that the GOP is getting away with things that the dems cannot, you must be smoking something as strong as that setting-up b*tch on videotape.
posted by esquire at 2:52 PM on January 4, 2005

I have a couple Kid Rock songs in my playlist. He's harmless fun.

"Kid Rock?" He's almost a parody of himself. Even David Lee Roth had enough sense not to give himself such a ridiculous stage name. If you're into it, okie dokie, no skin off my nose. Ya gotta admit, though, it's pretty much teenage testosterone with a healthy dose of frat boy idiocy, and that got old for me a long time ago. Old Van Halen brings back some memories, but some of them weren't so great ...

I remember when Kid Rock first came out, and I thought, hey, he's sorta catchy, then almost immediately I started laughing. Can't help it. Just can't take the dude seriously at all. I'm not entirely sure even he buys his own act.
posted by krinklyfig at 2:53 PM on January 4, 2005

Krinklyfig: yeah, I disdain artists who descend into self-parody, too.
posted by esquire at 3:02 PM on January 4, 2005

I just hope Senior Rock performs Balls in your mouth. Now that would be metal!

/makes secret devil sign
posted by haqspan at 3:09 PM on January 4, 2005

Oh, Judas Priest? Well, there was a time I liked them, when I was around 12. I listened to "Screaming for Vengeance" over and over for a while ... They were pretty silly when it came down to it, but I can see the appeal even now. That might not have been true if I didn't listen to them years ago. And, ya know, Halford was pretty ballsy to come out of the closet in heavy metal culture. It was sort of like when Jello Biafra did. They both got plenty of crap for it, so I can respect that. Biafra's way more interesting, musically and otherwise, though ...
posted by krinklyfig at 3:13 PM on January 4, 2005

Oh, wait, you talking about Black Sabbath? No apologies for that. They were fucking great when I was 12, and they still are. Make fun of 'em, makes no difference. I worked in music for a while, and most of the musicians I knew (not heavy metal) still liked them, too. Guess it depends on taste, but they certainly played like they meant it.
posted by krinklyfig at 3:17 PM on January 4, 2005

Reading this post has entertained me almost as much as the whole "choke on a bag of cocks" fiasco.

That's bucket of cocks, not bag. Sheesh!
posted by jammer at 3:18 PM on January 4, 2005

The crack smoker is back on the City Council, the rim-job-getter is heading up presidential aid commissions, and nobody called on the Klansman to resign.

wha-?

1) the crack smoker: he got called on it, and was -- and is -- a target for ridicule even from black people for his dumbass actions. that said, it was perfectly legal for berry to run for the office; it was perfectly stupid of the dc voters to elect him. there's little The Left can do about that; in fact, most people on the The Left probably wish he was far, far less visible.

2) the rim job getter: didn't bush tap him for that position?

3) the ex-klansmen: you know, some black people get all bent out of shape whenever anyone with a complexion lighter than don cheadle's uses the n-word, regardless of how they use it or whether they used it at all (see the whole "niggardly" thing from a while back). not me: i don't think that the wrath of god has to fall upon every single non black person who ever utters the word. it's all about context. some older black people like my mom will tell you that, yes, there are white niggers. i think it's a fucked up thing to say and think, but i don't think it's a capital offense.

if i'm supposed to think robert e. lee was a great person even though he fought for the side that wanted to keep my ancestors in chains -- and i do think he is a great person -- i'm also capable of accepting the apologies of people like byrd. now, if he'd said something like "america needs to do something about its nigger problem" (something that can be read between the lines of many fark and free republic posts), then i'd feel differently.

i, like many others, was shocked at how strongly the republican leadership clique came down on lott for his utterances. he apologized...they should have let it go. the democrats who spoke on the issue all said the things you'd expect them to say: it was strange to hear so many high-ranking republicans saying the apology wasn't enough. the fact that they dogged him about it makes me think they were looking for an excuse to demote him and replace hiim with frist. again, look a little closer at how bush/rove/cheney plays the game.

if you think the republicans aren't getting away with a "do as i say, not as i do" mode of behavior, you're hittin' the same pipe i am, brother.
posted by lord_wolf at 3:24 PM on January 4, 2005

Ah, thanks, jammer. My err.
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 3:34 PM on January 4, 2005

krinklyfig posted: Halford was pretty ballsy to come out of the closet in heavy metal culture. It was sort of like when Jello Biafra did.

apparently not true.

also, see shannon wheeler's (too much coffee man) recent blog entry: "Next thing I know I'm driving Jello and his girlfriend around looking for a place to eat."

not that it matters.

[end tangent]
posted by retronic at 3:36 PM on January 4, 2005

kid rock represents the very zenith of the conservative symphonic aesthetic.
posted by quonsar at 3:42 PM on January 4, 2005

Republicans and the coke culture have had a torrid affair forever........and it shouldn't be a surprise that no matter how hypocritical and belligerent their actions are they continue to have very strong public support. They do so because of the ill-fated conviction by the right and the left that contradiction is clarity. Don’t u see how well this works….Social Engineering is bearing fruit….and we are the lucky recipients………
posted by koli at 3:45 PM on January 4, 2005

What's wrong with THE pimp of the nation playing at the president's inauguration? I think this extremely apt.
posted by effwerd at 3:49 PM on January 4, 2005

Feel the effects of my shotgun blast
Mothers crying from theses shotgun blasts
Feel the effects of my shotgun blast
People dying from theses shotgun blasts

These lyrics seem quite appropriate for the GOP convention. I'd hope that Rock will serenade Laura with one of his other perrenial favorites, Balls in your Mouth or Abortion
posted by dfx at 3:57 PM on January 4, 2005

Let me sum up:

Kid Rock sucks.
The Bush Twins are skanks.

Fleetwood Mac had some good songs.

At least Clinton played sax and liked Thelonious Monk.

Are there any cutting edge musicians who have played for either party?
posted by papakwanz at 4:11 PM on January 4, 2005

Better to embrace and celebrate that than to bow down to anyone's version of an ideal.

what does that even mean?
posted by mcsweetie at 4:16 PM on January 4, 2005

That we should simply realize that we are all a bunch of mediocre, befuddled, clueless fucks and that's all we'll ever be so we might as well dig ourselves and enjoy it rather than try to become what some self appointed pontificator decides we should be.

Clear enough, or do I need to get out the hand puppets?
posted by jonmc at 4:18 PM on January 4, 2005

Bring out the befuddled hand puppets, please.
posted by muckster at 4:29 PM on January 4, 2005

jonmc....read a lot of Strauss? if it weren't for discussions like these there wouldn't be any progress and we'd still be slaves...we are entering a new dark age ....and although we might be autistic.....we still have our thoughts
posted by koli at 4:31 PM on January 4, 2005

read a lot of who?
posted by jonmc at 4:39 PM on January 4, 2005

jonmc seems to be preaching the gospel of self-abnegation these days.

I would personally empty out my bank account if I thought it would be enough $$ to get Kid Rock to play "Abortion" at the inaug.
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:39 PM on January 4, 2005

Leo Strauss
posted by koli at 4:42 PM on January 4, 2005

jonmc: no we are not a bunch of befuddled fucks. We don't want the world to be a bunch of befuddled fucks, and the US is ruled (note: didn't use the word "governed") by a befuddled fuck whose clueless daughters get to label our national aesthetic with Kid Rock, who is, in a word, worthless commercial crap. Less than crap. in fact. At least Ozzy is funny.

Fact is that 49% of the US didn't want this befuddled fuck to represent our national performing arts. The inauguration used present people like Arethra Franklin, real musical talents - not MTV stereotypes. But most folks will only watch this crap in five second vid-bites on network news shows anyway.

The artists promoted during a big production like the inauguration are utilized to use "art" to help define direction of a political regime. Kid Rock fulfills the Leo Strauss idea of presenting only obscurant material that an elite can understand.
posted by zaelic at 4:45 PM on January 4, 2005

jonmc: no we are not a bunch of befuddled fucks. We don't want the world to be a bunch of befuddled fucks, and the US is ruled (note: didn't use the word "governed") by a befuddled fuck whose clueless daughters get to label our national aesthetic with Kid Rock, who is, in a word, worthless commercial crap. Less than crap. in fact. At least Ozzy is funny.

Actually, you're last sentence tells me all I need to know about you. So what if he's commercial crap? It's fun commercial crap. You act like that's a bad thing. And, if you think you are not clueless, then you are the most clueless of all.


Kid Rock fulfills the Leo Strauss idea of presenting only obscurant material that an elite can understand.

What? He sings songs about smoking dope and pussy, for crying out loud. I disagree with his politics, sure, but I disagree with Ted Nugent's as well, that dosen't mean you can have my copy of Cat Scratch Fever. Sounds more like you have a need to bundle up everything you don't like into one big enchilada of evil.
posted by jonmc at 4:56 PM on January 4, 2005

Does Kid Rock have the same strain of hepatitis that Tommy Lee does?
posted by psmealey at 5:03 PM on January 4, 2005

ignorance is a bliss......what's obscurant is having Kid Rock play at the inaugaration of the born again Christian president
posted by koli at 5:04 PM on January 4, 2005

That we should simply realize that we are all a bunch of mediocre, befuddled, clueless fucks and that's all we'll ever be so we might as well dig ourselves and enjoy it rather than try to become what some self appointed pontificator decides we should be.

so you pontificate that we shouldn't listen to pontificators?

Clear enough, or do I need to get out the hand puppets?

you liberal elitists are all alike.
posted by mcsweetie at 5:14 PM on January 4, 2005

you see the irony of the left is that it constantly criticizes elitism in various aspects of society, yet itself exercises the most evil of all elitisms: Intellectual Elitism.
posted by koli at 5:19 PM on January 4, 2005

so you pontificate that we shouldn't listen to pontificators?

exactly, I once called myself the cockeyed absurdist for a reason. We're more or less dommed to repeat the sames cycles of stupid shit for eternity, so my advice is crack a beer, put some AC/DC on the box and lay back and watch the fireworks.

Intellectual Elitism.

Whenever I hear self appointed smart people pontificating about how the world should be run I always think back to the episode where Lisa Simpson, Comic Book Guy and Professor Frink became rulers of Springfield and the community nearly crumbled. A high IQ is no exemption from the foibles that afflict us mere mortals.
posted by jonmc at 5:22 PM on January 4, 2005

i take it back......you are perfect product of the Straussian school of thought......you see i never said how the world should be run. I'm simply pointing out what i think is wrong. Human development has only been possible due to dialogue....but i guess you are right....we should all do some rails, chug some beer...and smack some ho'.....after all we are only human
posted by koli at 5:30 PM on January 4, 2005

you see the irony of the left is that it constantly criticizes elitism in various aspects of society, yet itself exercises the most evil of all elitisms: Intellectual Elitism.

I know! I wish The Left would realize that stupid people are above criticism.
posted by mcsweetie at 5:30 PM on January 4, 2005

y'know what your problem is mcsweetie? You care more about showing off how witty you are and getting the last word in, than in actually listening and maybe learning something, even if it's only what another person's perspective is.
posted by jonmc at 5:34 PM on January 4, 2005

I know.
posted by mcsweetie at 5:38 PM on January 4, 2005

Good.
posted by jonmc at 5:43 PM on January 4, 2005

So there.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:04 PM on January 4, 2005

sidhedevil, if you start an Inaugural Pro-"Abortion" movement, I will donate the proceeds from the alarmingly heavy change bowl in my hallway, plus whatever I find in the chair cushions. I will not cash in my 401(k), though I'm tempted.

lord_wolf, re Lott, we wuz played. Rove, et al., were thrilled to have an excuse to boot Lott (who, loathsome as he is, had a rudimentary spine) from the head of the Senate and install a pliable functionary. I admire your ability and willingness to sort out inflammatory words in terms of meaning and context.

jonmc, what do you believe in? I've lurked here for a couple of years and I've never seen you stake out a positive position on anything. You enthustiastically attack arguments supporting the leftish position but when you're accused of being non-leftish, in any flavor, you vehemently deny it. Which is fine, if that's what you want. It's possible to make a life and a career out of reflexive contrarionism (e.g., Christopher Hitchens). I ask only because it makes it easier for me to figure out the context of your statements.
posted by vetiver at 6:49 PM on January 4, 2005

Who knows from politics, but rest assured jonmc believes in rock and roll.
posted by caddis at 7:22 PM on January 4, 2005

You enthustiastically attack arguments supporting the leftish position

Actually, if you carefully look at my comments, you'll see that I do not do that. I'll attack stupid statements (especially those which claim that anyone who takes the right-wing position must be stupid/evil/crazy) but generally speaking I fall to the moderate left (and I've stated plenty of positive positions*). I'm simply anti-stupidity wherever it comes from. And if I call a leftist on a stupid statement his natural response is to assume I'm a right winger. As I said once, my sad situation is that I'm a liberal who can't stand most liberals. And I have major league doubts about the way many leftists communicate their ideas, and the attitudes they reveal when they do. And maybe I go off half-cocked and post emotional responses to things, but that can still be valid, if only to let people know where frustration comes from.

I also don't hold out much hope that either the right or the left is ever gonna snap out of the knee-jerk partisan pissing contest that have enmired us in our current state. So that's where the contrarianism comes from. That and a desire to force people to at least conider the possiblity that they aren't always right.

I also have a sad faith that human nature is fundamentally corrupt, (mine included) and that political stance dosen't amke anyone an exception to that rule.

*pro-choice, pro-gay marraige, pro-war on terrorism but anti-war in Iraq, pro-death penalty, pro law enforcement, pro-welfare reform, pro-cororate regulation, pro-union. pro-stem cell, anti-fundy control of gov't but pro-respect of religious belief. Anything else you'll have to review my comment history.

caddis: damn straight baby. politics will always let you down, but the music (and beer) has always been there for me.
posted by jonmc at 7:24 PM on January 4, 2005

or to put it another way, me and amberglow, at a meetup, once discussed the usual shitstorms at MeFi, at this was just post the Brazillian wax incident. Amber said that people have their hot buttons. He said for him it's anti-gay stuff and for many MeFemmes, it's misogyny. For me it's sanctimoniousness.
posted by jonmc at 7:28 PM on January 4, 2005

the most evil of all elitisms: Intellectual Elitism.


OMFG! INTELLECTUAL ELITISM!!! Call the counter-enlightenment sqaud!


On preview: Looks like the thread is over now jonmc has yet again hauled himself up onto the crucifix with his pocketful of throwing rocks.
posted by Tuatara at 7:33 PM on January 4, 2005

tuatara, actually nothing of the sort. vetiver asked me a question and I answered. If you've got something constructive to say, say it. otherwise take your personal attacks elsewhere.
posted by jonmc at 7:37 PM on January 4, 2005

the Bush twins seem to be normal teenagers

I realize that this thread is already in cinders, but I thought I'd point out that the Bush girls aren't teenagers anymore, having both graduated from college recently (even the dumber one). Isn't Kid Rock supposed to be for 14 year old boys?
posted by intermod at 7:42 PM on January 4, 2005

Maybe they could get Springsteen to play "Born in the USA!"
Actually, I heard him play that live for the first time sinse the Reagan fiasco down here in Atlanta on his last tour. Something about in protest of Bushie =)
posted by jmd82 at 12:07 AM on January 5, 2005

Jello Biafra isn't gay? Well, that's news to me. It's definitely a pernicious rumor, although I admit I never noticed that on the Alternative Tentacles site before. I should call some punk friends of mine from my hometown. Many of them openly agonized over Biafra's supposed sexuality, as they had a hard time accepting it. I think they were more afraid of the gay aesthetic taking over punk than they were of "catching gay." In the end, they came to accept it and still listen to DK. Now I'm wondering if I should tell them ...

/tangent
posted by krinklyfig at 1:51 AM on January 5, 2005

the most evil of all elitisms: Intellectual Elitism.

I thought race-based elitism was the most evil of all elitisms, but WTF do I know?
posted by psmealey at 6:13 AM on January 5, 2005

the Bush twins seem to be normal teenagers

I realize that this thread is already in cinders, but I thought I'd point out that the Bush girls aren't teenagers anymore, having both graduated from college recently (even the dumber one). Isn't Kid Rock supposed to be for 14 year old boys?

Hate when I get to the bottom of a thread only to find that finally somebody said it.

Isn't Kid Rock kind of a weird choice for an inauguration ceremony? You can think he's a genuis or whatever, but it's not exactly classy. I'm not offended or anything, just think the choice is odd. Probably the only Rock musician they could get.
posted by xammerboy at 6:30 AM on January 5, 2005

"Disproportionate portion, I'll buy. But there's been plenty of bad music unleashed by black people, too. Jodeci? New Edition? Shannon?"


Whoa, whoa, whoa. What did New Edition and Shannon do? Let the Music Play is one of my favorite songs. And lately I've been getting complaints from my neighbors about playing New Edition too loud.

I understand the point that there is alot of bad "black" music but not NE, and Shannon. You could have said: most hip hop from the south, Al B Sure, or Brandy.
posted by LouieLoco at 7:27 AM on January 5, 2005

And the world, by definition is filled with mediocre people. Better to embrace and celebrate that than to bow down to anyone's version of an ideal.

This was way upthread, but I have to say that that post very succinctly captures the horribly skewed view of art/the world that jonmc seems to espouse in his posts.

Because if you aspire to greatness, it means you're implicitly putting down all of the "common people" (like jonmc) you fucking elitist! You see, lefties? THIS is why you lose! This is why, I say!
posted by ludwig_van at 1:44 PM on January 5, 2005

jonmc: New Edition is/was fucking awesome and you are probably no fun at all.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 1:47 PM on January 5, 2005

no, optimus, they just plain suck and ludwig van's worldview is just as skewed as mine, only he dosen't realize it.

My veiw of art is based on championing that which I like, as is yours. What makes you so much nobler?
posted by jonmc at 7:51 PM on January 5, 2005

jonmc has always been sanctimoniously no fun.
posted by crasspastor at 8:26 PM on January 5, 2005

I'm sorry but like a moth to the flame...

ludwig van's worldview is just as skewed as mine, only he dosen't realize it.

What makes you so much nobler?

(jonmc thread comments: 21)


That's right. For only you see the world as it really is. It can't be easy being the consummate everyman gifted with the seering insight of jesus. But you should come down from the cross now before your dinner gets cold.
posted by Tuatara at 8:43 PM on January 5, 2005

... the Bush twins seem to be normal teenagers.

Except, they're, like, 24 years old, dude. Kid Rock is the Jan Michael Vincent of Rock 'n' Roll....
posted by lodurr at 3:06 AM on January 6, 2005

jonmc: I always think back to the episode where Lisa Simpson, Comic Book Guy and Professor Frink became rulers of Springfield and the community nearly crumbled.

Because, of course, a Simpsons episode is a really great argument on behalf of the dictatorship of the mediocritariate....
posted by lodurr at 3:39 AM on January 6, 2005

That's right. For only you see the world as it really is

Wait, in the statement you quoted I said that my worldview was as skewed as ludwig van,'s. Then you accuse me of claiming that only I see the world as it really is.

Please try and make sense if you're gonna start a pissing contest.
posted by jonmc at 9:20 AM on January 6, 2005

Whether the "family values" stand is actually hypocritical or not is kind of beside the point. It's idiotic, but worse yet, it works. We the (Neanderthal) people, voted the "values" back in.

And you got Kid Rock? Great bang for your vote.
posted by Bag Man at 7:50 PM on January 9, 2005

AFA Petition to keep Kid Rock from performing

The family values Right is in fact a bit riled about Kid Rock's role in the inaugural ceremonies.
posted by weston at 9:48 PM on January 10, 2005

The family values Right is in fact a bit riled about Kid Rock's role in the inaugural ceremonies.

Didn't the fundies see the Bush Daughters at the convention? Like I said, I hope they like Kid Rock and Bush because that's want they wanted, right?
posted by Bag Man at 12:25 PM on January 11, 2005