After School
January 25, 2005 7:43 PM Subscribe
After School A documentary is being made about the rise of sexual molestation in schools by teachers. As someone who is trained as a teacher, I find this extremely shocking and disturbing.
Is this actually a trend? Or is it like shark attacks and after-school satanic cults?
posted by josh at 7:49 PM on January 25, 2005
posted by josh at 7:49 PM on January 25, 2005
Don't stand so close to me.
posted by RockCorpse at 8:02 PM on January 25, 2005
posted by RockCorpse at 8:02 PM on January 25, 2005
What josh said -- is there any evidence of a "rise" other than their bare assertion of one? And would it be a rise in reporting (good, conceptually) or a rise in incidence (bad)?
"Data" is not the plural of "anecdote".
posted by rkent at 8:06 PM on January 25, 2005
"Data" is not the plural of "anecdote".
posted by rkent at 8:06 PM on January 25, 2005
I don't think this is a trend, the media just likes to hop on bandwagons and keep the public morally outraged. Things that normally would appear in the local news now gets broadcast on the national news. So whereas before you'd get a few cases a decade in your community you hear about a half dozen or more a year (of course they're not in your community)
posted by substrate at 8:11 PM on January 25, 2005
posted by substrate at 8:11 PM on January 25, 2005
dude's wife preferred a 14 year old. of course he thinks it's a "plague".
posted by quonsar at 8:15 PM on January 25, 2005
posted by quonsar at 8:15 PM on January 25, 2005
These sex-crazed teachers will destroy us all! *jumps out window*
posted by Saucy Intruder at 8:21 PM on January 25, 2005
posted by Saucy Intruder at 8:21 PM on January 25, 2005
Where were all these teachers when I was in school?
posted by loquacious at 8:23 PM on January 25, 2005
posted by loquacious at 8:23 PM on January 25, 2005
I don't want to make light of this, but if I had been given the opportunity to have sex with someone as hot as Debbie Lafave when I was 14 years old, I would have leapt at the chance.
It is a simple truism that to sustain an erection the male has to be willing. These boys may have been legally and emotionally too young to fully understand their actions, but I'll bet that they appreciated their actions. Should it have happened? No. Is it likely that the boys suffered any trauma or scarring that was NOT the result of societal disapproval? Likewise, no.
Hypocrite that I am, I would have castrated any teacher who sexually took advantage of my girls. However, as unpopular as this may be to point out, boys are different than girls. First, boys don't suffer any opprobriation for banging their teacher, especially if she is hot. In fact, they are liable to receive congratulation. This means no pangs of guilt or regret later. I'm not commenting on the correctness of the situation, only on the reality. Second, a boy can't get pregnant. Yes, he can get STD's, and that is a definite fear, but one which a condom largely eliminates. Lastly, for some boys -- I'm talking about the geeky ones -- this would be a huge boost to their self-confidence.
I'm betting that the major regret that these boys will experience is that they didn't shut up about it until they were legal adults. Now they will feel guilt for having harmed their teachers (logically or illogically), and be forced to endure counseling for something that, confusingly, they will still be masturbating about for decades.
Poor kids.
posted by Chasuk at 8:28 PM on January 25, 2005
It is a simple truism that to sustain an erection the male has to be willing. These boys may have been legally and emotionally too young to fully understand their actions, but I'll bet that they appreciated their actions. Should it have happened? No. Is it likely that the boys suffered any trauma or scarring that was NOT the result of societal disapproval? Likewise, no.
Hypocrite that I am, I would have castrated any teacher who sexually took advantage of my girls. However, as unpopular as this may be to point out, boys are different than girls. First, boys don't suffer any opprobriation for banging their teacher, especially if she is hot. In fact, they are liable to receive congratulation. This means no pangs of guilt or regret later. I'm not commenting on the correctness of the situation, only on the reality. Second, a boy can't get pregnant. Yes, he can get STD's, and that is a definite fear, but one which a condom largely eliminates. Lastly, for some boys -- I'm talking about the geeky ones -- this would be a huge boost to their self-confidence.
I'm betting that the major regret that these boys will experience is that they didn't shut up about it until they were legal adults. Now they will feel guilt for having harmed their teachers (logically or illogically), and be forced to endure counseling for something that, confusingly, they will still be masturbating about for decades.
Poor kids.
posted by Chasuk at 8:28 PM on January 25, 2005
It is a simple truism that to sustain an erection the male has to be willing.
Speaking as a guy, um, what? There's a big difference between physical arousal and rational consent. Just because my brainstem's hot to trot, that doesn't mean I think it's a good idea.
That probably goes double for 14-year-old boys. Puberty is all about the inappropriate erections. When a 14-year-old gets wood, it doesn't mean he's considered all the consequences and made an informed decision to have sex. It means he's full of testosterone and his body is reacting accordingly.
posted by nebulawindphone at 9:10 PM on January 25, 2005
Speaking as a guy, um, what? There's a big difference between physical arousal and rational consent. Just because my brainstem's hot to trot, that doesn't mean I think it's a good idea.
That probably goes double for 14-year-old boys. Puberty is all about the inappropriate erections. When a 14-year-old gets wood, it doesn't mean he's considered all the consequences and made an informed decision to have sex. It means he's full of testosterone and his body is reacting accordingly.
posted by nebulawindphone at 9:10 PM on January 25, 2005
I have a suspicion that the media has created incentive to kiss-and-tell that didn't exist before. The media and the civil courts, that is.
As a man who used to be a 14 year old boy having sex with adults, I can't understand what the problem is. It never happened unless I wanted it, and I never regretted it afterwards (except sometimes when there wasn't more to be had).
What makes me ill is thinking of how different it would have been had I had shrinks coming at me demanding that I submit to "treatment" for my "trauma", and playing a game where I had to appear a victim. That would have been very messed up!
Of course I realize that a teacher can abuse authority in a sexual way. But I am sick of that always being the assumption.
posted by Goofyy at 10:06 PM on January 25, 2005
As a man who used to be a 14 year old boy having sex with adults, I can't understand what the problem is. It never happened unless I wanted it, and I never regretted it afterwards (except sometimes when there wasn't more to be had).
What makes me ill is thinking of how different it would have been had I had shrinks coming at me demanding that I submit to "treatment" for my "trauma", and playing a game where I had to appear a victim. That would have been very messed up!
Of course I realize that a teacher can abuse authority in a sexual way. But I am sick of that always being the assumption.
posted by Goofyy at 10:06 PM on January 25, 2005
Lastly, for some boys -- I'm talking about the geeky ones -- this would be a huge boost to their self-confidence.
No, it wouldn't. Not for all of them, anyway. Hell, I was modestly freaked out the first time I had sex at the age of 21. Can only imagine what it would have been like had someone forced themselves on me at the age of fourteen.
posted by kindall at 10:29 PM on January 25, 2005
No, it wouldn't. Not for all of them, anyway. Hell, I was modestly freaked out the first time I had sex at the age of 21. Can only imagine what it would have been like had someone forced themselves on me at the age of fourteen.
posted by kindall at 10:29 PM on January 25, 2005
Um, nebulawindphone, that's why my next sentence began thusly:
These boys may have been legally and emotionally too young to fully understand their actions,
Sex isn't icky. It isn't icky for a 14-year old boy to lust after his teacher. Nor is it surprising that a 14-year old boy would gratify such lust if given the opportunity. It is considered abnormal for a 23-year old woman to reciprocate, but there are certainly worse fates for a 14-year old boy than enjoying sex with his hot to trot teacher.
I'm not saying that the alarm is disingenuous -- though in some cases I believe that it is -- but merely that I don't share it. I'm 44 years old, and I've woken up with an erection every morning for approximately 36 years. I could have rationally consented to a grown woman playing with my penis by the time I was 12. Before that? I don't know. Maybe. By the time I was 16, I was buying condoms and having sex with those who were legally adults, and I've never lost sleep over it. Sex is fantastic recreation. It is calorie free, good exercise, and no more dangerous than driving a car, assuming you do it safely.
Goofyy, what you said.
posted by Chasuk at 10:35 PM on January 25, 2005
These boys may have been legally and emotionally too young to fully understand their actions,
Sex isn't icky. It isn't icky for a 14-year old boy to lust after his teacher. Nor is it surprising that a 14-year old boy would gratify such lust if given the opportunity. It is considered abnormal for a 23-year old woman to reciprocate, but there are certainly worse fates for a 14-year old boy than enjoying sex with his hot to trot teacher.
I'm not saying that the alarm is disingenuous -- though in some cases I believe that it is -- but merely that I don't share it. I'm 44 years old, and I've woken up with an erection every morning for approximately 36 years. I could have rationally consented to a grown woman playing with my penis by the time I was 12. Before that? I don't know. Maybe. By the time I was 16, I was buying condoms and having sex with those who were legally adults, and I've never lost sleep over it. Sex is fantastic recreation. It is calorie free, good exercise, and no more dangerous than driving a car, assuming you do it safely.
Goofyy, what you said.
posted by Chasuk at 10:35 PM on January 25, 2005
The narrator of this film was pitching for it on Larry King tonight (in a re-run timeslot), and made a lot of hay out of some poorly-articulated statistic about "1 in 10" students engaging in sexual behaviour with students. That number probably includes "flirting" and other lower-grade behaviour that would only require that the student participates (and that the teacher receives but doesn't necessarily do anything to solicit or encourage). But it was discussed as though it meant 10% of students are having sexual *contact* of some kind with teachers, which would seem implausible.
Also, I agree that viewing teacher-student sex as a phenomenon that's "on the rise" for whatever reason could allow the husband to view the incidents that affected him personally as belonging to something greater than his own life and as, therefore, have nothing to do with him and less to do with his wife as well.
posted by onshi at 10:37 PM on January 25, 2005
Also, I agree that viewing teacher-student sex as a phenomenon that's "on the rise" for whatever reason could allow the husband to view the incidents that affected him personally as belonging to something greater than his own life and as, therefore, have nothing to do with him and less to do with his wife as well.
posted by onshi at 10:37 PM on January 25, 2005
The trend is that kids are getting sexual younger whether it's due to physical reasons or social ones. So will the incidence of them having sex with each other or with less responsible adults increase? Probably. This isn't about teachers. It's about how as a society we cope with sexuality of adolescents. Burying the issue with "Just say no" will just mean more dirty little secrets about barely legal teens. These kids need to be given the skills to deal with sex without falling prey to predators.
Whether Debbie Lafave was a predator or a great bonk really depends on the kid's maturity and the environment he lives in. Nobody's personal anecdotes here will shed any light on the former but on the latter, it's safe to say it's not very enlightened.
"I'm a virgin but this is an old T-shirt" - so goes the last poster girl for virginity.
posted by missbossy at 10:48 PM on January 25, 2005
Whether Debbie Lafave was a predator or a great bonk really depends on the kid's maturity and the environment he lives in. Nobody's personal anecdotes here will shed any light on the former but on the latter, it's safe to say it's not very enlightened.
"I'm a virgin but this is an old T-shirt" - so goes the last poster girl for virginity.
posted by missbossy at 10:48 PM on January 25, 2005
This guy is one of the writer/directors. KBC Entertainment doesn't return any results on Google, there is no reference at all to any serious research credentials (or any research at all, for that matter) in the synopsis, and the writing on this page is laughably bad. Just reading "A study of the growing and disturbing trend of teachers having sex with their students", I was struck by the immaturity of the phrasing, and became curious about just what sort of production this was. (Not to mention the the tossing about of words like "tragedy" and "plague", etc.)
This is no "study". More like a couple of young guys choosing a hot-button topic in hopes of generating publicity.
posted by taz at 12:02 AM on January 26, 2005
This is no "study". More like a couple of young guys choosing a hot-button topic in hopes of generating publicity.
posted by taz at 12:02 AM on January 26, 2005
Talk about an "after school special".
Beats "I Didn't Make The Dance Squad" or "Dang these pimples" all to hell.
posted by damnitkage at 3:39 AM on January 26, 2005
Beats "I Didn't Make The Dance Squad" or "Dang these pimples" all to hell.
posted by damnitkage at 3:39 AM on January 26, 2005
After the first couple of news items, those "anecdotes" on the website are all about the guy's wife!
This is absurd. Yes, every time it _does_ happen, there's a real risk of emotional harm. Just because of that, I think it's totally inappropriate behavior for a teacher, period. Nevertheless, the premise that there's some kind of "rise of sexual molestation" is just totally unfounded here.
posted by LairBob at 4:26 AM on January 26, 2005
This is absurd. Yes, every time it _does_ happen, there's a real risk of emotional harm. Just because of that, I think it's totally inappropriate behavior for a teacher, period. Nevertheless, the premise that there's some kind of "rise of sexual molestation" is just totally unfounded here.
posted by LairBob at 4:26 AM on January 26, 2005
These kind of unsubstantiated articles and the furor that they produce is exactly the reason that I no long encourage anyone to go into teaching.
It is no longer worth the personal liability. There is too large a percentage of our society that feels that the road to success and wealth is via a good lawsuit, and teachers (and scout leaders, and coaches, etc..) are prime targets...
Just not worth it folks.... get an MBA..
posted by HuronBob at 5:03 AM on January 26, 2005
It is no longer worth the personal liability. There is too large a percentage of our society that feels that the road to success and wealth is via a good lawsuit, and teachers (and scout leaders, and coaches, etc..) are prime targets...
Just not worth it folks.... get an MBA..
posted by HuronBob at 5:03 AM on January 26, 2005
Sleazy website for what looks to be a sleazy film. And as others have said, there does not seem to be any evidence that this is a trend, except on slow news days.
posted by LarryC at 6:28 AM on January 26, 2005
posted by LarryC at 6:28 AM on January 26, 2005
Well...... when I was 13 I had this english teacher. Every day at lunch he would go into his classroom with one of 4 or 5 girls, close the curtains and lock the door. One of them was the sister of my best friend at the time. This happened every day the entire time I went to the school. There were rumors about what was going on in the classroom, but I'm 13, nobody pays any attention to a 13 year-old.
Fast forward some 8 or 9 years, and two of the girls (including the sister of my friend) accuse this english teacher of molesting them. During the trial it came out that other teachers had brought this to the attention of the principal, as well as the parents of the girls. The principal took no action at all, not even asking to teacher to not lock his door when he was alone with a student. The first trial results in a hung jury, in the 2nd trial he struck a deal with the DA in which he pleaded guilty to child abuse in exchange for dropping the child molestation charges.
So yes, this does happen. Some might question if the girls were falsely accusing the teacher. Having been a student at the time in question, and noted the odd behavior, I think that yes, this really happened. Perhaps this is just an anecdote, but enough anecdotes make a trend...
You can read about the events I speak of here
posted by darkness at 4:51 PM on January 26, 2005
Fast forward some 8 or 9 years, and two of the girls (including the sister of my friend) accuse this english teacher of molesting them. During the trial it came out that other teachers had brought this to the attention of the principal, as well as the parents of the girls. The principal took no action at all, not even asking to teacher to not lock his door when he was alone with a student. The first trial results in a hung jury, in the 2nd trial he struck a deal with the DA in which he pleaded guilty to child abuse in exchange for dropping the child molestation charges.
So yes, this does happen. Some might question if the girls were falsely accusing the teacher. Having been a student at the time in question, and noted the odd behavior, I think that yes, this really happened. Perhaps this is just an anecdote, but enough anecdotes make a trend...
You can read about the events I speak of here
posted by darkness at 4:51 PM on January 26, 2005
maybe it's just one of those more reporting increases.
posted by nanojath at 7:59 PM on February 24, 2005
posted by nanojath at 7:59 PM on February 24, 2005
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