Dave Winer: "Real" or "Virtual" Tyrant?

March 15, 2006 8:15 PM

Winer goes after Cadenhead in litigious fashion. Never mind that the $10,000 Cadenhead earned transformed into $2.3 million for Winer. Meanwhile, Winer, on the verge of retirement (or so he claims), provides "real Dave" and "virtual Dave" explanation.
posted by ed (37 comments total)

So, did Dave Winer invent the blog, if such a thing is possible? I checked out his CV and obviously he's done a lot for the web, but what's the scoop here besides a little $5,000 lawsuit "...because we haven't been able to reach a written agreement to supercede the verbal one." Does this have any implication for Joe User or Joe Developer?
posted by furtive at 8:29 PM on March 15, 2006

I read this earlier.

You know, I don't think I've ever read anything anywhere on the net that makes Winer seem like a good guy or a cool guy or anything but a self-centered, egotistical jerk.

I think the only person who believes there's a difference between the asshole "virtual" Winer and the "real" Winer is Dave Winer.
posted by dobbs at 8:36 PM on March 15, 2006

You'd think a guy whose last name is pronounced "whiner" would be less of a....

Well.
posted by S.C. at 8:41 PM on March 15, 2006

furtive, you may want to read the Wikipedia article for a primer on Winer's technological contributions. That's probably as objective as you're likely to get as to what he actually did, as he's prone to exaggerate his own accomplishments and everyone else...well...he has a small fan club.
posted by scottreynen at 8:53 PM on March 15, 2006

Winer's response.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:59 PM on March 15, 2006

Note: Rogers is a Mefite, and so is Dave. Both are part of the horde of metaMIA's, though.

Me, I personally hope this is settled by gladiatorial combat, preferably with the Star Trek TOS fight music playing in the background. That'd be cool.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:01 PM on March 15, 2006

Winer? He's not dead yet?

Man, the RSS/web-services wars back in the day were some good times. Truly an emacs vs. vi for our era — they just don't make 'em like that anymore. These kids these days, with their "Rails" and their "Ajax," they just don't know what they're missing.

/me totters off into an early obsolescence
posted by IshmaelGraves at 9:07 PM on March 15, 2006

LAMP is for bitches.

Real men use postgres.
posted by delmoi at 9:10 PM on March 15, 2006

Also Dave Winer is the greatest wanker in the history of wankdom.
posted by delmoi at 9:12 PM on March 15, 2006

In my experience, nice and trusting people will perform work on the basis of a verbal agreement and only when the need arises (later) think about securing a written agreement. Those nice and trusting people will generally get steamrolled by those who don't wipe their asses without a written contract. This is why nice and trusting people are an endangered species, while providing legal services for asswipes is a growth industry.
posted by spock at 9:14 PM on March 15, 2006

I was just reading the Talk:Dave_Winer page on Wikipedia, and came across this quote, funny in this context:

Working together. Working together. That's the point. The software that I create, the software that Engelbart creates, is about working together. It's opposite of the walls that gatekeepers create. I hated what Apple did with Hypercard. I hated what Lotus did with Notes. I hate what every self-interested promoter does to see their often shallow ideas dominate all others. General Magic, Netscape, Sun (with Java) and now the open source promoters. I hate the engineers, esp the talented ones, who seek this kind of dominance. The purpose of networks of computers is to enable people to work together. Mastering the art of working together requires that you throw the concept of dominance out the window. Goodbye. I don't want to dominate you, I want to work with you. Big difference in attitude.

Dave Winer, October 6, 2000
posted by scottreynen at 9:24 PM on March 15, 2006

Your favorite database sucks.
posted by spock at 9:28 PM on March 15, 2006

Winer makes Dvorak look like Schachter.
posted by mullingitover at 9:47 PM on March 15, 2006

Cadenhead is the one who'd registered popebenedictxvi.com before the conclave and done all those great interviews afterward. right?
posted by pruner at 10:08 PM on March 15, 2006

pruner, yes.
posted by dobbs at 10:25 PM on March 15, 2006

You know, in all these years, I've never once seen "the real Dave" take even partial responsibility for "the virtual Dave" -- as if the latter was entirely and only the delusions of other people, and not, in fact, Dave's own active creation.
posted by theonetruebix at 10:35 PM on March 15, 2006

His "real" vs. "virtual" Dave argument is just another form of the "evil twin" argument.

That's the second time this month I've heard someone outside of a soap opera make this argument. What in the hell is up with that?
posted by moonbiter at 11:18 PM on March 15, 2006

Why is this trainwreck even public?
posted by Foaf at 11:30 PM on March 15, 2006

Maybe I should be posting this over in Ask instead, but is there a site that keeps track of who's battling whom? One minute it's Ben versus Mena, then it's the IRC backchannel versus whomever's on stage - now it's Winer versus whomever. It's the schoolyard writ large...please, someone wake me up when the bickering gets quiet...
posted by rmm at 11:30 PM on March 15, 2006

Me, I personally hope this is settled by gladiatorial combat, preferably with the Star Trek TOS fight music playing in the background.

I'm thinking more "Brokeback Mountain love theme."
posted by rcade at 3:42 AM on March 16, 2006

Mmmm, saucy.

Star Trek Brokeback Gladiator Mountain Music -- I smell a mashup!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:51 AM on March 16, 2006

Atom.
posted by jperkins at 4:26 AM on March 16, 2006

Careful, mr. wonderchicken. When you put it that way, I smell fan fiction, and I don't like the smell one bit.
posted by nebulawindphone at 5:32 AM on March 16, 2006

If all of the individuals that contribute to projects on the Internet operated like Winer, we wouldn't have a fraction of the innovation we have today and in Winer's absence, there would have been someone else to come along and do the same things he has done. Dave may sometimes look like one of "us" but he certainly operates like one of "them" and, as has been shown time and time again, should be treated as such.
posted by VulcanMike at 5:38 AM on March 16, 2006

I just realized that I'm now a tag on Metafilter. Woo hoo! This is the kind of spontaneous publicity I need. That really makes somebody. Things are going to start happening to me now.
posted by rcade at 6:27 AM on March 16, 2006

Winer sucks. And is an idiot.
It became so very apparent to me back in Dec. 2000- Jan. 2001 when he said Cruella the makeup queen of Florida was HAWT! Gag!!

I immediately removed userland from my bookmarks and his software from any possible consideration.
posted by nofundy at 6:39 AM on March 16, 2006

Winer has done a lot for the internet, and done just as much to nullify those accomplishments. I'm not sure if this whole thing should be public, as it seems to be a private dispute, but at the same time both people involved are public facing people, so I guess it's only natural.
posted by cell divide at 7:16 AM on March 16, 2006

Oi vey!
posted by shoepal at 8:35 AM on March 16, 2006

I'm going to have to speak up in Dave's defense on one point.



Katherine Harris does something for me too. When she showed up drunk on Hannity & Colmes sitting three-quarters profile and slurring her words, she swayed my voter.
posted by rcade at 8:44 AM on March 16, 2006

I think Winer's revenge masterstroke came when he started creating bogus SportsFilter accounts and posting page after page of 'bArry B0nds is a grate player halloffame bound andif you dont like it u r gay' posts. That's sticking it to Cadenhead where he lives.
posted by COBRA! at 8:55 AM on March 16, 2006

When you put it that way, I smell fan fiction, and I don't like the smell one bit.

Not just fanfic, but slash! OMG OMG

(If you don't know what "slash" is, take my word for it: you don't want to know.)
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 9:03 AM on March 16, 2006

If I remember correctly, Adam Curry invented the weblog, rss, and podcasting.


posted by The Jesse Helms at 9:13 AM on March 16, 2006

rcade, you poor sick puppy. you make a funny. your little voter is even sicker! but, yes, I admit it, I laughed.
posted by nofundy at 9:20 AM on March 16, 2006

Some day, I'm going to marry that The Jesse Helms.
posted by crataegus at 11:07 AM on March 16, 2006

I think Winer's revenge masterstroke came when he started creating bogus SportsFilter accounts and posting page after page of 'bArry B0nds is a grate player halloffame bound andif you dont like it u r gay' posts.

Oh so that's who it has been? That bastard!
posted by jerseygirl at 12:14 PM on March 16, 2006

Things are going to start happening to me now.

*sues rcade*
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:01 PM on March 16, 2006

rcade fired by whiner! (sorry, couldn't resist.)
posted by shoepal at 12:13 PM on March 17, 2006