How much for that schism in the window?
May 2, 2006 2:26 PM Subscribe
Following the Money "Millions of dollars contributed by a handful of donors have allowed a small network of theologically conservative individuals and organizations to mount a global campaign that has destabilized the Episcopal Church and may break up the Anglican Communion."
Yesterday, in anticipation of the upcoming General Convention, the Diocese of Washington released a report on the influence people like Howard Ahmanson Jr and other wealthy conservatives have had on the Episcopal Church, especially in regards to the church's positions on gays and lesbians.
The New Yorker: "Peter J. Boyer writes about how the election of a gay bishop has divided the Episcopal Church. Here, with Matt Dellinger, Boyer discusses the controversy and the changing face of religion in America."
posted by ericb at 2:33 PM on May 2, 2006
posted by ericb at 2:33 PM on May 2, 2006
especially in regards to the church's positions on gays and lesbians.
... missionary, I presume?
posted by joe lisboa at 2:39 PM on May 2, 2006
... missionary, I presume?
posted by joe lisboa at 2:39 PM on May 2, 2006
Perhaps I'm missing something in the last link, but all the policies listed are from 2000 and earlier and none are the reactionary things I was expecting to see. There didn't seem to be a discussion of gay clergy at all.
Were there changes made to this document since it was posted, or was it a milquetoast link for general reference?
posted by JMOZ at 2:55 PM on May 2, 2006
Were there changes made to this document since it was posted, or was it a milquetoast link for general reference?
posted by JMOZ at 2:55 PM on May 2, 2006
JMOZ -- check out the New Yorker discussion from two weeks ago. It summarizes the current debate regarding gay clergy, etc.
posted by ericb at 2:59 PM on May 2, 2006
posted by ericb at 2:59 PM on May 2, 2006
Wealthy conservative Christians who oppose social progress already have an option in Rome.
posted by bardic at 3:05 PM on May 2, 2006
posted by bardic at 3:05 PM on May 2, 2006
What about the objections from African branches of the Anglican church specifically from the Nigerian branch. I don't think they have a lot of money but they sure do have a lot of members (17.5 million).
posted by PenDevil at 3:07 PM on May 2, 2006
posted by PenDevil at 3:07 PM on May 2, 2006
the Episcopalians used to be the sensibles ones, no? Pity they've been hijacked too. I imagine many who disassociate themselves from those "others"-- like Southern Baptists and Evangelicals, etc-- had no clue their own churches were under the same guiding "leadership".
was it a controversy at all really before hateful, unChristian asses like Ahmanson started making it one?
posted by amberglow at 3:23 PM on May 2, 2006
was it a controversy at all really before hateful, unChristian asses like Ahmanson started making it one?
posted by amberglow at 3:23 PM on May 2, 2006
bardic:
What, and be filthy papists? Bah. They call them White Anglo-Saxon Protestants for a reason; Catholicism in the US is traditionally a more immigrant-centric religion.
posted by graymouser at 3:32 PM on May 2, 2006
What, and be filthy papists? Bah. They call them White Anglo-Saxon Protestants for a reason; Catholicism in the US is traditionally a more immigrant-centric religion.
posted by graymouser at 3:32 PM on May 2, 2006
graymouser, I was snarking, of course. As an atheist, I actually have some sympathy for the Episcopal church--a relative attends service at a DC church, and a former gf's mom was a minister in another Episcopal church.
But be careful with predictions about the third-world's love of the RCC--many of them are becoming Evangelicals.
(And make no mistake--there's a wonderful tradition of pro-labor, anti-poverty Catholic activism as well. It's just that asshats like Mel Gibson and Pope Whatever usually drown them out with their anti-gay, anti-third-world-poor noise pollution.)
posted by bardic at 3:38 PM on May 2, 2006
But be careful with predictions about the third-world's love of the RCC--many of them are becoming Evangelicals.
(And make no mistake--there's a wonderful tradition of pro-labor, anti-poverty Catholic activism as well. It's just that asshats like Mel Gibson and Pope Whatever usually drown them out with their anti-gay, anti-third-world-poor noise pollution.)
posted by bardic at 3:38 PM on May 2, 2006
JMOZ, the positions linked to in the last link are the ones that have been adopted by the church via ratification at General Convention. They are sensible and just, which is why the rightwingers are spending heaps of money to influence parishes:so they can send more conservative delegates to Diocesean Convention who will in turn elect conservative delegates to General Convention who will presumably hold firm against gay clergy and same-sex blessings by threatening to take their heaps of money and join the African church and then kick the ECUSA out of the Anglican Convention altogether.
posted by Biblio at 4:09 PM on May 2, 2006
posted by Biblio at 4:09 PM on May 2, 2006
The anglicans in Australia dont need to be infiltrated by wealthy individuals, they're already schisming between the more progressive Melbourne diocese and the increasingly reactionary Sydney diocese under Archbishop Peter Jensen.
posted by wilful at 4:41 PM on May 2, 2006
posted by wilful at 4:41 PM on May 2, 2006
As far as the African church goes, the report linked to points out that they are being supported and influenced by Ahmanson and co.
The Bishop of Washington had an opinion piece in the WaPo a few weeks ago calling out the Nigerian Primate for his support of a Nigerian law that criminalized same-sex marriage and curtails the rights of gay citizens in that country.
posted by Biblio at 5:14 PM on May 2, 2006
The Bishop of Washington had an opinion piece in the WaPo a few weeks ago calling out the Nigerian Primate for his support of a Nigerian law that criminalized same-sex marriage and curtails the rights of gay citizens in that country.
posted by Biblio at 5:14 PM on May 2, 2006
I attend an Episcopal church, though I do not consider myself an Episcopalian.
In any case, one day, the Bishop was in town, and someone asked him if the church could keep it together or whether there would be lots of splits and bickering.
I think the main thrust of his response was that people on all sides of divisive issues don't want to see a breakup... and that it may take centuries before divisive issues stop being devisive.
posted by bugmuncher at 5:14 PM on May 2, 2006
In any case, one day, the Bishop was in town, and someone asked him if the church could keep it together or whether there would be lots of splits and bickering.
I think the main thrust of his response was that people on all sides of divisive issues don't want to see a breakup... and that it may take centuries before divisive issues stop being devisive.
posted by bugmuncher at 5:14 PM on May 2, 2006
Between 1997 and 2002, the Institute on Religion and Democracy , set up during the Cold War to fight the spread of communism, spent at least $2.5 million to monitor and resist the liberalisation of America's churches.
If those commies had just held out a bit longer, we wouldn't have this problem.
posted by missbossy at 6:23 PM on May 2, 2006
If those commies had just held out a bit longer, we wouldn't have this problem.
posted by missbossy at 6:23 PM on May 2, 2006
Missbossy is right.
IRD with its wealth of funding has systematically cultivated groups within the Mainline Denominations to destabilize them, and if possible completely co-opt them. The Methodists for instance will probably face the choice of schism or being gutted by IRD's forces at their next General Convention in 2008.
Their entire goal is to suborn Protestant Christianity and marginalize any voices that espouse an idea of justice larger than their jingoist version of American patriotism or inconvenient to their corporate sponsors.
posted by MasonDixon at 6:52 AM on May 3, 2006
IRD with its wealth of funding has systematically cultivated groups within the Mainline Denominations to destabilize them, and if possible completely co-opt them. The Methodists for instance will probably face the choice of schism or being gutted by IRD's forces at their next General Convention in 2008.
Their entire goal is to suborn Protestant Christianity and marginalize any voices that espouse an idea of justice larger than their jingoist version of American patriotism or inconvenient to their corporate sponsors.
posted by MasonDixon at 6:52 AM on May 3, 2006
American Theocracy and also The End of Faith both address the issues of fundamentalism (funded by wealthy nuts) and its repercussions on society.
Time to step up and say "Hell yes, I'm a Christian and a liberal and damn proud of it!" for those of the faith who disagree with the nuts who have taken over much of America.
posted by nofundy at 12:10 PM on May 3, 2006
Time to step up and say "Hell yes, I'm a Christian and a liberal and damn proud of it!" for those of the faith who disagree with the nuts who have taken over much of America.
posted by nofundy at 12:10 PM on May 3, 2006
Wealthy conservative Christians who oppose social progress already have an option in Rome. -- bardic
Are you kidding? And try to remember all those saints, and the rosary? Pfffft. Way too much work for your standard "my moral superiority gives me the right to tell you what to do" breed of american christian. (Not saying *all* christians, mind you. Just denoting a specific, moneylenders in the temple, christ as a weapon, kinda christians. )
But be careful with predictions about the third-world's love of the RCC--many of them are becoming Evangelicals.
I would never, in a zillion years, have believed that the Catholic Church would go all charismatic...but certainly the ones in North Texas lean that direction. I've visited a number of Catholic schools, as I'm making school decisions for my son, and I was astounded at how preachy they were. It was never preachy when I went to Catholic school. I mean, sure there was regular Mass attendance, but our religion classes covered all the world religions fairly extensively. Now they teach dogma. All dogma, all the time. Crazy. They were weirder than the Baptist academy I looked at...and that school didn't teach evolution. I
Their entire goal is to suborn Protestant Christianity and marginalize any voices that espouse an idea of justice larger than their jingoist version of American patriotism or inconvenient to their corporate sponsors. --MasonDixon
Well, now that you come to mention it...that' makes sense.
A scary, inevitable, mountain bearing down on you, kind of sense...but sense none the less. The worst part is, I have no idea how to stop that juggernaut anymore than I could stop the one that led to Cheney being the shadow president.
posted by dejah420 at 12:46 PM on May 3, 2006
Are you kidding? And try to remember all those saints, and the rosary? Pfffft. Way too much work for your standard "my moral superiority gives me the right to tell you what to do" breed of american christian. (Not saying *all* christians, mind you. Just denoting a specific, moneylenders in the temple, christ as a weapon, kinda christians. )
But be careful with predictions about the third-world's love of the RCC--many of them are becoming Evangelicals.
I would never, in a zillion years, have believed that the Catholic Church would go all charismatic...but certainly the ones in North Texas lean that direction. I've visited a number of Catholic schools, as I'm making school decisions for my son, and I was astounded at how preachy they were. It was never preachy when I went to Catholic school. I mean, sure there was regular Mass attendance, but our religion classes covered all the world religions fairly extensively. Now they teach dogma. All dogma, all the time. Crazy. They were weirder than the Baptist academy I looked at...and that school didn't teach evolution. I
Their entire goal is to suborn Protestant Christianity and marginalize any voices that espouse an idea of justice larger than their jingoist version of American patriotism or inconvenient to their corporate sponsors. --MasonDixon
Well, now that you come to mention it...that' makes sense.
A scary, inevitable, mountain bearing down on you, kind of sense...but sense none the less. The worst part is, I have no idea how to stop that juggernaut anymore than I could stop the one that led to Cheney being the shadow president.
posted by dejah420 at 12:46 PM on May 3, 2006
They call them White Anglo-Saxon Protestants for a reason; Catholicism in the US is traditionally a more immigrant-centric religion.
I'm confused. Aren't the WASPs immigrants? I seem to recall something about a mayflower... oh wait, that was the Puritans. You're right, the Episcopalians were here first, giggling at the epicanthic folds on the folks trudging across the Bering Strait.
posted by anotherpanacea at 8:40 AM on May 4, 2006
I'm confused. Aren't the WASPs immigrants? I seem to recall something about a mayflower... oh wait, that was the Puritans. You're right, the Episcopalians were here first, giggling at the epicanthic folds on the folks trudging across the Bering Strait.
posted by anotherpanacea at 8:40 AM on May 4, 2006
Episcopal Diocese in California May Elect Gay Bishop -- Three of seven candidates are homosexual; vote may widen rift with church.
posted by ericb at 10:21 AM on May 6, 2006
posted by ericb at 10:21 AM on May 6, 2006
« Older I bet you look real purty in a burka, baby... | The apocalypse is coming Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
Interestingly, when the President attends church, he attends St. John's which is a parish of the Diocese issuing this report.
posted by Biblio at 2:29 PM on May 2, 2006