Homeland Security
May 18, 2006 1:47 PM Subscribe
You can't write anything honest, only fairy tales." "This administration," Bob Graham, the former Senator and chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, told me, "does not seek the truth as a basis for its judgments, but tries to use intelligence to validate judgments it has already made."
"I spent 30 years at the CIA," said one former official, "and no one was ever interested in knowing whether I was a Republican or a Democrat. That changed with this administration. Now you have loyalty tests."
"I spent 30 years at the CIA," said one former official, "and no one was ever interested in knowing whether I was a Republican or a Democrat. That changed with this administration. Now you have loyalty tests."
Anything that moves away from the politicization of intelligence would be an improvement. Stovepiping, political litmus tests, etc. have absolutely NO place in the analysis & production of quality, actionable intel.
This administration is effectively gutting the national security community out of sheer paranoid lunacy.
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 2:05 PM on May 18, 2006
This administration is effectively gutting the national security community out of sheer paranoid lunacy.
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 2:05 PM on May 18, 2006
I wonder what America post-Bush will be like.
So do I.
What is the country going to look like in, say, 10 years? I really can't imagine.
posted by sonofsamiam at 2:07 PM on May 18, 2006
So do I.
What is the country going to look like in, say, 10 years? I really can't imagine.
posted by sonofsamiam at 2:07 PM on May 18, 2006
I wonder what America post-Bush will be like.
Probably like post-Soviet Russia: broke, surly, and nostalgic for the Iron Hand.
Why no tags?
posted by languagehat at 2:07 PM on May 18, 2006
Probably like post-Soviet Russia: broke, surly, and nostalgic for the Iron Hand.
Why no tags?
posted by languagehat at 2:07 PM on May 18, 2006
Reminds me of this book: LBJ and Vietnam: A Different Kind of War
posted by overanxious ducksqueezer at 2:12 PM on May 18, 2006
posted by overanxious ducksqueezer at 2:12 PM on May 18, 2006
I call 'em the MTV-IA
posted by Smedleyman at 2:22 PM on May 18, 2006
posted by Smedleyman at 2:22 PM on May 18, 2006
But Clinton got a blow job! He's the evil one!
posted by AspectRatio at 2:22 PM on May 18, 2006
posted by AspectRatio at 2:22 PM on May 18, 2006
I wonder what America post-Bush will be like.
I'm starting to question whether there will be one.
posted by deadmessenger at 2:25 PM on May 18, 2006
I'm starting to question whether there will be one.
posted by deadmessenger at 2:25 PM on May 18, 2006
And the promised Senate investigation on the politicization of intellignece--delayed lest it interfere with the 2004 election--where is it? Will the Dems have to close the Senate doors again as they did in November?
posted by ahimsakid at 2:28 PM on May 18, 2006
posted by ahimsakid at 2:28 PM on May 18, 2006
America post-Bush? You mean after Bush's brother, Neil Bush is done in 2016? Or after the next in the line of "great leaders?"
In all seriousness, I think the American people have finally stopped being numb and are feeling the pain of everything that's been happing under their noses.
posted by lockle at 2:32 PM on May 18, 2006
In all seriousness, I think the American people have finally stopped being numb and are feeling the pain of everything that's been happing under their noses.
posted by lockle at 2:32 PM on May 18, 2006
In the future everything will be politicised. The reality-based community will no longer hold America back with their "facts" and "science".
posted by Artw at 2:42 PM on May 18, 2006
posted by Artw at 2:42 PM on May 18, 2006
Well, as long as the US military is screwing up in Iraq and the guys in Washington aren't understanding why, it makes it that less likely either will have the resources or tactics to successfully invade anywhere else. Which is, you know, good. For everyone except the US military.
posted by Hogshead at 2:47 PM on May 18, 2006
posted by Hogshead at 2:47 PM on May 18, 2006
Why no tags?
May I nominate this post as a candidate for the "batshitinane" tag?
posted by shmegegge at 2:52 PM on May 18, 2006
May I nominate this post as a candidate for the "batshitinane" tag?
posted by shmegegge at 2:52 PM on May 18, 2006
I think the American people have finally stopped being numb and are feeling the pain of everything that's been happing under their noses.
You could not be more completely and totally wrong. You have America's kids coming home in pieces from a failing war based on provable lies and people are still putting ribbons on their cars. Mean wages are falling for the past seven years and debt rising faster than ever yet people are spending what they don't have like drunk sailors at a Singapore whorehouse on Saturday night. This is not symptomatic of a people feeling pain.
People are completely anesthetized and shielded to the pain of their lack of foresight. The American people, Left and Right, live like children always looking forward to big Christmas even though they behaved like shit-headed little cretins all year long.
The only way I see us getting past what Bush and our entire Congress has done to this nation is a lottery to choose amongst them and then public executions. Otherwise it will be more of the same. The bar is set so low and the penalties for betraying the citizen nonexistent. In fact every member of the shamed administration will go on to get even richer after they are out of power. And that is like a glowing lure in a hungry fish pond for future scum who want power rather than to serve. (Too many similes for one post?)
posted by tkchrist at 3:01 PM on May 18, 2006 [5 favorites]
You could not be more completely and totally wrong. You have America's kids coming home in pieces from a failing war based on provable lies and people are still putting ribbons on their cars. Mean wages are falling for the past seven years and debt rising faster than ever yet people are spending what they don't have like drunk sailors at a Singapore whorehouse on Saturday night. This is not symptomatic of a people feeling pain.
People are completely anesthetized and shielded to the pain of their lack of foresight. The American people, Left and Right, live like children always looking forward to big Christmas even though they behaved like shit-headed little cretins all year long.
The only way I see us getting past what Bush and our entire Congress has done to this nation is a lottery to choose amongst them and then public executions. Otherwise it will be more of the same. The bar is set so low and the penalties for betraying the citizen nonexistent. In fact every member of the shamed administration will go on to get even richer after they are out of power. And that is like a glowing lure in a hungry fish pond for future scum who want power rather than to serve. (Too many similes for one post?)
posted by tkchrist at 3:01 PM on May 18, 2006 [5 favorites]
With loyalty tests we run the risk of getting a new wave of intel folks every 4-8 years. Which makes it a very bad option for smart, savvy, career oriented folks.
Also - When you start a person's job at the CIA with a loyalty test you set the expectation that supporting the current political agenda is the common goal. Very bad.
I know that "loyalty tests" was a rhetorical device here, but I doubt it lies far outside the truth. Irregardless, I think we need to get rid of the CIA and start over. 9/11 was an indication that we have a problem which won't be fixed by redoing the org chart.
posted by MrCheese!!! at 3:05 PM on May 18, 2006
Also - When you start a person's job at the CIA with a loyalty test you set the expectation that supporting the current political agenda is the common goal. Very bad.
I know that "loyalty tests" was a rhetorical device here, but I doubt it lies far outside the truth. Irregardless, I think we need to get rid of the CIA and start over. 9/11 was an indication that we have a problem which won't be fixed by redoing the org chart.
posted by MrCheese!!! at 3:05 PM on May 18, 2006
I wonder what America post-Bush will be like.
I'm starting to question whether there will be one.
When my son is my age, I hope he can feel better about his country's, and his [projected] children's, future than I do right now.
posted by taosbat at 3:05 PM on May 18, 2006
I'm starting to question whether there will be one.
When my son is my age, I hope he can feel better about his country's, and his [projected] children's, future than I do right now.
posted by taosbat at 3:05 PM on May 18, 2006
When my son is my age, I hope he can feel better about his country's, and his [projected] children's, future than I do right now.
I would hope, then, that you're taking steps beyond hope to ensure that future for him.
posted by Jairus at 3:37 PM on May 18, 2006
I would hope, then, that you're taking steps beyond hope to ensure that future for him.
posted by Jairus at 3:37 PM on May 18, 2006
May I nominate this post as a candidate for the "batshitinane" tag?
posted by shmegegge at 2:52 PM PST on May 18
You may nominate.
But unless you have actual proof that intelligence isn't being politicized, I'll put you up for the right_wing_nut_job tag and call ya out over trying to discredit someone because you don't like their answer.
Bob isn't the 1st to make the charge.
posted by rough ashlar at 3:55 PM on May 18, 2006
posted by shmegegge at 2:52 PM PST on May 18
You may nominate.
But unless you have actual proof that intelligence isn't being politicized, I'll put you up for the right_wing_nut_job tag and call ya out over trying to discredit someone because you don't like their answer.
Bob isn't the 1st to make the charge.
posted by rough ashlar at 3:55 PM on May 18, 2006
I would hope, then, that you're taking steps beyond hope to ensure that future for him.
If I were doing nothing, I suppose I'd have nothing to feel down about.
posted by taosbat at 4:05 PM on May 18, 2006
If I were doing nothing, I suppose I'd have nothing to feel down about.
posted by taosbat at 4:05 PM on May 18, 2006
.
posted by glycolized at 4:11 PM on May 18, 2006
posted by glycolized at 4:11 PM on May 18, 2006
America post-Bush? You mean after Bush's brother, Neil Bush is done in 2016?
Silly, silly lockle. It's Jeb in '08, then Neil in '16. The real action is in 2024, when all the Bush babies (Barbara, Jenna, George P., Jeb Jr., Noelle, Lauren and Pierce) will all be over 35, thus eligible heirs to the throne. Despite Pierce's early media forays, I'm already liking the cut of Jeb Jr.'s jib. From his Wikipedia article:
Silly, silly lockle. It's Jeb in '08, then Neil in '16. The real action is in 2024, when all the Bush babies (Barbara, Jenna, George P., Jeb Jr., Noelle, Lauren and Pierce) will all be over 35, thus eligible heirs to the throne. Despite Pierce's early media forays, I'm already liking the cut of Jeb Jr.'s jib. From his Wikipedia article:
Jeb Jr. has received media attention on two occasions: first in 2000, at age 16, he was caught having public sex in a Tallahassee, Florida, mall parking lot with a 17-year-old girl. No charges were filed. Secondly, on September 16, 2005, he was arrested and charged with public intoxication and resisting arrest on the street corner near the popular Sixth Street in Austin, Texas. His father's response was to assert this was a "private matter".posted by hangashore at 4:43 PM on May 18, 2006
As I've stated before, I'm a Canadian (married to an American) who strongly believe in the superiority of what the U.S.A. was founded on...the freedoms and responsibilities of the citizenry, separation of church and state, decentralized government control, etc.
But in the last 8 years, I've been afraid of the U.S. I've never been that way before. When I cross the border to visit my wife's family I feel like I look suspicious, because I am so nervous. I feel like I'm being tracked by the police state. Sure, this is really paranoia, but with all that's happened in the last eight years, it freaks me out.
As I said, I love the basis of the U.S. Now that so much of that is disappearing, it's suddenly like a country I've never known. The politics and divisiveness has overrun the expectation of decency of not just the political process, but of ordinary citizens, as they begin to turn on each other and make 'traitor' accusations.
American, who I trusted, now creeps the hell out of me.
posted by Kickstart70 at 4:55 PM on May 18, 2006 [1 favorite]
But in the last 8 years, I've been afraid of the U.S. I've never been that way before. When I cross the border to visit my wife's family I feel like I look suspicious, because I am so nervous. I feel like I'm being tracked by the police state. Sure, this is really paranoia, but with all that's happened in the last eight years, it freaks me out.
As I said, I love the basis of the U.S. Now that so much of that is disappearing, it's suddenly like a country I've never known. The politics and divisiveness has overrun the expectation of decency of not just the political process, but of ordinary citizens, as they begin to turn on each other and make 'traitor' accusations.
American, who I trusted, now creeps the hell out of me.
posted by Kickstart70 at 4:55 PM on May 18, 2006 [1 favorite]
This is the culture of pathological positivism. There's no such thing as bad news - just bad attitudes.
posted by slatternus at 5:13 PM on May 18, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by slatternus at 5:13 PM on May 18, 2006 [1 favorite]
We know that for many years there's been no country here
Nothing here but the war, and again and again we say
I'm not ready for this, I am not ready for this
Over and over and over, I'm really not ready at all
Thank you Mekons.
posted by allen.spaulding at 5:39 PM on May 18, 2006
Nothing here but the war, and again and again we say
I'm not ready for this, I am not ready for this
Over and over and over, I'm really not ready at all
Thank you Mekons.
posted by allen.spaulding at 5:39 PM on May 18, 2006
I've heard that the test for potential TSA employees includes questions like "I could do a better job than the people currently in charge of the government [Y|N]", and a 'wrong' answer gets you rejected regardless of your score on the other portions of the test, like spotting handguns in x-rays, etc.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 5:52 PM on May 18, 2006
posted by mr_crash_davis at 5:52 PM on May 18, 2006
The real action is in 2024, when all the Bush babies (Barbara, Jenna, George P., Jeb Jr., Noelle, Lauren and Pierce) will all be over 35...
posted by hangashore
I must be very tired or something because when I saw those three names, I read them as "Nobel Laureate and Peace."
As if.
posted by leftcoastbob at 6:27 PM on May 18, 2006
posted by hangashore
I must be very tired or something because when I saw those three names, I read them as "Nobel Laureate and Peace."
As if.
posted by leftcoastbob at 6:27 PM on May 18, 2006
I've heard that the test for potential TSA employees includes questions like "I could do a better job than the people currently in charge of the government [Y|N]", and a 'wrong' answer gets you rejected regardless of your score on the other portions of the test, like spotting handguns in x-rays, etc.
Which answer is 'wrong'? Seems to me an arrogant, self-righteous prick (an ideal clipper-nicker, depending on other answers) will answer 'yes', and a compliant, authority-worshipping prick (an ideal clipper-nicker, depending on other answers) will answer 'no'.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 7:29 PM on May 18, 2006
Which answer is 'wrong'? Seems to me an arrogant, self-righteous prick (an ideal clipper-nicker, depending on other answers) will answer 'yes', and a compliant, authority-worshipping prick (an ideal clipper-nicker, depending on other answers) will answer 'no'.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 7:29 PM on May 18, 2006
"I could do a better job than the people currently in charge of the government [Y|N]"
Sounds sort of like "Have you stopped beating your wife?"
posted by rougy at 7:44 PM on May 18, 2006
Sounds sort of like "Have you stopped beating your wife?"
posted by rougy at 7:44 PM on May 18, 2006
rough ashlar said: You may nominate.
But unless you have actual proof that intelligence isn't being politicized, I'll blahblahblahblah.
no no. the batshitinane tag was meant to say that the president's attitude toward the intelligence community is both inane and insane. it's the president who's inane, not the article writer.
and I'm solidly liberal.
posted by shmegegge at 8:14 PM on May 18, 2006
But unless you have actual proof that intelligence isn't being politicized, I'll blahblahblahblah.
no no. the batshitinane tag was meant to say that the president's attitude toward the intelligence community is both inane and insane. it's the president who's inane, not the article writer.
and I'm solidly liberal.
posted by shmegegge at 8:14 PM on May 18, 2006
vietnam showed that uhmurkinz don't begin to stir uneasily about thier young coming home in body bags until the count reaches 50,000 or so. and there the enemy was just a commie boogieman. we're talkin' oil here. this particular sausage grinder has just begun to crank.
posted by quonsar at 8:19 PM on May 18, 2006
posted by quonsar at 8:19 PM on May 18, 2006
quonsar, the irony is that johnson and mcnamara thought the way to wear down the vietnamese and ultimately win the war was with the death toll. eventually the vietnamese would get tired of dying and give up. to their surprise, the american people wore down faster, with a much lower toll. and we the people have not learned our lesson: creepy idiots in charge of our wars- not such a good idea.
posted by overanxious ducksqueezer at 8:42 PM on May 18, 2006
posted by overanxious ducksqueezer at 8:42 PM on May 18, 2006
Holy fuck! Lay it down, tk! Marked as favorite. Well said.
posted by squirrel at 10:33 PM on May 18, 2006
posted by squirrel at 10:33 PM on May 18, 2006
(Too many similes for one post?)
Never!
I just gotta see that one again:
people are spending what they don't have like drunk sailors at a Singapore whorehouse on Saturday night.
Heh.
posted by nofundy at 5:30 AM on May 19, 2006
Never!
I just gotta see that one again:
people are spending what they don't have like drunk sailors at a Singapore whorehouse on Saturday night.
Heh.
posted by nofundy at 5:30 AM on May 19, 2006
If we can wage a pre-emptive war, why not a pre-emptive comment?
That's "Righteous Forward Defense."
posted by sonofsamiam at 5:50 AM on May 19, 2006
That's "Righteous Forward Defense."
posted by sonofsamiam at 5:50 AM on May 19, 2006
Nofundy, I kid you not. Though I was not in the Navy. Nor have I have been to Singapore. I have been drunk in Bangkok on a Saturday night. 22 years young. Dumb, and full of come. With more cash than sense. And that's all I'm saying about that.
This year and for the first time in my entire adult life. And against all my principles to this point. I have been considering buying property in Mexico or Italy. Somewhere warm and slow. Pulling up stakes, selling everything, and getting the fuck out of this reverse-motion nightmare that America is becoming. Never before have I entertained such a cowardly act.
If I went back in time ten years and told myself THIS - all this shit America is doing and what I think of it - would be happening I wouldn't believe me. It's a goddamned science fiction with Bush as the James Bond super villain.
posted by tkchrist at 2:27 PM on May 19, 2006
This year and for the first time in my entire adult life. And against all my principles to this point. I have been considering buying property in Mexico or Italy. Somewhere warm and slow. Pulling up stakes, selling everything, and getting the fuck out of this reverse-motion nightmare that America is becoming. Never before have I entertained such a cowardly act.
If I went back in time ten years and told myself THIS - all this shit America is doing and what I think of it - would be happening I wouldn't believe me. It's a goddamned science fiction with Bush as the James Bond super villain.
posted by tkchrist at 2:27 PM on May 19, 2006
« Older Holy recursion, Batman! | Mashup Google with NOAA, and you get -- forecasts! Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by chunking express at 1:50 PM on May 18, 2006