Getting caught pulling the goalie
May 26, 2006 7:27 AM Subscribe
This [youtube] is what happens when an "unemployed porn site user" and CARL MONDAY, CLEVELAND'S INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER meet at a local library. [via the always excellent Deadspin]
Ahahahahha ooh god oh god oh god !
posted by elpapacito at 7:32 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by elpapacito at 7:32 AM on May 26, 2006
For some reason I couldn't stop laughing. And that's wrong.
posted by tranquileye at 7:35 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by tranquileye at 7:35 AM on May 26, 2006
It's a super internet classic already ! Except that I wouldn't like to buy the guy or be treated the way the guy was treaded (guilty trip, a-la priest). It is also an interesting way to show how NOT to to investigative reporting.
posted by elpapacito at 7:35 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by elpapacito at 7:35 AM on May 26, 2006
ehm wouldn't like to be
posted by elpapacito at 7:36 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by elpapacito at 7:36 AM on May 26, 2006
"A disturbing investigative report on crime in the libraries."
I'm so upset, I don't know what I'll do next.
posted by tellurian at 7:39 AM on May 26, 2006
I'm so upset, I don't know what I'll do next.
posted by tellurian at 7:39 AM on May 26, 2006
"A disturbing investigative report on crime in the libraries."
I'm so upset, I don't know what I'll do next.
go have a wank in a library?
posted by lemonfridge at 7:43 AM on May 26, 2006
I'm so upset, I don't know what I'll do next.
go have a wank in a library?
posted by lemonfridge at 7:43 AM on May 26, 2006
The dad is so awesome. By far my favorite part.
posted by 912 Greens at 7:44 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by 912 Greens at 7:44 AM on May 26, 2006
What gives? A local "investigative" news show was running a segment on porn in libraries last night.
Coincidence? Or near-simultaneous occurances?
You decide.
posted by sonofsamiam at 7:44 AM on May 26, 2006
Coincidence? Or near-simultaneous occurances?
You decide.
posted by sonofsamiam at 7:44 AM on May 26, 2006
Also: since when is playing with yourself "having sex"?
posted by sonofsamiam at 7:45 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by sonofsamiam at 7:45 AM on May 26, 2006
Why does the reporter keep referring to jacking it as "having sex"?
posted by sharksandwich at 7:45 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by sharksandwich at 7:45 AM on May 26, 2006
May sweeps, anyone?
I love the reaction shot of the random young woman halfway through - "Oh my god! That's horrible!" It's marvelously perfect cheap-shot journalism. And what did he expect confronting the dad like that? What *possible* useful answer could he get from asking him how he feels about his son jacking off at the library? He was angling for an explosion, the prick, and it would've been poetic justice if he'd have tripped and cracked his head on the sidewalk running away.
posted by mediareport at 7:46 AM on May 26, 2006
I love the reaction shot of the random young woman halfway through - "Oh my god! That's horrible!" It's marvelously perfect cheap-shot journalism. And what did he expect confronting the dad like that? What *possible* useful answer could he get from asking him how he feels about his son jacking off at the library? He was angling for an explosion, the prick, and it would've been poetic justice if he'd have tripped and cracked his head on the sidewalk running away.
posted by mediareport at 7:46 AM on May 26, 2006
Because "having sex" sounds like it is more dangerous to the nearby children than "having a furtive wank under the desk".
posted by Meatbomb at 7:47 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by Meatbomb at 7:47 AM on May 26, 2006
I don't know who is more appalling; the wanker or the "reporter".
posted by parki at 7:47 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by parki at 7:47 AM on May 26, 2006
What about the children?
posted by SteveInMaine at 7:48 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by SteveInMaine at 7:48 AM on May 26, 2006
This reminds me of The Squid and The Whale. Only, it's a lot cooler when it's Kevin Kline's young son, and not actually real.
Also, that journalist is a massive asshole. There are other, perhaps better ways to deal with this than surprise and humiliate the entire family of the offender.
posted by SmileyChewtrain at 7:50 AM on May 26, 2006
Also, that journalist is a massive asshole. There are other, perhaps better ways to deal with this than surprise and humiliate the entire family of the offender.
posted by SmileyChewtrain at 7:50 AM on May 26, 2006
The reporter is definitely a serious d-bag, and is a big part of just what's wrong with television news. The library wanker comes off as confused and maybe a bit slow, which I would think is more pathetic than threatening. His father, I'd say, displayed exactly the right reaction in that situation. I wouldn't want that trenchcoated creep harassing my family either.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:50 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by uncleozzy at 7:50 AM on May 26, 2006
They can wank if they want, too.
posted by Meatbomb at 7:50 AM on May 26, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by Meatbomb at 7:50 AM on May 26, 2006 [1 favorite]
Library Masturbation Rules:
1. If you masturbate while looking at porn in the library and are subsquently questioned about it by a local TV news reporter, just walk away.
2. If you fail to follow rule #1 and conduct an interview, you should not let the reporter come back to your parents' house.
posted by mullacc at 7:50 AM on May 26, 2006
1. If you masturbate while looking at porn in the library and are subsquently questioned about it by a local TV news reporter, just walk away.
2. If you fail to follow rule #1 and conduct an interview, you should not let the reporter come back to your parents' house.
posted by mullacc at 7:50 AM on May 26, 2006
What gives? A local "investigative" news show was running a segment on porn in libraries last night.
What gives is the end of the May sweeps period, out of which local TV stations' ad rates will be set, and this story is spreading like wildfire among TV news editors right now who are sending reporters out all across the land frantically calling libraries looking for sexcapades to catch the eye of the handful of Nielsen families in their cities. That's what gives.
At least it's not another 'gay sex at rest stops' expose.
posted by mediareport at 7:51 AM on May 26, 2006
What gives is the end of the May sweeps period, out of which local TV stations' ad rates will be set, and this story is spreading like wildfire among TV news editors right now who are sending reporters out all across the land frantically calling libraries looking for sexcapades to catch the eye of the handful of Nielsen families in their cities. That's what gives.
At least it's not another 'gay sex at rest stops' expose.
posted by mediareport at 7:51 AM on May 26, 2006
The reporter is getting cooked in the comments on his blog post about this.
posted by mathowie at 7:51 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by mathowie at 7:51 AM on May 26, 2006
I don't know who is more appalling; the wanker or the "reporter".
I was going to say exactly this, using the same words.
I stopped halfway through because they were both so awful, but thanks to 912 Greens I went back to watch the end with the dad. He rocks! The only decent guy in the piece.
posted by CunningLinguist at 7:52 AM on May 26, 2006
I was going to say exactly this, using the same words.
I stopped halfway through because they were both so awful, but thanks to 912 Greens I went back to watch the end with the dad. He rocks! The only decent guy in the piece.
posted by CunningLinguist at 7:52 AM on May 26, 2006
mullacc:
#3 - If you initially deny it, don't pussy out at the first follow up question and admit all with a groveling apology.
posted by CunningLinguist at 7:54 AM on May 26, 2006
#3 - If you initially deny it, don't pussy out at the first follow up question and admit all with a groveling apology.
posted by CunningLinguist at 7:54 AM on May 26, 2006
Oh god, I love that family.
I'm rooting for the dad to hunt that weasel down- and also maybe have the talk with his son he's been putting off for the last 15 years.
posted by maryh at 7:56 AM on May 26, 2006
I'm rooting for the dad to hunt that weasel down- and also maybe have the talk with his son he's been putting off for the last 15 years.
posted by maryh at 7:56 AM on May 26, 2006
You're with me, wanker. (Deadspin ripoff, but I can't help it.)
posted by KAS at 7:59 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by KAS at 7:59 AM on May 26, 2006
While I agree that porn in the public library (and subsequent wanking) are both wrong (seriously, if you can't afford a computer and internet, tough shit. That's not why they put those computers in the library), I hope somebody gives that reporter a cockpunch.
posted by antifuse at 8:08 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by antifuse at 8:08 AM on May 26, 2006
I feel bad for the next person using that computer.
posted by horsewithnoname at 8:09 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by horsewithnoname at 8:09 AM on May 26, 2006
Actually, mail a horse was more fun than the library wanker.
posted by Keith Talent at 8:14 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by Keith Talent at 8:14 AM on May 26, 2006
I'm setting up webcams at all of my library's terminals. Look for Patrons Gone Wild: Volume 1 in stores by July! We're gonna have Snoop Dog MC!
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:17 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:17 AM on May 26, 2006
I feel terrible for the mom. What a nightmare! None of them are any too bright (including the librarian and the reporter) and I can't really think of a worse way to handle this whole thing.
The librarian should have called the cops the first time this happened.
posted by leftcoastbob at 8:20 AM on May 26, 2006
The librarian should have called the cops the first time this happened.
posted by leftcoastbob at 8:20 AM on May 26, 2006
i'm in the library trying to catch a wank to this video, but the porno flashes by too fast. is this some kind of joke?
posted by breakfast_yeti at 8:21 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by breakfast_yeti at 8:21 AM on May 26, 2006
Metafilter: At least it's not another 'gay sex at rest stops' expose.
posted by dead_ at 8:21 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by dead_ at 8:21 AM on May 26, 2006
Hunh, I always assumed that the computers at the library had porno blocked. Thanks, Carl Monday!
That was the best worst bit of local television investigative reportage I've ever seen, hard to believe that it wasn't a spoof (I feel bad for the mom too, though).
Anyone else suspect that the reporter keeps a headshot of John 'Give Me a Break!' Stossel on the pillow next to his?
(I can't help but notice that our own famous librarian hasn't stopped by to drop off a comment... probably too busy allowing perverts and freaks and other mustachioed people to run rampant, mere feet away from OUR CHILDREN!!!)
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 8:32 AM on May 26, 2006
That was the best worst bit of local television investigative reportage I've ever seen, hard to believe that it wasn't a spoof (I feel bad for the mom too, though).
Anyone else suspect that the reporter keeps a headshot of John 'Give Me a Break!' Stossel on the pillow next to his?
(I can't help but notice that our own famous librarian hasn't stopped by to drop off a comment... probably too busy allowing perverts and freaks and other mustachioed people to run rampant, mere feet away from OUR CHILDREN!!!)
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 8:32 AM on May 26, 2006
It's good to see a father stand up for his son, at least.
posted by brownpau at 8:34 AM on May 26, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by brownpau at 8:34 AM on May 26, 2006 [1 favorite]
Also, that journalist is a massive asshole.
The reporter is definitely a serious d-bag
There is more than one wanker in this video.
I hope somebody gives that reporter a cockpunch.
Yeah, the reporter was an asshole, but so what? Where's the scorn for, you know, the guy masturbating in a public library. Nobody seems particularly upset by that, but it's the reporter that's giving all you delicate flowers a case of the vapors?
posted by Gamblor at 8:34 AM on May 26, 2006
The reporter is definitely a serious d-bag
There is more than one wanker in this video.
I hope somebody gives that reporter a cockpunch.
Yeah, the reporter was an asshole, but so what? Where's the scorn for, you know, the guy masturbating in a public library. Nobody seems particularly upset by that, but it's the reporter that's giving all you delicate flowers a case of the vapors?
posted by Gamblor at 8:34 AM on May 26, 2006
The journalist is clearly using the sex and children outrage approach, probably to create sensation and obtain better rating, even if there is no actual story of abuse , what we see is agitation of fears (I wonder if he worked for Bush administration) and digging and throwning dirt at an innocent (he didn't actually harm anybody except himself).
From another angle, the journalist could have choosen to hide the identity of the "criminal masturbator" to avoid him useless harrassing , while still making the piece. Yet he choosed NOT to, suggesting he probably agrees with this smear tactic, which kind of negates the sanctimonious style of his reporting. Certainly he will be responsible of any harm that the guy may receive (consider the kind of anti-abortionist zealots angle)
I guess he could use some of the same treatement, after all on top of my head I can't think of a more delicious and rating obtaining scenario then patronizing the patronizer, digging some dirt on him and then have him publicly apologize to the family.
On a tangent: is people still stuck in victorian age when it comes to sex ? Some seems to.
On preview: it's the reporter that's giving all you delicate flowers a case of the vapors?
The reporter is giving vapors ? What the hell are you yappin about ?
posted by elpapacito at 8:38 AM on May 26, 2006
From another angle, the journalist could have choosen to hide the identity of the "criminal masturbator" to avoid him useless harrassing , while still making the piece. Yet he choosed NOT to, suggesting he probably agrees with this smear tactic, which kind of negates the sanctimonious style of his reporting. Certainly he will be responsible of any harm that the guy may receive (consider the kind of anti-abortionist zealots angle)
I guess he could use some of the same treatement, after all on top of my head I can't think of a more delicious and rating obtaining scenario then patronizing the patronizer, digging some dirt on him and then have him publicly apologize to the family.
On a tangent: is people still stuck in victorian age when it comes to sex ? Some seems to.
On preview: it's the reporter that's giving all you delicate flowers a case of the vapors?
The reporter is giving vapors ? What the hell are you yappin about ?
posted by elpapacito at 8:38 AM on May 26, 2006
Gamblor, just look at the wanker. God made him pay his karmic debt to society the moment he was born.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:39 AM on May 26, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:39 AM on May 26, 2006 [1 favorite]
Where's the scorn for, you know, the guy masturbating in a public library.
Like I said, I think he comes off as confused and maybe even a little retarded which, while it certainly doesn't forgive the act, makes him a bit more sympathetic than the reporter, who repeatedly asks him why he was "having sex" in the library.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:41 AM on May 26, 2006
Like I said, I think he comes off as confused and maybe even a little retarded which, while it certainly doesn't forgive the act, makes him a bit more sympathetic than the reporter, who repeatedly asks him why he was "having sex" in the library.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:41 AM on May 26, 2006
The guy jerking in the library made a bad mistake, one that would be best dealt with by a stern lecture from a security guard. Instead a reporter shows up and demonstrates to the people of ohio that this guy masterbated in a library once. And then in the Bubba clip, instead of getting the police to stop Bubba, the reporter goes into the men's room to lecture him.
posted by drezdn at 8:44 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by drezdn at 8:44 AM on May 26, 2006
Speaking as a former Cleveland resident, and as someone who worked in a porn shop before I became a public librarian, I can say with confidence that this story is about as accurate and responsible as anything else this fake journalist has produced in the last ten or fifteen years.
Monday has zero credibility. His fake investigations usually tend more to breathless reporting about health department restaurant evaluations, and he is consistently marketed in the most crass and sensationalistic manner available. He is, indeed, the John Stossel of Cleveland.
posted by box at 8:45 AM on May 26, 2006
Monday has zero credibility. His fake investigations usually tend more to breathless reporting about health department restaurant evaluations, and he is consistently marketed in the most crass and sensationalistic manner available. He is, indeed, the John Stossel of Cleveland.
posted by box at 8:45 AM on May 26, 2006
Some of those blog responses are great. This comment in particular is spot on.
posted by gigawhat? at 8:57 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by gigawhat? at 8:57 AM on May 26, 2006
is people still stuck in victorian age when it comes to sex ? Some seems to.
In what era would it be acceptible to masturbate in a public library?
My point is that everyone here seems so offended by the actions of the reporter, but few seem bothered by the cause: a man masturbating in the public library.
Sure, the reporter is a sensationalist prick, but he didn't create the situation. He didn't lure in the OSU dude with porno mags and a bottle of astroglide, waiting behind him with a camera. Mr. OSU took matters into his own hands. Ahem.
So you'll have to forgive me if I don't have much sympathy for the guy masturbating in a public library. My grandmother uses the public library, as does my little sister, and young cousins. Someday in the not too distant future, my kids will, too. Any one of them could have happened upon Mr. OSU jerking himself. Fuck that guy.
posted by Gamblor at 8:57 AM on May 26, 2006
In what era would it be acceptible to masturbate in a public library?
My point is that everyone here seems so offended by the actions of the reporter, but few seem bothered by the cause: a man masturbating in the public library.
Sure, the reporter is a sensationalist prick, but he didn't create the situation. He didn't lure in the OSU dude with porno mags and a bottle of astroglide, waiting behind him with a camera. Mr. OSU took matters into his own hands. Ahem.
So you'll have to forgive me if I don't have much sympathy for the guy masturbating in a public library. My grandmother uses the public library, as does my little sister, and young cousins. Someday in the not too distant future, my kids will, too. Any one of them could have happened upon Mr. OSU jerking himself. Fuck that guy.
posted by Gamblor at 8:57 AM on May 26, 2006
Every channel in NE Ohio has one or two of these nasty vigilante reporters who ambush city employees caught napping on the job, restaurant owners who get bad grades on health inspections, etc. Is this not normal in other markets?
I onced worked with a guy who would daily threaten to call Carl Monday and turn in our boss for some imagined violations. Most people here realize what Monday is--a prick who will publicly embarrass anyone if it will pull in ratings, no matter how flimsy the actual "outrage".
posted by Nahum Tate at 9:03 AM on May 26, 2006
I onced worked with a guy who would daily threaten to call Carl Monday and turn in our boss for some imagined violations. Most people here realize what Monday is--a prick who will publicly embarrass anyone if it will pull in ratings, no matter how flimsy the actual "outrage".
posted by Nahum Tate at 9:03 AM on May 26, 2006
My grandmother uses the public library, as does my little sister, and young cousins.
And now they all have sperm on them.
posted by sonofsamiam at 9:04 AM on May 26, 2006 [1 favorite]
And now they all have sperm on them.
posted by sonofsamiam at 9:04 AM on May 26, 2006 [1 favorite]
With role model like that, how could the young man possibly have difficulty with impulse control?
posted by elderling at 9:05 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by elderling at 9:05 AM on May 26, 2006
And now they all have sperm on them.
My nana?
*wipes tear from eye*
posted by Gamblor at 9:06 AM on May 26, 2006
My nana?
*wipes tear from eye*
posted by Gamblor at 9:06 AM on May 26, 2006
Fuck that guy.
It doesn't seem to me that the best way to help a guy who obviously has trouble restraining his compulsions is to humiliate him on television. If we've given up on everything except the vengeance model for maintaining social order, let's go ahead and cut his balls off.
posted by Nahum Tate at 9:08 AM on May 26, 2006
It doesn't seem to me that the best way to help a guy who obviously has trouble restraining his compulsions is to humiliate him on television. If we've given up on everything except the vengeance model for maintaining social order, let's go ahead and cut his balls off.
posted by Nahum Tate at 9:08 AM on May 26, 2006
Gamblor writes "So you'll have to forgive me if I don't have much sympathy for the guy masturbating in a public library."
I don't think anyone has sympathy for him. What he did was so obviously wrong and unacceptable that a thread of comments condemning him would be utterly pointless and boring. And so we can set that aside and comment on the less obvious but also unacceptable component of the video--namely, the asshattery of the local TV news "reporter."
posted by mullacc at 9:09 AM on May 26, 2006
I don't think anyone has sympathy for him. What he did was so obviously wrong and unacceptable that a thread of comments condemning him would be utterly pointless and boring. And so we can set that aside and comment on the less obvious but also unacceptable component of the video--namely, the asshattery of the local TV news "reporter."
posted by mullacc at 9:09 AM on May 26, 2006
Why? Because there is an agenda. That agenda is to weaken public services that are funded by tax dollars and then provide private alternatives that will benefit various businesses by charging fees for services that used to be free. Sadly most Americans are being duped into thinking that freedom number one in America is the freedom to profit no matter who it hurts. That's not the America I was born in in 1970. This is no longer my America. And you are not an American.
Now that's an interesting angle.
on preview:
My grandmother uses the public library, as does my little sister, and young cousins.
And they probably masturbate there as well, who knows ? I certainly don't care. Yet a public library is a public place in which ,reasonably, one should maintain a behavior that doesn't bother nor offend anyone. As it is impossible NOT to offend anyone in any possible way a compromise must be found among the interested parties.
Any one of them could have happened upon Mr. OSU jerking himself. Fuck that guy.
No, fuck you. What unspeakable horrors could have happened ?
posted by elpapacito at 9:11 AM on May 26, 2006
Now that's an interesting angle.
on preview:
My grandmother uses the public library, as does my little sister, and young cousins.
And they probably masturbate there as well, who knows ? I certainly don't care. Yet a public library is a public place in which ,reasonably, one should maintain a behavior that doesn't bother nor offend anyone. As it is impossible NOT to offend anyone in any possible way a compromise must be found among the interested parties.
Any one of them could have happened upon Mr. OSU jerking himself. Fuck that guy.
No, fuck you. What unspeakable horrors could have happened ?
posted by elpapacito at 9:11 AM on May 26, 2006
Interesting interview technique in the Bubba interview: "Answer my question and I'll let you pee."
Someone should have tried it with Scottie, our favorite ex-press secretary.
posted by leftcoastbob at 9:17 AM on May 26, 2006
Someone should have tried it with Scottie, our favorite ex-press secretary.
posted by leftcoastbob at 9:17 AM on May 26, 2006
Yes, I was distrated that the reporter kept saying "having sex" (in the library).
posted by jca at 9:17 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by jca at 9:17 AM on May 26, 2006
Watch it to the end. The dad is indeed the best part of that.
Where's the scorn for, you know, the guy masturbating in a public library.
It's probably mitigated by the fact that X00,000 people have seen him admitting to masturbating in a public library.
I can understand an investigative report if perhaps they videotape *10* people doing it, or perhaps a child was threatened with lewd advances, but one "pervert" who only abuses himself? Good lord, hide the children!
posted by mrgrimm at 9:34 AM on May 26, 2006
Where's the scorn for, you know, the guy masturbating in a public library.
It's probably mitigated by the fact that X00,000 people have seen him admitting to masturbating in a public library.
I can understand an investigative report if perhaps they videotape *10* people doing it, or perhaps a child was threatened with lewd advances, but one "pervert" who only abuses himself? Good lord, hide the children!
posted by mrgrimm at 9:34 AM on May 26, 2006
Yes, the fellow having a stroke amongst the stacks did wrong. SOP for that kinda thing would be to immediately call the police, report the lewd act, and then inform the individual that they've been busted.
The argument could be made that Monday aided and abetted Mr. OSU's behavior, since he filmed him doing the deed but obviously put off alerting the authorities until the interview was filmed. Way to make Cleveland safer, Carl Monday.
'I'm Kent Brockman, on the eleven o'clock news tonight...a certain type of soft drink has been found to be lethal, we won't tell you which one until after sports and the weather with Sonny Storm.'
And is it just me (Or my Canadianess), but did this break a LOT of privacy laws? Hidden cameras in public areas, not pixellating the faces of people who I doubt signed a waiver... etc.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:35 AM on May 26, 2006
The argument could be made that Monday aided and abetted Mr. OSU's behavior, since he filmed him doing the deed but obviously put off alerting the authorities until the interview was filmed. Way to make Cleveland safer, Carl Monday.
'I'm Kent Brockman, on the eleven o'clock news tonight...a certain type of soft drink has been found to be lethal, we won't tell you which one until after sports and the weather with Sonny Storm.'
And is it just me (Or my Canadianess), but did this break a LOT of privacy laws? Hidden cameras in public areas, not pixellating the faces of people who I doubt signed a waiver... etc.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:35 AM on May 26, 2006
Gamblor, I once had sex in a library (and not just with myself). I took some precaution to stay out of direct public eye, but let's face it - your grandmother, sister and niece could have accidentally witnessed me committing that depraved act of public indecency. The horror! The shame! Maybe you can call that reporter and see if he will fly to Seattle to publically confront me.
Damn that girl was hot.
posted by blindcarboncopy at 9:40 AM on May 26, 2006
Damn that girl was hot.
posted by blindcarboncopy at 9:40 AM on May 26, 2006
elpapacito: No, fuck you.
Really? You've picked a strange topic to fling insults over. Is this an issue that hits close to home for you?
I'm going to go out on a limb here and state that I'm against people masturbating in public. I know, that may not win me any friends, but so be it.
elpapacito: What unspeakable horrors could have happened ?
I'm going to go out on another limb and say that the possibility of my eight and ten year old female cousins seeing a man exposing his genitals and masturbating in public would be a bad thing. Again, this may be an unpopular stance, but that's just the way I was raised.
So feel free to elaborate on your pro-public-masturbation and pro-expose-yourself-to-a-child positions so we all know exactly where you stand.
posted by Gamblor at 9:42 AM on May 26, 2006
Really? You've picked a strange topic to fling insults over. Is this an issue that hits close to home for you?
I'm going to go out on a limb here and state that I'm against people masturbating in public. I know, that may not win me any friends, but so be it.
elpapacito: What unspeakable horrors could have happened ?
I'm going to go out on another limb and say that the possibility of my eight and ten year old female cousins seeing a man exposing his genitals and masturbating in public would be a bad thing. Again, this may be an unpopular stance, but that's just the way I was raised.
So feel free to elaborate on your pro-public-masturbation and pro-expose-yourself-to-a-child positions so we all know exactly where you stand.
posted by Gamblor at 9:42 AM on May 26, 2006
it's the reporter that's giving all you delicate flowers a case of the vapors?
he's conducting video lynchings for the entertainment and outrage of the complacent, self-righteous viewer at home ... the masturbator is a slight detriment to our society ... the reporter, acting as a public judge, jury and executioner wielding the axe of humiliation is corroding society with a form of shame porn, embarrassing one person for the amusement of people who want to feel superior to someone, while reinforcing their paranoia about "those people"
crap, he wouldn't even let that bubba guy close the damn door to take a piss ... you see, i knew that guys get drunk and drive ... i didn't need a tv reporter to tell me that ... i didn't know that tv reporters were so arrogant and self-important that they think a few minutes on video is more important than someone needing to go to the bathroom
So feel free to elaborate on your pro-public-masturbation and pro-expose-yourself-to-a-child positions so we all know exactly where you stand.
feel free to defend the corruption of the public with cheap voyeurism and mock outrage
posted by pyramid termite at 9:47 AM on May 26, 2006
he's conducting video lynchings for the entertainment and outrage of the complacent, self-righteous viewer at home ... the masturbator is a slight detriment to our society ... the reporter, acting as a public judge, jury and executioner wielding the axe of humiliation is corroding society with a form of shame porn, embarrassing one person for the amusement of people who want to feel superior to someone, while reinforcing their paranoia about "those people"
crap, he wouldn't even let that bubba guy close the damn door to take a piss ... you see, i knew that guys get drunk and drive ... i didn't need a tv reporter to tell me that ... i didn't know that tv reporters were so arrogant and self-important that they think a few minutes on video is more important than someone needing to go to the bathroom
So feel free to elaborate on your pro-public-masturbation and pro-expose-yourself-to-a-child positions so we all know exactly where you stand.
feel free to defend the corruption of the public with cheap voyeurism and mock outrage
posted by pyramid termite at 9:47 AM on May 26, 2006
i didn't know that tv reporters were so arrogant and self-important that they think a few minutes on video is more important than someone needing to go to the bathroom.
Dude, it was pretty obvious that Monday wanted to stall Bubba in the hopes that the guy'd piss himself: 'Look, you're so drunk you've soiled yourself! You can't control yourself, think you can control a car?!?'
Well, it seemed obvious to me. But I'm evil like that.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:52 AM on May 26, 2006
Dude, it was pretty obvious that Monday wanted to stall Bubba in the hopes that the guy'd piss himself: 'Look, you're so drunk you've soiled yourself! You can't control yourself, think you can control a car?!?'
Well, it seemed obvious to me. But I'm evil like that.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:52 AM on May 26, 2006
What I find interesting is the potential backstory, which we know nothing about:
- Did the hidden camera just happen to be there to catch the guy jerking?
- If somebody (let's say the reporter or the cameraman) knew about this wanker, why didn't they report him to the police immediately, rather than letting him do the nasty?
- By not doing about anything the alleged crime as it was happening, is the reporter in some way an accessory to the crime?
Another great comment, from a librarian and parent. Seems there's quite a few librarians commenting there.
I remember being amazed when I visited the main San Francisco library back in 1992--compared to the library in Edmonton, where I was living at the time, it was small and run-down. It made me think that local governments in the US must find it really difficult to raise taxes, compared to Canada. Although maybe it was just California.
posted by russilwvong at 9:57 AM on May 26, 2006
I remember being amazed when I visited the main San Francisco library back in 1992--compared to the library in Edmonton, where I was living at the time, it was small and run-down. It made me think that local governments in the US must find it really difficult to raise taxes, compared to Canada. Although maybe it was just California.
posted by russilwvong at 9:57 AM on May 26, 2006
i think it is easy for one to dismiss the behavior of this kid in favor of criticizing the reporter (and his news agency) simply because i can honestly say that there are any number of things i have done in my lifetime that would meet with public dispproval/ridicule were they broadcast in a mid-size tv market during sweeps...
and like alvy, i would be curious as to the legality of having a hidden video camera in a public library (especially as much as people freak out about the government monitoring our activity there)...i don't know how the waiver thing applies...i can't imagine the parents would have signed one...could they sue on the basis that their presence within the report essentially served an entertainment purpose and not a journalistic one?
posted by troybob at 10:00 AM on May 26, 2006
and like alvy, i would be curious as to the legality of having a hidden video camera in a public library (especially as much as people freak out about the government monitoring our activity there)...i don't know how the waiver thing applies...i can't imagine the parents would have signed one...could they sue on the basis that their presence within the report essentially served an entertainment purpose and not a journalistic one?
posted by troybob at 10:00 AM on May 26, 2006
I for one don't want my six year old niece seeing some dude playing with himself. Seems the library should be free of that.
Call me crazy.
posted by DieHipsterDie at 10:04 AM on May 26, 2006
Call me crazy.
posted by DieHipsterDie at 10:04 AM on May 26, 2006
There must not be a lot of newsworthy things going on in Cleveland.
posted by moonbiter at 10:04 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by moonbiter at 10:04 AM on May 26, 2006
I think they should go into homes and find the depth of this masturbation problem, what's occuring behind our neighbor's doors!
posted by geoff. at 10:07 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by geoff. at 10:07 AM on May 26, 2006
I think they should go into homes and find the depth of this masturbation problem, what's occuring behind our neighbor's doors!
This incident occured in a public library.
posted by DieHipsterDie at 10:08 AM on May 26, 2006
This incident occured in a public library.
posted by DieHipsterDie at 10:08 AM on May 26, 2006
Meatbomb: They can wank if they want
and leave your friends behind? Because your friends can't wank, and if they can't wank, then they're no friends of mine.
posted by dr_dank at 10:08 AM on May 26, 2006 [1 favorite]
and leave your friends behind? Because your friends can't wank, and if they can't wank, then they're no friends of mine.
posted by dr_dank at 10:08 AM on May 26, 2006 [1 favorite]
I didn't know that evil existed in the world until I watched this segment.
Someone should give this guy a Peabody award!
posted by psmealey at 10:14 AM on May 26, 2006
Someone should give this guy a Peabody award!
posted by psmealey at 10:14 AM on May 26, 2006
And the Bubba episode a pee-buddy.
posted by leftcoastbob at 10:17 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by leftcoastbob at 10:17 AM on May 26, 2006
exposing his genitals and masturbating in public would be a bad thing.
It would if it was taught them that it is BAD. Otherwise, the kid would be unimpressed and would maybe put innocent curious questions about the function of body. If you teach a kid that a lighting is God that is angry at him and God will harm him, he'll become afraid of lightning.
If you teach a kid that a penis and a man masturbating are "bad" and you don't know why and don't explain why, he'll only remember that it is bad and be afraid of anything sexual. Kids in africa aren't afraid of naked bodies, aren't afraid of sexuality and why should they ? "Don't be afraid" , this suggestion was proposed even by the anti-preservatives, almost archetipal conservative Johannes Paulus the 2nd, the pope that recently died. He is damn right on that, one is better off NOT being afraid.
So feel free to elaborate on your pro-public-masturbation and pro-expose-yourself-to-a-child positions so we all know exactly where you stand.
You are falling on the wrong logical conclusion that if I don't condemn public exposure it means I don't oppose it , then I must favor or support it.
I never said I support public masturbation , I just say it is NOT something one should lose sleep over, nor humilitate a guy that was quite clearly embarassed by his behavior and that _actually_ didn't harm anybody. That journalist belongs to a category of people that clearly understand how to play on fears to generate emotive reactions, outrage being the most sought because it captivates the audience. His work may be technically flawless as he generates audience and captivates attention (even this discussion is kind of a reinforcement to the theory outrage "works") but it's extremely detrimental for society.
I actually am saving that video to show some of my students how NOT to do a job.
posted by elpapacito at 10:26 AM on May 26, 2006
It would if it was taught them that it is BAD. Otherwise, the kid would be unimpressed and would maybe put innocent curious questions about the function of body. If you teach a kid that a lighting is God that is angry at him and God will harm him, he'll become afraid of lightning.
If you teach a kid that a penis and a man masturbating are "bad" and you don't know why and don't explain why, he'll only remember that it is bad and be afraid of anything sexual. Kids in africa aren't afraid of naked bodies, aren't afraid of sexuality and why should they ? "Don't be afraid" , this suggestion was proposed even by the anti-preservatives, almost archetipal conservative Johannes Paulus the 2nd, the pope that recently died. He is damn right on that, one is better off NOT being afraid.
So feel free to elaborate on your pro-public-masturbation and pro-expose-yourself-to-a-child positions so we all know exactly where you stand.
You are falling on the wrong logical conclusion that if I don't condemn public exposure it means I don't oppose it , then I must favor or support it.
I never said I support public masturbation , I just say it is NOT something one should lose sleep over, nor humilitate a guy that was quite clearly embarassed by his behavior and that _actually_ didn't harm anybody. That journalist belongs to a category of people that clearly understand how to play on fears to generate emotive reactions, outrage being the most sought because it captivates the audience. His work may be technically flawless as he generates audience and captivates attention (even this discussion is kind of a reinforcement to the theory outrage "works") but it's extremely detrimental for society.
I actually am saving that video to show some of my students how NOT to do a job.
posted by elpapacito at 10:26 AM on May 26, 2006
Any "reporter" that pursued that pathetic slob as mercilessly as Monday did probably has some pretty twisted shit of his own to hide.
posted by psmealey at 10:28 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by psmealey at 10:28 AM on May 26, 2006
Jesus, that whole thing was really tawdry and horrible. I was kind of hoping for some funny for my friday morning - now I just want to go read Joyce Carol Oates and ponder the futile and fetid darkness of human existence.
posted by freebird at 10:29 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by freebird at 10:29 AM on May 26, 2006
Speaking as a Cleveland resident, Carl Monday is a total and utter tool. But he did give us the world's best. quote. ever., deployed in our household on many occasions.
The scene: bogus Carl Monday "investigation" of poor homeless guys being paid by "tin men" to rip valuable metal off of abandoned or otherwise unoccupied homes in the 'hood.
Carl Monday chases down homeless guy pushing shopping cart full of metal, homeless guy shouts (rather plaintively) "GET AWAY FROM ME, CARL MONDAY!"
We're still using that line today.
GET AWAY FROM ME, CARL MONDAY!
posted by bitter-girl.com at 10:31 AM on May 26, 2006 [1 favorite]
The scene: bogus Carl Monday "investigation" of poor homeless guys being paid by "tin men" to rip valuable metal off of abandoned or otherwise unoccupied homes in the 'hood.
Carl Monday chases down homeless guy pushing shopping cart full of metal, homeless guy shouts (rather plaintively) "GET AWAY FROM ME, CARL MONDAY!"
We're still using that line today.
GET AWAY FROM ME, CARL MONDAY!
posted by bitter-girl.com at 10:31 AM on May 26, 2006 [1 favorite]
"unemployed porn site user"
I believe the proper term is "independent human sexuality research consultants."
posted by Saucy Intruder at 10:45 AM on May 26, 2006
I believe the proper term is "independent human sexuality research consultants."
posted by Saucy Intruder at 10:45 AM on May 26, 2006
it's one thing when people volunteer to go on jerry springer or such, but i hate seeing when innocent bystanders become media targets like this...and you see it in the major networks as well, with any big murder or scandal story...it's like some kind of encouragement to feed off each other...
...the thing with the mom and dad is rather heartbreaking...consider that a guy in his 20s masturbating at a public library has got to have some issues--yeah, he could just be stupid and irresponsible, but he could have some mental shit going on...consider the reaction of the librarian: this guy had done this kind of thing before, and she was trying to defend letting him come back in--it seemed she more felt sorry for the guy...and then it's not bad enough you have a son who might be messed up somehow, but then a reporter shows up with the intention of exposing to the world how messed up he is...i mean, imagine your mom in front of that camera in a situation like that...
posted by troybob at 10:45 AM on May 26, 2006
...the thing with the mom and dad is rather heartbreaking...consider that a guy in his 20s masturbating at a public library has got to have some issues--yeah, he could just be stupid and irresponsible, but he could have some mental shit going on...consider the reaction of the librarian: this guy had done this kind of thing before, and she was trying to defend letting him come back in--it seemed she more felt sorry for the guy...and then it's not bad enough you have a son who might be messed up somehow, but then a reporter shows up with the intention of exposing to the world how messed up he is...i mean, imagine your mom in front of that camera in a situation like that...
posted by troybob at 10:45 AM on May 26, 2006
"GET AWAY FROM ME CARL MONDAY"
New Metafilter tagline.
T-shirts must be made.
posted by docgonzo at 10:49 AM on May 26, 2006
New Metafilter tagline.
T-shirts must be made.
posted by docgonzo at 10:49 AM on May 26, 2006
I've got questions about his technique. I mean, did he wax the bannister out in the open or was it a pocket rub? I mean, as squicky as a public pocket rub is, it ain't nothing like a brazen wank. Sure, it's not so satisfying but who amongst us hasn't lingered over a positional adjustment while entertaining lewd thoughts? Of course, he loses points for not being able to cache an image in his head long enough to head to the loo and working things out in relative privacy.
And porn in the library is scary? OMGWTHBBQ is going on in the Danielle Steele section?! I mean, heck, my local public library has a whole section euphemistically titled "Romance."
posted by Fezboy! at 10:56 AM on May 26, 2006
And porn in the library is scary? OMGWTHBBQ is going on in the Danielle Steele section?! I mean, heck, my local public library has a whole section euphemistically titled "Romance."
posted by Fezboy! at 10:56 AM on May 26, 2006
I almost gave up on that, but fortunately I hung in there till the dad showed up, which made it all worthwhile.
So feel free to elaborate on your pro-public-masturbation and pro-expose-yourself-to-a-child positions so we all know exactly where you stand.</em
Great irrational indignation! Say, you may have a career in local news!
posted by languagehat at 10:58 AM on May 26, 2006
So feel free to elaborate on your pro-public-masturbation and pro-expose-yourself-to-a-child positions so we all know exactly where you stand.</em
Great irrational indignation! Say, you may have a career in local news!
posted by languagehat at 10:58 AM on May 26, 2006
If God didn't want us to rub one out in the public library he wouldn't have given us hands and dongs, Carl Monday! Sheesh!
posted by Divine_Wino at 10:58 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by Divine_Wino at 10:58 AM on May 26, 2006
How did that happen? I didn't even put the italics in myself, I let the magic button do it for me.
posted by languagehat at 10:59 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by languagehat at 10:59 AM on May 26, 2006
Is it even certain he had his willie out?
He might have just had his hand in his lap, although I did see some shoulder action there.
posted by sonofsamiam at 10:59 AM on May 26, 2006
He might have just had his hand in his lap, although I did see some shoulder action there.
posted by sonofsamiam at 10:59 AM on May 26, 2006
If God didn't want us to rub one out in the public library he wouldn't have given us hands and dongs, Carl Monday! Sheesh!
And if I may add, in the case of one special, special boy who you can probably check out on the web at the library, DONGS FOR HANDS!
posted by Divine_Wino at 11:03 AM on May 26, 2006
And if I may add, in the case of one special, special boy who you can probably check out on the web at the library, DONGS FOR HANDS!
posted by Divine_Wino at 11:03 AM on May 26, 2006
Holy shit. The guy was dead wrong, but maybe the punishment should be, ya know, being banned from the library or getting arrested instead of this kind of local TV news "expose" crap.
I wonder how proud Carl Monday would be if the kid went and killed himself from the embarrassment of having this aired on TV and linked all over the net?
And I was kinda disturbed that he equates looking up pr0n with being a child molestor.
Makes you wonder what kind of stuff is in Carl Monday's browser cache.
posted by Alexandros at 11:15 AM on May 26, 2006
I wonder how proud Carl Monday would be if the kid went and killed himself from the embarrassment of having this aired on TV and linked all over the net?
And I was kinda disturbed that he equates looking up pr0n with being a child molestor.
Makes you wonder what kind of stuff is in Carl Monday's browser cache.
posted by Alexandros at 11:15 AM on May 26, 2006
How DARE two iraqui tennis player wear shorts ? It's against the moral, as seeing people in shorts is sexual ! So they were killed because they wore shorts.
posted by elpapacito at 11:20 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by elpapacito at 11:20 AM on May 26, 2006
Isn't that what the public library bathroom is for?
I guess I'm just a prude but this guy's brazen behavior is no good for the library in general, especially as he had been caught and warned before.
I'm not sure why people assume he is 'innocent' and didn't enjoy the fact that he was around other people and perhaps even children. We don't know what his problems are, but public masturbation could be an indicator of much worse problems.
If just one parent had noticed this, they would be less likely to take their kids to the library, and then the word spreads "grown men masturbate in public at the library". It's damaging.
posted by cell divide at 11:26 AM on May 26, 2006
I guess I'm just a prude but this guy's brazen behavior is no good for the library in general, especially as he had been caught and warned before.
I'm not sure why people assume he is 'innocent' and didn't enjoy the fact that he was around other people and perhaps even children. We don't know what his problems are, but public masturbation could be an indicator of much worse problems.
If just one parent had noticed this, they would be less likely to take their kids to the library, and then the word spreads "grown men masturbate in public at the library". It's damaging.
posted by cell divide at 11:26 AM on May 26, 2006
"Are our libraries a beacon of light...or a cesspool for perverts?"
Why can't they be both?
posted by psmealey at 11:27 AM on May 26, 2006 [2 favorites]
Why can't they be both?
posted by psmealey at 11:27 AM on May 26, 2006 [2 favorites]
Gamblor, I can assure you that what this "reporter" does to society is much more harmful than what the public wanker does to society. That's why everyone is commenting on it.
"Wanking in the public library == bad" is pretty much understood without it being said. But it is not something that should be equated with the real horror of sexual predators, as the tone of the piece (and your tone) imply.
That's blatantly obvious. If you can't see that, you need to take a step back from the emotional buttons the reporter intentionally pushed in you.
Get some perspective. You're arguing with a lame straw man. ("GASP! You MeFites don't condemn public wanking!" Speaking of having the vapors...)
posted by teece at 11:28 AM on May 26, 2006
"Wanking in the public library == bad" is pretty much understood without it being said. But it is not something that should be equated with the real horror of sexual predators, as the tone of the piece (and your tone) imply.
That's blatantly obvious. If you can't see that, you need to take a step back from the emotional buttons the reporter intentionally pushed in you.
Get some perspective. You're arguing with a lame straw man. ("GASP! You MeFites don't condemn public wanking!" Speaking of having the vapors...)
posted by teece at 11:28 AM on May 26, 2006
I think Gamblor might have missed the thread where 78% of Mefi agreed that wanking in public libraries was fine but that all children under the age of 18 and all women over the age of 68 were to be sealed loosely but firmly in opaque bubblewrap.
posted by Divine_Wino at 11:33 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by Divine_Wino at 11:33 AM on May 26, 2006
I'm reading the thread where elpapacito said that a child seeing a dude jerking off in a public place could be a great opportunity to answer questions about the functions of the human body, and implied that it was everyone else's problem for being uptight about public masturbation. That's this same thread, right?
posted by Gamblor at 11:44 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by Gamblor at 11:44 AM on May 26, 2006
I think we all know what we mean. But it sure is fun pretending we don't.
posted by It ain't over yet at 11:55 AM on May 26, 2006
posted by It ain't over yet at 11:55 AM on May 26, 2006
Gamblor-
That's how my parents taught me about the birds and the bees.
posted by papakwanz at 12:18 PM on May 26, 2006
That's how my parents taught me about the birds and the bees.
posted by papakwanz at 12:18 PM on May 26, 2006
... and the flowers and the trees and the halfwits whackin' in the stacks...
posted by Divine_Wino at 12:22 PM on May 26, 2006
posted by Divine_Wino at 12:22 PM on May 26, 2006
Let he who is without wank cast the first news.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 12:29 PM on May 26, 2006
posted by Kirth Gerson at 12:29 PM on May 26, 2006
I don't understand why the guy didn't just, you know, shut up or run away. Why continue speaking to the reporter?
posted by picea at 12:55 PM on May 26, 2006
posted by picea at 12:55 PM on May 26, 2006
SteveInMaine: What about the children?
Wait for it. Wait for it ...
Gamblor: My grandmother uses the public library, as does my little sister, and young cousins. Someday in the not too distant future, my kids will, too.
Ahhh, there it is.
P.S. I like John Stossel's reporting.
posted by oncogenesis at 12:55 PM on May 26, 2006
Wait for it. Wait for it ...
Gamblor: My grandmother uses the public library, as does my little sister, and young cousins. Someday in the not too distant future, my kids will, too.
Ahhh, there it is.
P.S. I like John Stossel's reporting.
posted by oncogenesis at 12:55 PM on May 26, 2006
I'm reading the thread where elpapacito said that a child seeing a dude jerking off in a public place could be a great opportunity to answer questions about the functions of the human body, and implied that it was everyone else's problem for being uptight about public masturbation. That's this same thread, right?
Woah, what? I don't know what thread you're reading but I certanly didn't see that.
posted by delmoi at 1:02 PM on May 26, 2006
Woah, what? I don't know what thread you're reading but I certanly didn't see that.
posted by delmoi at 1:02 PM on May 26, 2006
Is elpapacito actually arguing that public masturbation is just fine? Wow. Fight the good fight, my friend. It truly is a brave new world that you seek to forge.
posted by mr_roboto at 1:02 PM on May 26, 2006
posted by mr_roboto at 1:02 PM on May 26, 2006
If John Stossel and Ric "Farkliché" Romano had an illegitimate child, he'd be CARL MONDAY!!! (Well, at least they only let him on the news once a week...)
And do MeFi posters approve of "public wanking"?!? POSTING TO MEFI IS PUBLIC WANKING!!!
posted by wendell at 1:03 PM on May 26, 2006
And do MeFi posters approve of "public wanking"?!? POSTING TO MEFI IS PUBLIC WANKING!!!
posted by wendell at 1:03 PM on May 26, 2006
Off topic, but related:
Court Limits TV-Sex-Sting Charges
"Without teen victim, prosecutors face an added hurdle."
posted by ericb at 1:04 PM on May 26, 2006
Court Limits TV-Sex-Sting Charges
"Without teen victim, prosecutors face an added hurdle."
posted by ericb at 1:04 PM on May 26, 2006
I don't think elpapacito is arguing "Jerking it in public is teh kewl" so much as he is arguing, "hey, it may not be good, but we don't need to teach our kids to think penis stroking = evil! and it would probably be better off to teach them, 'Well, everyone touches themselves for sexual pleasure but this guy did it in public which is probably not the smartest thing to do so you should maybe avoid people like him because he has some problems.'"
posted by papakwanz at 1:14 PM on May 26, 2006
posted by papakwanz at 1:14 PM on May 26, 2006
Woah, what? I don't know what thread you're reading but I certanly didn't see that.
You don't have allucinations maybe because you aren't a "delicate flower" smelling "vapors" or, maybe, because you don't attack the messenger when you can't attack the argument.
posted by elpapacito at 1:16 PM on May 26, 2006
You don't have allucinations maybe because you aren't a "delicate flower" smelling "vapors" or, maybe, because you don't attack the messenger when you can't attack the argument.
posted by elpapacito at 1:16 PM on May 26, 2006
I had a real laugh at this and figured it couldn't possibly be real for all kinds of reasons (the consistently off dubbing, the rediculous hidden camera footage, the insert of the horrified lady, the interview with the guy, Carl Monday, the dad, aforementioned privacy laws, etc.). Having read through the thread, it seems this is real, which frankly blows my mind.
It's too bad you didn't expand a little bit on the scenario OP - believe it or not, this was actually a huge controversy [legal PDF] in libraries a few years ago. Issues of filtering, privacy, and free access are of major concern in the profession and the debate over this issue can get pretty heated.
This obviously comes into conflict with people who see it as simply, "pornography should not be allowed in public libraries". As cell divide suggests upthread, the very fact that this is 'up for debate' results in people having a negative impression of public libraries. It's important is for people to realise public libraries are not in fact dens of circle jerkery, and that, by and large, public library staff do not tolerate the viewing of pornography on public terminals, let alone public masturbation in the library.
At libraries where I have worked, offenders may get off (heh) with a verbal warning for a 'first offense', but they will certainly get a letter of trespass if it becomes a recurring problem. Incidentally, in my experience, viewing of online porn in libraries is largely confined to furtive teenagers - either alone (usually male), or in pairs (usually female).
Oh, and BTW there are three things you can do that will instantly alert staff that you are, or soon will be, looking at online porn:
1. turning your monitor away from everyone else
2. looking guiltily around over your shoulder
3. shifting forward to 'obstruct' your screen
It's hilarious to me that people don't realise these actions are like honking a la cucaracha car horn and saying, "porn viewer over here!", but one should never underestimate the dire horniess of human beings. On one memorable occassion about a year ago or so, I approached a girl (who was maybe 15) to tell her she had to vacate her computer for another user. She turned around in sudden shock when she realised I was there, and actually held one palm out over her screen in a vain attempt to hide what she'd been looking at. It's amazing.
Seriously though, I would really call this a non-issue overall, and regard it as being either political fear-mongering or media ratings fodder (or both): 99% of us understand the invisible, unspoken codes of conduct in society. If people are so desperate as to sneak their porn peaks at public terminals, it's borne out of frustration and is hid as best as possible (if still quite obviously). This is not something I think is being flaunted in libraries, much as some other people would have you believe differently.
The very rare person that would openly view porn, or solicit others nearby to look at their porn (and yes, this does happen), is someone who, in my opinion, is acting out, has mental problems, or is actively inviting confrontation. These are the same kinds of individuals who might spend the day at the beach fully-clothed and taking lots of pictures - the library doesn't create them.
There's more I could say, but I have stuff to do.
posted by stinkycheese at 1:18 PM on May 26, 2006
It's too bad you didn't expand a little bit on the scenario OP - believe it or not, this was actually a huge controversy [legal PDF] in libraries a few years ago. Issues of filtering, privacy, and free access are of major concern in the profession and the debate over this issue can get pretty heated.
This obviously comes into conflict with people who see it as simply, "pornography should not be allowed in public libraries". As cell divide suggests upthread, the very fact that this is 'up for debate' results in people having a negative impression of public libraries. It's important is for people to realise public libraries are not in fact dens of circle jerkery, and that, by and large, public library staff do not tolerate the viewing of pornography on public terminals, let alone public masturbation in the library.
At libraries where I have worked, offenders may get off (heh) with a verbal warning for a 'first offense', but they will certainly get a letter of trespass if it becomes a recurring problem. Incidentally, in my experience, viewing of online porn in libraries is largely confined to furtive teenagers - either alone (usually male), or in pairs (usually female).
Oh, and BTW there are three things you can do that will instantly alert staff that you are, or soon will be, looking at online porn:
1. turning your monitor away from everyone else
2. looking guiltily around over your shoulder
3. shifting forward to 'obstruct' your screen
It's hilarious to me that people don't realise these actions are like honking a la cucaracha car horn and saying, "porn viewer over here!", but one should never underestimate the dire horniess of human beings. On one memorable occassion about a year ago or so, I approached a girl (who was maybe 15) to tell her she had to vacate her computer for another user. She turned around in sudden shock when she realised I was there, and actually held one palm out over her screen in a vain attempt to hide what she'd been looking at. It's amazing.
Seriously though, I would really call this a non-issue overall, and regard it as being either political fear-mongering or media ratings fodder (or both): 99% of us understand the invisible, unspoken codes of conduct in society. If people are so desperate as to sneak their porn peaks at public terminals, it's borne out of frustration and is hid as best as possible (if still quite obviously). This is not something I think is being flaunted in libraries, much as some other people would have you believe differently.
The very rare person that would openly view porn, or solicit others nearby to look at their porn (and yes, this does happen), is someone who, in my opinion, is acting out, has mental problems, or is actively inviting confrontation. These are the same kinds of individuals who might spend the day at the beach fully-clothed and taking lots of pictures - the library doesn't create them.
There's more I could say, but I have stuff to do.
posted by stinkycheese at 1:18 PM on May 26, 2006
I have little to add to this high-level discourse except to say this is why I'm glad I have my own computer.
I do occasionally use the reference section of my public library (I'll cop to being more of a book-buyer than a book-borrower), which gives me a great view of the ranks of sketchy men in sweatpants rubbing out loads to Russian mail-order bride sites. Yuck.
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 1:26 PM on May 26, 2006
I do occasionally use the reference section of my public library (I'll cop to being more of a book-buyer than a book-borrower), which gives me a great view of the ranks of sketchy men in sweatpants rubbing out loads to Russian mail-order bride sites. Yuck.
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 1:26 PM on May 26, 2006
Sexily-dressed women in a small Limpopo town have fallen prey to a group of teenage street kids that masturbate in public whenever they see them.
Vegetable vendor Mthavini Khoza said she condoned the boys' action.
"These boys are doing the right thing because their actions are likely to reduce the tendencies of wearing 3cm (sic) skirts in public and embarrass every woman," she said. "I wish they rape them one day so they may start respecting their bodies," Khoza said.
Indeed sexual mores may change from country to country, but misguided people like Khoza abund internationally.
posted by elpapacito at 1:35 PM on May 26, 2006
Vegetable vendor Mthavini Khoza said she condoned the boys' action.
"These boys are doing the right thing because their actions are likely to reduce the tendencies of wearing 3cm (sic) skirts in public and embarrass every woman," she said. "I wish they rape them one day so they may start respecting their bodies," Khoza said.
Indeed sexual mores may change from country to country, but misguided people like Khoza abund internationally.
posted by elpapacito at 1:35 PM on May 26, 2006
M.C. Lo-Carb! writes "ranks of sketchy men in sweatpants rubbing out loads" . . . is exactly how I envision my henchmen when I daydream about being a super-villain.
posted by Fezboy! at 1:38 PM on May 26, 2006
posted by Fezboy! at 1:38 PM on May 26, 2006
I've had brazen porn-viewers in the libraries where I've worked, and in the children's room, too! I currently have issues with students at the college library looking at sites with explicit pictures, and when I ask them to stop they look at me like I have my head screwed on backwards because I don't feel like looking at some girl's uh, inner beauty while I'm at work.
When this issue came up in library school, there were some who argued that we should provide private computer viewing booths, so people could get their jollies without bothering others. I was not one of them.
posted by Biblio at 1:39 PM on May 26, 2006
When this issue came up in library school, there were some who argued that we should provide private computer viewing booths, so people could get their jollies without bothering others. I was not one of them.
posted by Biblio at 1:39 PM on May 26, 2006
When this issue came up in library school, there were some who argued that we should provide private computer viewing booths, so people could get their jollies without bothering others. I was not one of them.
Well, it would be OK except for the "mess"
posted by delmoi at 2:01 PM on May 26, 2006
Well, it would be OK except for the "mess"
posted by delmoi at 2:01 PM on May 26, 2006
The saddest part about this whole film is that there was once a time, not very long ago, definitely within my living memory, when investigative journalism was about uncovering the sort of stories in which the powerful few fucked over the many. The people who did that kind of work often did it at some considerable risk to themselves and their reputations, but when they broke a story, we genuinely learned something that we didn't know before and we were all the better for it.
When this guy confronts a twenty two year old unemployed wanker -- who probably can't afford a computer and broadband, or a middle aged alcoholic, we don't learn a goddamned thing. Nothing changes, the wankers and the drunks will still be there tomorrow, and all he's done is put fear into the hearts of the simple minded, and pandering to our smug sense of self-righteousness.
When I was younger, journalism was a career that people aspired to. Today, people rate it alongside the law as a career for bottom-feeders and charlatans. This clip is a perfect illustration why.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 2:02 PM on May 26, 2006
When this guy confronts a twenty two year old unemployed wanker -- who probably can't afford a computer and broadband, or a middle aged alcoholic, we don't learn a goddamned thing. Nothing changes, the wankers and the drunks will still be there tomorrow, and all he's done is put fear into the hearts of the simple minded, and pandering to our smug sense of self-righteousness.
When I was younger, journalism was a career that people aspired to. Today, people rate it alongside the law as a career for bottom-feeders and charlatans. This clip is a perfect illustration why.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 2:02 PM on May 26, 2006
If just one parent had noticed this, they would be less likely to take their kids to the library
But did you see the hoards of little kids, merrily gambolling around our friend as he perused the porn, prod in paw?
No, neither did I.
Because he was trying to do it when nobody was about.
He wasn't a dangerous willy-waving exhibitionist. The guy was a sad inadequate who was seizing the opportunity to rub one out when he thought nobody was looking. That's why they needed the candid camera set-up.
Is there a man among us who doesn't admit to rubbing one out at the back of the class during a dull history lesson in his adolescent years?
I don't think so.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 2:12 PM on May 26, 2006
But did you see the hoards of little kids, merrily gambolling around our friend as he perused the porn, prod in paw?
No, neither did I.
Because he was trying to do it when nobody was about.
He wasn't a dangerous willy-waving exhibitionist. The guy was a sad inadequate who was seizing the opportunity to rub one out when he thought nobody was looking. That's why they needed the candid camera set-up.
Is there a man among us who doesn't admit to rubbing one out at the back of the class during a dull history lesson in his adolescent years?
I don't think so.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 2:12 PM on May 26, 2006
Wait a sec! There's *porn* on the internet? Why didn't you guys tell me...
posted by MarshallPoe at 2:27 PM on May 26, 2006
posted by MarshallPoe at 2:27 PM on May 26, 2006
"That's how my parents taught me about the birds and the bees."
"Daddy, what's that man doing over there?"
"Well, honey, he's relieving his sexual tension in a public place. Touching yourself in public is generally a bad idea, and frowned upon by society."
posted by graventy at 2:32 PM on May 26, 2006
"Daddy, what's that man doing over there?"
"Well, honey, he's relieving his sexual tension in a public place. Touching yourself in public is generally a bad idea, and frowned upon by society."
posted by graventy at 2:32 PM on May 26, 2006
I don't understand why the guy didn't just, you know, shut up or run away. Why continue speaking to the reporter?
posted by picea at 3:55 PM EST on May 26 [+fave] [!]
Because he's probably already deeply ashamed about it and thinks he deserves it, and mortified that he's being publicly humilaitated and Carl Monday is basically acting out his own form of compulsive wankery (and letting every insecure righteous piece of shit feel superior to some confused kid who obviously needs some help with getting past being a moronic adolescent ...as we all did at one time I might add). It's funny he doesn't even realize how he's implicating himself. He's not an American, he's a sadistic asswipe. The Father should've gotten his rifle...
I won't even get started on what this shit does for library systems being able to get proper funding...
posted by Skygazer at 2:51 PM on May 26, 2006
posted by picea at 3:55 PM EST on May 26 [+fave] [!]
Because he's probably already deeply ashamed about it and thinks he deserves it, and mortified that he's being publicly humilaitated and Carl Monday is basically acting out his own form of compulsive wankery (and letting every insecure righteous piece of shit feel superior to some confused kid who obviously needs some help with getting past being a moronic adolescent ...as we all did at one time I might add). It's funny he doesn't even realize how he's implicating himself. He's not an American, he's a sadistic asswipe. The Father should've gotten his rifle...
I won't even get started on what this shit does for library systems being able to get proper funding...
posted by Skygazer at 2:51 PM on May 26, 2006
All true, Skygazer.
And Gamblor--I, too, shall go out on a limb and say that I would rather have my grandma, niece, and sweet little innocent cousins run into that poor schmo who wanks off at the library than to have them encounter Carl Monday. The wanker is pitiful but the journalist is just nasty.
posted by leftcoastbob at 2:58 PM on May 26, 2006
And Gamblor--I, too, shall go out on a limb and say that I would rather have my grandma, niece, and sweet little innocent cousins run into that poor schmo who wanks off at the library than to have them encounter Carl Monday. The wanker is pitiful but the journalist is just nasty.
posted by leftcoastbob at 2:58 PM on May 26, 2006
I'm so late to this thread. The YouTube link is down - removed at the request of WKYC. Amongst my friends and family here in Cleveland, we often threaten to call Carl Monday when things aren't going our way. He's been a joke in this town for as long as I can remember. But why I really really want to see this story is because my first job ever was at a Cuyahoga County Public Library branch, and about three weeks into the job (I was 15 at the time), I saw a guy wanking in the sci-fi aisle*. I just want to know if it's the same dude. So if anyone knows of another link, please post it.
*No. I don't know what book he was reading. That's always the first question people ask me, and I was way too traumatized to look at the book.
posted by ferociouskitty at 3:03 PM on May 26, 2006
*No. I don't know what book he was reading. That's always the first question people ask me, and I was way too traumatized to look at the book.
posted by ferociouskitty at 3:03 PM on May 26, 2006
Here's the station's own link to the video.
Best line: "...just across the room from the children's section!" In other words, he couldn't have been any farther from the children's section and still be in the building.
posted by evilcolonel at 3:35 PM on May 26, 2006
Best line: "...just across the room from the children's section!" In other words, he couldn't have been any farther from the children's section and still be in the building.
posted by evilcolonel at 3:35 PM on May 26, 2006
he's conducting video lynchings for the entertainment and outrage of the complacent, self-righteous viewer at home ... the masturbator is a slight detriment to our society ... the reporter, acting as a public judge, jury and executioner wielding the axe of humiliation is corroding society with a form of shame porn, embarrassing one person for the amusement of people who want to feel superior to someone, while reinforcing their paranoia about "those people"
posted by pyramid termite at 9:47 AM PST on May 26
I goof on you a lot, pt, but this is the best, most succinct, most dead-on comment in the thread.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 3:37 PM on May 26, 2006
posted by pyramid termite at 9:47 AM PST on May 26
I goof on you a lot, pt, but this is the best, most succinct, most dead-on comment in the thread.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 3:37 PM on May 26, 2006
Aha. Not the same guy as I saw. If Carl Monday wants a real story, he needs to check out what happens in those little rooms the books from the book drop go into. WOO baby!
posted by ferociouskitty at 3:59 PM on May 26, 2006
posted by ferociouskitty at 3:59 PM on May 26, 2006
Suggested further journalism topic so Carl Monday can make fun of losers.
1) Go into a grocery store and film what really fat people buy. Make fun of their purchases and ask probing questions like "when you eat that whole bag of potato chips in one sitting how long does it take"?
2) Find some guys panhandling near liquor stores. Give each $10, criticize their purchaces, and try to film whether they pass out, vomit, or both.
posted by MonkeySaltedNuts at 4:05 PM on May 26, 2006
1) Go into a grocery store and film what really fat people buy. Make fun of their purchases and ask probing questions like "when you eat that whole bag of potato chips in one sitting how long does it take"?
2) Find some guys panhandling near liquor stores. Give each $10, criticize their purchaces, and try to film whether they pass out, vomit, or both.
posted by MonkeySaltedNuts at 4:05 PM on May 26, 2006
Is there a man among us who doesn't admit to rubbing one out at the back of the class during a dull history lesson in his adolescent years?
Whoa whoa WHOA!!!
I have *never* stroked it during history class!
Now, during health class...
posted by papakwanz at 4:32 PM on May 26, 2006
Whoa whoa WHOA!!!
I have *never* stroked it during history class!
Now, during health class...
posted by papakwanz at 4:32 PM on May 26, 2006
More like math class! Am I right?
posted by ludwig_van at 4:59 PM on May 26, 2006
posted by ludwig_van at 4:59 PM on May 26, 2006
Those curvy integral signs...
posted by sonofsamiam at 5:13 PM on May 26, 2006
posted by sonofsamiam at 5:13 PM on May 26, 2006
Thank God for Americans like Carl Monday. Without them, it would be Keyboard Bukkake at our Public Libraries.
posted by Tommy Gnosis at 7:07 PM on May 26, 2006
posted by Tommy Gnosis at 7:07 PM on May 26, 2006
Nah, Jimmy, there weren't any mirrors in shop class...
All that machinery...
posted by disclaimer at 7:10 PM on May 26, 2006
All that machinery...
posted by disclaimer at 7:10 PM on May 26, 2006
Is there a man among us who doesn't admit to rubbing one out at the back of the class during a dull history lesson in his adolescent years?
I was one of those nerds who usually sat near the front of the class. Damn it.
posted by cortex at 9:57 PM on May 26, 2006
I was one of those nerds who usually sat near the front of the class. Damn it.
posted by cortex at 9:57 PM on May 26, 2006
After 'America's Dumbest Criminals', perhaps it's time for 'America's Dumbest Wankers'?
And is it just me (Or my Canadianess), but did this break a LOT of privacy laws? Hidden cameras in public areas, not pixellating the faces of people who I doubt signed a waiver... etc.
No Alvy you're not the only one to wonder, but I have a not so wild theory: what if it's all staged?
That's what it looked like to me. Like it was all a script, with people drafted to act a part.
How did this joke of a reporter get to put hidden cameras in the library in the first place?
How did he get to interview exactly the same guy caught on camera?
Ok you can explain that with the wanker's stupidity alone, but I don't know, he just didn't sound genuine, he also didnt' look quite the same as the guy on camera.
Most of all, how the hell did the reporter get him from the library to the parents' house?
Other things that looked very staged: the "oh my god that's horrible" from the woman outside the library sounded so much like she'd been waiting for a cue to say that line; the psycho 'I'm a combat veteran' dad going nuts threatening the reporter and hitting his car... I don't know, maybe it's just my disbelief that there can be people that stupid, but I cannot imagine the tv putting this out without getting a waiver for consent, and I cannot imagine the wanker and his parents signing a waiver for behaviour that, if not acted but genuine, could be reported to police instead of being exploited for a cheap crap sensationalistic 'libraries are dangerous!' piece.
Call me a cynic, but I don't believe it was all a spontaneous result of 'investigative reporting', even aside from the tragedy that this can get called investigative reporting at all.
(Then again, maybe it's just that people can look like they're acting when they know they're being interviewed for tv, because they love the attention no matter how stupid it makes them look? I don't know. I've just never seen anything looking this fake and ridiculously bombastic. Then again II, I am not familiar with local news reporting in the US... ).
posted by funambulist at 7:16 AM on May 27, 2006
And is it just me (Or my Canadianess), but did this break a LOT of privacy laws? Hidden cameras in public areas, not pixellating the faces of people who I doubt signed a waiver... etc.
No Alvy you're not the only one to wonder, but I have a not so wild theory: what if it's all staged?
That's what it looked like to me. Like it was all a script, with people drafted to act a part.
How did this joke of a reporter get to put hidden cameras in the library in the first place?
How did he get to interview exactly the same guy caught on camera?
Ok you can explain that with the wanker's stupidity alone, but I don't know, he just didn't sound genuine, he also didnt' look quite the same as the guy on camera.
Most of all, how the hell did the reporter get him from the library to the parents' house?
Other things that looked very staged: the "oh my god that's horrible" from the woman outside the library sounded so much like she'd been waiting for a cue to say that line; the psycho 'I'm a combat veteran' dad going nuts threatening the reporter and hitting his car... I don't know, maybe it's just my disbelief that there can be people that stupid, but I cannot imagine the tv putting this out without getting a waiver for consent, and I cannot imagine the wanker and his parents signing a waiver for behaviour that, if not acted but genuine, could be reported to police instead of being exploited for a cheap crap sensationalistic 'libraries are dangerous!' piece.
Call me a cynic, but I don't believe it was all a spontaneous result of 'investigative reporting', even aside from the tragedy that this can get called investigative reporting at all.
(Then again, maybe it's just that people can look like they're acting when they know they're being interviewed for tv, because they love the attention no matter how stupid it makes them look? I don't know. I've just never seen anything looking this fake and ridiculously bombastic. Then again II, I am not familiar with local news reporting in the US... ).
posted by funambulist at 7:16 AM on May 27, 2006
Yeah, if you watch it again, and think about it critically, the whole thing falls apart. I mean, why the hell would the library agree to have a local news reporter secretly film patrons? And if they didn't agree, how could this be shown?
It really doesn't make sense at all.
posted by stinkycheese at 9:15 AM on May 27, 2006
It really doesn't make sense at all.
posted by stinkycheese at 9:15 AM on May 27, 2006
I assumed that there was a mole at the library who told Monday about the wanking and then alerted him when the wanker showed up.
And why would the library (a public building) need to agree to having something secretly shot in the public area, stinkycheese?
posted by leftcoastbob at 9:44 AM on May 27, 2006
And why would the library (a public building) need to agree to having something secretly shot in the public area, stinkycheese?
posted by leftcoastbob at 9:44 AM on May 27, 2006
He's baaaaaaack! Carl Monday continues his endless expose of sexual predators in libraries.
Meanwhile, the poor bastard from the original video was arrested.
posted by CunningLinguist at 12:13 PM on June 1, 2006
Meanwhile, the poor bastard from the original video was arrested.
posted by CunningLinguist at 12:13 PM on June 1, 2006
Oh well, there goes my 'staged' theory.
So, the public libraries in the US are teeming with porn addicts, serial masturbators, pedos, gropers and rapists? For real? Parents should think twice about dropping off their kids to the library at all... But what about schools? Playgrounds? The shopping mall? The game arcade? Is there anywhere our poor kids can be safe?!?
*goes into hysterical scaremongering-induced fit, locks up daughter in basement, throws away key, gets arrested after a week for child abuse, sues Carl Monday for damages*
posted by funambulist at 12:47 PM on June 1, 2006
So, the public libraries in the US are teeming with porn addicts, serial masturbators, pedos, gropers and rapists? For real? Parents should think twice about dropping off their kids to the library at all... But what about schools? Playgrounds? The shopping mall? The game arcade? Is there anywhere our poor kids can be safe?!?
*goes into hysterical scaremongering-induced fit, locks up daughter in basement, throws away key, gets arrested after a week for child abuse, sues Carl Monday for damages*
posted by funambulist at 12:47 PM on June 1, 2006
So, the public libraries in the US are teeming with porn addicts, serial masturbators, pedos, gropers and rapists?
Based on my time working in a pubic (hee!) library, I would say yes, yes, no, no, no, respectively.
Also, lots of people who poop in non-standard pooping places.
posted by sonofsamiam at 12:50 PM on June 1, 2006
Based on my time working in a pubic (hee!) library, I would say yes, yes, no, no, no, respectively.
Also, lots of people who poop in non-standard pooping places.
posted by sonofsamiam at 12:50 PM on June 1, 2006
leftcoastbob: I assumed that there was a mole at the library who told Monday about the wanking and then alerted him when the wanker showed up.
And why would the library (a public building) need to agree to having something secretly shot in the public area, stinkycheese?
Maybe things are different in the States, I've no idea. But at the libraries I've worked at in Canada, you need to get permission from anyone you're photographing. That means asking permission from each person. So, again, there is no way this hidden camera crap would work.
The more I think about this, the more my brain hurts. Did the library staff know there was a hidden camera? If not, I would've thought they might have something to say about that, esp. as this footage has apparently been used to arrest one of their patrons.
"The tape that you supplied clearly shows him engaged in a sex act," Berea Police Lt. Gary Black said. "It was pretty obvious to a normal viewer, someone that could have been there It happened to be your camerman that witnessed it and got it on tape."
I would say it shows nothing of the kind. "pretty obvious to a normal viewer" - WTF? And Lt. Black refers to a 'cameraman', as opposed to a hidden camera. So which is it? More holes than swiss cheese here IMO.
posted by stinkycheese at 2:58 PM on June 1, 2006
And why would the library (a public building) need to agree to having something secretly shot in the public area, stinkycheese?
Maybe things are different in the States, I've no idea. But at the libraries I've worked at in Canada, you need to get permission from anyone you're photographing. That means asking permission from each person. So, again, there is no way this hidden camera crap would work.
The more I think about this, the more my brain hurts. Did the library staff know there was a hidden camera? If not, I would've thought they might have something to say about that, esp. as this footage has apparently been used to arrest one of their patrons.
"The tape that you supplied clearly shows him engaged in a sex act," Berea Police Lt. Gary Black said. "It was pretty obvious to a normal viewer, someone that could have been there It happened to be your camerman that witnessed it and got it on tape."
I would say it shows nothing of the kind. "pretty obvious to a normal viewer" - WTF? And Lt. Black refers to a 'cameraman', as opposed to a hidden camera. So which is it? More holes than swiss cheese here IMO.
posted by stinkycheese at 2:58 PM on June 1, 2006
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posted by mathowie at 7:31 AM on May 26, 2006 [1 favorite]