On simple human decency
June 8, 2006 12:52 AM Subscribe
Am I allowed to write that I would like to hunt down George W. Bush, the president of the United States, and kill him with my bare hands?
Maybe just impeachment then
Maybe just impeachment then
Nice piece of writing. Reads surprisingly like a longform blog post, which I suppose says volumes about publishing and the web and weblogs and probably something with a '2.0' in it, but it's a blog post I wish I'd written.
You know, if I weren't on this goddamned site all the goddamned time.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 1:39 AM on June 8, 2006
You know, if I weren't on this goddamned site all the goddamned time.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 1:39 AM on June 8, 2006
You know, I am genuinely amazed that no one _has_ attempted to assassinate him.
posted by Pseudoephedrine at 1:53 AM on June 8, 2006
posted by Pseudoephedrine at 1:53 AM on June 8, 2006
Well, the fanatics are mostly on his side.
posted by uncle harold at 2:03 AM on June 8, 2006
posted by uncle harold at 2:03 AM on June 8, 2006
Today, whenever someone seriously considers assassinating the president they never get around to it. They end up posting on gun enthusiast forums and letting another day go to waste. Why? Because they expect someone else to do it, or that someone else will do it better. Americans have simply grown too lazy.
posted by TwelveTwo at 2:07 AM on June 8, 2006
posted by TwelveTwo at 2:07 AM on June 8, 2006
My advice:
1) Don't mess your nails — let him do the hard work. Send over a jumbo tin of POTUS Brand Pretzels balanced on a Segway.
2) Don't overlook Tweedledee. Buy Big Dick a subscription to the Fettuccine Alfredo of the Week Club.
Then we'll deal with Hastert....
posted by rob511 at 2:15 AM on June 8, 2006
1) Don't mess your nails — let him do the hard work. Send over a jumbo tin of POTUS Brand Pretzels balanced on a Segway.
2) Don't overlook Tweedledee. Buy Big Dick a subscription to the Fettuccine Alfredo of the Week Club.
Then we'll deal with Hastert....
posted by rob511 at 2:15 AM on June 8, 2006
How about we stick all the Mefi user numbers into a hat, and who ever gets picked has to go assassinate the President?
posted by Orange Goblin at 2:19 AM on June 8, 2006
posted by Orange Goblin at 2:19 AM on June 8, 2006
Given the comedy of the universe, I think we all knew whose number would be picked.
posted by TwelveTwo at 2:29 AM on June 8, 2006
posted by TwelveTwo at 2:29 AM on June 8, 2006
Pseudoephedrine - Someone has technically attempted to assassinate him, but had all the grace of a sack of potatoes crashing down a flight of stairs. It was in Georgia (the one by Russia, not by Florida). Here's a link.
posted by Clamwacker at 3:03 AM on June 8, 2006
posted by Clamwacker at 3:03 AM on June 8, 2006
Remember the good old days, when lunatics could actually get close enough to the White House to fire shots? 9/11 changed everything.
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:27 AM on June 8, 2006
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:27 AM on June 8, 2006
There's an askmefi question in here somewhere... Just need the stones to post it.
posted by slimepuppy at 4:37 AM on June 8, 2006
posted by slimepuppy at 4:37 AM on June 8, 2006
The M107 .50-caliber long range rifle is semi-automatic and is being fielded to infantry soldiers. It can engage targets to 2,000 meters with precision.
what.
posted by exlotuseater at 4:37 AM on June 8, 2006
what.
posted by exlotuseater at 4:37 AM on June 8, 2006
You guys be sure to send us a postcard from Gitmo.
posted by Optamystic at 4:46 AM on June 8, 2006
posted by Optamystic at 4:46 AM on June 8, 2006
"I would like to kidnap George W. Bush and fly him to a prison in some faraway land where his ‘rights’ are no longer an issue, there to put a bag over his head and make him stand for hours on one leg while I defecate on his New Testament before chaining his arms to the ceiling until he dies of a heart attack"
Oh for fuck's sake. Sure, Bush has it coming, but not from you, Ben Metcalf. Instead of fantasizing about torture, how about we concentrate on freeing the prisoners at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo?
posted by ryanrs at 5:06 AM on June 8, 2006
Oh for fuck's sake. Sure, Bush has it coming, but not from you, Ben Metcalf. Instead of fantasizing about torture, how about we concentrate on freeing the prisoners at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo?
posted by ryanrs at 5:06 AM on June 8, 2006
is it wrong that i look at that link exlotuseater posted and think "hmmmm... yes... 2km... should be doable, surely?" ?
posted by slater at 5:10 AM on June 8, 2006
posted by slater at 5:10 AM on June 8, 2006
The murder stuff is crazy talk, but I liked this sentence:
"I hardly mean to imply that George W. Bush is a delusional party hack whose aim is to rob and mislead us for the benefit of his friends. That idea deserves to be stated outright: George W. Bush is a delusional party hack whose aim is to rob and mislead us for the benefit of his friends."
posted by OmieWise at 5:17 AM on June 8, 2006
"I hardly mean to imply that George W. Bush is a delusional party hack whose aim is to rob and mislead us for the benefit of his friends. That idea deserves to be stated outright: George W. Bush is a delusional party hack whose aim is to rob and mislead us for the benefit of his friends."
posted by OmieWise at 5:17 AM on June 8, 2006
That absolutely made my morning.
The real problem, though, with assassination is that, usually, it doesn't do a damn bit of good. It surely wouldn't improve the situation to off Bush. Justice would be served, yes. Improve anything, far from it. It'd get much worse.
(Haven't I written this before?) That's why the people that really do try to assassinate Presidents and the like are nutcases. It's not a rational decision, it's something else.
What's really interesting, and what that Metcalf implies, is that while in any given single example assassinating a President is likely to make things much worse rather than better, the actual threat, the real possibility of an assassination of a President, would act as a brake on some of their worst behavior. So, ironically, what might be best is if Presidents truly lived in fear of the risk.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 5:22 AM on June 8, 2006
The real problem, though, with assassination is that, usually, it doesn't do a damn bit of good. It surely wouldn't improve the situation to off Bush. Justice would be served, yes. Improve anything, far from it. It'd get much worse.
(Haven't I written this before?) That's why the people that really do try to assassinate Presidents and the like are nutcases. It's not a rational decision, it's something else.
What's really interesting, and what that Metcalf implies, is that while in any given single example assassinating a President is likely to make things much worse rather than better, the actual threat, the real possibility of an assassination of a President, would act as a brake on some of their worst behavior. So, ironically, what might be best is if Presidents truly lived in fear of the risk.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 5:22 AM on June 8, 2006
Today, whenever someone seriously considers assassinating the president they never get around to it. They end up posting on gun enthusiast forums and letting another day go to waste. Why? Because they expect someone else to do it, or that someone else will do it better. Americans have simply grown too lazy.
Assassination would be the lazy route. What would be hard work would be actually educating and motivating people to take part in their democracy so that it's more effective.
posted by orange swan at 5:36 AM on June 8, 2006
Assassination would be the lazy route. What would be hard work would be actually educating and motivating people to take part in their democracy so that it's more effective.
posted by orange swan at 5:36 AM on June 8, 2006
Metafilter is getting more and more like DU everyday. Too bad. (sigh)
posted by tadellin at 5:39 AM on June 8, 2006
posted by tadellin at 5:39 AM on June 8, 2006
I don't know what DU is, but I agree.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 5:43 AM on June 8, 2006
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 5:43 AM on June 8, 2006
Metafilter is getting more and more like DU everyday
Depleted Uranium?
posted by spazzm at 5:46 AM on June 8, 2006
Depleted Uranium?
posted by spazzm at 5:46 AM on June 8, 2006
DEPLETED URANIUM!!!!111eleventy
posted by exlotuseater at 5:46 AM on June 8, 2006
posted by exlotuseater at 5:46 AM on June 8, 2006
No, you don't get to say that. You can't say it about Dubya, and you can't say it about your next door neighbor. It's a threat. It's against the law to threaten people. It's especially against the law to threaten elected (sic) representatives of the government.
So, have you called your Senator, House Rep., state representatives, local officials today? Have you made it clear that you hate what's happening to our country and you want them to stop voting for this bullshit? Did you vote in 2004? Did you vote for fucking Nader in 2000?
Dick Fucking Cheney is next in line. He is evil, heartless, ruthless, greedy and vindictive. He makes Dubya look like a choirboy. For the sake of all that is good in the world, let's not threaten Dubya's life.
posted by theora55 at 5:50 AM on June 8, 2006
So, have you called your Senator, House Rep., state representatives, local officials today? Have you made it clear that you hate what's happening to our country and you want them to stop voting for this bullshit? Did you vote in 2004? Did you vote for fucking Nader in 2000?
Dick Fucking Cheney is next in line. He is evil, heartless, ruthless, greedy and vindictive. He makes Dubya look like a choirboy. For the sake of all that is good in the world, let's not threaten Dubya's life.
posted by theora55 at 5:50 AM on June 8, 2006
How about if one were to say, "I will hunt down that piece of shit president, George W Bush, and pinch him sooo hard"?
How about, "George W Bush must be executed by lethal injection under the authority of law in order to preserve liberty and democracy"?
For me, I think George W Bush deserves a good swift kick to the balls. (For legal purposes: 1) what I think someone might deserve and what I am motivated and ethically inclined to act out are two completely separate things - and this qualification shouldn't be construed to mean I am motivated to do worse; 2) the statement is not meant to advocate such action by a third party.)
posted by effwerd at 5:57 AM on June 8, 2006
How about, "George W Bush must be executed by lethal injection under the authority of law in order to preserve liberty and democracy"?
For me, I think George W Bush deserves a good swift kick to the balls. (For legal purposes: 1) what I think someone might deserve and what I am motivated and ethically inclined to act out are two completely separate things - and this qualification shouldn't be construed to mean I am motivated to do worse; 2) the statement is not meant to advocate such action by a third party.)
posted by effwerd at 5:57 AM on June 8, 2006
The M107 ... can engage targets to 2,000 meters with precision
Pardon my continuing the derail, but for all you 101st Fighting Keyboarders out there, it ain't nearly that simple. I've gotten on paper at 1200 yds, just to see if I could, with iron sights one time with a really great rifle when I was having my best day ever, range-wise. It takes an awful lot of practice and a lot of persnickety stuff being just exactly right to be achieve what are probably the upper limits of the weapon's performance envelope. (fred_ashmore or maybe Smedleyman or somebody else with more trigger time than I have could probably comment more knowledgeably.)
And, to get back on topic, W's gone in 2009 anyhow, and history will have the last laugh. Meanwhile, mocking derision serves pretty well and no Secret Service agents need call.
posted by pax digita at 6:25 AM on June 8, 2006
Pardon my continuing the derail, but for all you 101st Fighting Keyboarders out there, it ain't nearly that simple. I've gotten on paper at 1200 yds, just to see if I could, with iron sights one time with a really great rifle when I was having my best day ever, range-wise. It takes an awful lot of practice and a lot of persnickety stuff being just exactly right to be achieve what are probably the upper limits of the weapon's performance envelope. (fred_ashmore or maybe Smedleyman or somebody else with more trigger time than I have could probably comment more knowledgeably.)
And, to get back on topic, W's gone in 2009 anyhow, and history will have the last laugh. Meanwhile, mocking derision serves pretty well and no Secret Service agents need call.
posted by pax digita at 6:25 AM on June 8, 2006
Will no one rid me of this meddlesome president?
¡Hola, NSA!
Impeach him first, then Bush, or both at the same time.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:34 AM on June 8, 2006
Hi to the FBI. Hi to the CIA.
¡Hola, NSA!
Dick Fucking Cheney is next in line.
Impeach him first, then Bush, or both at the same time.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:34 AM on June 8, 2006
It's a threat.
Nonsense. 'I will pull your nipples until you scream' is a threat (or a promise). 'I'd like to pull your nipples until you scream' is not.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:35 AM on June 8, 2006
Nonsense. 'I will pull your nipples until you scream' is a threat (or a promise). 'I'd like to pull your nipples until you scream' is not.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:35 AM on June 8, 2006
Periodic revolution is necessary for a stable democracy.
posted by Eideteker at 6:37 AM on June 8, 2006
posted by Eideteker at 6:37 AM on June 8, 2006
So, ironically, what might be best is if Presidents truly lived in fear of the risk.
Ah!! Play the fear card right back at him! Unfortunately, the bumper sticker on his ranch Ford pickup says, "Ain't Skeered!"
posted by Balisong at 6:40 AM on June 8, 2006
Ah!! Play the fear card right back at him! Unfortunately, the bumper sticker on his ranch Ford pickup says, "Ain't Skeered!"
posted by Balisong at 6:40 AM on June 8, 2006
I would like to posit that our President's shouldn't be as protected as they are. The one thing that always kept Presidents in the past from ignoring the will of the people was the fear of death. I don't believe modern Presidents have that fear because they rarely have contact with a public that has not been vetted, searched and now with this president - had a full background check that sometimes includes the signing of a loyalty oath. I would like to do away with the Secret Service, let them take the chances with the wackjobs out there with the rest of us. In the very least it will prohibit cowards like George Bush and Dick Cheney from seeking high office.
posted by any major dude at 6:41 AM on June 8, 2006
posted by any major dude at 6:41 AM on June 8, 2006
Let me assure the posters up thread that you cannot get within 2 km of the President of the United States and sucessfully deploy a .50 rifle.
Much as I hate Bush, he should be protected. Only fools want the anarchy that comes with democracy threatened by violence. We want more democracy not less. Violence against government figures leads to police states in very short order.
posted by Ironmouth at 6:48 AM on June 8, 2006
Much as I hate Bush, he should be protected. Only fools want the anarchy that comes with democracy threatened by violence. We want more democracy not less. Violence against government figures leads to police states in very short order.
posted by Ironmouth at 6:48 AM on June 8, 2006
I think George W. Bush needs a blow job.
Hell, I'll volunteer. I will take one on the chin for my country.
posted by DragonBoy at 6:49 AM on June 8, 2006
Hell, I'll volunteer. I will take one on the chin for my country.
posted by DragonBoy at 6:49 AM on June 8, 2006
tadellin, I think its the population of the entire U.S. that's getting more like DU every day.
posted by Ironmouth at 6:50 AM on June 8, 2006
posted by Ironmouth at 6:50 AM on June 8, 2006
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of tyrants.
-Thomas Jefferson
Also:
Caesar had his Brutus, Charles the First his Cromwell; and George the Third ["Treason!"] — may profit by their example. If this be treason, make the most of it.
- Patrick Henry Speech on the Stamp Act, Virginia House of Burgesses
posted by RussHy at 6:55 AM on June 8, 2006
-Thomas Jefferson
Also:
Caesar had his Brutus, Charles the First his Cromwell; and George the Third ["Treason!"] — may profit by their example. If this be treason, make the most of it.
- Patrick Henry Speech on the Stamp Act, Virginia House of Burgesses
posted by RussHy at 6:55 AM on June 8, 2006
Ironmouth wrote:
Only fools want the anarchy that comes with democracy threatened by violence.
What does that statement mean? Democracy is the will of the people, so if the will of the people is served the President should have nothing to worry about. If a President cannot convince his citizens why his policies will benefit all Americans in the long run then he shouldn't be President.
Should the President be protect from the lone psycho like Travis Bickle? Yes. Should he be guarded and protected from looking directly into the eyes of a derisive public who disagree strongly with his policies. Absolutely not and that is what this President has become. He should have to answer the public and explain why his policies make sense.
posted by any major dude at 7:16 AM on June 8, 2006
Only fools want the anarchy that comes with democracy threatened by violence.
What does that statement mean? Democracy is the will of the people, so if the will of the people is served the President should have nothing to worry about. If a President cannot convince his citizens why his policies will benefit all Americans in the long run then he shouldn't be President.
Should the President be protect from the lone psycho like Travis Bickle? Yes. Should he be guarded and protected from looking directly into the eyes of a derisive public who disagree strongly with his policies. Absolutely not and that is what this President has become. He should have to answer the public and explain why his policies make sense.
posted by any major dude at 7:16 AM on June 8, 2006
amd - You make the assumption, and this is quite explicit in your first comment, that assassination somehow expresses the will of the people. That isn't so. Assassination expresses the will of a person. I don't think that the fear of death was ever linked to following "the will of the people" as you assume it was. There are always looneys around.
Take Clinton, his poll numbers were quite high, but there were a ton of right wing whack-jobs all through his Presidency who probably fantasized about killing him.
I keep wanting to write something more, but frankly I don't understand well enough why you think it's logically acceptable to collapse the fear of death and following the will of the people. (Not morally acceptable, I literally don't understand your argument.)
posted by OmieWise at 7:29 AM on June 8, 2006
Take Clinton, his poll numbers were quite high, but there were a ton of right wing whack-jobs all through his Presidency who probably fantasized about killing him.
I keep wanting to write something more, but frankly I don't understand well enough why you think it's logically acceptable to collapse the fear of death and following the will of the people. (Not morally acceptable, I literally don't understand your argument.)
posted by OmieWise at 7:29 AM on June 8, 2006
EB is, of course, right:
The real problem, though, with assassination is that, usually, it doesn't do a damn bit of good.
But I do like the thought of the man squirming in fear. He reminds me of Tsar Alexander II, about whom I was just reading in Kropotkin's wonderful memoirs (Kropotkin is graduating from the prestigious Corps of Pages):
posted by languagehat at 7:31 AM on June 8, 2006 [1 favorite]
The real problem, though, with assassination is that, usually, it doesn't do a damn bit of good.
But I do like the thought of the man squirming in fear. He reminds me of Tsar Alexander II, about whom I was just reading in Kropotkin's wonderful memoirs (Kropotkin is graduating from the prestigious Corps of Pages):
A fortnight later, on June 13 [1862], the time which we pages and cadets had so long looked for came at last. The Emperor gave us a sort of military examination in all kinds of evolutions, — during which we commanded the companies, and I paraded on a horse before the battalion, — and we were promoted to be officers.Alexander was assassinated in 1881 (Kropotkin describes it here), and it didn't do Russia a bit of good.
When the parade was over, Alexander II. loudly called out, "The promoted officers to me!" and we gathered round him. He remained on horseback.
Here I saw him in a quite new light. The man who the next year appeared in the role of a bloodthirsty and vindictive suppressor of the insurrection in Poland rose now, full size, before my eyes, in the speech he addressed to us.
He began in a quiet tone. "I congratulate you: you are officers." He spoke about military duty and loyalty as they are usually spoken of on such occasions. "But if any one of you," he went on, distinctly shouting out every word, his face suddenly contorted with anger, — "but if any one of you — which God preserve you from — should under any circumstances prove disloyal to the Tsar, the throne, and the fatherland, take heed of what I say, — he will be treated with all the se-veri-ty of the laws, without the slightest com-mi-se-ra-tion!"
His voice failed; his face was peevish, full of that expression of blind rage which I saw in my childhood on the faces of landlords when they threatened their serfs "to skin them under the rods." He violently spurred his horse, and rode out of our circle. Next morning, the 14th of June, by his orders, three officers were shot at Módlin in Poland, and one soldier, Szur by name, was killed under the rods.
"Reaction, full speed backwards," I said to myself, as we made our way back to the Corps.
posted by languagehat at 7:31 AM on June 8, 2006 [1 favorite]
that's all we need is for someone to make a martyr out of bush ... look at the effects of the jfk assassination on american society and ask yourself if this would really be a good thing for the country
posted by pyramid termite at 7:44 AM on June 8, 2006
posted by pyramid termite at 7:44 AM on June 8, 2006
Thanks so much for those comments, languagehat.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 7:44 AM on June 8, 2006
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 7:44 AM on June 8, 2006
I think if you happen to be a mesquite bush, you're just stopping systemic genocide. Nothing wrong with that.
posted by trondant at 7:45 AM on June 8, 2006
posted by trondant at 7:45 AM on June 8, 2006
Lethal injection my ass. The gallows is the only way for a traitorous federal official to go. Build 'em high on the Mall. Yes, that's plural. You know there are more than one of them.
posted by Goofyy at 8:01 AM on June 8, 2006
posted by Goofyy at 8:01 AM on June 8, 2006
I am genuinely amazed that no one _has_ attempted to assassinate him
Someone threw a grenade at him in Georgia. But it didn't go off.
Bush's supporters claimed this as proof that God has extended his protection to our Dear Leader.
I think the grenade didn't go off because God wants George W. Bush to die in prison.
posted by wfrgms at 8:09 AM on June 8, 2006
Someone threw a grenade at him in Georgia. But it didn't go off.
Bush's supporters claimed this as proof that God has extended his protection to our Dear Leader.
I think the grenade didn't go off because God wants George W. Bush to die in prison.
posted by wfrgms at 8:09 AM on June 8, 2006
DU is Democratic Underground, basically a liberal version of FreeRepublic.
posted by tadellin at 8:30 AM on June 8, 2006
posted by tadellin at 8:30 AM on June 8, 2006
basically a liberalDemocrat version of FreeRepublic.
posted by sonofsamiam at 8:35 AM on June 8, 2006
posted by sonofsamiam at 8:35 AM on June 8, 2006
OmieWise - its a bit complicated but it stems from the belief that all power is corruptable. So we need as many devices as possible to give those leaders second thoughts about becoming corrupt. Those checks and balances include the Congress and the Courts (both have become somewhat of a rubber stamp for this president), The fourth estate - journalists (children chasing soccer balls - hey what does the president want us to discuss this week? Gay marriage - check - everything else goes on the backburner), protest is next - but the government routinely ignores the first amendment right to assemble these days witholding permits claiming it's a security risk, the final check when those five do not work is rebellion. I believe that is the reason why the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th and 14th amendment were created - to keep the possibility that if the leadership decides to ignore the will of the people that the option to depose is always possible. They did not want another King George. Now with the Patriot act and the NSA wiretapping I believe Americans have very few avenues in place to instill fear into a corrupt government. That's very dangerous, because when the government knows that they can act with impunity it often leads to dictatorship. You might think that right wing militia groups and left wing groups like Greenpeace and the Black Panthers are a sign that anarchy is on the horizon but I see it the other way - I see it as a sign of a healthy democracy that there are groups out there that cannot be controlled or reigned in by the government. Leaders need to know that rebellion is possible as a hedge against pursuing their own interests over the will of the masses. I don't believe rebellion is possible any longer in this country so the possibility of dictatorship is very likely.
posted by any major dude at 8:45 AM on June 8, 2006
posted by any major dude at 8:45 AM on June 8, 2006
While I tend to agree with you, that's a very different argument from the one you made in your first comment, which seemed to equate the ability to murder the President with insuring that the will of the people was paid attention to.
posted by OmieWise at 8:53 AM on June 8, 2006
posted by OmieWise at 8:53 AM on June 8, 2006
I feel obligated to join in pointing out that assassinating any one particular politician is not likely by itself to bring about Utopia, nor even that state of stateless communism I regard as the ultimate social ideal, and to add that concentrating too much on such a tactic might well hinder, sidetrack or delay The Revolution. Nevertheless, the reason I haven't tried to do any such thing is that, especially after the CIA-scripted Hinckley fiasco, I severely doubt there's any way I'd ever get close enough to do any damage before going down in a frenzy of unfriendly fire. (My long history of saying stuff like this in public, such as this comment here, probably don't help neither.) So count me as once again impaled on the fencepost here, and hence as of little use even as a "prophet".
That said, I would not weep for the loss of the Shrub, nor could I bring myself to condemn anyone who would rid us of this troublesome pest. (Hello NSA!) E.g., it was not Prinzip who made WW1 "necessary". I also (being an autodidact pedant at heart) must point out the origin of the word "assassin" (in lieu of any concrete public advice on possible and/or hypothetical strategy), and that it occasionally it does a world of good simply to, e.g., leave a dagger on somebody's nightstand. ("Memento mori, motherfucker.")
[Next time I find myself on a fencepost I hope I remember the damn vaseline.]
posted by davy at 9:48 AM on June 8, 2006
That said, I would not weep for the loss of the Shrub, nor could I bring myself to condemn anyone who would rid us of this troublesome pest. (Hello NSA!) E.g., it was not Prinzip who made WW1 "necessary". I also (being an autodidact pedant at heart) must point out the origin of the word "assassin" (in lieu of any concrete public advice on possible and/or hypothetical strategy), and that it occasionally it does a world of good simply to, e.g., leave a dagger on somebody's nightstand. ("Memento mori, motherfucker.")
[Next time I find myself on a fencepost I hope I remember the damn vaseline.]
posted by davy at 9:48 AM on June 8, 2006
You make some pointed and weighty arguments.
posted by sonofsamiam at 9:58 AM on June 8, 2006
posted by sonofsamiam at 9:58 AM on June 8, 2006
Dude, my sights have sunk so low I'll just be happy if they keep him off the goddam first-class $10 stamp.
posted by DenOfSizer at 10:35 AM on June 8, 2006
posted by DenOfSizer at 10:35 AM on June 8, 2006
Pen/sword - all that.
(depends on the optics exlotuseater - you can get out to 1000 meters with a .308 if you are the shit, (Gunny Sgt. Hathcock in Vietnam made a shot of just over 1.4 miles with a modified .50 and jury rigged but obviously well doped sights) further and flatter with a .50 using saboted ammo, but the joy of the .50 is that the payload volume lets you hit harder futher out - and of course conditions, but penetration depends on range, so you could go out to 1800 meters, but you should be inside of 200 to 400 meters if you expect to penetrate anything really hard. But it’s been long enough that the SS has adapted to the “fuck your bulletproofing” .50 cal APIHC or Raufoss MP ammo with mobility, countersnipers, et.al. So hitting your target isn’t the problem, finding a safe spot to fire from is. But you probably wouldn’t have clear sightlines anyway and you can punch through about seven inches of concrete from 400 meters, a typical .308 shot is 300 to 600 - do the math. (More at Janes) Bush, for example, wouldn’t have been safe in that school reading ‘My Pet Goat’ if terrorists had the intel, a sniper with a .50 and the will to do it. But discussions on “killing the president” are academic. Look at their choice of target, did a hell of a lot more damage to the country than killing Bush would have. There’s something to be said for politicians fearing their people, but it’s been a long time since any one person has been that critical that you wouldn’t be better off with a lower risk, more devastating target. Which can also strike fear into their hearts. No one likes someone shitting where they eat.)
posted by Smedleyman at 11:03 AM on June 8, 2006
(depends on the optics exlotuseater - you can get out to 1000 meters with a .308 if you are the shit, (Gunny Sgt. Hathcock in Vietnam made a shot of just over 1.4 miles with a modified .50 and jury rigged but obviously well doped sights) further and flatter with a .50 using saboted ammo, but the joy of the .50 is that the payload volume lets you hit harder futher out - and of course conditions, but penetration depends on range, so you could go out to 1800 meters, but you should be inside of 200 to 400 meters if you expect to penetrate anything really hard. But it’s been long enough that the SS has adapted to the “fuck your bulletproofing” .50 cal APIHC or Raufoss MP ammo with mobility, countersnipers, et.al. So hitting your target isn’t the problem, finding a safe spot to fire from is. But you probably wouldn’t have clear sightlines anyway and you can punch through about seven inches of concrete from 400 meters, a typical .308 shot is 300 to 600 - do the math. (More at Janes) Bush, for example, wouldn’t have been safe in that school reading ‘My Pet Goat’ if terrorists had the intel, a sniper with a .50 and the will to do it. But discussions on “killing the president” are academic. Look at their choice of target, did a hell of a lot more damage to the country than killing Bush would have. There’s something to be said for politicians fearing their people, but it’s been a long time since any one person has been that critical that you wouldn’t be better off with a lower risk, more devastating target. Which can also strike fear into their hearts. No one likes someone shitting where they eat.)
posted by Smedleyman at 11:03 AM on June 8, 2006
There's a bit in the Crucifuck's* "Hinckley Had A Vision" where he goes:"I wanna take the president, chop off his head, and mail it to them in a garrrrbage baaag." Until reading this piece it had never occurred to me (the song is from 86 or so) that singing this line could be construed as illegal, or could get the band into troublle
Things have changed - now, as Metcalf broods upon, a thuggish, cruelly excessive response to any perceived threat or dissent is the norm.
Are there any semi-known bands saying anything like that about Bush these days...ie directly, not burying it in metaphors?
* album - 'Wisconsin'. A great hardcore record that I still really dig.
On Preview - Smedleyman, if I could throw facts like those into my everyday conversations and at work I'd probably be way more respected.
posted by Flashman at 11:23 AM on June 8, 2006
Things have changed - now, as Metcalf broods upon, a thuggish, cruelly excessive response to any perceived threat or dissent is the norm.
Are there any semi-known bands saying anything like that about Bush these days...ie directly, not burying it in metaphors?
* album - 'Wisconsin'. A great hardcore record that I still really dig.
On Preview - Smedleyman, if I could throw facts like those into my everyday conversations and at work I'd probably be way more respected.
posted by Flashman at 11:23 AM on June 8, 2006
So, ironically, what might be best is if Presidents truly lived in fear of the risk.
Thus the 2nd amendment.
posted by knave at 11:49 AM on June 8, 2006
Thus the 2nd amendment.
posted by knave at 11:49 AM on June 8, 2006
/ Flashman - dude...where do you work?
I dunno, looking back I wish I played the piano or something. Become a surgeon. Something productive.
But I do think it’d almost be worth say losing a testicle to hit “the Pres” (any of ‘em) center mass with a paintball. Just for the beers you’d get for the story - once you got out of Leavenworth after 25 or so years.
posted by Smedleyman at 12:34 PM on June 8, 2006
I dunno, looking back I wish I played the piano or something. Become a surgeon. Something productive.
But I do think it’d almost be worth say losing a testicle to hit “the Pres” (any of ‘em) center mass with a paintball. Just for the beers you’d get for the story - once you got out of Leavenworth after 25 or so years.
posted by Smedleyman at 12:34 PM on June 8, 2006
Smedleyman: I know that 2000 m is the ceiling for large targets, and I'm aware that the optics are as important, or more so, than the weapons' capability at ranges such as these. (although I wouldn't argue that you know far more than I about the subject, and I'm always interested to hear what you have to say)
.50's really are amazing though.
And of course, I was not threatening the safety and security of the President, only pointing out that a motivated and patient individual could do some damage.
posted by exlotuseater at 12:44 PM on June 8, 2006
.50's really are amazing though.
And of course, I was not threatening the safety and security of the President, only pointing out that a motivated and patient individual could do some damage.
posted by exlotuseater at 12:44 PM on June 8, 2006
Academically speaking, any of a number of things could cause a 747 to accidentally crash on takeoff or landing. Depending on wind speed and direction there are very few ways that a fully loaded 747 with extra equipment on board (like an armored limousine) could land or take off.
If you could train a herd of geese to be attracted to Lies and Bullshit, they would take down a very large jet.
posted by Megafly at 12:47 PM on June 8, 2006
If you could train a herd of geese to be attracted to Lies and Bullshit, they would take down a very large jet.
posted by Megafly at 12:47 PM on June 8, 2006
I played around with the idea of a group of terminal patients (15 or 20) organizing one last thoughtful series of simultaneous gifts for the nation before they go... Or maybe it's time for some of us Buddhist-types to start self-immolating... OTOH, I've located a flock of geese if anyone is interested. They'll do anything for free pizza.
posted by overanxious ducksqueezer at 1:00 PM on June 8, 2006
posted by overanxious ducksqueezer at 1:00 PM on June 8, 2006
Watching SouthPark last week, I was caught up by the final scene of the toilet-papering episode, where the escapee makes a call to officer Barbrady from a payphone in front of the whitehouse. I wonder how hard it would be to do, without getting kilt, and is it even possible to accomplish without getting arrested... Not conspiring, mind you, just curious.
posted by nomisxid at 1:12 PM on June 8, 2006
posted by nomisxid at 1:12 PM on June 8, 2006
The Canadian Army sniper Rob Furlong managed a confirmed hit on a human target at 2,430m with a McMillan .50 although he had the advantage of open terrain, a spotter, positioning and the ability to adjust fire (i.e. multiple shots).
The number of minor things that effect accuracy at that range is insane, everything from your breathing pattern and heart rate, temperature, crosswinds to minor pitting on the surface of the round can create major change to the point of impact*. I count myself lucky I can hit a target at 200 - 300m (albeit with a 5.56mm which is way too light for any sort of accurate distance shooting).
Popping the Prez really won't change a thing - the cancer is too deep in the system for the removal of a single cell to affect the patient. You'd be best served by trying to sort out your congress and impose some form of limitation on political lobbying.
*it's way more complex than this.
posted by longbaugh at 1:22 PM on June 8, 2006
The number of minor things that effect accuracy at that range is insane, everything from your breathing pattern and heart rate, temperature, crosswinds to minor pitting on the surface of the round can create major change to the point of impact*. I count myself lucky I can hit a target at 200 - 300m (albeit with a 5.56mm which is way too light for any sort of accurate distance shooting).
Popping the Prez really won't change a thing - the cancer is too deep in the system for the removal of a single cell to affect the patient. You'd be best served by trying to sort out your congress and impose some form of limitation on political lobbying.
*it's way more complex than this.
posted by longbaugh at 1:22 PM on June 8, 2006
I thought about the whole "gang" thing watching the funeral episode of West Wing - one well placed missle during the ceremony would have taken out the entire cast of characters...
Ahhh, television.
posted by DesbaratsDays at 1:28 PM on June 8, 2006
Ahhh, television.
posted by DesbaratsDays at 1:28 PM on June 8, 2006
I'm reminded of when the reporter asked Morrissey what he would do if one of his fans tried to kill Margeret Thatcher. His instant reply: "Well obviously I would marry that person."
All an assassination would accomplish is lionize the right and demonize the left. If you think 9-11 was exploited for a radical agenda, wait until somebody kills the man that a good part of the country still sincerely sees as the second coming. It's the worst possible thing that anybody could do to try to bring back rational policies. That and, as a 100% death penalty opponent, I can't condone the retributive death of anyone, no matter how much they deserve it. Justice will truly be served when Bush is legally convicted of all his high crimes and thrown into the most dangerous block of the most dangerous prison in America, with no chance to ever again see his family and all the time in the world to compare himself to Jesus and not understand why he deserves this fate. That would be justice.
That said, if anyone did assassinate him or Cheney, I would mourn either of them. I'd just mourn with champagne and streamers, is all.
posted by Navelgazer at 1:28 PM on June 8, 2006
All an assassination would accomplish is lionize the right and demonize the left. If you think 9-11 was exploited for a radical agenda, wait until somebody kills the man that a good part of the country still sincerely sees as the second coming. It's the worst possible thing that anybody could do to try to bring back rational policies. That and, as a 100% death penalty opponent, I can't condone the retributive death of anyone, no matter how much they deserve it. Justice will truly be served when Bush is legally convicted of all his high crimes and thrown into the most dangerous block of the most dangerous prison in America, with no chance to ever again see his family and all the time in the world to compare himself to Jesus and not understand why he deserves this fate. That would be justice.
That said, if anyone did assassinate him or Cheney, I would mourn either of them. I'd just mourn with champagne and streamers, is all.
posted by Navelgazer at 1:28 PM on June 8, 2006
I have no opinion on the matter under discussion. I just want to see what happens when the Secret Service invevstigates everyone who has commented in this thread.
posted by dersins at 1:34 PM on June 8, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by dersins at 1:34 PM on June 8, 2006 [1 favorite]
A friend of mine from work was once incarcerated for threatening the life of a US President.
While said friend was in college in Illinois, Gerald Ford visited the city he was in. During a drunken party that night, my friend called the hotel where Ford was staying and left a message, inviting him to the party, with a call back number and the address of the house.
Meanwhile, moments later, a crackpot called the hotel and threaten to kill Ford if he left the hotel.
Not suprisingly, the Secret Service showed up a the house and snatched up my friend and his buddy. They were held without communication for 48 hours. Eventually, Ford left town and somebody decided they probably were not the same caller, and they were released.
What scared my friend was that they were not asked any questions at all for 12 hours, just held in separate cells, and that they had no chance to contact ANYBODY - lawyers, parents, etc - until they were released.
posted by Dunwitty at 2:35 PM on June 8, 2006
While said friend was in college in Illinois, Gerald Ford visited the city he was in. During a drunken party that night, my friend called the hotel where Ford was staying and left a message, inviting him to the party, with a call back number and the address of the house.
Meanwhile, moments later, a crackpot called the hotel and threaten to kill Ford if he left the hotel.
Not suprisingly, the Secret Service showed up a the house and snatched up my friend and his buddy. They were held without communication for 48 hours. Eventually, Ford left town and somebody decided they probably were not the same caller, and they were released.
What scared my friend was that they were not asked any questions at all for 12 hours, just held in separate cells, and that they had no chance to contact ANYBODY - lawyers, parents, etc - until they were released.
posted by Dunwitty at 2:35 PM on June 8, 2006
The first must enforce, not replace, the second two.
posted by zennie at 2:37 PM on June 8, 2006
/ exlotuseater - sure man, just talking shop. Not an argument, you seemed interested. We all have our expertise. (I know just enough to screw up my computer.)
And, 1.42 miles = about 2285 meters. So, who knows? There are some pretty savvy guys out there. I don’t know what you could do if you customed out a kit.
I’m sure the SS is interested in this thread. I can’t imagine we’d come up with something off the cuff that they haven’t thought of years ago though.
There are tiger teams that train people by attempting to exploit weaknesses in their system.
(back on)
Y’know, I think, given that Harper’s hasn’t been raided and Metcalf isn’t in custody (as far as I know) you pretty much can say that.
But I think you could complain about Kings and such way back when, just not too loudly and/or in their face.
Which I think is true today. If Bush really didn’t like Metcalf he could wind up on the no-fly list, get audited all the time, get phone calls, lose his job (whether by direct pressure, influence through advertisers or more creative methods) blah blah blah - less direct, but same upshot as if you irritated (not really pissed off or in any real way were a threat to) a King.
I’m reminded of that scene from the Godfather where Michael Corleone says the Don is no different from any other powerful man: senators, presidents.
Kay says don’t be naive, senators and presidents don’t have men killed. And he says “Now, who’s being naive, Kay.”
But wealth and power - the great equalizer is death.
posted by Smedleyman at 2:58 PM on June 8, 2006
And, 1.42 miles = about 2285 meters. So, who knows? There are some pretty savvy guys out there. I don’t know what you could do if you customed out a kit.
I’m sure the SS is interested in this thread. I can’t imagine we’d come up with something off the cuff that they haven’t thought of years ago though.
There are tiger teams that train people by attempting to exploit weaknesses in their system.
(back on)
Y’know, I think, given that Harper’s hasn’t been raided and Metcalf isn’t in custody (as far as I know) you pretty much can say that.
But I think you could complain about Kings and such way back when, just not too loudly and/or in their face.
Which I think is true today. If Bush really didn’t like Metcalf he could wind up on the no-fly list, get audited all the time, get phone calls, lose his job (whether by direct pressure, influence through advertisers or more creative methods) blah blah blah - less direct, but same upshot as if you irritated (not really pissed off or in any real way were a threat to) a King.
I’m reminded of that scene from the Godfather where Michael Corleone says the Don is no different from any other powerful man: senators, presidents.
Kay says don’t be naive, senators and presidents don’t have men killed. And he says “Now, who’s being naive, Kay.”
But wealth and power - the great equalizer is death.
posted by Smedleyman at 2:58 PM on June 8, 2006
I don't advocate the murder of any sitting president unless maybe they've clearly seized power illegally and stayed beyond the term they were elected for.
However, if there was a coup and we were to nominate someone from metafilter to off the unelected president, I'd choose scarabic.
posted by BrotherCaine at 4:04 PM on June 8, 2006
However, if there was a coup and we were to nominate someone from metafilter to off the unelected president, I'd choose scarabic.
posted by BrotherCaine at 4:04 PM on June 8, 2006
I love Harpers for this shit. Its Voltaire and Twain rolled into one only better.
Maybe we should have a national referendum on live TV so the people can have their say. Call it Death for Dubaya? Fox would eat it up. Forget about voter fraud. Fox knows where the money is.
posted by Huplescat at 5:45 PM on June 8, 2006
Maybe we should have a national referendum on live TV so the people can have their say. Call it Death for Dubaya? Fox would eat it up. Forget about voter fraud. Fox knows where the money is.
posted by Huplescat at 5:45 PM on June 8, 2006
Why bother assainating the president? His financial backers are far easier targets. Just be sure to leave a note so people know why you're doing it.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:49 PM on June 8, 2006
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:49 PM on June 8, 2006
I seek only to gauge what level of discourse is still acceptable in this country by asking, in the hope that I might someday participate in that discourse, whether I am free to posit that it would probably be great fun, and a boon to all mankind, if I were to slaughter the president of the United States with my bare hands.
fucking awesome.
posted by shmegegge at 6:01 PM on June 8, 2006
fucking awesome.
posted by shmegegge at 6:01 PM on June 8, 2006
holy fuck are you all going to have secret service crawling all up in your ass now...
posted by Jeremy at 8:29 PM on June 8, 2006
posted by Jeremy at 8:29 PM on June 8, 2006
It's a whole new twist to buggery: "The Secret Service: They Crawl in But They Don't Crawl Out!"
posted by davy at 8:05 AM on June 9, 2006
posted by davy at 8:05 AM on June 9, 2006
CARTMAN: Eeh, you know, you'll just be sitting there, minding your own business, and they're all come marching in and crawling up your leg and start biting the inside of your ass, and you'll be all like "Ay! Get out of my ass, you stupid rainbows!"
STAN: Cartman, what the hell are you talking about?
CARTMAN: I'm talking about rainbows. I hate those frigging things.
KYLE: Rainbows are those little arches of color that show up during a rainstorm.
CARTMAN: Oh, rainbows! Oh yeah; I like those; those are cool.
STAN: What were you talking about?
CARTMAN:Huh? Oh, nothing. Forget it.
posted by nomisxid at 4:03 PM on June 9, 2006
STAN: Cartman, what the hell are you talking about?
CARTMAN: I'm talking about rainbows. I hate those frigging things.
KYLE: Rainbows are those little arches of color that show up during a rainstorm.
CARTMAN: Oh, rainbows! Oh yeah; I like those; those are cool.
STAN: What were you talking about?
CARTMAN:Huh? Oh, nothing. Forget it.
posted by nomisxid at 4:03 PM on June 9, 2006
"Let me assure the posters up thread that you cannot get within 2 km of the President of the United States and sucessfully deploy a .50 rifle."
While Al Gore was the VP, he once came within less than a hundred yards of me on one of the relatively rare occasions that I had my 30.06 rifle handy (FAA regs for Alaska require you to carry a gun, oddly enough). I'm not sure I would have noticed who he was except for AIR FORCE TWO kind of giving it away. I'm quite confident that if I were so motivated, I could have easily gotten off an accurate shot or two.
Hey, I was there first and had no idea that he was coming. I suppose if it's possible, the SS is even more paranoid post 9/11 than they were then so this kind of thing is less likely now.
P.S. Dear Secret Service, I'm a lapsed Quaker, but I still don't believe in violence and would never even point a weapon at any person.
posted by surlycat at 3:01 AM on June 10, 2006
While Al Gore was the VP, he once came within less than a hundred yards of me on one of the relatively rare occasions that I had my 30.06 rifle handy (FAA regs for Alaska require you to carry a gun, oddly enough). I'm not sure I would have noticed who he was except for AIR FORCE TWO kind of giving it away. I'm quite confident that if I were so motivated, I could have easily gotten off an accurate shot or two.
Hey, I was there first and had no idea that he was coming. I suppose if it's possible, the SS is even more paranoid post 9/11 than they were then so this kind of thing is less likely now.
P.S. Dear Secret Service, I'm a lapsed Quaker, but I still don't believe in violence and would never even point a weapon at any person.
posted by surlycat at 3:01 AM on June 10, 2006
So if it wasn't rainbows, what was it? Ass herpes?
posted by DenOfSizer at 3:18 PM on June 24, 2006
posted by DenOfSizer at 3:18 PM on June 24, 2006
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posted by IronLizard at 12:54 AM on June 8, 2006