strength and vulnerability
September 7, 2006 5:59 PM Subscribe
photo exhibit of Israeli female army soldiers is poignant and moving. apart from the struggle of being a soldier in mandatory two-year service is the struggle of finding acceptance among peers, yet maintaining your own identity, and finding a balance between being a teenage girl and a woman with an semi-automatic rifle
This post was deleted for the following reason: posted previously
How many female Israeli soldier sites does the web need? I've seen three at least.
posted by fire&wings at 6:05 PM on September 7, 2006
posted by fire&wings at 6:05 PM on September 7, 2006
haha yes did i mention they're beautiful? i think thats what gets me- teenage girls should be going on dates and falling in love not fighting wars
posted by petsounds at 6:11 PM on September 7, 2006
posted by petsounds at 6:11 PM on September 7, 2006
what's so poignant about it? I don't get it. Unless you subscribe to out-dated ideas about gender and crap. If men have to serve, so should women. It doesn't seem like the Israelis send out many women into actual combat, though. And how does simply holding a rifle interfere with being a 'teenager and a woman'?
posted by delmoi at 6:11 PM on September 7, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by delmoi at 6:11 PM on September 7, 2006 [1 favorite]
Great post, great pictures. But why the "depression" tag? Some of the soldiers look sad, some look tired, some look bored, as you might expect, but I can't say the overall impression is particularly melancholy.
posted by escabeche at 6:12 PM on September 7, 2006
posted by escabeche at 6:12 PM on September 7, 2006
haha yes did i mention they're beautiful? i think thats what gets me- teenage girls should be going on dates and falling in love not fighting wars
Whatever. I didn't see a single female soldier on TV during the Lebanon debacle. Whether you agree with Israeli policy or not (I certainly don't) they certainly have a lot of enemies. It would be stupid for them to give up their country over some squishy ideas like that.
If we ever have a draft in this country again, they should include women.
posted by delmoi at 6:14 PM on September 7, 2006
Whatever. I didn't see a single female soldier on TV during the Lebanon debacle. Whether you agree with Israeli policy or not (I certainly don't) they certainly have a lot of enemies. It would be stupid for them to give up their country over some squishy ideas like that.
If we ever have a draft in this country again, they should include women.
posted by delmoi at 6:14 PM on September 7, 2006
well it was from reading the artist statement page where she talks about how hard it was for her in the army and some of the emotional stuff you go through.. etc sorry if it was already posted- i did search for the url but not her name
posted by petsounds at 6:16 PM on September 7, 2006
posted by petsounds at 6:16 PM on September 7, 2006
While I'm being a tag nag anyway, why "judaism"? I saw a couple of shots of women praying -- but notice how empty the shul was? I'm pretty sure the majority of people in these pictures, while Jewish, to be sure, are only occasional and haphazard practitioners of Judaism, the religon. And confusion between "the IDF" and "Judaism" is a bad thing, as we know.
At this point, I'd like to reassure everybody that I'm 100% OK with the other two tags on this post.
posted by escabeche at 6:18 PM on September 7, 2006
At this point, I'd like to reassure everybody that I'm 100% OK with the other two tags on this post.
posted by escabeche at 6:18 PM on September 7, 2006
The boys have to serve three years, so the girls should quit whining.
posted by thirteenkiller at 6:19 PM on September 7, 2006
posted by thirteenkiller at 6:19 PM on September 7, 2006
when the war comes these ladies need to engage Qaddafi's cat-suit she-devils with extreme prejudice; rraowr
posted by riotgrrl69 at 6:23 PM on September 7, 2006
posted by riotgrrl69 at 6:23 PM on September 7, 2006
haha yes did i mention they're beautiful?
A post on female Israeli (and only Israeli) soldiers? You don't say. And here you had me convinced that this was a thoughtful post about gender issues in the military.
and what delmoi said. Lives are equally precious, male and female alike. If we can't bear to send -- apparently the difficulty here is -- the beautiful, then maybe we shouldn't be sending anyone at all.
posted by dreamsign at 6:32 PM on September 7, 2006 [1 favorite]
A post on female Israeli (and only Israeli) soldiers? You don't say. And here you had me convinced that this was a thoughtful post about gender issues in the military.
and what delmoi said. Lives are equally precious, male and female alike. If we can't bear to send -- apparently the difficulty here is -- the beautiful, then maybe we shouldn't be sending anyone at all.
posted by dreamsign at 6:32 PM on September 7, 2006 [1 favorite]
What these photos impressed most upon me is how much the mandatory service requirement must strengthen the sense of Israeli national identity. Those girls look awkward dressed head-to-toe in camo and carrying weapons half as tall as they are. You do feel sorry that their youths are being interrupted for two years for this. And then you notice how upbeat they seem to be, and how much they must bonding, and you appreciate better how strongly the self-image of the unwillingly embattled underdog must be embedded in the Israeli psyche.
Israel's national identity and pride comes from its military, and the service of the current crop will ensure that that continues for decades to come.
posted by gsteff at 6:37 PM on September 7, 2006
Israel's national identity and pride comes from its military, and the service of the current crop will ensure that that continues for decades to come.
posted by gsteff at 6:37 PM on September 7, 2006
dreamsign writes "If we can't bear to send -- apparently the difficulty here is -- the beautiful, then maybe we shouldn't be sending anyone at all."
That's crazy-talk! Next thing, you'll also say that the ranks of the military should include equal wealthy and not-so-wealthy people in equal numbers!
posted by clevershark at 6:38 PM on September 7, 2006
That's crazy-talk! Next thing, you'll also say that the ranks of the military should include equal wealthy and not-so-wealthy people in equal numbers!
posted by clevershark at 6:38 PM on September 7, 2006
haha yes did i mention they're beautiful? i think thats what gets me- teenage girls should be going on dates and falling in love not fighting wars
With other teenage girls, right? because teenage boys should be fighting in the wars, hmm?
But honestly, people should be doing whatever they choose to do; if they weren't drafted and weren't out of their minds when they signed up, then I suppose it's okay.
Sucks for the people they're going to kill though.
posted by wumpus at 6:45 PM on September 7, 2006
With other teenage girls, right? because teenage boys should be fighting in the wars, hmm?
But honestly, people should be doing whatever they choose to do; if they weren't drafted and weren't out of their minds when they signed up, then I suppose it's okay.
Sucks for the people they're going to kill though.
posted by wumpus at 6:45 PM on September 7, 2006
What these photos impressed most upon me is how much the mandatory service requirement must strengthen the sense of Israeli national identity.
I sure it helps that everybody has the same ethnicity. If you had a mandatory service requirement in the US, soldiers would very likely self segregate across racial lines.
posted by Pastabagel at 6:47 PM on September 7, 2006
I sure it helps that everybody has the same ethnicity. If you had a mandatory service requirement in the US, soldiers would very likely self segregate across racial lines.
posted by Pastabagel at 6:47 PM on September 7, 2006
I sure it helps that everybody has the same ethnicity.
Druze Arabs and Circassians, like Israeli Jews, serve mandatory service in the IDF.
I must say, every time I start thinking MeFi is more grown-up than most of the web, a thread like this comes along and the chorus of "huh huh hawt!!" reminds me not to get all choked up about it.
posted by languagehat at 6:57 PM on September 7, 2006
Druze Arabs and Circassians, like Israeli Jews, serve mandatory service in the IDF.
I must say, every time I start thinking MeFi is more grown-up than most of the web, a thread like this comes along and the chorus of "huh huh hawt!!" reminds me not to get all choked up about it.
posted by languagehat at 6:57 PM on September 7, 2006
languagehat- thanks for the link. After reading it, though, I stand by my earlier statement:
posted by Pastabagel at 7:04 PM on September 7, 2006
Originally, they were taken into a special unit called "The Minorities' Unit", which still exists today, in the form of the Harev patrol battalion, but since the 1980's Druze soldiers have increasingly protested this practice, which they considered a means of segregating them and denying their access to prestigious units. The army has increasingly admitted Druze soldiers to ordinary fighting units and gave them access to higher ranks from which they had been previously excluded.Also the overwhleming majority of
posted by Pastabagel at 7:04 PM on September 7, 2006
oops, ignore last phrase
posted by Pastabagel at 7:04 PM on September 7, 2006
posted by Pastabagel at 7:04 PM on September 7, 2006
There are many who avoid service, especially females. While it's not exactly a choice (not that simple), it is possible if you object to Israel's military actions to avoid service.
posted by cell divide at 7:08 PM on September 7, 2006
posted by cell divide at 7:08 PM on September 7, 2006
Also, for pastabagel and languagehat, it's not just the Druze, there are huge ethnic differences between Russian, Ethiopian, Ashkenazi, Sephardim, etc. etc. within Israel. Same religion, but ethnicity? Tough to say. Definitely diverse though.
posted by cell divide at 7:10 PM on September 7, 2006
posted by cell divide at 7:10 PM on September 7, 2006
Ok, what's with all the over sensitive gender reactions? The photos would be interesting if they were terribly young men too. That knee-jerk just gave me whiplash...
I normally don't find too much interesting in the typical mefi photo posts, but I actually clicked through the whole set, and read the artist statement, and even checked the publication link to see if the project was available for purchase.
I particularly liked #69, because I totally remember that exact moment from my college days. Thinking... pulling back her hair. But at my school nobody was checking the chamber of their rifle...
Also, as to the ethnic homogeneity of the IDF, I'm not so sure. The artists bio indicates she is from Ohio.
posted by butterstick at 7:21 PM on September 7, 2006
I normally don't find too much interesting in the typical mefi photo posts, but I actually clicked through the whole set, and read the artist statement, and even checked the publication link to see if the project was available for purchase.
I particularly liked #69, because I totally remember that exact moment from my college days. Thinking... pulling back her hair. But at my school nobody was checking the chamber of their rifle...
Also, as to the ethnic homogeneity of the IDF, I'm not so sure. The artists bio indicates she is from Ohio.
posted by butterstick at 7:21 PM on September 7, 2006
You know, they may be cute. This article and post, however, are glamorizing young women who are being taught to seek out equally cute young women on the other side, and blow large chunks of them into hamburger.
posted by Malor at 7:24 PM on September 7, 2006
posted by Malor at 7:24 PM on September 7, 2006
I wonder if a lot of young Israelis wind up meeting boyfriends and girlfriends in the army.
Not to sound crass, but that could definitely take some of the sting out of 2 years mandatory service.
posted by Afroblanco at 7:40 PM on September 7, 2006
Not to sound crass, but that could definitely take some of the sting out of 2 years mandatory service.
posted by Afroblanco at 7:40 PM on September 7, 2006
Yeah, it's cool, but this has to be a double. It's so old these girls probably have wrinkles now.
posted by justgary at 7:48 PM on September 7, 2006
posted by justgary at 7:48 PM on September 7, 2006
dreamsign writes "If we can't bear to send -- apparently the difficulty here is -- the beautiful, then maybe we shouldn't be sending anyone at all."
CleverShark responded: That's crazy-talk! Next thing, you'll also say that the ranks of the military should include equal wealthy and not-so-wealthy people in equal numbers!
I have a way to ensure world peace. Make sure the military of every country are only staffed by the beautiful and the wealthy.
We'll never go to war again.
posted by dejah420 at 7:53 PM on September 7, 2006
CleverShark responded: That's crazy-talk! Next thing, you'll also say that the ranks of the military should include equal wealthy and not-so-wealthy people in equal numbers!
I have a way to ensure world peace. Make sure the military of every country are only staffed by the beautiful and the wealthy.
We'll never go to war again.
posted by dejah420 at 7:53 PM on September 7, 2006
That sound you hear is the simultaneous bookmarking of the site by all the AR-15 fetishists...
posted by Rhomboid at 7:59 PM on September 7, 2006
posted by Rhomboid at 7:59 PM on September 7, 2006
Yeah, kinda hawt, although I have a niece who's a corpsman second who isn't a whole hell of a lot older. I'm getting to where I look at women this age and think, "damn, that's somebody's daughter" instead of "I'd hit that."
One giveaway that the gallery's old: I think the IDF is issuing everybody the Tavor now vice the M-16 or M-4. More user-friendly as weapons go, eaiser to train new shooters, more realistic choice of weapon for urban combat, etc. These gals are all on civvy street now except for the odd NCO or ossifer.
I'm too wrapped up in the Steelers-Dolphins game to feel like looking for links, but maybe somebody else will want to substantiate or disprove that the IDF got away from putting women in front-line outfits -- I'm not sure if that included infantry or just related forward-based stuff -- because it was detrimental to unit cohesion and the mission suffered. Guys were violating orders to protect the women in the unit and it got to be a hazardous distraction, caused morale problems because guys couldn't take it when women got hit, etc.
There's a scene in GI Jane right out of SERE School where, if they'd taken it to its logical conclusion by immobilizing and (possibly sexually) torturing the lone female BUD/S class member while making her male classmates watch, most of the guys would've caved in pretty quickly and the social-engineering experiment would've been over -- most normal guys would go berserk if they saw that happening to a woman they know.
Apologies if that idea is offensive to anyone, but I didn't invent human nature.
That, I think, is an even greater counterargument to women in expanded roles than "They can't lift 150 lbs." (A few gals hack it at least as well as the guys, although they're damn few indeed.)
posted by pax digita at 8:13 PM on September 7, 2006
One giveaway that the gallery's old: I think the IDF is issuing everybody the Tavor now vice the M-16 or M-4. More user-friendly as weapons go, eaiser to train new shooters, more realistic choice of weapon for urban combat, etc. These gals are all on civvy street now except for the odd NCO or ossifer.
I'm too wrapped up in the Steelers-Dolphins game to feel like looking for links, but maybe somebody else will want to substantiate or disprove that the IDF got away from putting women in front-line outfits -- I'm not sure if that included infantry or just related forward-based stuff -- because it was detrimental to unit cohesion and the mission suffered. Guys were violating orders to protect the women in the unit and it got to be a hazardous distraction, caused morale problems because guys couldn't take it when women got hit, etc.
There's a scene in GI Jane right out of SERE School where, if they'd taken it to its logical conclusion by immobilizing and (possibly sexually) torturing the lone female BUD/S class member while making her male classmates watch, most of the guys would've caved in pretty quickly and the social-engineering experiment would've been over -- most normal guys would go berserk if they saw that happening to a woman they know.
Apologies if that idea is offensive to anyone, but I didn't invent human nature.
That, I think, is an even greater counterargument to women in expanded roles than "They can't lift 150 lbs." (A few gals hack it at least as well as the guys, although they're damn few indeed.)
posted by pax digita at 8:13 PM on September 7, 2006
I see the girls of the IDF have the exact same policy I do wrt never going anywhere without your strap, not even to the can. I still wish there was a non-military compulsory national service in the US, I think it would make people take a stronger interest in the fortunes, conduct and philosophies of their own country.
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:20 PM on September 7, 2006
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:20 PM on September 7, 2006
A little something to counter all the hawtness:
posted by damn dirty ape at 8:44 PM on September 7, 2006
posted by damn dirty ape at 8:44 PM on September 7, 2006
If this is what they are teaching these girls in the army, the IDF has more serious issues ahead. Seriously, unless this is the very first day, nay the first hour, of training camp, the way that girl is (not) shouldering that rifle is criminal.
And languagehat, yes, I find some of these girls attractive, just as I imagine many women would find some of the males in a male battalion attractive. I'm not sure what's the problem here. Are they not supposed to be attractive because they are in a particular context?
posted by Ynoxas at 8:50 PM on September 7, 2006
And languagehat, yes, I find some of these girls attractive, just as I imagine many women would find some of the males in a male battalion attractive. I'm not sure what's the problem here. Are they not supposed to be attractive because they are in a particular context?
posted by Ynoxas at 8:50 PM on September 7, 2006
I think you may need to be a little more conservative in the picture-posting, damn dirty ape. I'm developing an impression of you as a prolific poster of photos. If MeFi is the same as it's been for many years, you're going to start pissing people off.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:50 PM on September 7, 2006
posted by five fresh fish at 8:50 PM on September 7, 2006
To me, the cries of "hawt" are slightly immature, because all I see is a typical range of beauty that you would expect in any sample of 20-ish women. For every cry of "hawt", I would expect another of "back to the gentiles with you, porky!" if I were to take you guys seriously.
posted by UbuRoivas at 10:02 PM on September 7, 2006
posted by UbuRoivas at 10:02 PM on September 7, 2006
Am I seeing things or are those fatigue dresses and/or skirts in some of those pictures? How the hell are you supposed to fight anything in an ankle-length skirt?
posted by IshmaelGraves at 10:08 PM on September 7, 2006
posted by IshmaelGraves at 10:08 PM on September 7, 2006
Through the mysterious workings of the international sisterhood, they swap clothing & fighting tips with the Iranian policewomen.
posted by UbuRoivas at 10:30 PM on September 7, 2006
posted by UbuRoivas at 10:30 PM on September 7, 2006
Looks like a Facebook photo gallery of the most badass Jewish Summer camp ever. Now with added psy-trance.
posted by redteam at 10:37 PM on September 7, 2006
posted by redteam at 10:37 PM on September 7, 2006
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more like nubile and hawt!
posted by keswick at 6:04 PM on September 7, 2006