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Mr. Borat Goes to Washington
September 29, 2006 10:33 AM Subscribe

Mr. Borat Goes to Washington(YouTube video; part two) Kazakhstan's "Borat Sagdiyev" leads 50 journalists on a sprint to the White House after a press conference. "These claims are part of a propaganda campaign against our country by evil nitwits Uzbekistan, who as we all know are nosy people with a bone in the middle of their brain."
(Regret to inform that the chase isn't on the video.)
posted by kirkaracha (150 comments total)

I liiiiiiiiiiiiiike!
posted by anotherbrick at 10:41 AM on September 29, 2006

sweet. can't wait to see this movie.
posted by dig_duggler at 10:45 AM on September 29, 2006

I gotta be the only person who consistently finds this man unfunny. I've never laughed at anything he's done. Wtf is wrong with you people?
posted by dobbs at 10:49 AM on September 29, 2006

We're plebes.
posted by boo_radley at 10:50 AM on September 29, 2006

I don't think Ripping on Khazacks is for no reason is really all that funny. I mean, what the hell did they ever do?

Yeah, the government sucks, but Borat is making fun of the people of Khazackstan, who by all accounts are very nice, and certainly not "jew hating" in any way.

It's like he just picked some random country and decided to create a bunch of stereotypes about it.

Ethnic Khazacks aren’t even very Harry! I've never seen one with a mustache. They are very Asian in appearance. If you saw one you would think they were Japanese.
posted by delmoi at 10:51 AM on September 29, 2006 [1 favorite]

go, sasha, go!
posted by unwordy at 10:51 AM on September 29, 2006

You are not the only one, dobbs. He's so astonishingly unfunny he makes me regret being born. He seems to go down a storm in America though. Feel free to keep him.
posted by influx at 10:52 AM on September 29, 2006

I don't think it's so much him being funny as it is what he goads other people to do being funny.
posted by ewagoner at 10:55 AM on September 29, 2006

Seriously, you're saying this is not funny at all?
posted by hototogisu at 10:55 AM on September 29, 2006

Yeah, the government sucks, but Borat is making fun of the people of Khazackstan, who by all accounts are very nice, and certainly not "jew hating" in any way.

Borat isn't making fun of the Khazaks; he's making fun of us.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 10:55 AM on September 29, 2006 [1 favorite]

i can't wait for the movie! the trailer cracked me up. borat.tv
posted by jcruelty at 10:56 AM on September 29, 2006

People without a sense of humor find something unfunny. Shocking.
posted by basicchannel at 10:56 AM on September 29, 2006 [1 favorite]

The giggling camera operator pretty much ruined this clip, but thanks.
posted by StarForce5 at 10:57 AM on September 29, 2006

dobbs, it isn't just you. While I think his deconstruction of Western attitudes (e.g. Borat at the rodeo, Borat singing "throw the Jew down the well") is Kaufman-esque, he's holding Kazakhstan up to undeserved ridicule. I found the stoking of possible international resentment between two countries offensive, particularly since he's promoting his movie.
posted by dhartung at 10:58 AM on September 29, 2006 [1 favorite]

Uzbeks drank my battery fluid!
posted by mazola at 10:59 AM on September 29, 2006

I first saw him a year ago while studying in Bulgaria, which might as well be Kazakhstan for most Americans. In any case, some of the jokes connected with my surroundings--bad english, donkeys, anti-semitism, misogyny, etc.

But really, the laughs are mostly about preying on gullible Americans.

And the hram.
posted by anotherbrick at 11:00 AM on September 29, 2006

Borat isn't making fun of the Khazaks; he's making fun of us.

You can't be serious. He may be making a subtle point about racism and antisemitism in the U.S., but he is obviously making fun of Khazaks. I mean, okay he's being 'ironic' when he says that khazaks are all these horrible things. Just like Carlos Mencia is being "ironic" when he says black people are great at drive bys. Whatever.

What he says about the Khazaks are absurd nonsequiters, but I doubt they make people from the country very happy. I mean, we know they aren't, because they are bitching about it.
posted by delmoi at 11:03 AM on September 29, 2006

Just like Carlos Mencia is being "ironic" when he says black people are great at drive bys.

Ahhhh. Is Borat more of a Chappelle or a Mencia?
posted by sonofsamiam at 11:05 AM on September 29, 2006

Hey Yorgi! These Uzbeks bet me two kopeks that I couldn't get three words out of you!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 11:08 AM on September 29, 2006

So it isn't obvious to everyone that Kazakhstan and its people aren't being ridiculed whatsoever. Peculiar that. I suppose he could've made up a fake country, but using a real one and taking advantage of misconceptions for comedic purposes (not to mention what it illustrates) wouldn't be as relevant.

He seems to go down a storm in America though. Feel free to keep him.

Is it true he's no longer popular in England or anywhere else outside the States? He got quite a reception at the Toronto Film Festival.
posted by juiceCake at 11:09 AM on September 29, 2006

saw the movie last night. it was great! havent laughed that hard in a long time.
posted by fillsthepews at 11:10 AM on September 29, 2006

My opinion FWIW is that it is rude to Khazaks, but since everyone knows its a joke, I think its permissible. Of course Khazaks may not like it, and I probably wouldnt either in their shoes, but since it makes me laugh I dont care much.

OTOH I thought black people bitching about Ali G being racist was much more ridiculous & beyond the pale (ha!) but of course Borat is supposed to actually be Khazaki.

Khazakis? Dont they make bikes?
posted by criticalbill at 11:10 AM on September 29, 2006

Is it true he's no longer popular in England

No not true at all.
posted by criticalbill at 11:11 AM on September 29, 2006

Go Borat! Go!

We need more surrealism confronting american moroooonism on TV.
posted by homodigitalis at 11:12 AM on September 29, 2006

I can't speak for the whole of Britain (more's the pity), but as far as I'm concerned he outstayed his welcome with that Ali G shit long ago, and he's not been seen on British TV for a fair old while.

At least Ali G was funny once (and precisely once); Borat is just drivel. Goes to show that a privileged upbringing and an expensive education is no guarantee against a complete talent failure.
posted by influx at 11:13 AM on September 29, 2006

If you don't think he's funny you need to see this clip.
posted by banished at 11:14 AM on September 29, 2006

Ahhhh. Is Borat more of a Chappelle or a Mencia?

I'm not accusing him of being a Mencia. And I don't mind him making fun of Americans, but I feel kind of bad for the Khazacks getting roped into this for no reason.
posted by delmoi at 11:14 AM on September 29, 2006

It looks like this is a "any buzz is good buzz" situation for Kazakhstan--note the "unwritten rule" that Kazakhs are not allowed to criticize or mock their prez (a former communist party chairman whose most recent election was condemned by watchdogs as undemocratic).

The main international criticism is the bitching and moaning of an autarch with stung pride. Everyone else is learning a little about the real Kazakhstan and discarding the surreal Borat stereotype.
posted by anotherbrick at 11:17 AM on September 29, 2006

I think the point is that most Westerners are so ignorant that they buy into his obvious lies. He's making fun of how easily people can be led into saying ignorant racist stuff.

As for the Khazacks, frankly most Americans are so ignorant of geography it might as well be made up.

He's speaking Hebrew when he pretends to be speaking Khazack anyway.
posted by MythMaker at 11:17 AM on September 29, 2006 [1 favorite]

It's like he just picked some random country and decided to create a bunch of stereotypes about it.

I'm pretty sure that is precisely what he did. He sometimes makes up stereotypes mid-bit.
posted by ChasFile at 11:18 AM on September 29, 2006

this is not funny at all?

Nope. Neither is "the Office" (both American and British), Punkd, or anything else that ridicules bystanders who are not in on the joke. Painful to watch, in fact.
posted by CynicalKnight at 11:18 AM on September 29, 2006

FWIW if someone went to Khazakstan and pretended to be an American journalist and made up all sorts of ludicrous stereotypes about Americans, I wouldn't be offended.
posted by Jasper McLean at 11:19 AM on September 29, 2006

Would people be upset if he was using Denmark/Danes for his purposes?
posted by joseph_elmhurst at 11:20 AM on September 29, 2006

The Office ridicules bystanders? You know it's not real, right?
posted by influx at 11:22 AM on September 29, 2006

Sasha Baron Cohen (the man behind the mask, so to speak) often infuses Borat's mindless and funny rantings observations on society at large. This often leads to the exposing of certain problems e.g. the "throw the jew down the well" episode.
posted by citizenkane at 11:24 AM on September 29, 2006

Nope. Neither is "the Office" (both American and British), Punkd, or anything else that ridicules bystanders who are not in on the joke. Painful to watch, in fact.

Wrong. The best jokes are when someone isn't laughing.
posted by sonofsamiam at 11:25 AM on September 29, 2006

Is it true he's no longer popular in England
No not true at all.

Erm, are you living in the same England that I am? His Ali G show got cancelled a few years ago, in favour of Bo Selecta!

His Ali G character was *insanely* popular in the UK, in the late 90's - his Borat and Bruno characters didn't catch on at all though. It's only now that we're seeing lots of promotion of his Borat character.
posted by metaxa at 11:29 AM on September 29, 2006

Khazaks laugh like anyone else
posted by criticalbill at 11:29 AM on September 29, 2006

delmoi writes "He may be making a subtle point about racism and antisemitism in the U.S., but he is obviously making fun of Khazaks. "

The thing is, he's not making fun of Khazaks. As far as Borat's concerned, Khazakstan is just an empty shell into which he's projected his parody of the American idea of foreignness. Very little of this parody has anything to do with the real Khazakstan. I suppose he could have made up a country name, but using the name of a real country just seems funnier. Can't explain comedy, I suppose.

I see why some Khazaks would be upset, but his statements are so surreal, so detached from reality, that it's hard to find them legitimately offensive.

CynicalKnight writes "Neither is 'the Office' (both American and British), Punkd, or anything else that ridicules bystanders who are not in on the joke."

"The Office" is fiction, filmed on a set, with actors. Those cringe-worthy silences? That's acting!
posted by mr_roboto at 11:31 AM on September 29, 2006

His Ali G show got cancelled a few years ago, in favour of Bo Selecta!

Bollocks was it. Cohen stopped doing Ali G when he ran out of people to fool. If he's been quiet lately it might be something to do with the feature film about to be released.
posted by criticalbill at 11:32 AM on September 29, 2006

This isn't about Borat. Not ultimately. What made this a story is the absurdly strong response of an entire government to a single comedian. They went to other heads of state to say, basically, "can't you control that guy who's saying things we don't like?" Well, maybe that's how they do things in Kazakhstan...

The giggling camera operator pretty much ruined this clip, but thanks.

Hearing grown men from stick-in-the-mud DC actually giggling, in public and on camera... that was the best part!
posted by zennie at 11:34 AM on September 29, 2006

Those cringe-worthy silences? That's acting!

Yes, yes. But it's close enough to the real thing that it triggers the same physical reaction. I cannot get further than 5 minutes into an episode without hitting the eject button.
posted by CynicalKnight at 11:36 AM on September 29, 2006

... anything... that ridicules bystanders who are not in on the joke. Painful to watch, in fact.

You probably shouldn't watch these, then.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:36 AM on September 29, 2006

I thought this was kinda funny but it would get old after about five minutes.
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 11:37 AM on September 29, 2006

Woops, I mean this.
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 11:38 AM on September 29, 2006

I see why some Khazaks would be upset, but his statements are so surreal, so detached from reality, that it's hard to find them legitimately offensive.

Kazakhstan doesn't have an Oympic donkey swim team?
posted by sonofsamiam at 11:39 AM on September 29, 2006

metaxa writes "His Ali G show got cancelled a few years ago"

What's the story with that? I heard the first two seasons were filmed back to back, before the show was released. They weren't able to keep getting interviews once Ali G achieved notoriety.
posted by mullingitover at 11:41 AM on September 29, 2006

Wrong. The best jokes are when someone isn't laughing.

Only if you're a sadistic jackass. I can't stand "humor" like that. Although with Punk'd it was a little different because it was celebrities. I guess knowing that those people lead a sort of simicharmed life

FWIW if someone went to Khazakstan and pretended to be an American journalist and made up all sorts of ludicrous stereotypes about Americans, I wouldn't be offended.

Well, it's sort of positional. Americans live in the richest, most powerful country in the world, and so they're not going to be too sensitive to people making fun of them but what about some smaller subset? How would you feel about someone going on TV making fun of your family or something?

Keep in mind that the main ethnic group in Kazakhstan is, you know, Kazaks. There are also some Russians and other groups there, but for the most part people living in Kazakhstan are ethnically Kazak

People get upset because they're Kazaks and now people are always going to associate this crazy shit with them personally.
posted by delmoi at 11:41 AM on September 29, 2006 [2 favorites]

mr_roboto has it. The original Borat sketches from England seemed to poke fun at the politeness of British society, and how they assume yokels from the former Soviet Bloc must be like. The fact that people put up with all the dumb stuff he does is funny. This is also true of Ali G. That these British heads of state, or professors, etc, assumed it was real is entertaining.
posted by chunking express at 11:42 AM on September 29, 2006

You probably shouldn't watch these, then

Excellent point. I find these hilarious.

cue the cries of Hypocrite!
... and observers would be quite justified in doing so.

What's the difference in these seemingly identical scenarios?

In the "Talking with Americans" series the faux reporter is actually from the place he satirizes, and the comedy produced is intended for consumption by people of that region. He doesn't direct spite at another ethnic group and in doing so make bystanders feel they're observing/participating in a hate crime.
posted by CynicalKnight at 11:44 AM on September 29, 2006

Carlos Mencia thinks he's being provocative by being racist. Sacha Cohen is provocative because he points out our racism.

Would people be upset if he was using Denmark/Danes for his purposes?

No, but you've touched on the crux of his humor. You'd be hard-pressed to find a modern, industrialized country we know less about than Kazakhstan. Its only significance is its obscurity. If he were using Denmark, enough people would recognize it as utter bullshit that it wouldn't work.

The linked WaPo article's comment that he performs in "the gonzo, deadpan, taking-the-joke-almost-too-far tradition of Andy Kaufman and Peter Sellers" pretty much sums it up, IMO.
posted by mkultra at 11:47 AM on September 29, 2006 [1 favorite]

Only if you're a sadistic jackass.

Meh. If humor doesn't make some people uncomfortable, it's not trying very hard, imo.

The Colbert speech, where everyone was afraid to laugh, and Bush was about to shit himself?

Finest moment in comedy in a decade.
posted by sonofsamiam at 11:47 AM on September 29, 2006

Not once while watching any Borat epsidoes did I ever think "Khazaks are really like that." Cohen's comedy is clearly directed at the Americans Borat interacts with. Part of the schtick always involves trying to get Americans to behave in ways they wouldn't normally in front of a camera. Some of this involves exposing racist attitudes in the Americans, and a lot of it just involves capitalizing on American ignorance of other cultures.

Ali G is funnier to me, though. Nothing beats when Ali G asked James Kerr if maybe the problem with anti-terror measures in the US was that there was not a severe penalty for suicide bombing. And the Pat Buchanan interview was priceless as well.

And I always thought Ali G wasn't intended to be mocking black people, but a whole other group altogether.
posted by eustacescrubb at 11:48 AM on September 29, 2006

The Borat schitck is no more a slam against the Kazakh than South Park's Terrence & Philip and "Blame Canada" are a slam against Canada.

Clearly, the Kazakh people are too thin-skinned. Maybe they should wear heavy coats made from the skins of dogs that I hear they kill for sport.
posted by solid-one-love at 11:48 AM on September 29, 2006

Alvy Ampersand writes "You probably shouldn't watch these, then."

Man, I've tried to watch those Rick Mercer things, but I find them pretty poorly exectuted. The editing is so quick that it really creates the impression that they're cherry-picking, or even coaching, interviewees. One of Cohen's strengths is that he's able to have an extended conversation with someone and slowly pull out the absurdity, or the bigotry. It's much more satisfying.

CynicalKnight writes "In the 'Talking with Americans' series the faux reporter is actually from the place he satirizes, and the comedy produced is intended for consumption by people of that region. "

You think he's satirizing Canada? I think it's pretty obvious that his satire is aimed squarely at Americans.
posted by mr_roboto at 11:49 AM on September 29, 2006

The thing is, he's not making fun of Khazaks. As far as Borat's concerned, Khazakstan is just an empty shell into which he's projected his parody of the American idea of foreignness.

I know he's not making fun of 'real' kazaks. But how would you like your name being used as an "empty shell" for a ton of absurd and offensive ideas. How would you like it if someone was on TV saying "I'm mr_roboto (except your real name) and I like to rape women and murder jews!" I mean, by your logic you shouldn't be offended because it's not the "real" you it's just your name being used as a stand in, an empty shell. Most people don't know anything about mr_roboto, right?

I see why some Khazaks would be upset, but his statements are so surreal, so detached from reality, that it's hard to find them legitimately offensive.

Legitimately? So stereotypes and insults aren't offensive if they're not based on anything legitimate? Imagine if someone started saying that all Asian women had sideways vaginas and were anti-Semites. You don't think most Asian women would be upset by that?

Khazaks laugh like anyone else

If you read the article, the ambassador says one thing, but the movie chain operator was obviously not laughing and quite offended. Everything I've heard indicates that most of them are pretty offended.
posted by delmoi at 11:52 AM on September 29, 2006 [1 favorite]

Weird, I can't stand Talking to Americans, mainly because Mercer could do most of that material in a Canadian city and get similar responses(By exploiting people's natural reactions to being on camera and being asked rapid fire questions; most people's instinct is to be agreeable in such situations, even if they don't understand or mishear the question).

And while he doesn't direct spite, he does make Americans targets for his audience's contempt while giving Canadians another excuse to look down their nose at Yanks and pat themselves on the back.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:55 AM on September 29, 2006

this thread sucks because of humorless tossers.
posted by StrasbourgSecaucus at 11:55 AM on September 29, 2006

How would you feel about someone going on TV making fun of your family or something?

Kinda depends on how close to home it hits, doesn't it? If they said my mother was fat, they'd be right, and I might sniffle a little. If they said pantently absurd things about the whole Amanojaku clan, like how we're a bunch of toad-licking narcoleptics who love taking hot air baloon rides—didn't you know that?—are they even really making fun of my family?
posted by Amanojaku at 11:57 AM on September 29, 2006

Or what has already been said and addressed. Never mind. *nods off...*
posted by Amanojaku at 11:59 AM on September 29, 2006

am i supposed to become enraged every time a comedian makes fun of the united states?

i mean, is there something wrong with me because i don't?

please, all you folks who are offended -- especially those of you who aren't even Kazakh -- tell me what i'm doing wrong! why am i not as uptight and humorless as you?
posted by StrasbourgSecaucus at 12:00 PM on September 29, 2006

"I'm mr_roboto (except your real name) and I like to rape women and murder jews!"

I like where this is going. They should do this show Conan-style with the moving lips, you get to send in a photo and a name and $15 and they slander the person on-air with over-the-top vulgarity!
posted by sonofsamiam at 12:01 PM on September 29, 2006

Everything I've heard indicates that most of them are pretty offended.

I love this comment, which gives the impression that you somehow have access to loads of resources on Khazakstani culture which you've distilled carefully over time for our benefit, instead of reading the same few articles as everyone else. But maybe you do.

FWIW I didn't think that the Throw the Jew Down the Well was all that fair on the rednecks watching, since as Alvy says, taking advantage of people's politeness is not the same as exposing bigotry, especially when it might be hard to hear what was being said. Borat is not as cutting as Ali G was, but he is still very funny. I like stereotype jokes. Irish jokes, Jewish jokes, Khazak jokes, they're funny.
posted by criticalbill at 12:03 PM on September 29, 2006

Clearly, the Kazakh people are too thin-skinned. Maybe they should wear heavy coats made from the skins of dogs that I hear they kill for sport.

You really think the average Kazakh wouldn't be offended by that statement? Wtf?

It amazes me that supposed liberals would say this kind of shit. Do you think black people offended by Mencia are just "thin skinned"? Just because it's some random country you've never heard of you get to shit on them all you want?
posted by delmoi at 12:03 PM on September 29, 2006

Bruno had his moments too, including the asshole wrestlers on Daytona beach.
posted by fire&wings at 12:05 PM on September 29, 2006

I love the idea that being funny is an intrinsic property. As if it can be proved to be a truth.
posted by smackfu at 12:06 PM on September 29, 2006

I wonder if those employees of The Office know there are cameras filming them?
posted by NationalKato at 12:08 PM on September 29, 2006

If they said pantently absurd things about the whole Amanojaku clan, like how we're a bunch of toad-licking narcoleptics who love taking hot air baloon rides—didn't you know that?—are they even really making fun of my family?

Borat isn't saying these people sleep in or take hot air balloon rides, hey's saying their jew-haiting wife beating, uneducated, etc.

please, all you folks who are offended -- especially those of you who aren't even Kazakh -- tell me what i'm doing wrong! why am i not as uptight and humorless as you?

Right, because I don't like this humor, I'm obviously humorless. Anyone who ever gets offended by something is humorless, of course. Especially black people who don't like nigger jokes. They're the worst.
posted by delmoi at 12:08 PM on September 29, 2006

Right, because I don't like this humor, I'm obviously humorless.

Just because you don't think these jokes are funny, doesn't mean they aren't funny.
posted by NationalKato at 12:11 PM on September 29, 2006

It amazes me that supposed liberals would say this kind of shit.

Oh whom do you speak? And, why does one's political leanings matter in this discussion of a fictitious character engaging in a post modern version of a comic doing an ethnic routine. Do you get outraged when you listen to a Richard Pryor album and hear all of the slander towards white people? What about Bill Hicks' and his bits about Christians and Republicans?
posted by joseph_elmhurst at 12:11 PM on September 29, 2006

i think borat is hilarious, but i do recognize that people could both understand it and not think it is funny. however, the people in this thread who think he's making fun of khazakstan are only slightly less confused than the people who think borat is real.
posted by snofoam at 12:14 PM on September 29, 2006

"Imagine if someone started saying that all Asian women had sideways vaginas"

Don´t they?
posted by cardoso at 12:17 PM on September 29, 2006

Can I shit in your house?
posted by dr_dank at 12:22 PM on September 29, 2006

Good lord delmoi et. al get the sticks out of your collective arses.
posted by xmutex at 12:23 PM on September 29, 2006

Anyone who ever gets offended by something is humorless, of course.

basically, yes.
posted by StrasbourgSecaucus at 12:26 PM on September 29, 2006

this thread sucks because of humorless tossers.

No, I think the debate is interesting, because it shines a spotlight on the fine differences between expressions of humour that on the surface seem identical but underneath have very different directions and targets.
posted by CynicalKnight at 12:27 PM on September 29, 2006

Do you get outraged when you listen to a Richard Pryor album and hear all of the slander towards white people? What about Bill Hicks' and his bits about Christians and Republicans?

Well, there is a difference between kicking someone when they're up, and kicking them when they're down, and kicking them totally randomly for no reason at all. Where did this idea come from that if ethnic jokes aimed at one group are OK by that group, all ethnic jokes aimed all groups must also be OK.

I don't think there is any good reason to assume that at all.

Obviously some groups are more sensitive then others. Why is it if Americans are not offended by jokes about America, then if Kazaks are offended by jokes about Kazaks they're somehow "thin skinned"

Also, keep in mind that there are obviously lots of Americans who would get offended by certain jokes about Americans.

It has to do with perceived status, I think. And the other thing is that as an American we know most people get lots of information about us, but most people's only experience with Kazakhstan is going to be Borat.

Oh whom do you speak? And, why does one's political leanings matter in this discussion of a fictitious character engaging in a post modern version of a comic doing an ethnic routine.

Maybe the person I quoted? I always thought solid-one-love was some sort of Liberal. I've also seen Duncan Black (Artrios) talking about this movie on his blog, and he's an over the top feminist/anti-racist yet he thinks this movie is hilarious.

--

Anyway I don't think Borat is not funny I think he is pretty funny. It's just that I feel bad for the Kazaks getting draw into it for no reason at all.
posted by delmoi at 12:33 PM on September 29, 2006 [1 favorite]

Good lord delmoi et. al get the sticks out of your collective arses.

So now you're a homophobe?!
posted by delmoi at 12:34 PM on September 29, 2006

You really think the average Kazakh wouldn't be offended by that statement? Wtf?

If you listen closely, you can almost hear delmoi's argument jumping the shark.
posted by mkultra at 12:34 PM on September 29, 2006

So there I was sitting at the hotel bar. It was three o'clock in the afternoon on a Thursday is a big urban area. I was one of maybe a half dozen people skipping out on the conference's keynote speech to drown our sorrows in over-priced draft beer. We didn't talk, or even make eye contact, with each other and we'd spread out through the bar out of solemn respect for each other's alcoholism. The only noise was from the TV above the wall of liquor bottles.

I was halfway through my third drink when the bartender started laughing and calling to someone entering the bat behind me. I looked up at the mirror behind the bar and saw it was a lone man, short, with curly dark hair and a well-trimmed beard. He looked familiar, but I couldn't place his mirror image at all.

The guy sat down as close to me as the Guy Code would allow. Men drinking alone in bars is just as ritualized as men urinating in bar stalls. He and the bartender continued to talk and laugh, no doubt old friends forged by a big tip or two. I couldn't make out what he was saying, he had some sort of accent, but his voice was as naggingly familiar as his face.

Then, as I watched the bartender mix his drink, a vodka martini of some sort, something just clicked his identity struck me: That's Yakov Smirnoff! I remember him from cola commercials and Night Court! I made sure to speak up and catch the bartender's eye when I ordered my fourth so as to be drawn into their conversation.

It worked and let me tell you, Yakov Smirnoff is a hell of a guy. Funny, quick witted, and ready to talk with anybody. I'd never really "hung out" with a celeb before so it was all new to me. When it looked like he might leave, I bought Yakov another drink. He accepted with a broad smile and slid over to the chair next to me.

We sat and bullshitted for the best part of an hour. I was having a great time. So was he. I guess being famous, he doesn't get much of a chance to just sit and talk with regular folk like me. He'd even dressed for the occasion, his clothes were as wrinkled as mine, probably for being packed in a suitcase for so long. He was on a tour, he said, doing motivational speeches and the like for some consulting firm. He had a gig at that very hotel, the convention following mine.

Soon, we were best buds. I had just tossed down my corporate Visa to pay for our next round when I saw Yakov's head jerk up to face the bar TV. There was a commercial for that new movie with that Ali G guy, Sasha Cohen, playing his Borat-the-reporter character.

Suddenly, Yakov's smile became a little forced, a little strained. Our old bartender had long since gone off shift and his replacement, a bubbly blonde in her early 20s, looked up at the TV too and laughed. "I love that guy!" she cooed, "He's sssoooo funny! And sssoooo smart to come up with that Borat!"

I don't know if you know this, but Yakov Smirnoff has blue eyes. Cold, blue eyes. They locked on the girl, his face frozen and tense. His cheek twitched a bit, but the new bartender continued on, mistaking his attention for encouragement.

"Don't you think so? He's so original!"

I didn't even see him throw his glass, I just heard it crash. People were yelling and shouting. I got knocked off my stool as one of the hotel security guys ran in to pull Yakov off the vodka-soaked bar by the scruff of his suit. It ripped. He was flailing about, shouting something I couldn't understand.

I thought I saw blood on his hands as they dragged him out. He had ceased struggling by then, his body limp. He didn't even have enough energy left in him to cry.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 12:38 PM on September 29, 2006 [13 favorites]

Why the YouTube home-movie recording? The BBC was there...

Better video (RealVideo)
posted by Mwongozi at 12:41 PM on September 29, 2006

I doubt they make people from the country very happy

And this is bad! Because our mission, here at MetaFilter, is to make everyone, from all countries, happy all the time! If someone from some country, no matter how small—Nauru, say—comes for a visit to MetaFilter and finds something that makes them unhappy, what do you think will happen? They will go back to Nauru and tell their compatriots that MetaFilter is a place where people say things that make them unhappy. Then their heads will hurt and they will blame us.

And do you know why their heads will hurt?

Because of the bone in their brains!
posted by languagehat at 12:47 PM on September 29, 2006

Right, because I don't like this humor, I'm obviously humorless. Anyone who ever gets offended by something is humorless, of course. Especially black people who don't like nigger jokes. They're the worst.

You've made a number of ridiculous arguments in this thread in defense of your confused stance, but this is probably takes the cake. Several times you have claimed to understand that he is not, in fact, making fun of Kazakhs, yet you turn right around and suggest that someone making "nigger jokes" to black people is the same thing. It's not, for two reasons.

1.) You're not a Kazakh. You're just projecting your own displeasure on to them.

2.) Borat is not, for the last time, actually mocking Kazakhs. Do you get this? Your analogy doesn't hold water. Why? Because "nigger jokes", in this context, would have to be told by a black man, since you can't really have some white guy dress up like a black man and tell these jokes (and have it be believable for the ignorant marks).

But let's allow it for a second. Let's say you had a black Canadian male go down to southern America and play up a bunch of black stereotypes for Macaca-spouting, Confederate-flag-toting Senators. Would he be making fun of black people? Would you be outraged? Or would he be making fun fo the ignorant senator?

Even that misses the mark, however, since the stereotypes Borat uses for Kazakhs aren't even based on actual stereotypes. They're patently absurd. That's why Kazakhstan is a natural--and funny-target for Borat's satirical assault on the American consciousness. In a sense, it's less offensive than someone like Dave Chappelle using actual stereotypes to prove a similar point. It also doesn't run the risk of reinforcing actual stereotypes, which is a problem Chappelle ran into (and why he ultimately stopped making the show).

You are humourless, at least insofar as you fail--or refuse to--understand the rules of the game. I could care less if someone doesn't find it funny; "funny" is a fickle thing, after all. But at least dislike it on the proper terms, you know?
posted by The God Complex at 12:47 PM on September 29, 2006 [3 favorites]

An ethnic group/country (maybe) gets insulted by a comedian whose portrayal doesn't resemble them in one bit, stirs some to say comedian "not funny." Others disagree. Hyperreality at 11.
posted by anotherbrick at 12:47 PM on September 29, 2006

the bartender started laughing and calling to someone entering the bat behind me.

What kind of bars do you hang out in where they encourage bat-fucking?!
posted by languagehat at 12:48 PM on September 29, 2006

What kind of bars do you hang out in where they encourage bat-fucking?!

The best ones.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 12:50 PM on September 29, 2006 [1 favorite]

I love mefi threads where a bunch of people try to explain, justify or negate things that are so obviously of a preference. Now THAT is funny.
posted by BrodieShadeTree at 12:50 PM on September 29, 2006

languagehat wins!
posted by joseph_elmhurst at 12:52 PM on September 29, 2006

Borat isn't saying these people sleep in or take hot air balloon rides, hey's saying their jew-haiting wife beating, uneducated, etc.

He's saying they have a donkey water-polo team. He's saying that they elect their official according to penis size. That they might be anti-semites ... who have a country & western industry.

This is not black people and n****r jokes.

Obviously some groups are more sensitive then others. Why is it if Americans are not offended by jokes about America, then if Kazaks are offended by jokes about Kazaks they're somehow "thin skinned"

I think this is a good point. No follow up. It's just a good point.
posted by Amanojaku at 12:56 PM on September 29, 2006

He's a twat
posted by A189Nut at 12:57 PM on September 29, 2006

I'd just like to add that I'm glad comparing people to Mencia is an insult. That guy sucks.
posted by graventy at 1:00 PM on September 29, 2006

this thread sucks because of humorless tossers. - StrasbourgSecaucus

I have discovered the Ali G show only this week, and I think it's great. I find this discussion much more interesting than if everyone just rushed in here to say "ya, Borat, awesome, high five!"
posted by raedyn at 1:08 PM on September 29, 2006

Never heard of Ali G until this minute. Eh. Didn't have cable until a few months ago. But BECAUSE humorless dullards like delmoi hate it so vociferously it will now be my favorite show. Even though I have never seen it. It is my new favorite show. I will burn it to DVD. I will memorize every line. And I will laugh.

That is all.
posted by tkchrist at 1:20 PM on September 29, 2006

Aaaaand SCENE!
posted by NationalKato at 1:23 PM on September 29, 2006

1.) You're not a Kazakh. You're just projecting your own displeasure on to them.

I have seen lots of complains by them in the media. Remember the bruhaha when they took away his .kz domain? Why do you think that happened if they weren't offended?

Look at the quote from the the theater owner quoted in the bbc article:

_{But Kazakhstan's largest chain of cinemas, Otau, says it will not be showing the film.

"We consider this movie offensive, a complete lie and nonsense," distribution manager Ruslan Sultanov told Reuters.

"It's a shame that some Americans will probably believe what they see there," he added. "}

The reason I have this opinion is because I've read about complaints by actual Kazakh, I'm not just making this up whole of the cloth here, that would be ridiculous. First people say Kazakhs are being "thin skinned" and now people are saying that they're not offended at all and I'm just hallucinating or something.

Well, if no real kazakhs are offended then I don't have a problem with it.
posted by delmoi at 1:29 PM on September 29, 2006

Well, if no real kazakhs are offended then I don't have a problem with it.

Is this like a personal policy of yours? If someone makes a joke to you about a certain type of person do you have to check with every person who is of that type before you feel it's safe to laugh?
posted by xmutex at 1:32 PM on September 29, 2006

Borat is not, for the last time, actually mocking Kazakhs. Do you get this?

I'm not retarded, despite what many of you seem to believe. I don't think the "real underlying meaning" of the joke is what's at issue. It's superficially offensive to Kazakhs, and they didn't do anything to deserve it.

But BECAUSE humorless dullards like delmoi hate it so vociferously it will now be my favorite show. Even though I have never seen it. It is my new favorite show. I will burn it to DVD. I will memorize every line. And I will laugh.

Congratulations!
posted by delmoi at 1:40 PM on September 29, 2006

It's superficially offensive to Kazakhs, and they didn't do anything to deserve it.

Now we want to not be superficially offensive to anyone?
posted by xmutex at 1:50 PM on September 29, 2006

For the longest time I thought he was spoofing the "I kiss you" guy. Different country, of course, but similar appearance and um, inclinations.
posted by whatnot at 1:55 PM on September 29, 2006

I'm not retarded, despite what many of you seem to believe. I don't think the "real underlying meaning" of the joke is what's at issue. It's superficially offensive to Kazakhs, and they didn't do anything to deserve it.

I don't think you're retarded and I'm not trying to attack you, but I honestly don't really see where you're coming from. So what if it's "superficially" offensive to them? That's not the point. When people go down to the States and portray a bunch of ridiculous Canadian stereotypes in order to prove a point about America, I'm not offended.

I can't remember who did it (maybe Mercer, maybe someone else), but someone had a series of taped clips with random Americans congratulating Canada on a variety of inane things: "Congratulations, Canada, on finally completing your national railroad!"; or, "Congratulations, Canada, on finally connecting your power grid and achieving power across the entire nation!"

I think part of the issue here for Kazakhs is the language barrier. They have to rely on people to interpret it for them and humor doesn't always translate well across different languages. Obviously the quote from the cinema owned indicates they truly don't understand what Sasha is doing.
posted by The God Complex at 1:56 PM on September 29, 2006

*owner, rather.
posted by The God Complex at 1:57 PM on September 29, 2006

"Borat's Kazakhstan has nothing to do with the real Kazakhstan," ambassador Yerlan Idrissov told Sky News.

Seriously, anyone who thinks that Borat's commentary on Kazakhstan has any roots in reality are just deluding themselves. BUT it is fun to imagine that it is real, and that is part of the reason why he is so funny.

Oh, and my favourite Mercer quotes from Talking to Americans:
"Congratulations Canada on your first university!"
"Congratulations Canada on finally allowing women to vote!"
posted by Vindaloo at 2:08 PM on September 29, 2006

Congratulations!

Gesundheit!
posted by tkchrist at 2:10 PM on September 29, 2006

Okay you people have worn me down. I now think Borat is funny. Lol.
posted by delmoi at 2:25 PM on September 29, 2006

Screw funny. Borat's rich. Plus his thong is really pretty hot.
posted by DenOfSizer at 2:38 PM on September 29, 2006

Throw delmoi down the well. So MetaFilter can be free.
posted by xmutex at 2:41 PM on September 29, 2006

but Borat is making fun of the people of Khazackstan, who by all accounts are very nice, and certainly not "jew hating" in any way.

Borat isn't making fun of the Khazaks; he's making fun of us

Borat is making fun of delmoi
posted by matteo at 2:41 PM on September 29, 2006

There are people who think the British Office is not funny? Wtf is wrong with you people?
posted by dobbs at 2:50 PM on September 29, 2006

Ok. I didn't want to pull rank and be a smarty pants but before I got my masters degree in Terrorology I got my first PhD in Khazakstonics. And during the three year I spent in Astania I found the Khazaks to be everyting this Borat character says... and more. The dog eating festival. The anti-Semitism.

Finally the last straw: The Chimkent Vharblak Festival where residents go stuffing unruley children into burlap bags and go up and down the town square inviting total strangers kick the bag down a polluted cobblestone street into the back of a waiting minivan. Where in the children are then driven to a warehouse and sold to work the manure mines on the steppes of the Western Urals.

Disgraceful!

This is NOT funny. Invade Khazakstan NOW!
posted by tkchrist at 2:53 PM on September 29, 2006

PS. Did you hear the one about the Khazak, the jew, the lesbian, and the negro on the plane that was about to crash?

LOL. Hooo. Wait a minute I got get my composure back...
posted by tkchrist at 2:56 PM on September 29, 2006

I think Cohen is tremendously unfunny, but whatever. It's all subjective. I really don't care as long as I can listen to my Jack Benny tapes.
posted by keswick at 3:06 PM on September 29, 2006

You really think the average Kazakh wouldn't be offended by that statement? Wtf?

I'm not offended by an Academy-Award nominated song that referes to Canadians as having "beady eyes, their flapping heads all full of lies."

So whether the average Kazakh is offended or not is irrelevant to me. They should grow a thicker skin if so.
posted by solid-one-love at 3:13 PM on September 29, 2006

Anti-Defamation League Statement on the Comedy of Sacha Baron Cohen, aka 'Borat':

We are concerned, however, that one serious pitfall is that the audience may not always be sophisticated enough to get the joke, and that some may even find it reinforcing their bigotry.

Kazakhs present their own version of their country amid Borat's buffoonery:

Gleaming hotels and the region's best pastrami sandwiches, cash machines and the planet's largest population of wolves: these are among things Kazakhs want the world to know about their country--not the outrageous antics of comedy sensation Borat.
...
The world's first satellite and astronaut were launched from the desolate Kazakh steppe.

Embassy of Kazakhstan to the United States and Canada:

Those who seek stomach-turning sensations may try the skiing resort of Chimbulak.

(Is it funny if they do it to themselves?)
posted by kirkaracha at 3:52 PM on September 29, 2006

US nurtures ties with Kazakhstan--... US concerns over Kazakhstan's human rights record did not come up when the two leaders appeared before reporters after their Oval Office meeting.
In Kazakhstan, the media is controlled by the state and since the country achieved independence in December 1991 no election has been seen as free or fair.
President Nazarbayev has led his country with a tight rein on power - but the BBC's Jonathan Beale, at the US state department, says the US has been willing to overlook complaints about his autocratic rule. ...

Borat's shtick may actually help change things, and it is hysterical.
posted by amberglow at 4:04 PM on September 29, 2006

I'm not offended by an Academy-Award nominated song that referes to Canadians as having "beady eyes, their flapping heads all full of lies."

I already addressed this argument in a comment up thread.
posted by delmoi at 4:07 PM on September 29, 2006

Whenever I read an article on Borat, I play a little game I call "find where they mention that Sasha is Jewish".
posted by smackfu at 4:25 PM on September 29, 2006

Borat trivia: Borat's cousin is Simon Baron-Cohen, a leading authority on autism and developmental psychology. In his youth, Borat was a member Habonim Dror, a Jewish socialist youth movement; he studied at Cambridge, where his thesis was on Jewish involvement in the American Civil Rights movement - indicating, one might say, a long-standing interest in race and racism.
posted by stammer at 4:35 PM on September 29, 2006

I am so OFFENDED I ....I ....I am holding my breath ! I mean it is not like Borat vaguely remembers somebody.
posted by elpapacito at 4:47 PM on September 29, 2006

I vaguely resemble that remark...
posted by turducken at 5:02 PM on September 29, 2006

I already addressed this argument in a comment up thread.

I know. And I just addressed why your response wasn't compelling.
posted by solid-one-love at 5:07 PM on September 29, 2006

For the record, I think Borat rules. Bill Hicks, David Cross, Mitch Hedburg, Emo Phillips, Dave Chappelle, Zack Galfinkus, Dave Foley, and a whole mess of other people too. Anybody who pushes the boundries makes me happy.
posted by Bageena at 5:31 PM on September 29, 2006

You forgot Larry the Cable Guy.
posted by Espy Gillespie at 5:56 PM on September 29, 2006

You forgot Larry the Cable Guy.

Pushing boundaries and reinforcing them are two different things.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 6:14 PM on September 29, 2006

You mean Larry the Cable Lie?
posted by bob sarabia at 7:04 PM on September 29, 2006

This sort of stuff is possible to do without being offensive to a specific country. Two books written by a group of Australian comedians: Molvania and Phaic Tan, do exactly this. As do imaginary countries like Ruritania.

Cohen, by choosing a specific country is being offensive. The other thing he is doing is stirring up anti-semitism. This will probably play pretty simply in Kazakhstan as "Jew makes fun of our country".

Way to go.
posted by sien at 7:18 PM on September 29, 2006

Anybody who pushes the boundries makes me happy

Well, I find Sarah Silverman amusing sometimes, as well. But the combination of direct (not dulled) ethnic slur + psedo-realism + unknowing bystander deceit is a lethal formula that crosses a line for many (but not all) viewers.

Anecdote: When I was much younger and even more stupid, I thought Andrew Dice Clay was funny.
One evening I was at a smoke-filled stag party, in a room filled with drunk small town frat boys and grey haired curmudgeons in lumberjack shirts and baseball caps. Someone popped a Dice video into the vcr and, after 45 seconds, one right after the other, the old guys got up and silently left the room. They were not making a feminist statement, they had just experienced enough to know what they were seeing was just not funny. That even made an impression on me and taught me to evaluate things from a different perspective.
posted by CynicalKnight at 7:38 PM on September 29, 2006

Cohen, by choosing a specific country is being offensive. The other thing he is doing is stirring up anti-semitism. This will probably play pretty simply in Kazakhstan as "Jew makes fun of our country".

Are you implying that Kazakhs aren't sophisticated enough to understand our edgy, Western humor? At least one guy there gets the joke:

But Paryz Baitenov, whose independent 31 TV Channel is planning to produce a report on Borat, has a more counterintuitive approach: "I don't know any more brilliant promoter of Kazakhstan than Borat."

"We need to allow people to know what some bureaucrats are being so indignant about," he said. "Of course it's not politically correct. But it's funny."

That's from one of kirkaracha's links, by the way.
posted by GalaxieFiveHundred at 7:44 PM on September 29, 2006

It's too bad he just didn't say he's from Kresskeekistan or some small central asian republic between kazakhstan and uzbekistan or something like that. Kind of like Vlad from Molvania... it's just as funny.

This would be what Kaufman did, however in the information age, too many of Borat's targets would be suspicious if he said he was from a made up place like Molvania. People know Kazakhstan is a real place, they just don't know a thing about it, therefore they assume he is really who he says he is.

This is a really interesting discussion. Remember when Pollock jokes were offensive? Why is that not the case anymore?
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 7:51 PM on September 29, 2006

delmoi writes "kicking them totally randomly for no reason at all"

Did you get mad when John Cleese made a joke about those "miserable fat Belgian bastards?"
posted by krinklyfig at 8:34 PM on September 29, 2006

Ok you win me!
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:35 PM on September 29, 2006

sien writes "This sort of stuff is possible to do without being offensive to a specific country. Two books written by a group of Australian comedians"

Well, those Aussies are alright ... except those ones from Queensland. Maybe Texas should take them. Wait ... is it OK to make fun of parts of a country? Or is it just the whole country?
posted by krinklyfig at 8:39 PM on September 29, 2006

I bet that anyone who buys into the schtick (such that it serves to perpetuate some sterotype), two minutes after viewing the show would not be able to name the country Borat is supposed to be from.

Let's hope that some video surfaces of this pursuit down 16th St.
posted by exogenous at 8:49 PM on September 29, 2006

I don't think Sasha is funny either. It has nothing to do with whether or not the humor is offensive to anyone, though. I just think humor that depends on making people uncomfortable is rude. I don't like the gag interviews on The Daily Show either.
posted by effwerd at 9:12 PM on September 29, 2006

Do you guys not like humor that makes fun of our country and its leadership either? Some of the best humor around is political and pokes fun at people and their countries and leadership. From standup people to Daily Show and Colbert and Sat Night Live, etc, people have always done it--and there's plenty to mock in everyone.

Considering the place Borat pretends to be from is really a total dictatorship with absolutely no freedom or dissension allowed (and his tapes are forbidden there by order of the dictatorship), and a history of torturing and killing political opposition, a comedian mocking them is the least of the problems, and is actually raising awareness of the conditions there. The fact that Bush and Cheney are actually courting this evil piece of shit dictator because they have oil and allow our planes to land makes it even more topical.
posted by amberglow at 11:09 PM on September 29, 2006

... "Having just moved back to the U.S., I have found that more Americans are aware of Kazakhstan than four years ago when I last lived in the United States. The increased knowledge of Kazakhstan, however, is not due to the country’s economic successes or its role as a U.S. ally in the war on terror.' Instead, most Americans who have heard of Kazakhstan have heard of it through a satire of a Kazakh journalist named Borat. ...
"Borat certainly does not promote an image of Kazakhstan that is in sync with that which the government and its leader would like to promote abroad. As the old adage goes, however, 'there is no such thing as bad publicity.' If that is true, Borat is bringing much more publicity to Kazakhstan than the hired guns of Patton Boggs have accomplished. ...
posted by amberglow at 11:11 PM on September 29, 2006

So now you're a homophobe?!

Ahem.

I'm a homophobe, and I'm grossly offended by Delmoi's implication that we object to sticks in people's asses.

The only thing we object to is penises, and dildo's fashioned in Jeff Striker's image.

Sticks, spouse's pinkies (provided it's within the context of a marital relationship), buttplugs, gerbils and the like are all perfectly fine and completely consistent with religious doctrine.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 4:26 AM on September 30, 2006

Liquid explosion.
posted by thrakintosh at 4:41 AM on September 30, 2006

The only thing we object to is penises, and dildo's fashioned in Jeff Striker's image.

But maybe this is ok? ; o
(probably NSFW)
posted by amberglow at 5:12 AM on September 30, 2006

This is a really interesting discussion. Remember when Pollock jokes were offensive? Why is that not the case anymore?

Huh? I haven't heard one in years, so if your implication is "because they've vanished," then that makes sense, but if your implication is that they're no longer offensive, I find that hard—no, impossible—to believe. This is an age in which anything people could conceivably get offended at, they will get offended at. Cf. delmoi.

The obvious difference between polack jokes and Borat is that the former come out of a prejudice against Polish people and a desire to put them down, whereas the latter comes out of a desire to make people laugh by spinning ridiculous tall tales about a country nobody knows anything about. If you can't see the difference, get your optometrist to check your prescription.
posted by languagehat at 5:28 AM on September 30, 2006

But maybe this is ok? ; o

That's perfectly fine. I like to wear one during holy communion, along with my cilice and my Trent Lott Nipple Rings
posted by PeterMcDermott at 7:04 AM on September 30, 2006

This entire thread is extremely revelatory of the minds at work in MeFi. Borat rules.
posted by semmi at 9:16 AM on September 30, 2006

That's what good jokes do. An easy joke will have the set-up, which creates a little situation with certain expectations, then the punchline violates those expectations.

With a smarter joke, the expectations which are busted by the punchline are already present in the audience, unacknowledged, the whole culture is the set-up.
posted by sonofsamiam at 9:59 AM on September 30, 2006

All I'd like to ask Mr Cohen is this. Why did he choose Kazakhstan of all the countries to base his character in? Why not Uzbekistan, Mongolia, Russia, Romania or any of the many post-Communist countries?

I know some of you have been ranting on a lack of civil rights in Kazakhstan, but of the little I saw of Borat, it appears to me that he's making zero points about Kazakh society anywhere.

In short, I'll have to side with delmoi on this one. Borat's occassionally funny, but, all evidence points to Mr Cohen having rather flippantly chosen Kazakhstan without any reason. Cohen, it appears to me, isn't satirising the Kazakh-ness, if you will, of the Kazakhstanis, but apparently, just the fact that they arent that well-known in the US or UK.

I don't know if it is offensive, or derogatory, but it certainly isn't fair.
posted by the cydonian at 10:58 AM on September 30, 2006

That's what good jokes do.

Well, I'm not saying Sasha style humor is lacking the mechanics of comedy, I'm just saying it isn't funny to me. I tend to empathize with the confused and uncomfortable audience, or the mark, rather than the principles behind the performance or the performance itself.

With the Throw the Jew Down the Well bit, I find the description of the gig very funny, but when I try to watch it I don't laugh. I did laugh at the "forced to use our catapults" line in that fake press conference. And I laughed at the "so you support public masterbation" line in the Jason Jones skit highlighted in the other thread. But in general my instincts during these kind of routines are to mute or change the channel.

And I accept that this is much too polite of me.
posted by effwerd at 11:25 AM on September 30, 2006

I think he picked Kazahkstan because of the post-Sovietness, and because it does sound funny as a word (funnier than Albania or Bulgaria, etc), and because it's part of an already established genre of a kind of stock character with us that's been around since the cold war and post-cold war-- in commercials (daywear, eveningwear, swimwear), Yakov Smirnoff, Andy Kaufman, Balki, etc. Why does the Simpsons have Apu and Groundskeeper Willie and the Hispanic Bee guy? Why that Kumars show ? Why Kath and Kim? Why did/do people send up Valley Girls or hippies or homeboys or guidos or ...?
posted by amberglow at 12:11 PM on September 30, 2006

Huh? I haven't heard one in years, so if your implication is "because they've vanished," then that makes sense, but if your implication is that they're no longer offensive, I find that hard—no, impossible—to believe. This is an age in which anything people could conceivably get offended at, they will get offended at. Cf. delmoi.

The obvious difference between polack jokes and Borat is that the former come out of a prejudice against Polish people and a desire to put them down, whereas the latter comes out of a desire to make people laugh by spinning ridiculous tall tales about a country nobody knows anything about. If you can't see the difference, get your optometrist to check your prescription.

Dude, come on, how could you resist making the Pollock joke here?

/splatters paint on Languagehat in a random, but jarring, fashion.

In short, I'll have to side with delmoi on this one. Borat's occassionally funny, but, all evidence points to Mr Cohen having rather flippantly chosen Kazakhstan without any reason. Cohen, it appears to me, isn't satirising the Kazakh-ness, if you will, of the Kazakhstanis, but apparently, just the fact that they arent that well-known in the US or UK.

I don't know if it is offensive, or derogatory, but it certainly isn't fair.

I think it's a bit absurd to suggest that he's simply satirizing the fact that they're not well known in the U.S. As has already been addressed numerous times, he's satirizing Americans dearth of knowledge when it comes to the rest of the world. Now, there could be an element of poking fun at Kazakhstan--and, given their governmental system, it would be warranted--but does anyone really think that's the thrust of the humour? I don't know how anyone could.

And, as amberglow ably pointed out, "kazakhstan" the word is actually just kind of funny. We could discuss what makes "kazakhstan" funny, but then it would probably not be as funny, you know? Just enjoy it. Or don't. But getting caught up on fairness simply misses the point entirely.

/splatters paint on self, drives into tree.
posted by The God Complex at 12:35 PM on September 30, 2006

As has already been addressed numerous times, he's satirizing Americans dearth of knowledge when it comes to the rest of the world.

Totally--and the movie is apparently full of nice, smiling Americans agreeing and nodding to his utterances (about blacks, jews, women...).
posted by amberglow at 3:01 PM on September 30, 2006

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