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"a wonderful teacher", says the Superintendent
November 15, 2006 3:47 PM   Subscribe

"you belong in Hell" --that's the message being taught in Kearny, NJ, History teacher David Paszkiewicz's classes. ... At first Paszkiewicz denied he mixed in religion with his history lesson and the adults in the room appeared to be buying it, LaClair said. But then LaClair reached into his backpack and produced the CDs. At that point Paszkiewicz remarked, according to LaClair, "Maybe you're an atheist. ... (more here, including a link to some audio of it all)
posted by amberglow (84 comments total)

 
Even better audio.
posted by blue_beetle at 3:55 PM on November 15, 2006


Doesn't understand that "hell" in the original Bible languages refers to simply "the grave". Check. Thinks he's a good Christian but then has not problem lying. Check. Goes on a holy crusade in the classroom. Check. Yep. Sounds like a product of Christendom, to me.
posted by spock at 3:56 PM on November 15, 2006


Sometimes I have to remind myself that for some people the word atheist is an epithet, an accusation.

"Maybe you're an atheist..."

Goosebumps, anyone?
posted by mistermoore at 4:01 PM on November 15, 2006


cough
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 4:06 PM on November 15, 2006


He said Paszkiewicz told students that if they didn't accept Jesus, "you belong in Hell."

Wow, that's a pretty broad brush that includes Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists as well as atheists.

Thankfully all the people that have accepted Jesus, including more than a few born again murderers and rapists are going to Heaven.

Hell is going to be a hoppin' place. I'm looking forward to that party, because you just know it's going to have all the best music.
posted by quin at 4:08 PM on November 15, 2006


I couldn't hear anything on the audio link.

But if he was doing this, he should be fired and have his license revoked. There are plenty of crackpot, non-accredited religioius schools out there where he could spew his ignorance.
posted by bardic at 4:13 PM on November 15, 2006


And the kid's dad's a lawyer! I can't wait for the court case.

My brother-in-law is a youth minister who was recently hired at a public school to teach track. I like my brother-in-law, but if he crosses the line I hope there's a kid as courageous and collected as this kid to nail him to the wall.
posted by gurple at 4:14 PM on November 15, 2006


You may be a fundamentalist atheist if....
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:19 PM on November 15, 2006


Good for that kid.
posted by CRM114 at 4:24 PM on November 15, 2006


quin: that's a pretty broad brush that includes Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists as well as atheists

Darn tootin'. While broad, from this teacher's perspective, that brush isn't tarring over anything that didn't have it coming. For that matter, I wouldn't be surprised if he believes Catholics go to hell.
posted by adamrice at 4:24 PM on November 15, 2006


IRFH: what an intriguing site...
You have turned into a Jew and say "G-d" for the sole reason of not saying "God".
And then there's the FURRY VIOLENCE JESUS BUNNY.

Two questions spring to mind for you, IRFH.
1) Why do you know about this?
2) Why did you bring it to our attention?

I remain,
posted by boo_radley at 4:28 PM on November 15, 2006


I like how the Christian teacher who's trying to show his students the way, the truth and the life is perfectly willing to lie about it until backed into a corner by actual evidence.
posted by uosuaq at 4:30 PM on November 15, 2006 [2 favorites]


I probably belong in Hell for this, but the first thing that came to my mind when I read the Paszkiewicz remark, "Maybe you're an atheist...," was Jeff Foxworthy's "You Just Might be a Redneck if..." I was going to start compiling a list, then figured I better Google it first. Sure enough, it had already been done. So I just had to share. Cause I roll like that.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:33 PM on November 15, 2006


I wouldn't be surprised if he believes Catholics go to hell.

Yeah. Christians are pretty quick to turn on one another.
posted by bardic at 4:38 PM on November 15, 2006


So .... I haven't listened to the audio. But from the story alone, this doesn't sound all that uncommon - which is more a commentary on American society than on this particular teacher. Is there anything that makes this particular situation unique, other than the kid's dad being a lawyer?
posted by spaceman_spiff at 4:38 PM on November 15, 2006


The You may be a fundamentalist atheist if.... list is disturbing to me. It seems to be the result of a lot of thought and some amount of research. I'm used to agreeing with people whose arguments seem that well thought out. Fairly clever in parts, too.

Not that I think any of the arguments are good.
posted by gurple at 4:38 PM on November 15, 2006


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that He might convince maybe a couple dozen people in his time on this Earth, and that whosoever failed to espouse proper doctrine could be demonized in this life, and consigned to eternal torment in the next.
posted by ibmcginty at 4:39 PM on November 15, 2006 [8 favorites]


Far, far more christians were persecuited for their faith once it became the official religion of the Roman Empire than had ever been fed to the lions by the "pagans". They just had the ill fortune to be the wrong kind of christian (especially Gnostics).
posted by Riemann at 4:41 PM on November 15, 2006


IRHF: Well, it's given me a headache, and I'm clutching at my skull now.
posted by boo_radley at 4:51 PM on November 15, 2006


Then my work here is done!

*skulks back to Hell*
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:53 PM on November 15, 2006


Heywood -- well, shit, that's a shame. That's a really fucking stupid shame. God-fuckin'-damnit.

I rage not at you but at the awful implications of the linked sentiment.
posted by mistermoore at 4:55 PM on November 15, 2006


Wow, that's a pretty broad brush that includes Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists as well as atheists.

Catholics, too. that's the madness of Protestant fundamentalism, really. it's exclusionary to a crazy degree. mainline Catholics don't use the "Jesus Christ as personal savior" language, nor are "born-again" in any way. that's hardline Protestant fundy talk. and it's quite new, less than a century really.

established, official Vatican policy (1994), backed by then-Cardinal Ratzinger, states that the Vatican rejects fundamentalism and literalism, considering them wrong and dangerous. long quote but this is a key issue, sorry:
The basic problem with fundamentalist interpretation of this kind is that, refusing to take into account the historical character of biblical revelation, it makes itself incapable of accepting the full truth of the incarnation itself. As regards relationships with God, fundamentalism seeks to escape any closeness of the divine and the human. It refuses to admit that the inspired word of God has been expressed in human language and that this word has been expressed, under divine inspiration, by human authors possessed of limited capacities and resources. For this reason, it tends to treat the biblical text as if it had been dictated word for word by the Spirit. It fails to recognize that the word of God has been formulated in language and expression conditioned by various periods. It pays no attention to the literary forms and to the human ways of thinking to be found in the biblical texts, many of which are the result of a process extending over long periods of time and bearing the mark of very diverse historical situations.

Fundamentalism also places undue stress upon the inerrancy of certain details in the biblical texts, especially in what concerns historical events or supposedly scientific truth. It often historicizes material which from the start never claimed to be historical. It considers historical everything that is reported or recounted with verbs in the past tense, failing to take the necessary account of the possibility of symbolic or figurative meaning.

Fundamentalism often shows a tendency to ignore or to deny the problems presented by the biblical text in its original Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek form. It is often narrowly bound to one fixed translation, whether old or present-day. By the same token it fails to take account of the "re-readings" () of certain texts which are found within the Bible itself.

In what concerns the Gospels, fundamentalism does not take into account the development of the Gospel tradition, but naively confuses the final stage of this tradition (what the evangelists have written) with the initial (the words and deeds of the historical Jesus). At the same time fundamentalism neglects an important fact: The way in which the first Christian communities themselves understood the impact produced by Jesus of Nazareth and his message. But it is precisely there that we find a witness to the apostolic origin of the Christian faith and its direct expression. Fundamentalism thus misrepresents the call voiced by the Gospel itself.

Fundamentalism likewise tends to adopt very narrow points of view. It accepts the literal reality of an ancient, out-of-date cosmology simply because it is found expressed in the Bible; this blocks any dialogue with a broader way of seeing the relationship between culture and faith. Its relying upon a non-critical reading of certain texts of the Bible serves to reinforce political ideas and social attitudes that are marked by prejudices—racism, for example—quite contrary to the Christian Gospel.
say what you want about the Catholic Church's ethics, these guys they're not morons. that's why they've been around almost two thousand years. you'll never find them insisting that the earth is 6,000 years old or that dinosaurs didn't exist the way moronic evangelist preachers do. they're smarter than that.

and the Church has been officially, ahem, "accepting" Darwin for more than 50 years now. not as the savior but as a good, sound scientist
posted by matteo at 4:57 PM on November 15, 2006 [12 favorites]


gurple:
This fundy athiest list looks like the product of NO research or thought to me.
posted by papakwanz at 5:04 PM on November 15, 2006


Yeah, that list is every bit the self-congratulatory sophistry it tries to mock. Of course, I am a fundamentalist atheist, so my opinions may be biased...
posted by lekvar at 5:08 PM on November 15, 2006


Wow, that's a pretty broad brush that includes Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists as well as atheists.

Also agnostics.
What's that, you say? Nobody gives two shit about agnostics?

Carry on then.
posted by spazzm at 5:08 PM on November 15, 2006


If he had only gotten this guy to swear on a Bible first ...
posted by adipocere at 5:11 PM on November 15, 2006


The comments on the linked blog follows an eery pattern.

One person points out the constitutional limits.
One person points out the direct proof of allegations.
...
One person shows off their failed schooling and lashes out at the first two.
...
The attack comments are carefully analyzed and torn apart by proper critique techniques.
...
The mode changes, and you get several individuals who insist they know the teacher and claim he should get off scott-free because he's a "good guy," dismissing the proof of his unlawfulness and proving that they just don't get what's at stake.
posted by mystyk at 5:31 PM on November 15, 2006


Sounds like he's trying to cut his workload in half and deliver the sermon at school as well as at church.
posted by rxrfrx at 5:33 PM on November 15, 2006


I have kids in high school, and the thing is that this guy is probably right. Most of them do belong in hell.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 5:39 PM on November 15, 2006


My sinuses hate you now, mr_crash_davis.
posted by zoogleplex at 5:41 PM on November 15, 2006


I wouldn't be surprised if he believes Catholics go to hell.

Yeah. Christians are pretty quick to turn on one another.


About ten years ago I had a paper route. This means you're going to be up between about three and six in the morning. I used to listen to an ultra right wing radio channel as I drove through my route. You know, for kicks.

Oliver North. Jay Seculo. Concerned Women For America. That whole crowd. Then there was "The Bible Answer Man" hosted by Hank Hanegraaff. He constantly referred to Catholicism as a cult.

He also told a crying little girl she wasn't going to see her dead puppy in heaven. Quite a piece of work, that guy.
posted by Cyrano at 5:43 PM on November 15, 2006


you know, back in high school we had a band teacher and an algebra teacher who were gay lovers, and we had a women's phys ed teacher who liked to watch the girls shower and a men's phys ed teacher who was a virulent baptist fundamental who hated hippies and was prone to lecture people about going to hell. everyone knew this shit about them and nobody got bashed about it because basically they were all good people. i'm getting pretty fucking sick of all he whining outrage.
posted by quonsar at 5:50 PM on November 15, 2006


I have kids in high school, and the thing is that this guy is probably right. Most of them do belong in hell.

Hence the required gym classes.
posted by weston at 5:54 PM on November 15, 2006


you know, back in high school we had a band teacher and an algebra teacher who were gay lovers

God, you're such a liar. There are no gay band teachers.
posted by hoborg at 6:02 PM on November 15, 2006


you're such a hoborg.
posted by quonsar at 6:07 PM on November 15, 2006


quonsar is so over the First Amendment it's not even funny.

Although I agree that if a person does their job well, who cares whom they fuck? The point here, as far as I can tell, is that this guy's job was to teach history, and he was teaching his own subjective brand of "what I think you should know." That is most certainly not history. Which means he wasn't doing his job. Which means he should be fired.

Good on this kid for making the recordings. I hope I'd have been that resourceful if confronted by a government-sponsored fundie.
posted by bardic at 6:08 PM on November 15, 2006


But from the story alone, this doesn't sound all that uncommon - which is more a commentary on American society than on this particular teacher.
This particular teacher is like many more recently, unfortunately--they think public school classrooms are the proper place for this off-topic religious insulting and lecturing. It's a reflection of decades of rightwing religious action trying to insert Christianity into our Public Schools. Lawsuits, taking over School Boards, protests, "bible history" and "bible as literature" classes...you get freelancers like this thinking it's ok, i guess.


quonsar, Just because you didn't speak up then (and you should have) is no reason to knock kids for speaking up now--this kid is the furthest thing from whining outrage--he took action.
posted by amberglow at 6:14 PM on November 15, 2006 [1 favorite]


Fundamentalist atheist? We believe in going back to the fundamentals of atheism; that On the Origin of Species in the original manuscript is inerrant; that deconversion is by grace alone; that Madalyn Murray O'Hare underwent national hatred to atone for our orgiastic, Satan-worshipping ways.

You in the reality-based community can come join us when you want. Until then, it's killing babies and lots of gay sex for us.
posted by adoarns at 6:20 PM on November 15, 2006 [2 favorites]


Testify, adoarns!
posted by lekvar at 6:26 PM on November 15, 2006


Ugh. Another damn atheist thread. When will you get it through your skulls that expecting not to be attacked for your religion by an educator paid by the state is not a right?

posted by languagehat at at 6:34 PM on November 15
posted by Optimus Chyme at 6:34 PM on November 15, 2006 [2 favorites]


I like this kid. Can someone buy him an account?
posted by LarryC at 6:38 PM on November 15, 2006


Let's review, for the slow:

A history teacher (or phys ed teacher) who is also a fundamentalist Christian and THINKING that students are hippies who will burn in hell: OK.

Teaching fundamentalist Christian doctrine and TELLING students in class that they will go to hell: Not OK.

A gay band teacher and a gay algebra teacher dating: OK.

A gay band teacher and a gay algebra teacher having sex in class in front of students: Not OK.

A (presumably lesbian?) women's phy ed teacher that likes to watch other women in the shower: OK

A (presumably lesbian?) women's phy ed teacher that actually watches underage girls in the shower: Not OK.
posted by papakwanz at 6:42 PM on November 15, 2006


THINKING = THINKS
posted by papakwanz at 6:43 PM on November 15, 2006


Jesus Christ!
posted by isopraxis at 6:48 PM on November 15, 2006 [1 favorite]


Personally, I've taught "Bible history" and "Bible as literature" type courses. I don't think that's the problem. Any reputable student of world history and traditions can present the material in an objectcive and interesting manner.

This guy, if proven to be what the article indicates, is a fraud on many levels, most importantly that of being a teacher. He doesn't deserve that title.
posted by bardic at 6:48 PM on November 15, 2006


Evangelical Group's Motto: Breed to Succeed
posted by homunculus at 6:49 PM on November 15, 2006


However, they might not have lurned to spel so gud.
posted by bardic at 6:49 PM on November 15, 2006


Guess I'll go back to reading Nietzsche's The Anti-Christ now....
posted by malaprohibita at 6:51 PM on November 15, 2006


you know, back in high school

yeah, we had a gay choir teacher and a biology teacher who had bible quotes pasted up on his walls and a "rally/concert" during school hours that turned out to be a christian band doing a little gig for jesus and campus life ... oh, and a teacher that was considered to be a radical godless commie because she ...

a) talked to the kids like human beings and had them call her by her first name
b) was against the war
c) and worst of all, had her students sit around in a circle and talk with each other instead of being lectured to by one person as they stared at the front of a classroom

but then, there's something to be said for long, non-subject matter lectures and digressions ... whether it be mrs commie giving us the lowdown on ahisma and ghandi's politics ... or mr p lecturing us on the stupidity of smoking and the way the oil companies and the president were taking us to the cleaners and corrupting our government ... or, yeah, mr m and his precious bible quotes on the walls and his longwinded defenses of traditional values ... (not to mention the day mr c outraged a class of algebra students by insisting there was no mathematical proof that 2+2=4)

i don't think that it's appropriate for people to preach religion in a public classroom ... and yet, it's done a lot more than people realize and students subjected to this don't necessarily end up following their teachers blindly ... and they're often exposed to opposing viewpoints by other teachers

when they turn 18 and get out into the real world, they're going to be exposed to these sorts of opinions ... people shouldn't use their position of authority as teachers to push their religious views ... and yet, people not only do this with religion, but with politics and other things and yet, students come away with diverse reactions to what they've heard

in short, i don't see this as a good thing, but i can't see it as an absolute evil, either

(oh, yeah, our female phys ed teacher liked to scope out the girls and was, um, butch ... interesting, eh?)
posted by pyramid termite at 6:55 PM on November 15, 2006


The irony of the situation described in homonculus's link is that when those kids turn 15 and rebel from their parents, they are going to produce some fantastic heavy metal.

Or they become serial killers. One or the other.
posted by Pastabagel at 7:03 PM on November 15, 2006


man, that fundie atheist link is so bad it hurts, and not in a good way.

108. You believe that "if it weren't for the U.S. Constitution, Christian leaders would be burning women at the stake."

274. You have fallen for the post-9/11 religious paranoia and think that all Christians are "potential" kamikazes.


WTF? I'm tempted to make my own "You may be a fundamentalist Christian if ..."

1. You eat your own poop every morning for breakfast.
2. You named your dog "Mel Gibson"
3. You don't let your wife fuck you in the ass with a strap-on on Sundays.
4. You find Carrot Top funny.
5. Repeat ad nauseam.

Complete and utter nonsense. I am sorry I clicked. Save yourselves.
posted by mrgrimm at 7:11 PM on November 15, 2006


The Fundamentalist Athiest site taught me this awesome phrase for evolution, which I think science should start using:

"from goo to you via the zoo"
posted by Bookhouse at 7:18 PM on November 15, 2006


Also, mrgrimm...
You declare on a public forum that you are "furious at God for not existing."

I know that I do that all the time.
posted by brundlefly at 7:26 PM on November 15, 2006


"from goo to you via the zoo"

i'll never understand why they get so hung up on this whole subject ... it's absurd
posted by pyramid termite at 7:29 PM on November 15, 2006


I don't know. I actually agree with a lot of those. For example:

You think that if schools teach the Intelligent Design theory of creation,they should also teach the "stork theory" of where babies come from.

Yup. Got it in one.
posted by George_Spiggott at 7:31 PM on November 15, 2006


I'm not about to defend this guy, but I think a lot of people have forgotten one essential truth: children learn from bad examples. A lot of my own character as an adult, and other people I have discussed the subject with say the same, comes from rejection of the example of foolish adults. "When I grow up, I am not going to be like that guy."

A child never exposed to any bad adult examples will grow up with some major flaws, including: (1) the assumption that all adult examples are to be followed, and therefore any bad adult example will be followed; and/or (2) since children do choose examples of adult behavior to reject as well as to emulate, they may choose good adult examples to reject.

So - accept the existence of the idiots and assholes of society, if for no other reason than that they may be mocked in front of children. If a child laughs at an adult, they are less likely to grow up in that adult's image.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 7:34 PM on November 15, 2006


That "fundy atheist" site clearly points out the fundamental problem with this type of X-ian -- if challenged, they become vindictive and mean, and point to the "burning pits of hell" as a good thing, at least as far as you are concerned. They want to see non-believers suffer forever. They actually look forward to it. This simply proves that they are profoundly sick and twisted. I pity them for their tiny little minds.
posted by mooncrow at 7:38 PM on November 15, 2006 [3 favorites]


if challenged, they become vindictive and mean, and point to the "burning pits of hell" as a good thing, at least as far as you are concerned.

My Catholic Sunday school experiences usually featured the kinder version of this. The truly sympathetic: “I feel sorry for nonbelievers – for the eternity of torment they bring upon themselves.” The first, vindictive version would just make me think that the person’s anger had gotten away from them. It was this compassionate damnation that truly made me think that the whole institution was completely fucked up.
posted by dreamsign at 8:26 PM on November 15, 2006


i don't think that it's appropriate for people to preach religion in a public classroom

It's also not legal, at least in America.

If you want your kids exposed to state-sponsored mythology, move to Saudi Arabia.
posted by bardic at 9:02 PM on November 15, 2006


I'd like to think that if there is a hell, it's full of those who reveled in the thought of others going there.

...


...


...which now that I think about it, roughly means that I'm one of them. Whoops.
posted by George_Spiggott at 9:21 PM on November 15, 2006


My Catholic Sunday school experiences usually featured the kinder version of this. The truly sympathetic: “I feel sorry for nonbelievers – for the eternity of torment they bring upon themselves.” The first, vindictive version would just make me think that the person’s anger had gotten away from them. It was this compassionate damnation that truly made me think that the whole institution was completely fucked up.

Believers of this "compassionate damnation" are really just participating in masturbatory self-congratulation. The underlying sentiment is invariably something along the lines of "I'm so strong and wise by accepting this horrible, painful inevitable 'truth' ".

Frankly, it's not dissimilar to what goes through the minds of torture apologetics.

/ too much experience with the fundie Christian mindset
posted by PsychoKick at 9:43 PM on November 15, 2006


As usual, this is an enviromental issue:
Too many christians, not enough lions.
posted by spazzm at 10:07 PM on November 15, 2006 [2 favorites]


Well, my brand of Christianity is far more compassionate. I believe that you are measured not by how much you love, but by how much you are loved.

And if you are loved by too few, you are ass-raped by monkeys for a thousand years. And then things get nasty.
posted by dreamsign at 10:11 PM on November 15, 2006


Hear hear, spazzm! Must start a "you know you're an agnostic if..." list sometime.

One day, some Mormons or something came to my house and asked what religion I was. I answered, "I'm agnostic." They looked at me blankly. So I attempted to explain how I think the most logical answer to the question of whether or not there's a God (or gods) is that it is impossible to prove either way. This the Mormons were not expecting, so they quickly moved on to the next house and I had myself a little giggle.
posted by tritisan at 10:30 PM on November 15, 2006


Teacher: You belong in hell.

Student: Already there, man.
posted by Poagao at 10:45 PM on November 15, 2006


Could be worse. He could be a science teacher.
posted by dgbellak at 11:18 PM on November 15, 2006


The practical outcome of this will be that students will be prevented from having recording devices in classes from now on. Inspections at the door, etc.. The majority of parents and school administrators will be offended by the objection to religion in classes, but outraged that a kid was able to prove it.
posted by jam_pony at 11:31 PM on November 15, 2006 [2 favorites]


This just proves I've been right all along: High school was meant to be escaped. The loosers are the ones who stayed.
posted by Goofyy at 2:48 AM on November 16, 2006


As usual, this is an enviromental issue:
"Too many christians, not enough lions.


It has recently come to my attention that there is no evidence that Christians were ever fed to lions by the Romans.

However Nero, being something of an inventive sort, did cover them in wax and set fire to them as they perched atop the columns that surrounded his arena which was located where you will now find St Peter's Basilica. They provided the light so that the citizens of Rome may see the entertainment that had been provided them.
posted by asok at 4:05 AM on November 16, 2006


I'd like to think that if there is a hell, it's full of those who reveled in the thought of others going there.

Ah, the abominable fancy. A small part of Christian theology ever since Thomas Aquinas! Who was a prat, by the way.

That 'fundie atheist' thing was a classic example of doublethink by idiots. Thanks for posting it, anyway.
posted by A Thousand Baited Hooks at 6:02 AM on November 16, 2006


I for one think the theory of evolution is a bunch of bullcrap..
posted by empath at 6:27 AM on November 16, 2006


Well, my brand of Christianity is far more compassionate. I believe that you are measured not by how much you love, but by how much you are loved.

I think this is how the google works?
posted by Dreamghost at 6:27 AM on November 16, 2006


As a Catholic, the Evolution part of "Might be a fundie atheist" site makes me cringe with disgust. This is how fundies enjoy poking holes and laughing at evolution. Sad part is this is not a case of hyperbole; I know plenty of "Christians" who pull out pieces from that list to discredit evolution.
posted by jmd82 at 6:28 AM on November 16, 2006


jam_pony: you're probably spot on, there.
posted by empath at 6:28 AM on November 16, 2006


Doesn't understand that "hell" in the original Bible languages refers to simply "the grave".

Ancient Hebrew? Absolutely. But by the time you get to the New Testament, you're talking Greek, and you've got ideas like "Gahenna" developing ... when you hear about Sheol, absolutely, but by the time you get to Jesus, you're talking about a very Hellenized society, and "hell" on Jesus' lips means something much closer to what we imagine today than just "the grave."
posted by jefgodesky at 6:57 AM on November 16, 2006


"A (presumably lesbian?) women's phy ed teacher that actually watches underage girls in the shower: Not OK."

If they're over the age of consent (16 in most U.S. states) they're not underage by definition. Furthermore, damn near everybody I ever took mass semi-public showers with expected to be watched, by the rest of the showerers as well as those whose job it was to supervise us: we watched each other because there was little else to do, and the Supervisors watched us because it's their job. As for whether anybody might enjoy watching anybody shower, the obvious response is "Would you rather s/he puke at the sight of your naked body? Or maybe point and giggle?"

The issue is not whether they like watching what is basically a semi-public spectacle, but whether they interfere with your showering to, oh, shove a broomstick up your ass. (Though many Mefites clearly did the latter themselves and still can't get that damn thing out.)
posted by davy at 7:02 AM on November 16, 2006


Oh come davy, that's a bit disingenuous. I read that comment as "leered at in the shower". Maybe I'm wrong, but I hardly think the bar should be set at a broomstick up the ass. Where are you sending your kids to school?
posted by dreamsign at 7:18 AM on November 16, 2006


man, that fundy atheist list sure is long. Does it really take so many examples to figure out if you're fundy or not?
posted by sineater at 8:06 AM on November 16, 2006


Maybe I'm wrong, but I hardly think the bar should be set at a broomstick up the ass. Where are you sending your kids to school?

i'm NOT sending them to bissel high school
posted by pyramid termite at 8:08 AM on November 16, 2006


The loosers are the ones who stayed.

Although, it must be said, they probably learned how to spell losers.
posted by kcds at 8:25 AM on November 16, 2006 [1 favorite]



I like how the Christian teacher who's trying to show his students the way, the truth and the life is perfectly willing to lie about it until backed into a corner by actual evidence.


And sometimes even that doesn't stop them. *cough cough... science*

You proably wont' have to worry about this guy too long, I bet. I'm sure the preacher-teacher will get caught sleeping around with some students soon enough. Because, you know, pretty much anything is ok when you can ask to be forgiven for it and be sure that people are gullible enough to actually forgive you for it.
posted by smallerdemon at 8:48 AM on November 16, 2006


You may be a fundamentalist atheist if you think...

Stop right there. You can just put a period at the end of that.
posted by smallerdemon at 8:52 AM on November 16, 2006


"You may be a fundamentalist atheist if you think...

Stop right there. You can just put a period at the end of that."

Zing!
posted by dazed_one at 12:51 PM on November 16, 2006 [1 favorite]


All in all, they're just another brick in the wall.

Gravity is just a theory too. :-)
posted by nofundy at 5:33 PM on November 16, 2006


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