In the eyes and mouth

November 23, 2006 10:12 PM

The 100 Most Powerful Women in the world has been an education in showing me the beauty inherent in strength, particularly when a woman has embraced her own sense of power. Look at these red lips, these kohl lined eyes, this frank face full of mischief. These are Queens, Presidents, Prime Ministers, Heads of State, powerful government officials, CEO's and more. Just reading their bios tells you so much about who they are and what they believe in. Would a similar collection of 100 men offer as much to ponder over and respect?
posted by infini (95 comments total)

Would a similar collection of 100 men offer as much to ponder over and respect?

Yeah, sure, why not?
posted by Pollomacho at 10:29 PM on November 23, 2006

Well then find some stuff for me :) I did a search for a list of the most powerful men and not much came up.
posted by infini at 10:32 PM on November 23, 2006

I won't derail the post, but I don't know how much Condoleeza Rice, Laura Bush, and the heads of MTV, Sara Lee, Citigroup and Kraft deserve respect. Aren't these women representing institutions that profit from the poisoning of our society and the domination and destruction of others? I'd rather see a list of 100 women who raise families, hold two jobs, brought themselves up from poverty into a middle class lifestyle, or raise a kid with autism. All those who quietly and tirelessly work to make their lives and the lives of those around them better, and who almost never get thanked or know relief.
posted by bukharin at 10:43 PM on November 23, 2006 [2 favorites]

Mmm, your initial link was probably enough, even though it's a Forbes article. The conflation with physical attributes and the "ponder over and respect" line is pushing the limit a bit. I mean, there's much to be said about power and money and it could do without the adulation.
posted by gsb at 10:47 PM on November 23, 2006

#18 Hillary Rodham Clinton, junior Senator from NY
#48 Nancy Pelosi Minority Leader, US House.

The article is dated August, 2006. I wonder how that changes now? Surely Nancy Pelosi has more than Mrs. Clinton?
posted by Goofyy at 10:48 PM on November 23, 2006

um, this post is one of them internet trollings i've heard so much about, right?

by the OP's definition george bush would be the most beautiful person in the world because of the way he and his "strong" flightsuit package have "embraced his power."
posted by facetious at 11:02 PM on November 23, 2006

It's an interesting, though dated, list and there is something beautiful (well, at least attractive) about a woman with power, but I don't think it's something you can see in photos. I mean, these red lips are meant to appear beautiful? Really?
posted by bunglin jones at 11:13 PM on November 23, 2006

.... What?
posted by jokeefe at 11:15 PM on November 23, 2006

Look at these red lips, these kohl lined eyes, this frank face full of mischief.
posted by Pollomacho at 11:22 PM on November 23, 2006 [1 favorite]

So the point here is that I should respect a woman because she has red lips, kohl-lined eyes, and a face full of mischief?
posted by blucevalo at 11:50 PM on November 23, 2006

No, bluecevalo, the point is, respect them or they'll have you upside down with a fork up your ass.
posted by Goofyy at 11:54 PM on November 23, 2006 [2 favorites]

No, bluecevalo, the point is, respect them or they'll have you upside down with a fork up your ass.

Oooh, promise?!?
posted by Pollomacho at 12:03 AM on November 24, 2006

I'm sounding like I don't have great respect for strong, confident women, sorry. I will shut up now and let people make their own calls about the thread and subject matter.
posted by Pollomacho at 12:12 AM on November 24, 2006

gracias, muy amigos
posted by infini at 12:19 AM on November 24, 2006

Dear Internet,

The great thing about women of power is that I'm physically attracted to them. And because I'm not attracted to men, strong and/or powerful men aren't interesting or deserving of respect.

Sincerely,
infini

P.S. - How great is that line "Just reading their bios tells you so much about who they are and what they believe in?" Next week on Infini's Playhouse, "Just watching a movie tells you so much about its storyline."
posted by shmegegge at 12:25 AM on November 24, 2006 [2 favorites]

Oooh nice one, but sadly its a friendly misunderstanding you are labouring under, sir.
posted by infini at 12:26 AM on November 24, 2006

Would a similar collection of 100 men offer as much to ponder over and respect?

Well, yes and much much more if power and money is what you're after. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

Well then find some stuff for me :) I did a search for a list of the most powerful men and not much came up.

Try Google.

The list of most powerful women in the world is quite noteworthy due to the traditionally subjugated role of women in society, not because they hold the most powerful or respected roles. It's quite the opposite. If you're saying the men have nothing worthy of respect or anything worth pondering, then you're just sexist.
posted by IronLizard at 12:30 AM on November 24, 2006

Thanks, infini, very friends to you, too.
posted by YoBananaBoy at 12:30 AM on November 24, 2006 [2 favorites]

Oooh nice one, but sadly its a friendly misunderstanding you are labouring under, sir.

So then what DID you mean to say?

Don't get me wrong, I think it's hysterical. I hope it never gets deleted, because this is a work of beauty and everyone should have a chance to weigh in.
posted by shmegegge at 12:39 AM on November 24, 2006

Some the ordering of this list seems quite strange, and it makes me wonder about how power is defined.
posted by sfts2 at 12:53 AM on November 24, 2006

Yes, if there's anything the world has taught me, it's that beauty is inherent in strength.
posted by dreamsign at 1:27 AM on November 24, 2006

The wording of this post? She is not attractive.
posted by peacay at 1:33 AM on November 24, 2006

The way this post is written makes me feel like I walked in on something I shouldn't have. It also gives me the same feeling I get when I hear men being fervently overfeminist thinking it's going to score them points with women and sounding incredibly insincere in the process.

Maybe you're not an insincere obseqiuous sycophantic faux-feminist, infini, but this sure makes me feel like you are.

I am often impressed by women in positions of power, and I think they bring a lot to positions that are only now in the modern era being filled by women for the first time. I imagine you'd find very few people who would disagree.

This post is just weird, though.

Uh.
posted by blacklite at 1:43 AM on November 24, 2006 [2 favorites]

Would a similar collection of 100 men offer as much to ponder over and respect?

If a PR firm had a commission to make so, most certainly. I still fail at understanding why should being a woman or a man be "proof" of something else than being a woman or a man

If anything I hope these woman will not fall into the same trap in which many man fell, which is learned mysoginism ; hopefully they will not turn into mysantropists , but I am not holding my breath as power usually corrupts.
posted by elpapacito at 1:44 AM on November 24, 2006

This post is just weird, though.

Uh.
posted by blacklite at 1:43 AM PST on November 24

Well, I do sincerely believe then that I would request you to flag this post for deletion,

best,
infini
posted by infini at 1:55 AM on November 24, 2006

Okay.

Regards.
posted by The Monkey at 1:59 AM on November 24, 2006

Yes, if there's anything the world has taught me, it's that beauty is inherent in strength

Totally hawt.
posted by public at 2:12 AM on November 24, 2006

infini is creepy as is his post.
posted by sic at 2:27 AM on November 24, 2006

infini: I liked the post, but! you shouldn't expose your feelings in an FPP, as there are those who take great joy in shredding those feelings, rather than discussing the content of the links.

blacklite:
I am often impressed by women in positions of power, and I think they bring a lot to positions that are only now in the modern era being filled by women for the first time.

Really? What exactly can a woman bring that a man can't? Do ovaries somehow impart some special wisdom?
posted by Goofyy at 2:30 AM on November 24, 2006

This will end well. No really, stop laughing.
posted by IronLizard at 2:35 AM on November 24, 2006

So... about that first link -- The "100 Most Powerful Women in the world" -- there are too many business executives on it. If that's what makes you powerful -- being a boss at Pepsi or Xerox -- they're no more interesting than the hundreds of "powerful" men they work with, the other suits at Pepsi and Xerox and the rest. Good at meetings, good at spreadsheets and project plans, good at keeping their ducks in a row, good at lots of things, but still just selling soft drinks and photocopiers.

Others on the list, I admire for what they do with those talents (many of which, of course, are the same talents that get you to the top of Pepsi or Xerox). Look at Angela Merkel:

The first female chancellor in Germany's history, and the first woman to lead Germany since it became a nation-state in 1871, Merkel is a favorite of German business. From humble beginnings as a Lutheran pastor's daughter in Hamburg, she graduated with a doctorate of physics from the University of Leipzig.

Blasted by brainpower and diplomatic skills into running one of the most powerful countries in the world. She has great potential for doing good (or evil, for that matter), and I'm not talking about blowing stuff up. Any bland social program she decides to push through or swat down could make the lives of millions of people better or worse. Whether she uses that potential or not, the potential (the power) is hers now.

Much better to be Portia Simpson Miller, PM of Jamaica (number 89 on the list), or Luisa Diogo, PM of Mozambique (number 83 on the list), and change the course of your nation than to run Pepsi (we have always been at war with Coca-Cola) and get picked (by a business magazine, of course) for 4th place.
posted by pracowity at 2:51 AM on November 24, 2006 [1 favorite]

*continues nonetheless to roflmao*
posted by infini at 2:51 AM on November 24, 2006

Apparently, none of these women know their limits.
posted by Drexen at 3:18 AM on November 24, 2006

Myself, I'm fascinated to see some corporate executives (not even CEO's) out-rank Queen Elizabeth. I do wonder about their definitions of 'power', but I'm don't have the time to delve deep into the details, if they are even there.
posted by Goofyy at 3:19 AM on November 24, 2006

This post is really weird and power lists are pretty stupid as they're way too subjective. We suffer a massive surfeit of these lame litanies. The only lists worth looking at are well-researched rich lists.
posted by rhymer at 4:02 AM on November 24, 2006

insincere obsequious sycophantic faux-feminist

Found my sock-puppet name!
posted by atchafalaya at 4:22 AM on November 24, 2006

...the beauty inherent in strength, particularly when a woman has embraced her own sense of power. Look at these red lips, these kohl lined eyes, this frank face full of mischief.

You do realise, infini, that this phrasing makes you sound like the sort of man who spends his working week being casually misogynist and spends every weekend trussed up in a dungeon paying a dominatrix to punch him in the balls? (Seriously, I have a friend who works in a dungeon, and this is exactly the tone and vocabulary of the panting emails she receives from clients detailing their requirements for a session.)
posted by jack_mo at 5:07 AM on November 24, 2006 [1 favorite]

meh. No Canadians.
posted by greedo at 5:50 AM on November 24, 2006

I thought infini was a woman - judging by the page linked from her/his profile (now removed I think). I think that makes some difference, but I'm not sure what ...
posted by paduasoy at 5:56 AM on November 24, 2006

Diane Sawyer has more power than the president of Latvia? Laura Bush has more power than the president of jamaica? Jane Harmon's not on the list?
posted by DenOfSizer at 6:05 AM on November 24, 2006

PS Great mash-up w/ th e "women, know your limits" link
posted by DenOfSizer at 6:07 AM on November 24, 2006

You do realise, infini, that this phrasing makes you sound like the sort of man who spends his working week being casually misogynist and spends every weekend trussed up in a dungeon paying a dominatrix to punch him in the balls?

I've near-posted and deleted that comment almost exactly twice now. Glad somebody said it.
posted by dreamsign at 6:19 AM on November 24, 2006

I thought this post was supposed to be a scathing commentary of the double standard where women are judged by their appearance in avenues where they should be judged on accomplishments. But I guess it wasn't really.

What exactly can a woman bring that a man can't?
Conceivably, quite a lot, different genders get quite different life experiences. I'm not saying women would be better world leaders, though. Those who are drawn to power are usually the ones I would least like to hold it, regardless of gender.
posted by bobobox at 6:24 AM on November 24, 2006

A similar collection of men would indicate that humans of BOTH sexes in positions of corporate power tend to be heartless psychos!
posted by algreer at 7:19 AM on November 24, 2006

Well, (woman here) I won't speculate as to infini's motives, but the wording of the post didn't creep me out - it angered me. We still can't talk about women in power without blathering on about how they look?
posted by gaspode at 7:29 AM on November 24, 2006 [4 favorites]

It's actually a weird list. To rank Zoe Cruz and Sallie Krawcheck, who are exceptionally successful executives but who have to answer to a CEO every day of the week, as more powerful than Oprah Winfrey or Hillary Clinton makes very little sense.
posted by MattD at 7:45 AM on November 24, 2006

i expect nancy pelosi's status to rise any minute now.
posted by brandz at 7:53 AM on November 24, 2006

I'm so glad we had this opportunity to read about powerful women and focus on their looks instead of their accomplishments. There's simply not enough of that in our world, so thanks, infini.
posted by jacquilynne at 7:53 AM on November 24, 2006

Wow, what a sexist post. I mean, the whole thing is talking about how accomplished women are "sexy." I mean I realize women do discuss how powerful men are sexually appealing from time to time, but it seems like bringing up a womans power only as a facet of their sexuality is pretty demeaning.

After reading the whole thread, I'm surprised no one brought this up.

Much better to be Portia Simpson Miller, PM of Jamaica (number 89 on the list), or Luisa Diogo, PM of Mozambique (number 83 on the list), and change the course of your nation than to run Pepsi (we have always been at war with Coca-Cola) and get picked (by a business magazine, of course) for 4th place.

If the list were of people who had a chance to improve the world. Interesting tidbit: The GDP of Jamaica is 11 billion, the GDP of Mozambique is 23 billion, and the market cap of pepsico is 102 billion.
posted by delmoi at 7:58 AM on November 24, 2006

After reading the whole thread, I'm surprised no one brought this up.

Err, actually it looks like a couple of people did by the end of the thread.
posted by delmoi at 7:59 AM on November 24, 2006

I matured sexually during Thatcherism and never once did she feature in any of my erotic dreams. But in her early years Thatcher seemed to have been a fetish object for a certain type of man.
posted by meehawl at 8:22 AM on November 24, 2006

particularly when a woman has embraced her own sense of power. Look at these red lips, these kohl lined eyes,...

So, a woman who has embraced her own sense of power must therefore also have embraced a Sephora gift card?

Honestly, is there another way to read this? infini, if you can explain, without being sexist, misogynistic, or a complete sub, why you believe that lipstick and eyeliner show that a woman has "embraced her own sense of power", I'm honestly curious to see you do it.
posted by tzikeh at 8:24 AM on November 24, 2006

What's with the title? "In the eyes and mouth"?
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 8:25 AM on November 24, 2006

That's where they get a load of spooge every night from their lord and master back home.
posted by snoktruix at 8:32 AM on November 24, 2006

Aha. I didn't realize "mischief" was a code word for "cum".
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 8:34 AM on November 24, 2006

Power is sexy? Who's ever heard of something like this.
posted by shownomercy at 8:39 AM on November 24, 2006

Also, what is forbes?
posted by shownomercy at 8:39 AM on November 24, 2006

I see Nina Hartley was conspicuously absent from the list.
posted by rougy at 8:55 AM on November 24, 2006

fwiw... 50 Women to Watch: A New Crop of Leaders ...and that's crop
posted by kliuless at 9:52 AM on November 24, 2006

Well, infini, I for one appreciate the post, even if it does have an opinion. The subtlety of the point you make ("the inherent beauty in strength") seems to be lost on some who miss the point and focus on "red lips" or have a mind in the gutter with respect to the title. It is perfectly alright to discuss the physical attributes of powerful people as manifestations of their strength. The powerful, as well as most of the rest of us, get haircuts and choose wardrobes to help us achieve who we are. Commenting on these things is not sexist. And, looking back at your previous posts, they have been well-crafted and an asset to this site. Thanks.
posted by beagle at 9:57 AM on November 24, 2006 [2 favorites]

I'm going to do something completely NUTTY and comment on the content. I know! Can you believe it?

As I scrolled through to the end of the list, that little song started playing in my head: "One of these things is not like the other."

Do you think we'd ever see a list of the one hundred most powerful men in the world, where one of the men is on the list solely because he happens to be married to a powerful woman? Yeah. I didn't think so either.
posted by ereshkigal45 at 10:05 AM on November 24, 2006 [1 favorite]

I'm a woman, and I think I look ghastly in blood-red lipstick and dark eyeliner. Does this mean I'm not suitable for a position of power? I mean, the sentence doesn't quite sound the same when it's "Look at these Nude Plum lips, these Coffee-lined eyes..."

Okay, okay. Bandwagoning aside, the point of this post was a little difficult to follow. I appreciate the nod to women in positions of power, but revering all women in all powerful roles is no better than denying all women all such roles. Particularly when so much attention is devoted to how she looks. Save that for a beauty pageant.

As a side note... I do think Queen Rania is one of the prettiest people, like, ever. But that's got nothing to do with her leadership skills.
posted by katillathehun at 10:55 AM on November 24, 2006

if the link from infini's profile is reliable, then infini is a woman and likely straight. this sort of demolishes the idea (one I held) that the post is a form of faux-feminist sensitivity designed to impress naive women.

but of course, that doesn't free infini from the charge of blatantly (intentionally or otherwise) objectifying women of power based on their makeup and physical appearance. I've read articles about how the influence of female peers is often a factor in the social predisposition women can inherit to view themselves in an objectified manner. I'd like to think that this is an example of that. Nothing malicious, obviously, but merely the result of an unfortunate tendency to equate worth with physical beauty.

Still, there was a good post to make of this list, possibly, but this wasn't it.
posted by shmegegge at 11:14 AM on November 24, 2006 [2 favorites]

Do you think we'd ever see a list of the one hundred most powerful men in the world, where one of the men is on the list solely because he happens to be married to a powerful woman?

Who, Melinda Gates? She does help to run a giant oganization that is making a real (and positive) difference on a world scale. Regardless of how they get there -- married into power, born into royalty, knew someone who got her on a fast track, etc. -- it's where they are now and what they do that counts. Men also get breaks like that.
posted by pracowity at 11:28 AM on November 24, 2006

I need to cross-reference the list with this one to see who really rules the roost.
posted by acetonic at 12:06 PM on November 24, 2006

I matured sexually during Thatcherism

I matured sexually while reading this post.
posted by found missing at 12:13 PM on November 24, 2006

You do realise, infini, that this phrasing makes you sound like the sort of man who spends his working week being casually misogynist and spends every weekend trussed up in a dungeon paying a dominatrix to punch him in the balls?

I've near-posted and deleted that comment almost exactly twice now. Glad somebody said it.
posted by dreamsign at 6:19 AM PST on November 24



damn, its been six years and I still sound like the insane male I was married off to a week after I met him for the first time. @#$%^&

:P

nb: serious clarification on the comment on the eyes and mouth - if you go through all their faces, the ones who are truly comfortable with their facility to effect positive change in the world can be identified with a certain look in their eye and the set of their mouth. these women have had to claw their way up through patriarchal conservative communities to reach where they have. note the chairman of Haier group.

the ones who are just figureheads don't have such a look on their face, witness katie couric. buffetted by the winds of chance.

imho.

ps. yes I'm absolutely straight and female
posted by infini at 12:50 PM on November 24, 2006

Who, Melinda Gates?

No. Not Melinda Gates. Not Queen Rania either. They both seem to be fully and thoroughly involved in the causes for which they work, rather than mere figureheads.
posted by ereshkigal45 at 12:50 PM on November 24, 2006

I assumed he meant Laura Bush.
posted by jacquilynne at 12:51 PM on November 24, 2006

nb: serious clarification on the comment on the eyes and mouth - if you go through all their faces, the ones who are truly comfortable with their facility to effect positive change in the world can be identified with a certain look in their eye and the set of their mouth. these women have had to claw their way up through patriarchal conservative communities to reach where they have. note the chairman of Haier group.

I think you're projecting, like, a lot.
posted by delmoi at 1:11 PM on November 24, 2006

Meta.
posted by meech at 1:25 PM on November 24, 2006

its been six years and I still sound like the insane male I was married off to a week after I met him for the first time.

*head explodes*
posted by dhammond at 1:44 PM on November 24, 2006

No, bluecevalo, the point is, respect them or they'll have you upside down with a fork up your ass.

So the point here is that Michael Richards is a psychotic drag queen?
posted by blucevalo at 2:12 PM on November 24, 2006

Look at these red lips

It's called lipstick.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:14 PM on November 24, 2006

Thanks for the post, infini. :)
posted by ruelle at 2:14 PM on November 24, 2006

My two favorite women of that list are Saudi:

Nahed Taher
&
Lubna Olayan
posted by ruelle at 2:18 PM on November 24, 2006

Of the first 25, 17 are corporate executives, almost none of whom really belong on such a list at all. The Forbes article is merely an exercise in flattering one's advertisers-- something of a specialty (raison d'etre, really) of that magazine.

By strength of will and conviction, infini has kind of redeemed it, to my astonishment.
posted by jamjam at 2:32 PM on November 24, 2006

like the insane male I was married off to a week after I met him for the first time.

Whoa-ho! How'd that happen? I mean, if you don't mind my asking. Your phrasing sounds like maybe this wasn't a choice.
posted by katillathehun at 2:35 PM on November 24, 2006

Aren't these women representing institutions that profit from the poisoning of our society and the domination and destruction of others? I'd rather see a list of 100 women who raise families, hold two jobs, brought themselves up from poverty into a middle class lifestyle...

you mean the middle-class lifestyle that profits from the poisoning of our society and the domination and destruction of others?
posted by quonsar at 2:47 PM on November 24, 2006 [2 favorites]

Whoa-ho! How'd that happen? I mean, if you don't mind my asking. Your phrasing sounds like maybe this wasn't a choice.
posted by katillathehun at 2:35 PM PST on November 24

while I never directly felt pressured by my parents, society can offer peer pressure of its own kind, looking askance at responsible fathers unable to find a suitable boy for their unmarried 30+ daughter who's having way to much fun running her own business launching jack daniels in india. I prefer laphroig though, meself.
posted by infini at 2:56 PM on November 24, 2006

Would a similar collection of 100 men offer as much to ponder over and respect?

No. Men are, as we all know, fundamentally different from other humans. Actually, they're barely human at all.

You know it makes sense: In the name of equality, we must learn to think of women as superior and men as inferior.
posted by spazzm at 3:28 PM on November 24, 2006

The women on this list are clearly just in need a good rogering.
posted by Justinian at 6:54 PM on November 24, 2006

Rogering? or Rogering?

Although I'm guessing that the majority of women on that list get more rogering than most of us.
posted by watsondog at 11:19 PM on November 24, 2006

Although I agree that the "eyes and mouth" comment was a bit strange. Coloured grease smeared on your face does not change the person you are.
posted by watsondog at 11:20 PM on November 24, 2006

The list is bogus because jessamyn is not featured.
posted by Cranberry at 12:14 AM on November 25, 2006

I assumed he meant Laura Bush.

Ah, the Bush woman! I didn't notice her.

But "First Ladies" are part of the American election process, too, aren't they? They are part of the advertised package people choose -- you judge the candidate's character in part by the sort of spouse the candidate has, and you know that the "First Lady" will even be given duties now. Hillary didn't stay home and bake while Bill went to the office. No more SAHM First Ladies. That's what the First Nanny is for.

Someday soon, there'll be a "First Gentleman" (?) and he'll be running certain government projects only because his wife is president.
posted by pracowity at 12:43 AM on November 25, 2006

> Someday soon, there'll be a "First Gentleman" (?) and he'll be running certain government projects only
> because his wife is president.

I'll take the Defense portfolio, dear. And be home in time to cook dinner. Not conflicted, I am.
posted by jfuller at 5:20 AM on November 25, 2006

infini: "gracias, muy amigos"

Thanks, very friends?
posted by signal at 5:34 AM on November 25, 2006

> We still can't talk about women in power without blathering on about how they look?

This point will be worth making after women in powerful positions have stopped wearing lipstick and makeup and other stigmata of bondage that shout "Look at my physical appearance." As long as they still do, people will look.
posted by jfuller at 5:57 AM on November 25, 2006 [1 favorite]

They'll keep doing that so long as people keep acting like their physical appearance is what's important about their power. When people stop doing that, they'll stop wearing the stigma (stigmata are christ's wounds) of bondage.
posted by shmegegge at 8:04 AM on November 25, 2006

.... What?

My ...non-thought exactly.
This is a weird and depressing presentation, unless it's meant as a joke, in which case it's just poorly done.

The link itself is mildly interesting, if a bit creepy. The pics of the two linked as "red lips" both look as silly in lipstick as donald trump would, to me. Men seem to have an easier time realizing that "looking good" is mostly for someone else's benefit, and while it can make you feel good, it is ultimately derivative power.
posted by mdn at 10:41 AM on November 25, 2006

Men seem to have an easier time realizing that "looking good" is mostly for someone else's benefit, and while it can make you feel good, it is ultimately derivative power.
posted by mdn at 10:41 AM PST on November 25

if you've never understood the power that comes from a good manicure and pedicure and haircut...
posted by infini at 11:24 AM on November 25, 2006

okay, that's the first time I've ever heard anyone reference the "power pedicure"...

but look, obviously good presentation is something all powerful people have to pay some level of attention to - I wasn't claiming that men don't understand they have to project a certain image, and all that. However, it's just part of the game, not the central criterion. And more pertinent, for women, we're not just talking about being clean & well groomed. The submissive adornments of youthful lips and round child-like eyes etc do not so much convey intrinsic strength and leadership as a strange combination of dated traditional notions of female beauty with emerging pride in new roles. It doesn't all hang together very well, it seems to me.
posted by mdn at 2:21 PM on November 25, 2006

"I kiss you!"
-infini
posted by Deathalicious at 12:06 AM on November 26, 2006

*giggle*
posted by infini at 2:51 AM on November 26, 2006