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Boom Car Noise
March 11, 2007 8:35 PM   Subscribe

Weird boom car/subwoofer ads and more of the same. Another happy noise hater. NoiseOff's myth of loud m/c pipes is interesting. Ironically titled Hurt Report (pdf) about m/c safety. Previously, related with a dead link that seemed to be about Noise Awareness day, coming up in April, the significance of which is that people with hearing problems or different hearing issues are more troubled by noise than the average person. Obviously I 'm sympathetic to noise sufferers, since I am one, but I am not involved in any of the linked sites.
posted by Listener (63 comments total)

 
The sex-via-noise theory

that makes a lot of sense to me. modded mufflers? same thing. read about crazy frog, youtube.
posted by phaedon at 8:46 PM on March 11, 2007


I obtain strange amusement when a car's sound system is so loud that it vibrates the body panels, creating a sort of metallic flatulent sound...
posted by Tube at 8:50 PM on March 11, 2007


I am an avid motorcyclist (have ridden 4 days in a row now with the early spring) and I HATE the "loud pipes" people.

What they don't understand is that most people already disapprove of our activity, and they WILL legislate it out from underneath us.

The "loud pipes" people are pompous, selfish jackasses. I hope every one of them go deaf from sitting on top of their illegal noise machines.

I use stock pipes, AND I wear earplugs.
posted by Ynoxas at 8:58 PM on March 11, 2007


I hate loud car audio as much as the next person, but the person who created the car ad pages needs to get the stick out of their butt.

My word! They're using sex to sell car speakers, how shameful. No one else would stoop that low. Except for every other industry on earth.
posted by zabuni at 8:59 PM on March 11, 2007


eponysterical!
posted by empath at 9:00 PM on March 11, 2007


I've long wanted to make a t-shirt that says, simply, "I hate you and your loud car."
posted by Afroblanco at 9:01 PM on March 11, 2007 [1 favorite]


I really hate super loud Harley-style engines. The people who drive those things are really obnoxious.
posted by delmoi at 9:10 PM on March 11, 2007


Off road motorcycles are limited to 96db in many California State parks. Why aren't street bikes aren't regulated I will never know.

Things would change quickly if a loud pipe meant a traffic stop and an expensive ticket.

[I ride off-road myself and am a former street bike rider]
posted by vaportrail at 9:19 PM on March 11, 2007


Almost without fail, when I hear a loud bike it is running like shit. And of course the moron riding it doesn't even know it.
posted by 2sheets at 9:32 PM on March 11, 2007


Loud pipes are a juvenile power-trip; likewise loud car audio.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:57 PM on March 11, 2007


Harley once tried unsuccessfully to trademark the distinctive sound their pipes make.

I seem to recall reading or hearing once that some Japanese bike maker had resorted to configuring the engine management chips on their bikes to run slightly rough at idle, in order to mimic the somewhat choppier sound a Harley makes. I googled around, but don't have a cite for this.
posted by popechunk at 10:43 PM on March 11, 2007


the proverbial stick in the butt ought be removeth
posted by phaedon at 11:12 PM on March 11, 2007


Yeah, as a motorcyclist, the loud pipes are obnoxious. Feel the same way about loud car exhausts and loud stereos.

Has there ever been a female in the short history of motors who has heard any of the above and thought "I must have that man?"
posted by maxwelton at 12:13 AM on March 12, 2007


maxwelton, why yes, and their names are Tigra and Bunny.
posted by thedaniel at 12:45 AM on March 12, 2007


The whistles go Whooo-WOOOOOO!
posted by PeterMcDermott at 12:59 AM on March 12, 2007 [2 favorites]


The "loud pipes" people are pompous, selfish jackasses.

A-fucking-men. On of my favorite cycling trails is basically ruined by the loud-pipe assholes riding on the road next to it. I don't have enough hearing left to be able to ride it safely when the weather's nice.

Harley-Davidson V-twins are the worst -- they're already slow turning, large cylinder beasts, with loud pipes, they're basically jackhammers with jackasses.

Wearing earplugs isn't a option on the bike -- I need to hear around me for safety.

Loud cars are fucking annoying, but I haven't run across one that was as painfully damaging to my ears as a large V-twin with drilled pipes.

Off road motorcycles are limited to 96db in many California State parks.

Ditto Missouri, which has also made a couple of parks explicitly for motorized trail riding. To which I say "Yes." The dirtbike gang gets a place to play where they can let rip, and I can hike in peace in the next park over.
posted by eriko at 5:25 AM on March 12, 2007


I ride a bike, and I am not a big fan of loud Harleys - but the roar of an accelerating Ducati 900 is music. There are different kinds of loud, I guess.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:07 AM on March 12, 2007


Me, I curse at transit buses.

Seriously. On my lunch hour I sometimes unwind by taking a walk in the area of my university campus, in a medium-sized not too congested city, while listening to podcasts or an audiobook on an MP3 player. With ordinary traffic, it's possible to keep the earphone volume at a reasonable constant level and not miss anything. But let a university shuttle bus or a city bus go by, or a commercial truck, and forget about ten or fifteen seconds' worth of dialogue.
posted by Creosote at 6:07 AM on March 12, 2007


zabuni writes "I hate loud car audio as much as the next person, but the person who created the car ad pages needs to get the stick out of their butt."

That or replace it with a larger one, repeatedly. However once you realise the writer is over the top indignant the commentary is kind of funny.
posted by Mitheral at 6:59 AM on March 12, 2007


Wow, a lot of hate for Harleys out there in mefi land. I consider them a great economy vehicle. Mine gets me back and forth to work at 53 mpg and only cost me $4K (used) and I will probably be able to sell it for about the same when I'm done with it.
Why no hate for the japanese cars with the huge fart bazoka mufflers sticking out the back?
posted by 445supermag at 7:02 AM on March 12, 2007


eh, i have a couple harleys. They're louder than a bmw/oldwing/etc... i wouldn't consider them obnoxiously loud though. Then again, i'm not a dick and don't sit and rev my motor to make sure everyone around me knows how "cool" i am. I leave that to the poser drs & lawyers & crap on their new shiny bikes.
posted by jbelshaw at 7:12 AM on March 12, 2007


445supermag writes "Why no hate for the japanese cars with the huge fart bazoka mufflers sticking out the back?"

Listener didn't link to a report calling out ricer mufflers.
posted by Mitheral at 7:16 AM on March 12, 2007


I hate loud pipes too, but I don't see anything more than speculation in the myth of loud m/c pipes link. In the Rider Safety section it reads
Although it may seem obvious that the noise emitted by loud motorcycle exhaust systems would aid in conspicuity and cause more watchful driving by other motorists, in reality there hasn't been a single thoughtful study done that supports this theory. To the contrary, there are several via the Internet that prove otherwise.
Well, how about a citation, or even a link to one of these studies? A little quick googling turns up a handful of articles (not studies) claim that loud pipes are not helpful in avoiding the most common accident which occur between an oncoming or turning vehicle in front of the cycle. But there's a difference between a safety study and an opinion piece so I'm not convinced the claim is either valid or that it has been properly refuted.

This topic makes me think of this line from Faulkner about Abner Snopes: "His father mounted to the seat where the older brother already sat and struck the gaunt mules two savage blows with the peeled willow, but without heat. It was not even sadistic; it was exactly that same quality which in later years would cause his descendants to over-run the engine before putting a motor car into motion, striking and reining back in the same movement." It makes me wonder what Faulkner would write about car stereos.
posted by peeedro at 7:31 AM on March 12, 2007


If you see a shop that offers loud exhaust systems opening up in your community, organize with your neighbors and stage a protest. Make picket signs and send a media alert to local newspaper and television news outlets so they can cover the event.

There's a realistic and nuanced response. Especially considering 99.9% of shops will install louder than stock mufflers.
posted by Mitheral at 8:11 AM on March 12, 2007


445supermag, stock Harleys are fine, it's the ones with modified exhaust systems we're talking about. You can hear some of these from about a mile away; up close they are damagingly loud. You can't talk to the person next to you when one of these bikes rumbles by. Your right to express yourself ends at the tip of my nose, know what I mean?
posted by Mister_A at 8:17 AM on March 12, 2007


445supermag: I have no particular hatred for Harleys... I don't own one because I'm a piss-poor mechanic, and owning a Harley and not being able to wrench it yourself is simply too expensive of a proposition.

I hate *ANY* bike that has super-loud, purposefully loud, aftermarket pipes. I don't care if it is from Wisconsin or Osaka or Munich or Turin if it rattles the windows as it goes by.

For those who might read this and aren't "into" motorcycles, you have to understand, there are some motorcycle exhausts that are purpose-built to maximize the sound of their pipes. That is their sole selling point.

For people who are simply improving the performance of their bike, and along with that comes a modest increase in noise, I overlook it. It is the people that purposefully value VASTLY increased noise for its own sake that drive me batty.
posted by Ynoxas at 8:17 AM on March 12, 2007


My 1100 V-Twin (w/ baffles removed) is so loud, I can barely hear you ninnies whining. Think about how a great number (no stats) of automobile drivers claim to not have seen the motorcycle that they hit and you will know why my bike is big, loud and obnoxious. My bright lights are ALWAYS on. You may not see me but, hopefully you will HEAR me before you FEEL me.
Suck-it haters.
You wanna hate a sound, hows about every kid that gets a Mustang, runs out and gets the cheapest (read: loudest) single chamber flow-masters he can afford and proceedes to really load up the clutch at every take-off? What about THAT GUY?

Loud-n-proud in La.
posted by winks007 at 8:40 AM on March 12, 2007


All that crap about how loud music is supposedly tied exclusively to Hip-Hop culture makes me laugh, around here we get people driving by blasting country.
posted by Cyclopsis Raptor at 8:42 AM on March 12, 2007


PeterMcDermott posted the best link ever, and i think nobody noticed
posted by phaedon at 8:46 AM on March 12, 2007


winks007, do you even believe that the loud pipes are about safety? In your heart, do you honestly think you'd ride around with your horn stuck in the on position if loud exhaust pipes didn't exist?
posted by popechunk at 9:24 AM on March 12, 2007


winks007: Suck-it haters.
...
Loud-n-proud in La.


Exactly. "I drive a loud bike because FUCK YOU!!!" Wonder what that noise does for your own ability to hear traffic around you? Bah -- I'm sure you have noise-canceling cocleae...

You prolly don't wear a helmet, either, because, you know, they muffle your hearing. Ya hear everybody?? It's all about safety!

The problem will solve itself.

(on preview, popechunk: Haha, next time I approach a bike with loud pipes, I'm gonna lean on the horn for as long as I'm in his presence -- just so he knows I'm there, naturally. Safety first! I hope it's a long redlight.)
posted by LordSludge at 9:32 AM on March 12, 2007


I am fond of my Loud Pipes Save Lives t-shirt. Go bagpipes. Loud motorcycles: pipe down.
posted by cairnish at 9:53 AM on March 12, 2007


Eh, study or not, I have plenty of anecdotal evidence, both personal and from friends, that loud pipes get other drivers to notice you.

It's dangerous out there.. People don't look, ever. Maybe it's a byproduct of commuting in a city with some of the worse drivers around, I dont know.

Sludge, if you're a (full time) cager you just don't get it. A near miss or two and you'd change your tune, I bet.
posted by kableh at 10:09 AM on March 12, 2007


Lord Sludge, we have helemt laws, thanks to Blanco!
Not to derail here, according to state police, when you are in a car and not belted in, you are a 180lb projectile being tossed about and a hazard to others in your car, if that were the case, I should be able to drive w/o my seat belt fastened if I am alone, huh?

Govenor Foster removed the helmet law and one of the first thing Blanco did after taking office was put that law back into enforcement.

I can also throw a 8'-10' propane flame out of my Vance and Hines exhaust with the push of a button. Ever see the paint on your Honda bumper cover blister? Not a pretty sight. Also, your horn unfortunatley, is yours to blow.

Remember when you do decide to lean on your horn, you are doing to others what you do not like done to you. I guess since you weren't first, it's o.k.?

If you aggravate a tatooed, shaved head, motorcyclist that really enjoys his hi-perfomance machine, you are taking your own safety for granted and there is nothing you can do if I decide to roll right up next to you at the very next light and rev it like a college kid in a Honda.

I'm quite certain that my loud exhaust pipes do not hinder your ability to hear traffic around you. Do you feel the same way about trains, planes?

You know the saying: If it's too loud, you're too old.

popechunk, I never really though of it that way. I consider an always ON horn to be a nuisance, kinda like a car alarm, not exactly accident prevention. You probably don't even look twice for a car alarm, you look twice if I rev when you are trying to get on my bumper at a stop light.

If it's any consolation to those of you that have hearing problems, sorry, I did not make my bike loud in order to damage ears. I did what I thought would help me be more "visible/Audible" so that I can make it home to the fam at the end of the night.

I can hear your bitching though, Lima Charlie.
posted by winks007 at 10:24 AM on March 12, 2007


kableh, then you know how we ride everywhere with one foot ready to hit the brakes and one hand on the brake lever, at the ready on every occupied road. I'm sure that not very many car drivers ride with their foot over, not on, over the brake pedal. Do they (not you) know why - they're not afraid that somone is going to cream them at EVERY INTERSECTION.

If I get to live another night and lordsludge merely gets 10 seconds of ambient internal combusion exhaust, then it was a good night afterall.
posted by winks007 at 10:32 AM on March 12, 2007


winks007: Your viewpoint is way too myopic. Especially there in California, there is pressure to do something, legally, about the noisy exhausts.

There are moves afoot that would make many STOCK mufflers too loud.

By flagrantly abusing those around you with your purposefully unreasonable sound levels, all you are likely to accomplish is to help get laws passed that make our bikes even more restricted performance wise.

I crack up at the "if they can't see me, at least they can hear me" responses. If someone is an inattentive driver, they are inattentive with ALL of their senses. It's not like someone is driving with their eyes closed and listening carefully to every sound.

Driving I would guess is maybe 80% visual, 20% auditory.

You would be much better off painting your bike Hi-Viz Orange and wearing a white helmet than slapping on some loud pipes. But of course, safety colors and reflective tape aren't cool like loud pipes are.

Basically, some people like the loud pipes, and they've manufactured this myth to justify it.

I want you to arrive safe as well winks, but I don't think that the loud pipes are what stand between you and safety.

There is also a spectrum here. There is a difference between "louder" full replacement systems, and baffleless straight pipes.

Looking at this another way, how loud would you like your pipes if you could just set them to any setting between library and nuclear blast? Would you like them to sound like a 747 on the tarmac? Would that be loud enough?

As far as the propane flame, I've seen those, and I hope you're talking about a show bike. Having that on the street should get you arrested, the bike confiscated, and your license lost. Seriously, that's fucking childish and ridiculous, and it makes it hard to take anything you say seriously. It makes you at best a vandal and at worst a sociopath.
posted by Ynoxas at 10:49 AM on March 12, 2007


Ynoxas, I can admit there is a middle ground. The situations where I've had a loud (not unbaffled, just aftermarket) exhaust save my ass is in traffic, especially while approaching a vehicle from behind. People - at least here in Florida - can't be bothered to check their blind spot or check their mirrors before making a lane change without signaling.

There's plenty of situations where loud pipes won't help. Getting creamed by someone running a stop sign or red light is a prime example. So you're certainly right on that count.
posted by kableh at 11:00 AM on March 12, 2007


Eh, study or not, I have plenty of anecdotal evidence, both personal and from friends, that loud pipes get other drivers to notice you.

I ride motorcycle. I understand your fear of cagers. They are all, universally and perpetually, retarded blind assholes who'll kill us in a heartbeat. Every g.d. one of them needs to take a motorcycle riding course, simply to improve their road awareness.

That said, I have the misfortune of having to drive a car on occassion. I live in the Okanagan valley, which is choc-a-bloc with Harley riders, some with loud pipes.

I have never heard an approaching loud-pipe Harley in time for it to make any difference whatsoever in my driving.

Pipes make lots of noise backward. The traffic that one worries about is ahead.

In short, winks, you are wholly mistaken about the efficacy of your loud pipes, pissing off hundreds of people who have the ability to vote your lousy ass off the street, and wrecking the sport for the rest of us.

FOAD. You are not a motocyclist's friend.
posted by five fresh fish at 11:01 AM on March 12, 2007


and kableh and winks and fff and every other motorcyclist... yes I agree cagers hate us and want to kill us, if not through malice, then through negligence.

But, I just think that having our bikes legislated into being quieter than bicycles is not going to be helpful.

Middle ground, as kableh says.

They are all, universally and perpetually, retarded blind assholes who'll kill us in a heartbeat. Every g.d. one of them needs to take a motorcycle riding course, simply to improve their road awareness.

Amen.

And winks I know I came off harsh, but seriously man, the flamethrower is simply out of bounds on all but a show bike. If you claim to profess any love or respect for motorcycling, you owe a duty to be a responsible member of the community.
posted by Ynoxas at 11:09 AM on March 12, 2007


"Wow, a lot of hate for Harleys out there in mefi land. I consider them a great economy vehicle"

I don't read it as Harley hate. I read it as "People with ridiculously loud pipes are asshats." I think Harleys are decent bikes, but the turkeys with the louder-than-god tailpipes rolling by for the sole purpose of making a ton of noise are just irritating.
posted by drstein at 11:10 AM on March 12, 2007


She's not a show-bike yet. The flames are just for looks, so far. Sociopath, huh? What about the guy laying on the horn? BTW, LouisiAna, (not L.A. Cali.) You guys have different laws regarding noise and pollution.
I support ABATE, I wear a helmet and do a couple of poker runds every year for charity.
Maybe I came off as an ass becuase, I think that loud pipes are being unfairly targeted. There are so many more offending noises out there, city buses (loud and polluting), construction eq., dogs, ricers and Stang owers. Yet becuase I like my bike loud and try to justify it with a saftey concern, I'm the bad guy.
For the record, my 1100 is nowhere near as loud a a BIG DOG. They detonate whe they first fire up and there is a loud explosion as it starts.

I still don't take to kindly to peeps forcing their antiquated view on us younger folk. You guiys soundlike my parents, or worse, their parents.

Maybe it's a generational thing. I guess I should get off your lawn too?

I did not sign up to be a motorcyclists friend. Who the fuck wrote that mission statement. I ride because I love to ride. If you don't like how I ride, that's o.k. too.
posted by winks007 at 11:41 AM on March 12, 2007


Ynoxas: So you're the guy they put in charge of motorcycle respect and love. I knew I shoulda applied for that job.
Who says I'm not responsible? That's quite a leap.
Harsh, I can handle, a judgemetal jerk, I prolly won't be able to hear because of my LOUD pipes.
posted by winks007 at 11:49 AM on March 12, 2007


kableh writes "Eh, study or not, I have plenty of anecdotal evidence, both personal and from friends, that loud pipes get other drivers to notice you."

You've got to control for selective observation: are the people noticing the same set as those driving like zombies? Drive a heavy truck for a while and it'll seem like every biker is bound and determined to put themselves under your wheels. That's because you only notice the foolishly aggressive or the dumb asses like those who'll squeeze between you and the curb when you're making a wide right turn. The guys riding defensively don't register.

five fresh fish writes "Pipes make lots of noise backward. The traffic that one worries about is ahead."

Ya, if it was really about the safety everyone would be pointing their pipes forward, air horn style. Of course most of the straight pipe guys are also "we don't need no cats" types so all those unburned hydrocarbons and CO would poison them in short order.

winks007 writes "There are so many more offending noises out there, city buses (loud and polluting), construction eq., dogs, ricers and Stang owers. Yet becuase I like my bike loud and try to justify it with a saftey concern, I'm the bad guy. "

Your hardly a persecuted minority, people complain about those source all the time. Geez in Alberta in order to harrass the ricers they've made it illegal to put a muffler tip on a muffler that's larger than stock or otherwise modify the outlet of a muffler. Swapping a 4" muffler in for a 2" stock is a-ok though because SUV owners love their cat backs and those guys vote.
posted by Mitheral at 12:45 PM on March 12, 2007


I still don't take to kindly to peeps forcing their antiquated view on us younger folk.

Peeps don't take kindly to asshats forcing 120dB window-rattling exhausts into their lives.

What you are doing affects all motorcyclists. The public does not distinguish us as individuals.
posted by five fresh fish at 12:54 PM on March 12, 2007


Flames? Jesus, exactly how small is your wanker?
posted by maxwelton at 1:07 PM on March 12, 2007


I curse at transit buses.

I agree they can be unpleasantly loud, but at least that's partly because they are moving a huge hulk of metal and 70 people, not because they are a noise toy. Perhaps they could be designed to be quieter too, but that's really under the radar when we have a bunch of jerks proclaiming their right to boom, rattle and howl for the fun of it, even if it hurts others.

once you realise the writer is over the top indignant the commentary is kind of funny.

The commentary is a bit ridiculous, I agree. People get like that when they are frazzled from noise, though. It's hardly effective when written that way. Yeah, sex sells, so what.

Listener didn't link to a report calling out ricer mufflers.

No, but I could have. It's the same thing. The unnecessary noise is bad, not which vehicle it comes from.

99.9% of shops will install louder than stock mufflers

Yeah, when the woo-woo whistle youtube link was originally posted here, months back, I posted about the general modified mufflers, which are illegal according to highway laws but are not routinely enforced

I can barely hear you ninnies whining.

Perhaps you're deaf. And you didn't read the links, ie you don't care what anyone else might say. And you are the "ninny" for proudly hurting people with your noise. People have different levels of sensitivity. For example, my work involves listening to audio all day, so I am highly attuned to sound and I also need a really good break from it, like no more violence from your kind.

about how loud music is supposedly tied exclusively to Hip-Hop culture makes me laugh

It often is, but you are right. I should have included the links of people who are beaten within an inch of their life for asking people to turn down. It does tend to be associated with the "I'm a gangsta" crowd.

PeterMcDermott posted the best link ever, and i think nobody noticed

They probably saw it the first time it was posted here.

Haha, next time I approach a bike with loud pipes, I'm gonna lean on the horn for as long as I'm in his presence -- just so he knows I'm there, naturally. Safety first! I hope it's a long redlight

"What if everybody did?"

loud pipes get other drivers to notice you. . . dangerous out there

It's dangerous riding a bicycle, too. I rode one a lot, but then they can be hard to see when you are not expecting one. The traffic flow and driving rules need to be changed and designed to enhance awareness small vehicles.

Remember when you do decide to lean on your horn, you are doing to others what you do not like done to you. I guess since you weren't first, it's o.k.?

But the point is they're saying it's okay. The noise is not okay. There is too much noise.

E.G. Why do small planes that fly low have NO mufflers? That's insane.

If it's too loud, you're too old.

People get old. I have always hated noise. You know, one of those people that wore earplugs to rock concerts after I got ringing the first time and saw that this was going to destroy my hearing? Ageist is just lame.

There are moves afoot that would make many STOCK mufflers too loud.

By flagrantly abusing those around you with your purposefully unreasonable sound levels, all you are likely to accomplish is to help get laws passed that make our bikes even more restricted performance wise.


Yeah, I had a great link about that, but I can't find it.

There are so many more offending noises out there, city buses (loud and polluting), construction eq., dogs, ricers and Stang owers.

Yeah, many of which were also mentioned in the links. I mean the mc wasn't even the first one. Please consider it an oversight that I didn't find a car muffler link. It's really not about motorcycles for me. It's about noise. I used to ride a motorcycle, too, because it was cheap atransportation.

Maybe it's a generational thing. I guess I should get off your lawn too?

Oh please that's just lame. Yes, you should stay off people's private property, if you needed to be told that and you probably did.

My feelings about noise have not changed since childhood. People are just different in their physical responses.
posted by Listener at 1:11 PM on March 12, 2007


Who says I'm not responsible? That's quite a leap.

Actually, no it's not. You may be a good guy, you may be a competent rider, but by installing a flamethrower on the back of your bike to "blister the paint on your Honda bumper"... I can pretty much assure you are not responsible.

You're in love with the "motorcycle outlaw" image, that much is clear.

I can't say I understand why you support ABATE and wear a helmet. But I guess maybe there are some gun control advocates that support the NRA. Whatever works in your worldview I guess. I've walked away from a charity ride before because ABATE was involved.

So you're the guy they put in charge of motorcycle respect and love.

I am just another motorcyclist like you. Except that I have a respect for my activity of choice, and I don't have to force the rest of society to unwillingly bear the brunt of my 125db pipes and 6 foot flames. Somehow, I'm able to do what I love, and yet still function in society and not shatter the social contract wherever I go.

See, that's what you don't get. Noone else gets to "choose" whether or not to hear your loud-ass pipes at a stoplight. You enforce your will on others, whilst all the while decrying any attempt to enforce any will on you.

So yeah, get off of my lawn and all that. You're an individual, you don't play by the rules. We get it.
posted by Ynoxas at 1:23 PM on March 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


peeedro, you ask for a link to one of the studies. That's why I linked to a summary of the 400-page traffic study, the Hurt Report AKA "Motorcycle Accident Cause Factors and Identification of Countermeasures" from California. It's old, but is frequently cited in my reading.
posted by Listener at 1:31 PM on March 12, 2007


"People get old."

I'm pretty sure the goal of almost everyone here is to be an old person some day.
posted by Mitheral at 1:52 PM on March 12, 2007


The helmet, I don't have a choice. It's the LAW!

Abate, because it seemed like a pretty good place to spend 35.00. ( I've spent more than that on things far worse.)

I don't have a Honda Bumper, that was a knee jerk reaction to a reply.

I have never "torched" anyone's bumper. Never had to, I've never had some asshole in a car honk his horn the entire time that I was sitting at a stoplight.

You should see the flames when I hit the button. EVERYONE loves it. It does it's job of just "looking cool!"

Motorcycle "Outlaw", please, I'm not a biker, I'm a guy who rides a bike. I have no leather nor any "colors".

Maybe I don't get the whole "respect for my activity".
I just do it for the funofit.

I guess I don't respect the activity of grasscutting because, my riding mower has flames on it and an aftermaket exhaust, huh? OH NO, there goes the sanctity of lawn-care everywhere.

I can tell some of you noise critics are p-e-r-f-e-c-t. Must be hard to maintain that high standard of living. You have never done anything outlandish for fear of bothering other people, right?

Your neighbors have no complaints, you've never modded your car or motorcycle. You would never dare to flip the intake cover over to make your 1st car a bit louder. Never bought a glasspak or cherry-bomb. Never held a loud party? If you did, you possibly shut down the 1st time the cops came right, cause you have so much respect for YOUR Activity? You go through life with regards to some invisible social contract not ever ruffling a feather. You probably roll your bike out to the street as to not disturb your neighbors too? I take it you have no amps or subs in your car. And no big amp at home hooked to your guitar, cause dat wood bodder udder peepl.

Get the fuck off of your high-horse. From what I can tell, 120DB only really rattles glass houses.

Loud-n-proud and loving it.
posted by winks007 at 1:55 PM on March 12, 2007


You wanna hate a sound, hows about every kid that gets a Mustang, runs out and gets the cheapest (read: loudest) single chamber flow-masters he can afford and proceedes to really load up the clutch at every take-off? What about THAT GUY?

Well, I guess you think he's cool winks007.
posted by Listener at 2:34 PM on March 12, 2007


You are the consumate asshole: no care for how your activities affect others' lives.

Fuck. You.
posted by five fresh fish at 2:35 PM on March 12, 2007


FFF, fuck you back and harder. I have way fewer "intrusive" habits than most people. Once again, the constant whinning is kiling me. You sound like a real fucking treat to live next door to.
posted by winks007 at 3:00 PM on March 12, 2007


You do not have "way fewer" intrusive habits.

Your inability to comprehend how your behaviours affect others is only one of your many flaws. That you think you could possibly fuck me back and harder is another.

I sincerely hope you lose your motorcycle license. We will all be better off without you on the streets.
posted by five fresh fish at 3:16 PM on March 12, 2007


I can live with losing my licence. Riding is a little hobbie of mine. But you, what an asshole? Thanks for the wonderful insight as to my "flaws." That means so much to me coming from you.

It's wining, pissing and moaning. That must be your thing.

I lose can lose my license and earn it back - you'll still be an asshole.
posted by winks007 at 4:14 PM on March 12, 2007


Listener, a brief apology. I hadn't finished all of the links before commenting. I feel for your and hearing problem. I never meant to insult. I was only defending the loud noise of my m/c. Which some here disagree with. As you can imagine, I didn't put loud pipes on my bike to hurt your ears or anyone elses ears for that matter. As a matter of fact I was only thinking about me and my motorcycle when I strapped them on. I HOPED other would hear me, if not, see me. So I made a purchase and subsequent installation of aftermarket pipes, removed the baffles and liked them that way. I also put bright lights on front and rear, great, now the light-sensitive crowd will start gathering their stones. Some people really need to lighten up, so to speak.
Anyone who cannot tolerate a little loud noise every now and then without becoming an asshole and laying on the horn, makes me question his/her motives. Like if this asshole is willing to do that, what would he do to me if he had the chance. I smell ROADRAGE.
FFF, you think the exhaust noise on the bike is bad, you should hear my shop stereo and my home surround sound, and my car, 2 amps and a sub. Jerk
posted by winks007 at 4:28 PM on March 12, 2007


You win, winks. You've got more decibels than I do. Boy, howdy, that does done show me!
posted by five fresh fish at 5:23 PM on March 12, 2007


As a motorcyclist, I have to say that I would be a pretty poor rider if I were depending on loud pipes to protect me from cagers instead of my riding skills.
posted by jwest at 5:58 PM on March 12, 2007


I feel for your and hearing problem.

I have no hearing problem. My hearing is exceptional. My problem is with excessive noise of various kinds. Other people are bothered for different reasons. I used to know a guy with bad tinnitus. That's where I learned that noise bothers people who may be classified as "deaf." I also had students with apparently learning difficulties in my ESL class. They were unable to cope with ordinary levels of chatter. I see that people are different. And we, young, old or whatever, should have the right to some kind of peace.

You can ride your bike safely without noise. I did. Cars dominate the road and when you're a two-wheeler, you have to be more diligent, and you have to drive knowing they are not as maneuverable as you and your maneuvers may be unexpected, though natural to you. And we (I cycle a lot, despite owning a motor vehicle also) need to educate the drivers, not blast and rattle them.
posted by Listener at 8:35 PM on March 12, 2007


Heh.. I leave a thread for a couple days and look what happens! I'll start out easy:

kableh: Sludge, if you're a (full time) cager you just don't get it. A near miss or two and you'd change your tune, I bet.

Yep, full-time "cager" here. (Does a convertible make me a "half-cager"?) I would love a sportbike, actually, just for the cheap performance, but the risk/reward ratio is too high for me -- and I race cars, rock-climb, kayak, snowboard, etc., so I'm not patently risk-averse or anything. It's all about risk vs. reward.

I drive a small sports car myself (that's as close as I would let myself get to a bike), and I drive paranoid: check intersections even on green lights, hover the brake pedal, etc. Although I'll grant that the risk of bodily harm is greater for bikers than for me, as I do have some level of protection, I definitely understand the surrounded-by-idiots mindset and practice it every day. Knocking wood, although I've had plenty of close calls, I've never once had a wreck on the street while I was driving.

(Recycled) Thought exercise: Do you think that locking my horn in the on position or running a siren full-time is a good way to make myself safer? Why or why not? winks007 seems to think it's a bad idea because "it's a nuisance", yet he inexplicably can't make the connection to his own noise problem.

Speaking of which...

winks007: Govenor Foster removed the helmet law and one of the first thing Blanco did after taking office was put that law back into enforcement.

But you're a Big Safety Guy, so you support helmet laws, right? Or is it your (laughable) contention that you're safer *without* a helmet? Meh, but this is off-topic -- why not make a FPP so we can all talk about it? (You don't mind being laughed at, do you?)

FWIW, I oppose helmet laws for adults. If somebody wants to risk cracking their skull for the benefit of feeling the wind in their hair, that's up to them. It's your life; it's your death. Send me a postcard from the ICU.

I can also throw a 8'-10' propane flame out of my Vance and Hines exhaust with the push of a button. Ever see the paint on your Honda bumper cover blister? Not a pretty sight. Also, your horn unfortunatley, is yours to blow.

Ahahaha, that's hilarious!!!! I realize you've retracted this, but you have to know that if you actually did this to me, I would certainly ram you. Seems a reasonable defense against a flamethrower attack, no? (Anybody with a gun handy would likely shoot you dead on the spot -- and I think the judge would let 'em walk, too, if that's what it took to shut down your flamethrower.)

Remember when you do decide to lean on your horn, you are doing to others what you do not like done to you. I guess since you weren't first, it's o.k.?

Initiation of force is the problem. If you smack me without provocation, don't whine like a pussy when I smack you back. Are you really this dense? Yes, a horn is damn annoying. It's nearly one tenth as loud as your bike (which is really, REALLY annoying).

Except, well, my horn is facing forward -- you know, towards the traffic you allegedly are trying to warn of your presence. Speaking of which, somebody suggested turning your tailpipes forward to alert oncoming traffic. Have you completed this mod yet? You Big Safety Guy, you...

If you aggravate a tatooed, shaved head, motorcyclist that really enjoys his hi-perfomance machine, you are taking your own safety for granted

Oh noez, not teh tatooz!!!! (Internet-tough-guy-by-proxy -- that's a new one! Your dad gonna come talk to me next??)

and there is nothing you can do if I decide to roll right up next to you at the very next light and rev it like a college kid in a Honda.

Nah, there's plenty that a motivated individual can do, ranging from a quick phone call to the cops to a tire-iron to your skull, depending on their state of mind, level of annoyance, and propensity for violence. The good news is, that helmet might come in handy after all!

I'm quite certain that my loud exhaust pipes do not hinder your ability to hear traffic around you.

Wrong. With a loud bike next to me, I can't hear shit. Not that you care, asshole.

Do you feel the same way about trains, planes?

Ummm... you haven't thought this through, have you?

You know the saying: If it's too loud, you're too old.

No, I think the saying is: "If it's too loud, you need to shut the fuck up, asshole."

...I never really though of it that way. I consider an always ON horn to be a nuisance

Most people consider your intentionally loud bike to be a "nuisance" and egregious sound pollution. Do you really not get this?? If I stand next to you and blast an air horn in your ear for 10-20 seconds per day, would that help you understand? What will it take for you to comprehend that people don't like unsolicited, painfully loud noise?

She's not a show-bike yet. The flames are just for looks, so far. Sociopath, huh? What about the guy laying on the horn?

Heh, because blowing a flamethrower at somebody and somebody blowing their horn at you are pretty much the same thing, huh? You're fitting the profile of a "sociopath" pretty well here, I'd say.

BTW, LouisiAna, (not L.A. Cali.) You guys have different laws regarding noise and pollution.
I support ABATE, I wear a helmet and do a couple of poker runds every year for charity.


That's great! (Seriously, I'm ever-so-slightly proud of you!) Now could you ride a reasonably muffled bike, too?

Maybe I came off as an ass becuase, I think that loud pipes are being unfairly targeted. There are so many more offending noises out there, city buses (loud and polluting), construction eq., dogs, ricers and Stang owers.

Oh, good Lord. You're actually drawing a false equivalence between an unmuffled bike and modded (still muffled) street car. There's a huge difference between a deafening 120db bike with removed baffles and an annoying 100db Honda with a fart pipe. Hell, I just got back from a weekend at the race track, and (from your description) not one of those full out race cars was as loud as your bike. (Sound control limits us to 103db. Your bike would not pass tech.)

I should say: Being a gearhead, I love a healthy engine, whether on a car, bike, boat, or whatever. Mechanical music stirs my blood. It's the sheer VOLUME of intentionally-loud street bikes that I (and others) object to. Got it?

FYI, a normally aspirated engine *needs* some exhaust back-pressure to help scavange exhaust gases. You're actually costing yourself horsepower by having an exhaust that's too free-flowing (and loud). Just understand that your exhaust system is not about performance; it's about generating volume.

(Psst, wanna double your horsepower and quiet down your exhaust? Strap a turbo on that beast! Just be sure to videotape your final few seconds -- YouTube needs more snuff films.)


Yet becuase I like my bike loud and try to justify it with a saftey concern, I'm the bad guy.

Finally. FINALLY you step out from behind your pussy facade of "Safety first!" Just once, you've slipped up and told the truth: You just like your bike loud. The safety justification is a bullshit afterthought.

Look, we GET it. It's not about safety. You like your bike loud, because it's all about "representin" your ride. You enjoy rattling the "cagers", setting off car alarms, etc. Loud pipes make you about as safe as boomin subwoofers make hip-hop (and country?) fans. They serve the same purpose: Attention-whoring. Representin'.

Admit it: You like the attention and think it makes you more of a man. Stop lying to yourself, and stop lying to us: it's not about safety, it's about getting attention. It's clear from your posts that you take pleasure in annoying other people. You're an attention whore asshole, not a safety magnate.

You should see the flames when I hit the button. EVERYONE loves it. It does it's job of just "looking cool!"

Yeah, and it keeps you safe by making you highly visible, right?? Attention whore. You're the center of attention, alright: People are laughing at you.

(Fucking *flamethrowers*, haha, that's great...! You can't make this stuff up! I gotta go tell my friends...)

For the record, my 1100 is nowhere near as loud a a BIG DOG. They detonate whe they first fire up and there is a loud explosion as it starts.

So do us all a favor and tell him to stick a cork in it. Also, your own bike is still TOO FUCKING LOUD.

I still don't take to kindly to peeps forcing their antiquated view on us younger folk. You guiys soundlike my parents, or worse, their parents.

Maybe it's a generational thing. I guess I should get off your lawn too?


I don't take kindly to people assaulting me with deafening noise. Would it bother you if I intentionally blew smoke in your face? If you whined about it, I'd be all: "Don't force your views on me, pops!!"

BTW, at this point, I'm not sure whether I'm a kid with a Honda (and a melted bumper, hahaha) or an old fart in a rocking chair. Can you clarify?

I should say, though, that I am enjoying watching you thrash about, hurling insults, and contradicting yourself at every turn. You don't have a leg to stand on, and it's pretty entertaining, so thanks for that! Just keep your insults straight, m'kayyy?

I did not sign up to be a motorcyclists friend. Who the fuck wrote that mission statement. I ride because I love to ride. If you don't like how I ride, that's o.k. too.

Translation: You're an asshole.

I can tell some of you noise critics are p-e-r-f-e-c-t. Must be hard to maintain that high standard of living. You have never done anything outlandish for fear of bothering other people, right?

I do plenty of outlandish things. But I don't get off on intentionally annoying or harming other people who have done nothing to me. (Because I'm not an asshole like you.)

Your neighbors have no complaints, you've never modded your car or motorcycle. You would never dare to flip the intake cover over to make your 1st car a bit louder. Never bought a glasspak or cherry-bomb.

Plenty of mods. I've more than doubled it's horsepower (turbo) and fitted a suspension that makes it outhandle many supercars. Modding for excessive noise is not on the menu, however. Heck, I could gain another 10hp by running a test pipe, but it's too damn loud -- and by "damn loud" I mean 100db or so.

Your bike is way off the charts into the realm of "asinine". I actually chuckle when choads like you rumble past. You're gonna be deaf by the time you're 40, entirely by their own making. Karma's a bitch!

Never held a loud party? If you did, you possibly shut down the 1st time the cops came right, cause you have so much respect for YOUR Activity?

Sure, I try to respect my neighbors. Don't you? I've had plenty of crazy parties; never once had the cops called on me. (It helps to invite your neighbors!) But if I'm at a friend's house and somebody felt the need to call the cops, of course we shut down. Isn't that just basic human courtesy?

You go through life with regards to some invisible social contract not ever ruffling a feather.

Eh, I'm not an asshole. (see above)

You probably roll your bike out to the street as to not disturb your neighbors too?

This wouldn't be an issue. I wouldn't intentionally modify my bike for the purpose of making it loud. Not being a poser like you, I value performance over appearance.

I take it you have no amps or subs in your car.

I don't listen to the radio as I feel it distracts me from the task of driving. (Yeah, really.) I can't imagine riding a bike where you can't hear a damn thing over your own exhaust.

And no big amp at home hooked to your guitar, cause dat wood bodder udder peepl.

A little practice amp, thanks for asking. And, yeah, blasting my guitar at 2am because I enjoy shaking up the neighbors would make me... (wait for it) ...an asshole.

Like you.

Get the fuck off of your high-horse.

Stop being an asshole.

From what I can tell, 120DB only really rattles glass houses.

And deliberately annoys other motorists. And causes noise pollution. And is a safety hazard. And sets off alarms (more noise pollution). And gives people headaches. But, hey, at least it gives you hearing damage.

Loud-n-proud and loving it.

You're an asshole and you're proud of it.

Think about that.
posted by LordSludge at 11:11 AM on March 14, 2007


::lights cigarette::
posted by LordSludge at 11:28 AM on March 14, 2007


Good god, man, it was exhausting just to watch you fuck him so long and hard. You deserve that cigarette!
posted by five fresh fish at 7:35 PM on March 14, 2007


Hey everyone, Lordsludge has me pegged. I hate it when people get the best of me.

For the record:

I never said I was a big safety guy. When I put the pipes and made the modifications...I THOUGHT, holy shit this is loud... maybe they will hear me if not SEE me. (Now there's a chance for me to use ASKMEFI.) Then I can have every asshole like you telling me what YOU and the public in general, don't like. That'll never happen, jerk-off!


I wear a helmet because it's the law. I would also welcome the opportunity to elect NOT wear one if I so desire. Not that I EVER go helmet-less. I got to make it home, remember?

I'm 40 already. Years of enduring loud music, gun ranges, motorcycle/cars(I practically grew up at Laplace Raceways in the late 60's and early 70's, with Ray Candies, Big Daddy) and the occasional assshole on their horn yet, I can still hear exceptionally well. You must be some new-age seer, huh?

As for the interent by tough guy proxy statement - How many bikers have you fucked with lately? I'll bet they tremble when they see you in your little convertible. That's the ones they warned us about during The Motorcycle Safety course, those wicked convertible guys. Ha-fuckin-ha.

Nah, there's plenty that a motivated individual can do, ranging from a quick phone call to the cops to a tire-iron to your skull, depending on their state of mind, level of annoyance, and propensity for violence. The good news is, that helmet might come in handy after all!
Really, now who's the sociopath? What a dick you are. Check my other posts, I'M ALWAYS ARMED, I have my pistol on my tank in a magnetic Joe Rocket stingray case. Easy access, dumbass. Oh, at the range, I don’t practice aim and shoot, I practice quick draw from the rear waistline and the hip.

Go ahead blow smoke in my face, I'll most likely punch you in the throat. And I smoke. You fucking prick. That's not a nuisance, that's a direct act of aggression. Big difference

That's great! (Seriously, I'm ever-so-slightly proud of you!) Now could you ride a reasonably muffled bike, too?
You should have heard it when I first brought it home. It had homemade, galvanized exhaust pipes. Facing out the fucking side I swear, I made a vast improvement with the addition of the pipes.


I have no idea how loud my exhaust is, (as it was someone else
who mentioned the 120dB.) Not going to check either. Go figure.

I haven't the energy or time to keep defending my shaky position on my LOUD exhaust. With that in mind...I'm an asshole. Thanks, the wife and kids disagree. My boss disagrees. My neighbors disagree. 999 people at the Pit Stop during Bike Night last Wednesday disagreed with you and FFF. Fuck you very much.

You must live next door to FFF or should, as you guys are, (probably old?) anal retentive, cranky fuckers

And you're right…I don't have a leg to stand on. I never came here looking for one! Someone makes a post. I make a comment that I consider relevant and you and a couple of others have a problem with it. Fuck it. I'm not all that broken up over yours, or anyone else’s opinion for that matter.

I didn't join MF for the "constant approval of other assholes" aspect of it all. I am here because it's very entertaining. The posts are pretty good sometimes too.

I guess we could go on, but, what's the use? We don't/won't/can't see eye to eye on this subject and that's o.k. too.

Like my therapist said, "I'm an asshole and you're and asshole." He was right after all.

Have a nice day. I’m going home to fire that mutha up.

Me thinks it was clear from the start. I had a somewhat stock bike added a few parts, removed a few bragged it up a bit and bingo, I managed to get on your last nerve. Tough shit! I'm glad you don't like it. I didn't buy it for you, nor was I even anywhere close to even thinking about YOU during my decision making process to purchase said motorcycle. You fuck!

Man, I love this place. I really do. G’day all.
posted by winks007 at 11:11 AM on March 15, 2007


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